Author Topic: Osama Bin Laden - Conspiracies, staged, caught then shot  (Read 24041 times)

Coach is Back!

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Osama Bin Laden - Conspiracies, staged, caught then shot
« on: May 03, 2011, 08:47:48 AM »
Years of intelligence gathering, including details gleaned from controversial interrogations of Al Qaeda members during the Bush administration, ultimately led the Navy SEALs who killed Usama bin Laden to his compound in Pakistan.

The initial threads of intelligence began surfacing in 2003 and came in the form of information about a trusted bin Laden courier, a senior U.S. official told Fox News on condition of anonymity. Bin Laden had cut off all traditional lines of communication with his network by this time because the Al Qaeda leader knew the U.S. intelligence community was monitoring him. It was said that he also didn't even trust his most loyal men to know his whereabouts and instead communicated only through couriers.

But it was four years later, in 2007, that terror suspects at the Guantanamo Bay military prison started giving up information about the key courier.

Around this time, the use of enhanced interrogation tactics, including waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning, were being denounced as torture by critics of the Bush administration. President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney came under intense pressure for supporting rough treatment of prisoners. Critics claimed that any information given under duress simply couldn't be trusted.

It is an argument that Bush and Cheney strongly rejected then, and now.

"I would assume that the enhanced interrogation program that we put in place produced some of the results that led to bin Laden's ultimate capture," Cheney told Fox News on Monday, a hint of vindication in his voice.

The White House on Tuesday sought to downplay the role that Bush-era interrogations played in gathering the information that led to bin Laden's death.

"Some of it came from individuals who were in custody. Some of it came from human sources," counterterrorism adviser John Brennan told Fox News. "But there was no single bit of information that was instrumental."

Brennan acknowledged that "those in detention" provided key information, but stressed that it was obtained in a variety of different ways.

"Sometimes they gave us information willingly," Brennan said, adding that sometimes they gave misinformation and sometimes they inadvertently spilled clues that unlocked other intelligence.

"This was a painstaking ... body of work that was done that was over the course of many, many years," he said.

Former Bush administration officials, as well as Republican lawmakers, have given President Obama and his national security team great credit for the daring operation Sunday that ended with bin Laden being shot to death by a CIA-led Navy SEALs team. But they also point to indications that the controversial interrogation program and information gleaned from detainees at Guantanamo Bay and at secret overseas prisons may have played a key role, in claiming Bush-era policies helped set the stage for Sunday's success.

"This really does stretch over two presidencies," former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told Fox News on Tuesday. "There's a long train here, and it leads back, I think, to good counterterrorism policies that were put in place in 2001."

Information was given up by prisoners, including 9/11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. U.S. officials described the courier as a talented protege and trusted associate of both Mohammed and Al Qaeda's No. 3 leader at the time, Abu Faraj al Libi. Both men were held at Guantanamo Bay.

U.S. officials were told the courier's name was known only to bin Laden's innermost circle.
By 2009, the U.S. intelligence community had a rough idea of where the courier operated: a region north of Islamabad, Pakistan. It was another year before this compound was identified in August 2010 as a likely home for a senior Al Qaeda member.

The compound was eight times the size of other homes in the affluent neighborhood, and the impressive 18-foot-high walls with barbed wire drew scrutiny from intelligence analysts.

By early this year, information from multiple intelligence sources, including the now-shuttered harsh interrogation program, as well as CIA operatives and Special Operations Forces on the ground in Afghanistan and Pakistan, were building a clearer case that the compound might house bin Laden. Officials found out that there were three families living there. In addition, a significantly older man, who was shown deference by the group, was not required to work on the compound.

Critics of the Bush-era interrogation programs have suggested that the harsh interrogations were not essential to tracking bin Laden and that the information could have been obtained by more humane means. But for Cheney and other Bush administration alumni, Sunday's raid stands as proof their system worked.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/02/bush-era-interrogations-provided-key-details-bin-ladens-location/#ixzz1LIxTLtou

io856

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"their system"

Oh really?   ::)

Juruth

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0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 11:41:00 AM »
Negotiator's from the U.S., Israel, The Rothschilds, and China sat down with Bin Laden and hammered out a deal with a significant amount of cash and bonds being transferred into Bin Laden's offshore accounts.  The assassination/burial at sea front story was lifted from a Hollywood screenplay written by a Don Leonard.  Bin Laden will wind up in either the Swiss Alps or Brazil.

Tito24

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 11:44:29 AM »
i already thought something like that

bradistani

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 11:44:58 AM »
i'm sure bin laden would fit right in, not looking out of place at all in the swiss alps. especially with that bullet in his eye  ;D


chunkramwell

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 11:47:49 AM »
Negotiator's from the U.S., Israel, The Rothschilds, and China sat down with Bin Laden and hammered out a deal with a significant amount of cash and bonds being transferred into Bin Laden's offshore accounts.  The assassination/burial at sea front story was lifted from a Hollywood screenplay written by a Don Leonard.  Bin Laden will wind up in either the Swiss Alps or Brazil.

