GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board

[Dballn247]

Hey, for someone taking insulin it makes more sense. Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.

I would believe the person who had the best physique, If he had a degree that is a bonus.  You can get a McNutrition Degree and any online college, nutrition course etc....  I base my knowledge on real world trial and error.  Once you've been doing this for about 10 years you'll have a broader view. 

[The_Leafy_Bug]

I would believe the person who had the best physique, If he had a degree that is a bonus.  You can get a McNutrition Degree and any online college, nutrition course etc....  I base my knowledge on real world trial and error.  Once you've been doing this for about 10 years you'll have a broader view. 

Drugs skew everything. You could live off a diet of tic tacs and take steroids and still grow.

[MAXX]

Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.

thats where you go wrong  . a good bodybuilder relies on what works in practisism and not what some "know all" nutritionist says that doesnt even go to the gym and bust his ass.


it kinda reminds me of these personal "know all" trainers on the gyms i go to overweight and no muscle,, doing all these cable and machine exercises. one of them actually told a guy that a cybex pressing machine was all he needed for his chest routine.

[MAXX]

I would believe the person who had the best physique, If he had a degree that is a bonus.  You can get a McNutrition Degree and any online college, nutrition course etc....  I base my knowledge on real world trial and error.  Once you've been doing this for about 10 years you'll have a broader view. 

exactly.

[Dballn247]

Drugs skew everything. You could live off a diet of tic tacs and take steroids and still grow.

Okay    Have you tried this?  If not STFU.  You're only showing your lack of knowledge and inexperience.  Seriously, with your physique you should be taking it to the next level.  But after reading your posts you seem to be determined to make minimal gains and stay as close to stage shape as possible. 

I know that you have said that you have 30 lbs of fat, however most have like 50-60 before they would see the stage.  I know that you have the determination to do well as you have taken the first step of competing.  You can do much more, if you strive to make bigger gains during your off season.  You'd make a force in the MWs class your next show if you add the right supplements and rethink your diet.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

thats where you go wrong  . a good bodybuilder relies on what works in practisism and not what some "know all" nutritionist says that doesnt even go to the gym and bust his ass.


it kinda reminds me of these personal "know all" trainers on the gyms i go to overweight and no muscle,, doing all these cable and machine exercises. one of them actually told a guy that a cybex pressing machine was all he needed for his chest routine.

Depends what his goals are. Most people aren't looking to add 50 pounds of muscle. Resistance is resistance. Your body can't tell the difference.

[MAXX]

Depends what his goals are. Most people aren't looking to add 50 pounds of muscle. Resistance is resistance. Your body can't tell the difference.

if you go to the gym your goal is allways to add muscle...

just wanne lose weight.. do cardio, eat less..

[Dballn247]

Depends what his goals are. Most people aren't looking to add 50 pounds of muscle. Resistance is resistance. Your body can't tell the difference.

Try unracking 405 from the bench and see if your body can't tell a difference.  Gotta watch out by making such blanket statements.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Okay    Have you tried this?  If not STFU.  You're only showing your lack of knowledge and inexperience.  Seriously, with your physique you should be taking it to the next level.  But after reading your posts you seem to be determined to make minimal gains and stay as close to stage shape as possible. 

I know that you have said that you have 30 lbs of fat, however most have like 50-60 before they would see the stage.  I know that you have the determination to do well as you have taken the first step of competing.  You can do much more, if you strive to make bigger gains during your off season.  You'd make a force in the MWs class your next show if you add the right supplements and rethink your diet.

I have seen it first hand. Literally, you can gain muscle eating a diet of solid tic tacs with drugs. Hell, if you are young you can gain muscle in a calorie defecit. Just ask milos. I pmed him this question a long time ago. Is it optimal? Of course not but neither is eating unneccesary calories. You only need so much. If eating more was better explain to me why when i bulked up to 220 starting from a body weight of 150 probably being 120 shredded did i come back down to 150 looking exactly the same? I held the weight for a year. Bulking is a useless concept. Let me guess. I ran my cut wrong right? or i didn't eat enough steak.... Maybe i need more chicken in my diet?

