Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: The Coach on December 04, 2008, 10:36:53 AM
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It sounds to me the government wants to totally take over with government "oversights" and a "regulatory commitee". Anyone remember what the dems did with Fannie and Freddy that help caused the mess we're i now?
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It sounds to me the government wants to totally take over with government "oversights" and a "regulatory commitee". Anyone remember what the dems did with Fannie and Freddy that help caused the mess we're i now?
They didn't 'cause' the mess, per se, but their 'solution' certainly won't help us, that's for sure.
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tough situation here. You give them the $34 billion and they'll be back in 6 weeks asking for $60B.
Their success models aren't taking into account the diving consumer purchasing. They won't even look at the cameras and tell us the $ will fix it - only that it'll fix it for now.
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Let them fail, the unions need to go.
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Maybe getbig needs a bailout plan ?!?
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I have a regulatory committee in my backyard. They're over sighting gofers bailouts.
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No bailout. Force them to undergo meaningful change. Thats the purpose of filing chapter 11.
Gov oversight is bad in the long run.
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No bailout. Force them to undergo meaningful change. Thats the purpose of filing chapter 11.
Gov oversight is bad in the long run.
They won't recover. I say finance their changes but force them to make meaningful ones... like mpg targets and alternatives...
we got our money back from Chrysler in the '80s.
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I bailed outta this chicks window last night when her husband got home.
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I bailed outta this chicks window last night when her husband got home.
... that was you ;D ?
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... that was you ;D ?
Your a big dude,all around big dude ;D
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haha...Keep looking...
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Let them fail!
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shit the American car companies are a mess, i saw a comparison between GM and Hyundai, base pay for a Hyndai worker is 27.00 an hour with no union involvement and when you add in benefits pay for a GM worker is 70.00 an hour, plus GM is paying out benefits to 360,000 retirees and Hyundai has a big whopping 0, no wonder the Japs wipe their asses with us.
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The Big 3 have been reaping benefits for years, now it's payback time!!
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The Big 3 have been reaping benefits for years, now it's payback time!!
hahahaha, it's a joke, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Toyota are all BUILDING plants and GM, Ford and Chrysler are CLOSING them.
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hahahaha, it's a joke, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Toyota are all BUILDING plants and GM, Ford and Chrysler are CLOSING them.
I drive Japanese ;D
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I drive Japanese ;D
me too, momma didn't raise no fool. :D
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No bailout. Force them to undergo meaningful change. Thats the purpose of filing chapter 11.
Gov oversight is bad in the long run.
Yes. Nature (the free market) has to do her job. No bailouts is the only solution to this snowball.
Some companies will go bankrupt. More efficient companies will grow. Industries will shrink, die, grow, and be created in time. In the process, jobs will shift from one industry to another. Industries will undergo a revolution and efficiency necessities will adopt a new face.
Ultimately, the choice is 1) suffer long-term or 2) suffer short-term.
If you picked 1) suffer long-term, bail companies out.
If you picked 2) suffer short term, let companies go under.
It is natural for industries to evolve in time and that means some people won't like the change. But, it is necessary, good, and ultimately increases the real wealth (purchasing power) of the members of the population. The problem is that people don't have the mental capacity to understand the actual and inevitable nature of an economy from a macro ("big-picture") perspective. Yes, even congress. Yes, even our president. Yes, even us. :-\
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brutal making 25 changes to your post by "soundless".
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me too, momma didn't raise no fool. :D
and you still live with her in the trailer.
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and you still live with her in the trailer.
as opposed to you who..................... ...........wait , nevermind you're too chickenshit of your skinny/fat "body" to post a picture. :D
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Yes. Nature (the free market) has to do her job. No bailouts is the only solution to this snowball.
Some companies will go bankrupt. More efficient companies will grow. Industries will shrink, die, grow, and be created in time. In the process, jobs will shift from one industry to another. Industries will undergo a revolution and efficiency necessities will adopt a new face.
Ultimately, the choice is 1) suffer long-term or 2) suffer short-term.
If you picked 1) suffer long-term, bail companies out.
If you picked 2) suffer short term, let companies go under.
It is natural for industries to evolve in time and that means some people won't like the change. But, it is necessary, good, and ultimately increases the real wealth (purchasing power) of the members of the population. The problem is that people don't have the mental capacity to understand the actual and inevitable nature of an economy from a macro ("big-picture") perspective. Yes, even congress. Yes, even our president. Yes, even us. :-\
Good stuff.
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Most of you have horrible ideas and are clueless as to the detriment it would cause to just let these companies fail when a large segment of America is invested and is employed by the big 3. Telling retirees that they should go screw themselves and die for no fault of their own by stopping their medical coverage when they are in need as well as stopping their pensions is just plain barbarism. The lot of you have a herdish mentality and are in no way of recognizing the principal, United we Stand, Divided We Fall.
Here is a real solution
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Bush has been the biggest socialistic president to date in America...
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Bush has been the biggest socialistic president to date in America...
Socialism is great. Socialism is simply the ownership of corporations by the people. That is one thing Sarah Palin (although the program was instilled largely from the legislature with her giving the green light) did correctly in Alaska by allowing the people to own portions of the oil companies en masse thus allowing them en masse` to reap the profits as citizens at no detriment to the corporation. In fact, it even increased the worth of the oil companies at hand.
Dennis Kucinich did the same thing in Cleveland with the power companies. Not only are power bills virtually cost free, the people had control of the decisions in their power and how to extend it and what to do with the profits. This saved the city nearly a billion dollars already and the people basically have free power and the Cleveland Muncipal Power company operates as a huge success to all.
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I also love the faux outrage a lot of you are expressing for a proven business model when entrepreneurs continually abuse loans from the government with no proven business model throwing money down the toilet whereas the BIG 3 actually have a value and are proven business models which can recover and they do have a retiree base.
Yet a lot of you see no problem with Joe Sixpack getting a few million dollars for his lawnmower store in the middle of nowhere which employs 3 people and is surely not going to generate revenue as effective as a megacorp.
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A little more on the effectiveness of Socialism and Sarah Palin:
The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government’s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year’s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, —that “we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.”
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you are far too idealistic adonis, there will always be greed which leads to a complete downfall of socialism
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Sarah Palin may not know the definition of Socialism, but the crux of her success is true socialism. If she had a better education, she would probably realize and embrace socialism as it is working very well under her direction. What is more ironic is how dumb the lot of you and Americans are to see that Socialism works very very well, yet you protest against it like mindless sheep without even knowing the definition and then even have a leader who promotes it, Sarah Palin, but who herself and her followers don`t even recognize that her success is due to her Socialism which is even unbeknownst to her.
Ignorance can be cured.
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you are far too idealistic adonis, there will always be greed which leads to a complete downfall of socialism
When people are funding the corporations and reaping the profits via a vast stake in ownership, greed amongst the leadership of said corporation only increases the coffers of all.
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I have no problem with the Big 3 as companies, the real problem is the unions and their greed. No one should be getting paid $70.00 to turn a wrench, sorry but that's just nonsense. Most of that money doesn't even go into the pockets of the workers it goes to the Unions. The unions have fucked up American car companies and need to go. When I said let them fail I do mean that, they need to go under and come back without unions being involved with them at all.
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When people are funding the corporations and reaping the profits via a vast stake in ownership, greed amongst the leadership of said corporation only increases the coffers of all.
Add to the fact when Socialism is employed which is people OWNING the corporations on a mass scale, corporations are indebted to the people and have to answer directly to the people therefore we then have a direct hand in the companies development and a vested interest in their success.
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I have no problem with the Big 3 as companies, the real problem is the unions and their greed. No one should be getting paid $70.00 to turn a wrench, sorry but that's just nonsense. Most of that money doesn't even go into the pockets of the workers it goes to the Unions. The unions have fucked up American car companies and need to go. When I said let them fail I do mean that, they need to go under and come back without unions being involved with them at all.
Wrong. You are not using any facts at all with this statement. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not spout things without facts or evidence.
I guess you have never visited or seen an Auto Plant before. People aren`t just "turning wrenches". It is a entirely technical process. Also, if they were turning wrenches by hand, as Ferrari does, the workers would certainly deserve way more than 70 dollars an hour as they are hand building a limited product with artisanship quality.
The Unions are not dragging anyone down. You do realize that membership is optional and that corporations can hire non-union workers on a mass scale at any time. They choose not to as the Unions actually save the auto manufactures money by taking up benefit pay and unemployment costs.
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Socialism is great. Socialism is simply the ownership of corporations by the people. That is one thing Sarah Palin (although the program was instilled largely from the legislature with her giving the green light) did correctly in Alaska by allowing the people to own portions of the oil companies en masse thus allowing them en masse` to reap the profits as citizens at no detriment to the corporation. In fact, it even increased the worth of the oil companies at hand.
Dennis Kucinich did the same thing in Cleveland with the power companies. Not only are power bills virtually cost free, the people had control of the decisions in their power and how to extend it and what to do with the profits. This saved the city nearly a billion dollars already and the people basically have free power and the Cleveland Muncipal Power company operates as a huge success to all.
Socialism is lazy people depending solely on the government for help because they can't fend for themselves. It's a cop out. I in NO WAY want to pay for other peoples fuck ups. Cut and paste anything you want Adam but all socialism is, is taking from hard working (and smart) people who have made it on their own.
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Socialism is lazy people depending solely on the government for help because they can't fend for themselves. It's a cop out. I in NO WAY want to pay for other peoples fuck ups. Cut and paste anything you want Adam but all socialism is, is taking from hard working (and smart) people who have made it on their own.
Wrong. See Above on Sarah Palin`s Socialism.
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Most of you have horrible ideas and are clueless as to the detriment it would cause to just let these companies fail when a large segment of America is invested and is employed by the big 3. Telling retirees that they should go screw themselves and die for no fault of their own by stopping their medical coverage when they are in need as well as stopping their pensions is just plain barbarism. The lot of you have a herdish mentality and are in no way of recognizing the principal, United we Stand, Divided We Fall.
Here is a real solution
Just seeing these two communtists without playing it was enough to bypass that video. I won't even watch ESPN knowing that prick Olberman might be doing a commentary.
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Wrong. See Above on Sarah Palin`s Socialism.
Thats not socialism, the profits were redistributed from oil companies not from wealthier private citizens. Thats distributing dividends from profit.
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Just seeing these two communtists without playing it was enough to bypass that video. I won't even watch ESPN knowing that prick Olberman might be doing a commentary.
Sarah Palin supports socialism even if she did not realize it via ignorance. You supported Palin and absolutely loved her. The crux of her populist success is true socialism. Do you still support Palin and her Socialism?
The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government’s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year’s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, —that “we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.”
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Sarah Palin supports socialism even if she did not realize it via ignorance. You supported Palin and absolutely loved her. The crux of her populist success is true socialism. Do you still support Palin and her Socialism?
The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government’s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year’s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, —that “we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.”
Read my above post adam.
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Thats not socialism, the profits were redistributed from oil companies not from wealthier private citizens. Thats distributing dividends from profit.
That is socialism my ill-educated friend. Collective ownership of corporations. So we both agree that Socialism is great then.
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Thats not socialism, the profits were redistributed from oil companies not from wealthier private citizens. Thats distributing dividends from profit.
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods or profits, and the creation of an egalitarian society.
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Socialism is for gooks and crusty eastern Europeans.
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Socialism is for gooks and crusty eastern Europeans.
And for Sarah Palin or those who realize its effectiveness.
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And for Sarah Palin or those who realize its effectiveness.
Will Palin be naked when she's socializing? 8)
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The United States military is still the largest Socialist operating body and it is the most successful. Socialism comes in many forms also such as Fire Department protetction, Police protection, roads, infrastructure such as bridges.
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so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm) KEY
NOUN:
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.
By your definition Adam, when I invest in a company or in the stock market and I recieve a dividends check........that's socialism? LOL
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The United States military is still the largest Socialist operating body and it is the most successful. Socialism comes in many forms also such as Fire Department protetction, Police protection, roads, infrastructure such as bridges.
EXACTAMUNDO.
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so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm) KEY
NOUN:
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.
By your definition Adam, when I invest in a company or in the stock market and I recieve a dividends check........that's socialism? LOL
Yep. It sure is. Socialism at its core is collective ownership by the people. You support socialism all the time as do I.
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Yep. It sure is. Socialism at its core is collective ownership by the people. You support socialism all the time as do I.
Ok, I'm done here. Sorry Adam, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
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RON PAUL'S SPEECH BEFORE CONGRESS - REASON FOR THE COLLAPSE
The Austrians Were Right
by Congressman Ron Paul
Congressman Ron Paul speaking before the US House of Representatives
November 20, 2008
Madame Speaker, many Americans are hoping the new administration will solve the economic problems we face. That's not likely to happen, because the economic advisors to the new President have no more understanding of how to get us out of this mess than previous administrations and Congresses understood how the crisis was brought about in the first place.
Except for a rare few, Members of Congress are unaware of Austrian Free Market economics. For the last 80 years, the legislative, judiciary and executive branches of our government have been totally influenced by Keynesian economics. If they had had any understanding of the Austrian economic explanation of the business cycle, they would have never permitted the dangerous bubbles that always lead to painful corrections.
Today, a major economic crisis is unfolding. New government programs are started daily, and future plans are being made for even more. All are based on the belief that we're in this mess because free-market capitalism and sound money failed. The obsession is with more spending, bailouts of bad investments, more debt, and further dollar debasement. Many are saying we need an international answer to our problems with the establishment of a world central bank and a single fiat reserve currency. These suggestions are merely more of the same policies that created our mess and are doomed to fail.
At least 90% of the cause for the financial crisis can be laid at the doorstep of the Federal Reserve. It is the manipulation of credit, the money supply, and interest rates that caused the various bubbles to form. Congress added fuel to the fire by various programs and institutions like the Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, FDIC, and HUD mandates, which were all backed up by aggressive court rulings.
The Fed has now doled out close to $2 trillion in subsidized loans to troubled banks and other financial institutions. The Federal Reserve and Treasury constantly brag about the need for "transparency" and "oversight," but it's all just talk – they want none of it. They want secrecy while the privileged are rescued at the expense of the middle class.
It is unimaginable that Congress could be so derelict in its duty. It does nothing but condone the arrogance of the Fed in its refusal to tell us where the $2 trillion has gone. All Members of Congress and all Americans should be outraged that conditions could deteriorate to this degree. It's no wonder that a large and growing number of Americans are now demanding an end to the Fed.
The Federal Reserve created our problem, yet it manages to gain even more power in the socialization of the entire financial system. The whole bailout process this past year was characterized by no oversight, no limits, no concerns, no understanding, and no common sense.
Similar mistakes were made in the 1930s and ushered in the age of the New Deal, the Fair Deal, the Great Society and the supply-siders who convinced conservatives that deficits didn't really matter after all, since they were anxious to finance a very expensive deficit-financed American empire.
All the programs since the Depression were meant to prevent recessions and depressions. Yet all that was done was to plant the seeds of the greatest financial bubble in all history. Because of this lack of understanding, the stage is now set for massive nationalization of the financial system and quite likely the means of production.
Although it is obvious that the Keynesians were all wrong and interventionism and central economic planning don't work, whom are we listening to for advice on getting us out of this mess? Unfortunately, it's the Keynesians, the socialists, and big-government proponents.
Who's being ignored? The Austrian free-market economists – the very ones who predicted not only the Great Depression, but the calamity we're dealing with today. If the crisis was predictable and is explainable, why did no one listen? It's because too many politicians believed that a free lunch was possible and a new economic paradigm had arrived. But we've heard that one before – like the philosopher' s stone that could turn lead into gold. Prosperity without work is a dream of the ages.
Over and above this are those who understand that political power is controlled by those who control the money supply. Liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats came to believe, as they were taught in our universities, that deficits don't matter and that Federal Reserve accommodation by monetizing debt is legitimate and never harmful. The truth is otherwise. Central economic planning is always harmful. Inflating the money supply and purposely devaluing the dollar is always painful and dangerous.
The policies of big-government proponents are running out of steam.
Their policies have failed and will continue to fail. Merely doing more of what caused the crisis can hardly provide a solution.
The good news is that Austrian economists are gaining more acceptance every day and have a greater chance of influencing our future than they've had for a long time.
The basic problem is that proponents of big government require a central bank in order to surreptitiously pay bills without direct taxation. Printing needed money delays the payment. Raising taxes would reveal the true cost of big government, and the people would revolt. But the piper will be paid, and that's what this crisis is all about.
There are limits. A country cannot forever depend on a central bank to keep the economy afloat and the currency functionable through constant acceleration of money supply growth. Eventually the laws of economics will overrule the politicians, the bureaucrats and the central bankers. The system will fail to respond unless the excess debt and mal-investment is liquidated. If it goes too far and the wild extravagance is not arrested, runaway inflation will result, and an entirely new currency will be required to restore growth and reasonable political stability.
The choice we face is ominous: We either accept world-wide authoritarian government holding together a flawed system, OR we restore the principles of the Constitution, limit government power, restore commodity money without a Federal Reserve system, reject world government, and promote the cause of peace by protecting liberty equally for all persons. Freedom is the answer.
Ron Paul
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https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html
Check out the bottom four countries... What do they all have in common?
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Ok, I'm done here. Sorry Adam, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
You are wasting your time with canned definitions. You should also read Francis Bellamy. He is the Christian Socialist who created The Pledge of Allegiance (although his original version was written without any reference to a god or a specific country for the 1892 World`s Fair celebration meant for schoolboy recital). As a Christian Socialist and author of a creed you love, his Pledge, expresses the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897)..
Read both Bellamys, they may appeal to you.
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https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html
Check out the bottom four countries... What do they all have in common?
Proves that countires that lean towards Democratic Socialism are the most profitable and solvent.
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Ok, I'm done here. Sorry Adam, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
You are wasting your time with canned definitions. You should also read Francis Bellamy. He is the Christian Socialist who created The Pledge of Allegiance (although his original version was written without any reference to a god or a specific country for the 1892 World`s Fair celebration meant for schoolboy recital). As a Christian Socialist and author of a creed you love, his Pledge, expresses the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897)..
Read both Bellamys, they may appeal to you.
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Proves that countires that lean towards Democratic Socialism are the most profitable and solvent.
The BOTTOM four countries invaded Iraq...
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let em go. forget general motors...generic name & horrible brand.
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The BOTTOM four countries invaded Iraq...
You would be more apt to realize the true nature of that statistic from the CIA factbook and realize that countries at the top tend towards Democratic Socialist models.
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I have no problem with the Big 3 as companies, the real problem is the unions and their greed. No one should be getting paid $70.00 to turn a wrench, sorry but that's just nonsense. Most of that money doesn't even go into the pockets of the workers it goes to the Unions. The unions have fucked up American car companies and need to go. When I said let them fail I do mean that, they need to go under and come back without unions being involved with them at all.
Emmortal,
I just came across this regarding the 70$ an hour myth. Please watch.
70 dollars an hour is NOT TRUE
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Emmortal,
I just came across this regarding the 70$ an hour myth. Please watch.
70 dollars an hour is NOT TRUE
the better way to compute it is in how much it costs the company per car to pay these benefits to both retirees and current workers and it's way higher for the US automakers than for the Japanese automakers.
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TA, what are your thoughts on labor unions?
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the better way to compute it is in how much it costs the company per car to pay these benefits to both retirees and current workers and it's way higher for the US automakers than for the Japanese automakers.
And this is due to the fact that we have no Universal Healthcare system whereas they do. The burden is then shifted on the corporation when they have to pay for Healtcare.
