insulin for the first time..

[Bindare_Dundat]

Some great info but I'm still not crazy about taking insulin pre workout and would much rather try it post workout.

Can some of the more experienced users offer a kind of step by step for that process as was offered for preworkout? Thanks

[Jizmo]

umm... read the first page of this thread? 

[Bindare_Dundat]

umm... read the first page of this thread? 

Oh OK. So the routine after the insulin shot is the same pre workout or post workout.  Correct?

[Jizmo]

ah i thought u wanted a routine for pre workout use.

well, for post workout you dont really need a routine imo.
just inject and eat.
get in 10g carbs per iu right after injecting. with post workout use youre much less likely to go hypo.
i can inject 7-8iu novolog and nothing happens to my blood sugar. you have enough liver glycogen to balance out the drop in blood sugar levels.
HOWEVER inject 7-8iu and THEN GO WORKOUT though and thats a WHOLE different story, instant hypo and close to fainting.

PWO you can probably use complex carbs. if you use simple carbs you will need to spread them out over about 2 hours.

i actually never used slin post workout since its against the point of slin imo. its an extremely strong anti catabolic and it allows you to take up more glycogen with a delay of a couple hours (because of glut4 translocation). so post workout use never made any sense to me physiologically

[Bindare_Dundat]

ah i thought u wanted a routine for pre workout use.

well, for post workout you dont really need a routine imo.
just inject and eat.
get in 10g carbs per iu right after injecting. with post workout use youre much less likely to go hypo.
i can inject 7-8iu novolog and nothing happens to my blood sugar. you have enough liver glycogen to balance out the drop in blood sugar levels.
HOWEVER inject 7-8iu and THEN GO WORKOUT though and thats a WHOLE different story, instant hypo and close to fainting.

PWO you can probably use complex carbs. if you use simple carbs you will need to spread them out over about 2 hours.

i actually never used slin post workout since its against the point of slin imo. its an extremely strong anti catabolic and it allows you to take up more glycogen with a delay of a couple hours (because of glut4 translocation). so post workout use never made any sense to me physiologically

Yeah I suppose for some individuals, pre workout injection is the way to go but the thought of going hypo in the gym isn't very appealing. Ill be rethinking any idea of doing more insulin if its pointless to take it post workout, even though there seems to be quite a bit of information on the net that would suggest otherwise. But I do value your input. Thanks

[pellius]

It's fine in an emergency, then consume anything you can get your hands on.  Diabetics carry glucose tabs on them, not sucrose tabs.  In the hospitals glucagon is given, which is dextrose.  Use the fastest acting available, which is dextrose.  Mike Morris is not a bright guy, or it makes a good story...Ran home and ate oats?  He had no form of simple sugars in his house?  Shit, get a friggin soda and drink it instead of eating oats..  That's retarded. 

Of course if you are going to make a product specifically design for diabetics that go hypo you would use glucose. I don't know how you are able to determine the intelligence level of Mike Morris. He was a top pro bodybuilder and didn't strike me as a dullard in his interviews. But, be that as it may, the oatmeal served it's purpose and got him out of hypo. There is zero reason to make it up as it doesn't add to the story if he drank soda or ate bananas.

But whether someone uses sucrose or dextrose is not an issue I want to go tooth and nail for. On Amazon.com a 10lb bag of dextrose cost $52. The same bag of sugar cost $5 at a grocery store. If one feels that it makes that much of a difference then who am I to say they shouldn't. It might me noted that a real diabetic that produces no insulin is never advised to consume a pure sugar and just eat a regular meal with their slin whether it's humulin R or humalog.

[pellius]

lol hopefully 10iu not cc pellius
and yeah, ive left a half used insulin vial in my drawer (not cooled), 3 months later it had lost ZERO potency. insulin is very stable.

and yes, ALL carbs work with insulin, but fructuse is WAY inferior to glucose for the reasons i mentioned.
oats are also borderline DANGEROUS, because they take forever to be broken down into glucose molecules.
you want to use the most PREDICTABLE carbs with insulin. whole foods are a very bad choice imo.
only "whole food" you could use is candy. it raises your blood glucose within a minute or two, ive tested that. basically just as fast as a glucose-liquid.

some guys use gatorade. its WORKS too. however its inferior (unless theres gatorade with pure glucose in it, i dont know).
fruit juices are also a bad choice.
i would use as much glucose and as little fructose as possible fructose is simply useless.

very true.
HOWEVER glucagon is a hormone though, it has nothing to do with glucose

LOL @ 10cc.  Hope I didn't kill anybody. If so, sorry.

I corrected my post.