[omg]

wow a thread where people actually discuss the science of bodybuilding

on getbig such a thread comes around only once a year

[Hypertrophy]

Try unracking 405 from the bench and see if your body can't tell a difference.  Gotta watch out by making such blanket statements.

Dballn,

This has got to be the quote of the week, lol. props.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Try unracking 405 from the bench and see if your body can't tell a difference.  Gotta watch out by making such blanket statements.

Of course hold 405 on a machine will feel different then on a bench. A machine is made to make lifting easier. You can get big using all machine just as you can with dumbells. It has been done before.

[tleilaxutank]

Drugs skew everything. You could live off a diet of tic tacs and take steroids and still grow.

Only if your genetic response to gear is good.  I've known people on crazy cycles that couldn't grow with impeccable nutrition.  I've known people on crazy cycles that grew brutally on less than 150grams of protein a day.  I've known people that stay ripped while eating carrot cake every day.  I know people that couldn't see their abs at 12% bf...

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Only if your genetic response to gear is good.  I've known people on crazy cycles that couldn't grow with impeccable nutrition.  I've known people on crazy cycles that grew brutally on less than 150grams of protein a day.  I've known people that stay ripped while eating carrot cake every day.  I know people that couldn't see their abs at 12% bf...

If i were to translate what you said into a different drug... lets say alcohol. "Alcohol doesn't get me drunk... i dont know why? No matter how much i drink i just don't get drunk". It doesn't make sense. There a numerous factors that can effect why steroids "don't work" for some people. Body fat and dosage is usually the case.

[Bluto]

you know a lot of people

[Dballn247]

I have seen it first hand. Literally, you can gain muscle eating a diet of solid tic tacs with drugs. Hell, if you are young you can gain muscle in a calorie defecit. Just ask milos. I pmed him this question a long time ago. Is it optimal? Of course not but neither is eating unneccesary calories. You only need so much. If eating more was better explain to me why when i bulked up to 220 starting from a body weight of 150 probably being 120 shredded did i come back down to 150 looking exactly the same? I held the weight for a year. Bulking is a useless concept. Let me guess. I ran my cut wrong right? or i didn't eat enough steak.... Maybe i need more chicken in my diet?

First hand....so you've tried them?  Or do you just know a guy that was completely honest with you about his diet?

Regarding your bulk....Depends on what your 220 consisted of.  If it was 220 of shit that yeah it would explain why you looked the same.  If you indeed added muscle, then yes you did screw up you cutting phase......badly.  You should have been a MW at least, and if it was a decent 220 a small LHW. 

It seems like you are stuck on your own limitations, with just two years of experience under your belt and one bad bulking experience.  You make broad, generalizing statements like bulking is useless.  Be careful soon, or soon you'll start thinking that you have $hitty genetics, quit and start bashing BB. 


Back to the drawing board. 

[The_Leafy_Bug]

First hand....so you've tried them?  Or do you just know a guy that was completely honest with you about his diet?

Regarding your bulk....Depends on what your 220 consisted of.  If it was 220 of shit that yeah it would explain why you looked the same.  If you indeed added muscle, then yes you did screw up you cutting phase......badly.  You should have been a MW at least, and if it was a decent 220 a small LHW. 

It seems like you are stuck on your own limitations, with just two years of experience under your belt and one bad bulking experience.  You make broad, generalizing statements like bulking is useless.  Be careful soon, or soon you'll start thinking that you have $hitty genetics, quit and start bashing BB. 


Back to the drawing board. 

If you knew the same people i did you would realize how big of a joke this really is. I know people who are 5'6 160 pounds and can literally jump on some test at about 200,g and some ephedrine and within a months time be a ripped 180 pounds in contest shape. Of course some people have a harder time and have to work for their gains (mainly taller people) but it just shows you how easy and how fake something like bodybuilding is. Im not bitter in the least bit. I love bodybuilding but it just shows you how easy it is for some people. I don't think i have shitty genes. I think i have great shape, filling out will be very hard though. It is only natural for someone who has failed to be bitter towards something.

