How come natural bodybuilding doesn't actually work but sounds like it should?

[purenaturalstrength]

600+ kcals seems too much. Such a huge surplus every day will be stored as fat unless you're very active and then you'll just burn off the extra.
Try finding your basic calorie line. If you're below you'll feel depleted and weak. The trick is to go a hair above what's really needed which will keep you strong and !slowly! growing.
Rotate the set x rep scheme.
Cruise from 5x5 - 4x6 - 3x7 - 3x8 every 8 weeks. Of course you need to recalc the weights - tonnage stays the same.
Keep an endurance unit every day of the week - 15-20 min. where you give your body a way to handle higher workloads. If you're not in the mood for "cardio" then just do your barbell training regime from start to finish with an empty bar.
Lack of endurance, or GPP as Louie calls it, can dampen your progress.

yes it is very hard to get it right, i mean i dont want to be an obsessive compulsive douchebag weighing food etc  or is that really required?

cardio every day, that would require me to do it right before or after my workouts on monday, wednesday and friday. is that really advisable after killing your legs with 5x5 squats on monday?

is sticking to the same rep set scheme too long a huge mistake?

[Raymondo]

one meal more of about 600-700calories

routine goes like

MONDAY:
5x5 squat
1x5 bench press
5x5 barbell row
weighted situps

WEDNESDAY:
5x5 light squats or no squats depending on recovery
1x5 deadlift
5x5 military press
3x6-8 weighted pull ups
5x5 standing calf raise
3x8-12 seated calf raise

Friday
1x5 squat
5x5 bench
1x5barbell row
3x6-8 weighted dips
3x5 preacher curls
3x6-8 skull crushers

Looks like an enhanced texas method.

But that's for intermediates.

You've signalled that you're more advanced than that to the points that your gains have stopped.

[dustin]

yes it is very hard to get it right, i mean i dont want to be an obsessive compulsive douchebag weighing food etc  or is that really required?

cardio every day, that would require me to do it right before or after my workouts on monday, wednesday and friday. is that really advisable after killing your legs with 5x5 squats on monday?

is sticking to the same rep set scheme too long a huge mistake?

Just do some light intensity cardio. I like walking on the treadmill at a speed of 3.5 and I jack up the incline hardcore. It gets my legs super pumped up and gets me sweating, but it's not so much that it thrashes my body and kills recovery. It helps recovery big time. You just need to find a balance.

[purenaturalstrength]

Looks like an enhanced texas method.

But that's for intermediates.

You've signalled that you're more advanced than that to the points that your gains have stopped.

I got it from the website that was explaining dual factor pendley or something


it would have 5 weeks of "volume" which is the routine i presented


then it would have 4 weeks or so "deloading and intensification phase" where the volume is reduced and the intensity (weight % of max) is increased


i tried it and lost strength by the day on the "deloading and intensification phase" so i decided to stay on the "volume phase" even tho it's "harder"


see programming here http://stronglifts.com/madcow/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm

[purenaturalstrength]

Just do some light intensity cardio. I like walking on the treadmill at a speed of 3.5 and I jack up the incline hardcore. It gets my legs super pumped up and gets me sweating, but it's not so much that it thrashes my body and kills recovery. It helps recovery big time. You just need to find a balance.

so do you do it after your weights or before?

[Raymondo]

I got it from the website that was explaining dual factor pendley or something


it would have 5 weeks of "volume" which is the routine i presented


then it would have 4 weeks or so "deloading and intensification phase" where the volume is reduced and the intensity (weight % of max) is increased


i tried it and lost strength by the day on the "deloading and intensification phase" so i decided to stay on the "volume phase" even tho it's "harder"

yeah, these are the methods pendley and rippetoe designed.

May I ask what your goal is?

If you're looking to increase your strength., like I said, that programme is for intermediates and it's more likely to overtrain you than anything else. Have a look at rippetore's books, especially Programming Practice, he recommends specific programmes for advanced lifters.

[purenaturalstrength]

yeah, these are the methods pendley and rippetoe designed.

May I ask what your goal is?

If you're looking to increase your strength., like I said, that programme is for intermediates and it's more likely to overtrain you than anything else. Have a look at rippetore's books, especially Programming Practice, he recommends specific programmes for advanced lifters.

Goal is to get big and strong but I absolutely hate the "milos approach" as I call it, the way bodybuilders talk about "it's not about how much you lift but look like you can lift" or "train smart not heavy" or "squeeze the contraction, dont use the power" i absolutely HATE it (even if they are right i dont care really i hate it that much)


that's why I am inclined to powerlifting methodology even tho I care about size as much as about strength


I wouldn't say I'm advanced, my best bench is 5x115kg and best squat ("high bar full depth" without belt or knee sleeves) is 6x160kg

but my bench regresses often

last friday i was struggling with 100-105kg for 5 ....


squat however seems not to regress without reasonable outside factors or excuses squat seems to respond to hard hard training

bench is just wtf man

yes i will look into that programming book because following a fixed template to a T may not be the ultimate way forward

[wes]

Less calories

More exercises  + more reps

Quality clean food except on the weekend

Train fucking hard,don`t just go through the motions

Feel the muscle work....don`t be obsessed with lifting mega- heavy weight

Use intensity techniques such as Super-Sets,Drop-Sets,Rest Pause etc.

Do low intensity cardio for 30 minutes 4 X a week (walk on inclined treadmill at brisk pace)

Train like your life depended on it

Stay leaner

Good luck,but don`t plan on looking like one of the top guys in a national level show or an IFBB pro.