We can`t just stop benefits from people who worked their whole lives and paid into penisons and their healthcare.
We can alleviate the monetary burden off the corporations by billions if we institute a true National Healthcare system ala France, Norway, Germany, Japan etc...
The amount the Big 3 alone would save if we had Universal Healthcare in play could have potentially made any bailout completely unnecessary. Clearly it would make any future bailouts irrelevant.
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And this is due to the fact that we have no Universal Healthcare system whereas they do. The burden is then shifted on the corporation when they have to pay for Healtcare.
We can`t just stop benefits from people who worked their whole lives and paid into penisons and their healthcare.
We can alleviate the monetary burden off the corporations by billions if we institute a true National Healthcare system ala France, Norway, Germany, Japan etc...
The amount the Big 3 alone would save if we had Universal Healthcare in play could have potentially made any bailout completely unnecessary. Clearly it would make any future bailouts irrelevant.
i agree with you 110 percent on the universal healthcare, should be commonplace in a so called "civilized, first world" country.
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TA, what are your thoughts on labor unions?
Without them, the world and the United States would be further behind than we currently are in regards to fairness and equality. Robber-Barons simply cannot run rough-shod over the worker and expect to get away freely with it. It lowers the standard of living greatly as there will always be expendable schmucks to hire for lower wages. (we see this happening in other countries, cheap labor which equals a lower standard for all) They set a precedent that workers will be treated fairly with decent working conditions and with decent pay.. Pre-Labor union America was not a pretty or fair sight to witness.
Labor Unions also take over unemployment costs and benefits at times which in turn alleviates the burden from the employer.
Labor Unions do not require membership and many workers choose not to join. I support their right fully to organize.
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Without them, the world and the United States would be further behind than we currently are in regards to fairness and equality. Robber-Barons simply cannot run rough-shod over the worker and expect to get away freely with it. It lowers the standard of living greatly as there will always be expendable schmucks to hire for lower wages. (we see this happening in other countries, cheap labor which equals a lower standard for all) They set a precedent that workers will be treated fairly with decent working conditions and with decent pay.. Pre-Labor union America was not a pretty or fair sight to witness.
Labor Unions also take over unemployment costs and benefits at times which in turn alleviates the burden from the employer.
Labor Unions do not require membership and many workers choose not to join. I support their right fully to organize.
Completely false. This may have been true over 50 years ago but much legislation has been put forward to protect workers and their rights making labor unions an antiquated entity that is completely not needed. I do agree that pre-union America was not a pretty place, but that was long before we have the laws we have today which negate anything a union has to offer as far as fairness and equality.
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i agree with you 110 percent on the universal healthcare, should be commonplace in a so called "civilized, first world" country.
It is amazing how many problems Universal Healthcare would solve financially in regards to businesses of all sizes no longer having to shell out billions in Health Insurance.
Another interesting but little talked about plus with Universal Healthcare is the fact that it renders Car Insurance no longer a requirement. Since everyone is covered even in traffic accidents, no matter who is at fault, car insurance as a pre-requisite by law due to medical costs becomes obsolete. Car Insurance then switches over to becoming optional. If you value your car or think you may need insurance to pay for it, you insure it. Someone hits you, or you hit them, your car insurance covers it. If you choose not to insure your car and do not wish to have it paid for if something happens, then it falls solely into your own jurisdiction to pay for it. Car Insurance then operates like any other Insurance, Life, Fire, Flood, Home instead of the vast unfair constriction that it is today.
Auto Insurance is another drain on all americans and should be optional. With Universal Healthcare instated Auto Insurance becomes what it was meant to be, an option to get your car fixed if its broken and that is all. This becomes BILLIONS of dollars saved in a short time.
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Completely false. This may have been true over 50 years ago but much legislation has been put forward to protect workers and their rights making labor unions an antiquated entity that is completely not needed. I do agree that pre-union America was not a pretty place, but that was long before we have the laws we have today which negate anything a union has to offer as far as fairness and equality.
Why should workers not have the right to assemble? It is unconstitutional to not allow such assembly.
Corporations do have the right to turn a blind eye to Unions and some do, but they know they save and earn more money by allowing Unionization. Remember, Unionization is optional.
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Universal health care is not working well in alot of countries, thats why people from socialist countries come to america. We have 3-4 states here who's universal health care is failing. Imagine what it would do to the rest of the country. What is it with you people who want to pay an exorbitant about of taxes and want the government to run your lives? Thats not what the government is there for.
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hell i cant even get an appointment to see the ear doc till january
what they should allow is "backyard practices" very cool and futuristicly fitting in this "mad max" world thats its about to become...this way people can get fucking helped on time
and little tyrone and jerome in the fucking ghetto can go learn how to be a doctor in gradeschool and by highschool be an expert at it, not wasting time with lame classes like spanish and social studies
little fvcking tyrone would have a microscope and diagnose and tell other poor people whats wrong with them and help them right in the basement area of the project housing complex
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Universal health care is not working well in alot of countries, thats why people from socialist countries come to america. We have 3-4 states here who's universal health care is failing. Imagine what it would do to the rest of the country. What is it with you people who want to pay an exorbitant about of taxes and want the government to run your lives? Thats not what the government is there for.
Please provide hard data. You are operating on total myth and rhetoric. Nobody is coming over here en masse for any kind of healthcare. Furthermore, I can`t name a country that has Universal Healthcare and that it is failing.
The United States is THE ONLY industrialized nation to not have Universal Healthcare and our system is not even close to being the best.
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Thats not socialism, the profits were redistributed from oil companies not from wealthier private citizens. Thats distributing dividends from profit.
Sarah Palin used the S-word a lot during the campaign to motivate her base.
But in reality, she did condone it in her own state before the election, and attended a meeting with Obama after the election to ask for state bailout $.
She, like all governors and senators, believes in the tenets of socialism and does practice them. However, it made for a super-ifty campaign slogan, so she ran with it.
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Universal health care is not working well in alot of countries, thats why people from socialist countries come to america. We have 3-4 states here who's universal health care is failing. Imagine what it would do to the rest of the country. What is it with you people who want to pay an exorbitant about of taxes and want the government to run your lives? Thats not what the government is there for.
universal health care will never happen. The promise of it is what Dems use to get elected. The promise of preventing it is what Repubs use to get elected. The fact of the matter is, neither party cares about that 1/6 of the population with no coverage, and we'll never see it as a nation. It's a wedge issue with little bearing on our lives, but one that sure is fun to debate.
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this country is doomed to fail. better know to be your own mother fvcking doctor, its too fvcking bad if your stupid
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(http://www.gadling.com/media/2007/07/healthcareworldbig.jpg)
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why dont they make if fvking mandatory for the little bastard kids in highschool to become a doctor like 30 percent if its such a big problem.
this country is so fvckin gay a bunch of whiners whod get fatigued painting a few walls and pulling nails
the real problem in the future will be food shortage. this will effect the hard workers who require alot of food to do alot of THINGS
people dont get shit done sittng on there asses calling shots, maybe they have in the past and right now but in the future people are going to have to get up off there asses and do some fucking studying and real work in the feilds
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Countries that appear here in red, DO NOT have Universal Healthcare. America and Sierra Leone in Africa and Burma. :-\
(http://alessonaday.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/metric_system.jpg)
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Countries that appear here in red, DO NOT have Universal Healthcare. America and Africa. :-\
(http://alessonaday.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/metric_system.jpg)
if people are sick they better learn to heal themselves
i have a fvcked left ear and hurts i can barley hear out of it, im trying to fix it myself. ive been sick in many ways if i die i die, everyone should die if they cant figure out how to heal themselves. death/heaven is peaceful
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if people are sick they better learn to heal themselves
i have a fvcked left ear and hurts i can barley hear out of it, im trying to fix it myself. ive been sick in many ways if i die i die, everyone should die if they cant figure out how to heal themselves. death/heaven is peaceful
Great Mentality. Tell me how you would heal yourself if you have cancer. Better yet, contract a simple case of Pneumonia and see what happens without any medical attention.
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Great Mentality. Tell me how you would heal yourself if you have cancer. Better yet, contract a simple case of Pneumonia and see what happens without any medical attention.
Johnny is no human though. He is of a select falcon species, from Niburu.
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if people are sick they better learn to heal themselves
i have a fvcked left ear and hurts i can barley hear out of it, im trying to fix it myself. ive been sick in many ways if i die i die, everyone should die if they cant figure out how to heal themselves. death/heaven is peaceful
are you mentally held back friend?
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Great Mentality. Tell me how you would heal yourself if you have cancer. Better yet, contract a simple case of Pneumonia and see what happens without any medical attention.
cancer is from the body being too acidic. look it up evidence all over linking high acidity to cancer. cure cancer by making your body more alkaline-evidence for that too
if that doesnt work accept the karma and let it take its corse. its no like they have a majic pill cure for cancer anyways but there are routes in going about it one of them is making your body more alkaline. an acidic body is the perfect pot for cancer growth
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universal health care will never happen. The promise of it is what Dems use to get elected. The promise of preventing it is what Repubs use to get elected. The fact of the matter is, neither party cares about that 1/6 of the population with no coverage, and we'll never see it as a nation. It's a wedge issue with little bearing on our lives, but one that sure is fun to debate.
It will happen. First as a modified Universal Healthcare plan, then in time, a Single Payer system, bill H.R. 676. Insurance Companies are making the transition as we speak and all the votes are there in the House and the Senate to make it happen. No opposition.
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Great Mentality. Tell me how you would heal yourself if you have cancer. Better yet, contract a simple case of Pneumonia and see what happens without any medical attention.
I would cure myself by the healthful Application of nutritious Mc Donald's food stuffs, and a rigorous routine of high rep deadlifts, you ruffian!
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cancer is from the body being too acidic. look it up evidence all over linking high acidity to cancer. cure cancer by making your body more alkaline-evidence for that too
if that doesnt work accept the karma and let it take its corse. its no like they have a majic pill cure for cancer anyways but there are routes in going about it one of them is making your body more alkaline. an acidic body is the perfect pot for cancer growth
There is no evidence to back up those claims.
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prostate cancer
colon cancer
two main causes of death in men
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There is no evidence to back up those claims.
do a google search in the correlation with high acidity to cancer
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It will happen. First as a modified Universal Healthcare plan, then in time, a Single Payer system, bill H.R. 676. Insurance Companies are making the transition as we speak and all the votes are there in the House and the Senate to make it happen. No opposition.
Have you seen Sicko? In 1992 we heard how it was coming, then you seen the donations roll in and suddenly everyone just sat back and let the issue fall by the wayside. Would I like to see it? Sure. Do I think we will? No.
Coach, I know you shit on Michael Moore, and I hated his ass in 2004 and still can't stand him - he's an anti-gun prick - but in Sicko he does make some very valid points.
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"cancer research" and funding is another wonderful detour from the truth and scam . face it your rulers dont like you and only want u alive to help them.
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http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/12/04/health_insurers_lay_out_a_path_to_universal_care/
Health insurers lay out a path to universal care
Group calls for public-private partnership
December 4, 2008
WASHINGTON - Leaders of the nation's largest health insurance industry lobbying group yesterday announced a series of proposals they said would help achieve universal coverage, control costs, and improve the quality of care.
"The heart of our proposal is a public-private partnership that builds on the employer-based coverage that 170 million Americans rely on today," said James Roosevelt, Jr., the president and chief executive of Tufts Health Plan. "We have laid out a workable, realistic path to universal coverage. . . . We want to make sure no one falls through the cracks of our healthcare system because of age, health status, or income."
America's Health Insurance Plans, the organization that represents insurance companies covering some 200 million Americans, unveiled the plan at the National Press Club. The proposals - stated so generally that the group's president, Karen Ignagni, said they would be impossible to price - included recommendations for insuring everyone, containing costs, improving quality, and reducing administrative hassles for doctors.
Insurers oppose the creation of a Medicare-style public insurance option, which both President-elect Barack Obama and Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus have proposed, which they believe will force private companies to compete with the government on an uneven playing field. The insurers also do not support an employer mandate.
The ideas hinge on a proposal the lobbying group put forward last month: Insurers would agree to stop denying coverage to people because of preexisting conditions as long as all individuals were required by law to buy insurance. That would prevent people from buying insurance only when they need it and force younger and healthier people to share the cost of care for older and sicker people.
The insurers also proposed that regulations be revised so that basic high-deductible health insurance plans with a streamlined set of benefits would be available in all 50 states. The "essential benefits" plan would include coverage for wellness and disease management as well as chronic and acute care.
To help make coverage affordable to middle-class people, particularly the self-employed and those who work for small businesses, the government would give refundable tax credits on a sliding scale, according to income. Medicaid should cover everybody under the poverty level, the insurers said, and the State Children's Health Insurance Program should cover all children up to 300 percent of the poverty level.
To help control health costs, the insurers said, Congress should set a goal of reducing the growth of healthcare costs by as much as 30 percent over five years, for a savings of $500 billion, through steps including eliminating unnecessary treatments and paying doctors for better care, not more care.
The insurers' plan also calls for improving the quality of care by devoting more expertise and money to preventive and wellness care; investing in more research to determine the best treatment protocols and providing this information to doctors; and standardizing technology that is used to record and transmit patient information.
Health Care for America Now, a coalition of mostly left-leaning organizations, including the liberal group MoveOn, immediately issued a statement criticizing the insurers, saying their plan would still allow insurance companies to charge older and sicker people huge premiums and would do nothing to cap executive salaries.
But a spokesman for US Senator Edward M. Kennedy, whose staff has been meeting with the insurers and others to develop a reform initiatives, responded positively, saying, "The insurance industry has advanced serious proposals that deserve serious analysis and consideration."
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"cancer research" and funding is another wonderful detour from the truth and scam . face it your rulers dont like you and only want u alive to help them.
There is more money in keeping workers disease free and able to work, then there is money to be gained from cancer research. A cure would benefit the crux of your conspiracy theory moreso than not finding a cure.
Cancer Research is overly non-profit and operated on donation anyways which is a shame as it should be an order of National/Global security.
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Have you seen Sicko? In 1992 we heard how it was coming, then you seen the donations roll in and suddenly everyone just sat back and let the issue fall by the wayside. Would I like to see it? Sure. Do I think we will? No.
Coach, I know you shit on Michael Moore, and I hated his ass in 2004 and still can't stand him - he's an anti-gun prick - but in Sicko he does make some very valid points.
I love Sicko! I think we are now playing catch-up to the world and are more serious as a nation and in congress in regards to Universal Healthcare than in 1992.
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Getting back on topic....the ZR1 must be saved.
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Countries that appear here in red, DO NOT have Universal Healthcare. America and Sierra Leone in Africa and Burma. :-\
(http://alessonaday.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/metric_system.jpg)
Medicaid and Medicare don't qualify as some type of universal health care?
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I know this is a long read from PubMed, but bear with me. IT provides a great history of the fight for Universal Healthcare in the United States. Well worth the time to read it.
Abstract
Because of the importance of grassroots social movements, or “change from below,” in the history of US reform, the relationship between social movements and demands for universal health care is a critical one.
National health reform campaigns in the 20th century were initiated and run by elites more concerned with defending against attacks from interest groups than with popular mobilization, and grassroots reformers in the labor, civil rights, feminist, and AIDS activist movements have concentrated more on immediate and incremental changes than on transforming the health care system itself.
However, grassroots health care demands have also contained the seeds of a wider critique of the American health care system, leading some movements to adopt calls for universal coverage.
THE UNITED STATES IN THE 20th century witnessed the flowering of social movements demanding access to the American Dream. Women, workers, African Americans, seniors, and welfare recipients, to name just a few, organized to change a society that made them second-class citizens. Although each movement had its leaders, each relied on grassroots participation, or “change from below”: they were made up of ordinary people demanding reform, often on their own behalf.1
Yet no movement of comparable size or intensity has arisen in the United States to demand universal health care. Labor unions, senior citizens, socialists, and other groups have certainly participated in campaigns to redesign the health care system, but the campaigns themselves have most often been initiated and run by elite organizations and individuals with little connection to a popular base of support. Public opinion has generally run in favor of health care reform, but popular approval has not been matched by the rise of a large-scale, activist popular movement for change.2 Because of the importance of grassroots movements to reform in the United States, it is important to ask why there has never been such a movement for universal health care, and whether and how one may emerge now and in the future.
This article brings together some recent historical depictions of struggles for universal health care in the 20th century, with an emphasis on the role of popular mobilization—or lack thereof—in these struggles. It offers a new understanding of social movements and health care reform. Many grassroots movements, including the civil rights and women’s movements and those on behalf of people with particular diseases like AIDS, have demanded changes in the health care system. But their health care demands were for specific changes on behalf of their particular group, such as racial desegregation of hospitals, access to abortion, and the release of experimental AIDS drugs. These grassroots demands have not coalesced into a movement for universal health care. In fact, some scholars and reformers have seen such small-scale improvements in health care delivery as impediments to, or distractions from, more comprehensive reform.
But grassroots health care demands have also contained the seeds of a wider critique of the American health care system. Activists who worked for immediate and particular changes found that their experiences with health care led them to a new and urgent understanding of the need for major reform, and some eventually incorporated demands for universal access as part of their social movement agendas. By combining the history of national reform campaigns with that of grassroots activism for changes in the health care system, we can better see how these 2 types of movements have been kept apart, and also how they might come together.
TWENTIETH-CENTURY CAMPAIGNS FOR HEALTH CARE REFORM
Early in the 20th century, industrial America faced the “problem of sickness”: when working people missed work owing to ill health, they also lost their wages. This loss of income, even more than the cost of medical care, made sickness a major cause of poverty. In 1915, progressive reformers proposed a system of compulsory health insurance to protect workers against both wage loss and medical costs during sickness. The American Association for Labor Legislation’s (AALL) proposal, modeled on existing programs in Germany and England, was debated throughout the country and introduced as legislation in several states.
This early campaign for compulsory health insurance set a precedent for a continuing distance and lack of cooperation between reform leaders and popular movements. The AALL was a group of academic reformers who drafted their proposal without input from the working people it would cover. Samuel Gompers, president of the American Federation of Labor (AFL), thought workers should win their own benefits through union organizing rather than government action; he denounced the AALL for neglecting labor’s opinion and directed his membership to oppose the plan as elite paternalism. The health reformers chose a strategy of research and lobbying rather than political organizing; expertise, not popular pressure, would be their tool of persuasion. AALL leaders felt that the most important constituency for their bill was the medical profession, and they spent much of their energy persuading doctors to support the legislation—a cause that turned out to be futile in the face of practitioners’ fears that compulsory insurance would erode their incomes and independence.3
When reformers did look to the popular movements of the Progressive Era, they found substantial support for health insurance. The Socialist Party had endorsed a compulsory system as early as 1904, and in 1912 Theodore Roosevelt’s insurgent Progressive Party included a health insurance plank in its campaign platform. In New York and California, local labor leaders defied the AFL’s directive and threw their support behind the AALL’s plan, arguing that health insurance would protect both workers’ health and their wages. Women trade unionists and suffragists were intensely interested in the proposal because it included maternity benefits for women workers. In New York in 1919, women reformers adopted the AALL plan as part of a slate of bills to protect working women, and when suffragists joined with the New York State Federation of Labor in a mass march and rally on the state capitol, their demands included compulsory health insurance.
