Max-OT

[ranger82]

Anyone else feel like they get no pump at all from the Max-OT routine?  30 total repetitions for biceps and then 30 more for triceps?  I couldn't force myself to walk out of the gym after that routine. I had to add sets of other exercises.  Maybe the pump isn't the point, but I feel like I wasted a session if I walk out flat.


*LINKS ADDED*

Max-OT  http://ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp
(Please note that the supplement company AST is behind this protocol, and thus it has its fair share of supplement marketing)

Here's a link to the complete protocol, without having to sign up...
http://www.freedomfly.net/Documents/MAX-OT.pdf

[Bluto]

i havent done max-ot but surely it couldnt hurt if you add a finishing move to the end of the set, for the pump and go high reps if thats what required? it might not build extra mass (thats debatable) but if it makes you feel good, why not?
i can't see how it could hurt.

[Hedgehog]

Anyone else feel like they get no pump at all from the Max-OT routine?  30 total repetitions for biceps and then 30 more for triceps?  I couldn't force myself to walk out of the gym after that routine. I had to add sets of other exercises.  Maybe the pump isn't the point, but I feel like I wasted a session if I walk out flat.

There's little or no pump.

Stick with the number of sets, the feeling you got right now is a good one. You feel like you cannot fcuk up one rep, because there are so few opportunities.

Try with two weeks of doing the training exactly like it is written.

Not a whole lot of sets. Make sure you get them done right, with heavy weights and giving it all you got.

YIP
Zack

[Overload]

Give it some time...Hedge has good advice.

Follow it to the letter...read the whole thing more than once. he has alot of good ideas that i still use in my training today and i've been using Max-ot off and on for almost 2 years.


 

[pjs]

The pump has nothing to do with growth.

Max OT is not a magic bullet.  There are lots of ways to train to get results - it matters more how hard you work than what routine you use, as long as you have the basics covered.

[Hedgehog]

The pump has nothing to do with growth.

Max OT is not a magic bullet.  There are lots of ways to train to get results - it matters more how hard you work than what routine you use, as long as you have the basics covered.

Another great advice.

Max-OT is of course just another training protocol. A very good one.

But there are some principle's that Max-OT uses that are good to pic up.

YIP
Zack

[Yev33]

I tried the Max-OT training for chest and triceps last night, by the 4th chest exercise my elbows were starting to hurt and I barely got a pump, my elbows never hurt before, and I usually go as low as 3 reps for compound movements. That Max-OT system reminds alot of the type of training Dorian Yates used, now I can see why he's had so many injuries.

[Hedgehog]

I tried the Max-OT training for chest and triceps last night, by the 4th chest exercise my elbows were starting to hurt and I barely got a pump, my elbows never hurt before, and I usually go as low as 3 reps for compound movements. That Max-OT system reminds alot of the type of training Dorian Yates used, now I can see why he's had so many injuries.

Odd. Doesn't add up.

If you go as low as three reps, why would 4-6 reps with a moderate volume of sets cause sore elbows?

YIP
Zack

[Yev33]

I normally do a pyramid,
set 1: 20 reps
set 2: 10-15reps
set 3: 7-9 reps
set 4: 4-6reps
set 5: 3 or less
the first set is the warm up, and every set after that is taken to failure as heavy as possible in the rep ranges. By the fifth set I have a good pump going, I am also fully warmed up for my heaviest sets. It works for me, not saying it's for everybody.

[Overload]

are you following his warm up advice and also doing assimilation sets?

i've never had any pain doing max-ot...

 

[Yev33]

Yeah, I warmed up very similar to what the Max-OT program proposes. I did a couple of sets with light weight about 10-12 reps. Then I did a couple more weight acclimation sets, the first movement wasn't too bad, but he says that you shouldn't warm up before your  other movements that follow. That's insane to me, I always pyramid for any movement I do, even if I am doing four consecutive exrcises for the same muscle. To say that just because you did 6 sets of bench presses you are automatically warmed up for 4-6 reps of max weight on say, incline DB presses is crazy. The angle and the range of motion are very different. Everyone is different though, I am not saying that Max-OT is a bad program, I am sure it gets great results for a portion of the people that try it. Just my two cents.   

[Overload]

Yeah, I warmed up very similar to what the Max-OT program proposes. I did a couple of sets with light weight about 10-12 reps. Then I did a couple more weight acclimation sets, the first movement wasn't too bad, but he says that you shouldn't warm up before your  other movements that follow. That's insane to me, I always pyramid for any movement I do, even if I am doing four consecutive exrcises for the same muscle. To say that just because you did 6 sets of bench presses you are automatically warmed up for 4-6 reps of max weight on say, incline DB presses is crazy. The angle and the range of motion are very different. Everyone is different though, I am not saying that Max-OT is a bad program, I am sure it gets great results for a portion of the people that try it. Just my two cents.   

