Obama backs gay marriage

[The True Adonis]

so you think he lied when he said it was because of talking with his daughters and friends and family and thinking that gays deserve the same equal protection and respect as straight people?

I think he always supported Gay Marriage, but could not say so publicly because he is a Political Animal and Politics make true statements impossible given the stupidity of the public writ large.  He didn`t have to "evolve" on this issue and never did.  He is just saying that nonsense.

[MCWAY]

no one gave just minorities rights.  They were  granted to everyone in the CA Constitution and were just being denied to a certain minority group

And in my post I said take California as an example since you seem have made gay marriage your life obsession you should have know full well what I was referring to

Life obsession? Hardly!! Refuting your factually-challenged quips is just something I do well.

California's constitution was MODIFIED, courtesy of Prop. 8.

The CA Supreme Court ruled that the Equal Protection clause of the CA Constitution also applies to sexual orientation:

Now, as we know voters later voted to take away the rights of this minority class (funded in large part by religious kooks from outside the state)

I think now that we have a precedent for the removal of civil right we ought to look for ways to take away the civil rights of right wingers, fundies and anyone else that we can.   Since CA is primarily a liberal/progressive state we should look for ways to take away rights of right wingers.   I'm sure no right winger have a problem with this since they used the same process to take away the rights of people they don't agree with

Once again, WHO gives people these "civil rights", Straw?

In other words, in your mind, four judges can give people rights but millions of voters can't. 

Furthermore, as far as "out of state" kooks go, there were plenty of out-of-state activists and money ON BOTH SIDES. Or did you conveniently forget that. In fact, as is often the case, the gay "marriage" supporters outspent the Prop. 8 supporters. Although, in California, the difference in cash was somewhat smaller than normal.

Usually, the gays and their buddies outspent traditional marriage supporters by 2 to 1, which makes their losses even more frustrating (see North Carolina).

Kindly explain why California's attempt of a gay "marriage" amendment crashed and burned, if California is so "progressive".

[MCWAY]

I think he always supported Gay Marriage, but could not say so publicly because he is a Political Animal and Politics make true statements impossible given the stupidity of the public writ large.  He didn`t have to "evolve" on this issue and never did.  He is just saying that nonsense.

In other words, HE'S LYING. He looked Pastor Rick Warren DEAD IN THE EYE and said, in front of the audience in Warren's California church, that he believed marriage is a union between one man and one woman. He did the same on MTV, just days before the election, "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage"

No matter how you spin it, Adonis, Obama is a flat-out LIAR, who "evolved" because he needed the campaign money. As of March, he had less than a quarter of the campaign cash that Bush did in 2004.

His record sucks, and he's en route to the same beating his fellow Democrats took in 2010.

[The True Adonis]

In other words, HE'S LYING. He looked Pastor Rick Warren DEAD IN THE EYE and said, in front of an audience, that he believed marriage is a union between one man and one woman. He did the same on MTV, just days before the election, further adding "I am not in favor of gay marriage"

No matter how you spin it, Adonis, Obama is a flat-out LIAR, who only "evolved" because he needed the money. As of March, he had less than a quarter of the campaign cash that Bush did in 2004.

Of course he lied.  Mitt Romney is a liar too.  I know he doesn`t believe in the bullshit magic Underpants Religion either, but he won`t say it.  He can`t possibly believe Joseph Smith in 1823, was visited at night by an angel named Moroni, who revealed the location of a buried book of golden plates as well as other artifacts, including a breastplate and a set of silver spectacles with lenses composed of seer stones, which had been hidden in a hill near his home.

IF he believes that, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Straw Man]

Life obsession? Hardly!! Refuting your factually-challenged quips is just something I do well.

California's constitution was MODIFIED, courtesy of Prop. 8.

Once again, WHO gives people these "civil rights", Straw?

Furthermore, as far as "out of state" kooks go, there were plenty of out-of-state activists and money ON BOTH SIDES. Or did you conveniently forget that. In fact, as is often the case, the gay "marriage" supporters outspent the Prop. 8 supporters. Although, in California, the difference in cash was somewhat smaller than normal.