[pellius]

Yeah I suppose for some individuals, pre workout injection is the way to go but the thought of going hypo in the gym isn't very appealing. Ill be rethinking any idea of doing more insulin if its pointless to take it post workout, even though there seems to be quite a bit of information on the net that would suggest otherwise. But I do value your input. Thanks

Milos Sarcev, whom many consider the one who introduced the use of insulin into pro bbing and how to properly use it for muscle hypertrophy, states his reasoning for using insulin pre workout.

http://cleanhealth.com.au/interview-former-ifbb-pro-milos-sarcev/

So here is rationale behind it. Men have about 5L of blood and women have about 4L distributed all over the body which is constantly circulating around. In a state of rest at maximum about 10 -12 % of that blood finds its way in to our skeletal muscles, as there is no real physiological demand at the time of a low physical activity period. However, when we become active, blood is sent to our working muscles… and that increased blood flow to exercising muscles (Hyperemia) can achieve an astonishing 60% increase in blood flow or more during weight training. This happens ONLY during the workout!

So as my father suggested, if I supply all the necessary anabolic nutrients in a pre-digested form (e.g; ATP, glucose, amino acids etc) into the blood stream right before training and then continue delivering more of the same nutrients during my training session whilst raising the most anabolic hormone in our body – insulin – I will create an immediate and maximal anabolic environment.

So instead of loosing nutrients (protein degradation or catabolism) we are creating a greater nutritional uptake by our muscle cells (protein synthesis or anabolism) and simultaneously preventing anti-catabolism… everything we need to great the maximal results we are after. So we need to remember that we only have this opportunity during training, not before or after as blood will not be in the muscle to this extent.

[Jizmo]

Of course if you are going to make a product specifically design for diabetics that go hypo you would use glucose. I don't know how you are able to determine the intelligence level of Mike Morris. He was a top pro bodybuilder and didn't strike me as a dullard in his interviews. But, be that as it may, the oatmeal served it's purpose and got him out of hypo. There is zero reason to make it up as it doesn't add to the story if he drank soda or ate bananas.

But whether someone uses sucrose or dextrose is not an issue I want to go tooth and nail for. On Amazon.com a 10lb bag of dextrose cost $52. The same bag of sugar cost $5 at a grocery store. If one feels that it makes that much of a difference then who am I to say they shouldn't. It might me noted that a real diabetic that produces no insulin is never advised to consume a pure sugar and just eat a regular meal with their slin whether it's humulin R or humalog.

50$ for 10lbs dextrose? is it enriched with diamonds? lol
dextrose costs 1€ per lb here, still abut twice as much as sugar but sugar is only half dextrose. so id just go with dextrose^^

good post on milos there

[pellius]

50$ for 10lbs dextrose? is it enriched with diamonds? lol
dextrose costs 1€ per lb here, still abut twice as much as sugar but sugar is only half dextrose. so id just go with dextrose^^

good post on milos there

I did find a 7 lb bag for 25.99 but it's "unflavored". I'll definitely save myself a few pennies for unflavored sugar lol.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008P5SVVM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687442&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B008GQ2JPO&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0E8G0JJ99K7KEE9NKBHB

[Jizmo]

http://www.amazon.com/Honeyville-Farms-Dextrose-Pound-Bag/dp/B0097FJK46/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1448703898&sr=8-12&keywords=dextrose

there u go, insulin use for the next 20 years covered, lol

you could also just buy candy with glucose syrup as main ingredient. you can get that shit for 1-2$/lb too.
its also better to just eat 5oz of gummi bears during a workout than drinking a disgustingly sweet liquid with 5oz dextrose in it.
and you get those funny looks 

[tatoo]

I never could do the pre workout slin. hated drinking anything other than water during my workouts. always felt a little tired. I do all mine post workout and later in day. like jizmo says, inject and eat. I inject 10iu gh, wait 15 min, shoot, start eating and drinking. biggest meal of the day. seems to work well for me.

[WalterWhite]

Jeff King.  No GH, no insulin, no peptides, and no cycles you need a Phd to understand.

With all the options why chose one that could kill you? 

[Jizmo]

because not everyone wants to look like a walking dick  

in all seriousness, because insulin works and it works fast

[ritch]

Jeff King.  No GH, no insulin, no peptides, and no cycles you need a Phd to understand.

With all the options why chose one that could kill you? 

KILL YOU?
C'mon man. Anyone who lets that happen is dumb beyond belief. You're a smart guy but this whole "insulin will kill you" is soooo been stated and overplayed, it's like anything in this world of chemical assistance.

Respect the gear, it will respect you. Most the time... But hypo symptoms are like no other. You will eat out of instincts or die.

Yes that guy pictured is jacked, did not use slin, but today people wanna explore their options and slin is rather cheap and works well for most.

Kill you...

[WalterWhite]

because not everyone wants to look like a walking dick  

in all seriousness, because insulin works and it works fast

So fast is what it's all about? Let's face it it can also lead to other negative side effects like that bloofy look. I will admit I have old school beliefs but in the end physiques today don't look that great. Also there are kids who read your recommendations and are not as diligent as you.

