Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: BFG on August 08, 2010, 09:12:07 AM
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Hello, I have read this forum for years now and always found it an amusing source of entertainment. lately, though, i have been frustrated with the idiotic misinformation spread by self proclaimed pseudo gurus such as gh15. I'm here to provide a source of realistic knowledge as to the true hormone usage in the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding.
I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."
What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.
How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.
What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.
Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.
Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.
- BFG
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Oh brother.
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GH15 is a PRO you are not , GH15 wins .
Oh brother.
;D
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GH15 is a PRO you are not , GH15 wins .
;D
Give me a break. its common knowledge who gh15 is among those in the know and hes not a pro, not even a well known competitor. dont keep dilluding yourself with misinformation, kid.
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BFG = a bro in the know !!! :o
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Give me a break. its common knowledge who gh15 is among those in the know and hes not a pro, not even a well known competitor. dont keep dilluding yourself with misinformation, kid.
Who are you? You admitted you're not a pro. Post your pics or GTFO.
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Give me a break. its common knowledge who gh15 is among those in the know and hes not a pro, not even a well known competitor. dont keep dilluding yourself with misinformation, kid.
Common knowledge huh? Who is it then?
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He missed the other two causes for gH Gut.
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Give me a break. its common knowledge I'm a gimmick not even a well known gimmick . dont listen to me I'm just trolling , kid.
Hhaa, I knew it
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Who are you? You admitted you're not a pro. Post your pics or GTFO.
I also wrote that I stopped competing to start a family. As in, I have two kids, a wife and a real job - I'm not about to post pictures of myself oiled up, pumped full of drugs, posing.
You should be grateful I'm here to help correct so much of the misinformation on this board.
Common knowledge huh? Who is it then?
lol..i shouldnt have said its common knowledge, now all the kiddies are going to cry to figure out who he is. Dont even worry about it, hes just some guy that works in the bodybuilding industry. Never placed in a show beyond junior nationals, and that was a long time ago.
He missed the other two causes for gH Gut.
There arent other causes.
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what's the secret code of niburu dude ?
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You should be grateful I'm here to help correct so much of the misinformation on this board.
How about no? :D
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somebody put the "didnt read lol" gif of the dog munching some food in his mouth.... can't find it....
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I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."
What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.
How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.
What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.
Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.
Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.
- BFG
Spot on.
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Spot on.
5-6 gr of roids and 20+ IUs of GH is "spot on"? Seems like a lotta amateurs have 10k+ dollars per month left for drugs?
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Stokely Palmer
http://musclememory.com/show.php?s=stokely&g=M
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/4832/80362/d/img_42381220083614.jpg)
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::) ::) ::)
another liar who is trying to say that "things are not that bad "
fuck off
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5-6 gr of roids and 20+ IUs of GH is "spot on"? Seems like a lotta amateurs have 10k+ dollars per month left for drugs?
There are always exceptions to the norm, but what i described is the average.
most guys exaggerate how much they spend on drugs getting ready for a contest, it still isnt cheap though, especially considering that the payoff for winning 99 percent of shows is basically nothing.
::) ::) ::)
another liar who is trying to say that "things are not that bad "
fuck off
no clue who you are, most likely another idiot who thinks they know what goes on behind the scenes because they read about it on a forum. when you start competing at a national level, you let me know what drugs you are using and how much you are spending.
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5-6 gr of roids and 20+ IUs of GH is "spot on"? Seems like a lotta amateurs have 10k+ dollars per month left for drugs?
Pro level during contest time. Orals add a lot to the mg per week dose. Off season without orals around 2.5 to 3 grams prob a little higher. A lot of guys are using 40 to 60 iu's of slin so some can get away with a lower amount of anabolics. Six in one, half dozen in the other.
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There arent other causes.
There are several other causes for gut growth.
A painfully long explanation was spelled out once but some fag deleted the thread.
A simplistic explanation is in this thread. I'm not willing to do a long, drawn out explanation because it wouldn't help anyone. Not even gonna say you're wrong, simply that you aren't aware of every documented mechanism. :)
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=277512.0
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Pro level during contest time. Orals add a lot to the mg per week dose.
Nobody ever injected 20+ IUs GH a day, plain bullshit. 8 IUs is in the very high range, guys who exaggerate may go to 10 or 12.
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There are several other causes for gut growth.
A painfully long explanation was spelled out once but some fag deleted the thread.
A simplistic explanation is in this thread. I'm not willing to do a long, drawn out explanation because it wouldn't help anyone. Not even gonna say you're wrong, simply that you aren't aware of every documented mechanism. :)
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=277512.0
Visceral fat from insulin period. It is not from organ growth.
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Nobody ever injected 20+ IUs GH a day, plain bullshit. 8 IUs is in the very high range, guys who exaggerate may go to 10 or 12.
Yeah OK. ;D
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no clue who you are, most likely another idiot who thinks they know what goes on behind the scenes because they read about it on a forum. when you start competing at a national level, you let me know what drugs you are using and how much you are spending.
[/quote]well
I will tell you who I am
I am the guy that called you a bullshitter cause that's what you are
stop parading the "national level" expression...douche .. cause you ain't the only person to ever compete or be in the industry
gh15 is spot on
you are a clown
delete your account and start over
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There are several other causes for gut growth.
A painfully long explanation was spelled out once but some fag deleted the thread.
A simplistic explanation is in this thread. I'm not willing to do a long, drawn out explanation because it wouldn't help anyone. Not even gonna say you're wrong, simply that you aren't aware of every documented mechanism. :)
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=277512.0
No, sorry.