Usually, the gays and their buddies outspent traditional marriage supporters by 2 to 1, which makes their losses even more frustrating (see North Carolina).

Kindly explain why California's attempt of a gay "marriage" amendment crashed and burned, if California is so "progressive".

my speculation is that it failed in Part due hispanics who are traditionally Catholic and in part because Yes on Prop 8 meant a No on gay marriage and I think many people were aso confused that Yes = No


As you know the measure was titled  to say Eliminates Rights of Same-Sex Couples to Marry

Now that we know we can vote away a group of peoples rights in this state I think we should see how far we can go

As long as the majority agrees I assume you woud have no objection to the majority of voters elimininating ANY right

And when the majority of voters eventually rescind Prop 8 I assume you'll have no problem with that either

[MCWAY]

Of course he lied.  Mitt Romney is a liar too.  I know he doesn`t believe in the bullshit magic Underpants Religion either, but he won`t say it.  He can`t possibly believe Joseph Smith in 1823, was visited at night by an angel named Moroni, who revealed the location of a buried book of golden plates as well as other artifacts, including a breastplate and a set of silver spectacles with lenses composed of seer stones, which had been hidden in a hill near his home.

IF he believes that, I have a bridge to sell you.

The issue isn't Romney's faith (don't tell me you're going to claim that Romney's a closet atheist, just as you did with Obama).

It's your preposterous claim that Obama switched his view on gay "marriage", based on so-called scientific facts and date. This was a political move, pure and simple, based largely on financial reasons (and the fact that Romney is ahead of him in the polls, especially among independents).

[MCWAY]

my speculation is that it failed in Part due hispanics who are traditionally Catholic and in part because Yes on Prop 8 meant a No on gay marriage and I think many people were aso confused that Yes = No


As you know the measure was titled  to say Eliminates Rights of Same-Sex Couples to Marry

Now that we know we can vote away a group of peoples rights in this state I think we should see how far we can go

As long as the majority agrees I assume you woud have no objection to the majority of voters elimininating ANY right

And when the majority of voters eventually rescind Prop 8 I assume you'll have no problem with that either

That wasn't the original title of Prop. 8. Then-attorney-general-now-governor Gerry Brown changed the title AFTER HE APPROVED the amendment to go on the ballot.

That was done, hoping that Prop. 8 would be voted down, as he made that approval prior to the Court ruling that the previous law (Prop. 22) was unconstitutional per California's constitution. I suspect the California Court let gays have marriage licenses, even with Prop. 8 looming on the horizon, with the goal of influencing the vote on Prop. 8.

Had it been voted down, the court and Brown would likely have said, "See, the court's ruling was in line with the people." Just a few weeks before election days, polls were saying that Prop. 8 would lose and that Californians were in favor of gay "marriage". But, that ain't how it went down.


Who determines what people get "rights", again, judges or voters?

The court ruled based on the state constitution (or at least, how they interpreted it). So, the voters amended the constitution SO AS TO LEAVE NO DOUBT as to how marriage should be defined. States have been doing that proactively, to keep state courts like that of California and Massachusetts from doing what they did within their borders, the most recent of which was North Carolina.

[The True Adonis]

The issue isn't Romney's faith (don't tell me you're going to claim that Romney's a closet atheist, just as you did with Obama).

It's your preposterous claim that Obama switched his view on gay "marriage", based on so-called scientific facts and date. This was a political move, pure and simple, based largely on financial reasons (and the fact that Romney is ahead of him in the polls, especially among independents).

Romney is not a stupid person and his wife and her family were all atheists.  Mormonism for Romney is more of an identity than a religion.  Do you really think he believes in wearing Magical Underwear and that Joseph Smith was really an apostle in the 1800s?  Joseph Smith is a known Fraud and Mountebank and nothing more.  Romney is not stupid enough to believe otherwise.

[The True Adonis]

The issue isn't Romney's faith (don't tell me you're going to claim that Romney's a closet atheist, just as you did with Obama).