KILL YOU?
C'mon man. Anyone who lets that happen is dumb beyond belief. You're a smart guy but this whole "insulin will kill you" is soooo been stated and overplayed, it's like anything in this world of chemical assistance.

Respect the gear, it will respect you. Most the time... But hypo symptoms are like no other. You will eat out of instincts or die.

Yes that guy pictured is jacked, did not use slin, but today people wanna explore their options and slin is rather cheap and works well for most.

Kill you...

I am not a fan but that does mean I deserve an .  Most don't respect the gear based on all the cycles I read on many forums so why would they repect slin?  Everything is about grams blah blah and guys look like shit.

Oh and one idiot I know thought the one on the slin pin was one IU of slin and not the ten which it is.

[ritch]

hahaha on the slin pin unit!!! Something ya better know before hand, oh man... Ok, alright, I take back the  even though I just posted one there, lol...

I know you look the part so you have my respect.

[WalterWhite]

hahaha on the slin pin unit!!! Something ya better know before hand, oh man... Ok, alright, I take back the  even though I just posted one there, lol...

I know you look the part so you have my respect.

Ha thanks Rich. That only scratches the surface of the crazy/idiotic things I have seen!

[ritch]

Ha thanks Rich. That only scratches the surface of the crazy/idiotic things I have seen!

they do make the best stories though... I don't really have any. Just seen guys get pinned after training, no shower, the person touching the given spot with his bare unwashed hands then not switching the tip and giving the shot, lol...

Nothing really that crazy in person.

[Jizmo]

Oh and one idiot I know thought the one on the slin pin was one IU of slin and not the ten which it is.

darwinism at its finest. imo people who decide to use slin and do THESE kind of mistakes dont deserve any better.
thats the risk that goes with it, if you dont prepare your stupid ass then suffer the consequences.
these people are the ones giving bodybuilding a bad rep.

they do make the best stories though... I don't really have any. Just seen guys get pinned after training, no shower, the person touching the given spot with his bare unwashed hands then not switching the tip and giving the shot, lol...

Nothing really that crazy in person.

i know that topic is controversial BUT my personal opinion on the topic is that the whole infection thing is one of the way most overblown myths ever!
i often inject in the morning right after getting up, after a night of tren sweats and gym the night before and dont even wipe my skin beforehand.
i usually shower before injections but sometimes i dont, if im in a hurry or whatever...
i mustve already pushed a billion bacteria under my skin through injections and never had an infection.
the only abscesses ive had were from repeated injections into the same spot with gear with too high of a concentration. that shit makes you get abscesses like crazy, not injecting in unsterile environment...

think about the BILLION of bacteria, viruses and pathogens you ingest through your mucous membranes every day.
your body gets rid of bacteria under the skin just like any other bacteria

i also think dirty gear is much more likely to cause infections than "dirty injecting"
maybe ill change my mind when my arm falls off from an infection, but im just being honest here.

[ritch]

haha Jiz, well, the one time I did not follow my usual "take a shower first, rinse hands under alcohol, wipe area and so on, guess who had to go see the doc for some keelflex, lol!?

[Bindare_Dundat]

darwinism at its finest. imo people who decide to use slin and do THESE kind of mistakes dont deserve any better.
thats the risk that goes with it, if you dont prepare your stupid ass then suffer the consequences.
these people are the ones giving bodybuilding a bad rep.
i know that topic is controversial BUT my personal opinion on the topic is that the whole infection thing is one of the way most overblown myths ever!
i often inject in the morning right after getting up, after a night of tren sweats and gym the night before and dont even wipe my skin beforehand.
i usually shower before injections but sometimes i dont, if im in a hurry or whatever...
i mustve already pushed a billion bacteria under my skin through injections and never had an infection.
the only abscesses ive had were from repeated injections into the same spot with gear with too high of a concentration. that shit makes you get abscesses like crazy, not injecting in unsterile environment...

think about the BILLION of bacteria, viruses and pathogens you ingest through your mucous membranes every day.
your body gets rid of bacteria under the skin just like any other bacteria

i also think dirty gear is much more likely to cause infections than "dirty injecting"
maybe ill change my mind when my arm falls off from an infection, but im just being honest here.

Totally agree with this. Not to say that means you shouldn't take normal precautions but the constant talk of abscesses/infections isn't as common as one would be led to believe.

[ritch]

I was scared shitless thinking my arm had to be cut off, hahaha...

[WalterWhite]

I was scared shitless thinking my arm had to be cut off, hahaha...

I doubt it was even close to what Bostin had. Looked like flesh eating disease!

Now that's swole!

[herraisland]

Do you feel right away effects of slin ? It's my 3 or 4 day I'm up to 12iu and 10iu per day. Haven't got any sign of hypo. Today I used 12iu preworkout and drank protein and oats right after, then 15min later I drank over the 1hour workout 70gr of dextrose and post workout protein and oats. I have never feel tiredness or no special pump. Is it me who have high tolerance or pen not working(hardly doubt it. Always in the fridge).