It's all good, i just wanted to make sure you followed the protocol. many people don't like max-ot.

i'll admit that i would sometimes do a quick 8 rep warmup before each exercise but it was really light and didn't drain me of any energy. that is why he doesn't like warm ups, he believes that energy should be used in your working sets.

 

[ranger82]

I'm finishing up my second week of the Max-OT program.  I have followed the program by the letter except for adding a finishing exercise to each body part at low weight for high (15) reps.  I'm going to give it one more week and then switch it up again.  It's not that I don't see any results, it's that the whole program really doesn't feel comfortable to me.  And maybe what's comfortable to me equals a rut, so I'm probably going to try something different, but even at near max wieght, 4-6 reps doesn't feel like I'm working the muscles enough, no matter how "intense" the 4-6 reps are.

It really comes down to personal preference, like anything else.  I personally feel better stumbling out of the gym, barely able to walk or straighten my arms out. I don't get that from Max-OT.

[Hedgehog]

I'm finishing up my second week of the Max-OT program.  I have followed the program by the letter except for adding a finishing exercise to each body part at low weight for high (15) reps.  I'm going to give it one more week and then switch it up again.  It's not that I don't see any results, it's that the whole program really doesn't feel comfortable to me.  And maybe what's comfortable to me equals a rut, so I'm probably going to try something different, but even at near max wieght, 4-6 reps doesn't feel like I'm working the muscles enough, no matter how "intense" the 4-6 reps are.

It really comes down to personal preference, like anything else.  I personally feel better stumbling out of the gym, barely able to walk or straighten my arms out. I don't get that from Max-OT.

First you write that you've followed the program to the letter, then it's apparent that you haven't followed the program to the letter at all.

Not to be harsh, but here's something to consider:

Do you train to get the best possible results

or

do you train just to get a good feel in the gym?

If you rather train higher reps and more sets, longer workouts, and the gain in muscle mass is secondary, I suggest you drop Max-OT immediately.

YIP
Zack

[natural al]

First you write that you've followed the program to the letter, then it's apparent that you haven't followed the program to the letter at all.

Not to be harsh, but here's something to consider:

Do you train to get the best possible results

or

do you train just to get a good feel in the gym?

If you rather train higher reps and more sets, longer workouts, and the gain in muscle mass is secondary, I suggest you drop Max-OT immediately.

YIP
Zack

excactly..you can't follow a routine to the letter if you are adding things.  Do it as described.   there is a reason they didn't say "and finish with a few pump sets at the end."  You should be toast at the end of the routine.  Bottom line, you will get bigger and stronger on this routine, just watch the joints.

[ranger82]

Yeah, I added sets at the end because when I did follow the program to the letter I was not anywhere close to being "toast" at the end of the session.

And not to be harsh, but there's no way you can tell me adding a finishing exercise to Max-OT is going to in any way change the results of doing the remainder of the program.  It's high reps, low weight, and if your muscles are so "toast" that you can't do a finishing set, you wouldn't be able to walk out of the gym, pick up your car keys, etc. 

[Hedgehog]

Yeah, I added sets at the end because when I did follow the program to the letter I was not anywhere close to being "toast" at the end of the session.

And not to be harsh, but there's no way you can tell me adding a finishing exercise to Max-OT is going to in any way change the results of doing the remainder of the program.  It's high reps, low weight, and if your muscles are so "toast" that you can't do a finishing set, you wouldn't be able to walk out of the gym, pick up your car keys, etc. 

I'll give you this advice for your final week then:

Drop your extra sets. Up the weights on all your excersises, make sure to really push yourself, since you got so few sets and reps to work the muscle.

After this final week, make an honest assessment, decide what protocol you will use in the future.

YIP
Zack

[natural al]

Yeah, I added sets at the end because when I did follow the program to the letter I was not anywhere close to being "toast" at the end of the session.

And not to be harsh, but there's no way you can tell me adding a finishing exercise to Max-OT is going to in any way change the results of doing the remainder of the program.  It's high reps, low weight, and if your muscles are so "toast" that you can't do a finishing set, you wouldn't be able to walk out of the gym, pick up your car keys, etc. 

if I were to go into the gym and do a chest workout following max ot, which I did in 2004, my poundages and sets were something like this:

Incline dumbbell 125*6  130*4
hammer Wide press  450*6 for 2 sets
dumbbell flyes 90*6 for 2 sets-I was never a big fly guy, this program was the 1st time I really did them.

those are some decent poundages-for me, at a weight of about 190.  There is no way i was gonna add a set.  You have to learn to go to failure.  You can't just say one day "I'm training to failure" and that's it.  If you're training to failure and pushing yourself you should not be able to do anymore work.  That's the point of the program.  That's why you're only doing a bodypart once a week.  The point is to use MAX poundages since the program focuses on overload, you're always upping the ante so if you felt like you could do another set next time you need to up the weight so you physically can't do the set.  What benefit do you see in doing a high repper anyway?  Not being a smart ass, just wondering.