The "gut" exists for 2 reasons only:
1) Lengthy phases of gaining bodyfat because of a caloric excess followed by short amounts of time in a caloric deficit lead to visceral fat buildup during the "bulk" and since it takes a long time to actually diet down visceral fat to any noticeable degree, it is never lost in contest prep. Maintain this process for years, you are looking at an enlarged midsection.
2) insulin causes visceral abdominal fat buildup. Notice how the guys that gain 20-30lbs in one year end up with the biggest guts? its from huge doses of slin, used numerous times per day, every day.
Only a 4th grader or a mental retard would honestly believe that there is site-specific growth occurring to such an extreme degree in the intestines that the abdominal walls are literally being expanded from sheer pressure.
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no clue who you are, most likely another idiot who thinks they know what goes on behind the scenes because they read about it on a forum. when you start competing at a national level, you let me know what drugs you are using and how much you are spending.
well
I will tell you who I am
I am the guy that called you a bullshitter cause that's what you are
stop parading the "national level" expression...douche .. cause you ain't the only person to ever compete or be in the industry
gh15 is spot on
you are a clown
delete your account and start over
Sev, I think both these guys are on the same page. What am I missing?
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Visceral fat from insulin period. It is not from organ growth.
Let's try it this way: Ever seen any babies?
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Nobody ever injected 20+ IUs GH a day, plain bullshit. 8 IUs is in the very high range, guys who exaggerate may go to 10 or 12.
completely wrong. i hope you arent serious.
no clue who you are, most likely another idiot who thinks they know what goes on behind the scenes because they read about it on a forum. when you start competing at a national level, you let me know what drugs you are using and how much you are spending.
well
I will tell you who I am
I am the guy that called you a bullshitter cause that's what you are
stop parading the "national level" expression...douche .. cause you ain't the only person to ever compete or be in the industry
gh15 is spot on
you are a clown
delete your account and start over
"gh15" is a guy that couldnt place higher than the jr nats, abused too many orals and had to stop competing, works a low paying job in the fitness industry and claims he can tell what hormones someone is on by looking at a picture of them. lol.
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If you read gh15's posts ... all of them ... and you cannot figure out that he ws not only a top pro ...but one of the strongest ones etc etc /....you are a bigger idiot than you initially claimed to be
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ls1UQ__87Kk/SlH_fMFtbgI/AAAAAAAAB1c/7YeoJ6rN-cs/s400/dennis_james_pre_co07_083.jpg)
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(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/4832/80362/d/img_42441220083614.jpg)
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haha notice how this asshole completely avoids the niburu issue
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(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/4832/80362/d/img_42441220083614.jpg)
That's not George Farah
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Hey Jim : here is what tipped me off that this guy is a liar
" not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week "
u fcking kidding me ? ?
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Hello, I have read this forum for years now and always found it an amusing source of entertainment. lately, though, i have been frustrated with the idiotic misinformation spread by self proclaimed pseudo gurus such as gh15. I'm here to provide a source of realistic knowledge as to the true hormone usage in the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding.
I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."
What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.
How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.
What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.
Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.
Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.
- BFG
1-For the dosage question you say exactly the same thing that gh15, test is the base of all cycle, then gh and slin etc .
(gh15 say that a common stack for him was test e 250 e.d, 100mg dbol, 15 ui if gh and 600 of deca e.w.)
2-he firmly believe you can determine what hormone somebody take, at my gym there few roid freak, you can determine the stack when comparing bloat, redness, acne, mood, agressivity, muscularity.
last time a local competitor come at the gym during a preparation for contest, at the first look i saw he was harder , i told him he changed something on the stack, he told me " i stop test E, i started test P".
so not a necessity to be a top competitor, just judgement observation and experience.
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What this guys has posted is all true.
But its mostly common knowledge for anyone who knows npc or pro competitors and has been around bodybuilding for any period of time.
Dont get me wrong i appreciate your honesty, but these "annonymous" undercover competitor gimmicks are kinda gay.
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So wait ???
2-2.5 grams of test per week
5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week
20+ iu's of gh
Is supposed to be a little?
Can i get an 'all drugs' ...great "sport" ::) ::)
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What Stokely Palmer has posted is all true.
But its mostly common knowledge for anyone who knows npc or pro competitors and has been around bodybuilding for any period of time.
Dont get me wrong i appreciate your honesty, but these "annonymous" undercover competitor gimmicks are easy to figure out.
fixed
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What this guys has posted is all true.
But its mostly common knowledge for anyone who knows npc or pro competitors and has been around bodybuilding for any period of time.
Dont get me wrong i appreciate your honesty, but these "annonymous" undercover competitor gimmicks are kinda gay.
yea dude, dont these guys get it yet?
sevastase is funny though. calling bullshit on 2.5 grams of test per week and 5-6 grams total aas. ;D
but i guess its necessary, with affeman posting things like "nobodies ever injected 20iu of gh in one day." ::)
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What this guys has posted is all true.
But its mostly common knowledge for anyone who knows npc or pro competitors and has been around bodybuilding for any period of time.
Dont get me wrong i appreciate your honesty, but these "annonymous" undercover competitor gimmicks are kinda gay.
Kinda gay?!?!!?!
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Visceral fat from insulin period. It is not from organ growth.
both you and bfg are just speculating. maybe its based on solid evidence from personal experience, but either way neither of you know for sure.
