Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Stavios on September 14, 2007, 08:32:25 AM
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You should take a look Adonis, maybe you would be less skinny ;)
http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318 (http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318)
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great link.
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you have to register.
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you have to register.
it takes 30 seconds to do so, you sexy beast
it's worth it 8)
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This is kind of related, but...the other day I was talking to a friend who owns two horses. I asked her how horses (and cows) can eat nothing but stray, hay, grass, and grain and yet they can pack on enormous amounts of lean muscle, whereas humans have to eat mainly animal protein to pack on the mass. She said that horses are "ruminids"(sp?) and have special enzymes, etc. that enable them to convert grass to protein that we humans don't have. Interesting stuff.
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it takes 30 seconds to do so, you sexy beast
it's worth it 8)
no thanks...just copy the article and post it....we are tired of being forced to register to view content
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no thanks...just copy the article and post it....we are tired of being forced to register to view content
I prefer not to
I am not sure that Milos pays for a website with the intention that people will copy it somewhere else
we already post a lot of his pictures here
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This is kind of related, but...the other day I was talking to a friend who owns two horses. I asked her how horses (and cows) can eat nothing but stray, hay, grass, and grain and yet they can pack on enormous amounts of lean muscle, whereas humans have to eat mainly animal protein to pack on the mass. She said that horses are "ruminids"(sp?) and have special enzymes, etc. that enable them to convert grass to protein that we humans don't have. Interesting stuff.
Daddywaddy, smokes grass all day and he is getting huge.
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You should take a look Adonis, maybe you would be less skinny ;)
http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318 (http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318)
You'd be smaller than Adonis without your juice. Plus, you have to be a member on that board to read it. hope that helps.
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not the point
Adonis had much more muscle when he was a fat pig and was eating a lot of proteins
that's a fact
he is delusional about it and say he didn't lose an ounce of muscle in the process but we both know that he lost at least 10 pounds of muscle and he wasn't even "shredded" for the mr.getbig
OF COURSE, now he is a couple of pounds heavier but with munzer-like conditionning and the pics are coming soon ( ;) ;) ;))
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Milos is drugged out of his mind.
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high protein diets benefitial for muscle building wow thats a shocker ::)
bodybuilders have only known it for 100 years ....
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SO CONCLUSION, Training 2 times a day = more growth
and also eating 2g of protein per pounds of bodyweight per day = more growth too
of course, the guy who stay the same size every year will say that is ain't true 8)
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high protein diets benefitial for muscle building wow thats a shocker ::)
bodybuilders have only known it for 100 years ....
It is a shocker ! for some people here we can gain muscle on an ALL BEER diet ::)
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SO CONCLUSION, Training 2 times a day = more growth and also eating 2g of protein per
I find this statement a little suspect......
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I find this statement a little suspect......
yeah me to. many would disagree on that
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whats suspect about it
how can you not train twice a day? what are you fucking amateurs?
get with the program
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My honest opinion is that it would only benefit the athlete who uses insulin. Instead of one direct feed to the muscles, you would have 2. Therefore, enhancing recovery signifigantly resulting in more growth. But for the average joe, twice a day would result in overtraining. As for the protein its common sense. P=builder
Carb&fat= energy
More p= more size
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high protein diets benefitial for muscle building wow thats a shocker ::)
bodybuilders have only known it for 100 years ....
Sorry to break it to you buddy but protien doesn't build muscle. According to my nutrition class fats and carbs are more responsible for muscle growth the protien.
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My honest opinion is that it would only benefit the athlete who uses insulin. Instead of one direct feed to the muscles, you would have 2. Therefore, enhancing recovery signifigantly resulting in more growth. But for the average joe, twice a day would result in overtraining. As for the protein its common sense. P=builder
Carb&fat= energy
More p= more size
More protien does not equal more size. Also training twice a day is not overtraining. Overtraining is a myth.
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it takes 30 seconds to do so, you sexy beast
it's worth it 8)
30 seconds to sign up, 3 days for approval. Just copy and paste it please i forgot my password.
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ive told you i train twice a day
what is there left to discuss?
you think i would do that if it wasnt superior? what are you fucking morons?
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ummm...I think that I need to point that Milos' theories might not apply to naturals..
2G per lb is sure way to get fat and alway hungry
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explain how overtraining is a myth? Explain how eating more protein wouldnt result in more size?
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you need to define overtrain first
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When Dorian won the British title he was training 3 days a week.
If you train hard enough thats all you need.
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and he missed out 4 days when he could've been training
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and he missed out 4 days when he could've been training
You grow outside of the gym.... More days out of the gym = more days of growth.
Pro's these days should be taking notes.
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You grow outside of the gym.... More days out of the gym = more days of growth.
Pro's these days should be taking notes.
i rather hit my legs 100 times a year than 50
23 hours a day outside of the gym, thats plenty of rest right there
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if training 2 times a day is better, why not 3? How bout 4...6? Why take time to recover at all?
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i still dont know what works better for me.
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i still dont know what works better for me.
maybe you don't like knowing what's better for you?
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if training 2 times a day is better, why not 3? How bout 4...6? Why take time to recover at all?
and if once a day is better, why not once a week or once a month?
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maybe you don't like knowing what's better for you?
lol
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protein assimilation and synthesis is greatly increased when you are on steroids, so obviously you are able to consume more and get more results. If you take in 400g like Milos does, but without drugs, most of that will go to waste, or even turn to fat if you're overeating.
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SO CONCLUSION, Training 2 times a day = more growth
and also eating 2g of protein per pounds of bodyweight per day = more growth too
of course, the guy who stay the same size every year will say that is ain't true 8)
There is evidence that training twice every other day is better than training once every day.
Try that.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=15361516&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
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There is evidence that training twice every other day is better than training once every day.
Try that.
Yea but you are much more likely to pick up injuries that will set you back. Not worth weight training twice a day.
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Yea but you are much more likely to pick up injuries that will set you back. Not worth weight training twice a day.
why is that
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protein assimilation and synthesis is greatly increased when you are on steroids, so obviously you are able to consume more and get more results. If you take in 400g like Milos does, but without drugs, most of that will go to waste, or even turn to fat if you're overeating.
better to overdo it than underdo it. if you get fatter of it then just cut down on the carbs and fat..
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why is that
overuse of joints - tendinitis or bone spur, or ligament tear.
dehydration or lactic acid build from first workout will increase chance of muscle tears.
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Ah, I wish I knew now what I knew then...
For Years I was the guy that was OBSESSED with protein consumption. Every meal had to have a minimum of 40 grams. I used to have protein shakes religiously upon waking up, post work out and before bed. I stopped this about 2 years ago and have not lost a single pound of muscle...
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overuse of joints - tendinitis or bone spur, or ligament tear.
dehydration or lactic acid build from first workout will increase chance of muscle tears.
so let's say you do chest at noon and come back and do shoulders in the evening, you say that would enhance risk of injury compared to do both muscle groups at noon?
not very likely.
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Ah, I wish I knew now what I knew then...
For Years I was the guy that was OBSESSED with protein consumption. Every meal had to have a minimum of 40 grams. I used to have protein shakes religiously upon waking up, post work out and before bed. I stopped this about 2 years ago and have not lost a single pound of muscle...
Yes, people are paranoid and naive about protein. They think they will shrink if they don't get what Muscletech recommends. ::)
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Yes, people are paranoid and naive about protein. They think they will shrink if they don't get what Muscletech recommends. ::)
I think if you're juiced then your body can synthesize A LOT more than us mortals...oh well, fuck 'em
ITS MARGARITA TIME!
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i didnt log on to milos site
what amount of protein are we talking about here?
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i didnt log on to milos site
what amount of protein are we talking about here?
9000 grams.
