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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Eyeball Chambers on January 12, 2010, 06:38:50 PM
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What's the deal? Are there practitioners of the traditional Asian Martial Arts that could whip these MMA guys ass's? Or is the MMA fighting style the best system?
??? ??? ???
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What I mean to ask is, what would happen if these two men faced off?
(http://www.retailsdirect.com/images/products/BRUCE-LEE-(MARTIAL-ARTS-MASTER)_l.gif)
(http://seanmunoz.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/chuck_liddell.jpg)
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What I mean to ask is, what would happen if these two men faced off?
(http://www.retailsdirect.com/images/products/BRUCE-LEE-(MARTIAL-ARTS-MASTER)_l.gif)
(http://seanmunoz.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/chuck_liddell.jpg)
I'm a huge Bruce Lee fan but Chuck would KO him
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I'm a huge Bruce Lee fan but Chuck would KO him
Is it like a easy win for Chuck, or would it be close?
???
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Is it like a easy win for Chuck, or would it be close?
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I think once Chuck connected it would be over pretty quick , Chuck's a master at take down defense and weighs 70 more pounds
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Is it like a easy win for Chuck, or would it be close?
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In order for Bruce Lee to win he would have to resort to his "Art of fighting without fighting.", and run.
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Traditional, MMA is for fags.
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Great thread, 'Eyeball Chambers' ::)
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It's the individual who wins fights, not styles.
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Daddywaddy would pwn all those assholes with a flurry of Falcon punch's and Failcan Kicks
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It's the individual who wins fights, not styles.
Wrong. watch ufc 1,2 and 3.
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traditional martial arts (TMA) make for better movies...
....therefore, TMA> MMA
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TMA=getting your ass kicked
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I'm a huge Bruce Lee fan but Chuck would KO him
In an MMA fight he'd definitely get KTFO. But I think if it were life and death Bruce would disable and kill someone like Chuck. Chuck isn't too technical, he's just a counter striker with a fucking nuclear bomb for a right hand.
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Neither one. A large bodybuilder could easily beat both.
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In order for Bruce Lee to win he would have to resort to his "Art of fighting without fighting.", and run.
Bruce lee was arguably the first MMA-ist. He started mixing systems together and was a street fighter.
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Neither one. A large bodybuilder could easily beat both.
Agreed. No contest. Someone like King Kamali is practically an unstoppable killing machine.
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karate people train in the martial arts
cage fighters train mma
it all depends on what you want to be in life...
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Bruce lee was arguably the first MMA-ist. He started mixing systems together and was a street fighter.
Atleast someone has some sense.
Bruce Lee is from different era, it's like comparing Jay with Arnold, etc....
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Great thread, 'Eyeball Chambers' ::)
Stop trying to imitate a man you little bitch, and stay the fuck out of my way.
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Agreed. No contest. Someone like King Kamali is practically an unstoppable killing machine.
QFT.
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Neither one. A large bodybuilder could easily beat both.
A few tried their hand at MMA thinking size trumped skill.
They were wrong.
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I'm a huge Bruce Lee fan but Chuck would KO him
You have offended me. You have offended my family. And you have offended the Shaolin Temple.
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asians should stick to maths and pokemon.
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Agreed. No contest. Someone like King Kamali is practically an unstoppable killing machine.
Anyone who can handle one of Springer's 40-yeard old 240-pounds trailer park furies has too be taken extremely seriously.
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asians should stick to maths and pokemon.
You let an asian poke your mum ? ??? :o
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Watch your mouth, convict!
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haha.....lil Bruce caused a lot of poor delusional nerds in the 70's and 80's to get their asses stomped thinking that being a pink belt in some horseshit "martial art" was going to save them vs the class bully. hahaha
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haha.....lil Bruce caused a lot of poor delusional nerds in the 70's and 80's to get their asses stomped thinking that being a pink belt in some horseshit "martial art" was going to save them vs the class bully. hahaha
You have offended me. You have offended.... wait, you're right on this one.
Nevermind.
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In an MMA fight he'd definitely get KTFO. But I think if it were life and death Bruce would disable and kill someone like Chuck. Chuck isn't too technical, he's just a counter striker with a fucking nuclear bomb for a right hand.
Are you retarted? What would Bruce do differently in a "real life" situation that Chuck couldnt do better?
Or is Chuck or any other MMA fighter the only ones who dont fight dirty in a street fight. Why assume Chuck wouldnt eye gouge, groin strike ext in a street fight?
TS to answer your question about TMA watch UFC 1-10. TMArtist got their asses handed to them.
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Bruce Lee Kicks Ass in Real Life
These are a few of the fights that Bruce participated in the ring and out.
1958:
vs. Gary Elms in a tournament. (Won)
1958 or 1959:
Against Chung on a rooftop in Hong Kong. (Won in 2nd Round)
1960 - Seattle:
Bruce backfisted a guy and busted his nose after Bruce saw him harrassing a Chinese Girl. Bruce was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile.
1960 or 1961:
vs. Uechi. (Won in 10 seconds)
Summer 1963 - Hong Kong:
Bruce snapped a low kick to a punk's shin after the punk and his friend harrassed him during an evening stroll.
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Bruce would win no contest
awful actor, great martial artist
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Bruce Lee Kicks Ass in Real Life
These are a few of the fights that Bruce participated in the ring and out.
1958:
vs. Gary Elms in a tournament. (Won)
1958 or 1959:
Against Chung on a rooftop in Hong Kong. (Won in 2nd Round)
1960 - Seattle:
Bruce backfisted a guy and busted his nose after Bruce saw him harrassing a Chinese Girl. Bruce was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile.
1960 or 1961:
vs. Uechi. (Won in 10 seconds)
Summer 1963 - Hong Kong:
Bruce snapped a low kick to a punk's shin after the punk and his friend harrassed him during an evening stroll.
WOW 5 fights in his whole career, all of which are disputed and unofficial. What a great martial artist!
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everyone i knew who practiced martial arts couldnt fight there way out of a paper bag..... true story
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Mma = garbage
I wouldn't even compare chuck lidell to Bruce lee or chuck Norris
is chuck lidell skilled hahaha just a ft slob punching
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You have offended me. You have offended.... wait, you're right on this one.
Nevermind.
hahahahahah
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Bruce Lee Kicks Ass in Real Life
Bruce backfisted a guy and busted his nose after Bruce saw him harrassing a Chinese Girl. Bruce was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile.
Shit! I trained with James Demile in the late seventies in Hawaii when I was just a little pup. He was the only school at the time that had full contact sparring. He created all this great equipment. I really like the modification he did with the Wing Chun "tree trunk." He could also do that one inch punch that knocked you on your ass. I think he moved to Washington. Also, I think he was a hypnotist.
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OK, None of you dipshits can agree?
I'm taking this question to some experts.... ;D
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Vieaz-teE)
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You should compare Bruce to someone around his own weight like Uriah Faber than debate it....
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this thread started out bad & is getting worse.....
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:-\
yeah chuck liddell a fat slob who throws punches is a really skilled martial artist...
... do some of you even think for yourselves or do you just ingest the garbage mainstream feeds you
chuck liddel is no martial artist....
geez to compare chuck liddel to one of the greatest martial artists off all time some fat guy throwing punches... he is just like any brawler
mma = toilet shit
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WTF !!!
crazy video
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The UFC was created to measure which style would be superior.
That was what the Gracies want, style vs style.
As you can see in the beginning of the UFC BJJ prove to be superior.
Than the sport "evolved " and became MMA.
Yes... Traditional Martial Arts rule.
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The UFC was created to measure which style would be superior.
That was what the Gracies want, style vs style.
As you can see in the beginning of the UFC BJJ prove to be superior.
Than the sport "evolved " and became MMA.
Yes... Traditional Martial Arts rule.
no, the graice's wanted a sport with rules where their system would be superior.
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Agreed. No contest. Someone like King Kamali is practically an unstoppable killing machine.
Actually, Craig Titus is indeed a killing machine.
"1"
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What I mean to ask is, what would happen if these two men faced off?
If they were in the same weightclass, Bruce would have won back in the late 60's. :)
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Actually, Craig Titus is indeed a killing machine.
"1"
:-X
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The UFC was created to measure which style would be superior.
That was what the Gracies want, style vs style.
As you can see in the beginning of the UFC BJJ prove to be superior.
Than the sport "evolved " and became MMA.
Yes... Traditional Martial Arts rule.
videoclip or movie of what is going on in your avatar please :D
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I would post of me standing at Bruces grave but I don't have it with me. Perhaps I will have my friend send it to me.
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no, the graice's wanted a sport with rules where their system would be superior.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
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There's no superior martial art. Comparing traditional to MMA really doesn't make a lot of sense because their applications aren't the same.
A real fight is still likely to favor mental preparedness with just a touch of luck. :) Black belts get their asses kicked all the time in bar brawls because they don't train with much contact and overly prepare for predetermined moves.
MMA rules do favor Jujitsu but I really wouldn't want to be tied up on the ground too long in an actual fight.
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BJJ also self defense.
Here in Baghdad teaching hand to hand combat to the troops.
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There's no superior martial art. Comparing traditional to MMA really doesn't make a lot of sense because their applications aren't the same.
A real fight is still likely to favor mental preparedness with just a touch of luck. :) Black belts get their asses kicked all the time in bar brawls because they don't train with much contact and overly prepare for predetermined moves.
MMA rules do favor Jujitsu but I really wouldn't want to be tied up on the ground too long in an actual fight.
Well... there's a difference in black belts. there's the guy that is desperate to get a black belt.
He would just pay to pass the tests, most of bs academy do that.
And the guy that has been training for years.
I've seeing some blue belts give black belts a hard time.
Check it out this video, has nothing to do with black belts.
Kids having fun. 5 to 9 years old.
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I'm sorry but you're wrong.
i'm not sorry but im right.
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no, the graice's wanted a sport with rules where their system would be superior.
Way off. They specifically taught (at least back at the beginning in the US) and let it be known the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was designed for self defense in the street. When we had classes they had us wear different clothes and shoes because you never know when you will need to defend yourself. At the beginning it hard to get fights anywhere because of the lack of rules. They wanted to prove to everyone that Gracue jiu Jitsu was superior to all other martial arts. That is why they created the UFC.
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i'm not sorry but im right.
Please continue.
Inspired by vale tudo competitions in Brazil, the UFC held its first competition in Denver, Colorado in 1993. Showcasing fighters of different proficiencies—including boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling and Muay Thai, among others—the UFC sought to discover which martial art was the most effective in a real fight.
The concept for a tournament purporting to discover the world's best fighting style came from Art Davie, an advertising executive based in southern California.[5] Davie met Rorion Gracie in 1991 while researching martial arts for a marketing client. Gracie operated a Brazilian jiu-jitsu school in Torrance, California and the Gracie family had a long history of vale tudo matches—a precursor of mixed martial arts—in Brazil. Davie became Gracie's student.