It's your preposterous claim that Obama switched his view on gay "marriage", based on so-called scientific facts and date. This was a political move, pure and simple, based largely on financial reasons (and the fact that Romney is ahead of him in the polls, especially among independents).

Obama NEVER switched his view.  He just lied about switching it in my opinion.

[MCWAY]

Romney is not a stupid person and his wife and her family were all atheists.  Mormonism for Romney is more of an identity than a religion.  Do you really think he believes in wearing Magical Underwear and that Joseph Smith was really an apostle in the 1800s?  Joseph Smith is a known Fraud and Mountebank and nothing more.  Romney is not stupid enough to believe otherwise.

More comedic gold. Now, we have all these politicians who are closet atheists. What are you smoking? I'm sure Snoop Dogg would love to get his hands on it.

Ann Romney was an Episcopalian, before becoming a Mormon. Her dad was said to oppose organized religion. That does NOT equate to being an atheist.

[Straw Man]

Obama NEVER switched his view.  He just lied about switching it in my opinion.

that seems to be the case

[The True Adonis]

More comedic gold. Now, we have all these politicians who are closet atheists. What are you smoking? I'm sure Snoop Dogg would love to get his hands on it.

There are more Atheists in the Closet than there are Gays in the Closet.  

[The True Adonis]

More comedic gold. Now, we have all these politicians who are closet atheists. What are you smoking? I'm sure Snoop Dogg would love to get his hands on it.

You wouldn`t vote for Romney if you knew he was an atheist, nor would most registered Republicans therefore you will NEVER hear Romney come out of the closet.  There have been a few Atheist Republicans-Barry Goldwater-who today would probably be considered a liberal (despite being a REAL CONSERVATIVE).  John Bolton also comes to mind and Karl Rove.

[MCWAY]

There are more Atheists in the Closet than there are Gays in the Closet.  

Ann Romney wasn't one of them and neither was Mitt.

[MCWAY]

You wouldn`t vote for Romney if you knew he was an atheist, nor would most registered Republicans therefore you will NEVER hear Romney come out of the closet.  There have been a few Atheist Republicans-Barry Goldwater-who today would probably be considered a liberal (despite being a REAL CONSERVATIVE).  John Bolton also comes to mind and Karl Rove.

No, I wouldn't vote for Romney if he were an atheist, especially if he were of the stripe of atheists that tend to be flat-out JERKS.

Romney is no more of a closet atheist than Obama is. But, keep up this pitiful attempt to paint them as such. It's quite laughable.

[Straw Man]

I think he always supported Gay Marriage, but could not say so publicly because he is a Political Animal and Politics make true statements impossible given the stupidity of the public writ large.  He didn`t have to "evolve" on this issue and never did.  He is just saying that nonsense.

yeah, I think that is the case too

He made a political decision to pretend to be on the fence about it

He has to walk that tightrope to appeal to fundies and frankly I'm kind of amazed he finally took a stand

The one thing that has really disappointed me about Obama was how quickly he has caved in on stuff he bleive and how quickly he throught people under the bus (Shirly Sherrond, Van Joses, Bush Tax cuts, etc..)  Though I also acknowledge I have no idea what he is really dealing with behind closed doors or the compromises that have to be made to get shit done

[Straw Man]

That wasn't the original title of Prop. 8. Then-attorney-general-now-governor Gerry Brown changed the title AFTER HE APPROVED the amendment to go on the ballot.

That was done, hoping that Prop. 8 would be voted down, as he made that approval prior to the Court ruling that the previous law (Prop. 22) was unconstitutional per California's constitution. I suspect the California Court let gays have marriage licenses, even with Prop. 8 looming on the horizon, with the goal of influencing the vote on Prop. 8.

Had it been voted down, the court and Brown would likely have said, "See, the court's ruling was in line with the people." Just a few weeks before election days, polls were saying that Prop. 8 would lose and that Californians were in favor of gay "marriage". But, that ain't how it went down.


Who determines what people get "rights", again, judges or voters?

The court ruled based on the state constitution (or at least, how they interpreted it). So, the voters amended the constitution SO AS TO LEAVE NO DOUBT as to how marriage should be defined. States have been doing that proactively, to keep state courts like that of California and Massachusetts from doing what they did within their borders, the most recent of which was North Carolina.