A somewhat bewildered AALL gratefully accepted this popular support, which led to their campaign’s first and only victory: a majority vote in the New York Senate. But when the powerful speaker of the house (antisocialist campaigner Thaddeus Sweet) killed the bill in committee, the first campaign for health insurance was over. Cooperation between elite reformers and popular movements had been too little and come too late to overcome a united opposition of physicians, businesses, insurance companies, and conservative legislators intent on branding health insurance “Bolshevism.”4
The emphasis of health reform shifted during the 1920s as medical care became both more effective and more expensive; soon, medical costs and access to care replaced wage support as reformers’ primary concern. But the character of reform leadership changed little, and health reformers continued to share the elite status of their predecessors. The most prominent reform group of the 1920s, the Committee on the Costs of Medical Care (CCMC), which was financed by large foundations and made up of physicians, academic economists, and representatives of private interest groups, again relied on research rather than popular mobilization. The CCMC’s modest proposals for group medicine and voluntary insurance were denounced by the American Medical Association (AMA) as “socialized medicine,” but the battle was fought in the pages of newspapers and academic journals, with no attempt to enlist ordinary people as advocates for the reformers’ recommendations.5
The Great Depression was a time of extraordinary popular upheaval, as farmers, workers, the unemployed, veterans, elderly Americans, socialists, and communists organized and marched in the streets and on Washington calling for relief and justice.6 The demands of these New Deal–era social movements centered on economic security for workers and the aged; at the height of the depression, the ravages of unemployment and national economic collapse commanded more immediate attention than did the cost of medical care. For example, the Lundeen bill, an alternative to the Social Security Act drafted by Minnesota’s radical Farmer–Labor Party, outlined a program of social insurance for all workers, including wage replacement for those “unable to work because of sickness,” but it made no mention of medical care or health insurance.7 With unemployment crowding out health care as a social movement priority, health reformers needed to make a concerted effort to persuade social activists to join their crusade.
But New Deal health reformers remained out of touch with the grassroots. In the 1930s, some CCMC leaders became political insiders as they joined the committees charged by President Franklin D. Roosevelt with creating proposals for health care to add to the Social Security Act (the Committee on Economic Security and the Technical Committee on Medical Care). These New Deal committees worked mostly in secret, isolated from public input and debate. Their members were constantly on alert for attacks from the medical profession and business, and this caution led to less-than-sweeping proposals for health reform; both committees recommended federal subsidies to states rather than a national system. But even these reforms raised the ire of physicians, and Roosevelt so feared attacks by the AMA that he dropped health coverage from his New Deal agenda.8 Because New Deal insiders did little to win grassroots participation and support, their cautious and technical proposals for health care restructuring failed to capture the imaginations of ordinary Americans. And without pressure from a strong social movement on behalf of medical insurance, Roosevelt bowed to the AMA rather than to health reformers.
In the 1940s, new potential for grassroots mobilization arose when organized labor became a major backer of national health insurance. As the cost of medical care began eating up more of the average worker’s budget, both the AFL and the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) took leadership roles in the struggle for health reform. In 1943, labor unions joined the reformerexperts of the Committee for the Nation’s Health and liberal administration officials in drafting the Wagner–Murray–Dingell bill (named for its congressional sponsors), the major health insurance legislation of the Truman era. This bill proposed a national medical insurance program financed through social security payroll taxes, and it enjoyed the strong support of Harry S. Truman.
During the struggle over Wagner–Murray–Dingell, the opportunity to mobilize a broad-based movement was once again lost. Labor leaders and policy intellectuals believed they could make change from within the system and so did not need the organized activity of union members to back up their efforts. The “failure of union leaders to enlist union members in the battle,” historian Alan Derickson argues, was “a crucial flaw in the campaign for health security.” Both AFL and CIO leaders, aiming for a place in the postwar power structure, “discouraged rank-and-file initiatives” and “never considered grassroots mass mobilization.” The lack of rank-and-file participation greatly weakened the cause of union-led health reform as it became associated with “union bosses” rather than ordinary workers. The other major reform backer, the Committee for the Nation’s Health, a successor to the CCMC with many of the same members, also decided not to solicit grassroots participation on behalf of the Wagner–Murray–Dingell bill, arguing that it lacked the funds to organize local branches.9
Reformers needed all the help they could get to fight an unprecedented onslaught by the AMA. After Truman’s electoral victory in 1948, the doctors’ organization spent over $1 million on an anti–health reform public relations blitz that included advertising, television and radio spots, telegram and letter-writing campaigns, and the lobbying of legislators by their own personal physicians. Unlike reformers, AMA members successfully reached out to the grassroots with “doctor-to-patient” letters denouncing the Wagner–Murray– Dingell bill.10 And in the midst of the Cold War, health reformers’ insider status made them vulnerable to opponents who saw a Soviet-inspired conspiracy for “socialized medicine” at the very heart of the federal government. Prospects for the passage of the health bill vanished when most of its congressional supporters were unseated in 1950 with the help of the AMA’s campaign.11
By then, organized labor’s attention had turned elsewhere. Unions were increasingly winning health benefits for their members through collective bargaining agreements with employers, so the need for national reform seemed less urgent. The failure of national health legislation further encouraged labor to pursue private solutions, while these solutions themselves, by meeting the needs of at least some of America’s workers, made it more difficult to argue for systemic change. Organized labor would continue to be a major supporter of universal health care proposals, particularly through Walter Reuther’s Committee for National Health Insurance in the 1970s. But, “because most of the working-class constituency for social insurance had been accommodated [through private coverage], the potential for building a mass movement . . . dwindled.”12
Possibilities for grassroots mobilization resurfaced in the 1960s during the debate over Medicare. Health reformers had been working on a plan for medical coverage of the elderly for a decade when the idea was adopted by John F. Kennedy and his successor, Lyndon Johnson. The outpouring of civil rights activity in the early 1960s spurred politicians to support Medicare as part of Johnson’s War on Poverty, and major civil rights groups all endorsed the legislation.13 Organized labor was again a strong supporter of health reform, not just to ensure care for the uninsurable but also “to eliminate the increasingly costly problem of negotiating health benefits for [union] retirees.” The AFL-CIO created the National Council of Senior Citizens, made up of retired union members, to publicly campaign for Medicare. The organization soon expanded to include other retiree groups. The council launched petition drives and letter-writing campaigns and, writes sociologist Jill Quadagno, “endeavored to create the sense of a grassroots political movement.” Retirees disseminated “millions” of pieces of literature in an attempt to thwart AMA propaganda, and 14 000 seniors marched down the boardwalk at the 1964 Democratic Convention in Atlantic City.14 Americans were highly sympathetic toward the elderly as a group, which made it harder for the AMA and other opponents “to engage in open warfare” against health reform, and in July 1965 Medicare became part of the Social Security Act.15
The organization of senior citizens on behalf of Medicare signaled the rise of a significant new reform constituency. Although initiated by trade unions, the pro-Medicare retiree groups succeeded in mobilizing ordinary senior citizens who sought health reform based on their own experiences in a system that denied them insurance coverage. Even after Medicare’s passage, which may have quieted some discontent among the elderly, seniors continued to be major supporters of reform. In the 1970s the National Council of Senior Citizens and other seniors’ groups joined the labor-led Committee for National Health Insurance (CNHI) and worked hard for the passage of a plan co-sponsored by Senator Edward Kennedy.
The CNHI reached out to an impressive number of civil rights and antipoverty groups, but still relied on professional staff, conferences, and Washington-based lobbying, not on grassroots activism. Comprehensive reform was again weakened by interest-group squabbles; the CNHI bill competed with 13 other health insurance proposals, including ones sponsored by the AMA and commercial insurance companies, and reform lost momentum when the massive health care inflation of the 1970s led to an emphasis on cost control rather than on expanding coverage.16 But as the number of uninsured began to rise in the 1980s, public discontent intensified. In 1992, when Bill Clinton rode into the White House on a wave of popular support for major changes in the health care system, the potential for mass mobilization around universal coverage had never seemed greater.
But again, the opportunity was squandered. The Clinton administration relied on the same elite-based decisionmaking that had isolated previous reform efforts from grassroots influence. Activists complained that the secretive Clinton Health Care Task Force, made up of policy experts and led by Hillary Clinton and the president’s close friend Ira Magaziner, “completely controlled” the drafting of the Health Security bill and only later turned to citizen groups asking for support “for a plan that they’ve already written.”16
And the plan itself dismayed potential supporters. Clinton, fearful of business and insurance company opposition, proposed a dauntingly complex system of “health alliances” that would preserve both employer-based coverage and the commercial insurance industry. Advocates for universal health coverage argued that this model would increase the power of private insurers and take away patients’ choice of doctors. One physician-activist dubbed the plan the “Health Insurance Industry Protection Act of 1993,” and another agreed that managed competition “won’t control costs and the entire health care system will be owned by a handful of insurance giants.”17 And the nearly 1400-page proposal was far too complicated and confusing to inspire a popular movement on its behalf; activists concluded that “few could, or should, rally to this banner.”18
While the mainstream AFL-CIO approved the Clinton plan for meeting its goal of worker coverage through an employer mandate, many grassroots organizations supported more comprehensive, universal reform modeled on the Canadian “single-payer” system, in which tax-funded government payments to providers would replace employer health benefits and the private insurance industry. The Gray Panthers, the Consumers’ Union, mental and public health groups, and progressive labor unions decided to back an alternative single-payer bill in Congress, and the group Citizens’ Action organized supporters to send 1 million postcards favoring a single-payer system to the White House.19 But the single-payer coalition was divided and weakened by its groups’ varying commitments to grassroots organizing. Some labor unions wanted to run a vigorous campaign including mass mailings and a cross-country bus caravan, but 2 powerful unions, the United Automobile Workers and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, balked: they did not want to be seen as attacking the new Clinton administration, which depended on labor support. Like other labor leaders before them, union officials “reportedly told other health care activists that they would only work from ‘inside’ the Clinton team to influence the course of health reform.”20 Without a mass base of support, the Clinton Health Security bill fell before its powerful and wellfinanced opposition.
This brief overview of some 20th-century reform efforts reveals that 2 major explanations for their defeat—the power of private interest groups to block reform and reformers’ failure to inspire grassroots activism—are inextricably connected. The relentless opposition of medical, business, and insurance interests pushed reformers to design health care proposals around placating their opponents more than winning popular support. In turn, ordinary people had trouble rallying around complex proposals that emphasized administrative design and federalist fragmentation rather than a universal right to basic health care.
None of these major reform attempts was initiated or fought primarily at the grassroots level. The problem in 1994 was not much different from that in 1949 or 1918: reformers put their faith in expertise and professional lobbying rather than popular activism. Writing on the defeat of 1940s health legislation, Alan Derickson argues that “by relying on . . . progressive lobbying groups” such as the liberal Physicians Forum, reformers “unwittingly contributed to the perception that the goal of universal health care, an element of the general welfare, was merely an object of interest group maneuvering.” Another scholar points out that during the Clinton health campaign, the reform environment was “dominated by advocacy groups,” professionally run organizations mostly based in Washington, that were “accustomed to insider lobbying rather than popular political mobilization.”21 Important as they are in the US political system, coalitions of professionalized reform groups are not the same thing as people’s movements.
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GRASSROOTS MOVEMENTS AND HEALTH CARE REFORM
There has been a gap between health care reformers and their potential constituencies, a gap that has created a significant obstacle to popular mobilization on behalf of universal health care. But a large part of the story still needs to be told. If we stop using only the well-known campaigns for national health coverage as a yardstick, grassroots activism and social movements for health care reform become much more apparent.
By grassroots health care activism, I mean movements that include, and are sometimes led by, patients or potential health care consumers, themselves. As opposed to elite health reform, which has relied on research and expertise, health care activism is rooted in people’s experiences with the health care system. Examples from the 20th century include workers’ attempts to establish medical cooperatives and clinics, civil rights activists’ demands for greater racial equality in health care, feminist challenges to gender bias in medicine, and the activism of particular groups of patients, including people with AIDS, breast cancer, and disabilities.
These types of activism have ostensibly focused on a single issue (such as abortion or desegregation) or on demanding benefits for one particular group (such as AIDS patients or the disabled). The reforms they advocated, and in many cases won, made important changes in the health care system but, arguably, did not alter the nature of the system itself. These movements, then, might be described as part of the tradition of pluralism or incrementalism in American health politics, which has generally been seen as an impediment to large-scale reform.22 But the dichotomy between particular and universal reform is sometimes a false one. Through their experiences in the medical system and also their experiences with activism, members of social movements for health reform repeatedly concluded that their demands could be fully realized only with universal access to health care. A recurring theme of health care activist movements has been the broadening of their single-issue and particular demands to include fundamental change in the US health care system.
This theme can be traced as far back as 1913, when the International Ladies’ Garment Workers’ Union (ILGWU) established a Union Health Center in New York City to treat urban clothing workers, who had a high incidence of tuberculosis and other health problems. The Union Health Center was different from physician- and employer-initiated clinics in that it was created and staffed by those who would be using the health care themselves. As the union members who ran the center cared for workers’ immediate health problems, they came to see the need for more universal provision.
Former garment worker Pauline Newman, who headed the Union Health Center for 5 decades, argued that union-run health care threw into sharp relief the vastly greater needs of the unorganized. “[T]he great mass of workers are not in any position to look after their own sickness and their own problems,” said Newman in 1917. “That is why [the ILGWU] is in favor of health insurance and social insurance. We can take care of ourselves, but who are we? A mere hundred and fifty thousand.” Newman and the ILGWU were the most active union supporters of Progressive Era compulsory insurance proposals, and Newman continued to advocate universal health care for the rest of her long life. Similarly, the Western Miners’ Federation, which established a worker-run hospital system early in the century, passed strong endorsements of compulsory health insurance in the 1910s.23 Unlike in the post-1945 era, these private benefits schemes did not draw unions’ energies away from advocating broader reforms; rather, they inspired a comprehensive critique of a health care system that left so many workers without access to medical care or sick pay.
Civil rights activism has often been at odds with elite-led campaigns for health reform. Progressive Era and New Deal reformers deliberately left the mostly Black agricultural and domestic workforce out of their schemes, and the Committee on the Costs of Medical Care excluded Black households from its studies.24 For much of the 20th century, racial discrimination deprived African Americans of basic health care and forced them to concentrate on building their own institutions, like fraternal societies, life insurance companies, and community public health movements.25 And civil rights activists rightly distrusted reform proposals that either explicitly maintained segregation or ensured inequality by other means, such as giving states control over health provision. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), for example, supported the Wagner–Murray–Dingell bill only reluctantly because the proposal lacked “ ‘safeguards’ to ensure ‘equitable distribution of funds in the states where Negroes and whites [were] forced to use separate hospitals, clinics and other health services.’ ” Decades later, civil rights organizations feared that some aspects of Clinton’s Health Security bill, including the emphasis on employer-sponsored coverage and the inclusion of private insurance companies with their long history of racial “redlining,” might hurt African Americans.26
Still, the goal of universal health care has been an integral part of civil rights agendas. For many civil rights activists, the fight against segregation was inseparable from demands for national health care. Physician and NAACP leader Dr Montague Cobb in 1947 called for the National Medical Association, the organization of Black doctors, to attack racial discrimination in medical care, and also demanded a “vigorous and forthright confirmation” of national health insurance. The NAACP, the National Medical Association, and the Urban League have been longtime, if critical, supporters of proposals for universal medical coverage.27
Civil rights activists have recognized that desegregation in and of itself is insufficient to bring about racial equality in health care. Activist physicians formed the Medical Committee on Human Rights in 1964 to give medical aid to civil rights workers in the South, but they quickly became involved in fighting “inadequacies in health care” in the North as well.28 After winning the hard-fought battle for hospital integration in the mid-1960s, civil rights activists confronted the daunting problems still faced by low-income African Americans in getting medical care. Hospital limitations on care for the poor, and the refusal of many hospitals and physicians to accept Medicaid, demonstrated the link between economic and racial barriers to access. Civil rights groups initiated a series of class-action suits demanding that federally financed hospitals accept more poor patients and continue to serve inner-city neighborhoods rather than fleeing to the suburbs.29 As Black communities were ravaged by epidemics of hypertension, diabetes, and infant mortality, national civil rights organizations helped local activists set up neighborhood health clinics and demonstration projects. Like union clinics earlier in the century, the local health care projects of the 1960s and 1970s worked not only to address immediate needs but also to spread the idea of universal access—the idea that, as one Urban League clinic poster stated, “Good health is a right, not a privilege.”30
The women’s health movement of the 1960s and 1970s is better known for its powerful critique of the sexism of the medical profession than for its advocacy of universal access. Yet feminists early on drew connections between the nature of the health care system and its treatment of women. In 1971, the first edition of the feminist classic Our Bodies, Ourselves argued that profit-driven medicine had led to an epidemic of unnecessary hysterectomies while women without access to primary care died of preventable cervical and uterine cancers. The authors declared, “We believe that health care is a human right and that a society should provide free health care for itself. Health care cannot be adequate as long as it is conceived of as insurance. . . . Health care for everyone is possible only outside of the profit system.”31
Feminists’ demands for safe and legal abortion have been portrayed as emphasizing individual rights, especially since the Supreme Court based its Roe v Wade decision on a “right to privacy,” which some scholars have argued precluded the establishment of a “medical entitlement” to abortion.32 But abortion rights activism could lead to a broader critique of the health care system. In one example, the Young Lords Party, one of the few Puerto Rican nationalist organizations to support abortion access, vocally protested the 1970 death of a Puerto Rican woman during a legal abortion in a New York City hospital. Her treatment at the hands of the public hospital system “proved that legal abortion was not the answer for poor and Third World women who did not have access to quality health care,” and the Young Lords demanded “community control” of city health care institutions.33 Reproductive rights activists found that in a stratified health care system, access to safe and legal abortion was a right in name only.
The women’s health movement has greatly influenced campaigns for national health care. In the early 1970s, the labor-led Committee for National Health Insurance held the first conference on women and universal health care. At that and later conferences, feminist perspectives increasingly altered the reform agenda. Women labor leaders and others noted that the majority of the underinsured and uninsured were women, and that employment-based health coverage implicitly discriminated against women, who were heavily concentrated in sectors with no benefits: part-time, temporary, service, and small business employment and homemaking. Feminists criticized the health care system’s emphasis on high-tech hospital treatment at the expense of primary and preventive care. During the Clinton health reform campaign, the Older Women’s League organized a Campaign for Women’s Health to demand that health reform include primary, preventive, and long-term care and coverage for mental health, HIV testing and counseling, domestic violence screening, and full reproductive health care and family planning. Several of the women’s demands were incorporated into the Health Security bill.34
At no time has the connection between grassroots movements and health care reform been more powerful, and more successful, than during the AIDS crisis. The activism of people with AIDS and HIV fighting for their very lives led to unprecedented changes in the health care system, including speeded-up drug trials, pharmaceutical price reductions, and large increases in AIDS research and funding. AIDS activists’ targeting of researchers and drug companies has been highly publicized and documented.35 Less noticed has been the AIDS community’s growing concern with inequities in the health care system.