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If you read gh15's posts ... all of them ... and you cannot figure out that he ws not only a top pro ...but one of the strongest ones etc etc /....you are a bigger idiot than you initially claimed to be
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ls1UQ__87Kk/SlH_fMFtbgI/AAAAAAAAB1c/7YeoJ6rN-cs/s400/dennis_james_pre_co07_083.jpg)
you failed drug addict. gh15 isnt dj, isnt even asian or latin. i'd assume he is ethnic east European. he made a bad call on this extent of naturalness, and it wasnt a gimmick, because he tried to back track on it ASAP. that eliminated his dj status. second...he went ignorant on black market sexual stimulates, 2 at the lab level, in europe being sold off as gh to clowns like you. gh and this guy are street hustler chemist but that should be just all national level and pro guys.
G-Thong Approved.
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both you and bfg are just speculating. maybe its based on solid evidence from personal experience, but either way neither of you know for sure.
its called a working knowledge of human physiology...
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BFG > gh15
I hope this guy posts more
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both you and bfg are just speculating. maybe its based on solid evidence from personal experience, but either way neither of you know for sure.
I'm telling you for sure there are at least 4, if not 5 mechanisms by which hGH causes organ growth and increased visceral fat. Again... I'm not saying Big Fucking Gut BFG is wrong, simply that his information is incomplete. This subject only keeps coming up because no one likes the answer. :)
tbombz, this is GetBig, FFS. Once some idiot spent two days arguing with a board certified nephrologist over the effects of a particular steroid on kidney function, LOL!
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(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/4832/80362/d/img_42441220083614.jpg)
how did you figure this out champ?
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Hey Jim : here is what tipped me off that this guy is a liar
" not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week "
u fcking kidding me ? ?
I see, yeah there are a lot of guys even at the amateur level that go higher. There are exceptions. For example , one pro that I worked with used about 3g of test in the off season, but he liked to go around 1g of deca and around 600mg of EQ. Another guy I worked with who was a middle weight in the amateur level used nothing but 2g of test and maybe one oral for a show. So many variables.
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Give me a break. its common knowledge who gh15 is among those in the know and hes not a pro, not even a well known competitor. dont keep dilluding yourself with misinformation, kid.
You're on thin ice pal. One false move and you will be the number one on my next list.
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5-6grams of injectable steroids + orals + up to 20 iu gh + slin + other peptides .. isn't that pretty much the same that gh15 is saying ?
I would not consider that a low amount of steroids ..
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I see, yeah there are a lot of guys even at the amateur level that go higher. There are exceptions. For example , one pro that I worked with used about 3g of test in the off season, but he liked to go around 1g of deca and around 600mg of EQ. Another guy I worked with who was a middle weight in the amateur level used nothing but 2g of test and maybe one oral for a show. So many variables.
sevastase is just being an attention whore, trying to get people all hyped up for no reason. calling bullshit on 2-2.5 grams of tes per wek for pro's like that is a small doseage is just ignorant. thats 10 amps of test per week, in addition to whatever else they are taking. so one amp everyday except mon-wed-fri where there would be two amps. thats a huge amount of steroid, and nobody needs any more than that. a better average would be one amp a day. i know that is favored by alot of top bb'ers. and its a huge amount, 1750mgs. more than 20 times the highest level of test naturally possible.
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5-6grams of injectable steroids + orals + up to 20 iu gh + slin + other peptides .. isn't that pretty much the same that gh15 is saying ?
I would not consider that a low amount of steroids ..
thought the same thing...even as far as the 'no ones natural' and everyone uses synthol
they are pretty much saying the same things, dont know what the issue here is
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Kinda gay?!?!!?!
well anywhere from kinda to super!
this guy is a newbie to the thunderdome, i was trying to be nice.
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well anywhere from kinda to super!
this guy is a newbie to the thunderdome, i was trying to be nice.
I'm being nice, too.
It's the kinder, gentler Jake. :)
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Nobody ever injected 20+ IUs GH a day, plain bullshit. 8 IUs is in the very high range, guys who exaggerate may go to 10 or 12.
id say 10-12 iu's a day is average amongst pro's.... im not arguing that 10-12 isnt very high, but amongst the pros its just average
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I'm being nice, too.
It's the kinder, gentler Jake. :)
im trying to be more positive, i told ron im gonna do my best to help bring this board back to its former greatness.
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I think we all are getting a pretty good idea what Pros and top amateurs take, but the real mystery to me is why? Why would any rational person take 1000's of milligrams of testosterone a week. Have they ever considered what massive doses of AAS do to cardiac function. Do any of them care that after a few years on juice, they will probably never produce adequate amounts of their own testosterone again. Taking huge doses of Gh is another experiment into the unknown. "Hey, Ronnie Coleman is still Ok, bro." Is he...Most of these guys look terrible with their huge guts, and they waddle when they walk...nothing like the great bodies of the 70's and 80's. What is their big reward for all this physical abuse? A trophy..if they're lucky. A Weider contract..if their 1 in 10 thousand. The money for most doesn't make sense. Even stupider are the guys that never compete..like a certain Vicodin abusing, steroid junkie on this board who proudly exclaims he will "never come off". All so he can be...big. Maybe one of the juice gurus on here can explain the psychology behind this pathology.
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hIGH,,,HOWARD ::) gH15 IS GOD
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Nobody ever injected 20+ IUs GH a day, plain bullshit. 8 IUs is in the very high range, guys who exaggerate may go to 10 or 12.
most of the guys i competed with were using 20+ iu....hell, i was on 18...
bench
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im trying to be more positive, i told ron im gonna do my best to help bring this board back to its former greatness.