[tleilaxutank]

If i were to translate what you said into a different drug... lets say alcohol. "Alcohol doesn't get me drunk... i dont know why? No matter how much i drink i just don't get drunk". It doesn't make sense. There a numerous factors that can effect why steroids "don't work" for some people. Body fat and dosage is usually the case.

Um, no...it has to do with things like steroid receptors and number/type of muscle cells in the body

Comparing reactions to hormones to alcohol is tragically flawed; hormone balance and metabolic pathways in the body is very VERY complex and varies from person to person; in the same breath, numerous studies have been done on alcoholics showing that they in fact do not get intoxicated once they reach a certain point...


In your frenzy to argue, did you not infer that I am on your side, buddy?

[Dballn247]

If you knew the same people i did you would realize how big of a joke this really is. I know people who are 5'6 160 pounds and can literally jump on some test at about 200,g and some ephedrine and within a months time be a ripped 180 pounds in contest shape. Of course some people have a harder time and have to work for their gains (mainly taller people) but it just shows you how easy and how fake something like bodybuilding is. Im not bitter in the least bit. I love bodybuilding but it just shows you how easy it is for some people. I don't think i have shitty genes. I think i have great shape, filling out will be very hard though. It is only natural for someone who has failed to be bitter towards something.

And one time...at band camp....words words words. 

On a serious note....You have to stay positive and constantly rethink your strategy.  Keep doing what you are doing, just up the total calories 10% a month across the board (Protein, Fats and Carbs) until you no longer see gains, then back off.  It is those who just take a jump from eating 2000 cals a day to 4000 cals a day that get fat quickly.  Do it gradually and you'll see steady improvements.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Um, no...it has to do with things like steroid receptors and number/type of muscle cells in the body

Comparing reactions to hormones to alcohol is tragically flawed; hormone balance and metabolic pathways in the body is very VERY complex and varies from person to person; in the same breath, numerous studies have been done on alcoholics showing that they in fact do not get intoxicated once they reach a certain point...


In your frenzy to argue, did you not infer that I am on your side, buddy?

You missed the point. The point is that still work. As long as you have receptors you will still get some benefit not matter how small it is. Same with alcoholics. If they stop drinking for a long period of time and reintroduce alcohol it will work again. If im not correct about the alcohol the feel free to jump in.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

And one time...at band camp....words words words. 

On a serious note....You have to stay positive and constantly rethink your strategy.  Keep doing what you are doing, just up the total calories 10% a month across the board (Protein, Fats and Carbs) until you no longer see gains, then back off.  It is those who just take a jump from eating 2000 cals a day to 4000 cals a day that get fat quickly.  Do it gradually and you'll see steady improvements.

I did do it gradually starting from 2900 up to 3k and so on untill i got to about 4500. Look at your friend Mr. Magoo and ask him if bulking is effective. You don't need extreme calories.

[tleilaxutank]

You missed the point. The point is that still work. As long as you have receptors you will still get some benefit not matter how small it is. Same with alcoholics. If they stop drinking for a long period of time and reintroduce alcohol it will work again. If im not correct about the alcohol the feel free to jump in.

Agreed everyone will see SOME benefit; a lot of people think a cycle is a license to put on unlimited muscle....it is for some, but not for everybody

[Dballn247]

I did do it gradually starting from 2900 up to 3k and so on untill i got to about 4500. Look at your friend Mr. Magoo and ask him if bulking is effective. You don't need extreme calories.

What were you eating 4500 cals for, you don't have that much lean muscle?  That is for people who are using hormones. 

Anyways I'm done, it's like arguing with a 10 year old.  I'm sure you views will have changed after you have some more experience under your belt.  Have fun man.

[WOOO]

What were you eating 4500 cals for, you don't have that much lean muscle?  That is for people who are using hormones. 

Anyways I'm done, it's like arguing with a 10 year old.  I'm sure you views will have changed after you have some more experience under your belt.  Have fun man.

yep... that's why i gave up 6 pages ago

[Bluto]

im not giving up just yet...!