ACT UP, the radical organization of people with AIDS and their supporters founded in 1987, at first protested against health and disability insurance companies with HIV exclusions in their policies. But even when some of this blatant discrimination was curbed, most people with AIDS and HIV still could not get access to private insurance because of its extraordinarily high cost. ACT UP’s New York branch formed an Insurance and Access Committee to fight insurance rate increases, and activists began to target insurance companies with highly visible “street theater” actions, including civil disobedience in front of insurance headquarters in New York and the National Insurance Association in Washington, DC. When increasing numbers of people with AIDS were forced to turn to Medicaid, ACT UP worked to expand Medicaid benefits to include important AIDS services and treatments.36
Activists soon became frustrated with these incremental improvements and began to argue for deeper change in the health care system. At a “People of Color AIDS Activist Conference” in 1990, participants were asked to address the continuing problem of “PWAs [people with AIDS] being denied access to life saving services and primary health care” and to consider the question, “What are we doing about the establishment of National Health Care?” ACT UP–New York’s Insurance and Access Committee released the statement, “We believe that in a country with as much [sic] resources as we have that quality health care is a right,” and in 1991 it launched a publicity campaign featuring a poster that read, “Lack of Insurance Kills People with AIDS: Lack of insurance means lack of access to health care, and lack of health care means death.”37
AIDS activists appeared to have won a major victory in 1990 with the passage of the Ryan White CARE Act, which provided significant financing for AIDS services, including primary health care. But conservatives in Congress initially refused to release the funds, using the argument that “they don’t want to take money away from other people who also need it.” ACT UP, infuriated by the legislators’ stance, called for national health insurance, which “should circumvent this debate by guaranteeing treatment and medical care to every American whatever they need.” Only universal coverage would ensure that patients with different diseases and conditions would not be pitted against each other. “National health care is just morally right,” AIDS activists concluded. “That our country has gone so long without it is a scandal.” ACT UP and other AIDS organizations joined state-level and national health reform coalitions and organized marches on Washington to demand universal health care in 1992 and 1993.38 Winning increased health care rights for some led these grassroots activists to see the need for health care rights for all.
TOWARD A SOCIAL MOVEMENT FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE
Even though a significant number of grassroots movements have advocated universal health care, until recently national health care reformers have had few connections with these constituencies. The distance between elite and grassroots health campaigns, as we have seen, is partly explained by reform leaders’ lack of knowledge of, lack of interest in, or outright exclusion of popular reform constituencies and grassroots organizing strategies. But much of the explanation also lies with the nature of the social movements themselves. For movement activists, other demands have been more urgent, immediate, and even life-and-death than long-term change in the health care system—the right to organize for the labor movement, desegregation for the civil rights movement, reproductive rights for the feminist movement, disease research and drug access for the AIDS advocacy movement. And immediate, local, and incremental reforms have been more politically feasible than more comprehensive change.
But the distance between expert and grassroots health reform has not been insurmountable. Since the social upheavals of the 1960s, health care reform organizations have increasingly recognized the importance of grassroots participation to their cause. From the Health Policy Advisory Center, founded by New Left activists, to today’s Universal Health Care Action Network (UHCAN), created in the aftermath of the Clinton health debate, health reformers have either emerged from or worked closely with grassroots groups and have incorporated community-organizing techniques to build support. Reform proposals are still generated primarily by professional advocacy organizations, but these have increasingly gone beyond the labor–reformer coalition to embrace other popular constituencies, including public health and social workers, nurses, seniors, religious activists, and people with particular diseases or disabilities. While physician health reformers from the 1910s through the 1950s based their appeals on their expert status rather than popular mobilization, reformist doctors now reach out to the wider community as much as to their fellow professionals. The most prominent medical reform organization, Physicians for a National Health Program, founded in 1987 to advocate a single-payer health system, emphasizes its members’ efforts to “work closely with grassroots consumers’, seniors’, and disability rights organizations.”39
Since the end of the Clinton health care campaign, public discontent with the medical system and frustration with traditional reform efforts have led to an upsurge in state-level grassroots activism. Health reform movements are currently active in over a dozen states, from California to Maryland.40 These ballot initiatives and political campaigns for universal coverage appeal to an increasingly diverse support base. Organizers of Oregon’s single-payer Health Care for All initiative, for example, have won the endorsements of groups representing teachers, medical students, churches, tenants, seniors, African Americans, alternative health practitioners, women, and environmentalists, as well as labor unions.41
Even as they expand their constituencies, most state reform campaigns continue to emphasize coalitions of professional advocacy groups as the centerpiece of their organizing strategies.42 In contrast, the activists of Maine’s Citizen’s Health Initiative have chosen to build membership through door-to-door canvassing of individuals rather than the endorsements of the already organized. Maine reformers used these organizing methods, based in the US social movement tradition, to win a major victory: in November 2001, Portland voters approved, 52% to 48%, a nonbinding referendum calling for universal health care in the state. The referendum passed even though opponents, as usual, greatly outspent supporters. The Maine health care reform movement has also adopted ACT UP– style street actions to dramatize its call for universal coverage. When Anthem Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Maine created an insurance-industry front group to fight health reform, activists staged a “raucous” march and rally in front of the company’s Portland headquarters. “Shouting and carrying signs,” the “largely young crowd” chanted “Hey hey, ho ho, corporate health care’s got to go” and booed life-size puppets of insurance executives. Although statewide single-payer legislation failed, Maine legislators plan to reintroduce it in 2003.43
Today’s health care reform movement is diverse in organizing style, membership, and tactics, and even in its goals. Although most campaigns push for a single-payer system, some, including UHCAN and the Maryland Citizens’ Health Initiative, argue that universal coverage could be achieved by other financing methods.44 Whatever their differences, state and national reform groups all agree that a movement for universal health care must rely on grassroots mobilization and the support and participation of local activists. This recurring theme appears in a recent UHCAN announcement: “One key lesson UHCAN has learned in our ten years is that to change the health care system, we need a nationally coordinated movement with deep roots all over the country—roots that extend into the faith community, the labor movement, the health provider sector, and other places where people come together who care about health care justice.”45
Advocates also agree that the constituency for universal access is growing as changes in the health care system break down some of the forces that have fragmented popular support for reform. Employer cutbacks and layoffs are heightening the instability of job-based health coverage. Medicare’s limitations are increasingly obvious as more people enter the system, as health maintenance organizations (HMOs) have dropped Medicare enrollees, and as some doctors have begun to reject Medicare patients as too costly. State budget crises are forcing drastic cuts in Medicaid.46 The workers, seniors, and poor families who were formerly protected by job benefits, Medicare, and Medicaid now have more in common with the uninsured and the underinsured.
State-level campaigns for universal coverage have greater potential for grassroots mobilization than the “patients’ rights” proposals currently languishing in Congress. While patients’ rights has been described as a “consumer movement” of HMO members, this simply points to its limitations. Consumer identity can be a powerful organizing force,47 but basing health care demands on people’s roles as consumers still narrows the constituency for reform: to consume health care, one must have access to it. A consumer-based movement is not necessarily more inclusive than a movement of seniors, of welfare participants, of AIDS or breast cancer patients, or even of the uninsured and underinsured. Like other piecemeal reforms, patients’ rights only leads to the question of why some, but not all, deserve access to health care. State-level reform campaigns, wielding slogans like “Health Care for All” and “Everybody In, Nobody Out,” are working to unify, rather than separate, their potential supporters. “You can’t build a social movement with a Band-Aid philosophy,” argues 73-year-old Ohio single-payer activist and former civil rights worker Jerry Gordon. “Where would civil rights be, with that kind of attitude?”48
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Medicaid and Medicare don't qualify as some type of universal health care?
You have to meet requirements, over 65 or a certain income level and therefore it is not Universal and open to all citizens and non-citizens. Whereas, say if you were visiting Germany, and you got very sick, you would be given treatment even though you are not a citizen. You do not have to meet any requirements.
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There is more money in keeping workers disease free and able to work, then there is money to be gained from cancer research. A cure would benefit the crux of your conspiracy theory moreso than not finding a cure.
Cancer Research is overly non-profit and operated on donation anyways which is a shame as it should be an order of National/Global security.
you know with all the money going to that research they havent found /done a damn thing
i think two jerkoffs like me or you would do a better job researching cancer
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TA, what are your thoughts on labor unions?
Here is a good response to that question in which I agree with.
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Here is a good response that I agree with.
Adonis you're such a big Michael Moore fan, does it bother you that he is obese? you should put him on the principles
maybe it will help the health industry if he got on a treadmill and lost some weight
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you know with all the money going to that research they havent found /done a damn thing
i think two jerkoffs like me or you would do a better job researching cancer
I don't mean to push it, but urine therapy ("autourotherapy") is a cure for cancer as well. I know this is hard to read, but just to slip you guys some references look at the bottom of this paper from 1997:
http://www.csen.com/cancer-urotherapy/
"Urotherapy is suggested as a new kind of immunotherapy for
cancer patients. Unlike the clonal immunotherapy the urine
of the cancer patients contain the many tumor antigens which
constitute the tumor. Oral auto-urotherapy will provide the
intestinal lymphatic system the tumor antigens against which
they may produce antibodies due to non-self recognition.
These antibodies may be transpierced through the blood
stream and attack the tumor and its cells."
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I don't mean to push it, but urine therapy ("autourotherapy") is a cure for cancer as well. I know this is hard to read, but just to slip you guys some references look at the bottom of this paper from 1997:
http://www.csen.com/cancer-urotherapy/
"Urotherapy is suggested as a new kind of immunotherapy for
cancer patients. Unlike the clonal immunotherapy the urine
of the cancer patients contain the many tumor antigens which
constitute the tumor. Oral auto-urotherapy will provide the
intestinal lymphatic system the tumor antigens against which
they may produce antibodies due to non-self recognition.
These antibodies may be transpierced through the blood
stream and attack the tumor and its cells."
i bet it works god is weird like that
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maybe you should try it and tell us how it tastes :D
I never knew I could go to the bathroom, pee and cure my friend's cancer, or else I would have :'(
I drink as much of my own urine as I can every day, upjacked. It's usually 6-8 cups, because some places don't allow it.
Read this:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=250772.0
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Adonis you're such a big Michael Moore fan, does it bother you that he is obese? you should put him on the principles
maybe it will help the health industry if he got on a treadmill and lost some weight
It does bother me, because I could have him lean in a relative short period of time. I have his latest book and I take STRONG issue against his thoughts regarding corn syrup and obesity. He needs a bit more education in this area as do most Americans and many even on this board. I like these ads:
Total shame how dumb people are that these need to be created.
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i bet it works god is weird like that
I'm not terribly religious; I've formed my own concept of god, but it's funny you say that;
this is actually mentioned in the bible a few times, people just ignore it because they only hear what they want to:
"Drink water from your own cistern, flowing water from your own well." (The Book of Proverbs 5:15)
"But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?" (Isaiah 36:12) (See also 2 Kings 18:27)
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you drink your own urine everyday? :o 6-8 cups? :o
you're educated, I expected more from you >:( :(
You're right, I am highly educated, which is exactly why I do it.
Again, just go read the thread. That's all you have to do, read the thread and you'll understand... ;)
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you drink your own urine everyday? :o 6-8 cups? :o
you're educated, I expected more from you >:( :(
typical reaction of an average thought process
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I'm not terribly religious; I've formed my own concept of god, but it's funny you say that;
this is actually mentioned in the bible a few times, people just ignore it because they only hear what they want to:
"Drink water from your own cistern, flowing water from your own well." (The Book of Proverbs 5:15)
"But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?" (Isaiah 36:12) (See also 2 Kings 18:27)
good stuff man you are a great poster btw definitly a 1st teir getbigger and i say this with no funnybuisness attached, one of they few crew of good guys here
the problem with guys like adonis is they have a good heart, but fight to the death to prove something THERE way and not the best way or right way, they simply leave a discussion not to collaborate with others on different options to solve a problem, his heart isnt open enough but adonis is a good guy still with a bit of that hateful chip many cary whether they are aware of it or not
just look at his posts along with others starting threads about guys in a negative light. why even waste time with that sort of thing adonis (ie john romano thread) where does a negative thought pattern like that do for you?
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good stuff man you are a great poster btw definitly a 1st teir getbigger and i say this with no funnybuisness attached, one of they few crew of good guys here
Thanks Johnny, you've made me think about a lot of things too and made my time here much more interesting than it would have been without you. ;D
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Thanks Johnny, you've made me think about a lot of things too and made my time here much more interesting than it would have been without you. ;D
thank you may we now have virtual sex with these virtual reality females in a quest for offspring intelligent like us my friend
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/colombuena.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/l_e4cb783ae9a44f55a70af492356f10a0.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/l_6acc1483c30ad3742a5237a6707432-2.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/l_e8eebb48b9b5099b1b9f4ec483eefada.jpg)
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Thanks Johnny, you've made me think about a lot of things too and made my time here much more interesting than it would have been without you. ;D
thank you may we now have virtual sex with these virtual reality females in a quest for offspring intelligent like us my friend
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/colombuena.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/l_e4cb783ae9a44f55a70af492356f10a0.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/l_6acc1483c30ad3742a5237a6707432-2.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/l_e8eebb48b9b5099b1b9f4ec483eefada.jpg)
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Nice, Johnny.
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JF those are some ugly girls ??? :-X
You wouldn't fuck those girls, upjacked? The last 3 are def hot.
Did you read the thread yet?
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not the first or last one, I'd do the middle two girls
no I have not read it, I just started to read it right now. The idea of drinking your own urine is just wrong
it's basically waste product that your body got rid of, and now you're drinking it back
totally not logical
It is right, and it is logical. That's why I keep asking you to read it. Don't just give your opinion, read it first.
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It is right, and it is logical. That's why I keep asking you to read it. Don't just give your opinion, read it first.
I read all of it, and ........................ ...............you're wrong
I like the way Nercosis owned you ;)
I thought you were a pretty smart guy, this is the most stupid shit EVER! :-\
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Countries that appear here in red, DO NOT have Universal Healthcare. America and Sierra Leone in Africa and Burma. :-\
(http://alessonaday.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/metric_system.jpg)
And thats why we are the superpower of the world, thats why other countries come to us to for finacial aid, thats why people from other countries come to us for health care. You put universal health care in place, you will see doctor defaulting on student loans, you see less people wanting to become doctors. Like teachers, they better just get into medicine to help people and not for the money. Take a look at Kaiser health care, most of their doctors suck, you have to wait anywhere from 4-8 weeks to get an appointment and the misdiagnosis of many ailments are off the hook. Not only that, the higher taxes that Obama wants to impose doesn't even cover the cost of 'universal health care".
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Here is a good response to that question in which I agree with.
This fat fuck offers ziltch credibility as with all communists.
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I read all of it, and ........................ ...............you're wrong
I like the way Nercosis owned you ;)
I thought you were a pretty smart guy, this is the most stupid shit EVER! :-\
Just give me a minute to respond, buddy, I've now provided him with 31 articles to disprove his claim. ;)
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Countries that appear here in red, DO NOT have Universal Healthcare. America and Sierra Leone in Africa and Burma. :-\
(http://alessonaday.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/metric_system.jpg)
that's some real bullshit, you're telling us that all other countries in the world have universal health care? ::)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHA
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Countries that appear here in red, DO NOT have Universal Healthcare. America and Sierra Leone in Africa and Burma. :-\
(http://alessonaday.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/metric_system.jpg)
Since when does Alaska qualify as it's own country. I thought you said it was socialist?
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Since when does Alaska qualify as it's own country. I thought you said it was socialist?
it doesn't, it's part of USA, that's why it's red, just thought to let you know ;)
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it doesn't, it's part of USA, that's why it's red, just thought to let you know ;)
LOL.....I know, the title says "Countries that appear in red"
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LOL.....I know, the title says "Countries that appear in red"
it would be silly to leave part of the US map unshaded, wouldn't it?
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Fuck you libs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm joining the political forum at www.JOELOCALPT.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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it would be silly to leave part of the US map unshaded, wouldn't it?
if Sarah Palin governs it, we might as well leave it unshaded ;D
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it would be silly to leave part of the US map unshaded, wouldn't it?
Nevermind. I've been at work since 5:30am and I just got off :'(
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Fuck you libs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm joining the political forum at www.JOELOCALPT.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
;D
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Nevermind. I've been at work since 5:30am and I just got off :'(
No worries. Obama might give a major foreign policy speech from an Islamic capital in his first 100 days in office. That won't help ya sleep any better lol...
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Fuck you libs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm joining the political forum at www.JOELOCALPT.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Yes, please join my forums.............
I'm f**king tired of talking to myself :(
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Back to the bailout.
EVERYONE needs to watch this to understand all of the facts and the true situation regarding the auto industry.
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Back to the bailout.
EVERYONE needs to watch this to understand all of the facts and the true situation regarding the auto industry.
Her two main arguments are that no one is buying cars right now and that people can't get credit.
For her first point, she cites car sales being down dramatically compared to last year. That's true. However, last year, GM, didn't show a profit, either, even though they sold over 9 million cars for a grand total of 180 billion dollars. In fact, they didn't show a profit in 2006 or 2005, either. So, obviously the problem is that their expenses are too high.
As for her credit argument, the American consumer is already shopped out, debt burdeoned and has a negative savings rate. The last thing most Americans need to do is buy new cars with no money down.
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Back to the bailout.
EVERYONE needs to watch this to understand all of the facts and the true situation regarding the auto industry.
adonis do you knwo why people have shitty credit
is because they dont pay there FVCKING RENT ( and they dont pay there rent cause they dont want to work)
knowing property managers and being one myself, (i hate to sound racist) but you got all these black people around screwing around all day dont pay there rent . go to someone like me who owns low end property pay the deposit and one months rent. well month 2 comes round n they dont have that , well im not gonna kick them out cause they have a-z excuses, ill even let them slide 2 months,(i dont want to kick them out but they aint gonna live for free either) well whaddya know after the padlocks done i go inside the place is trashed completley all kinds of crap inside walls smashed up grease on walls and celeings, fridge full of mold with sticky coolaid on everything and i have to clean it all up
the problem is blacks and mexicans
sorry everyone i am a messenger of love and peace but there is something seriously wrong with these two races. they care about no one but themselves
in the end i get a civil judgment that says i should get paid X amount, but ill never EVER get that fuckin money, THERE credit goes BAD, Im stuck picking up there slack and working hard
thats your real problem buddy. youve talked about buying some property and renting it out, well you should you would get a whole knew perspective
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Her two main arguments are that no one is buying cars right now and that people can't get credit.
For her first point, she cites car sales being down dramatically compared to last year. That's true. However, last year, GM, didn't show a profit, either, even though they sold over 9 million cars for a grand total of 180 billion dollars. In fact, they didn't show a profit in 2006 or 2005, either. So, obviously the problem is that their expenses are too high.
As for her credit argument, the American consumer is already shopped out, debt burdeoned and has a negative savings rate. The last thing most Americans need to do is buy new cars with no money down.
i agree these lazy fvcks in this country have striked out if there credits bad they dont give a damn. they dont deserve no damn cars. they need to get off there black and white mexican asses and learn to dig some holes in there back yard and start planting beans
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And thats why we are the superpower of the world, thats why other countries come to us to for finacial aid, thats why people from other countries come to us for health care. You put universal health care in place, you will see doctor defaulting on student loans, you see less people wanting to become doctors. Like teachers, they better just get into medicine to help people and not for the money. Take a look at Kaiser health care, most of their doctors suck, you have to wait anywhere from 4-8 weeks to get an appointment and the misdiagnosis of many ailments are off the hook. Not only that, the higher taxes that Obama wants to impose doesn't even cover the cost of 'universal health care".
Its actually the US who is having to go to other countries for financial aid, primarily China and Japan in previous years. That is why we are in about $10.7 trillion of national debt.
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Its actually the US who is having to go to other countries for financial aid, primarily China and Japan in previous years. That is why we are in about $10.7 trillion of national debt.
the whole "debt" thing is an illusion lets say tommorrow half of everyones check goes to the national debt (well then you got problem solved in one fucking day)
its all a bunch of bullshit
the real problem is peoples attitudes
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The real problem is credit. The buy now and pay later society which creates exorbitant inflation and gives a false speculative value.
Carlin nails it.