Me too!
Was reading a post (before submitting it) in Jan and pretty much decided that's not what I want to put out there. Have toned things down quite a bit since then. I can mess around more on Alpha because everyone there has read my posts for years and know they're mostly jokes.
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Hello, I have read this forum for years now and always found it an amusing source of entertainment. lately, though, i have been frustrated with the idiotic misinformation spread by self proclaimed pseudo gurus such as gh15. I'm here to provide a source of realistic knowledge as to the true hormone usage in the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding.
I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."
What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.
How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.
What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.
Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.
Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.
- BFG
::) ::)
how is what your saying ANY different then what GH15 is saying
nothing you said is in conflict with pretty much anything GH15 has EVER said
....total mg amounts between 3 and 6 grams per week
.......20 units of growth
......many other peptides
.........heavy reliance on insulin
.......widespread synthol use even among the guys who people think dont use it
........so called "top level natty" guys employing prohormones/prosteroids, hgh, and fast clearing esters
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT GH15 has been saying all these years...........so what makes him a charlatan and you a genious.........
your just another jonny-come-lately, gh15 did it first, gh15 did it better
everything you just said, is everything he says
-
most of the guys i competed with were using 20+ iu....hell, i was on 18...
bench
What for?
-
Me too!
Was reading a post (before submitting it) in Jan and pretty much decided that's not what I want to put out there. Have toned things down quite a bit since then. I can mess around more on Alpha because everyone there has read my posts for years and know they're mostly jokes.
yep i had to same type of experience, i was reading some of my old post and just realized i was too negative and didnt have a good thing to say about bodybuilding.
things have changed around here, its not the same as it used to be.....
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my only problem with BMG is the 2-3 grams test and calling gh15 a wannabe who doesn't know anything
I can deal with 2-3 grams ...but to say gh15 is a moron is clear that he might be a dealer who got the shaft or a hater trying to discredit him
that's all
tbombz : stick to anal deep tissue and brewing vicodin ..
-
What for?
many guys use 20 plus iu's of gh pre contest bro! thats not a huge amount.
you're a normal and rational thinking person therefore u wouldnt use those amounts.
but we're talkin about bodybuilders..........th ey are neither rational nor normal, therefore normal rules dont apply to them.
-
A trophy..if they're lucky. A Weider contract..if their 1 in 10 thousand. The money for most doesn't make sense. Even stupider are the guys that never compete..like a certain Vicodin abusing, steroid junkie on this board who proudly exclaims he will "never come off". All so he can be...big. Maybe one of the juice gurus on here can explain the psychology behind this pathology.
-
I could nitpick on some things as far as what GH15 says, but no need to as he pretty much correct on everything that he says. As far as GH goes people tend to take pretty much what they can afford. 15 to 20 iu's is bout right as far as top level guys.
-
I could nitpick on some things as far as what GH15 says, but no need to as he pretty much correct on everything that he says. As far as GH goes people tend to take pretty much what they can afford. 15 to 20 iu's is bout right as far as top level guys.
This guy posted on a german board very open about his preps and cycles, and said pre-contest he took 3-4 IUs GH most of the time.
(http://www.scientific-muscle.de/images/news/bo1.jpg)
I'd love to see a pic of "benchmstr" who took 18 IUs.
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affeman..there is a rumor that bb lie and downplay what they take
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affeman..there is a rumor that bb lie and downplay what they take
The Test and Tren doses he named were pretty high, so I don't know why he should lie exactly about the Gh? ???
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The Test and Tren doses he named were pretty high, so I don't know why he should lie exactly about the Gh? ???
maybe he couldn't afford gh :)
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This guy posted on a german board very open about his preps and cycles, and said pre-contest he took 3-4 IUs GH most of the time.
(http://www.scientific-muscle.de/images/news/bo1.jpg)
I'd love to see a pic of "benchmstr" who took 18 IUs.
Damn, crazy delts :o
-
This guy posted on a german board very open about his preps and cycles, and said pre-contest he took 3-4 IUs GH most of the time.
(http://www.scientific-muscle.de/images/news/bo1.jpg)
I'd love to see a pic of "benchmstr" who took 18 IUs.
more details of boris's cycles please
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more details of boris's cycles please
I can't remember, that was years ago. But what I remember regarding GH he said it's more a question of faith. There are Top Pros who only take 3-4 IUs and others who think they need 8 IUs or even more. But he hardly knew anyone who got better effects going higher than 4 IUs. Generally he said GH was way overrated.
-
The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week
HOLY SHIT
thats fucking insane....and i thought 3 amps of sustanon every 10 days...thats 750mg/ml over 10 days for 4 months ws a massive dose and i got my ass handed to me on getbig for saying so :-\
-
thanks affe, pity you couldn't remember. boris has a great physique. i learned about him from the hst board.
milos said 2 mr olympia contenders he trained only took 750mg-1g test 600-800deca and some dbol. with some not touching insulin or gh.
was he lying ?
lee priest got his physique with 200mg deca and some winny tabs each week - was he lying ;D
-
thanks affe, pity you couldn't remember. boris has a great physique. i learned about him from the hst board.
milos said 2 mr olympia contenders he trained only took 750mg-1g test 600-800deca and some dbol. with some not touching insulin or gh.
was he lying ?
lee priest got his physique with 200mg deca and some winny tabs each week - was he lying ;D
:D
-
Why not genetically turn off the myostatin production? Nobody has access to such therapies yet?
-
lee priest got his physique with 200mg deca and some winny tabs each week - was he lying ;D
DOOD....you r grossly mistaken...