[purenaturalstrength]

Good luck,but don`t plan on looking like one of the top guys in a national level show or an IFBB pro.

All I ever wanted was to look like this Chinese dude in my gym with a 43cm arm at 172cm height super lean great upperbody all together

I was about 14 when I first saw him, now almost 10 years later he's still the same and I'm also still the same 


swears he's natural and only consumes 70 grams of protein a day he said


I guess what I'm saying is I didn't think I had such unreasonable goals trying to look up to a supposed natural in my local gym


but maybe i did 

[wes]

All I ever wanted was to look like this Chinese dude in my gym with a 43cm arm at 172cm height super lean great upperbody all together

I was about 14 when I first saw him, now almost 10 years later he's still the same and I'm also still the same 


swears he's natural and only consumes 70 grams of protein a day he said


I guess what I'm saying is I didn't think I had such unreasonable goals trying to look up to a supposed natural in my local gym


but maybe i did 

Dude,get busy and go to war on the weights and the food.

[njflex]

wes laying some truth/knowledge...

[Dr Dutch]

All I ever wanted was to look like this Chinese dude in my gym with a 43cm arm at 172cm height super lean great upperbody all together

I'm afraid you will never look Chinese...

[purenaturalstrength]

Dude,get busy and go to war on the weights and the food.

i've been doing that since i was 14 and it didnt work

[Dr Dutch]

i've been doing that since i was 14 and it didnt work

Surely you couldn't lift the weights you mentioned before when you were 14....

[purenaturalstrength]

Surely you couldn't lift the weights you mentioned before when you were 14....

i mean it didnt work to get arms and upperbody like that china man

and he said he was very quickly like that took him only a few years and by 25 he was swole as hell


he said the doctor tested his blood and his natural test is sky high that's why


i was like "not sure if serious" but i'm not a doctor!

[apply85]

first of all raymon u can stop postign that shit it's getting annoying

second natural bodybuilding shouldn;t work, the body tries to stay the same as much as it can, it treis to keep homeostasis, the body doesn't adapt like people think it should, it's simply not that sophisticated. if it changes it all, it's despite its own best efforts to stay the same

[wes]

first of all raymon u can stop postign that shit it's getting annoying

second natural bodybuilding shouldn;t work, the body tries to stay the same as much as it can, it treis to keep homeostasis, the body doesn't adapt like people think it should, it's simply not that sophisticated. if it changes it all, it's despite its own best efforts to stay the same

You have to be the impetus that makes the body change.

I wish I could see PNS training to see if he really knows what hard training is.

I`m not saying he doesn`t,but I`ve seen so many guys who say they train hard and they aren`t even scratching the surface.

I`m talking intensity,no talking,all out effort, all the time........fun time comes later when the training is done.......after all you paid for a membership,why waste your money.

Too many fucks wander around talking in the gym then complain how they can`t gain or make progress.

[Raymondo]

apply, didn't read 

[purenaturalstrength]

You have to be the impetus that makes the body change.

I wish I could see PNS training to see if he really knows what hard training is.

I`m not saying he doesn`t,but I`ve seen so many guys who say they train hard and they aren`t even scratching the surface.

I`m talking intensity,no talking,all out effort, all the time........fun time comes later when the training is done.......after all you paid for a membership,why waste your money.

Too many fucks wander around talking in the gym then complain how they can`t gain or make progress.

you better believe it

people don't think i will make the first set of my 5x5 squats usually and at the end of the 5 sets they will say i'm crazy will get a brain aneurysm

[wes]

you better believe it

people don't think i will make the first set of my 5x5 squats usually and at the end of the 5 sets they will say i'm crazy will get a brain aneurysm

Cool,just trying to verbally light a fire under your ass.

Never quit dude!!

[purenaturalstrength]

second natural bodybuilding shouldn;t work, the body tries to stay the same as much as it can, it treis to keep homeostasis, the body doesn't adapt like people think it should, it's simply not that sophisticated. if it changes it all, it's despite its own best efforts to stay the same

if this is true and it could very well be

then natural bodybuilding is quite literally the dumbest sport ever

[purenaturalstrength]

Cool,just trying to verbally light a fire under your ass.

Never quit dude!!

was never planning to quit

can anyone ellaborate on that "practical programming" book by riptoe?

is it good? i real he benched 396 as his alltime best and he used steroids so not sure if that's all too impressive

best book I own is "beyond brawn" but it's all over the place and repetitive unstructured

[dustin]

so do you do it after your weights or before?

I do it before. I know that was always criticized but it's light intensity, and barely enough to get myself sweating.

I don't like doing it after because it diverts blood from the muscles I just worked. Once I finish the weights I just want to get home to eat and shower.

[Natural Man]

Yeah, bro.

You can look good as a natural, but you can't look GREAT. And you can build up a decent foundation naturally too, but you can't be a bodybuilder. The body's natural limit is too low. It doesn't want to carry sheaths of muscle, nor can it unless you augment your training regimen with glorious, glorious hormonas.

Define great... Achieving the maximum muscle mass you can naturally is looking great to me, wether you re an ecto, endo or meso. And im not even implying you should be watching your diet. But again it's clearely easier for ectos and mesos than it is for endos, that's a fact. Endos are genetically programmed to transform everything they eat into fat while ectos burn everything, and mesos have the best of both worlds, they build muscles faster than others and dont store fat like endos do.

[Raymondo]

LOL with the flex science.

fat french fucker asking for steroids, also a fact