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adonis do you knwo why people have shitty credit
is because they dont pay there FVCKING RENT ( and they dont pay there rent cause they dont want to work)
knowing property managers and being one myself, (i hate to sound racist) but you got all these black people around screwing around all day dont pay there rent . go to someone like me who owns low end property pay the deposit and one months rent. well month 2 comes round n they dont have that , well im not gonna kick them out cause they have a-z excuses, ill even let them slide 2 months,(i dont want to kick them out but they aint gonna live for free either) well whaddya know after the padlocks done i go inside the place is trashed completley all kinds of crap inside walls smashed up grease on walls and celeings, fridge full of mold with sticky coolaid on everything and i have to clean it all up
the problem is blacks and mexicans
sorry everyone i am a messenger of love and peace but there is something seriously wrong with these two races. they care about no one but themselves
in the end i get a civil judgment that says i should get paid X amount, but ill never EVER get that fuckin money, THERE credit goes BAD, Im stuck picking up there slack and working hard
thats your real problem buddy. youve talked about buying some property and renting it out, well you should you would get a whole knew perspective
It is solely Your fault for not properly screening tenants. Poverty and bad judgement on your part is the cause of your problem, not race.
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GM should be allowed to fail.
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GM should be allowed to fail.
::)
I don`t think you realize the detriment that would further cause or the implications on American manufacturing that would cause.
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::)
I don`t think you realize the detriment that would further cause or the implications on American manufacturing that would cause.
You don't think it would be better long term to let GM fail? You don't think we're just delaying the inevitable by bailing them out?
We haven't even changed the policy that created this mess yet.
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You don't think it would be better long term to let GM fail? You don't think we're just delaying the inevitable by bailing them out?
We haven't even changed the policy that created this mess yet.
And put 3 million workers on the street, stop paying pensions to nearly a million plus who worked for years paying into their retiree benefits and healthcare, putting their lives at risk with no medical care, stopping one of the last vestiges of American manufacturing? Its not too easy to start a car company from scratch. The Big 3 have the equipment and proven business models.
Here is a solution in the right direction:
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You don't think it would be better long term to let GM fail? You don't think we're just delaying the inevitable by bailing them out?
We haven't even changed the policy that created this mess yet.
GM would do wonderfully well making light rail and rapid transit systems such as the bullet train.
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GM would do wonderfully well making light rail and rapid transit systems such as the bullet train.
This is one of those rare occasions when I agree with Michael Moore. Bullet trains would be awesome. Amtrak is a joke.
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This is one of those rare occasions when I agree with Michael Moore. Bullet trains would be awesome. Amtrak is a joke.
China has it down already.
Check out their bullet train go 300 mph and how smooth it is. Their transit system is light years ahead of us. Amazing stuff.
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And put 3 million workers on the street, stop paying pensions to nearly a million plus who worked for years paying into their retiree benefits and healthcare, putting their lives at risk with no medical care, stopping one of the last vestiges of American manufacturing? Its not too easy to start a car company from scratch. The Big 3 have the equipment and proven business models.
Here is a solution in the right direction:
proven business models that failed, only the strong survive, this is how it should be
ONLY THE BEST AUTO COMPANY SHOULD SURVIVE
the company that is left will surely grow bigger because of the demand for cars that will remain.
and those people would be employed there.
If a supermarket chain was to go out of business should they get bailed out too?
if Walmart put K mart out of business would be good to bailout K mart? NO
it's a business world, they should let it be
that's 700 billion of the tax payer's money that will be given to those companies FOR FREE, WITH NO POSSIBLE RETURN
just because they made bad business decisions.
This is stupid!
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We are seeing Maglev`s do 400 MPH now all with nothing but electromagnetics and no fuel.
Amazing stuff.
(http://www.maglev.net/pictures/jr-maglev.jpg)
Too bad the United States is being left behind. I do hope Obama and the Big 3 begin to consider manufacturing this type of inter-continental transportation. You could travel coast to coast and all along the east coast at such a high rate of speed saving so much time. Someone could technically have a job a few states away and ride one of these things to work thus enhancing the economy as it would no longer be necessary to have to be forced to live near your job. Of course that is just one small benefit. Too many to list. ;)
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proven business models that failed, only the strong survive, this is how it should be
ONLY THE BEST AUTO COMPANY SHOULD SURVIVE
the company that is left will surely grow bigger because of the demand for cars that will remain.
and those people would be employed there.
If a supermarket chain was to go out of business should they get bailed out too?
if Walmart put K mart out of business would be good to bailout K mart? NO
it's a business world, they should let it be
that's 700 billion of the tax payer's money that will be given to those companies FOR FREE, WITH NO POSSIBLE RETURN
just because they made bad business decisions.
This is stupid!
uhhhh, one of the requirements is that the money is to be returned with profit to the public as they now have 700 billion in ownership in the banking industry. We do not have a laissez-faire system and the last time we tried that approach, the country nearly starved itself to death.
Exit Question: Why are you not complaining about the 12 billion dollars a month spent in Iraq and the projected Trillions it is to cost?
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about Iraq and the war, who said I wasn't complaining?
I DID vote for Obama. ;)
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about Iraq and the war, who said I wasn't complaining?
I DID vote for Obama. ;)
The other problem is, there won`t be a company left to take its place. Its not easy to start a car company from scratch.
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Furthermore, the defense spending should be cut in old and unnecessary weapons and weapon storage. Reduce our Nuclear Weapons and the bailout looks like less than a fraction of a drop in the bucket. That is another solution.
Old Bombs that will never be used or An American Auto Industry. I don`t think the choice can be any more clear or easier.
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Furthermore, the defense spending should be cut in old and unnecessary weapons and weapon storage. Reduce our Nuclear Weapons and the bailout looks like less than a fraction of a drop in the bucket. That is another solution.
Old Bombs that will never be used or An American Auto Industry. I don`t think the choice can be any more clear or easier.
Great ideas, Adonis. Run for office?
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It sounds to me the government wants to totally take over with government "oversights" and a "regulatory commitee". Anyone remember what the dems did with Fannie and Freddy that help caused the mess we're i now?
The Federal Reserve (nothing Fed or Res about it - private sick-mided, greedy fuck bankers) printing money out of thin air to give to the Govt in exchange for their shitty, useless bonds....lol.....a joke for the ages is what it is
and all for the sake of bailing out the banks that got us in this mess.....
now the auto industry want help
FUCK THEM!
do what Jim Rodgers, Peter Schieff, et all recommend ---> let them fail.....let the market dictate who the healthy and profitable companies are.....if my business failed, would the Govt bail me out?.....fucking fuckers
its BS!
Aaron Russo.....Alex Jones.....911 truth.....Ron Paul.....
wake up America you bunch of docile retards....
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It is solely Your fault for not properly screening tenants. Poverty and bad judgement on your part is the cause of your problem, not race.
how can you predict when a tennant wont pay you dumbass lol
properly screening doesnt mean shit because most wont have a good record anyways remember there credit is fucked anyways, you could look into where the rented from last and they could have a a good reference doesnt mean shit. people all the time will pay for a bit then not pay
and if i didnt want to rent to so-and so cause of there history then who the hell is gonna pay rent. the goal is to get the property rented adonis not let it sit and cost money.
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China has it down already.
Check out their bullet train go 300 mph and how smooth it is. Their transit system is light years ahead of us. Amazing stuff.
adonis doesnt know much but does know how to post cool clips from time to time
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FOX news/shep smith just offered a decent solution.
Allow them to enter chapter 11, with congress personally guaranteeing financing and warranties.
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Great ideas, Adonis. Run for office?
I would vote for Adam
hopefully he would make it illegal to be obese and put everybody on the Adonis Principles
this country needs a make over >:(
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F**k em, let them file chapter 11. I'm not going to be forced to pay for other people's screw ups. Thats what chapter 11 is designed for. If they can't reorganize with that, they can't reorganize with anything.
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I farted between sets of inclines at Gold's this morning.
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i say legalize cocaine and weed
and let the world just get high in peace and fvck fine assed hoes
you guys act like a bunch of fags wanting this kinda gm product or that
hell whereever people are living at right now let them have the title to that property.
only the rich should be able to travel long distances. all other people can peddle fvcking bikes
we travel drive way too much
have communities/join a community with all your friends buddies and hoes living close by
grow your weed plants and cocaine plants in your backyard. develop more farmland
all u need is food weed and hoes
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people would be alot happier w/o jobs like *true adonis*
living with all they need right at home . legalize tehh herbs
fvck da cars / make a bike out of it build tehh leg muscles
traveling is a huge waste of rescources . why travel if you have all the people you love and want to know in a vicinity of 15 miles that you could easily bike around too
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i say legalize cocaine and weed
Big fuggin shocker there.
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Big fuggin shocker there.
hell yeah mainly the weed though, legalizing cociane would kill alot off alot of people and that would be a good thing, ill stick to mainly weed
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people would be alot happier w/o jobs like *true adonis*
living with all they need right at home . legalize tehh herbs
fvck da cars / make a bike out of it build tehh leg muscles
traveling is a huge waste of rescources . why travel if you have all the people you love and want to know in a vicinity of 15 miles that you could easily bike around too
what does Adonis do for a living? ???
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what does Adonis do for a living? ???
i have no problem with adonis jaking off all day long and not working
i wish it was that way for everyone
but adonis is not smart enough to realize that keeping these big companies up is making people have to work even HARDER
when life would be so much better if you werent required to do all this transportation bullshit but had everything you needed in small communitys
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i have no problem with adonis jaking off all day long and not working
i wish it was that way for everyone
but adonis is not smart enough to realize that keeping these big companies up is making people have to work even HARDER
when life would be so much better if you werent required to do all this transportation bullshit but had everything you needed in small communitys
i highly doubt all these gm workers love going to there jobs working fulltime and overtime to spend a little time at home fuckin the wife jerkin off gettin high or playin with there kids
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jerkin off gettin high or playin with there kids
Hopefully, not at the same time.
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Hopefully, not at the same time.
people would be 50000% happier if they didnt have to slave work for these big corporations
why do people feel we need to work endlessly to pay for a place to live have water electricty and food?
its fools that keep pushing the feeling to have these needless jobs
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therese too much regulation and laws hell ive wasted a couple hundred bucks in paint painting the inside and outside of a house because section 8 cant have any chipped paint on a house even exterior . all this wasted money and time and pain
everything is pointing to 2012, the government will put a cross in the sky where the cross constelation is around south east and make us think its real or it may really be real...anyways im gettin off topic point is all this crazyness regulation and rules/WASTE is going to collapse anyways people are going to get tired off all this work-LIFE
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people would be 50000% happier if they didnt have to slave work for these big corporations
why do people feel we need to work endlessly to pay for a place to live have water electricty and food?
its fools that keep pushing the feeling to have these needless jobs
$27.00 an hour is slave work? these people have zero education and they make more than a lot of people with graduate degrees. ::)
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how can you predict when a tennant wont pay you dumbass lol
properly screening doesnt mean shit because most wont have a good record anyways remember there credit is fucked anyways, you could look into where the rented from last and they could have a a good reference doesnt mean shit. people all the time will pay for a bit then not pay
and if i didnt want to rent to so-and so cause of there history then who the hell is gonna pay rent. the goal is to get the property rented adonis not let it sit and cost money.
Why don`t you run a credit check. criminal backround check, employment check, get 10 references of respectable people that know the renter etc...These are just a few of the MANY things you can do. Why are you not doing them ??? I guess trusting a man who claims he can heal cancer by drinking his own piss might be part of the problem perhaps? Thanks for calling me a dumbass. True Class.
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Why don`t you run a credit check. criminal backround check, employment check, get 10 references of respectable people that know the renter etc...These are just a few of the MANY things you can do. Why are you not doing them ??? I guess trusting a man who claims he can heal cancer by drinking his own piss might be part of the problem perhaps? Thanks for calling me a dumbass. True Class.
You do all that, and you will never fill the trailer park up.
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hey JF if a tenant won't pay you get an eviction order on them and they have 30 days to vacate the place.
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Why don`t you run a credit check. criminal backround check, employment check, get 10 references of respectable people that know the renter etc...These are just a few of the MANY things you can do. Why are you not doing them ??? I guess trusting a man who claims he can heal cancer by drinking his own piss might be part of the problem perhaps? Thanks for calling me a dumbass. True Class.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
although Soundness is a smart educated person with a psychology degree and persuing his PHD
I gotta admit, that's pretty dumb. I wouldn't drink 6-8 glasses of piss even if it made me live forever :-X
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Why don`t you run a credit check. criminal backround check, employment check, get 10 references of respectable people that know the renter etc...These are just a few of the MANY things you can do. Why are you not doing them ??? I guess trusting a man who claims he can heal cancer by drinking his own piss might be part of the problem perhaps? Thanks for calling me a dumbass. True Class.
if i ran all these checks that would cost me couple hundred bucks in time and money just for one tenant the criminal background check alone is around 100 bucks
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hey JF if a tenant won't pay you get an eviction order on them and they have 30 days to vacate the place.
right and the place will be tore the fuck up like an interacial gangbang and your point is?
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hahah and "10 references of respectable people" they will list
Raheim
Jamal
Rakimbe
they will say oh yeah Jaquita is cool as mofo playah!
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right and the place will be tore the fuck up like an interacial gangbang and your point is?
most of the time it won't, just get 'em the fucck out of there and then take the cops there with you on the last day and if there's damage tell the cops you want them charged with property damage.
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most of the time it won't, just get 'em the fucck out of there and then take the cops there with you on the last day and if there's damage tell the cops you want them charged with property damage.
courtfees and time in court do you understand the pain it is to go to back and from court many many times, do you realize these takes away from your workday
you can charge a tenant for this and that to hell and back bro wont do nothing but cause u to lose money
you can get all the civil judgements in the world but you wont get a DIME
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if i ran all these checks that would cost me couple hundred bucks in time and money just for one tenant the criminal background check alone is around 100 bucks
Looks like you shouldn`t be in the rental business perhaps if you lack the startup costs to adequately insure your success rate.
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hahah and "10 references of respectable people" they will list
Raheim
Jamal
Rakimbe
they will say oh yeah Jaquita is cool as mofo playah!
haha, everybody knows black people don't "live" somewhere....they "stay" somewhere...
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hahah and "10 references of respectable people" they will list
Raheim
Jamal
Rakimbe
they will say oh yeah Jaquita is cool as mofo playah!
Whose fault is it if YOU are a poor judge of character and therefore don`t have the wherewithal to realize when someone is honest versus when they are not?
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Why don`t you run a credit check. criminal backround check, employment check, get 10 references of respectable people that know the renter etc...These are just a few of the MANY things you can do. Why are you not doing them ??? I guess trusting a man who claims he can heal cancer by drinking his own piss might be part of the problem perhaps? Thanks for calling me a dumbass. True Class.
sorry didnt mean to call you a dumbass, how bout smart ass?
i hate when people act like they know about the rental buisness when i deal with so much shit . i happend to fall into the rental buisness cause my family has been in it. our money is in it. we are in debt but we get buy
ill say it again its the caliber of people mainly race related wich makes it way harder and 9times out of 10 the apartment is fairly destroyed
and if a person has section-8 assistance my house work has to be 'spot' on they make you fix every little negligable thing that is more time and money WASTED
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courtfees and time in court do you understand the pain it is to go to back and from court many many times, do you realize these takes away from your workday
you can charge a tenant for this and that to hell and back bro wont do nothing but cause u to lose money
you can get all the civil judgements in the world but you wont get a DIME
i'm not talking about CIVIL judgement i'm talking about filing LEGAL charges against them for destruction of property, if someone is giving you trouble over that you threaten them with it.
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sorry didnt mean to call you a dumbass, how bout smart ass?
i hate when people act like they know about the rental buisness when i deal with so much shit . i happend to fall into the rental buisness cause my family has been in it. our money is in it. we are in debt but we get buy
ill say it again its the caliber of people mainly race related wich makes it way harder and 9times out of 10 the apartment is fairly destroyed
and if a person has section-8 assistance my house work has to be 'spot' on they make you fix every little negligable thing that is more time and money WASTED
You just answered your own question, albeit with the wrong answer. You can be racist all you want, but trying to find the solution to your problem is a monetary issue not a racial one.
Again, its not a question of race, it is a question of poverty.
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Whose fault is it if YOU are a poor judge of character and therefore don`t have the wherewithal to realize when someone is honest versus when they are not?
if the rental buisness was about judgeing character id already know you and everyone else were a peice of shit
but its not
its the times we are living in blacks and mexicans have NO respect for rental property..I know some of the main rental people in the area and they will tell you the same exact thing and they own 100's
people can be decent people but they end up being slobs when they dont feel like paying or working. you cant predict that
but you can predict that when someone stops paying after a couple months that they wont pay, wont return phonecalls and will leave the place roach infested and tore up from the floor up
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You just answered your own question, albeit with the wrong answer. You can be racist all you want, but trying to find the solution to your problem is a monetary issue not a racial one.
Again, its not a question of race, it is a question of poverty.
nah if a person CANT pay thats fine there evicted , even let them stay a couple months rent free. the problem is the destruction of the place
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if the rental buisness was about judgeing character id already know you and everyone else were a peice of shit
but its not
its the times we are living in blacks and mexicans have NO respect for rental property..I know some of the main rental people in the area and they will tell you the same exact thing and they own 100's
people can be decent people but they end up being slobs when they dont feel like paying or working. you cant predict that
but you can predict that when someone stops paying after a couple months that they wont pay, wont return phonecalls and will leave the place roach infested and tore up from the floor up
And you are not a slob based off the dingy domicile you dwell in? ??? We all have seen the pictures.
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nah if a person CANT pay thats fine there evicted , even let them stay a couple months rent free. the problem is the destruction of the place
Who destroyed your place that you live in?
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And you are not a slob based off the dingy domicile you dwell in? ??? We all have seen the pictures.
Being a slob and destroying something are totally different. Plus Falcon probably owns the place he lives in.
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Being a slob and destroying something are totally different. Plus Falcon probably owns the place he lives in.
Oh ok.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_5166.jpg)
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And you are not a slob based off the dingy domicile you dwell in? ??? We all have seen the pictures.
the last thing im worried about is grapejuice bottles and clothes on my floor
i got 10 foot ceilings in some rooms
i only have about as much energy to clean up after someone else on a daily basis not myself
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3215.jpg)
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the last thing im worried about is grapejuice bottles and clothes on my floor
i got 10 foot ceilings in some rooms
i only have about as much energy to clean up after someone else on a daily basis not myself
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3215.jpg)
thought you didn't believe in supplements JF.
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johnny's got a huge cawk.
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you guys are steering way off the point
people cant afford there habits because they are overworked and underpaid
people shouldnt have to work at all
all this funding for big corporations is a waste, id be happy as SHITEE not working and gettin high and playing music all day
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the last thing im worried about is grapejuice bottles and clothes on my floor
i got 10 foot ceilings in some rooms
i only have about as much energy to clean up after someone else on a daily basis not myself
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3215.jpg)
A lawnmower in the living room though? I can`t imagine that makes a great conversation piece. Look, its hard to take you seriously when you are living in the same manner (or manor ;)?) as those you are maligning.
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thought you didn't believe in supplements JF.
he's got quite a collection for someone who only eats butter and drinks grape soda, don't you think "QuakerOats" ???
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A lawnmower in the living room though? I can`t imagine that makes a great conversation piece. Look, its hard to take you seriously when you are living in the same manner as those you are maligning.
ha
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he's got quite a collection for someone who only eats butter and drinks grape soda, don't you think "QuakerOats" ???
looks to be 6-7 bottles there from what i can see.