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i didnt log on to milos site
what amount of protein are we talking about here?
2g/lb bodyweight I think
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when i was working in the meat industry (kill floor, meat room) I was eating steak 3-4 times a day, sometimes raw. The amount of protein i was taking in was probably around 400g to 500g per day easily. The 3 years i worked there i was steady bodyweight about 290-300 and all my workouts felt like they were fueled by satan. Now im at about half that amount of protein and pretty much in the same workout routine and im steady at about 260....and my workouts lack the same awesomeness that they had when i was gorging on red meat. Unfortunately gout prevents me from following that consumption pattern again but If i could keep that kind of intake up I would do it in a second.
also i would think that with the extra protein and creatine from all the red meat recovery times were faster also and you could get away with 2x a day in the gym better than if youre slacking on the protein.
More protein > less protein
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explain how overtraining is a myth? Explain how eating more protein wouldnt result in more size?
Simple. Eating more protien then the body needs will just make it stored as fat. The body only need so much protien. Putting more gas in a gas isn't going to make it go faster. When you flip over the back of a box to see the nutrition facts there is a reason why protien is down at the bottom. It is because you don't need as much of it.
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when i was working in the meat industry (kill floor, meat room) I was eating steak 3-4 times a day, sometimes raw. The amount of protein i was taking in was probably around 400g to 500g per day easily. The 3 years i worked there i was steady bodyweight about 290-300 and all my workouts felt like they were fueled by satan. Now im at about half that amount of protein and pretty much in the same workout routine and im steady at about 260....and my workouts lack the same awesomeness that they had when i was gorging on red meat. Unfortunately gout prevents me from following that consumption pattern again but If i could keep that kind of intake up I would do it in a second.
also i would think that with the extra protein and creatine from all the red meat recovery times were faster also and you could get away with 2x a day in the gym better than if youre slacking on the protein.
More protein > less protein
High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.
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High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.
that association is made with the genaral public. not bodybuilders.
its possible to maintain a high protein intake without getting obese. just gotta keep moderation on the carbs and fat.
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High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.
Damn.... i'm screwed.... ;D
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High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.
C'mon, LB. You know that is not true. Carbs are what is killing Americans (and Canadians!).
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Now say your getting enough, perhaps too much protein... in addition taking aminos- would they contribute to these "risks" as well? If indeed there legit?
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SO CONCLUSION, Training 2 times a day = more growth
and also eating 2g of protein per pounds of bodyweight per day = more growth too
of course, the guy who stay the same size every year will say that is ain't true 8)
im not sure about a natural training twice a day.
but training a body part twice a week IS beneficial...even for a natural, but only if you spread it out properly
its pretty simple...you stimulate the muscles twice a week instead of one, and given enough food and rest
thats equals more growth
not rocket science
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C'mon, LB. You know that is not true. Carbs are what is killing Americans (and Canadians!).
No carbs are not the problem. Over eating is the problem. Carbs are no the culprit and the reason i say protien is associated with obesity is because it comes from animal sources which has saturated fats.
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Well take tri's for example- say you hit arms Sunday and then Chest and Shoulders on two other seperate days. Would that count seeing as your indirectly working them? Because if you throw in Isolated tri's again thats hitting them 4 time in seven days technically ???
I swear, I grew the best when I trained 4 days on 3 days off... But i don't have the energy to do that anymore... Plus, i think i tend to over train :-\
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No carbs are not the problem. Over eating is the problem. Carbs are no the culprit and the reason i say protien is associated with obesity is because it comes from animal sources which has saturated fats.
OK Fair enough. Good point. But when people overeat, it is usually with excess carbs. Hard to overeat with steaks, but easy to with the 2L sodas, etc.
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OK Fair enough. Good point. But when people overeat, it is usually with excess carbs. Hard to overeat with steaks, but easy to with the 2L sodas, etc.
Wrong. A study was done on fat storage and overeating and it was found that overeating on carbs didn't not result in fat gain as it did with protien in fat. You guys who bodybuild really should look into taking a nutrition class. There is so much bull floating around it is ridiculous.
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Well take tri's for example- say you hit arms Sunday and then Chest and Shoulders on two other seperate days. Would that count seeing as your indirectly working them? Because if you throw in Isolated tri's again thats hitting them 4 time in seven days technically ???
I swear, I grew the best when I trained 4 days on 3 days off... But i don't have the energy to do that anymore... Plus, i think i tend to over train :-\
well what i used to do was train chest and tris together on mondays...and then chest and shoulders again on friday (chest was lagging), and my chest blew up. Tris weren't effected because i worked them once a week...and they completely fresh for Fridays chest workout.
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Same here I did chest and bi's, back-tri's, legs, then shoulders and chest... My chest grew a lot... but i couldn't image hitting tri's full bore again in that week... Well, i could as far as wanting to but I would think it'd be too much.
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No carbs are not the problem. Over eating is the problem. Carbs are no the culprit and the reason i say protien is associated with obesity is because it comes from animal sources which has saturated fats.
I disagree. Dr's will put a diabetic on a low carb diet in order to stabilize blood sugar levels. Carbs are not needed at all. Every time you eat carbs there is a blood sugar reaction and 9 x out of 10 the carbs are stored as bodyfat (non bber). Carbs + sugar are the main reasons for obesity, there is an addiction associated with them. You wont get fat eating meat, and if you cut carbs alltogether your body will use the fat as energy (atkins/keto). Carbs are the enemy for an overweight person, not beef, chicken etc. You neglected to say how you can grow without protein. Protein= muscle bottom line, has been that way since the day of early man (who survived off of protein, plants, and marrow/fat, not carbs). Protein powders and leaner meats make it so you can hit insane amounts without excessive calories, but calories are whats needed for growth. calories from tons of protein.
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I disagree. Dr's will put a diabetic on a low carb diet in order to stabilize blood sugar levels. Carbs are not needed at all. Every time you eat carbs there is a blood sugar reaction and 9 x out of 10 the carbs are stored as bodyfat (non bber). Carbs + sugar are the main reasons for obesity, there is an addiction associated with them. You wont get fat eating meat, and if you cut carbs alltogether your body will use the fat as energy (atkins/keto). Carbs are the enemy for an overweight person, not beef, chicken etc. You neglected to say how you can grow without protein. Protein= muscle bottom line, has been that way since the day of early man (who survived off of protein, plants, and marrow/fat, not carbs). Protein powders and leaner meats make it so you can hit insane amounts without excessive calories, but calories are whats needed for growth. calories from tons of protein.
Carbs are needed. The brain runs on glucose and ONLY glucose. Nothing else. You cannot get glucose from fat. With out carbohydrates you would die.
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Every time you eat carbs there is a blood sugar reaction and 9 x out of 10 the carbs are stored as bodyfat (non bber).
Carbs do not turn to fat except under extreme circumstances.
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Wrong. A study was done on fat storage and overeating and it was found that overeating on carbs didn't not result in fat gain as it did with protien in fat. You guys who bodybuild really should look into taking a nutrition class. There is so much bull floating around it is ridiculous.
Ok. Then here is where I disagree with you, LB. 'A study' is a bit vague, but I would bet my last dollar (not my house deed like TA) that America's problem with obesity is due to both a lack of exercise (sorry for the caveat) and too many carbs( protein not protien) for the simple reason that carbs are so more readily produced and less expensive than protein. The creation of protein is very labour/capital costly; carbs are not. :D
Sorry: Supply has no bearing on results. :-\
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Carbs are needed. The brain runs on glucose and ONLY glucose. Nothing else. You cannot get glucose from fat. With out carbohydrates you would die.
One word: gluconeogenesis. So you are both right and wrong. Carbs from food is not needed.