In 1992, inspired by the Gracies in Action video-series produced by the Gracies and featuring Gracie jiu-jitsu defeating various martial-arts masters, Davie proposed to Rorion Gracie and John Milius an eight-man, single-elimination tournament with a title of War of the Worlds. The tournament would feature martial artists from different disciplines facing each other in no holds barred combat to see which martial art was truly the best.
The television broadcast featured kickboxers Patrick Smith and Kevin Rosier, savate fighter Gerard Gordeau, karate expert Zane Frazier, shootfighter Ken Shamrock, sumo wrestler Teila Tuli, boxer Art Jimmerson and 175 lb. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt Royce Gracie—younger brother of UFC co-founder Rorion Gracie who was hand-picked by Rorion himself to represent his family in the competition. The show became an instant success, drawing 86,592 television subscribers on pay-per-view.
The show proposed to find an answer for sports fans to questions such as: "Can a wrestler beat a boxer?"[11] As with most martial arts at the time, fighters typically had skills in just one discipline and had little experience against opponents with different skills.[12] Royce Gracie's submission skills proved the most effective in the inaugural tournament, earning him the first ever UFC tournament championship.[13]
Vale tudo fighter Marco Ruas won the UFC 7 tournament.
However, the show was not intended to be part of a series. "That show was only supposed to be a one-off," Dana White later said. "It did so well on pay-per-view they decided to do another, and another. Never in a million years did these guys think they were creating a sport."[14]
With no weight classes, fighters often faced significantly larger or taller opponents. For example, Keith "The Giant Killer" Hackney faced Emmanuel Yarborough at UFC 3 with a 9 in (23 cm) height and 400 pounds (180 kg) weight disadvantage.[15] Many martial artists believed that technique could overcome these size disadvantages, and that a skilled fighter could use an opponent's size and strength against him. With the 175 lb (79 kg) Royce Gracie winning three of the first four events, the UFC quickly proved that size does not always determine the outcome of the fight.
Emergence of more rules
Although UFC used the "There are no rules!" tagline in the early 1990s, the UFC did in fact operate with limited rules. There was no biting, no eye gouging, and the system frowned on (but allowed) techniques such as hair pulling, headbutting, groin strikes and fish-hooking.
Watch this.
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Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
??? ??? ???
MMA. Kung Fu and other Asian martial arts like karate don't work in a real fight or only work in very specific situations. Consider the katas from karate. Try to use those flowery movements in a real fight and you'll see what will happen to you. No wonder the tournaments for these martial arts are full of rules, because the competitor would be at serious disadvantage fighting against someone who doesen't abide by these rules.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Pat Miletich on training cops in MMA
Question
It would be easy to stick the barrel of my gun down the throat of a skilled fighter if he were to attack you.
ANSWER: Who are you kidding? You think that people announce when they are going to attack a police officer. When officers are attacked they are always surprised and very seldom ready to react. Don’t mislead officers by saying you would almost always win the fight because you are in possession of a firearm.
Imagine a street wise fighter attacking you when you’re not ready. He throws you on your head and begins to pound you in the face. You’re saying you would, while being punched in the face, remove your hand from protecting your head, reach down and pull out your gun and shove it down the attackers throat. Not likely. You'll be suprised how self preservation insticts take over in a real fight. Protecting your head from being caved in usually comes first.
If you have been trained how to first stop the takedown, then defend yourself on the ground if needed and escape back to your feet, you would then be able to pull your weapon and take care of business. I don't know about you, but I would rather understand how to survive the fight first and depend on the weapon as a last case scenario. Putting your faith in a weapon you might never have the chance to pull is odds I would never bet on. Officers have said to me that they would die for their families. I simply tell them to train hard so they can live for their families.
Officers who are trained in MMA fighting techniques are much more confident and less likely to panic under a stressful situation. Using common sense on how to stay relaxed in a verbal confrontation and the skills of controlling subjects used in MMA fighting helps save lives. This is our main goal, right?
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MMA. Kung Fu and other Asian martial arts like karate don't work in a real fight or only work in very specific situations. Consider the katas from karate. Try to use those flowery movements in a real fight and you'll see what will happen to you. No wonder the tournaments for these martial arts arfull of rules, because the competitor would be at serious disadvantage fighting against someone who doesen't abide by these rules.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
You forgot the cat-like yell, SMM. :)
I'd easily agree some styles are more adaptable for street fighting.
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To Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, it is truly pointless arguing this with guys on the net. Most have never been in an actual fight and those that have did not fight a skilled fighter. We use to get these arguments all the time back in the early 1990s when Jiu-Jitsu first came out. Of course we settled that argument the way the Gracie's had settled it for generations. We simply fought. And we won. We won all the time. As a one year blue belt, I fought a golden glove boxer and choked him out in a couple of minutes. And how did the fight go? You already know. It went the way it always went back in those days when people were unfamiliar with ground fighting and BJJ. You clinched, went to the ground, mounted, drops some bombs, they turned on their stomach, you choked them out. There was a point where I felt that all the average person needed to know was how to mount and how to choke. You didn't even have to know a take down because once you clinch eventually you both fall to the ground. Watch any street fight that goes for more than 30 seconds.
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When talking about superiority of styles it is absolutely foolish to think that one is no better than the other. Is boxing the same as Muy Thai? So knowing how to kick and defend kicks mean nothing? Traditional aikido, the way it is practiced in America, is absolutely worthless as a fighting art. It has become so watered down you be better off training via mail order.
I was there at the original Torrance Academy in California where Rorion started his first school. I got to witness first hand Rorion developing the concept for the UFC. To say the rules favored Jiu-Jitsu would be absolutely CORRECT. The rules were no rules. No gloves, no weight classes, no time limits. You could pull hair, do a boot dance on a grounded opponent, pinch, head butt... things like groin strikes were more of a matter of sportsmanship and if the audience would tolerant it it would also be allowed. The less rules there are the more is favors Jiu-Jitsu.
Royce Gracies was by far the least skilled Gracie. Rorion brought him over from Brasil when he was only 17 yo. He was only a blue belt at the time but Rorion needed help with his school. Those in the know joked That Royce holds the record as being the only Jiu-Jitsu fighter to go from blue-belt to black-belt. I personal watched Royler and especially Rickson school Royce like a little boy. Unlike his brothers, Royce didn't have to go through the Vale Tudo ringer that the rest of them did. When Rorion recruited Rigan and Jean-Jacques Machado to help Royce train for his fight with Kerr they both told me with their own lips how surprise they were at Royce's low level. And Royce was already a MMA champion. They said that if he was at their school he would be an advanced Purple belt.
So though Royce wasn't anywhere near the top Gracie is was enough. It was more than enough. The only one we were worried about was Ken Shamrock because he was bigger, stronger, a much better athlete but mostly because he knew ground fighting and was very good at it. Top of the food chain at his style of ground fighting. But it wasn't enough for that pathetically weak and skinny Royce Gracie because of the superiority of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Things have changed much over the last almost 20 years when Rorion revolutionized martial arts through out the world. Pure Jiu-Jitus isn't enough to anymore. But I will tell you this, if you don't know Jiu-Jitsu, if you don't know how to defend against Jiu-Jitsu and familiar with their attacks and submissions you have no chance.
And I know many of you will be turned off to this type of talk but I wish we were all sitting in a room together so that my fellow board member, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and myself can show you first hand. That was how the Gracie's gained their reputation in Brasil, America and throughout the world. They simply demonstrated to you first hand the superiority of their style. We can talk and argue all we want but the bottom line is when we face off man to man.
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train in both then
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lmao !
great tips there ;D
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train in both then
The problem with TMA was the lack of no holds bar sparring like they do in boxing/MuyThai. They wanted lots of paying member and many quickly found that a lot of men like the idea of being a fighter but not the reality of being a fighter which requires a lot of hard training and getting punched and kicked in the face.
If you want to learn self defense that will get through most street encounters then BJJ. If you want to be a bad ass and hold your own with other trained fighters then it's BJJ, muy thai, boxing, wrestling. But then now you are a full time athlete.
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lmao !
great tips there ;D
:D :D :D
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Very few people here are comparing apples to apples. No one, who is reasonable, will deny BJJ and other grappling styles are more suited to an MMA contest. A good portion of that advantage is due to format. Putting grapplers in contests with muay thai rules might make them look a little foolish as well.
It's really hard to say how often a skilled fighter initiates the conflict in street conditions. It's more people with something to prove who will start shit.
BJJ is probably to blame for the TapOut t-shirt proliferation. :)
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When talking about superiority of styles it is absolutely foolish to think that one is no better than the other. Is boxing the same as Muy Thai? So knowing how to kick and defend kicks mean nothing? Traditional aikido, the way it is practiced in America, is absolutely worthless as a fighting art. It has become so watered down you be better off training via mail order.
I was there at the original Torrance Academy in California where Rorion started his first school. I got to witness first hand Rorion developing the concept for the UFC. To say the rules favored Jiu-Jitsu would be absolutely CORRECT. The rules were no rules. No gloves, no weight classes, no time limits. You could pull hair, do a boot dance on a grounded opponent, pinch, head butt... things like groin strikes were more of a matter of sportsmanship and if the audience would tolerant it it would also be allowed. The less rules there are the more is favors Jiu-Jitsu.
Royce Gracies was by far the least skilled Gracie. Rorion brought him over from Brasil when he was only 17 yo. He was only a blue belt at the time but Rorion needed help with his school. Those in the know joked That Royce holds the record as being the only Jiu-Jitsu fighter to go from blue-belt to black-belt. I personal watched Royler and especially Rickson school Royce like a little boy. Unlike his brothers, Royce didn't have to go through the Vale Tudo ringer that the rest of them did. When Rorion recruited Rigan and Jean-Jacques Machado to help Royce train for his fight with Kerr they both told me with their own lips how surprise they were at Royce's low level. And Royce was already a MMA champion. They said that if he was at their school he would be an advanced Purple belt.
So though Royce wasn't anywhere near the top Gracie is was enough. It was more than enough. The only one we were worried about was Ken Shamrock because he was bigger, stronger, a much better athlete but mostly because he knew ground fighting and was very good at it. Top of the food chain at his style of ground fighting. But it wasn't enough for that pathetically weak and skinny Royce Gracie because of the superiority of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Things have changed much over the last almost 20 years when Rorion revolutionized martial arts through out the world. Pure Jiu-Jitus isn't enough to anymore. But I will tell you this, if you don't know Jiu-Jitsu, if you don't know how to defend against Jiu-Jitsu and familiar with their attacks and submissions you have no chance.
