Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[jude2]

There's two types of inflation, the usual asset price and product price inflation due to monetary expansion, currency holders grumble but put up with the hidden tax. The far more devastating "loss of confidence in the currency" inflation -> hyperinflation, currency holders begin to exit, when holders of the currency begin exiting the remaining holders have to take the hit of all the accumulated inflation that was just dumped by the exiters

As unbelievable as it sounds the US$ is definitely starting to feel some of the effects of the latter. Microstrategy is putting reserves into BTC precisely for these stated reasons, and they are the in the vanguard.

Hyperbitcoinisation is now becoming a distinct possibility.

Bitcon is in Vanguard funds?

[gib]

Bitcon is in Vanguard funds?

Yes.

Further, we might even start to see various listed companies (especially in Fintech) actually report earnings in BTC (as opposed to USD).

I have said it many times before - anyone how is currently privileged enough now (and that is most Americans and getbiggers) to be able to own some bitcoin should do so ASAP to ensure they preserve (or enhance) their status in a possible new world. There are numerous future scenarios (not implausible) where BTC  provides a huge hedge and upside if you own some.

[Teutonic Knight 1]

By "Cash them in", do you mean sell in return for cash? If so, the answer is simple. You transfer any portion of the bitcoin you have and wish to sell, to someone who wishes to buy that amount. In exchange, they give you a mutually agreed amount in cash (and whatever currency you agree upon) in return. Just like how you would sell gold, or how you would convert any other type of currency or asset into cash.

Hey Vince, how is uncle Tedros of WHO fame !. 

[Teutonic Knight 1]

By "Cash them in", do you mean sell in return for cash? If so, the answer is simple. You transfer any portion of the bitcoin you have and wish to sell, to someone who wishes to buy that amount. In exchange, they give you a mutually agreed amount in cash (and whatever currency you agree upon) in return. Just like how you would sell gold, or how you would convert any other type of currency or asset into cash.

Science Fiction to the max . You obviously never ever travel to other continents & exchange cash !.

Ah, Vince !. 

[gib]

There's two types of inflation, the usual asset price and product price inflation due to monetary expansion, currency holders grumble but put up with the hidden tax. The far more devastating "loss of confidence in the currency" inflation -> hyperinflation, currency holders begin to exit, when holders of the currency begin exiting the remaining holders have to take the hit of all the accumulated inflation that was just dumped by the exiters

As unbelievable as it sounds the US$ is definitely starting to feel some of the effects of the latter. Microstrategy is putting reserves into BTC precisely for these stated reasons, and they are the in the vanguard.

Hyperbitcoinisation is now becoming a distinct possibility.

This article explains what I think both you are saying.

In summary USD is continuously being devalued. Anyone holding USD cash is essentially being stolen from by the Government (not just by taxes in income and capital gains), but more insidiously by the Government creating more money (which has the effect of devaluing the purchasing power of those who are paid in cash or who store wealth in cash). This results in nominal cost of goods and services rising (or quality of what is provided for the same price falling or shrinking over time).

The traditional (and still current) defense against this phenomenon is to buy stocks. Gold played a historical role as a store of value (and is still relevant in this role today, although becoming less so). As we move to a digitized, mobile and globalized world, BTC is continuing to grow as a collectively agreed on store of value, controlled by no person or Government, and immutable and pure (not to mention limited in supply) as it is based on the truth of a mathematical algorithm. And this is why it is so so important to own some.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/inflationism-has-overturned-society?

[Bindare_Dundat]

It is currency on the black market but it ends there pretty much.  I have paid for my gear in BTC for many years.

For 95% of other holders it is speculative.

There will be many pump and dumps due to it trying to expand it's market penetration.

Gib ate a lot of shit in his other thread. BTC did crash but he still made 5x his initial investment.

I bumped this thread back at the start of corona and said it will go on a run and i was in. I said it would outstrip stocks and gold due to it's volatility and newness in the market. Gold keeps banging it's banging it's head on the ceiling because there is no real inflation (despite many here disagreeing) and i have been right about gold. Stocks are kept afloat by QE and the market is nervous as QE has just blown up the financial metrics (i can expand on that if someone wants).

Crtypo meanwhile 80% gains.......

Really? xrp went up 80%? thats crypto. It hasn't moved in over a year and is down big time from its high.
I'm sure there are other examples.

[gib]

Really? xrp went up 80%? thats crypto. It hasn't moved in over a year and is down big time from its high.
I'm sure there are other examples.