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With out carbohydrates you would die.
haha no no no ..... it would go into ketosis and run off of fat as its main source of fuel. Given enough fat it would run more efficiently, since its new fuel (fat) is an unlimited source. Without carbs you would no longer get cravings ( bs is stable) and you would loose fat
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Wrong. A study was done on fat storage and overeating and it was found that overeating on carbs didn't not result in fat gain as it did with protien in fat. You guys who bodybuild really should look into taking a nutrition class. There is so much bull floating around it is ridiculous.
Oh brother, wtf is a nutrition class going to tell anyone? What works for 98% of the general public who doesn't even work out? That steroids are a cholesterol and that insulin is only for Diabetics? Come on get your head out of the clouds. The US RDA is a joke. You have to know your own body and decide what works best for you. Plus the amount of protein that you consume while you are anabolic is obviously going to be higher since your body will metabolize it vs storing it, or passing it as waste.
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One word: gluconeogenesis. So you are both right and wrong. Carbs from food is not needed.
The brain has to have carbs. You get carbs from food. You cannot live off of glucogenesis for ever. Only short periods of time.
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haha no no no ..... it would go into ketosis and run off of fat as its main source of fuel. Given enough fat it would run more efficiently, since its new fuel (fat) is an unlimited source. Without carbs you would no longer get cravings ( bs is stable) and you would loose fat
Did you not read what i just said? The brain only uses some ketones. It cannot run soley off of ketones. The brain HAS to have carbs.
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haha no no no ..... it would go into ketosis and run off of fat as its main source of fuel. Given enough fat it would run more efficiently, since its new fuel (fat) is an unlimited source. Without carbs you would no longer get cravings ( bs is stable) and you would loose weight.
True. Carbs are the one macro you can live without (Inuits, S. Pac. Islanders, etc) , but your lifestyle will be will be compromised.
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The brain has to have carbs. You get carbs from food. You cannot live off of glucogenesis for ever. Only short periods of time.
Why would gluconeogenesis turn off? You're wrong here. Dietary carbohydrate is not essential for survival.
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van,
Would carbs from plant/ veggies suffice the needs for glucogenesis?
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Oh brother, wtf is a nutrition class going to tell anyone? What works for 98% of the general public who doesn't even work out? That steroids are a cholesterol and that insulin is only for Diabetics? Come on get your head out of the clouds. The US RDA is a joke. You have to know your own body and decide what works best for you. Plus the amount of protein that you consume while you are anabolic is obviously going to be higher since your body will metabolize it vs storing it, or passing it as waste.
Yeah you're right. Bodybuilders are different. We aren't human.
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Carbs are needed. The brain runs on glucose and ONLY glucose. Nothing else. You cannot get glucose from fat. With out carbohydrates you would die.
Absolutley not true.
You do not need to consume any carbs at all. The liver will produce the minimal amount of glucose the body requires by converting it from protein (glucogenesis). Epileptic children are often put on ketogenic (no carb) diets and do great on it for years. Many populations throughout history have lived on a no carb diet (Eskimos and the Massai are two recent examples) and thrived. Then look at the diets of pre-historic man: he hunted (meat and fat) and gathered green plants. If he was lucky he ran across tree nuts and very occasionally tart fruit. He ate no grain and few carbohydrates.
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Why would gluconeogenesis turn off? You're wrong here. Dietary carbohydrate is not essential for survival.
I never said it did shut off but its production of glucose from precursors of glucose. Now that i think about it i take that back though. You could live off a diet of pure protien in theory.
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Did you not read what i just said? The brain only uses some ketones. It cannot run soley off of ketones. The brain HAS to have carbs.
Explain that to Palumbo and everyone else following his ketogenic diet. Hell, even Arnold Jr on here has followed that diet and he's still alive and kickin
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van,
Would carbs from plant/ veggies suffice the needs for glucogenesis?
Gluconeogenesis refers to aminos and glycerol from fats converting to glucose.
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Hell, even Arnold Jr on here has followed that diet and he's still alive and kickin
Unfortunately.
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Explain that to Palumbo and everyone else following his ketogenic diet. Hell, even Arnold Jr on here has followed that diet and he's still alive and kickin
I already corrected myself. Regardless, why would you want to live without carbs. They are protien sparing.
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I already corrected myself. Regardless, why would you want to live without carbs. They are protien sparing.
As a bodybuilder, you wouldn't. Carbs as a fuel source work better for supporting the energy requirements of a bodybuilding-type workout than fats, and (at least for me personally) it's tough to adapt mentally to ketosis and be 100%. That said, I think a lot of bodybuilders and more of the mainstream WAY overdo the carbs. I limit my carbs to just enough to fuel my workouts and keep me out of ketosis, and get the rest of my calories from protein and fat.
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As a bodybuilder, you wouldn't. Carbs as a fuel source work better for supporting the energy requirements of a bodybuilding-type workout than fats, and (at least for me personally) it's tough to adapt mentally to ketosis and be 100%. That said, I think a lot of bodybuilders and more of the mainstream WAY overdo the carbs. I limit my carbs to just enough to fuel my workouts and keep me out of ketosis, and get the rest of my calories from protein and fat.
I know thats what im saying. Why use a ketogenic diet. That is like carrying bricks to a work site one by one when you can just use a wheel barrel. It seems rather pointless. They are essential for health, plus the fiber detoxifies the liver. Fiber reduces the risk for cancer.
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Palumbo is a fool. His theories on why his diet is superior are ridiculous.
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Essecial Fats ;)
Essecial Aminoacids ;)
Have you ever heard of Essecial Carbs ???
Yeah actually. It is called fiber.
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Essecial Fats ;)
Essecial Aminoacids ;)
Have you ever heard of Essecial Carbs ???
Spell check? Have you heard of this?
Edit: If you are using Insulin....Carbs are essential.
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I know thats what im saying. Why use a ketogenic diet. That is like carrying bricks to a work site one by one when you can just use a wheel barrel. It seems rather pointless. They are essential for health, plus the fiber detoxifies the liver. Fiber reduces the risk for cancer.
To use your analogy, many bodybuilders don't use a wheel barrel, they use a dumptruck (and then wonder why they're fat and/or feel like shit). IMO, sugars should all but be eliminated (except PWO), and grains and grain products should be severely limited and used intelligently, not as a staple with every meal.
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Essential Fats ;)
Essential Aminoacids ;)
Have you ever heard of Essential carbs ???
better now!!!
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eating massive amounts of protein (1.5g + p/lbs bw) is a waste and just expensive energy.
1-1.25 is enough. maybe 1.5 if your dieting hard..(1.5 when dieting is probably overdoing it too).
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Essential Fats ;)
Essential Aminoacids ;)
Have you ever heard of Essential carbs ???
better now!!!
See, now was that so hard? Regarding the Essential carbs, If you are using insulin Carbs are Essential. For dieting there are too many schools of thought and the arguments could go on forever..... But for building muscle, you do need carbs.
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See, now was that so hard? Regarding the Essential carbs, If you are using insulin Carbs are Essential. For dieting there are too many schools of thought and the arguments could go on forever..... But for building muscle, you do need carbs.
Most of us here are not insulin users.
You're right about carbs being necessary for good muscle growth, but the high amounts used my most bodybuilders? Not likely (unless, as you said, they're using 'slin).
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See, now was that so hard? Regarding the Essential carbs, If you are using insulin Carbs are Essential. For dieting there are too many schools of thought and the arguments could go on forever..... But for building muscle, you do need carbs.
I agree to build muscle carbs are necessary...but carbs should be introduced during specific times of the day and not in excess as the majority of people trying to gain muscle exaggerate in the consuption of carbs gain only fat from it.
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I already corrected myself. Regardless, why would you want to live without carbs. They are protien sparing.
OK. What are you getting your panties in a twist about, then!?'