Lee Priest bought 1 pill of anadrol when he ws 17 and he licks that pill 2ice every full moon...if the full moon falls on a saturday...
genetics muthafucker >:(
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DOOD....you r grossly mistaken...
Lee Priest bought 1 pill of anadrol when he ws 17 and he licks that pill 2ice every full moon...if the full moon falls on a saturday...
genetics muthafucker >:(
hahahaha damn ! i knew i was doing something wrong.
-
hahahaha damn ! i knew i was doing something wrong.
95% of these girls(pro male bbers) dont have decent faces or height or intelligence to have any sorta naturally occurring selfesteem...i mean even the dork geek thats super smart thinks he's is hot shit and is validated :)
its laughable that they try and convince us that its genetics....pfft... ::)
and they try n convince us cause they truly believe we r as fackin stupid as they r....which is a connundrum cause i dont thin k they realize how fackin stupid they r in thinking that we will believe them :-\
BUT WHEN YOUR WHOLE LIFE IS BASED ON BELIEVING A LIE(20 odd yrs of it)..YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE...OTHERWISE YOUR HOUSE OF CARDS COMES TUMBLING DOWN...PREMIER EXAMPLE ON THIS BOARD...CHICK :-\
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I can't remember, that was years ago. But what I remember regarding GH he said it's more a question of faith. There are Top Pros who only take 3-4 IUs and others who think they need 8 IUs or even more. But he hardly knew anyone who got better effects going higher than 4 IUs. Generally he said GH was way overrated.
i think theres some truth in that but it doesnt mean nobody is using large amounts. ive heaqrd from several different legit sources ronnie was using 36iu's of human grade, american made GH everyday. i know one pro who is using 12 iu per day, aand thats what he admits to. so probably more like 20. most of these guys are dealers and just have the shit laying around waiting to be shit. why not inject 20+ iu's per day ? :D ;D
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yep i had to same type of experience, i was reading some of my old post and just realized i was too negative and didnt have a good thing to say about bodybuilding.
things have changed around here, its not the same as it used to be.....
The only place this change has not and will not occur is cases of extreme cock-gobbling, i.e. Nasserites and fans of Slash's guitar playing.
No one's perfect, I guess. :)
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the facts on gh are this:
1) it's useless for growing muscle
2) it helps burn bodyfat/spares muscle during calorie deficit due to said fat burning properties.
3) if you take too much it turns you into a mutant, with bones growing wild etc not to mention the possible gh gut that still has been neither proven nor disproven.
Now eca, and clen do the same thing as no:2. Also slow calorie reduction also works well i hear :D
so why would anyone spend money on such a useless, and potentially dangerous item is a mystery ???
-
Hello, I have read this forum for years now and always found it an amusing source of entertainment. lately, though, i have been frustrated with the idiotic misinformation spread by self proclaimed pseudo gurus such as gh15. I'm here to provide a source of realistic knowledge as to the true hormone usage in the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding.
I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."
What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.
How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.
What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.
Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.
Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.
- BFG
Thanks for the post. Could you also break down the Ancient Astronaut theory for us?
-
::) ::)
how is what your saying ANY different then what GH15 is saying
nothing you said is in conflict with pretty much anything GH15 has EVER said
....total mg amounts between 3 and 6 grams per week
.......20 units of growth
......many other peptides
.........heavy reliance on insulin
.......widespread synthol use even among the guys who people think dont use it
........so called "top level natty" guys employing prohormones/prosteroids, hgh, and fast clearing esters
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT GH15 has been saying all these years...........so what makes him a charlatan and you a genious.........
your just another jonny-come-lately, gh15 did it first, gh15 did it better
everything you just said, is everything he says
EXACTLY Dave!
QFT
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the facts on gh are this:
1) it's useless for growing muscle
2) it helps burn bodyfat/spares muscle during calorie deficit due to said fat burning properties.
3) if you take too much it turns you into a mutant, with bones growing wild etc not to mention the possible gh gut that still has been neither proven nor disproven.
Now eca, and clen do the same thing as no:2. Also slow calorie reduction also works well i hear :D
so why would anyone spend money on such a useless, and potentially dangerous item is a mystery ???
comparing gh and eca clen is apple and oranges
with gh you can lose alot of BF without being calories restricted and completely keep all your mass, in other words lose fat while growing muscle
with eca, clen you have to be in caloric deficit and will most definitely lose some mass and flatten out like a pancake.
-
the facts on gh are this:
1) it's useless for growing muscle
2) it helps burn bodyfat/spares muscle during calorie deficit due to said fat burning properties.
3) if you take too much it turns you into a mutant, with bones growing wild etc not to mention the possible gh gut that still has been neither proven nor disproven.
Now eca, and clen do the same thing as no:2. Also slow calorie reduction also works well i hear :D
so why would anyone spend money on such a useless, and potentially dangerous item is a mystery ???
wow.....seriously, wow!!!
keep reading those multi page muscletech ads bro ;)
bench
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i think theres some truth in that but it doesnt mean nobody is using large amounts. ive heaqrd from several different legit sources ronnie was using 36iu's of human grade, american made GH everyday.
36 IUs of GH per day? lol
Dude, that guy wouldn't have a Hummer and a Bentley in his garage then, he would be dead broke. And his nose would be as long as Pinocchios. ::)
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so why would anyone spend money on such a useless, and potentially dangerous item is a mystery ???
why would a guy who does not even train and probably never took any sort of ped himself post something like this ?