You mean they left out the Grays and the Bavarian Illuminati? Foolishness! We're all doomed!

Juruth

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 11:49:09 AM »
You can swallow all the news the Rithschilds feed you but mark my words, Bin Laden isn't dead, and he doesn't need to "fit in" anywhere.  Does it really take 40 minutes for forty men to shoot three humans and one female? 

Juruth

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 11:51:00 AM »
Where thr Rothschilds are so go the Reptilians.  The Grays are the grunts of outer space.

bradistani

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 11:51:01 AM »

chunkramwell

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 12:49:53 PM »
I heard he was being held in the Nazi base in Antarctica. Maybe we need the Tall Blonde aliens to sort this all out.

Schmoff

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 12:53:41 PM »
was branch at the meeting?

 :D

The Ugly

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 12:54:03 PM »
You can swallow all the news the Rithschilds feed you but mark my words, Bin Laden isn't dead,  

Consider your words marked, friend, and I will be the first to congratulate you when TMZ catches him snowboarding in Switzerland.

Dr Dutch

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2011, 01:03:01 PM »
He moved in with Elvis

Heywood

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Re: 0sama Bin Laden Not Dead!
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 01:06:29 PM »
we still have the body, right?

Don't nobody watch Perry Mason?


LATS

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  yes.. i wonder how obama will answer that question since he said that he would not allow torture.. in this case it gave him bin laden..

George Whorewell

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 ::)

Racist thread reported.

Benny B

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LOL @ "The Coach" & FOX "News"  ::) Hopelessly stuck on stupid.


Senate Intel Chair: Torture Did Not Lead To Bin Laden In Any Way
Brian Beutler | May 3, 2011


More and more evidence suggests a key piece of intelligence -- the first link in the chain of information that led U.S. intelligence officials to Osama bin Laden -- wasn't tortured out of its source. And, indeed, that torture actually failed to produce it.

"To the best of our knowledge, based on a look, none of it came as a result of harsh interrogation practices," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee in a wide-ranging press conference.

Moreover, Feinstein added, nothing about the sequence of events that culminated in Sunday's raid vindicates the Bush-era techniques, nor their use of black sites -- secret prisons, operated by the CIA.

"Absolutely not, I do not," Feinstein said. "I happen to know a good deal about how those interrogations were conducted, and in my view nothing justifies the kind of procedures that were used."

This is a mix of fresh, on-the-record information and push back against Republicans -- many of them former Bush administration officials -- who are tying themselves in knots to claim that Bush's interrogation policies got the ball rolling on the bin Laden killing.


"I would assume that the enhanced interrogation program that we put in place produced some of the results that led to bin Laden's ultimate capture," said former Vice President Dick Cheney on Fox News.

Here's Rep. Peter King (R-NY), chair of the House Homeland Security Committee, also on Fox: "We obtained that information through waterboarding. So for those who say that waterboarding doesn't work, who say it should be stopped and never used again, we got vital information which directly led us to bin Laden."

However, multiple reports preceding Feinstein's remarks suggest that waterboarding failed to produce the key piece of information -- bin Laden's courier's nom de guerre.

Feinstein went even further, claiming that change to U.S. intelligence processes ushered in by the Obama administration were seminal in capturing bin Laden.

"I think the red-teaming of the intelligence was significant, and they red-teamed and red-teamed and red-teamed. And of course what that means is they looked for reasons why what they had as a piece of intelligence might not be accurate, or might indicate something else," Feinstein said. "And that's a very good process -- it's a solid process -- because it exposes weaknesses in the intelligence.... It didn't happen over the Iraq National Intelligence Estimate."

Feinstein further claimed that the Obama administration's decision to reconstitute the CIA's bin Laden unit -- which the Bush administration shuttered in 2005 -- was a key factor in the mission's ultimate success. "I think it was very crucial," she said. "I mean this has been there for a substantial period of time. People become experienced with the intelligence."

Not all Republicans are claiming that bin Laden's killing vindicates torture. At a Capitol press conference Tuesday afternoon, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) stood apart from his colleagues in the GOP. "This idea we caught bin Laden because of waterboarding I think is a misstatement," he said. "This whole concept of how we caught bin Laden is a lot of work over time by different people and putting the puzzle together. I do not believe this is a time to celebrate waterboarding, I believe this is a time to celebrate hard work."


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Benny B

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Repubes Say Torture Led To bin Laden. Facts Say Otherwise.

You could see this one coming a mile off. Here's Dick Cheney on Fox News: "I would assume the enhanced interrogation program we put in place produced some of the results that led to bin Laden's ultimate capture.... We need to keep in place those policies that made it possible for us to succeed in this case."
Here's an AP story reiterating the same.

    Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.

Or how about the Heritage Foundation screaming "Detainee Interrogations: Key to Killing Osama bin Laden": "This lead was developed during the Bush Administration, most likely from al-Qaeda associates picked up and transferred to Guantanamo and subject to interrogations that critics have repeatedly deemed to be pointless in terms of intelligence value. Whether these detainees remain at Guantanamo is an open question." See, if Bush and Cheney hadn't been man enough to torture people, we never would have found bin Laden. Nine years later.

There's plenty more where that came from:

    * Rep. Steve King (R-IA) tweeted, "Wonder what President Obama thinks of water boarding now?"
    * Karl Rove said on Fox & Friends this morning: "I think the tools that President Bush put into place—GITMO, rendition, enhanced interrogation, the vast effort to collect and collate this information — obviously served his successor quite well."
    * Bush torture architect John Yoo says "Without the tough decisions taken by President Bush and his national security team, the United States could not have found and killed bin Laden. It is the continuity of policies in the war on terror that has brought success, not the misguided effort of the last two years to disavow them."

Let's revisit history, again, by going to the best source, Marcy Wheeler at emptywheel.The waterboarding of KSM, all 183 instances, occurred in March, 2003. The torture of al Libi happened in early 2002, after his November, 2001 capture.

As Marcy explained in an e-mail:

    Assuming they got the courier's name in 2005 or 2006, per reports, it happened 2 years or more after KSM's waterboarding.

    Which would say KSM withheld this information under waterboarding.

    And given how much time it took to actually get from the courier to the compound (presumably about 4 years), both KSM and al-Libi didn't give all that much on the courier(s).

KSML was waterboarded 183 times, presumably without revealing the name of the courier. And, since it took 183 tries, the efficacy of the whole enterprise can only be questioned. [Update: The following applies to Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, not to Abu Faraj al-Libi, who is sourced in the AP story. The lesson about the effectiveness of torture remains unchanged, but the timeline for Abu Faraj al-Libi is slightly different. See emptywheel for more on that.] But what the torture of al Libi "revealed" is even more damning for the pro-torturers's case.

    Having slipped off the radar, the government clearly does not want his case revived, not only because it may have to explain what has happened to him, but also because, as a result of the application of "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," al-Libi claimed that Saddam Hussein had offered to train two al-Qaeda operatives in the use of chemical and biological weapons.

    Al-Libi's "confession" led to President Bush declaring, in October 2002, "Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases," and his claims were, notoriously, included in Colin Powell's speech to the UN Security Council on February 5, 2003. The claims were of course, groundless, and were recanted by al-Libi in January 2004, but it took Dan Cloonan, a veteran FBI interrogator, who was resolutely opposed to the use of torture, to explain why they should never have been believed in the first place. Cloonan told Jane Mayer, "It was ridiculous for interrogators to think Libi would have known anything about Iraq... The reason they got bad information is that they beat it out of him. You never get good information from someone that way."

What torture got us, in practical terms, was the Iraq debacle. And the complete and well-deserved debasement of our international standing. And a hell of a lot more anti-American terrorists.
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Coach is Back!

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Seriously, you're throwing quotes out from Fienstein? Hahahahahahahaha. She's so in fucking denial she's delusional. Maybe she should take a history lesson for AT LEAST the last 10 years. Haha

Benny B

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Seriously, you're throwing quotes out from Fienstein? Hahahahahahahaha. She's so in fucking denial she's delusional. Maybe she should take a history lesson for AT LEAST the last 10 years. Haha
Gee...who knows more..."The Coach", or the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee?  ::)
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Benny B

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BOOM!  ;D

Republicans won't give full credit to President Obama for the discovery and death of Osama Bin Laden - so they're giving it to George Bush. Cenk Uygur explains why this is ABSURD.
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Benny B

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Oh yeah, I forgot "The Coach" said that Obama was a pathological "lair."  ;D

During the 2008 Presidential Campaign, Barack Obama said "We will kill Bin Laden" and he was right.



Unlike this moron dummies like "The Coach" elected not once, but twice.  :(
CNN: 2001, President George W. Bush 'Bin Laden, Wanted dead or alive'
Then-President George W. Bush vows to get Osama bin Laden soon after the 9/11 attacks.
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Coach is Back!

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Were not giving him full credit because he doesn't deserve full credit, what part of Feinstien having a political agenda don't you get??

che

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"Never argue with an idiot(Coach). They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." ...

QFT

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You're denying it wasn't Bushs policies that were KEPT in place that helped lead the way to Bin Laden? You're saying this was entirely Obamas plan? You're fucking daffy if that's what you think. Remember dude, it was the left and Obama who wanted to stop the wire taps, water boarding and everything else Bush put into place, hell they even brought it to court because they (liberals) thought it was unconstitutional. Remember that Benny (and Feinstien)?