I have never been an advocate of other cryptos (all of which are basically imitators). An infinite number of cryptos can be produced, so taken to its logical conclusion all cryptos would eventually fail through market saturation, unless we all collectively gravitate towards one. And that is exactly what is happening.

This is why it is important to BUY BITCOIN.

The dominance of BTC vs alts is rising, and this will keep happening as society collectively agrees on a global digital currency. Look at were the smart money is going. These are powerful people and organizations, who in turn have huge incentives and resources to ensure their investment of choice grows in value. And that in turn is collectively pooling into Bitcoin. We may see the occasional alt pop up due to some kind of hype, but in general both individuals and corporate investors are now much smarter this time around.

[Bindare_Dundat]

I'm all for bitcoin. It isn't going anywhere. I just don't like the use of the word crypto in the way it was used.in the above example

[gib]

I'm all for bitcoin. It isn't going anywhere. I just don't like the use of the word crypto in the way it was used.in the above example

Yeah got it. Its a bit like saying "metals" when referring to gold. Yes, gold is a metal, but not all metals are gold...

[Mayday]

There's two types of inflation, the usual asset price and product price inflation due to monetary expansion, currency holders grumble but put up with the hidden tax. The far more devastating "loss of confidence in the currency" inflation -> hyperinflation, currency holders begin to exit, when holders of the currency begin exiting the remaining holders have to take the hit of all the accumulated inflation that was just dumped by the exiters

As unbelievable as it sounds the US$ is definitely starting to feel some of the effects of the latter. Microstrategy is putting reserves into BTC precisely for these stated reasons, and they are the in the vanguard.

Hyperbitcoinisation is now becoming a distinct possibility.

Hyperinflation is 50% inflation per month. We are not anywhere remotely close to that this year let alone each month.

In March my prediction for 2020 was 25% annual currency expansion. As of the end of September we sit at 16%, the 4th highest in over 80yrs.

In 2 months, we will have experienced the largest increase in annual currency expansion in over 80yrs and we will be ballpark 25% by year end (i rack all money supply data against IRs, CPI, wage inflation and property medians).

The result? CPI is 1.7%, interest rates are at zero and retail banks are lowering their own rates, gold is banging it's head on the ceiling and we are on edge of property and businesses going backwards. 

So no, shit isn't flying up anywhere right now as a result from currency expansion. This is why so many predictions  have been wrong because they completely dismiss that we are deflating the debt market right now.

If a hamburger goes up 50 cents but your property loses 100k, are you really going to whinge that we are on the verge of hyperinflation because your burger is getting expensive?

[gib]

If a hamburger goes up 50 cents but your property loses 100k, are you really going to whinge that we are on the verge of hyperinflation because your burger is getting expensive?

Do you mean "but your property gains 100K"?

[gib]

Good clip here that discusses the macro-economics of inflation and future economic outlook. For those who are more academic minded well worth a listen.

[Mayday]

Do you mean "but your property gains 100K"?

No, as the context to why i was replying is people claiming we are on the verge of 50% inflation each month because something insignificant they bought was a little mkre expensive. Meanwhile disregarding that certain large property markets are in a world of hurt.

Ie when you take into account that the most exoensive thing you own has lost a chunk of value, you won't r3ally give a shit about a 50c price rise of your hamburger, nor would one claim 50% inflation each month.

[Mr Anabolic]

No, as the context to why i was replying is people claiming we are on the verge of 50% inflation each month because something insignificant they bought was a little mkre expensive. Meanwhile disregarding that certain large property markets are in a world of hurt.

Ie when you take into account that the most exoensive thing you own has lost a chunk of value, you won't r3ally give a shit about a 50c price rise of your hamburger, nor would one claim 50% inflation each month.

Your brain is made of hamburger. 

[Marty Champions]

No, as the context to why i was replying is people claiming we are on the verge of 50% inflation each month because something insignificant they bought was a little mkre expensive. Meanwhile disregarding that certain large property markets are in a world of hurt.

Ie when you take into account that the most exoensive thing you own has lost a chunk of value, you won't r3ally give a shit about a 50c price rise of your hamburger, nor would one claim 50% inflation each month.

housing depreciation and what some one will pay for a house are totally unrelated because no property in the past 10 years has gotten cheaper

[gib]

No, as the context to why i was replying is people claiming we are on the verge of 50% inflation each month because something insignificant they bought was a little mkre expensive. Meanwhile disregarding that certain large property markets are in a world of hurt.

Ie when you take into account that the most exoensive thing you own has lost a chunk of value, you won't r3ally give a shit about a 50c price rise of your hamburger, nor would one claim 50% inflation each month.