-
why would a guy who does not even train and probably never took any sort of ped himself post something like this ?
How much IUs do you take, David?
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36 IUs of GH per day? lol
Dude, that guy wouldn't have a Hummer and a Bentley in his garage then, he would be dead broke. And his nose would be as long as Pinocchios. ::)
Back in the mid 90's I knew a guy from the UK, knew him pretty well. He was telling me he knew the guy that Dorian got his GH from. He called the GH pens and said they contained 36 iu's. He said he would use half in the morning and half at night. Anyway, that was the story so who knows.
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comparing gh and eca clen is apple and oranges
with gh you can lose alot of BF without being calories restricted and completely keep all your mass, in other words lose fat while growing muscle
with eca, clen you have to be in caloric deficit and will most definitely lose some mass and flatten out like a pancake.
well in every study done to date gh is useless for muscle growth - and much much more expensive than test, deca, drol etc etc
if the gh gut is due to gh, along with acromelogy (sp) - i'd rather just diet harder, and take more gear. :-\
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well in every study done to date gh is useless for muscle growth - and much much more expensive than test, deca, drol etc etc
if the gh gut is due to gh, along with acromelogy (sp) - i'd rather just diet harder, and take more gear. :-\
How many double blinded studies compare a placebo group, a steroid group and a GH plus steroid group with dosages the average pro uses? I'm guessing the number is somewhere pretty close to zero.
::)
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How many double blinded studies compare a placebo group, a steroid group and a GH plus steroid group with dosages the average pro uses? I'm guessing the number is somewhere pretty close to zero.
::)
::) there has never been any studies done ever on pro level amounts of steroids - as i'm sure you know already you mental midget.
there has been a test +gh study though. again showing it does nothing that is worth the cost/risks
When gh has been studied at normal dosages it does fuck all for muscle growth. when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all for muscle growth, but does make bones grow, and costs much money.
some steroids burn fat, grow muscle and are a whole lot cheaper than gh. there is also no abnormal bone growth from gear.
make your choice.
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::) there has never been any studies done ever on pro level amounts of steroids - as i'm sure you know already you mental midget.
there has been a test +gh study though. again showing it does nothing that is worth the cost/risks
When gh has been studied at normal dosages it does fuck all for muscle growth. when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all for muscle growth, but does make bones grow, and costs much money.
some steroids burn fat, grow muscle and are a whole lot cheaper than gh. there is also no abnormal bone growth from gear.
make your choice.
you are totally mis-informed....and no steroid burns fat..
bench
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you are totally mis-informed....and no steroid burns fat..
bench
Steroids shift your whole body composition towards lean mass.
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you are totally mis-informed....and no steroid burns fat..
bench
with post alone i can tell you are a fool.
do some reading before you try to question me again.
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with post alone i can tell you are a fool.
do some reading before you try to question me again.
Post your pic Andy, show him what the juice has done for you!!! :D
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
(http://www.angelzfunnyz.com/Portals/0/Gallery/Album/3/strongpanda.jpg)
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there has been a test +gh study though. again showing it does nothing that is worth the cost/risks
Wow, "a" study. Epic.
::)
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Nobody ever injected 20+ IUs GH a day, plain bullshit. 8 IUs is in the very high range, guys who exaggerate may go to 10 or 12.
Marcus Ruhl ?
-
with post alone i can tell you are a fool.
do some reading before you try to question me again.
everything you have stated is incorrect...
bench
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chick needs to clear this up
nassers book will clear it up even more
until then let's just say, "drugs do not create champions"
(http://www.sicktracks.com/images/Palumbo_2.jpg)
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
(http://www.angelzfunnyz.com/Portals/0/Gallery/Album/3/strongpanda.jpg)
Epic gh gut.
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everything you have stated is incorrect...
bench
hahahahahahahahaha i'd post some studies to shut you up, but you would need a brain to understand them.
Guys here who really know about gear will back me up on this. i'm sure they will just be lying though ::)
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Epic gh gut.
thats what i'm saying, it was the damn gh >:( ;D
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lol 6 grams a week is a little :o
Just the finishing touch right Bob and Howard ::)
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lol 6 grams a week is a little :o
Just the finishing touch right Bob and Howard ::)
If 6 grams is the finishing touch, imagine what it took to get there. :o
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::) there has never been any studies done ever on pro level amounts of steroids - as i'm sure you know already you mental midget.
there has been a test +gh study though. again showing it does nothing that is worth the cost/risks
When gh has been studied at normal dosages it does fuck all for muscle growth. when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all for muscle growth, but does make bones grow, and costs much money.
some steroids burn fat, grow muscle and are a whole lot cheaper than gh. there is also no abnormal bone growth from gear.
make your choice.
For the last time, hGH causes muscle growth/hypertrophy in smooth and striated muscle. This is why so many users get hypertrophic cardiopmyopathy. Guys/girls get a baseline (non 12 lead) ECG they forget to mention hGH use so doctors assume the left axis deviation is just a sign of a well conditioned heart until there's regurgitation or other symptoms like sudden cardiac death.
hGH is serious stuff but no one wants to admit the guts are caused by use because there's no way to bullshit yourself into believing the growth is limited to one organ. :)
Like I wrote; some effects are direct while others are indirect. Other drugs, like estrogen, affect growth hormone receptor expression.
If someone wants to risk death it's their own business. There's just no need for bullshit about about risks.
Please stick to comics because posting some studies would look a little too much like TA. Also, being able to read/post a study doesn't mean you understand the basic physiology behind what they're doing or how it relates to endocrine function.