And I know many of you will be turned off to this type of talk but I wish we were all sitting in a room together so that my fellow board member, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and myself can show you first hand. That was how the Gracie's gained their reputation in Brasil, America and throughout the world. They simply demonstrated to you first hand the superiority of their style. We can talk and argue all we want but the bottom line is when we face off man to man.
Great post ! Royce has said on many occasions he was no where near as good as Rickson who many consider the best BJJ guy of the family and even in the world
great points about being lost without BJJ in this day and age it's integral to being a complete fighter and looking back it's pretty amazing what Royce accomplished with a bare minimum of rules and no weight classes even though he had a clear advantage in the ground game.
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Its' all WWE. It's not real fighting. It has rules. Real fighting doesn't have rules.
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lol. to tools in cagefighter hats and tapouT shirts
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When Rickson broke from Rorion and started his own school in West LA that's when I left the Torrance academy in 1993 to train with Rickson. In addition to the group class I took a one hour one on one private lesson with Rickson once a week. I did this for two years. I alway showed up early so that I could watch Rickson's private lesson with Eric Paulson who was one of the few at the time doing real fighting in Japan. Spending so much time with Rickson I got to know him pretty well. There's a lot of exaggeration and myths regarding him. Like he's some kind of god. He's not. He's a human being just like the rest of us and will, and is, growing old and weak and will eventually die. But this much I will say, though Rickson is no god when it comes to Jiu-Jitsu he has been touched by the hand of god.
Rickson had a tremendous impact on my life and was a huge influence and inspiration to me. Not so much as a fighter as I was never a great champion. In fact, I'm not sure if Rickson is all that great of a teacher as he has never produce a single world champion that he trained from the ground up during his 20 year stay in the US. But his main influence on me, and for those who cared about such things, was how a man should live. To consider what kind of man you are? What kind of man should you aspire to be?
It was a pleasure and an honor to be part of that original rag tag bunch of students at Rickson's first school in that battered, run down, old warehouse where we had to lay out the mats and fold them back up before and after every class. Those were good days then when Jiu-Jitsu was just some obscure sport that nobody cared about and we just did it out of love. Little did we know how much it would change the world of martial arts.
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Its' all WWE. It's not real fighting. It has rules. Real fighting doesn't have rules.
very true....any move/hold that leaves the ability to bite your opponent or still allows you the ability to rip there eyes out are worthless in a real fight....
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Its' all WWE. It's not real fighting. It has rules. Real fighting doesn't have rules.
UFC is as close to real fighting as you will ever get. Their training is the best available for a fighter today. Sure there are rules in the UFC but out in the streets they are just as free to ignore those rules as you are. If you doubt it, try to fight a serious MMA fighter in the street.
After you get your ass kicked you can come back here later and thank me.
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very true....any move/hold that leaves the ability to bite your opponent or still allows you the ability to rip there eyes out are worthless in a real fight....
Well, my friend, there are a lot of moves that doesn't leave you the ability to bite your opponent or rip out there eyes. And I've been bitten in a fight. It had zero effect on me.
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Well, my friend, there are a lot of moves that doesn't leave you the ability to bite your opponent or rip out there eyes. And I've been bitten in a fight. It had zero effect on me.
Pillow biting doesn't count. :)
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Anyone who has studied martial arts for a somewhat extended period of time and is good knows that there is no one style that is superior to the other. Every style has its strengths and weaknesses. To say one style is superior to the other shows that practitioners ignorance and lack of knowledge.
For example this thread started off with a question about Bruce Lee vs. Chuck Liddell. So we are comparing Jeet Kune Do with MMA style fighting.
Sure if a guy who studies BJJ is able to get a guy who studies Jeet Kune Do on the ground it may be over, but what if the fight never hits the ground? If the fight never hits the ground, BJJ is worthless. Same with if it does, Jeet Kune Do is worthless.
No form of fighting is superior to the other. It all comes down to the individual practitioners and their skill levels.
/ thread.
Edit: Though for the schmoes of Getbig, I'm sure BJJ (grappling with men all day) may be more appealing and enjoyable. Maybe that will sway the decision of some (yes homo).
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Anyone who has studied martial arts for a somewhat extended period of time and is good knows that there is no one style that is superior to the other. Every style has its strengths and weaknesses. To say one style is superior to the other shows that practitioners ignorance and lack of knowledge.
For example this thread started off with a question about Bruce Lee vs. Chuck Liddell. So we are comparing Jeet Kune Do with MMA style fighting.
Sure if a guy who studies BJJ is able to get a guy who studies Jeet Kune Do on the ground it may be over, but what if the fight never hits the ground? If the fight never hits the ground, BJJ is worthless. Same with if it does, Jeet Kune Do is worthless.
No form of fighting is superior to the other. It all comes down to the individual practitioners and their skill levels.
/ thread.
Edit: Though for the schmoes of Getbig, I'm sure BJJ (grappling with men all day) may be more appealing and enjoyable. Maybe that will sway the decision of some (yes homo).
You've perfectly explained why it's so popular on GetBig. :)
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Anyone who has studied martial arts for a somewhat extended period of time and is good knows that there is no one style that is superior to the other. Every style has its strengths and weaknesses. To say one style is superior to the other shows that practitioners ignorance and lack of knowledge.
For example this thread started off with a question about Bruce Lee vs. Chuck Liddell. So we are comparing Jeet Kune Do with MMA style fighting.
Sure if a guy who studies BJJ is able to get a guy who studies Jeet Kune Do on the ground it may be over, but what if the fight never hits the ground? If the fight never hits the ground, BJJ is worthless. Same with if it does, Jeet Kune Do is worthless.
No form of fighting is superior to the other. It all comes down to the individual practitioners and their skill levels.
/ thread.
Edit: Though for the schmoes of Getbig, I'm sure BJJ (grappling with men all day) may be more appealing and enjoyable. Maybe that will sway the decision of some (yes homo).
Tell me friend, what kind of training do you do? And have you tested yourself against other styles?
I like when someone says, "Anyone who has studied martial arts knows...." as if you know and feel you can speak for others.
All else being equal you think an expert in Tae Kwon Do would beat Muy Thai? I can tell you first hand that after a year in Jiu-Jitsu I was already beating guys who tooled me before and were more experienced in their discipline than in mine. I was able to submit D1 wrestlers simply because they didn't know submissions and always turned to their stomachs giving me their backs. Seasoned boxers were useless once on the ground -- and it was very easy to put them there. Like I mention before I easily submitted a golden glove boxer when just a blue-belt. A twenty year black-belt in Aikido wouldn't stand a chance against your typical bouncer who has been in a few rows. Judo, unless you walk around in a gi, isn't going to have much of a chance against a muy thai fighter. As far as TMA goes, they are the weakest of the bunch as Royce clearly showed in the early days of the UFC. All those katas and choreograph moves are worthless in a real fight. Royce, a 6' 170lb ecto easily submitted all his opponents who were far more experienced than he was. And you have the gall to say "Anyone who has studied martial arts for a somewhat extended period of time and is good knows that there is no one style that is superior to the other." Well, ask Rickson Gracie who has studied martial arts his whole life and tested himself in the street and in the ring. Rorion Gracie went from school to school challenging and beating other martial artist. He had an open challenge for $10,000 to anyone who could beat them. And there were many takers. I know. I was there. We'd make an appointment for the given day, shut the school down, the challenger would show up with their students, and their "master" would get their ass kicked every time. Every single time. It got to the point where the black belts from other styles had to fight a student before they would get a shot at Royce or Royler, both in their early twenties at the time. I participated in some of those and always won. I was just a beginner. A blue-belt. I just couldn't believe how ineffective those black-belts from other styles were that they were no match for a beginner in Jiu-Jitsu.
Don't speak for people that you know nothing about.
So again I put the question to you. What kind of martial arts training do you have and how have you tested yourself?
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1.you have to understand when talking about TMA you are talking about watered down martial arts for the masses and sports. a true Japanese jui jitsu practitioner would school most fighters including bjj because there moves and techniques arent used for sporting purpose but intended to kill people.
2. there was already an exhibition between ali (who just defeated foreman) vs a famous japanese wrestler and ali made all these silly rules to make it in his favour and after 12 rounds ali landed like 6 or 7 punches.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrXzH4WOUdc&feature=related
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I've been bitten in a fight. It had zero effect on me.
OK terminator..... ::)
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1.you have to understand when talking about TMA you are talking about watered down martial arts for the masses and sports. a true Japanese jui jitsu practitioner would school most fighters including bjj because there moves and techniques arent used for sporting purpose but intended to kill people.
2. there was already an exhibition between ali (who just defeated foreman) vs a famous japanese wrestler and ali made all these silly rules to make it in his favour and after 12 rounds ali landed like 6 or 7 punches.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrXzH4WOUdc&feature=related
Watch this one.
And this one.
Guy in a blue gear purple belt. BJJ
Guy in a white gear black belt. JJJ
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1.you have to understand when talking about TMA you are talking about watered down martial arts for the masses and sports. a true Japanese jui jitsu practitioner would school most fighters including bjj because there moves and techniques arent used for sporting purpose but intended to kill people.
2. there was already an exhibition between ali (who just defeated foreman) vs a famous japanese wrestler and ali made all these silly rules to make it in his favour and after 12 rounds ali landed like 6 or 7 punches.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrXzH4WOUdc&feature=related
You are correct about TMA and how it is currently practiced. Machida is showing that real Karate is very effective in a fight. But he is also proficient in the ground game. You need both now. The reason I would advise Jiu-Jitsu for the average person is that in a street fight there's no squaring off, dancing around, jabs, kicks, etc. Two guys just clash and you find yourself in the clinch. Also, in Jiu-Jitsu you become very comfortable in the physicality of a fight. The physical contact. You overcome the urge to flinch, close your eyes, put your chin up, paw with your hands. You become very use to the violent nature of fighting not to mention the conditioning aspect.
BTW, as a kid I use to read stories how the founder of Aikido, Morihei Ueshiba, use to have such brutal training sessions that after every class they had to mop up the blood. But, in his later years, Ueshiba became more of a Pacifist and took out the competitive aspect and free no holds bar training. Everything just became a choreograph dance and it loss all it's real work effectiveness.
But you bring up a very valid point that I agree with.
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OK terminator..... ::)
That's why I've realize that I've put myself in the very spot that I was advising Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to avoid. You can't argue these things over the net. I'm here and you're there. In the days before the net when we had these arguments it was easily settled. And rarely did it ever end in hard feelings. If I got beat then I would have realized I was wrong and there was something better.
If you are interested in being a fighter and are satisfied with the type of training that you do and feel it is effective and have proven it to yourself in the real world than more power to you.
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Tell me friend, what kind of training do you do? And have you tested yourself against other styles?
I like when someone says, "Anyone who has studied martial arts knows...." as if you know and feel you can speak for others.