Which property markets are in a world of hurt? Property in most countries are close to record highs (at least where I invest). Are you talking about places in the US such as Detroit etc? Ny and San Francisco, Portland, Florida, Miami etc all doing well.

But yes, I agree, a 50% loss on a leveraged asset would really hurt for some people. Which is why we see money printing and continued price asset support from the Fed. Keeps the banks happy. Keeps developers happy. Creates for for laborers. Encourages spending due to the "wealth effect". And (very insidiously) enables the Government to effectively steal money from the masses through capital gains taxes (among other taxes).

[polychronopolous]

JPMorgan says institutional investors appear to prefer bitcoin over gold

Institutional investors, such as family offices, might be looking at bitcoin as an alternative to gold, according to JPMorgan analysts.

In a research note published Friday, JPMorgan analysts said Grayscale's bitcoin trust saw cumulative inflows through October, whereas gold exchange-traded funds (ETFs) saw "modest outflows" since mid-October. "This contrast lends support to the idea that some investors that previously invested in gold ETFs such as family offices, may be looking at bitcoin as an alternative to gold," said the analysts.

Both retail and institutional investors are driving demand for Grayscale's bitcoin trust, according to the analysts. The trust currently manages $7.6 billion worth of assets in total.


The potential long-term upside for bitcoin is "considerable" if it competes "more intensely with gold as an 'alternative' currency,'" according to the analysts. However, bitcoin's market cap would have to rise ten times from current levels "to match the total private sector investment in gold ETFs or bars and coins," said the analysts.

Corporate endorsements of bitcoin in general and PayPal's support, in particular, have also propelled the demand for bitcoin, according to the analysts. Bitcoin, however, appears to be "close to overbought levels on our momentum signal framework, something that could potential[ly] trigger profit taking or mean reversion flows," said the analysts.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/84001/jpmorgan-bitcoin-gold-institutional-investors-gbtc

[polychronopolous]

Every Major Bank Will Have Exposure to Bitcoin, Says Renowned Fund Manager Bill Miller


Veteran investor Bill Miller says that all major banks, investment banks, and high net worth firms will eventually have some exposure to bitcoin or something like it. He said that bitcoin’s staying power is getting better every day.

Bill Miller’s Bullish Statements About Bitcoin
A growing number of major corporations have been gaining exposure to bitcoin, prompting speculation of when the rest of them will follow. Following Microstrategy’s $425 million investment, Square invested in bitcoin and Paypal launched a cryptocurrency service. Now, famous investor Bill Miller reportedly told CNBC on Friday:

I think every major bank, every major investment bank, every major high net worth firm is going to eventually have some exposure to bitcoin or what’s like it.

He named “gold or some kind of commodities” as alternative investments like bitcoin.

Bill Miller founded Miller Value Partners and currently serves as its chairman and chief investment officer. He manages the Opportunity Equity and Income Strategy portfolios. Miller previously co-founded Legg Mason Capital Management and co-managed the Legg Mason Capital Management Value Trust from its inception in 1982. He took over as sole manager in December 1990 and served in this role for the next 20 years. Prior to joining Legg Mason, he served as treasurer of the JE Baker Company, a major manufacturer of products for the steel and cement industries. He famously beat the S&P 500 every year from 1991 to 2005.

While noting that the price of bitcoin has been “very volatile,” the famed investor believes that the cryptocurrency’s “staying power gets better every day” and the risks of it “going to zero are much much lower than they’ve ever been before.”

https://news.bitcoin.com/bill-miller-every-major-bank-exposure-bitcoin/

[Mr Anabolic]

JPMorgan says institutional investors appear to prefer bitcoin over gold

Institutional investors, such as family offices, might be looking at bitcoin as an alternative to gold, according to JPMorgan analysts.

In a research note published Friday, JPMorgan analysts said Grayscale's bitcoin trust saw cumulative inflows through October, whereas gold exchange-traded funds (ETFs) saw "modest outflows" since mid-October. "This contrast lends support to the idea that some investors that previously invested in gold ETFs such as family offices, may be looking at bitcoin as an alternative to gold," said the analysts.

Both retail and institutional investors are driving demand for Grayscale's bitcoin trust, according to the analysts. The trust currently manages $7.6 billion worth of assets in total.


The potential long-term upside for bitcoin is "considerable" if it competes "more intensely with gold as an 'alternative' currency,'" according to the analysts. However, bitcoin's market cap would have to rise ten times from current levels "to match the total private sector investment in gold ETFs or bars and coins," said the analysts.