/and it's protein
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I agree to build muscle carbs are necessary...but carbs should be introduced during specific times of the day and not in excess as the majority of people trying to gain muscle exaggerate in the consuption of carbs gain only fat from it.
Exactly.
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The only carbs i consume are fruit/vegetables, ezekiel bread and oatmeal. Occasionally pasta for dinner. Ezekiel bread is very, very good for you-6-7 whole grains-no flour-fiber and a complete protein. Also sometimes have 6 grain organic waffles for breakfast instead of oatmeal. Avoid high fructose corn syrup like the plague.
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The only carbs i consume are fruit/vegetables, ezekiel bread and oatmeal. Occasionally pasta for dinner. Ezekiel bread is very, very good for you-6-7 whole grains-no flour-fiber and a complete protein. Also sometimes have 6 grain oprgain waffles for brewakfast instead of oatmeal. Avoid high fructose corn syrup like the plague.
fruits are high in fructose to. high gi
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okay- question on carbs here. Thanks to everyone that talked about waxie maize on here, becuase i luv it... Now, i drink mine before and during my working... should i be doing it another way???
Thx
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If you are comparing the natural sugars found in fresh fruit to man-made high fructose corn syrup-you are a MORON. Hope this helps. ;D
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if training 2 times a day is better, why not 3? How bout 4...6? Why take time to recover at all?
FANTASTIC RESPONSE. AND THE SAME THAT I SAY.
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im not sure about a natural training twice a day.
but training a body part twice a week IS beneficial...even for a natural, but only if you spread it out properly
its pretty simple...you stimulate the muscles twice a week instead of one, and given enough food and rest
thats equals more growth
not rocket science
You make conclusions with no reasoning or science behind them. what is ur proof of this? ur science? ur backing?
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If you are comparing the natural sugars found in fresh fruit to man-made high fructose corn syrup-you are a MORON. Hope this helps. ;D
Agree. ::)
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I'm training once a day ,eating ,protein ,carbs and fat , :)
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fruits are high in fructose to. high gi
Fructose is low in GI.....
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Very cool discussion guys.
I changed to a very low carbohydrate diet in May of 2007. I am 5'9" and weighed 208 pounds. I didn't look "obese" but I was definitely soft. As I write this I am now 185 pounds and feel great. I dropped most of the obvious carbs from my diet, including bread, juices, potatoes, rice, etc. I modelled this after the Paleo Diet. I read a lot about it and it made sense. I also dropped milk from my diet, and stick to water.
My typical day starts with a few eggs/bacon and a piece of fruit for breakfast. I eat a lunch consisting of some sort of meat, including beef, fish or chicken, and a piece of fruit or two. Snacks are nuts, grapes, etc. I have them whenever I feel the urge.
For dinner - meat with vegetables like green beans, peas, etc. And I indulge in an unsweetened protein shake, mixed with water, in the evening.
I have never felt better. My poundages for exercises have not dropped on ounce, and in fact some have increased significantly. I have veins popping up in my upper torso and legs that I thought never existed, lol.
I think the need for carbohydrates in our diet is vastly over rated. I am also a competitive cyclist, and was brought up on the notion that we had to carb up all the time, take carb replacement drinks during long rides or races, and carb up immediately afterwards. If you didn't, you would "hit the wall" after about 1.5-2 hrs.
That was true, when I had a high carbohydrate diet. Not so with a low carb diet. This summer I raced in quite a few 50 mile events, taking 2-2.25 hours. I did them on nothing but water. No "wall" was found!
Any downside to eating like this? Well you have to work harder to get the right foods in restaurants and in convenience stores, since they are all sugar and starch crazy. And my clothes are all too big now!
And finally, you get drunk very fast when you eat low carb. Apparently alcohol screws up the biochemistry of low carb diets. I stop at one beer every once in a while now.
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You should take a look Adonis, maybe you would be less skinny ;)
http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318 (http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318)
no clicky
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fruits are high in fructose to. high gi
Fructose is like a 28 on the glycemic index.
Plus most fruit contains quite a bit of fiber.
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High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.
well, by the body mass index, most weightlifters are considered morbidly obese...its a relative term.
As far as health risks, gout sucks. Totally manageable by increasing fiber and water intake. My cholesterol was usually betweeen 3-4 when i was tested, totally normal, normal blood pressure, 65-70 resting heart rate most of the time...aside from the gout flare ups i had no other health issues when eating that much clean protein from solid food sources. I also saved a lot of money by not having to supplement my extra protein with powders and drinks. Try eating that much red meat for a while, after a few months you'll feel like superman in the gym.
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Fructose is like a 28 on the glycemic index.
Plus most fruit contains quite a bit of fiber.
Fructose is often recommended for, and consumed by, people with diabetes mellitus or hypoglycemia, because it has a very low glycemic index (GI) relative to cane sugar (sucrose). However, this benefit is tempered by concern that fructose may have an adverse effect on plasma lipid and uric acid levels, and the resulting higher blood levels of fructose can be damaging to proteins (see below). The low GI is due to the unique and lengthy metabolic pathway of fructose, which involves phosphorylation and a multi-step enzymatic process in the liver. See health effects and glycation for further information.
Fructose is also used as a substitute for sucralose which i believe is what splenda is.
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and he missed out 4 days when he could've been training
Very true Bluto
I think we are the only real men here who are not affraid of training like it should: AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE 8)
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Very cool discussion guys.
I changed to a very low carbohydrate diet in May of 2007. I am 5'9" and weighed 208 pounds. I didn't look "obese" but I was definitely soft. As I write this I am now 185 pounds and feel great. I dropped most of the obvious carbs from my diet, including bread, juices, potatoes, rice, etc. I modelled this after the Paleo Diet. I read a lot about it and it made sense. I also dropped milk from my diet, and stick to water.
My typical day starts with a few eggs/bacon and a piece of fruit for breakfast. I eat a lunch consisting of some sort of meat, including beef, fish or chicken, and a piece of fruit or two. Snacks are nuts, grapes, etc. I have them whenever I feel the urge.
For dinner - meat with vegetables like green beans, peas, etc. And I indulge in an unsweetened protein shake, mixed with water, in the evening.
I have never felt better. My poundages for exercises have not dropped on ounce, and in fact some have increased significantly. I have veins popping up in my upper torso and legs that I thought never existed, lol.
I think the need for carbohydrates in our diet is vastly over rated. I am also a competitive cyclist, and was brought up on the notion that we had to carb up all the time, take carb replacement drinks during long rides or races, and carb up immediately afterwards. If you didn't, you would "hit the wall" after about 1.5-2 hrs.
That was true, when I had a high carbohydrate diet. Not so with a low carb diet. This summer I raced in quite a few 50 mile events, taking 2-2.25 hours. I did them on nothing but water. No "wall" was found!
Any downside to eating like this? Well you have to work harder to get the right foods in restaurants and in convenience stores, since they are all sugar and starch crazy. And my clothes are all too big now!
And finally, you get drunk very fast when you eat low carb. Apparently alcohol screws up the biochemistry of low carb diets. I stop at one beer every once in a while now.
This type of diet can only be followed for a certain amount time before it starts taking it's toll on your system.
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You should take a look Adonis, maybe you would be less skinny ;)
http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318 (http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318)
As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.
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You make conclusions with no reasoning or science behind them. what is ur proof of this? ur science? ur backing?
no reasoning behind it?
put guy 1 at training legs once a week.
put guy 2 at training legs twice a week.
after one year guy 1 will have trained his legs 50 times.
and guy 2 will have trained legs 100 times.
assuming guy 2 will get enough rest to fully recover, avoid overtraining etc he should get better result due to TWICE as much training.
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Very cool discussion guys.
but water. No "wall" was found!