No one's doing human studies because of the oath to do no harm. :)
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For the last time, hGH causes muscle growth/hypertrophy in smooth and striated muscle. This is why so many users get hypertrophic cardiopmyopathy. Guys/girls get a baseline (non 12 lead) ECG they forget to mention hGH use so doctors assume the left axis deviation is just a sign of a well conditioned heart until there's regurgitation or other symptoms like sudden cardiac death.
hGH is serious stuff but no one wants to admit the guts are caused by use because there's no way to bullshit yourself into believing the growth is limited to one organ. :)
Like I wrote; some effects are direct while others are indirect. Other drugs, like estrogen, affect growth hormone receptor expression.
If someone wants to risk death it's their own business. There's just no need for bullshit about about risks.
Please stick to comics because posting some studies would look a little too much like TA. Also, being able to read/post a study doesn't mean you understand the basic physiology behind what they're doing or how it relates to endocrine function.
No one's doing human studies because of the oath to do no harm. :)
Panda talks alot but hes about 90% wrong from what Ive seen, he talks out of his ass.
He does have his moments tho, like with comics.
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there has never been any studies done ever on pro level amounts of steroids
When gh has been studied at normal dosages it does fuck all for muscle growth. when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all for muscle growth,
Does this make any sense to you? No one has ever studied what GH (or steroids) do at very high levels except the pros. They actually do it, and they all swear by it. They are without a doubt the most muscular people on the planet. So how it is that you know that "when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all...." when they all swear by it?
-
Panda talks alot but hes about 90% wrong from what Ive seen, he talks out of his ass.
He does have his moments tho, like with comics.
Considering hes a 12 year old parapalegic, that's hardly suprising. Getbig is a gateway for his rich imagination of muscle furs and strong men.
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For the last time, hGH causes muscle growth/hypertrophy in smooth and striated muscle. This is why so many users get hypertrophic cardiopmyopathy. Guys/girls get a baseline (non 12 lead) ECG they forget to mention hGH use so doctors assume the left axis deviation is just a sign of a well conditioned heart until there's regurgitation or other symptoms like sudden cardiac death.
hGH is serious stuff but no one wants to admit the guts are caused by use because there's no way to bullshit yourself into believing the growth is limited to one organ. :)
Like I wrote; some effects are direct while others are indirect. Other drugs, like estrogen, affect growth hormone receptor expression.
If someone wants to risk death it's their own business. There's just no need for bullshit about about risks.
Please stick to comics because posting some studies would look a little too much like TA. Also, being able to read/post a study doesn't mean you understand the basic physiology behind what they're doing or how it relates to endocrine function.
No one's doing human studies because of the oath to do no harm. :)
sorry but i don't take the word of some internet nobody, can you post a study that proves your claims about gh ?
there have been plenty of studies on humans taking gh despite 'the oath', hell the old gh was taken from dead bodies ::)
a doctor would know this ::)
i'll stick to the comics - but i think you should stick to hanging off my every post, like you have been doing, its clear you need the education.
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sorry but i don't take the word of some internet nobody, can you post a study that proves your claims about gh ?
there have been plenty of studies on humans taking gh despite 'the oath', hell the old gh was taken from dead bodies ::)
a doctor would know this ::)
i'll stick to the comics - but i think you should stick to hanging off my every post, like you have been doing, its clear you need the education.
I am no end all expert on HGh or steroids , BUT I do know "bro science" when I hear it, so you are right to be a skeptic of some unknown internet claims nobody can verfify
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to all you intellectual half wits who i own every day on here by posting study after study to try to educate your simpleton minds, read this and shut the fuck up:
The Effects of Growth Hormone on Body Composition and Physical Performance in Recreational Athletes
A Randomized Trial
Udo Meinhardt, MD; Anne E. Nelson, PhD; Jennifer L. Hansen, RN; Vita Birzniece, MD, PhD; David Clifford, PhD; Kin-Chuen Leung, PhD; Kenneth Graham, BSc; and Ken K.Y. Ho, MD
+ Author Affiliations
From Garvan Institute of Medical Research and St Vincent's Hospital, Darlinghurst; St. Vincent's Clinical School, University of New South Wales; CSIRO Mathematical and Information Sciences, North Ryde; and New South Wales Institute of Sports, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
Abstract
Background: Growth hormone is widely abused by athletes, frequently with androgenic steroids. Its effects on performance are unclear.
Objective: To determine the effect of growth hormone alone or with testosterone on body composition and measures of performance.
Design: Randomized, placebo-controlled, blinded study of 8 weeks of treatment followed by a 6-week washout period. Randomization was computer-generated with concealed allocation. (Australian–New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry registration number: ACTRN012605000508673)
Setting: Clinical research facility in Sydney, Australia.
Participants: 96 recreationally trained athletes (63 men and 33 women) with a mean age of 27.9 years (SD, 5.7).
Intervention: Men were randomly assigned to receive placebo, growth hormone (2 mg/d subcutaneously), testosterone (250 mg/wk intramuscularly), or combined treatments. Women were randomly assigned to receive either placebo or growth hormone (2 mg/d).
Measurements: Body composition variables (fat mass, lean body mass, extracellular water mass, and body cell mass) and physical performance variables (endurance [maximum oxygen consumption], strength [dead lift], power [jump height], and sprint capacity [Wingate value]).