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Oh ok.
Yeah, and your point? That place looks cluttered and dirty,but not destroyed.
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looks to be 6-7 bottles there from what i can see.
I am willing to bet that picture is REALLY old and those are the Mr. Getbig supplements he won from 2006 which in turn may date the picture, hence dating his physique. Don`t let JF fool you, he likes to post pics from totally different eras whilst under the guise of being current.
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thought you didn't believe in supplements JF.
if you go through my posts there have been times where i was taking high protien and low protien and times of disbeleif and beleif , times of olive oil and times of grapejuice and eggs :)
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I am willing to bet that picture is REALLY old and those are the Mr. Getbig supplements he won from 2006. Don`t let JF fool you, he likes to post pics from totally different eras.
who am i fooling, what am i trying to fool you of exactly?
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who am i fooling, what am i trying to fool you of exactly?
Yourself for starters. Olive oil and grape juice and now your newest revelation of drinking your own piss. hmm ???
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I am willing to bet that picture is REALLY old and those are the Mr. Getbig supplements he won from 2006 which in turn may date the picture, hence dating his physique. Don`t let JF fool you, he likes to post pics from totally different eras whilst under the guise of being current.
yes i've noticed that.
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Yourself for starters. Olive oil and grape juice and now your newest revelation of drinking your own piss. hmm ???
? what am i being untruthful of?
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? what am i being untruthful of?
Exactly my point. You have fooled and deluded yourself into a deceptive ditch. Drink all the olive oil and grape juice you want, afterall, you are yielding a result that ONLY YOU can see.
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whats wrong with me posting pics of my living dwelling in different eras?
whats wrong with beleiving in supplements at times and disbeleiving?
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? what am i being untruthful of?
Johnny please tell us you have NOT started drinking your own piss :'(
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Exactly my point. You have fooled and deluded yourself into a deceptive ditch. Drink all the olive oil and grape juice you want, afterall, you are yielding a result that ONLY YOU can see.
whats your point adonis are you trying say i couldnt look ripped and big this very second with a picture, is there something you need to prove or feel like i need to prove? you are certainly on my case
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Johnny please tell us you have NOT started drinking your own piss :'(
i dont see whats so bad about going to the urinals at the mall and filling up on some good variety of urine
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whats your point adonis are you trying say i couldnt look ripped and big this very second with a picture, is there something you need to prove or feel like i need to prove? you are certainly on my case
I`m saying you have ruined yourself and you do not have the wherewithal to even recognize it.
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i dont see whats so bad about going to the urinals at the mall and filling up on some good variety of urine
that's what's wrong with you, you don't see what is wrong with it :o
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looks to be 6-7 bottles there from what i can see.
wasnt i raving about a protien bar diet about a year ago at this time?
why is this news two you?
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I`m saying you have ruined yourself and you do not have the wherewithal to even recognize it.
Epic truth!
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I`m saying you have ruined yourself and you do not have the wherewithal to even recognize it.
are you saying since im ruined that right now you would look better than me in any pose if we were to take a photo right now with a news paper veryfieing the date you poor little man? do you feel inferior to the falcon that you must resort to your hateful tactics
if you read above i did apoligize for calling you a dumbass you touchy fellow
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everyone has to attack the great falconis!
oh what a joy
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are you saying since im ruined that right now you would look better than me in any pose if we were to take a photo right now with a news paper veryfieing the date you poor little man? do you feel inferior to the falcon that you must resort to your hateful tactics
if you read above i did apoligize for calling you a dumbass you touchy fellow
I thought you two were friends ???
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I don`t care what you call me, its more your racist bigotry that annoys me.
And also your lack of intelligence.
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I don`t care what you call me, its more your racist bigotry that annoys me.
im plenty friends with blacks and mexicans, im just honest about it
im racist to all races more so to blacks and mexicans
you wanted an honest answer about tenants well i gave you one
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I don`t care what you call me, its more your racist bigotry that annoys me.
Oh brother...
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I thought you two were friends ???
I still consider him a friend, but he deserves a little kick in the pants. Its time he unclouded his brain.
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im plenty friends with blacks and mexicans, im just honest about it
im racist to all races more so to blacks and mexicans
you wanted an honest answer about tenants well i gave you one
Why not hate all races equally? That is if you have to hate at all. I thought you were Johnny Falcon, lover all all humanity. ::)
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didnt mean to annoy you adonis but i cant help but telling you LIKE IT IS. im sure whites are messy too , hell my place is messy as fuck right now ;D but if i were renting it and about to move i would clean it up in the condition i got it in. thats what you are supposed to do when you rent anything
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I still consider him a friend, but he deserves a little kick in the pants. Its time he unclouded his brain.
I agree with you Adam.
Johnny snap out of it :o
time to go into the right direction and to the ways that work instead of inventing new ridiculous ways
don't reinvent the wheel ! going against your body biochemistry is not a thing you will win.
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Why not hate all races equally? That is if you have to hate at all. I thought you were Johnny Falcon, lover all all humanity. ::)
TA, have you every truly lived amongst the colored folks of our great nation? Attending classes and sports teams don't count in this context.
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Why not hate all races equally? That is if you have to hate at all. I thought you were Johnny Falcon, lover all all humanity. ::)
doesnt mean i cant love and hate someone at the same time...just like many wonderful getbig posters here i could easily hate and love and the same time. i normally dont act like you and let my hate outshine everything like a fool. i like to keep it laid back and chill like a true Hero-win
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/herowin.jpg)
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didnt mean to annoy you adonis but i cant help but telling you LIKE IT IS. im sure whites are messy too , hell my place is messy as fuck right now ;D but if i were renting it and about to move i would clean it up in the condition i got it in. thats what you are supposed to do when you rent anything
well renting out your place to somebody from the ghetto is the same as renting it out to a redneck
same race, different CLASS of people, find the right CLASS ;)
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didnt mean to annoy you adonis but i cant help but telling you LIKE IT IS. im sure whites are messy too , hell my place is messy as fuck right now ;D but if i were renting it and about to move i would clean it up in the condition i got it in. thats what you are supposed to do when you rent anything
Oh I don`t doubt that you would, but you would have to concede that if you were renting from some landlords, and they did a drop by visit, they may have a little angst in continuing your lease given that the current status is not in the condition as you initially received (as per stated).
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TA, have you every truly lived amongst the colored folks of our great nation? Attending classes and sports teams don't count in this context.
My roomates in college were Philipino and African American. I lived with them for a few years.
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Oh I don`t doubt that you would, but you would have to concede that if you were renting from some landlords, and they did a drop by visit, they may have a little angst in continuing your lease given that the current status is not in the condition as you initially received (as per stated).
na i dont have holes in the wall or damages just dirty clothes and a bit of clutter from things ive aquired and paint/ tools i have. your argument doesnt make sense my house is filled with carpenty tools and materials
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My roomates in college were Philipino and African American. I lived with them for a few years.
Close, but college students are a little different. I lived on West End Blvd near Baptist Hospital, I'm sure you know the area and wow, what a wake-up call for me. I had friends in hs, military, etc... but that was a huge eyeopener for me, personally.
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na i dont have holes in the wall or damages just dirty clothes and a bit of clutter from things ive aquired and paint/ tools i have. your argument doesnt make sense my house is filled with carpenty tools and materials
You rent out houses to other people, but you still live in a rental? THAT doesn't make sense ???
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this big3 companies is the topic, its impossible to attack the falconis he is taller and better than everyone
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TA, have you every truly lived amongst the colored folks of our great nation? Attending classes and sports teams don't count in this context.
My grandfather owned Universal Furniture Corporation, the worlds`s largest Television and record cabinet manufacturing company. He was one of the first people in North Carolina to give African Americans equal wages and equal jobs as whites. My music teacher in Middle School was the daughter of his maid and kitchen staff and he bought her entire family houses and did everything he could in poor communities. This was in the 50s and 60s. Since my grandfather was Jewish, he also experienced hatred and what it is like to be treated as a second class citizen even though he was wealthy.
I went to school with a ton of people my grandfather helped. It was amazing to say the least to see the impact and the fact they never have forgotten even to this day.
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My grandfather owned Universal Furniture Corporation, the worlds`s largest Television and record cabinet manufacturing company. He was one of the first people in North Carolina to give African Americans equal wages and equal jobs as whites. My music teacher in Middle School was the daughter of his maid and kitchen staff and he bought her entire family houses and did everything he could in poor communities. This was in the 50s and 60s. Since my grandfather was Jewish, he also experienced hatred and what it is like to be treated as a second class citizen even though he was wealthy.
I went to school with a ton of people my grandfather helped. It was amazing to say the least to see the impact and the fact they never have forgotten even to this day.
my grandfather was a land developer but if he saw how blacks respected property in this day in age hed be rollin over in his grave
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My grandfather owned Universal Furniture Corporation, the worlds`s largest Television and record cabinet manufacturing company. He was one of the first people in North Carolina to give African Americans equal wages and equal jobs as whites. My music teacher in Middle School was the daughter of his maid and kitchen staff and he bought her entire family houses and did everything he could in poor communities. This was in the 50s and 60s. Since my grandfather was Jewish, he also experienced hatred and what it is like to be treated as a second class citizen even though he was wealthy.
I went to school with a ton of people my grandfather helped. It was amazing to say the least to see the impact and the fact they never have forgotten even to this day.
See my post above. Very cool that your grandfather did that, but it's EXTREMELY unusual in my experience that they even remember it, much less express appreciation. Possibly you have a different take as you are seen as someone who has (thru your family tree) directly done something for them.
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my grandfather was a land developer but if he saw how blacks respected property in this day in age hed be rollin over in his grave
You really think someone abuses something because of the color of their skin?
So by that rationale Barack Obama, is going to tear up the White House?
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my grandfather was a land developer but if he saw how blacks respected property in this day in age hed be rollin over in his grave
my grandfather owned 50 story buildings that he rented out, if they damaged the property, he simply made them pay for the damages :)
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You really think someone abuses something because of the color of their skin?
So by that rationale Barack Obama, is going to tear up the White House?
he has already started on that quest.....
by tearing out GWB's chess room and putting in a nice gym >:( ;D
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You really think someone abuses something because of the color of their skin?
So by that rationale Barack Obama, is going to tear up the White House?
Obama hates coloreds.
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You really think someone abuses something because of the color of their skin?
So by that rationale Barack Obama, is going to tear up the White House?
yes he plans to paint it black ;D
what im saying is that times have changed back in the old days people of all colors simply respected things more because they were poorer
blacks and mexicans in downtown durham are MUCH more likely than whites to tear up a place
why?
because i have hard evidence from all the work ive ever done in Durham northcarolina. i know FIRST HAND adonis. you are just a a Couch spectator on the matter. sorry man u just dont know because you dont live it , makes sense that you try to attack my character and physique and food habits when caught in the wrong like a baby trapped inside a plastic walmart bag
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yes he plans to paint it black ;D
what im saying is that times have changed back in the old days people of all colors simply respected things more because they were poorer
blacks and mexicans in downtown durham are MUCH more likely than whites to tear up a place
why?
because i have hard evidence from all the work ive ever done in Durham northcarolina. i know FIRST HAND adonis. you are just a a Couch spectator on the matter. sorry man u just dont know because you dont live it , makes sense that you try to attack my character and physique and food habits when caught in the wrong like a baby trapped inside a plastic walmart bag
QFT, fly on Falcon !!
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yes he plans to paint it black ;D
what im saying is that times have changed back in the old days people of all colors simply respected things more because they were poorer
blacks and mexicans in downtown durham are MUCH more likely than whites to tear up a place
why?
because i have hard evidence from all the work ive ever done in Durham northcarolina. i know FIRST HAND adonis. you are just a a Couch spectator on the matter. sorry man u just dont know because you dont live it , makes sense that you try to attack my character and physique and food habits when caught in the wrong like a baby trapped inside a plastic walmart bag
You are mischaracterizing the problem. It is a poverty issue perhaps even an educational issue, not a racial issue. Race is not the factor at play. I was using yourself as an example as it clearly appears that you live in the same (manor ?) manner as the ones you malign. You asked me a question about your physique and I answered. You brought your withering body into this. Not I.
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yes he plans to paint it black ;D
what im saying is that times have changed back in the old days people of all colors simply respected things more because they were poorer
blacks and mexicans in downtown durham are MUCH more likely than whites to tear up a place
why?
because i have hard evidence from all the work ive ever done in Durham northcarolina. i know FIRST HAND adonis. you are just a a Couch spectator on the matter. sorry man u just dont know because you dont live it , makes sense that you try to attack my character and physique and food habits when caught in the wrong like a baby trapped inside a plastic walmart bag
LMAO!
The Black House?
baby trapped inside a plastic walmart bag? tell me you didn't do it >:(
all those fine ass hoes, it was about time one of them got pregnant, you used the falconic abortion techniques?
falconic punches? you son of a ........... >:(
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LMAO!
The Black House?
baby trapped inside a plastic walmart bag? tell me you didn't do it >:(
all those fine ass hoes, it was about time one of them got pregnant, you used the falconic abortion techniques?
falconic punches? you son of a ........... >:(
ROFLMAO.
Crack Baby perhaps? Someone with the initials JF did admit a penchant for smoking the white rock.
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ROFLMAO.
Crack Baby perhaps? Someone with the initials JF did admit a penchant for smoking the white rock.
AHAHHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA AHAHAHAHAH
I wonder what Johnny would do if he found out his kid was black? ;D
ROFL
cry like MR. T ;D
(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/mrtwrong6.jpg)
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a half black falcon perhaps?
LOL I wonder if he would let him rent a house :D
(http://www.classic-castle.com/howto/articles/Triangular/BlackFalconTorsoShield.jpg)
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we should stop picking on the Falcon
Johnny what you been up to these days? :D
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You are mischaracterizing the problem. It is a poverty issue perhaps even an educational issue, not a racial issue. Race is not the factor at play. I was using yourself as an example as it clearly appears that you live in the same (manor ?) manner as the ones you malign. You asked me a question about your physique and I answered. You brought your withering body into this. Not I.
so when blacks dirty up an apartment its because of poverty? and not the type of people that they are?
why do you beleive this to be true adonis?
adonis are you stupid for beleiving money makes people dirty house keepers?
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Yup. and I've invested heavily in Ford stock. So far, I'm up over 135%.
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so when blacks dirty up an apartment its because of poverty? and not the type of people that they are?
why do you beleive this to be true adonis?
adonis are you stupid for beleiving money makes people dirty house keepers?
What happens when whites dirty up apartments and why? Why did you dirty up your dwelling and would the same reason as to why you did as such apply to all races?
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What happens when whites dirty up apartments and why? Why did you dirty up your dwelling and would the same reason as to why you did as such apply to all races?
the only reason why you keep replying in this thread is because your too angry to realize that a white could dirty a place up just as much as black but refuse to realize that i said 90 percent of the tenants i deal with are black and mexican.
the reason my dwelling at times is dirty is because i dont have the time to pick it up, therese a big difference between living somewhere and being messy and Leaving a place messy dont you think so adonis?
im only pissing on your mind by sounding like im some evil racist because you are a sucker for the bait just like many here are while all the others have left it alone you keep going on like a crazed fool on hero-win . ill say it again i deal with mainly black people. yet you call me racist because i despise there blackness hahah
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the bottom line problem adonis is you missed the bottom line
there would be no poverty if people werent required to work and fend forthemselves
poverty has nothing to do with leaving a rental spot dirty. stop making it a race issue. i can call them dirty black scums if all i deal with is blacks.
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the bottom line problem adonis is you missed the bottom line
there would be no poverty if people werent required to work and fend forthemselves
poverty has nothing to do with leaving a rental spot dirty. stop making it a race issue. i can call them dirty black scums if all i deal with is blacks.
And the ones is Durham are certainly that...
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And the ones is Durham are certainly that...
nicknames for durham and no joke
"Durmites"
"Dirty Durham"
"Dirty-D"
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People from India and China often come from poverty but they don't go around collecting welfare, committing crimes and usually don't have general social problems like black and hispanic people do.
Poverty is an excuse to cover up the deep rooted problems within the black community. They're given affirmative action, and quotas and still they're mediocre to the last degree.
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nicknames for durham and no joke
"Durmites"
"Dirty Durham"
"Dirty-D"
Outside of the hospital and university, it's a shithole.
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the only reason why you keep replying in this thread is because your too angry to realize that a white could dirty a place up just as much as black but refuse to realize that i said 90 percent of the tenants i deal with are black and mexican.
the reason my dwelling at times is dirty is because i dont have the time to pick it up, therese a big difference between living somewhere and being messy and Leaving a place messy dont you think so adonis?
im only pissing on your mind by sounding like im some evil racist because you are a sucker for the bait just like many here are while all the others have left it alone you keep going on like a crazed fool on hero-win . ill say it again i deal with mainly black people. yet you call me racist because i despise there blackness hahah
Again, it comes down to my initial point. YOUR poor judgement of the people you choose to screen (in this case lack of adequate screening) and lack of criteria for your rental properties as well as not having backup capital to perform such checks. YOU choose your tenants, they do not choose you.
I don`t see a difference in living standards based on the pictures you have posted and the ones you malign and describe. Dirtiness is dirtiness no matter what race you are or whether you are renting or own the property.
You are racist because you think the color of one`s skin is the cause instead of environmental factors.
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and on the "black issue" again, ill never treat a black person bad, to me id fear negative karma for treating anyone bad or hell i might get shot, but im just not that type of person to get into with name calling
i simply take note for what and how they are
im thankful for my black brothers especially ones who are athletic and play basketball , if it wereent for them id probably never have a decent jumper or attained the agility i have from playing very fast and skilled black people
what is so gay about this part of the thread is adonis feeling like he has to take offense to all this like some freedom fighter
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People from India and China often come from poverty but they don't go around collecting welfare, committing crimes and usually don't have general social problems like black and hispanic people do.
Poverty is an excuse to cover up the deep rooted problems within the black community. They're given affirmative action, and quotas and still they're mediocre to the last degree.
Please provide statistics or data for this. You can`t. Why make a statement you cannot back up?
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Eastern European Jewish women are fucking hot.
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and on the "black issue" again, ill never treat a black person bad, to me id fear negative karma for treating anyone bad or hell i might get shot, but im just not that type of person to get into with name calling
i simply take note for what and how they are
im thankful for my black brothers especially ones who are athletic and play basketball , if it wereent for them id probably never have a decent jumper or attained the agility i have from playing very fast and skilled black people
what is so gay about this part of the thread is adonis feeling like he has to take offense to all this like some freedom fighter
The inherent issue here I take offense with transcends race. It is ignorance and you are displaying a ton of it.
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People from India and China often come from poverty but they don't go around collecting welfare, committing crimes and usually don't have general social problems like black and hispanic people do.
Poverty is an excuse to cover up the deep rooted problems within the black community. They're given affirmative action, and quotas and still they're mediocre to the last degree.
Yah Bill Richardson and Barack Obama have vast social problems. ::)
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the reason my dwelling at times is dirty is because i dont have the time to pick it up, therese a big difference between living somewhere and being messy and Leaving a place messy dont you think so adonis?
I wish we could find you some spare time Johhny. Would 65 days be sufficient to pick up your house?
General Statistics - Johnny Falcon
Total Time Spent Online: 65 days, 16 hours and 39 minutes.
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Yah Bill Richardson and Barack Obama have vast social problems. ::)
I said in general. Obama and Richardson aren't exactly average people.
These are hard times for all Americans, so let's stop the politically correct bullshit and talk about issues, and also deter people against encouraging free handouts to people who do nothing to deserve them.