Any downside to eating like this? Well you have to work harder to get the right foods in restaurants and in convenience stores, since they are all sugar and starch crazy. And my clothes are all too big now!
And finally, you get drunk very fast when you eat low carb. Apparently alcohol screws up the biochemistry of low carb diets. I stop at one beer every once in a while now.
I was on your side till that last statement. ::) What? Are you scared of a buzz?
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what do you guys take for meals on a low carb diet? its the bread and oats that make me feel full, i hate feeling hungry all day going without them and choosing for protein only things.
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As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.
I disagree !
for myself at least, if I don't eat AT LEAST 2g per pound of bodyweight I won't gain an ounce of muscle
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As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.
Agree, 500g is excessive, unless of course you weigh 250, then 500 seems about right. 1.5 to 2g per pound of YOUR OWN BW is right. Just eating 500 if you're a 180lb kid trying to bulk isn't gonna do you any good, shoot for 360 and increase your protein as you grow.
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I eat between 450-500g per day
and I weight only 220-225
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I eat between 450-500g per day
and I weight only 220-225
You're body CANNOT assimilate that much.
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I eat between 450-500g per day
and I weight only 220-225
Seems about right then. If your on hormones.
You're body CANNOT assimilate that much.
Can you link the controlled study that proves this? Plus I think most would rather be a bit over than a bit under.
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You're body CANNOT assimilate that much.
It can if his carbs are extremely low. If they aren't its just getting stored as fat.
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It can if his carbs are extremely low. If they aren't its just getting stored as fat.
carbs are about 500gr per day
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It can if his carbs are extremely low. If they aren't its just getting stored as fat.
It can assimilate the protein and carbs if your body is in an anabolic state. That is why BB and Steroids go hand and hand.
Do people actually believe that you will grow if just taking steroids alone? Taking steroids without increasing your protein is like throwing your money away. Take a Gram of test per week with your normal diet and do the same doubling the protein and see what works better.
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It can assimilate the protein and carbs if your body is in an anabolic state. That is why BB and Steroids go hand and hand.
Do people actually believe that you will grow if just taking steroids alone? Taking steroids without increasing your protein is like throwing your money away. Take a Gram of test per week with your normal diet and do the same doubling the protein and see what works better.
wtf no it doesn't. That would be like 40 pounds gained from one cycle.
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It can assimilate the protein and carbs if your body is in an anabolic state. That is why BB and Steroids go hand and hand.
Do people actually believe that you will grow if just taking steroids alone? Taking steroids without increasing your protein is like throwing your money away. Take a Gram of test per week with your normal diet and do the same doubling the protein and see what works better.
Very true Dballn
if I juice eating the same as when I don't take anything, it's pretty obvious that I won't gain additionnal muscle mass
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Very true Dballn
if I juice eating the same as when I don't take anything, it's pretty obvious that I won't gain additionnal muscle mass
Lie. You can gain muscle in a calorie defecit with juice. Ask milos. He agrees with me.
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As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.
No - I am not referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear...I am referring to bodybuilder who wants to put serious muscle in the shortest possible time (off course -providing his training is PRODUCTIVE and STIMULATING...)
I do not have a time to write about it...and that's why I organized seminar (free seminar that is...)
I would be MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT AGAIN (Ron...are you listening?) - for all bodybuilding fans...
What's more - I will be available at my KNS booth at the Olympia...and indeed I plan to have little seminars EVERY DAY while at the Olympia expo...
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wtf no it doesn't. That would be like 40 pounds gained from one cycle.
Yes it can. Sorry to break it to ya, but your young and you don't even weigh 200 yet. Hit a real cycle and see for yourself. It's easy to be an armchair Mr. O. Getting out there and doing it is a completely different ballgame. You have to break out of the lightweights first. Not dissing you man, you looked good for your show, but with some hormones, more carbs you'll grow a lot faster and be less bitter.
Lie. You can gain muscle in a calorie defecit with juice. Ask milos. He agrees with me.
You will gain more muscle if not in a calorie deficit. Man you can't have abs all year long and make any real progress. Deplete youself and then grow. Are you afraid that you won't see your abs again. Do you not have any faith in yourself?
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Yes it can. Sorry to break it to ya, but your young and you don't even weigh 200 yet. Hit a real cycle and see for yourself. It's easy to be an armchair Mr. O. Getting out there and doing it is a completely different ballgame. You have to break out of the lightweights first. Not dissing you man, you looked good for your show, but with some hormones, more carbs you'll grow a lot faster and be less bitter.
You will gain more muscle if not in a calorie deficit. Man you can't have abs all year long and make any real progress. Deplete youself and then grow. Are you afraid that you won't see your abs again. Do you not have any faith in yourself?
Hahah i don't know what the hell you are talking about. I have 30 pounds of fat on me right now. It is basic nutrition. You are basing your arguments on gym science that are half truths. Throwing more food at you doesnt mean more muscle. Throwing more drugs into your system doesn't mean more muscle. It takes YEARS to get big like that. There are no short cuts. I am a light weight because ive been bodybuilding for 2 years. Those other guys have been working out for 15+.
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Yes it can. Sorry to break it to ya, but your young and you don't even weigh 200 yet. Hit a real cycle and see for yourself. It's easy to be an armchair Mr. O. Getting out there and doing it is a completely different ballgame. You have to break out of the lightweights first. Not dissing you man, you looked good for your show, but with some hormones, more carbs you'll grow a lot faster and be less bitter.
You will gain more muscle if not in a calorie deficit. Man you can't have abs all year long and make any real progress. Deplete youself and then grow. Are you afraid that you won't see your abs again. Do you not have any faith in yourself?
Dballn, how fat do you like to be while gaining mass
I found that at over 12%, I start gaining more and more fat and less muscle mass than when I am leaner
right now I still see my abs a little and my gains are pretty good this month
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No - I am not referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear...I am referring to bodybuilder who wants to put serious muscle in the shortest possible time (off course -providing his training is PRODUCTIVE and STIMULATING...)
I do not have a time to write about it...and that's why I organized seminar (free seminar that is...)
I would be MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT AGAIN (Ron...are you listening?) - for all bodybuilding fans...
What's more - I will be available at my KNS booth at the Olympia...and indeed I plan to have little seminars EVERY DAY while at the Olympia expo...
eating 500g of protein is a waste of time. its expensive energy....the protein can be used, it doesnt just magically disappear..but the body only needs 1-1.25 protein per lbs bw. so what your doing is that your wasting your money.
i think its time for slaveboy to write an article about all this bullshit and set some things straight.
(also its a myth that the body can only assimilate so and so much..it assimilates everything..the real question is if it used to grow the muscles or not...so if you eat 500g protein..majority of that will be oxidized as expensive energy.
if your 200lbs you need to eat about 200g of protein. (max 250)
but if your 200lbs and go and eat 500g of protein..everything will be assimilated but less than half will be used for rebuilding muscles and other needed things. the rest will be used as energy! better to cut down the protein from 500 to 200 and replace thoses calorie with cheaper carbs!
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I was on your side till that last statement. ::) What? Are you scared of a buzz?
LOL. No, its not the buzz part. You actually feel sleepy sick. Not anything like a buzz.
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Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...
IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...
Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...
Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}
and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)
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thanks for participating Milos
your opinion is greatly appreciated as usual 8)
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Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...
IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...
Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...
Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}
and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)
Protien is used for repairing damaged tissue. You only need so much. The rest will be stored as fat or used for energy. Carbohydrates and fats are more responsible for building muscle. They give you more energy to lift.
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eating 500g of protein is a waste of time. its expensive energy....the protein can be used, it doesnt just magically disappear..but the body only needs 1-1.25 protein per lbs bw. so what your doing is that your wasting your money.
i think its time for slaveboy to write an article about all this bullshit and set some things straight.