All else being equal you think an expert in Tae Kwon Do would beat Muy Thai? I can tell you first hand that after a year in Jiu-Jitsu I was already beating guys who tooled me before and were more experienced in their discipline than in mine. I was able to submit D1 wrestlers simply because they didn't know submissions and always turned to their stomachs giving me their backs. Seasoned boxers were useless once on the ground -- and it was very easy to put them there. Like I mention before I easily submitted a golden glove boxer when just a blue-belt. A twenty year black-belt in Aikido wouldn't stand a chance against your typical bouncer who has been in a few rows. Judo, unless you walk around in a gi, isn't going to have much of a chance against a muy thai fighter. As far as TMA goes, they are the weakest of the bunch as Royce clearly showed in the early days of the UFC. All those katas and choreograph moves are worthless in a real fight. Royce, a 6' 170lb ecto easily submitted all his opponents who were far more experienced than he was. And you have the gall to say "Anyone who has studied martial arts for a somewhat extended period of time and is good knows that there is no one style that is superior to the other." Well, ask Rickson Gracie who has studied martial arts his whole life and tested himself in the street and in the ring. Rorion Gracie went from school to school challenging and beating other martial artist. He had an open challenge for $10,000 to anyone who could beat them. And there were many takers. I know. I was there. We'd make an appointment for the given day, shut the school down, the challenger would show up with their students, and their "master" would get their ass kicked every time. Every single time. It got to the point where the black belts from other styles had to fight a student before they would get a shot at Royce or Royler, both in their early twenties at the time. I participated in some of those and always won. I was just a beginner. A blue-belt. I just couldn't believe how ineffective those black-belts from other styles were that they were no match for a beginner in Jiu-Jitsu.
Don't speak for people that you know nothing about.
So again I put the question to you. What kind of martial arts training do you have and how have you tested yourself?
Your arrogance shows you know little about martial arts. I too have studied BJJ along with Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Krav Maga and can honestly say that if you were to ask any master of any discipline out there whether or not their style is "invincible" or "the best", the true masters will tell you that you cannot say one style is the best.
If BJJ is the best, why do others bother to train in any other style besides BJJ? Its because it is not. Every style has different things to offer, and if you cannot see that well that is your own belief.
Your examples are also flawed. Unless we can clone people and find a way to create exact skill levels of each discipline, there is no way that you can have a "controlled experiment" to test which art is superior. Who wins a fight is not dependent on "style" alone, but rather a combination of physical, mental, experience, and skill aspects. The better style doesn't win, its the better fighter. There is no way to gauge this.
Also just because someone is a black belt (or whatever belt), doesn't make them an expert, or a worthy fighting adversary. I'm sure even Black Belts of BJJ can get their asses kicked by a 300lb bouncer at a night club. Does that mean BJJ is worthless? Of course not.
Is BJJ a great art to learn? Yes. Can one say it is THE BEST, well no art can say that. If you truly believe that BJJ is superior to all (this coming from a BJJ practitioner myself), well I think you need to loosen your Tapout Beanie because its cutting circulation off to your brain.
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That's why I've realize that I've put myself in the very spot that I was advising Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to avoid. You can't argue these things over the net. I'm here and you're there. In the days before the net when we had these arguments it was easily settled. And rarely did it ever end in hard feelings. If I got beat then I would have realized I was wrong and there was something better.
If you are interested in being a fighter and are satisfied with the type of training that you do and feel it is effective and have proven it to yourself in the real world than more power to you.
No one's arguing, LOL! It's just plain silly to even say there's a superior art. Even an asswhoopin' would prove nothing more than one guy being a better fighter. :)
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To comment of that vid of the black bet vs the blue belt BJJ figher it shows one of the bad habits inherent in sport Jiu-Jitsu. Most of the advance techniques in BJJ comes from the guard -- the elaborate sweeps and submissions. That's why in tournament Jiu-Jitsu guys often don't even bother going for a take down and getting the top position and just pull guard like this guy did. This is great when both are wearing a gi and no punches are being thrown but all that changes in a fight. That's why most of the top of top Jiu-Jitsu champs don't become MMA champs. They never learned stand up, never learned how to take a guy down and to defend the take down. By the time they start learning it is when they want to become professional fighters. That's why I think, as of today, a champion wrestler would have a better chance at being a top MMA fighter than a champion BJJ guy. There manner of training is better suited for fighting. Not depending on the gi, being very aggressive, knowing how to use your weight to control your opponent, being a great shape, getting the top position. There's a lot of dead time in a Jiu-Jitsu match where you can just hold on to the gi and stall. Even Helio Gracie complained about how sport Jiu-Jitsu has lost so much of it's combat effectiveness with guys relying on winning by points than submissions.
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That's why I've realize that I've put myself in the very spot that I was advising Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to avoid. You can't argue these things over the net. I'm here and you're there. In the days before the net when we had these arguments it was easily settled. And rarely did it ever end in hard feelings. If I got beat then I would have realized I was wrong and there was something better.
If you are interested in being a fighter and are satisfied with the type of training that you do and feel it is effective and have proven it to yourself in the real world than more power to you.
that wasn't my point but whatever....besides you don't show up to train or roll with someone and bite them and gouge there eyes out.....
there was a fight outside a bar in my neck of the woods and a dude got bitten so bad he nearly bled out & died....later on at the court trial it came out that the dude that nearly died was a brown belt in Jiu-Jitsu..the other guy was just a drunk street fighter being an asshole....long story short the guy had tried to tie the guy up and get um to the ground but met a rude awakening....
but since your the terminator a guy could literally gouge out both your eyes blinding you for life and it wouldn't effect you in the least....I'm sure you would still armbar him huh....
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Your arrogance shows you know little about martial arts. I too have studied BJJ along with Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Krav Maga and can honestly say that if you were to ask any master of any discipline out there whether or not their style is "invincible" or "the best", the true masters will tell you that you cannot say one style is the best.
If BJJ is the best, why do others bother to train in any other style besides BJJ? Its because it is not. Every style has different things to offer, and if you cannot see that well that is your own belief.
Your examples are also flawed. Unless we can clone people and find a way to create exact skill levels of each discipline, there is no way that you can have a "controlled experiment" to test which art is superior. Who wins a fight is not dependent on "style" alone, but rather a combination of physical, mental, experience, and skill aspects. The better style doesn't win, its the better fighter. There is no way to gauge this.
Also just because someone is a black belt (or whatever belt), doesn't make them an expert, or a worthy fighting adversary. I'm sure even Black Belts of BJJ can get their asses kicked by a 300lb bouncer at a night club. Does that mean BJJ is worthless? Of course not.
Is BJJ a great art to learn? Yes. Can one say it is THE BEST, well no art can say that. If you truly believe that BJJ is superior to all (this coming from a BJJ practitioner myself), well I think you need to loosen your Tapout Beanie because its cutting circulation off to your brain.
I consider Helio Gracie a true master. I consider Carlos Gracie a true master. I consider Rolls Gracie a true master. I consider Rickson Gracie a true master. All believe that Jiu-Jitsu is superior to all others and all have tested themselves and proven themselves in the ring and street. They all challenged other martial arts and won. I saw a skinny weakling, Royce Gracie, who had the skill level of a purple belt beat guys more experience and physically more superior to him.
I have beat guys who were bigger, stronger and more experience than I was. I saw on a regular basis fighters from all disciplines come into the Torrance Academy during the 1990s and get there ass handed to them.
But as I have made abundantly clear, if you want to be a serious fighter then BJJ is not enough. But one thing I know to be true, if don't have some knowledge and skill in Jiu-Jitsu and you want to fight MMA you will have no chance.
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that wasn't my point but whatever....besides you don't show up to train or roll with someone and bite them and gouge there eyes out.....
there was a fight outside a bar in my neck of the woods and a dude got bitten so bad he nearly bled out & died....later on at the court trial it came out that the dude that nearly died was a brown belt in Jiu-Jitsu..the other guy was just a drunk street fighter being an asshole....long story short the guy had tried to tie the guy up and get um to the ground but met a rude awakening....
but since your the terminator a guy could literally gouge out both your eyes blinding you for life and it wouldn't effect you in the least....I'm sure you would still armbar him huh....
Exactly. Real world is different from UFC.
Pellius, all of your evidence based on BJJs superiority are "UFC" references and your own personal experiences. Keep in mind that UFC rules heavily favor BJJ over other forms of martial arts. Other arts emphasize attacks to vital parts of the body (groin, throat etc) which is not allowed in "the octagon".
You say that "All those katas and choreograph moves are worthless in a real fight" which shows me your ignorance and your lack of understanding of other art forms. Other martial arts practice forms to develop power and balance. Nobody does forms/katas then goes out and thinks he can kick ass. There is much more to the training, and forms/katas are only 1 part of the training.
But to reiterate, your belief that your technique is superior really just shows your ignorance and the ignorance of the people teaching you. No one can say one art form is better than the other. Masters get their ass-kicked by every day folk in the real world. That doesn't mean their art is inferior etc., its just reality.
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I consider Helio Gracie a true master. I consider Carlos Gracie a true master. I consider Rolls Gracie a true master. I consider Rickson Gracie a true master. All believe that Jiu-Jitsu is superior to all others and all have tested themselves and proven themselves in the ring and street. They all challenged other martial arts and won. I saw a skinny weakling, Royce Gracie, who had the skill level of a purple belt beat guys more experience and physically more superior to him.
I have beat guys who were bigger, stronger and more experience than I was. I saw on a regular basis fighters from all disciplines come into the Torrance Academy during the 1990s and get there ass handed to them.
But as I have made abundantly clear, if you want to be a serious fighter then BJJ is not enough. But one thing I know to be true, if don't have some knowledge and skill in Jiu-Jitsu and you want to fight MMA you will have no chance.
I agree if your goal is to be an MMA fighter than this is true. But most do not "aspire" such ambitious goals in life. Majority of people who study martial arts have no intention of stepping into the "octagon".
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Exactly. Real world is different from UFC.
Pellius, all of your evidence based on BJJs superiority are "UFC" references and your own personal experiences. Keep in mind that UFC rules heavily favor BJJ over other forms of martial arts. Other arts emphasize attacks to vital parts of the body (groin, throat etc) which is not allowed in "the octagon".
You say that "All those katas and choreograph moves are worthless in a real fight" which shows me your ignorance and your lack of understanding of other art forms. Other martial arts practice forms to develop power and balance. Nobody does forms/katas then goes out and thinks he can kick ass. There is much more to the training, and forms/katas are only 1 part of the training.
But to reiterate, your belief that your technique is superior really just shows your ignorance and the ignorance of the people teaching you. No one can say one art form is better than the other. Masters get their ass-kicked by every day folk in the real world. That doesn't mean their art is inferior etc., its just reality.