Corporate endorsements of bitcoin in general and PayPal's support, in particular, have also propelled the demand for bitcoin, according to the analysts. Bitcoin, however, appears to be "close to overbought levels on our momentum signal framework, something that could potential[ly] trigger profit taking or mean reversion flows," said the analysts.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/84001/jpmorgan-bitcoin-gold-institutional-investors-gbtc

[polychronopolous]

Billionaire Investor Stanley Druckenmiller: Bitcoin Better Bet than Gold

Stanley Druckenmiller, a billionaire investor who managed George Soros's money back in the 1990s, today sang the praises of Bitcoin.

"It could be an asset class that has a lot of attraction as a store of value to both Millennials and to the new West Coast money—and as you know they've got a lot of it," said Druckenmiller. "It's been around for 13 years [actually, 12] and with each passing day it picks up more of its stabilization," he said in an interview with CNBC today.

Druckenmiller's comments come as Bitcoin's price breaks past $15,000, almost four times its price in March, and about $5,000 more than its price at the start of last month.

"I own many many more times gold than I own Bitcoin, but frankly if the gold bet works, the Bitcoin bet will probably work better," he said, because it's "more illiquid and has a lot more beta to it," he said. Beta measures how volatile an asset is compared to the market as a whole.

Druckenmiller in 2018 invested in Basis, a US stablecoin company that shut down in...2018.

Last June, Druckenmiller told an audience at the Economic Club of New York that he considers Bitcoin "a solution in search of a problem," and that he "didn't need to be playing in Bitcoin."

He would neither short nor long Bitcoin, since he doesn't get why it's a store of value. “I don’t understand why we need this thing," he said.

Of the argument that Bitcoin's valuable because you can't create it, he said last year, "there are a lot of things you can't create that aren't going to go to $1 million."

https://decrypt.co/47676/stanley-druckenmiller-bitcoin-better-bet-than-gold

[gib]

JPMorgan says institutional investors appear to prefer bitcoin over gold

Institutional investors, such as family offices, might be looking at bitcoin as an alternative to gold, according to JPMorgan analysts.

In a research note published Friday, JPMorgan analysts said Grayscale's bitcoin trust saw cumulative inflows through October, whereas gold exchange-traded funds (ETFs) saw "modest outflows" since mid-October. "This contrast lends support to the idea that some investors that previously invested in gold ETFs such as family offices, may be looking at bitcoin as an alternative to gold," said the analysts.

Both retail and institutional investors are driving demand for Grayscale's bitcoin trust, according to the analysts. The trust currently manages $7.6 billion worth of assets in total.


The potential long-term upside for bitcoin is "considerable" if it competes "more intensely with gold as an 'alternative' currency,'" according to the analysts. However, bitcoin's market cap would have to rise ten times from current levels "to match the total private sector investment in gold ETFs or bars and coins," said the analysts.

Corporate endorsements of bitcoin in general and PayPal's support, in particular, have also propelled the demand for bitcoin, according to the analysts. Bitcoin, however, appears to be "close to overbought levels on our momentum signal framework, something that could potential[ly] trigger profit taking or mean reversion flows," said the analysts.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/84001/jpmorgan-bitcoin-gold-institutional-investors-gbtc

Of course! Every single gold investor I know (other than stubborn and bitter Mr A) have taken an interest in BTC. In many physical gold shops they now offer a Gold to BTC sale, accept BTC to buy gold, price gold in BTC (as well as other FX) etc.

[pellius]

I wish I invested in BTC when this thread first started. Back then $5000 was a big thing.

[Teutonic Knight 1]

Which property markets are in a world of hurt? Property in most countries are close to record highs (at least where I invest). Are you talking about places in the US such as Detroit etc? Ny and San Francisco, Portland, Florida, Miami etc all doing well.

Vince tell us about yours investments in Monte Carlo,Singapore,Tokyo,..............

[Mayday]

I wish I invested in BTC when this thread first started. Back then $5000 was a big thing.

It had a recent large run up. It should pullback a little.

What i find interesting is these second lockdowns...... if we see euro lockdowns in 2021 and a US lockdown in 2021, i reckon you can bank on BTC @ 100k in 2022.

[gib]

It had a recent large run up. It should pullback a little.

What i find interesting is these second lockdowns...... if we see euro lockdowns in 2021 and a US lockdown in 2021, i reckon you can bank on BTC @ 100k in 2022.

Waiting for Mr A to misquote you as saying BTC will hit 1million by 2021... LOL