(also its a myth that the body can only assimilate so and so much..it assimilates everything..the real question is if it used to grow the muscles or not...so if you eat 500g protein..majority of that will be oxidized as expensive energy.
if your 200lbs you need to eat about 200g of protein. (max 250)
but if your 200lbs and go and eat 500g of protein..everything will be assimilated but less than half will be used for rebuilding muscles and other needed things. the rest will be used as energy! better to cut down the protein from 500 to 200 and replace thoses calorie with cheaper carbs!
::)...Yes...I do think it is time to slaveboy to write an article...but before that - maybe he should read few (other than Mickey Mouse Nutrition News)...or "How to make monster mosquito"
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This type of diet can only be followed for a certain amount time before it starts taking it's toll on your system.
Coach,
How so? This type of diet is derived from the evolutionary diet of humans. It was also popularized in the mid 1800's, and was called the Banting Diet, http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/banting.html (http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/banting.html)
A interesting study of the Inuits' (Eskimos) diet proved a high fat, high protein diet is all you need to live:
"Real-life tests
In 1906, Dr. Vilhjalmur Stefansson, a young Harvard anthropology teacher who later became a world-famous explorer and anthropologist, revolutionised polar exploration by crossing the Arctic alone and living off the land with the Eskimos. It was not quite what had been planned. Stefansson had gone on ahead of the Leffingwell-Mikkelson Expedition and had missed a planned rendezvous at Herschel Island. He was left to spend an Arctic winter with the Eskimos eating a diet composed only of meat and fish. Unlike the diet he had been brought up on, it contained no plant material whatsoever.
It was a golden opportunity for the young scientist to conduct an experiment into the effects of an Eskimo diet on a European unaccustomed to it. The usual Eskimo meal consisted of briefly stewed fish washed down with water. It was so different from what he was used to that at first Stefansson was repelled by it. To try to make the fish more palatable, he tried broiling it. This resulted in his becoming weak and dizzy, with other symptoms of malnutrition. Stefansson reasoned that with such a restricted diet the body had to have not just the fish but the other nutrients that had been leached out into the water. And so he tried harder. Eventually he became so accustomed to the primitive diet that, by the time he left the Eskimos, Stefansson managed as well as them. On this regime, Stefansson remained in perfect health and did not get fat.
The experience had a profound effect on Stefansson. Like Banting before him, he became interested in the possibilities of diets high in proteins and fats and low in carbohydrates. It seemed to him that a balanced diet in which there was relatively little meat, 'balanced' by larger amounts of potatoes, bread, rice and other starchy foods followed by sweet desserts and sugared coffee might be balanced in the wrong direction. And so, like Banting, Stefansson questioned the established ideas on diet. Unfortunately, he had no more success than Banting. Although he became famous and his position as an anthropologist was unassailable, still no one took any notice of his ideas on nutrition.
Some years after his first experience with the Eskimos, Dr. Stefansson returned to the Arctic with a colleague, Dr. Karsten Anderson, to carry out research for the American Museum of Natural History. They were supplied with every necessity including a year's supply of 'civilised' food. This they declined, electing instead to live off the land. In the end, the one-year project stretched to four years, during which time the two men ate only the meat they could kill and the fish they could catch in the Canadian Arctic. Neither of the two men suffered any adverse after-effects from their four-year experiment. It was evident to Stefansson, as it had been to Banting, that the body could function perfectly well, remain healthy, vigorous and slender if it used a diet in which as much food was eaten as the body required, only carbohydrate was restricted and the total number of calories was ignored"
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Hahah i don't know what the hell you are talking about. I have 30 pounds of fat on me right now. It is basic nutrition. You are basing your arguments on gym science that are half truths. Throwing more food at you doesnt mean more muscle. Throwing more drugs into your system doesn't mean more muscle. It takes YEARS to get big like that. There are no short cuts. I am a light weight because ive been bodybuilding for 2 years. Those other guys have been working out for 15+.
Exactly, your arguments show your lack of knowledge. Don't believe everything you read or learn in your nutrition class. Throwing more drugs into your system doesn't mean more muscle growth unless you train hard and eat. It does take time, but you can shorten that time if you use the right drugs and diet. I moved up a whole weight class after my first show.
You sound scared to take the leap and bitter at those who have and succeeded. Go and argue with youself now.
Dballn, how fat do you like to be while gaining mass
I found that at over 12%, I start gaining more and more fat and less muscle mass than when I am leaner
right now I still see my abs a little and my gains are pretty good this month
Stavios, I don't prefer to be over 15%. I don't mind being heavier though. Too many are concerned with weight thinking it is either lean muscle or fat. Their is water weight too. Which can all be taken care of. ;)
Milos is dead on. You need carbs but an Excess will cause you to gain BF. LeafyBug seems to think that if he eats any carbs his world will collapse. Now he is arguing with Milos....I thought he agreed with you?
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Protien is used for repairing damaged tissue. You only need so much. The rest will be stored as fat or used for energy. Carbohydrates and fats are more responsible for building muscle. They give you more energy to lift.
And Santa Claus is Mr. Olympia too... ;)
People goes to school for a reason...you know... ;D
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Protien is used for repairing damaged tissue. You only need so much. The rest will be stored as fat or used for energy. Carbohydrates and fats are more responsible for building muscle. They give you more energy to lift.
yeah but if you damage your muscles MORE OFTEN, you will also need more protein wich will lead to 2 times better gains 8)
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yeah but if you damage your muscles MORE OFTEN, you will also need more protein wich will lead to 2 times better gains 8)
Word. 8)
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Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...
IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...
Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...
Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}
and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)
Many people assume that because muscle tissue fibers are composed of protien, building muscle must require protien. This is only partially true. The heavy resistance type excercise that is needed to stimulate growth must be fueld by glucose and fatty acids, glucose being the predominate fuel. Little protien is used as fuel in resistance training. Studies have shown older adults in a positive nitrogen balance only getting a gram of protien per pound of body weight.
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And Santa Claus is Mr. Olympia too... ;)
People goes to school for a reason...you know... ;D
Yeah... im going to school and everything im learning goes against what you are saying. I never said it was right or wrong. Just spitting this back out at you.
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just eat more protein. what ya got to lose? if anything youll support the industry by buying protein powders!
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Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...
IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...
Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...
Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}
and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)
i will get back to this, when i have some more energy ;). for now...check my posts over at MD about nutrition before i got banned there.
i will say this tho: carbs dont make you fat. fat doesnt make you fat. protein doesnt make you fat >>>>>>>>>
surplus of calories make you fat irregardless where they come from. (fat/carb/protein)
fat can be stored as fat easier than carbs and protein..when in a caloric surplus.
as for protein requirements. when the glass is full its full!
ill write more on this soon.
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Yeah... im going to school and everything im learning goes against what you are saying. I never said it was right or wrong. Just spitting this back out at you.
Oh Brother....another Armchair Mr. O. ::)
But my teacher said!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
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Oh Brother....another Armchair Mr. O. ::)
But my teacher said!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Hey, for someone taking insulin it makes more sense. Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.
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Oh Brother....another Armchair Mr. O. ::)
But my teacher said!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
my teacher said in high school that eating more meat than the size of your fist was useless for gaining muscle ::)
I told her her explication was very "scientific" ;D
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Hey, for someone taking insulin it makes more sense. Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.
before saying that, you do know how the insulin works in your body right ? ???
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Many people assume that because muscle tissue fibers are composed of protien, building muscle must require protien. This is only partially true. The heavy resistance type excercise that is needed to stimulate growth must be fueld by glucose and fatty acids, glucose being the predominate fuel. Little protien is used as fuel in resistance training. Studies have shown older adults in a positive nitrogen balance only getting a gram of protien per pound of body weight.
sounds good, but you said "older adults" (that deff dont train as hard as a bb'er or have the protein requirements).