OK master, let me know when you ever get into a real fight with someone who knows what he's doing and we'll see who the ignorant one is.
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Exactly. Real world is different from UFC.
yep...you get some crazy coked up street fighter that is going for the jugular,groin,eyes,biting like a rabid dog all bets are off.....yea its real easy to say I would take um down & choke um out it's another thing to do it.& we haven't even got into the weapons like pool sticks broken beer bottles and knives....there are other martial arts that are far better at dealing with these type threats than Jiu jitsu......
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OK master, let me know when you ever get into a real fight with someone who knows what he's doing and we'll see who the ignorant one is.
I think you forgot the most important rule of martial arts:
Rule #1: Martial arts is self-defense. We do not provoke attacks. We only defend ourselves. Fighting is the last resort.
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yep...you get some crazy coked up street fighter that is going for the jugular,groin,eyes,biting like a rabid dog all bets are off.....yea its real easy to say I would take um down & choke um out it's another thing to do it.& we haven't even got into the weapons like pool sticks broken beer bottles and knives....there are other martial arts that are far better at dealing with these type threats than Jiu jitsu......
I agree. Though BJJ is obviously superior ground technique, it really doesn't address when your opponent has a weapon (which is very common in the real world), where other martial arts practitioners will be better suited to handle the situation.
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Your arrogance shows you know little about martial arts. I too have studied BJJ along with Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Krav Maga and can honestly say that if you were to ask any master of any discipline out there whether or not their style is "invincible" or "the best", the true masters will tell you that you cannot say one style is the best.
If BJJ is the best, why do others bother to train in any other style besides BJJ? Its because it is not. Every style has different things to offer, and if you cannot see that well that is your own belief.
Your examples are also flawed. Unless we can clone people and find a way to create exact skill levels of each discipline, there is no way that you can have a "controlled experiment" to test which art is superior. Who wins a fight is not dependent on "style" alone, but rather a combination of physical, mental, experience, and skill aspects. The better style doesn't win, its the better fighter. There is no way to gauge this.
Also just because someone is a black belt (or whatever belt), doesn't make them an expert, or a worthy fighting adversary. I'm sure even Black Belts of BJJ can get their asses kicked by a 300lb bouncer at a night club. Does that mean BJJ is worthless? Of course not.
Is BJJ a great art to learn? Yes. Can one say it is THE BEST, well no art can say that. If you truly believe that BJJ is superior to all (this coming from a BJJ practitioner myself), well I think you need to loosen your Tapout Beanie because its cutting circulation off to your brain.
What are you smoking?
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What are you smoking?
You are joking right? ;D
ANY MASTER OF ANY ART CAN HAVE A BAD DAY AND GET THEIR ASS KICKED. NO MAN IS INVINCIBLE.
If you cannot see this, you are truly blind.
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I think you forgot the most important rule of martial arts:
Rule #1: Martial arts is self-defense. We do not provoke attacks. We only defend ourselves. Fighting is the last resort.
BTW, Rickson Gracie never practice a kata a day in his life and had more street fights than everybody on this board put together. And this was in a vicious, violent culture in Brasil where you have a lot of nuts who will bite and gouge and whatever. He never lost.
I'm sure katas are a nice form of exercise but it is not necessary to be a good fighter. You'd be better off hitting the bag.
And what you are talking about is philosophy. Nothing to do with fighting. Brasil is a macho violent culture and fighting is NOT a last resort. You bad mouth a relative or give someone a dirty look or act like a jerk in a bar if there's a Jiu-Jitsu guy in there he'll kick your ass. There's a video on YouTube where Rickson walks up to the Luta Livre champ and slaps him across the face for mouthing off behind Rickson's back. They start going at it right there on the beach. And you never wanted to run into Ryan Gracie (who is now burning in hell).
In Brasil, it's all about fighting. Real fighting. That's why they're so tough and that's why they all train in Jiu-Jitsu.
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I agree. Though BJJ is obviously superior ground technique, it really doesn't address when your opponent has a weapon (which is very common in the real world), where other martial arts practitioners will be better suited to handle the situation.
And what martial art can defend themselves against a guy who is skilled in a gun or knife? That is a whole different ball game. We are talking about one on one no holds bar hand to hand combat.
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You are joking right? ;D
ANY MASTER OF ANY ART CAN HAVE A BAD DAY AND GET THEIR ASS KICKED. NO MAN IS INVINCIBLE.
If you cannot see this, you are truly blind.
So you're talking about the bouncer been lucky? ::)
Yes no man is invincible, perhaps you should tell that to "Rickson and Fedor".
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And what martial art can defend themselves against a guy who is skilled in a gun or knife? That is a whole different ball game. We are talking about one on one no holds bar hand to hand combat.
Have you ever studied any other martial arts besides BJJ? Because it doesn't sound like it. I think your views are a little biased. Any (yes I said ANY) martial artist who has studied numerous arts can tell you there is some value to be learned in all forms.
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BTW, Rickson Gracie never practice a kata a day in his life and had more street fights than everybody on this board put together. And this was in a vicious, violent culture in Brasil where you have a lot of nuts who will bite and gouge and whatever. He never lost.
I'm sure katas are a nice form of exercise but it is not necessary to be a good fighter. You'd be better off hitting the bag.
And what you are talking about is philosophy. Nothing to do with fighting. Brasil is a macho violent culture and fighting is NOT a last resort. You bad mouth a relative or give someone a dirty look or act like a jerk in a bar if there's a Jiu-Jitsu guy in there he'll kick your ass. There's a video on YouTube where Rickson walks up to the Luta Livre champ and slaps him across the face for mouthing off behind Rickson's back. They start going at it right there on the beach. And you never wanted to run into Ryan Gracie (who is now burning in hell).
In Brasil, it's all about fighting. Real fighting. That's why they're so tough and that's why they all train in Jiu-Jitsu.
[/b]
Shit man!!! you really knows about Brazilians and bjj. ;)
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So you're talking about the bouncer been lucky? ::)
Yes no man is invincible, perhaps you should tell that to "Rickson and Fedor".
What is it with you BJJ dudes? Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting. I REPEAT. REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT. Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts. But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat. Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"? I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.
I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts. None is superior to the other. I don't get why you guys don't understand that.
I don't know about you guys, but I actually spend most of my life OUTSIDE THE OCTAGON.
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What is it with you BJJ dudes? Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting. I REPEAT. REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT. Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts. But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat. Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"? I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.
I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts. None is superior to the other. I don't get why you guys don't understand that.
I don't know about you guys, but I actually spend most of my life OUTSIDE THE OCTAGON.
It's a religious cult.
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What is it with you BJJ dudes? Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting. I REPEAT. REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT. Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts. But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat. Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"? I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.
I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts. None is superior to the other. I don't get why you guys don't understand that.
Let's do like this go to Brazil, and you will see bjj on the streets.
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Let's do like this go to Brazil, and you will see bjj on the streets.
I only wanna see big-butted bitches if we go to Brazil, Man!!
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I only wanna see big-butted bitches if we go to Brazil, Man!!
You can do that.
But..watch out for the pitboys. ;)
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I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts. None is superior to the other. I don't get why you guys don't understand that.
I agree
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I agree
Booth of you UFC 1.2. and 3 explain that to me.
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Have you ever studied any other martial arts besides BJJ? Because it doesn't sound like it. I think your views are a little biased. Any (yes I said ANY) martial artist who has studied numerous arts can tell you there is some value to be learned in all forms.
Brah, I first started training in Aikido at 8 years old, I'm over forty now. I went through the whole Judo, Karate, tae kwon do thing. I remember when Hapikdo was the bomb because of the movie Billy Jack and so I went into that. And then found a guy in Hawaii who taught a modified version of Wing Chun. His name was James Demile was a student of Bruce Lee. I chose his school because at the time they were the only ones doing full contact training. I didn't start BJJ until I was almost 30 and that's only because a friend of mine I use to tool started schooling me. I never had any interest in rolling around on the ground and always felt I could keep my opponent from taking me down with my strikes. I was wrong.
The reason I think Jiu-Jitus is best for the average guy is that one you don't have to have great athletic skills as you would in other martial arts especially one's that require kicks. Also, in most street fights things get wild very quickly where you can't set up your opponent for a nice clean strike. You clinch and get tangled up and often fall to the ground. But this is the world of Jiu-Jitsu.
But, as I've said before, in high level combat, Jiu-Jitsu is not enough. Fighters are familiar with it and know how to defend. Their stand up game sucks and if Rickson were fighting today with that chin up leading stomp kick attack he would get KTFO. He'd have to modify his game to go up against todays fighters.
Friend, as I read your posts I see you are not a bad guy. You seem very well thought out and level headed. I don't see you as the type to walk around with a tough guy attitude. I know I came off a bit heated but it's more passion. A lot of today's TMA training is worse than worthless because they give a person a feeling of false confidence. The nonsense they are being taught will get them hurt or killed because they really believe they can defend themselves. But so much of that has changed because of Rorion Gracie, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. He changed the world of martial arts. And I don't even care much for Rorion personally. But I can't deny the impact that he made. People are now seeing what fights are like. It's not like in the movies where everything is so impressive with the hero sending guys flying left and right. Fighting is a very brutal violent endeavor where people can really get hurt.
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Booth of you UFC 1.2. and 3 explain that to me.
Unfortunately I don't live life in an "Octagon" where there are rules. I also don't live on the ghettos of Brazil, where apparently everyone on the streets has got someone in an arm bar or a choke hold.
I do live in the real world though. Here people don't play fair or by rules. There are weapons, sometimes we will be outnumbered. Sometimes my opponents will hit me in the groin, bite my ear off, or rip my eyes out.
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Brah, I first started training in Aikido at 8 years old, I'm over forty now. I went through the whole Judo, Karate, tae kwon do thing. I remember when Hapikdo was the bomb because of the movie Billy Jack and so I went into that. And then found a guy in Hawaii who taught a modified version of Wing Chun. His name was James Demile was a student of Bruce Lee. I chose his school because at the time they were the only ones doing full contact training. I didn't start BJJ until I was almost 30 and that's only because a friend of mine I use to tool started schooling me. I never had any interest in rolling around on the ground and always felt I could keep my opponent from taking me down with my strikes. I was wrong.
The reason I think Jiu-Jitus is best for the average guy is that one you don't have to have great athletic skills as you would in other martial arts especially one's that require kicks. Also, in most street fights things get wild very quickly where you can't set up your opponent for a nice clean strike. You clinch and get tangled up and often fall to the ground. But this is the world of Jiu-Jitsu.
But, as I've said before, in high level combat, Jiu-Jitsu is not enough. Fighters are familiar with it and know how to defend. Their stand up game sucks and if Rickson were fighting today with that chin up leading stomp kick attack he would get KTFO. He'd have to modify his game to go up against todays fighters.