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Again, it comes down to my initial point. YOUR poor judgement of the people you choose to screen (in this case lack of adequate screening) and lack of criteria for your rental properties as well as not having backup capital to perform such checks. YOU choose your tenants, they do not choose you.
I don`t see a difference in living standards based on the pictures you have posted and the ones you malign and describe. Dirtiness is dirtiness no matter what race you are or whether you are renting or own the property.
You are racist because you think the color of one`s skin is the cause instead of environmental factors.
theres nothing wrong with my living quaters its just messy and clutterd no damage and freshly painted walls
why do you keep pressing this issue? why because you are insecure geek never mind geek u take offense to name calling but you are fighting just to fight obviously without justification
do you realize that most peoples rent around here is about 4-600 a month. do you think its practical moneywise to do all these checkups and going to the courthouse n such? this is time and money while the rental house is sitting and LOSING money by not being rented. you have to have good faith because you have no choice, the thing is people ruin trust
you cannot let a property sit for months vacant because you dont think they are qualified. people are not greatful for what they get
you cant wait for ever
your options are to rent to the best available one
at any given time theres about a 30 percent vacancy rate
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The inherent issue here I take offense with transcends race. It is ignorance and you are displaying a ton of it.
tell me where im being ignorant. you make claims but no references like a baby crying an incoherent word and me scrambling to fix the situation for you baby adonis
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I wish we could find you some spare time Johhny. Would 65 days be sufficient to pick up your house?
General Statistics - Johnny Falcon
Total Time Spent Online: 65 days, 16 hours and 39 minutes.
you do realize that its not always practical to hang up every shirt thats laying around as soon as you throw it on the floor after a workout or get home from work and dont really care
i mean i could pickup everything and have it tidy spending and extra 20min a day,but i like my 20min of just chilling and shootin the shit with my getbiggers
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I said in general. Obama and Richardson aren't exactly average people.
These are hard times for all Americans, so let's stop the politically correct bullshit and talk about issues, and also deter people against encouraging free handouts to people who do nothing to deserve them.
Where do you draw the line with generalizations and why bother to make them? Under that rationale, the majority of all races are uneducated and exhibit social problems to a high degree. These problems are not because of melanin or the lack of melanin in skin or the degrees of shade of melanin in skin, although it has been used by people, such as yourself, to try to quantify false results. For instance, we can measure the fact that Christians make up 90 percent of the prison population. Does this mean that the majority of Christians are not law-abiding citizens? Of course not.
Second, I do not know what free handouts you are talking about, but I will assume TANF and social welfare. You cannot get TANF or any social welfare without doing anything. There are VERY strict requirements. Hope this helps:
The four purposes of TANF are:
* assisting needy families so that children can be cared for in their own homes
* reducing the dependency of needy parents by promoting job preparation, work and marriage
* preventing out-of-wedlock pregnancies
* encouraging the formation and maintenance of two-parent families.
Highlights of TANF
Work Requirements:
* Recipients (with few exceptions) must work as soon as they are job ready or no later than two years after coming on assistance.
* Single parents are required to participate in work activities for at least 30 hours per week. Two-parent families must participate in work activities 35 or 55 hours a week, depending upon circumstances.
* Failure to participate in work requirements can result in a reduction or termination of benefits to the family.
* States cannot penalize single parents with a child under six for failing to meet work requirements if they cannot find adequate child care.
* States, in FY 2004, have to ensure that 50 percent of all families and 90 percent of two-parent families are participating in work activities. If a state reduces its caseload, without restricting eligibility, it can receive a caseload reduction credit. This credit reduces the minimum participation rates the state must achieve.
Work Activities – Activities that count toward a state’s participation rates (some restrictions may apply):
* unsubsidized or subsidized employment
* on-the-job training
* work experience
* community service
* job search – not to exceed 6 total weeks and no more than 4 consecutive weeks
* vocational training – not to exceed 12 months
* job skills training related to work
* satisfactory secondary school attendance
* providing child care services to individuals who are participating in community service.
Five-Year Time Limit:
* Families with an adult who has received federally funded assistance for a total of five years (or less at state option) are not eligible for cash aid under the TANF program.
* States may extend assistance beyond 60 months to not more than 20 percent of their caseload. They may also elect to provide assistance to families beyond 60 months using state-only funds or Social Services Block Grants.
State Maintenance of Effort Requirement (MOE):
* The TANF block grant has an annual cost-sharing requirement for States, referred to as maintenance of effort or MOE.
* Every fiscal year each state must spend a certain minimum amount of its own money to help eligible families in ways consistent with the TANF program.
Penalties
* The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) may reduce a state's block grant if it fails to do any of the following:
* satisfy work requirements
* comply with the five-year limit on assistance
* meet the state’s Contingency fund MOE requirement
* reduce recipient grants for refusing to participate in work activities without good cause
* maintain assistance when a single custodial parent with a child under six can not obtain child care
* submit required data reports
* comply with paternity establishment and child support enforcement requirements
* participate in the Income and Eligibility Verification System
* repay a federal loan on time
* establish and maintain work verification procedures
* use funds appropriately
* replace federal penalty reductions with additional state funds.
Personal Employability Plans:
* States must make an initial assessment of a recipient’s skills.
* States may develop personal responsibility plans for each recipient to identify the education, training, and job placement services needed to move into the workforce.
Teen Parent Live-at-Home and Stay-in-School Requirement:
* Unmarried minor parents must participate in educational and training activities and live with a responsible adult or in an adult-supervised setting in order to receive assistance.
* States are responsible for assisting in locating adult-supervised settings for teens who can not live at home.
State Plans:
* HHS reviews state plans for completeness only.
* States must allow for a 45-day comment period on the state plan by local governments and private organizations and consult with them.
* The state plan must have objective criteria for eligibility and benefits that are fair and equitable.
* The plan must explain appeal rights.
* In order to remain eligible, i.e., continue to qualify to receive funding under TANF, States will need to submit TANF renewal plans during the applicable 27-month period described in section 402 of the Social Security Act. Only eligible States may receive a TANF block grant.
Job Subsidies:
* The law allows States to create jobs by taking money that is now used for welfare checks and using it to create community service jobs, provide income subsidies, or provide hiring incentives for potential employers.
Waivers:
* States that received approval for welfare reform waivers before January 1, 1997, have the option to operate their cash assistance program under some or all of these waivers until the waivers expire.
Tribal Programs:
TANF:
* Federally recognized Indian tribes may apply directly to HHS to operate a TANF block grant program.
* Like States, Tribes may use their TANF funding in any manner reasonably calculated to accomplish the purposes of TANF.
* The federal government approves tribal plans.
Native Employment Works Program:
* The former tribal JOBS program has been replaced with the Native Employment Works (NEW) Program.
* NEW provides funding to tribes and inter-tribal consortia to design and administer tribal work activities, while allowing tribes and States to provide other TANF services.
Funding
— In FY 2007, $16.5 billion is available for TANF.
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you do realize that its not always practical to hang up every shirt thats laying around as soon as you throw it on the floor after a workout or get home from work and dont really care
i mean i could pickup everything and have it tidy spending and extra 20min a day,but i like my 20min of just chilling and shootin the shit with my getbiggers
Hire a cleaning lady to come once a week to do the floors, wash the bathrooms etc. It should cost you about 70 bucks. Then dedicate a mere 10 minutes daily to picking up after yourself. You will see a world of difference. No fine ass hoe wants to be in a dirty nest.
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Where do you draw the line with generalizations and why bother to make them? Under that rationale, the majority of all races are uneducated and exhibit social problems to a high degree. These problems are not because of melanin or the lack of melanin in skin or the degrees of shade of melanin in skin, although it has been used by people, such as yourself, to try to quantify false results. For instance, we can measure the fact that Christians make up 90 percent of the prison population. Does this mean that the majority of Christians are not law-abiding citizens? Of course not.
Second, I do not know what free handouts you are talking about, but I will assume TANF and social welfare. You cannot get TANF or any social welfare without doing anything. There are VERY strict requirements. Hope this helps:
The four purposes of TANF are:
* assisting needy families so that children can be cared for in their own homes
* reducing the dependency of needy parents by promoting job preparation, work and marriage
* preventing out-of-wedlock pregnancies
* encouraging the formation and maintenance of two-parent families.
Highlights of TANF
Work Requirements:
* Recipients (with few exceptions) must work as soon as they are job ready or no later than two years after coming on assistance.
* Single parents are required to participate in work activities for at least 30 hours per week. Two-parent families must participate in work activities 35 or 55 hours a week, depending upon circumstances.
* Failure to participate in work requirements can result in a reduction or termination of benefits to the family.
* States cannot penalize single parents with a child under six for failing to meet work requirements if they cannot find adequate child care.
* States, in FY 2004, have to ensure that 50 percent of all families and 90 percent of two-parent families are participating in work activities. If a state reduces its caseload, without restricting eligibility, it can receive a caseload reduction credit. This credit reduces the minimum participation rates the state must achieve.
Work Activities – Activities that count toward a state’s participation rates (some restrictions may apply):
* unsubsidized or subsidized employment
* on-the-job training
* work experience
* community service
* job search – not to exceed 6 total weeks and no more than 4 consecutive weeks
* vocational training – not to exceed 12 months
* job skills training related to work
* satisfactory secondary school attendance
* providing child care services to individuals who are participating in community service.
Five-Year Time Limit:
* Families with an adult who has received federally funded assistance for a total of five years (or less at state option) are not eligible for cash aid under the TANF program.
* States may extend assistance beyond 60 months to not more than 20 percent of their caseload. They may also elect to provide assistance to families beyond 60 months using state-only funds or Social Services Block Grants.
State Maintenance of Effort Requirement (MOE):
* The TANF block grant has an annual cost-sharing requirement for States, referred to as maintenance of effort or MOE.
* Every fiscal year each state must spend a certain minimum amount of its own money to help eligible families in ways consistent with the TANF program.
Penalties
* The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) may reduce a state's block grant if it fails to do any of the following:
* satisfy work requirements
* comply with the five-year limit on assistance
* meet the state’s Contingency fund MOE requirement
* reduce recipient grants for refusing to participate in work activities without good cause
* maintain assistance when a single custodial parent with a child under six can not obtain child care
* submit required data reports
* comply with paternity establishment and child support enforcement requirements
* participate in the Income and Eligibility Verification System
* repay a federal loan on time
* establish and maintain work verification procedures
* use funds appropriately
* replace federal penalty reductions with additional state funds.
Personal Employability Plans:
* States must make an initial assessment of a recipient’s skills.
* States may develop personal responsibility plans for each recipient to identify the education, training, and job placement services needed to move into the workforce.
Teen Parent Live-at-Home and Stay-in-School Requirement:
* Unmarried minor parents must participate in educational and training activities and live with a responsible adult or in an adult-supervised setting in order to receive assistance.
* States are responsible for assisting in locating adult-supervised settings for teens who can not live at home.
State Plans:
* HHS reviews state plans for completeness only.
* States must allow for a 45-day comment period on the state plan by local governments and private organizations and consult with them.
* The state plan must have objective criteria for eligibility and benefits that are fair and equitable.
* The plan must explain appeal rights.
* In order to remain eligible, i.e., continue to qualify to receive funding under TANF, States will need to submit TANF renewal plans during the applicable 27-month period described in section 402 of the Social Security Act. Only eligible States may receive a TANF block grant.
Job Subsidies:
* The law allows States to create jobs by taking money that is now used for welfare checks and using it to create community service jobs, provide income subsidies, or provide hiring incentives for potential employers.
Waivers:
* States that received approval for welfare reform waivers before January 1, 1997, have the option to operate their cash assistance program under some or all of these waivers until the waivers expire.
Tribal Programs:
TANF:
* Federally recognized Indian tribes may apply directly to HHS to operate a TANF block grant program.
* Like States, Tribes may use their TANF funding in any manner reasonably calculated to accomplish the purposes of TANF.
* The federal government approves tribal plans.
Native Employment Works Program:
* The former tribal JOBS program has been replaced with the Native Employment Works (NEW) Program.
* NEW provides funding to tribes and inter-tribal consortia to design and administer tribal work activities, while allowing tribes and States to provide other TANF services.
Funding
— In FY 2007, $16.5 billion is available for TANF.
One week of money spent in Iraq, covers all social welfare in the United States for a year.
Talk about priorities....
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epic adonis mis understanding the falcon by calling him racist when he deals with mainly all black tenants thus dislikingthemfor all that iwitnessthemfor. what if they were all white would i still be racist adonis by callin them bitch ass crackers?
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Hire a cleaning lady to come once a week to do the floors, wash the bathrooms etc. It should cost you about 70 bucks. Then dedicate a mere 10 minutes daily to picking up after yourself. You will see a world of difference. No fine ass hoe wants to be in a dirty nest.
this makes no sense . we allknow it only takes a few minutes to clean anything around the house. you are just bitching for the sake of bitching now settle down and have a drink of piss to heal your soul and revive your inner child my son
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epic adonis mis understanding the falcon by calling him racist when he deals with mainly all black tenants thus dislikingthemfor all that iwitnessthemfor. what if they were all white would i still be racist adonis by callin them bitch ass crackers?
I`m calling you racist because you have stated that the reason why they don`t pay you and the reason why you think they live the way they do is merely due to the melanin in their skin or genetic in nature instead of environmental factors.
You can deal with all the black people you like, but that does not change your bigoted opinion that you have stated post after post. America is filled with functional racists.
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this makes no sense . we allknow it only takes a few minutes to clean anything around the house. you are just bitching for the sake of bitching now settle down and have a drink of piss to heal your soul and revive your inner child my son
I was giving you good advice. No real man likes to wash floors and do womens work, so hire a cleaning lady to do that shit. As far as picking up after yourself, dedicate only 10 minutes a day to putting your things away and you will fine.
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People hear what they want to hear I suppose...
I don't think you are wrong for reflecting on reallity, your own experiences, or just pointing out facts. It seams soooo many people desperately trying to be Politically correct, at all cost, because they don't have their own legs to stand on, they cling to the moral high horse. Playing politicians.
So they can be more popular and appraised. ::)
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People hear what they want to hear I suppose...
I don't think you are wrong for reflecting on reallity, your own experiences, or just pointing out facts. It seams soooo many people desperately trying to be Politically correct, at all cost, because they don't have their own legs to stand on, they cling to the moral high horse. Playing politicians.
So they can be more popular and appraised. ::)
exactly just reflecting on reality
i love black people if it werent for them i wouldnt be such a dominate whitey among whites
i think adonis is just having a bad day and just wants to go on and on about it
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Why don't you take a day next week and spend the time you would be posting on getbig to clean up your house? 8)
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exactly just reflecting on reality
i love black people if it werent for them i wouldnt be such a dominate whitey among whites
i think adonis is just having a bad day and just wants to go on and on about it
Please Explain why your racial discrimination is lost on Barack Obama or Oprah Winfrey or John Lewis. Or is it?
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Please Explain why your racial discrimination is lost on Barack Obama or Oprah Winfrey or John Lewis. Or is it?
not sure what your asking, i dont even know who john lewis is, but i have no problems with oprah lol. barack is a sly puppet gaining 100 % of your trust and everyone elses before hes even hit office.
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not sure what your asking, i dont even know who john lewis is, but i have no problems with oprah lol. barack is a sly puppet gaining 100 % of your trust and everyone elses before hes even hit office.
By your rationale, because of their skin color they are property destroyers, uneducated and prone to living poorly and are beneath you.
So, are your previous racial mischaracterizations and criteria apt to apply to those three African Americans mentioned?
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I hope these help some people. :) Your assignment JF is to watch these.
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By your rationale, because of their skin color they are property destroyers, uneducated and prone to living poorly and are beneath you.
So, are your previous racial mischaracterizations and criteria apt to apply to those three African Americans mentioned?
nah they are probably cool clean rich black people adonis , why are you trying to start a fight with Johanay?
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ehh im watching this right now instead Adamonia Fulcanica
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nah they are probably cool clean rich black people adonis , why are you trying to start a fight with Johanay?
So you concede that the color of one`s skin is not indicative of whether or not they are property destroyers, uneducated and prone to living poorly and are beneath you.
Just as my other example addressed to Camel Jockey-Over 90 percent of people in prison identify themselves as Christians. Does this mean that most Christians in society are non-law abiding citizens? Of course not.
The same inherent fundamental argument also applies to your generalization as well as all generalizations.
Melanin or lack thereof in one`s skin is not the problem.
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So you concede that the color of one`s skin is not indicative of whether or not they are property destroyers, uneducated and prone to living poorly and are beneath you.
Just as my other example addressed to Camel Jockey-Over 90 percent of people in prison identify themselves as Christians. Does this mean that most Christians in society are non-law abiding citizens? Of course not.
The same inherent fundamental argument also applies to your generalization as well as all generalizations.
Melanin or lack thereof in one`s skin is not the problem.
ok adonis when u gonna blaze a joint with me n stop being so damn freaky serious
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ok adonis when u gonna blaze a joint with me n stop being so damn freaky serious
:D
I`d be De-Light-ed!
I wouldn`t smoke it, but I do hear eating it is effective and beneficial as well as being stronger. A lot of recipes could theoretically replace Oregano I think. Have you ever eaten it?
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ok adonis when u gonna blaze a joint with me n stop being so damn freaky serious
Can I blaze a joint?
actually I probably would not since I don't do drugs, not even smoke or drink.
I'd gladly have a couple of Coke Zeros with you guys though :D
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do you find it fascinating that the human eye can only see one beam of light from a light bulb that flashes 60 times in one second?
think of all the things we DONT see. like polar openings to inner earth and star gates that are just above our perception of what is true reality
adonis how come you are so stuck on the plain and simple things that any average man can trash talk about learning nothing, or perhaps you do learn from pointing out rascism? the whole topic is pretty black and white annd elementary please spare me
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:D
I`d be De-Light-ed!
I wouldn`t smoke it, but I do hear eating it is effective and beneficial as well as being stronger. A lot of recipes could theoretically replace Oregano I think. Have you ever eaten it?
i think i have once but i was also smoking it aswell
if i beat you in a running race would you consider smoking it? ;D
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do you find it fascinating that the human eye can only see one beam of light from a light bulb that flashes 60 times in one second?
think of all the things we DONT see. like polar openings to inner earth and star gates that are just above our perception of what is true reality
adonis how come you are so stuck on the plain and simple things that any average man can trash talk about learning nothing, or perhaps you do learn from pointing out rascism? the whole topic is pretty black and white annd elementary please spare me
Now that is astonishing. We don't see anything that moves too fast for us to see.
There may be a vast array of events occurring we are simply incapable of perceiving.
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Now that is astonishing. We don't see anything that moves too fast for us to see.
There may be a vast array of events occurring we are simply incapable of perceiving.
yes people think we are so superior and think that there are no gods or goddesses or higher beings , humans are so slow we cant even see the full extent of man madecreations such as a light bulb flash
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this i good after about half way
talking about the merkabah and the star of david geometry shiznit a space ships
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yes people think we are so superior and think that there are no gods or goddesses or higher beings , humans are so slow we cant even see the full extent of man madecreations such as a light bulb flash
My Greyhounds are able to see at higher speed since they travel so fast.
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My Greyhounds are able to see at higher speed since they travel so fast.
when your mind is open you travel faster too and willigness to learn something new and not stuck in the past and at the half way point or starting line like some
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Can I blaze a joint?
actually I probably would not since I don't do drugs, not even smoke or drink.
I'd gladly have a couple of Coke Zeros with you guys though :D
AXA why dont you pick up a book on hebrew an stop being so damn silly
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ALIENS :o
who believes in their existence?