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Leave Bug alone...his methods and education are for NATURAL PHYSIQUES; you drug heads have a different playbook..
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sounds good, but you said "older adults" (that deff dont train as hard as a bb'er or have the protein requirements).
Wouldn't you think older adults according to these guys would need more protien since you start to lose muscle as you get older? By saying older adults i just reinforced my view.
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Hey, for someone taking insulin it makes more sense. Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.
I would believe the person who had the best physique, If he had a degree that is a bonus. You can get a McNutrition Degree and any online college, nutrition course etc.... I base my knowledge on real world trial and error. Once you've been doing this for about 10 years you'll have a broader view.
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I would believe the person who had the best physique, If he had a degree that is a bonus. You can get a McNutrition Degree and any online college, nutrition course etc.... I base my knowledge on real world trial and error. Once you've been doing this for about 10 years you'll have a broader view.
Drugs skew everything. You could live off a diet of tic tacs and take steroids and still grow.
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Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.
thats where you go wrong :). a good bodybuilder relies on what works in practisism and not what some "know all" nutritionist says that doesnt even go to the gym and bust his ass.
it kinda reminds me of these personal "know all" trainers on the gyms i go to overweight and no muscle,, doing all these cable and machine exercises. one of them actually told a guy that a cybex pressing machine was all he needed for his chest routine.
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I would believe the person who had the best physique, If he had a degree that is a bonus. You can get a McNutrition Degree and any online college, nutrition course etc.... I base my knowledge on real world trial and error. Once you've been doing this for about 10 years you'll have a broader view.
exactly.
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Drugs skew everything. You could live off a diet of tic tacs and take steroids and still grow.
Okay ::) Have you tried this? If not STFU. You're only showing your lack of knowledge and inexperience. Seriously, with your physique you should be taking it to the next level. But after reading your posts you seem to be determined to make minimal gains and stay as close to stage shape as possible.
I know that you have said that you have 30 lbs of fat, however most have like 50-60 before they would see the stage. I know that you have the determination to do well as you have taken the first step of competing. You can do much more, if you strive to make bigger gains during your off season. You'd make a force in the MWs class your next show if you add the right supplements and rethink your diet.
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thats where you go wrong :). a good bodybuilder relies on what works in practisism and not what some "know all" nutritionist says that doesnt even go to the gym and bust his ass.
it kinda reminds me of these personal "know all" trainers on the gyms i go to overweight and no muscle,, doing all these cable and machine exercises. one of them actually told a guy that a cybex pressing machine was all he needed for his chest routine.
Depends what his goals are. Most people aren't looking to add 50 pounds of muscle. Resistance is resistance. Your body can't tell the difference.
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Depends what his goals are. Most people aren't looking to add 50 pounds of muscle. Resistance is resistance. Your body can't tell the difference.
if you go to the gym your goal is allways to add muscle...
just wanne lose weight.. do cardio, eat less..
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Depends what his goals are. Most people aren't looking to add 50 pounds of muscle. Resistance is resistance. Your body can't tell the difference.
Try unracking 405 from the bench and see if your body can't tell a difference. Gotta watch out by making such blanket statements.
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Okay ::) Have you tried this? If not STFU. You're only showing your lack of knowledge and inexperience. Seriously, with your physique you should be taking it to the next level. But after reading your posts you seem to be determined to make minimal gains and stay as close to stage shape as possible.
I know that you have said that you have 30 lbs of fat, however most have like 50-60 before they would see the stage. I know that you have the determination to do well as you have taken the first step of competing. You can do much more, if you strive to make bigger gains during your off season. You'd make a force in the MWs class your next show if you add the right supplements and rethink your diet.
I have seen it first hand. Literally, you can gain muscle eating a diet of solid tic tacs with drugs. Hell, if you are young you can gain muscle in a calorie defecit. Just ask milos. I pmed him this question a long time ago. Is it optimal? Of course not but neither is eating unneccesary calories. You only need so much. If eating more was better explain to me why when i bulked up to 220 starting from a body weight of 150 probably being 120 shredded did i come back down to 150 looking exactly the same? I held the weight for a year. Bulking is a useless concept. Let me guess. I ran my cut wrong right? or i didn't eat enough steak.... Maybe i need more chicken in my diet?
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wow a thread where people actually discuss the science of bodybuilding
on getbig such a thread comes around only once a year ;D
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Try unracking 405 from the bench and see if your body can't tell a difference. Gotta watch out by making such blanket statements.
Dballn,
This has got to be the quote of the week, lol. props.
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Try unracking 405 from the bench and see if your body can't tell a difference. Gotta watch out by making such blanket statements.
Of course hold 405 on a machine will feel different then on a bench. A machine is made to make lifting easier. You can get big using all machine just as you can with dumbells. It has been done before.
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Drugs skew everything. You could live off a diet of tic tacs and take steroids and still grow.
Only if your genetic response to gear is good. I've known people on crazy cycles that couldn't grow with impeccable nutrition. I've known people on crazy cycles that grew brutally on less than 150grams of protein a day. I've known people that stay ripped while eating carrot cake every day. I know people that couldn't see their abs at 12% bf...
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Only if your genetic response to gear is good. I've known people on crazy cycles that couldn't grow with impeccable nutrition. I've known people on crazy cycles that grew brutally on less than 150grams of protein a day. I've known people that stay ripped while eating carrot cake every day. I know people that couldn't see their abs at 12% bf...
If i were to translate what you said into a different drug... lets say alcohol. "Alcohol doesn't get me drunk... i dont know why? No matter how much i drink i just don't get drunk". It doesn't make sense. There a numerous factors that can effect why steroids "don't work" for some people. Body fat and dosage is usually the case.
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you know a lot of people
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I have seen it first hand. Literally, you can gain muscle eating a diet of solid tic tacs with drugs. Hell, if you are young you can gain muscle in a calorie defecit. Just ask milos. I pmed him this question a long time ago. Is it optimal? Of course not but neither is eating unneccesary calories. You only need so much. If eating more was better explain to me why when i bulked up to 220 starting from a body weight of 150 probably being 120 shredded did i come back down to 150 looking exactly the same? I held the weight for a year. Bulking is a useless concept. Let me guess. I ran my cut wrong right? or i didn't eat enough steak.... Maybe i need more chicken in my diet?
First hand....so you've tried them? Or do you just know a guy that was completely honest with you about his diet? ::)
Regarding your bulk....Depends on what your 220 consisted of. If it was 220 of shit that yeah it would explain why you looked the same. If you indeed added muscle, then yes you did screw up you cutting phase......badly. You should have been a MW at least, and if it was a decent 220 a small LHW.
It seems like you are stuck on your own limitations, with just two years of experience under your belt and one bad bulking experience. You make broad, generalizing statements like bulking is useless. Be careful soon, or soon you'll start thinking that you have $hitty genetics, quit and start bashing BB.
Back to the drawing board.
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First hand....so you've tried them? Or do you just know a guy that was completely honest with you about his diet? ::)
Regarding your bulk....Depends on what your 220 consisted of. If it was 220 of shit that yeah it would explain why you looked the same. If you indeed added muscle, then yes you did screw up you cutting phase......badly. You should have been a MW at least, and if it was a decent 220 a small LHW.
It seems like you are stuck on your own limitations, with just two years of experience under your belt and one bad bulking experience. You make broad, generalizing statements like bulking is useless. Be careful soon, or soon you'll start thinking that you have $hitty genetics, quit and start bashing BB.
Back to the drawing board.