Friend, as I read your posts I see you are not a bad guy. You seem very well thought out and level headed. I don't see you as the type to walk around with a tough guy attitude. I know I came off a bit heated but it's more passion. A lot of today's TMA training is worse than worthless because they give a person a feeling of false confidence. The nonsense they are being taught will get them hurt or killed because they really believe they can defend themselves. But so much of that has changed because of Rorion Gracie, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. He changed the world of martial arts. And I don't even care much for Rorion personally. But I can't deny the impact that he made. People are now seeing what fights are like. It's not like in the movies where everything is so impressive with the hero sending guys flying left and right. Fighting is a very brutal violent endeavor where people can really get hurt.
Yes I agree that that the Gracies have contributed much to Martial Arts. And I also agree that many people who study have a false sense of confidence and have been untested.
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Booth of you UFC 1.2. and 3 explain that to me.
Chuck Lidell was a champion for a long time with average striking and good take down defense (no BJJ ).
Forrest Griffin was a UFC champion with average striking , average BJJ and average wrestling .
Fedor beat the shit out of Nogueira twice without BJJ.
I can give 1000 examples
Bjj is a great martial art but there are many other arts just as effective in a fight.
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What is it with you BJJ dudes? Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting. I REPEAT. REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT. Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts. But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat. Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"? I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.
I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts. None is superior to the other. I don't get why you guys don't understand that.
I don't know about you guys, but I actually spend most of my life OUTSIDE THE OCTAGON.
My friend, BJJ is real world fighting. That's what made it different form Japanese. Remember it was Maeda who brought Jiu-Jitsu to Brasil but it was the Gracies that turned it more into a street fighting art. Because that is what you do in Brasil. You fight in the street. You grow up fighting. It is part of the culture.
GJJ is right. You spend some time in Brasil and you will see how important street fighting is in a violent, macho, 3rd world country.
You ever watch how an American fighter talks about his upcoming fight? All yelling and screaming and how he's going to do this and that. Compare that with an Anderson Silva. Very calm and composed. Why? Silva grew up in Brasil. That means he grew up fighting. There's no need for yelling and screaming and psyching out your opponent. That guy has been in so many fights that for him it's just another day at the office.
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Unfortunately I don't live life in an "Octagon" where there are rules. I also don't live on the ghettos of Brazil, where apparently everyone on the streets has got someone in an arm bar or a choke hold.
I do live in the real world though. Here people don't play fair or by rules. There are weapons, sometimes we will be outnumbered. Sometimes my opponents will hit me in the groin, bite my ear off, or rip my eyes out.
And what do you think Brazil is? Wonderland?
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My friend, BJJ is real world fighting. That's what made it different form Japanese. Remember it was Maeda who brought Jiu-Jitsu to Brasil but it was the Gracies that turned it more into a street fighting art. Because that is what you do in Brasil. You fight in the street. You grow up fighting. It is part of the culture.
GJJ is right. You spend some time in Brasil and you will see how important street fighting is in a violent, macho, 3rd world country.
You ever watch how an American fighter talks about his upcoming fight? All yelling and screaming and how he's going to do this and that. Compare that with an Anderson Silva. Very calm and composed. Why? Silva grew up in Brasil. That means he grew up fighting. There's no need for yelling and screaming and psyching out your opponent. That guy has been in so many fights that for him it's just another day at the office.
Dude ,WTF are you talking about
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Unfortunately I don't live life in an "Octagon" where there are rules. I also don't live on the ghettos of Brazil, where apparently everyone on the streets has got someone in an arm bar or a choke hold.
I do live in the real world though. Here people don't play fair or by rules. There are weapons, sometimes we will be outnumbered. Sometimes my opponents will hit me in the groin, bite my ear off, or rip my eyes out.
yep ain't it funny how these guys set up rules...or perfect scenarios like how he said I'm talkin about one on one no holds bared...yea OK well in the real world its very rarely one on one....lets see you work your ju jitsu when it's 2 on one or worse....then you'll be wishing you trained more boxing & muy thai
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Chuck Lidell was a champion for a long time with average striking and good take down defense (no BJJ ).
Forrest Griffin was a UFC champion with average striking , average BJJ and average wrestling .
Fedor beat the shit out of Nogueira twice without BJJ.
I can give 1000 examples
Bjj is a great martial art but there are many other arts just as effective in a fight.
All true but they are all skilled in BJJ. BJ Penn, probably the best Jiu-Jitsu player in the UFC wins most of his fights standing up with strikes. But he knows how to defend takedowns and get out of submissions. Forrest Griffin is a great BJJ fighter as is Fedor, who trained primarily as a ground fighter (Sambo), Chuck was a college wrestler and trains BJJ regularly.
The game has evolved and it's going back to stand up but that's because people know Jiu-Jitus and how to defend. As I said before, if you are not skilled in Jiu-Jitsu you will have no chance.
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Anyway, it's been fun. Got to go train. Time to get beat up by the young guns.
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The game has evolved and it's going back to stand up but that's because people know Jiu-Jitus and how to defend.
So striking is better than JJ ;D
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The UFC was created to measure which style would be superior.
That was what the Gracies want, style vs style.
As you can see in the beginning of the UFC BJJ prove to be superior.
Than the sport "evolved " and became MMA.
Yes... Traditional Martial Arts rule.
With all due respect, the Gracies vanished when big strong wrestlers, who knew how to punch as opposed to slap appeared. Where was Royce when Frye , Coleman and Kerr apeared?
Also Rorion refused to invite Alexander Karelin to participate as he knew he could beat Royce and Rickson at the same time. UFC 1 was set up to put Royce against stand up fighters with no ground experience. They put Severn in the other division so they would only meet in the finals. Unfortunatly Dan didnt know how to punch and his slaps were ineffective against Royce. Had it been Frye, COleman, or Kerr Royce would have been beaten to a bloody pulp.
The Gracies did prove the BJJ was very effective but hardly proved it was better than good old freestyle or Greco Roman wrestling. The first UFC's showed that anyone with a decent BJJ or wrestling pedigree could dominat those only trained in TMA.
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With all due respect, the Gracies vanished when big strong wrestlers, who knew how to punch as opposed to slap appeared. Where was Royce when Frye , Coleman and Kerr apeared?
Also Rorion refused to invite Alexander Karelin to participate as he knew he could beat Royce and Rickson at the same time. UFC 1 was set up to put Royce against stand up fighters with no ground experience. They put Severn in the other division so they would only meet in the finals. Unfortunatly Dan didnt know how to punch and his slaps were ineffective against Royce. Had it been Frye, COleman, or Kerr Royce would have been beaten to a bloody pulp.
The Gracies did prove the BJJ was very effective but hardly proved it was better than good old freestyle or Greco Roman wrestling. The first UFC's showed that anyone with a decent BJJ or wrestling pedigree could dominat those only trained in TMA.
Well !!! let's start like this Royce had to beat 3 guys " 3 different opponents" in one night to be champion.
UFC today you just have to fight 1 fight.
My point here is BJJ and not the Gracies.
BJJ till today prove to be better.
Btw: In 1997 The Gracies went to Japan.
Two years latter the Almighty Coleman was defeated by Rickson's bitch.
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anyone ever heard of a great man called the gracie hunter?
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Dude ,WTF are you talking about
What aren't you understanding?
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Make a comparison with someone in his weightclass in the late 60's.
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When talking about superiority of styles it is absolutely foolish to think that one is no better than the other. Is boxing the same as Muy Thai? So knowing how to kick and defend kicks mean nothing? Traditional aikido, the way it is practiced in America, is absolutely worthless as a fighting art. It has become so watered down you be better off training via mail order.
I was there at the original Torrance Academy in California where Rorion started his first school. I got to witness first hand Rorion developing the concept for the UFC. To say the rules favored Jiu-Jitsu would be absolutely CORRECT. The rules were no rules. No gloves, no weight classes, no time limits. You could pull hair, do a boot dance on a grounded opponent, pinch, head butt... things like groin strikes were more of a matter of sportsmanship and if the audience would tolerant it it would also be allowed. The less rules there are the more is favors Jiu-Jitsu.
Royce Gracies was by far the least skilled Gracie. Rorion brought him over from Brasil when he was only 17 yo. He was only a blue belt at the time but Rorion needed help with his school. Those in the know joked That Royce holds the record as being the only Jiu-Jitsu fighter to go from blue-belt to black-belt. I personal watched Royler and especially Rickson school Royce like a little boy. Unlike his brothers, Royce didn't have to go through the Vale Tudo ringer that the rest of them did. When Rorion recruited Rigan and Jean-Jacques Machado to help Royce train for his fight with Kerr they both told me with their own lips how surprise they were at Royce's low level. And Royce was already a MMA champion. They said that if he was at their school he would be an advanced Purple belt.
So though Royce wasn't anywhere near the top Gracie is was enough. It was more than enough. The only one we were worried about was Ken Shamrock because he was bigger, stronger, a much better athlete but mostly because he knew ground fighting and was very good at it. Top of the food chain at his style of ground fighting. But it wasn't enough for that pathetically weak and skinny Royce Gracie because of the superiority of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Things have changed much over the last almost 20 years when Rorion revolutionized martial arts through out the world. Pure Jiu-Jitus isn't enough to anymore. But I will tell you this, if you don't know Jiu-Jitsu, if you don't know how to defend against Jiu-Jitsu and familiar with their attacks and submissions you have no chance.
And I know many of you will be turned off to this type of talk but I wish we were all sitting in a room together so that my fellow board member, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and myself can show you first hand. That was how the Gracie's gained their reputation in Brasil, America and throughout the world. They simply demonstrated to you first hand the superiority of their style. We can talk and argue all we want but the bottom line is when we face off man to man.
Did you train up at Rorians house.
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Did you train up at Rorians house.
No because I knew you were there and I know my limits. I started in 1991 when he opened his academy on Carson St. It was there that I met Craig Kukok. Guy was a beast and could have done some real damage it not for the injuries.
Those were really good times then. Before everything got so huge and it was just a bunch of kooks from all walks of life that like beating the crap out of each other. Little did we know we were part of history in the making. The time when that fighter from Japan, Yoji Anjo, showed up and interrupted the class to challenged Rickson is the stuff of legend. This was no holds bar, bare fisted, Vale Tudo (anything goes) fight. This was just a pure street fight these guys here keep talking about. You could gouge eyes, bite, pull hair, groin strikes, Count Dante's Dim Mak death touch. Rickson decided not to end with a submission but just brutalized the Jap. Turned his face into a bloody plup. I'm sitting there just thinking "WTF? This is like out of a fucking movie."
This must have been 1994. Sixteen f-ing years ago! Where does the time go? I really miss those days. Best years of my life.