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tough situation here. You give them the $34 billion and they'll be back in 6 weeks asking for $60B.
Their success models aren't taking into account the diving consumer purchasing. They won't even look at the cameras and tell us the $ will fix it - only that it'll fix it for now.
There is an expression: "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging"!! They knew this was coming, and they did nothing to help themselves! I agree, that they will come back for more!!! :-X
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"Blacks: America's danciest rape folk" - Family Guy
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ALIENS :o
who believes in their existence?
Considering that the universe is so vast we aren't capable of figuring whether there's even an end to it, I think the belief that we are not alone is an intelligent one. I think it doesn't even require high intelligence, it's just pretty obvious.
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Considering that the universe is so vast we aren't capable of figuring whether there's even an end to it, I think the belief that we are not alone is an intelligent one. I think it doesn't even require high intelligence, it's just pretty obvious.
couldn't have said it better myself ;)
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couldn't have said it better myself ;)
You're a good man, AXA. ;)
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You're a good man, AXA. ;)
I hate these close minded people who say, oh we are the only living things in this entire universe. ..... ::)
the universe is so big, it would take millions of years of traveling at the speed of light to get anywhere, yet they somehow still
believe we're the only living things LMAO.
I wonder if they are less or more advanced than us, I'm guessing more advanced, just based on the fact
that the milky way hasn't been around as long as the other galaxies.
I just hope who ever is out there is friendly and comes in PEACE >:(
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I hate these close minded people who say, oh we are the only living things in this entire universe. ..... ::)
the universe is so big, it would take millions of years of traveling at the speed of light to get anywhere, yet they somehow still
believe we're the only living things LMAO.
I wonder if they are less or more advanced than us, I'm guessing more advanced, just based on the fact
that the milky way hasn't been around as long as the other galaxies.
I just hope who ever is out there is friendly and comes in PEACE >:(
Trust me, if they're intelligent enough to make their way to us, they will have nothing but noble intentions. Violence and destructive interests are unintelligent because they are ignorant to the fact that the energy that constitutes and manifests all things is all a part of itself.
Also, honestly, some people just won't understand. :-\ They're on their own journey and haven't developed to that point required yet.
Some people simply aren't smart enough to grasp certain concepts. So don't let those people bother you, and don't even try to reach them if it is apparent they can't grasp it. Just form your own concept of things and be content with your approach. ;)
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Trust me, if they're intelligent enough to make their way to us, they will have nothing but noble intentions. Violence and destructive interests are unintelligent because they are ignorant to the fact that the energy that constitutes and manifests all things is all a part of itself.
Also, honestly, some people just won't understand. :-\ They're on their own journey and haven't developed to that point required yet.
Some people simply aren't smart enough to grasp certain concepts. So don't let those people bother you, and don't even try to reach them if it is apparent they can't grasp it. Just form your own concept of things and be content with your approach. ;)
When I see an Atheist, I feel sorry for them, they have no hope in life. Literally, no god, no hope!
some people just want to believe that we were simply created out of nothingness for no reason.
even though all the laws of nature create disorder, it somehow by some chance formed into the complete beings that we are today
MAGICALLY!
They call Atheism "Logical" I call it "Illogical"
it's wiser to believe in a creator than to believe everything just happened BY CHANCE!
Many people of this world need to open up their eyes and see. :-\
they're blinding themselves and hurting themselves by limiting themselves so much.
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When I see an Atheist, I feel sorry for them, they have no hope in life. Literally, no god, no hope!
some people just want to believe that we were simply created out of nothingness for no reason.
even though all the laws of nature create disorder, it somehow by some chance formed into the complete beings that we are today
MAGICALLY!
They call Atheism "Logical" I call it "Illogical"
it's wiser to believe in a creator than to believe everything just happened BY CHANCE!
Many people of this world need to open up their eyes and see. :-\
they're blinding themselves and hurting themselves by limiting themselves so much.
Most athiests I've met are actually just very critical thinkers who have reached a "sticking point" in their concept of everything. I have far more respect for them if they don't believe because of critical thinking than someone who does believe because they've blindly believed what someone else told them. Most of them just haven't developed to the point of understanding things in terms of ENERGY, in terms of everything operating interconnectedly and ENERGETICALLY. But, again, most athiests I've met are mentally far past anyone who has blindly accepted things.
I was a christian when I was younger. Once I developed very critical thinking skills I developed into an athiest because the stories were so outlandish. Then I discovered metaphysics and started thinking in terms of energy. My sense for energy, my surroundings, etc... continued to grow. Through time I realized everything is interconnected energetically, is in a sense the same thing and is contributing to itself, to this "pool" of energy we consider everything to be. I am now the furthest thing from an athiest, believing deeply in god, just not associated with one particular religion. I believe deeply in the fact that god is all things and is the progressive energy that manifests and interconnects all things. ;)
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Most athiests I've met are actually just very critical thinkers who have reached a "sticking point" in their concept of everything. I have far more respect for them if they don't believe because of critical thinking than someone who does believe because they've blindly believed what someone else told them. Most of them just haven't developed to the point of understanding things in terms of ENERGY, in terms of everything operating interconnectedly and ENERGETICALLY. But, again, most athiests I've met are mentally far past anyone who has blindly accepted things.
I was a christian when I was younger. Once I developed very critical thinking skills I developed into an athiest because the stories were so outlandish. Then I discovered metaphysics and started thinking in terms of energy. My sense for energy, my surroundings, etc... continued to grow. Through time I realized everything is interconnected energetically, is in a sense the same thing and is contributing to itself, to this "pool" of energy we consider everything to be. I am now the furthest thing from an athiest, believing deeply in god, just not associated with one particular religion. I believe deeply in the fact that god is all things and is the progressive energy that manifests and interconnects all things. ;)
You may find some of these articals interesting.
http://www.khouse.org/articles_cat/2008/technical/
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You may find some of these articals interesting.
http://www.khouse.org/articles_cat/2008/technical/
Thanks, Coach.
You may find these quotes interesting:
"Drink water from your own cistern, flowing water from your own well." (The Book of Proverbs 5:15)
"But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?" (Isaiah 36:12) (See also 2 Kings 18:27)
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=250772.0 ;)
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BTW,
I believe in Christian principles, and I also believe in many other religions' principles.
I view them in consolidated form. This is often far from people's interpretations.
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Most athiests I've met are actually just very critical thinkers who have reached a "sticking point" in their concept of everything. I have far more respect for them if they don't believe because of critical thinking than someone who does believe because they've blindly believed what someone else told them. Most of them just haven't developed to the point of understanding things in terms of ENERGY, in terms of everything operating interconnectedly and ENERGETICALLY. But, again, most athiests I've met are mentally far past anyone who has blindly accepted things.
I was a christian when I was younger. Once I developed very critical thinking skills I developed into an athiest because the stories were so outlandish. Then I discovered metaphysics and started thinking in terms of energy. My sense for energy, my surroundings, etc... continued to grow. Through time I realized everything is interconnected energetically, is in a sense the same thing and is contributing to itself, to this "pool" of energy we consider everything to be. I am now the furthest thing from an athiest, believing deeply in god, just not associated with one particular religion. I believe deeply in the fact that god is all things and is the progressive energy that manifests and interconnects all things. ;)
I don't believe in the outlandish stories either. All I do know is that there is a God.
I have looked into it so much, I have spent so much time just thinking about it, on a level that is not possible for most people.
I don't think like most people do, some people do look outside the box, but they don't realize that box is inside a bigger box.
I look outside the bigger box. ;)
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I don't believe in the outlandish stories either. All I do know is that there is a God.
I have looked into it so much, I have spent so much time just thinking about it, on a level that is not possible for most people.
I don't think like most people do, some people do look outside the box, but they don't realize that box is inside a bigger box.
I look outside the bigger box. ;)
Exactly, you've done the right thing.
Reaching the point in life at which you've formed your own concept of god is something you should be grateful to have achieved. Most people will never do that through their entire lives. :-\
What we need to do is not get angry at people for not understanding, and not get impatient with them or insult them, but rather to simply understand that they're not psychologically at the point of grasping the concept. This is acceptable. You're right, some people can't tell there's a "box inside a bigger box," but we can't blame them for that. Certain people just aren't ready to understand yet.
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Exactly, you've done the right thing.
Reaching the point in life at which you've formed your own concept of god is something you should be grateful to have achieved. Most people will never do that through their entire lives.
What we need to do is not get angry at people for not understanding, and not get impatient with them or insult them, but rather to simply understand that they're not psychologically at the point of grasping the concept. You're right, some people can't tell there's a "box inside a bigger box," but we can't blame them for that. Certain people just aren't ready to understand yet.
People believe in what ever makes them happy.
In my opinion, people who do good in life and are nice people want there to be a heaven and hell after life.
People who don't, for example, steal, kill, whatever don't want there to be.
People believe in what benefits them, and helps them sleep at night.
Some people never come to a conclusion and search their entire lives for the meaning of life.
Wasting their entire life, trying to find a meaning.
Not realizing that the meaning of life is living life the best possible way you can.
To achieve, to climb, to conquer. To reach your maximal potential.
Some people just waste their life away despite the amazing opportunities they get;
Others may not have those oppurtunities but make their fate, take the opportunities they do get and make the best of them.
Some men become victims of life, while others grap life by the throat and get everything they can from it.
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People believe in what ever makes them happy.
In my opinion, people who do good in life and are nice people want there to be a heaven and hell after life.
People who don't, for example, steal, kill, whatever don't want there to be.
People believe in what benefits them, and helps them sleep at night.
Some people never come to a conclusion and search their entire lives for the meaning of life.
Wasting their entire life, trying to find a meaning.
Not realizing that the meaning of life is living life the best possible way you can.
To achieve, to climb, to conquer. To reach your maximal potential.
Some people just waste their life away despite the amazing opportunities they get;
Others may not have those oppurtunities but make their fate, take the opportunities they do get and make the best of them.
Some men become victims of life, while others grap life by the throat and get everything they can from it.
You're right and I agree with you. I know this is long, but this is the way I see it if you're interested (I am the author):
The meaning of life is to contribute to the progressive accumulation of energy, which manifests all things.
See, energy itself is intertwined and encompasses all things. That includes us and all that we perceive to be reality. The point is to increase this energy contained within and therefore the power and expression of all energy. Therefore one consequence would be to empower ourselves yet in turn all else that is contained within what we consider to be real, because all that is contained within is only a by-product of energy itself, and therefore is energy itself. Oneself and all things is energy. To empower this is the meaning.
This is why everything changes in time as it does. Nothing will ever be the same thing and never could be.
All things are energy. All things. That includes us, all that we percieve, and all that we don't. Since we are a part of the energy and it endlessly interacts, all things are essentially all things because they determine the overall makeup. It's not as simple as batteries or being dead or alive. We are more "alive" than we were ever even capable of being, constantly contributing to this "pool" of energy that is all things. What TechnoViking said here is right. What he calls "positive" energy possesses a higher frequency than a "negative" would, therefore would contribute to a greater magnitude, and therefore would empower all things contained within the entire energy "pool" we consider all things to be.
The energy you spread will also manifest in yourself. Send to other people and cause other people the same energy you desire yourself to possess. This is crucial in determining the quality of the experience of one's own life.
Yes.
Happiness in a temporary sense means temporary satisfaction.
Happiness in a general sense means accumulated satisfaction.
The catch here is, what is truly, not illusory, "satisfaction." The real need we have and need to fulfill is an energy need. Everything else is consequential. Many things can satisfy us, most of them are not in our awareness, they often statisfy in ways we can't consciously detect, and those are often even more valuable than that we are aware of.
What we think is "satisfaction" is often an illusion of satisfaction, meaning we usually trick ourselves into thinking something satisfies us when what it really is is relief brought on by the knowledge that we are attempting to make ourselves happy. "I'm proud of myself for trying to make myself happy; I deserve what I'm doing for myself." This is illusion and our actual concern should be actual happiness, which is that which yields a permanent satisfaction, an enhanced and permanent experience of life itself. The goal should be a progressive evolution of one's own energy throughout the course of life.
As for the meaning of life itself, it applies to all things living and not. In a sense all things are "living." It is the same thing; it is the same energy, it intertwines and interacts endlessly. The "meaning of life" pertains to energy itself and I've covered that already in this thread.
Truth. Do what you love and what you are good at. The rest will follow.
(“How will metaphysics help you define meaning?”) It will make you realize that this is not a "fail" universe, but rather an astronomically mysterious one in which our influences stretch far beyond we can imagine, literally.
At the most minute level, everything is made of energy, which is so dynamic we are mostly unable to detect or measure it's mechanisms. We can't even figure it out because we're influencing reality and the makeup of reality as we try to figure it out. Things are never the same and never will be. Everything is not constant. It is all endlessly dynamic, always moving, always changing, never the same as it was, is, or ever will be.
Only by realizing this, taking a few macro steps back from everyday life, and using the knowledge we do have of our influence on everything can we then determine what we are doing. We are influencing the overall energetic makeup of everything, and it is accumulating in time. This, in turn, empowers the energetic makeup of everything that exists, all that we perceive and can't perceive. We are accomplishing more than anything that ever existed before simply by existing. We can each individually influence this effect, this "empowerment" of everything to a maximum degree by accumulating maximum positive energy throughout our lives. Therefore, we each contribute to the empowerment of everything that exists, but the degree to which each of us contribute is determined by each of ourselves.
(The point being survival itself is true in a very, very material sense. It does not touch on the meaning, however. But when we're talking about the actual "meaning," it has more to do with a macro ("bigger-picture") view of our influence on all that exists, not our narrow, every day lives, or role in an ancient, hunter-gatherer society. That is too narrow to even be in the vacinity of actual meaning.)
(“So, if it has a meaning, what makes that matter, then?”)
We don't know exactly yet, but what we do know is astonishing...
What we do know at this point is that at any point in time we have and are accomplishing something larger than the form of everything, as it ever was before that point in time, that we are constantly influencing it and the degree of that influence is under our control. It is accumulating endlessly. We also know that the energetic makeup of everything is then consequentially empowered, meaning the potential power of EVERYTHING increases. Yes, everything, including our little selves, is becoming more and more and more powerful. We have a part in this, a large, major part.
How does this effect us in life, to narrow in a bit?
Well, for one the experience of consciousness is progressively enhanced in time. That is profound. ;)
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You're right and I agree with you. I know this is long, but this is the way I see it if you're interested (I am the author):
The meaning of life is to contribute to the progressive accumulation of energy, which manifests all things.
See, energy itself is intertwined and encompasses all things. That includes us and all that we perceive to be reality. The point is to increase this energy contained within and therefore the power and expression of all energy. Therefore one consequence would be to empower ourselves yet in turn all else that is contained within what we consider to be real, because all that is contained within is only a by-product of energy itself, and therefore is energy itself. Oneself and all things is energy. To empower this is the meaning.
This is why everything changes in time as it does. Nothing will ever be the same thing and never could be.
All things are energy. All things. That includes us, all that we percieve, and all that we don't. Since we are a part of the energy and it endlessly interacts, all things are essentially all things because they determine the overall makeup. It's not as simple as batteries or being dead or alive. We are more "alive" than we were ever even capable of being, constantly contributing to this "pool" of energy that is all things. What TechnoViking said here is right. What he calls "positive" energy possesses a higher frequency than a "negative" would, therefore would contribute to a greater magnitude, and therefore would empower all things contained within the entire energy "pool" we consider all things to be.
The energy you spread will also manifest in yourself. Send to other people and cause other people the same energy you desire yourself to possess. This is crucial in determining the quality of the experience of one's own life.
Yes.
Happiness in a temporary sense means temporary satisfaction.
Happiness in a general sense means accumulated satisfaction.
The catch here is, what is truly, not illusory, "satisfaction." The real need we have and need to fulfill is an energy need. Everything else is consequential. Many things can satisfy us, most of them are not in our awareness, they often statisfy in ways we can't consciously detect, and those are often even more valuable than that we are aware of.
What we think is "satisfaction" is often an illusion of satisfaction, meaning we usually trick ourselves into thinking something satisfies us when what it really is is relief brought on by the knowledge that we are attempting to make ourselves happy. "I'm proud of myself for trying to make myself happy; I deserve what I'm doing for myself." This is illusion and our actual concern should be actual happiness, which is that which yields a permanent satisfaction, an enhanced and permanent experience of life itself. The goal should be a progressive evolution of one's own energy throughout the course of life.
As for the meaning of life itself, it applies to all things living and not. In a sense all things are "living." It is the same thing; it is the same energy, it intertwines and interacts endlessly. The "meaning of life" pertains to energy itself and I've covered that already in this thread.
Truth. Do what you love and what you are good at. The rest will follow.
(“How will metaphysics help you define meaning?”) It will make you realize that this is not a "fail" universe, but rather an astronomically mysterious one in which our influences stretch far beyond we can imagine, literally.
At the most minute level, everything is made of energy, which is so dynamic we are mostly unable to detect or measure it's mechanisms. We can't even figure it out because we're influencing reality and the makeup of reality as we try to figure it out. Things are never the same and never will be. Everything is not constant. It is all endlessly dynamic, always moving, always changing, never the same as it was, is, or ever will be.
Only by realizing this, taking a few macro steps back from everyday life, and using the knowledge we do have of our influence on everything can we then determine what we are doing. We are influencing the overall energetic makeup of everything, and it is accumulating in time. This, in turn, empowers the energetic makeup of everything that exists, all that we perceive and can't perceive. We are accomplishing more than anything that ever existed before simply by existing. We can each individually influence this effect, this "empowerment" of everything to a maximum degree by accumulating maximum positive energy throughout our lives. Therefore, we each contribute to the empowerment of everything that exists, but the degree to which each of us contribute is determined by each of ourselves.
(The point being survival itself is true in a very, very material sense. It does not touch on the meaning, however. But when we're talking about the actual "meaning," it has more to do with a macro ("bigger-picture") view of our influence on all that exists, not our narrow, every day lives, or role in an ancient, hunter-gatherer society. That is too narrow to even be in the vacinity of actual meaning.)
(“So, if it has a meaning, what makes that matter, then?”)
We don't know exactly yet, but what we do know is astonishing...
What we do know at this point is that at any point in time we have and are accomplishing something larger than the form of everything, as it ever was before that point in time, that we are constantly influencing it and the degree of that influence is under our control. It is accumulating endlessly. We also know that the energetic makeup of everything is then consequentially empowered, meaning the potential power of EVERYTHING increases. Yes, everything, including our little selves, is becoming more and more and more powerful. We have a part in this, a large, major part.
How does this effect us in life, to narrow in a bit?
Well, for one the experience of consciousness is progressively enhanced in time. That is profound. ;)
Bravo! energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be transfered, thus there must have been a huge source of energy at the start; God! ;)
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Hey America, you owe me lot of money. Give me the money or I drop the bomb on you.
Mao for Mod of G&O
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You no allow come here write book. I punch you face.
LMAO!!!!!!! ;D
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the whole "debt" thing is an illusion lets say tommorrow half of everyones check goes to the national debt (well then you got problem solved in one fucking day)
its all a bunch of bullshit
the real problem is peoples attitudes
I agree that there are some misconceptions regarding the national debt. However, in 2007, the entire GDP of the US was about $14.1B, and 2008 will probably see little to no growth. Therefore, it would require using the full GDP from about 75% of the year to pay off all the national debt.
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Ok, I'm done here. Sorry Adam, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
This Adam is an idiot.
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Bush has been the biggest socialistic president to date in America...
I doubt if he could spell "Socialist", let alone be one!!! :'(