[stealth_swimmer]

I don't train with Max-OT but some concepts in my training are similar. I only do one or two warm up sets in my entire workout. All of my other sets are working sets.

[davie]

I wouldnt mind trying sumthing like Mx-ot but i can only train in the gym monday,wednesday and friday. ANd most of there routines have u trianing 5 days a week etc.
It seems very little sets for big muscles like legs. Iv been following a upper/lower split (week A upper/lower/upper....week B lower/upper/lower) and was thinking of switching to something else for amonth or so, was considering HSt or MAX-OT but dont want my month or so to be wasted, im willing to work as hard as i possibly can.

davie

[natural al]

I wouldnt mind trying sumthing like Mx-ot but i can only train in the gym monday,wednesday and friday. ANd most of there routines have u trianing 5 days a week etc.
It seems very little sets for big muscles like legs. Iv been following a upper/lower split (week A upper/lower/upper....week B lower/upper/lower) and was thinking of switching to something else for amonth or so, was considering HSt or MAX-OT but dont want my month or so to be wasted, im willing to work as hard as i possibly can.

davie

max OT is a good program, watch your joints, mine tended to really bother me, especially my elbows but it was the first time I really did heavy fly's so that might have been the reason.  I guess you could condense the program to 3 days a week, I don't know how that would work.  It's really heavy training so you might run out of gas if you try to squeeze too much in.  I used to do 4 days a week with this and really had no problem but 3 might be pushing it....there's some program out there where you train really hard for 3 days a week..it's kinda popular..it has initials in it like DC or something...look into that if you want to change things up.

[IceCold]

if I were to go into the gym and do a chest workout following max ot, which I did in 2004, my poundages and sets were something like this:

Incline dumbbell 125*6  130*4
hammer Wide press  450*6 for 2 sets
dumbbell flyes 90*6 for 2 sets-I was never a big fly guy, this program was the 1st time I really did them.

those are some decent poundages-for me, at a weight of about 190.  There is no way i was gonna add a set.  You have to learn to go to failure.  You can't just say one day "I'm training to failure" and that's it.  If you're training to failure and pushing yourself you should not be able to do anymore work.  That's the point of the program.  That's why you're only doing a bodypart once a week.  The point is to use MAX poundages since the program focuses on overload, you're always upping the ante so if you felt like you could do another set next time you need to up the weight so you physically can't do the set.  What benefit do you see in doing a high repper anyway?  Not being a smart ass, just wondering.

if you were trully going to failuer, there would be no way that you could do 2 sets with the same weight and get the same reps, esp. reps that low, like on the flyes and presses. 

[natural al]

if you were trully going to failuer, there would be no way that you could do 2 sets with the same weight and get the same reps, esp. reps that low, like on the flyes and presses. 

sure you can.  First you're training to momentary musclular failure, not musculare exhaustion, 2 different things.  Plus, now this was about 2 years ago so I'm going off of memory, don't you take 2-3 minutes rest between sets?  That's enough time to get ready for the second set, I did not do forced reps, since I train alone and I didn't do any negatives or any other advanced technique.  Just the other day I did the 120's 10 times on the inline bench, dropped em, took 12 deep breaths, picked em back up nad did 4 more, dropped em 12 deep breaths got em up for 1 more so I don't think what I typed is totally out of the picture.  momentary failure and increasing the resistance are the cornerstones of this routine, if I remember right so I don't think those numbers are to out of the realm of reality. 

[WOOO]

i think some of the elements of max-ot are valuable, but i think it's a crock for natural lifters.... if you use AAS, etc then it might work... but natural?  not enough work

[Overload]

i think some of the elements of max-ot are valuable, but i think it's a crock for natural lifters.... if you use AAS, etc then it might work... but natural?  not enough work

I think the opposite...i believe that natural trainers NEED Max-ot type workouts. short, heavy and low volume.

i've been on both sides of the fence and max-ot worked great when i was 100% natural, clean and when "enhanced"...just my opinion of course but anyone i have trained over the years has responded VERY well to max-ot, juiced or lifetime natural.

i have two personal friends who have been lifting for about 2 years, 100% natural. i explained max-ot to them and trained a few weeks with them to show them the ropes and they thank me everytime we hang out. they have made impressive gains in the last 4 months by following it to the letter.

just my opinion...