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Well !!! let's start like this Royce had to beat 3 guys " 3 different opponents" in one night to be champion.
UFC today you just have to fight 1 fight.
My point here is BJJ and not the Gracies.
BJJ till today prove to be better.
Btw: In 1997 The Gracies went to Japan.
Two years latter the Almighty Coleman was defeated by Rickson's bitch.
The Takada fight was a known work, it isnt even disputed. Takada said in his biography he never had a legit win in MMA. Rickson never fought a top ten. Coleman has only been subbed by Nog and Fedor.
And it is a fact Rorion didnt want Karelin to participate and threatened to back out if he was invited, Im not making this up man.
I thought you would know this. Im not trying to discredit the Gracies at all Royce is a top 3 MMA legend, but to compare Colemans MMA's accomplishments to Ricksons is rediculous. Not to say he couldnt have been great but he is unproven and ducked Bas and Saku.
BTW who are you picking between Coleman and Couture?
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No because I knew you were there and I know my limits. I started in 1991 when he opened his academy on Carson St. It was there that I met Craig Kukok. Guy was a beast and could have done some real damage it not for the injuries.
Those were really good times then. Before everything got so huge and it was just a bunch of kooks from all walks of life that like beating the crap out of each other. Little did we know we were part of history in the making. The time when that fighter from Japan, Yoji Anjo, showed up and interrupted the class to challenged Rickson is the stuff of legend. This was no holds bar, bare fisted, Vale Tudo (anything goes) fight. This was just a pure street fight these guys here keep talking about. You could gouge eyes, bite, pull hair, groin strikes, Count Dante's Dim Mak death touch. Rickson decided not to end with a submission but just brutalized the Jap. Turned his face into a bloody plup. I'm sitting there just thinking "WTF? This is like out of a fucking movie."
This must have been 1994. Sixteen f-ing years ago! Where does the time go? I really miss those days. Best years of my life.
great story, would loved to have been there to see that.
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Did you train up at Rorians house.
Well Barnette, Fedor and Saku seemed to do pretty well for not knowing BJJ.
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I am sensing a strong homosexual undertone in this thread...
"1"
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The Takada fight was a known work, it isnt even disputed. Takada said in his biography he never had a legit win in MMA. Rickson never fought a top ten. Coleman has only been subbed by Nog and Fedor.
And it is a fact Rorion didnt want Karelin to participate and threatened to back out if he was invited, Im not making this up man.
I thought you would know this. Im not trying to discredit the Gracies at all Royce is a top 3 MMA legend, but to compare Colemans MMA's accomplishments to Ricksons is rediculous. Not to say he couldnt have been great but he is unproven and ducked Bas and Saku.
BTW who are you picking between Coleman and Couture?
Coleman went to Brazil, he was rolling with some guys there.
He almost got choked. and you want to compare him with Rickson?
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I am sensing a strong homosexual undertone in this thread...
"1"
Really? What gave you that idea?
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Coleman went to Brazil, he was rolling with some guys there.
He almost got choked. and you want to compare him with Rickson?
Yes, COleman accomplished more in terms of MMA than Rickson and it would have been an interesting fight had they went toe to toe.
Coleman was rolling in Brazil in a practice? Practice doesnt mean much unless your Rickson and count everyone you tap in practice as a win.
Coleman= 3x UFC champ pride GP champ, but he supposedly almost got choked in a practice, so that mean Rickson who never had a win over a top 15 opponent did more in MMA?
Can you explain that to me?
what has Rickson ever done in MMA ( not BJJ or mythology but actaul MMA) to rank him anywhere near Coleman or even someone like Matt Serra?
Lets leave Coleman out of this so Im not biased. How do you think Rickson would have done against a prime Kerr, with Knees and headbutts allowed?
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Yes, COleman accomplished more in terms of MMA than Rickson and it would have been an interesting fight had they went toe to toe.
Coleman was rolling in Brazil in a practice? Practice doesnt mean much unless your Rickson and count everyone you tap in practice as a win.
Coleman= 3x UFC champ pride GP champ, but he supposedly almost got choked in a practice, so that mean Rickson who never had a win over a top 15 opponent did more in MMA?
Can you explain that to me?
Lets leave Coleman out of this so Im not biased. How do you think Rickson would have done against a prime Kerr, with Knees and headbutts allowed?
Prime Kerr and Prime Rickson?
Rickson.
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Prime Kerr and Prime Rickson?
Rickson.
How? And why didnt Rickson fight Bas or Saku and why did it take him 7 minutes to beat a blind guy?
I admit Im a COleman guy but dude If you think a 170 lbs Rickson would last more than a mintue with a Prime Kerr with Head butts and Knee you are dellusional.
Rickson was afraid of Bas Rutten and wanted to save his rep so he made ever excuse in the book not to fight him and didnt even defend his families honor and ducked Sakuraba when he beat 4 of his family members
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I would like to see BJJ stop this.... maybe then I'll consider it :)
(http://mario239303.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/gun.jpg)
till then, I'm sticking to a vest.
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How? And why didnt Rickson fight Bas or Saku and why did it take him 7 minutes to beat a blind guy?
I admit Im a COleman guy but dude If you think a 170 lbs Rickson would last more than a mintue with a Prime Kerr with Head butts and Knee you are dellusional.
You really don't know much about BJJ. do you?
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You really don't know much about BJJ. do you?
No not at all, Im just a pro fighter and have a brown belt in BJJ Moron. How many pro fights do you have again?
Every pro I know not named Gracie says Rickson is the biggest fraud in MMA history. He did fuck all in the BJJ world, dont belive me look it up. How many BJJ championships did he win? How many ADCC titles does he hold? He is smoke and mirrors nothing more. Kind of hard to dispute those claims when you have never fought a guy in the top 15 and DUCKED every time you were challenged by a worthy opponent.
You can speculate all want but the facts and stats speak for themselves. Again How many BJJ or ADCC championships did Rickson win again?
I love hearing Bas mock Rickson on Inside MMA because it so true. He ducked a 200 lbs Bas no fewer than 5 times. If he is so great why did he duck Bas? Can you please answer that for me so I understand?
Why wouldnt this great "fighter" man up and fight Saku and defend the family honor after Sak beat 4 of his family members? I know why, because he knew he would get his ass kicked and his mystique would be ruined forever. If he ducked him he would still have nuthuggers like yourself who believe he was the best despite never beating anyone of worth in MMA or BJJ.
I will help you out. I know you cant refute any of my claims with MMA stats or facts but Im sure I made some spelling and grammar errors in my post so why dont you bring them up to support how good Rickson was in MMA?
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No not at all, Im just a pro fighter and have a brown belt in BJJ Moron. How many pro fights do you have again?
Every pro I know not named Gracie says Rickson is the biggest fraud in MMA history. He did fuck all in the BJJ world, dont belive me look it up. How many BJJ championships did he win? How many ADCC titles does he hold? He is smoke and mirrors nothing more. Kind of hard to dispute those claims when you have never fought a guy in the top 15 and DUCKED every time you were challenged by a worthy opponent.
You can speculate all want but the facts and stats speak for themselves. Again How many BJJ or ADCC championships did Rickson win again?
I love hearing Bas mock Rickson on Inside MMA because it so true. He ducked a 200 lbs Bas no fewer than 5 times. If he is so great why did he duck Bas? Can you please answer that for me so I understand?
Why wouldnt this great "fighter" man up and fight Saku and defend the family honor after Sak beat 4 of his family members? I know why, because he knew he would get his ass kicked and his mystique would be ruined forever. If he ducked him he would still have nuthuggers like yourself who believe he was the best despite never beating anyone of worth in MMA or BJJ.
I will help you out. I know you cant refute any of my claims with MMA stats or facts but Im sure I made some spelling and grammar errors in my post so why dont you bring them up to support how good Rickson was in MMA?
Dude, I know who you are. and that means shit to me.
Let's do it like this, you have your opinion and I have mine. end of story.
About me. I'm black belt under Carlson Gracie.
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Dude, I know who you are.
Let's do it like this, you have your opinion and I have mine. end of story.
About me. I'm black belt under Carlson Gracie.
Does a black belt in BJJ make you invincible?
Because that is the sense I get in this thread. It seems all you BJJ guys believe once you become a master you will never lose no matter what under any circumstances.
I'm not doubting that you guys can defend yourselves and probably win most fights. Nobody is questioning that BJJ has its rightful place and is an effective style of training.
But to claim that your art is superior to all and that you will never lose (against non-BJJ masters) once you master it is a fallacy in itself.
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Does a black belt in BJJ make you invincible?
Because that is the sense I get in this thread. It seems all you BJJ guys believe once you become a master you will never lose no matter what under any circumstances.
I'm not doubting that you guys can defend yourselves and probably win most fights. Nobody is questioning that BJJ has its rightful place and is an effective style of training.
But to claim that your art is superior to all and that you will never lose (against non-BJJ masters) once you master it is a fallacy in itself.
No, it doesn't and I don't have the power to stop bullets .
I'm a man like you.
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No not at all, Im just a pro fighter and have a brown belt in BJJ Moron. How many pro fights do you have again?
Every pro I know not named Gracie says Rickson is the biggest fraud in MMA history. He did fuck all in the BJJ world, dont belive me look it up. How many BJJ championships did he win? How many ADCC titles does he hold? He is smoke and mirrors nothing more. Kind of hard to dispute those claims when you have never fought a guy in the top 15 and DUCKED every time you were challenged by a worthy opponent.
You can speculate all want but the facts and stats speak for themselves. Again How many BJJ or ADCC championships did Rickson win again?
I love hearing Bas mock Rickson on Inside MMA because it so true. He ducked a 200 lbs Bas no fewer than 5 times. If he is so great why did he duck Bas? Can you please answer that for me so I understand?
Why wouldnt this great "fighter" man up and fight Saku and defend the family honor after Sak beat 4 of his family members? I know why, because he knew he would get his ass kicked and his mystique would be ruined forever. If he ducked him he would still have nuthuggers like yourself who believe he was the best despite never beating anyone of worth in MMA or BJJ.
I will help you out. I know you cant refute any of my claims with MMA stats or facts but Im sure I made some spelling and grammar errors in my post so why dont you bring them up to support how good Rickson was in MMA?
Damn!!! Mussolini layin the smack down....good arguments backed with Logic,reason & facts to boot....Thats not the normal getbig way....but it's the Superior way to make an valid case which you did...and then some...
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Dude, I know who you are. and that means shit to me.
Let's do it like this, you have your opinion and I have mine. end of story.
About me. I'm black belt under Carlson Gracie.
I can respect that entirely. Props to you man.