I know

I remember that fundies bitched and moaned because the title was actually accurate as to exactly what was going on and your kind prefers deceoption in order to advance your ridiculous agenda of trying to get free people to live by your chosen standards

[MCWAY]

yeah, I think that is the case too

He made a political decision to pretend to be on the fence about it

He has to walk that tightrope to appeal to fundies and frankly I'm kind of amazed he finally took a stand

The one thing that has really disappointed me about Obama was how quickly he has caved in on stuff he bleive and how quickly he throught people under the bus (Shirly Sherrond, Van Joses, Bush Tax cuts, etc..)  Though I also acknowledge I have no idea what he is really dealing with behind closed doors or the compromises that have to be made to get shit done

He had no choice. Biden spilled the beans. Besides, the ordering of the Justice Department not to enforce DOMA and the attempt to force chaplains to perform gay "marriage" ceremonies were a few subtle hints.

BTW, add Rev. Wright to the list of bus-flattened people.

[Straw Man]

He had no choice. Biden spilled the beans. Besides, the ordering of the Justice Department not to enforce DOMA and the attempt to force chaplains to perform gay "marriage" ceremonies were a few subtle hints.

BTW, add Rev. Wright to the list of bus-flattened people.

of course he has a choice

Biden speaks for himself and that's all the POTUS had to say, if even that

[MCWAY]

I know

I remember that fundies bitched and moaned because the title was actually accurate as to exactly what was going on and your kind prefers deceoption in order to advance your ridiculous agenda of trying to get free people to live by your chosen standards

There was no deception. The purpose of Prop. 8 was to return California's definition of marriage to what it had been, since the state's existence, what the voters stated it should be per the law (which was not afoul of the US Constitution). Four judges tried to squelch the will of the voters but they amended their constitution, which the judges grudgingly admitted they had to follow.

Brown changed the name, trying to sway the vote in his favor. But, it didn't work.

If any rights were taken, it was that of the people by four judges, trying to keep the voters from defining marriage as they saw fit, in lines with the state and federal constitutions

[The True Adonis]

No, I wouldn't vote for Romney if he were an atheist, especially if he were of the stripe of atheists that tend to be flat-out JERKS.

Romney is no more of a closet atheist than Obama is. But, keep up this pitiful attempt to paint them as such. It's quite laughable.

Do you think that Romney believes Joseph Smith is an apostle?

[Straw Man]

There was no deception. The purpose of Prop. 8 was to return California's definition of marriage to what it had been, since the state's existence, what the voters stated it should be per the law (which was not afoul of the US Constitution). Four judges tried to squelch the will of the voters but they amended their constitution, which the judges grudgingly admitted they had to follow.

Brown changed the name, trying to sway the vote in his favor. But, it didn't work.

Brown changed the name to make it as accurate as possible

The ammendment intent was to take away the rights of gay people

thats' what it did

the one thing I don't undertand about Fundie and Repubs in general is that you seem to be ashamed of your agenda or maybe it's like Pat Robertson has said, that you have to be deceptive in trying to get your agenda through because if people really understood it they would be against it

[MCWAY]

Do you think that Romney believes Joseph Smith is an apostle?

Perhaps he does. BIG DEAL!!

[MCWAY]

Brown changed the name to make it as accurate as possible

The ammendment intent was to take away the rights of gay people

thats' what it did

the one thing I don't undertand about Fundie and Repubs in general is that you seem to be ashamed of your agenda or maybe it's like Pat Robertson has said, that you have to be deceptive in trying to get your agenda through because if people really understood it they would be against it

Brown did no such thing. He changed it, hoping to swing the election but failed to do so.

And, the agenda is hardly deceptive. It's spelled out in no uncertain terms. That may be among the reasons that gay "marriage" supporters are 0-32 at the ballot box. And, after this election, they'll likely be 0-35.

[The True Adonis]

Perhaps he does. BIG DEAL!!

Its a direct contradiction to what you believe.