If you knew the same people i did you would realize how big of a joke this really is. I know people who are 5'6 160 pounds and can literally jump on some test at about 200,g and some ephedrine and within a months time be a ripped 180 pounds in contest shape. Of course some people have a harder time and have to work for their gains (mainly taller people) but it just shows you how easy and how fake something like bodybuilding is. Im not bitter in the least bit. I love bodybuilding but it just shows you how easy it is for some people. I don't think i have shitty genes. I think i have great shape, filling out will be very hard though. It is only natural for someone who has failed to be bitter towards something.
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If i were to translate what you said into a different drug... lets say alcohol. "Alcohol doesn't get me drunk... i dont know why? No matter how much i drink i just don't get drunk". It doesn't make sense. There a numerous factors that can effect why steroids "don't work" for some people. Body fat and dosage is usually the case.
Um, no...it has to do with things like steroid receptors and number/type of muscle cells in the body
Comparing reactions to hormones to alcohol is tragically flawed; hormone balance and metabolic pathways in the body is very VERY complex and varies from person to person; in the same breath, numerous studies have been done on alcoholics showing that they in fact do not get intoxicated once they reach a certain point...
In your frenzy to argue, did you not infer that I am on your side, buddy?
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If you knew the same people i did you would realize how big of a joke this really is. I know people who are 5'6 160 pounds and can literally jump on some test at about 200,g and some ephedrine and within a months time be a ripped 180 pounds in contest shape. Of course some people have a harder time and have to work for their gains (mainly taller people) but it just shows you how easy and how fake something like bodybuilding is. Im not bitter in the least bit. I love bodybuilding but it just shows you how easy it is for some people. I don't think i have shitty genes. I think i have great shape, filling out will be very hard though. It is only natural for someone who has failed to be bitter towards something.
And one time...at band camp....words words words.
On a serious note....You have to stay positive and constantly rethink your strategy. Keep doing what you are doing, just up the total calories 10% a month across the board (Protein, Fats and Carbs) until you no longer see gains, then back off. It is those who just take a jump from eating 2000 cals a day to 4000 cals a day that get fat quickly. Do it gradually and you'll see steady improvements.
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Um, no...it has to do with things like steroid receptors and number/type of muscle cells in the body
Comparing reactions to hormones to alcohol is tragically flawed; hormone balance and metabolic pathways in the body is very VERY complex and varies from person to person; in the same breath, numerous studies have been done on alcoholics showing that they in fact do not get intoxicated once they reach a certain point...
In your frenzy to argue, did you not infer that I am on your side, buddy?
You missed the point. The point is that still work. As long as you have receptors you will still get some benefit not matter how small it is. Same with alcoholics. If they stop drinking for a long period of time and reintroduce alcohol it will work again. If im not correct about the alcohol the feel free to jump in.
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And one time...at band camp....words words words.
On a serious note....You have to stay positive and constantly rethink your strategy. Keep doing what you are doing, just up the total calories 10% a month across the board (Protein, Fats and Carbs) until you no longer see gains, then back off. It is those who just take a jump from eating 2000 cals a day to 4000 cals a day that get fat quickly. Do it gradually and you'll see steady improvements.
I did do it gradually starting from 2900 up to 3k and so on untill i got to about 4500. Look at your friend Mr. Magoo and ask him if bulking is effective. You don't need extreme calories.
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You missed the point. The point is that still work. As long as you have receptors you will still get some benefit not matter how small it is. Same with alcoholics. If they stop drinking for a long period of time and reintroduce alcohol it will work again. If im not correct about the alcohol the feel free to jump in.
Agreed everyone will see SOME benefit; a lot of people think a cycle is a license to put on unlimited muscle....it is for some, but not for everybody
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I did do it gradually starting from 2900 up to 3k and so on untill i got to about 4500. Look at your friend Mr. Magoo and ask him if bulking is effective. You don't need extreme calories.
What were you eating 4500 cals for, you don't have that much lean muscle? That is for people who are using hormones.
Anyways I'm done, it's like arguing with a 10 year old. I'm sure you views will have changed after you have some more experience under your belt. Have fun man.
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What were you eating 4500 cals for, you don't have that much lean muscle? That is for people who are using hormones.
Anyways I'm done, it's like arguing with a 10 year old. I'm sure you views will have changed after you have some more experience under your belt. Have fun man.
yep... that's why i gave up 6 pages ago
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im not giving up just yet...!
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Can you link the controlled study that proves this? Plus I think most would rather be a bit over than a bit under.
Yes I can, I'm in the middle of work right now, but i have access to PLENTY of comprehensive University studies done with athletes.
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Drugs skew everything. You could live off a diet of tic tacs and take steroids and still grow.
absolutly not :o
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Yes I can, I'm in the middle of work right now, but i have access to PLENTY of comprehensive University studies done with athletes.
what about studies with the best athletes of them all, bodybuilders that is ;D
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Unfortunately gout prevents me from following that consumption pattern
::) oh brother, lose some weight.
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::) oh brother, lose some weight.
The thread lives again ;D
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that dude is in his 20s i think, and he has gout!
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that dude is in his 20s i think, and he has gout!
I thought gout came from excessive drinking.
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I thought gout came from excessive drinking.
http://www.gout.com/causes_gout/causes_gout.aspx
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today i ate=
one banana (0 grams)
2 scoops whey protein ( 40 grams)
one scoop gatorade ( 0 grams)
2 scoops whey protein (40 grams)
bowl full of lettuce ( 0 grams)
1 steak (im guessing 50 grams at least..it was a big steak)
one can of tuna (35 grams)
one rtd protein shake (35 grams)
protein pancakes ( 50 grams)
one scoop gatorade ( 0 grams)
2 scoops protein ( 40 grams)
bowl full of lettuce ( 0 grams)
7 eggs and a steak (roughly 75 grams)
so at least 365 grams of protein.
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oh you know what i forgot about a steak/lettuce burrito i made with a low carb tortilla (8 grams carbs 7 of which are fiber) before my last meal and after that last protein shake.
so make that daily total 400 grams for today.
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I thought gout came from excessive drinking.
It's caused by being a glutton, but also genetics is a big factor. My dad just got it but he's 70.
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today i ate=
one banana (0 grams)
2 scoops whey protein ( 40 grams)
one scoop gatorade ( 0 grams)
2 scoops whey protein (40 grams)
bowl full of lettuce ( 0 grams)
1 steak (im guessing 50 grams at least..it was a big steak)
one can of tuna (35 grams)
one rtd protein shake (35 grams)
protein pancakes ( 50 grams)
one scoop gatorade ( 0 grams)
2 scoops protein ( 40 grams)
bowl full of lettuce ( 0 grams)
7 eggs and a steak (roughly 75 grams)
so at least 365 grams of protein.
too much unless you have the lean muscle size as a pro bodybuilder. Milos gets 400.
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well i am doing two 1 1/2 hour cardio sessions (morning on an empty stomach and at night after im done eating before bed) and a pretty intense 45 min-1 1/2 hour weight training workout every day.
and im also 18 years old.
im pretty sure that my rate of protein synthesis, testosterone levels, and need for calories are all quite higher than most guys on this forum.
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well i am doing two 1 1/2 hour cardio sessions (morning on an empty stomach and at night after im done eating before bed) and a pretty intense 45 min-1 1/2 hour weight training workout every day.
and im also 18 years old.
im pretty sure that my rate of protein synthesis, testosterone levels, and need for calories are all quite higher than most guys on this forum.
hahahahahha ;D
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well i am doing two 1 1/2 hour cardio sessions (morning on an empty stomach and at night after im done eating before bed) and a pretty intense 45 min-1 1/2 hour weight training workout every day.
and im also 18 years old.
im pretty sure that my rate of protein synthesis, testosterone levels, and need for calories are all quite higher than most guys on this forum.
::),,,,
you are ingesting too much protein. how much do you weigh?