And I by no means think I know more than you are anyone else because I have fought pro nor do I think I am a great fighter who is any tougher than the next guy. I feel I am knowledgeable on the subject of MMA as I have been following the sport since the first UFC and own almost every pride and ufc dvd there is. I have wrestled in since grade school and compete in sub grappling and MMA about 2-3 times each a year because I love competing. I train catch/bjj ( my coach is a protege of Erik Paulson and is a BJJ black belt under Royler) 2-3 times a week and have a tremendous amount of respect for Royce and what he did for the sport.
Obviously I am bias to Coleman becasue I train with Hammer House several times a year and hopefuly more this year when Im done school. Coleman also respects the Gracies imensly and is a close friend of Renzo's. Belive it or not Coleman and Renzo have prepped together many times. Coleman helped Renzo with wrestling in his fights with BJ and PAt and Coleman trained with Renzo to get ready for Shogun 1 and is with im for his COuture fight.
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I can respect that entirely. Props to you man.
Thanks.
You may agree with me, or may not. But... most of the time fighters start to mock other fighters to get attention.
You know that,to try to get a easy title shot.
Rickson was not running from Saku or Bas, but they must pay their dues first.
There's money involved too.
Do you understand my point, sorry my English sucks.
Once again my point was BJJ and not the Gracies.
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Thanks.
You may agree with me, or may not. But... most of the time fighters start to mock other fighters to get attention.
You know that,to try to get a easy title shot.
Rickson was not running from Saku or Bas, but they must pay their dues first.
There's money involved too.
Do you understand my point, sorry my English sucks.
Once again my point was BJJ and not the Gracies.
Cool man and I mean no disrespect but how did they need to pay there dues anymore? Bas was on a 22 fight win streak and Saku had already beaten four of Ricksons brothers. Rickson only had 10 MM fights and never fought anyone neer the caliber of the opponents Bas or saku faced. I am being serious and realy want to know why did Rickson feel they had to prove themselves more? Again I mean no disrespect but am very curious at to why they never fought.
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Cool man and I mean no disrespect but how did they need to pay there dues anymore? Bas was on a 22 fight win streak and Saku had already beaten four of Ricksons brothers. Rickson only had 10 MM fights and never fought anyone neer the caliber of the opponents Bas or saku faced. I am being serious and realy want to know why did Rickson feel they had to prove themselves more? Again I mean no disrespect but am very curious at to why they never fought.
No hard feelings.
Look Rickson defeated Sakuraba's master 2 times.
Some people say that Rickson should go there and fight Saku.
Others saying to not fight saku, it would be like your master fighting in your place.
Rickson and Takada are in different position.
The problem between Saku and the rest of the Gracies should be resolve between them.
But again theres a lot of thinks that we don't know.
You keep asking me about Bas.
To Rickson at the time Bas was a nobody, Bas was trying to mock Rickson so he could get a chance to fight.
Please tell me how many times Bas fought in Pride?
Do you think he would should up there and fight the champ?
Got pay your dues.
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No hard feelings.
Look Rickson defeated Sakuraba's master 2 times.
Some people say that Rickson should go there and fight Saku.
Others saying to not fight saku, it would be like your master fighting in your place.
Rickson and Takada are in different position.
The problem between Saku and the rest of the Gracies should be resolve between them.
But again theres a lot of thinks that we don't know.
You keep asking me about Bas.
To Rickson at the time Bas was a nobody, Bas was trying to mock Rickson so he could get a chance to fight.
Please tell me how many times Bas fought in Pride?
Do you think he would should up there and fight the champ?
Got pay your dues.
SO Rickson defeated Takada who admited he never had a legit win in Pride so he didnt fight Saku even though he beat 4 family members? That doesnt make sense to me but fine.
ANd Bas was on a 22 fight win streak, What did Rickson do in pride besides have two wins over a guy who admitted in his biography that he never had a legit win in pride. So let me get this straight, Rickson figrued that him beating a guy who never won a real fight was a better accomplishment than Bas being on a 22 fight win streak and becoming a UFC champion? Do you see why myself and every other fighter not named Gracie feels that Rickson ducked Bas? Seriously man look at the situation objectivly. Unless there is more to the story than I have heard so far it looks like Rickson is making pretty lame excuses as to why he shouldnt fight Bas or Saku. Im just calling a spade a spade bro. I would argue as valiently to defend Coleman as you are Rickson though so I can't and won't fault you.
Again props to you being a black belt and I admit the value of BJJ in MMA and that MMA would not be what it is today without the Gracie family, but Royce and Royler and Renzo did more in MMA than Rickson did IMO.
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Rickson did a lot for the family.
Who do you think got the contract with the Army, FBI and the Police in America?
Ask around about the S'E'A'L'S story?
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Hey I beat Rickson ;D
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Hey I beat Rickson ;D
i've never seen those pics before.......NOT!!!
see what i did there
I said something like I was sincere then i said "NOT" cuz i didn't mean it lolzzzz
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Rickson did a lot for the family.
Who do you think got the contract with the Army, FBI and the Police in America?
Ask around about the S'E'A'L'S story?
Maybe he did in other aspects but as far as MMA goes he never fought a guy remotly close to the top 10 and his only wins im Pride were against a guy who admittedly never won a legit match. Even if Rickson was the best Gracie as far as BJJ is concerned Royce's Accomplishments in MMA far exceed Ricksons IMO. Rickson might have been able to beat the likes or Kerr, Coleman and Sakuraba ect but we will never know.
So Keith tell us more about your upcoming movie you are working on.
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Hey I beat Rickson ;D
Keith dwarfing Rickson + Royce there :D
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Maybe he did in other aspects but as far as MMA goes he never fought a guy remotly close to the top 10 and his only wins im Pride were against a guy who admittedly never won a legit match. Even if Rickson was the best Gracie as far as BJJ is concerned Royce's Accomplishments in MMA far exceed Ricksons IMO. Rickson might have been able to beat the likes or Kerr, Coleman and Sakuraba ect but we will never know.
So Keith tell us more about your upcoming movie you are working on.
Not working "on it" I do product placement. I put products on TV and in film. The studios or production companies send us a script or email us a scene and request products to fill the scene. We use our clients or if something is needed that we don't have then I make calls and get them onboard. Alot of fun and something that pays outrageous and I get alot of free stuff.
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Not working "on it" I do product placement. I put products on TV and in film. The studios or production companies send us a script or email us a scene and request products to fill the scene. We use our clients or if something is needed that we don't have then I make calls and get them onboard. Alot of fun and something that pays outrageous and I get alot of free stuff.
How long have you been doing that Keith? Have you worked on any well known movies ?
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How long have you been doing that Keith? Have you worked on any well known movies ?
Actually a friend of mine owns the company and she has been doing it for almost 20 years. I just started with her cause she offered me some really good money and it is fun. We place on all the top 20 Prime Time shows like Two and a Half Men, 30 Rock, CSI, Bones, Glee, Desperate Housewives and others. Did some on Green Hornet, The Beaver with Mel Gibson, THOR, Faster with Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and Billy Bob Thornton, Meet the Little Fockers, and many others.I get companies exposure for pennies compared to typical advertising costs.
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I would post of me standing at Bruces grave but I don't have it with me. Perhaps I will have my friend send it to me.
As promised. 8)
(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l464/calfzilla/brucelee.jpg)
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As promised. 8)
(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l464/calfzilla/brucelee.jpg)
Good stuff. Isn't Brandon buried right next to him?
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As promised. 8)
(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l464/calfzilla/brucelee.jpg)
you are one fat basterd
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Good stuff. Isn't Brandon buried right next to him?
Yep, my left hand is on Brandon's headstone.
Pugalist that pic is a few years old...but yes I am a fat bastard. ;D Not that fat anymore but I do what I can. ;)
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Yep, my left hand is on Brandon's headstone.
Pugalist that pic is a few years old...but yes I am a fat bastard. ;D Not that fat anymore but I do what I can. ;)
you look like the kind of guy who wears the same pair of sweat pants for weeks on end reguardless of how much mustard,sperm,vomit ,etc residue builds up
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Maybe he did in other aspects but as far as MMA goes he never fought a guy remotly close to the top 10 and his only wins im Pride were against a guy who admittedly never won a legit match. Even if Rickson was the best Gracie as far as BJJ is concerned Royce's Accomplishments in MMA far exceed Ricksons IMO. Rickson might have been able to beat the likes or Kerr, Coleman and Sakuraba ect but we will never know.
So Keith tell us more about your upcoming movie you are working on.
Do you know this guy? The real Gracie Terminator.
Brazil BJJ Open 1998.
Wallid Ismail " Carlson Gracie Team" vs Royce Gracie "Barra Gracie Team".
Royce was 3 time UFC champion.
"Tempo ruim ... O tempo todo"
Royce gets chocked in the middle of Copacabana Beach.
Wallid has wins over Royce Gracie, Ralph Gracie, Renzo Gracie, Ryan Gracie .
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Do you know this guy? The real Gracie Terminator.
Brazil BJJ Open 1998.
Wallid Ismail " Carlson Gracie Team" vs Royce Gracie "Barra Gracie Team".
Royce was 3 time UFC champion.
Wallid has wins over Royce Gracie, Ralph Gracie, Renzo Gracie, Ryan Gracie .
But Royce was never a high level Jiu-Jitsu player. I don't think he had any competitive experience as a Black-Belt. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, when Rorion asked Rigan and Jean-Jacques Machado to help Royce with his training against his upcoming fight with Kerr they both told me how surprise they were at the low level Royce was at. They said they would rank him as an advance Purple Belt.
Why Rorion, easily the most savvy of the Gracies, allowed Royce to go against a proven beast like Wallid is beyond me. During that time I had left Rickson's school and was training at the Machado's in Redondo Beach and the jokes they made about Royce and the clock choke were brutal and relentless.
BTW, GJJ, we're about the same age and you are from Brasil. Did you know Rolls Gracie? He was the only one that could beat Rickson and many considered him the best of them all.
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But Royce was never a high level Jiu-Jitsu player. I don't think he had any competitive experience as a Black-Belt. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, when Rorion asked Rigan and Jean-Jacques Machado to help Royce with his training against his upcoming fight with Kerr they both told me how surprise they were at the low level Royce was at. They said they would rank him as an advance Purple Belt.
Why Rorion, easily the most savvy of the Gracies, allowed Royce to go against a proven beast like Wallid is beyond me. During that time I had left Rickson's school and was training at the Machado's in Redondo Beach and the jokes they made about Royce and the clock choke were brutal and relentless.
BTW, GJJ, we're about the same age and you are from Brasil. Did you know Rolls Gracie? He was the only one that could beat Rickson and many considered him the best of them all.
That was after Royce won the UFC 3 times.
He came back to Brazil challenging everybody.
See a lot of people dont know about the rivalry between "Carlson Gracie Team" and "Barra Gracie Team".
CGT in Rio de Janeiro at that time = the entire BGT wants you dead.