Results: Body cell mass was correlated with all measures of performance at baseline. Growth hormone significantly reduced fat mass, increased lean body mass through an increase in extracellular water, and increased body cell mass in men when coadministered with testosterone . Growth hormone significantly increased sprint capacity, by 0.71 kJ (95% CI, 0.1 to 1.3 kJ; relative increase, 3.9% [CI, 0.0% to 7.7%]) in men and women combined and by 1.7 kJ (CI, 0.5 to 3.0 kJ; relative increase, 8.3% [CI, 3.0% to 13.6%]) when coadministered with testosterone to men; other performance measures did not significantly change. The increase in sprint capacity was not maintained 6 weeks after discontinuation of the drug.
Limitations: Growth hormone dosage may have been lower than that used covertly by competitive athletes. The athletic significance of the observed improvements in sprint capacity is unclear, and the study was too small to draw conclusions about safety.
Conclusion: Growth hormone supplementation influenced body composition and increased sprint capacity when administered alone and in combination with testosterone.
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Claims for the anabolic effects of growth hormone: a case of the Emperor’s new clothes?
M J Rennie
Abstract
This review examines the evidence that growth hormone has metabolic effects in adult human beings. The conclusion is that growth hormone does indeed have powerful effects on fat and carbohydrate metabolism, and in particular promotes the metabolic use of adipose tissue triacylglycerol. However, there is no proof that net protein retention is promoted in adults, except possibly of connective tissue. The overexaggeration of the effects of growth hormone in muscle building is effectively promoting its abuse and thereby encouraging athletes and elderly men to expose themselves to increased risk of disease for little benefit.
::)
shall i keep going ? ok
Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth in young men
K. E. Yarasheski, J. A. Campbell, K. Smith, M. J. Rennie, J. O. Holloszy and D. M. Bier
Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110.
The purpose of this study was to determine whether growth hormone (GH) administration enhances the muscle anabolism associated with heavy-resistance exercise. Sixteen men (21-34 yr) were assigned randomly to a resistance training plus GH group (n = 7) or to a resistance training plus placebo group (n = 9). For 12 wk, both groups trained all major muscle groups in an identical fashion while receiving 40 micrograms recombinant human GH.kg-1.day-1 or placebo. Fat-free mass (FFM) and total body water increased (P less than 0.05) in both groups but more (P less than 0.01) in the GH recipients. Whole body protein synthesis rate increased more (P less than 0.03), and whole body protein balance was greater (P = 0.01) in the GH-treated group, but quadriceps muscle protein synthesis rate, torso and limb circumferences, and muscle strength did not increase more in the GH-treated group. In the young men studied, resistance exercise with or without GH resulted in similar increments in muscle size, strength, and muscle protein synthesis, indicating that 1) the larger increase in FFM with GH treatment was probably due to an increase in lean tissue other than skeletal muscle and 2) resistance training supplemented with GH did not further enhance muscle anabolism and function.
or more :
Short-term growth hormone treatment does not increase muscle protein synthesis in experienced weight lifters
K. E. Yarasheski, J. J. Zachweija, T. J. Angelopoulos and D. M. Bier
Metabolism Division, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110.
The purpose of this study was to determine whether recombinant human growth hormone (GH) administration enhances muscle protein anabolism in experienced weight lifters. The fractional rate of skeletal muscle protein synthesis and the whole body rate of protein breakdown were determined during a constant intravenous infusion of [13C]leucine in 7 young (23 +/- 2 yr; 86.2 +/- 4.6 kg) healthy experienced male weight lifters before and at the end of 14 days of subcutaneous GH administration (40 microgram.kg-1 x day-1). GH administration increased fasting serum insulin-like growth factor-I (from 224 +/- 20 to 589 +/- 80 ng/ml, P = 0.002) but did not increase the fractional rate of muscle protein synthesis (from 0.034 +/- 0.004 to 0.034 +/- 0.002%/h) or reduce the rate of whole body protein breakdown (from 103 +/- 4 to 108 +/- 5 mumol.kg-1 x h-1). These findings suggest that short-term GH treatment does not increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis or reduce the rate of whole body protein breakdown, metabolic alterations that would promote muscle protein anabolism in experienced weight lifters attempting to further increase muscle mass.
never, ever question my statements unless you actually have a brain and a real idea of what you are talking about.
-
what did i say about side effects ::)
Systematic review: the safety and efficacy of growth hormone in the healthy elderly.
Liu H, Bravata DM, Olkin I, Nayak S, Roberts B, Garber AM, Hoffman AR.
Stanford University, Stanford, California 94305-6019, USA. hauliu@stanford.edu
Comment in:
Nat Clin Pract Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul;3(7):508-9.
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Human growth hormone (GH) is widely used as an antiaging therapy, although its use for this purpose has not been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and its distribution as an antiaging agent is illegal in the United States. PURPOSE: To evaluate the safety and efficacy of GH therapy in the healthy elderly. DATA SOURCES: The authors searched MEDLINE and EMBASE databases for English-language studies published through 21 November 2005 by using such terms as growth hormone and aging. STUDY SELECTION: The authors included randomized, controlled trials that compared GH therapy with no GH therapy or GH and lifestyle interventions (exercise with or without diet) with lifestyle interventions alone. Included trials provided GH for 2 weeks or more to community-dwelling participants with a mean age of 50 years or more and a body mass index of 35 kg/m2 or less. The authors excluded studies that evaluated GH as treatment for a specific illness. DATA EXTRACTION: Two authors independently reviewed articles and abstracted data. DATA SYNTHESIS: 31 articles describing 18 unique study populations met the inclusion criteria. A total of 220 participants who received GH (107 person-years) completed their respective studies. Study participants were elderly (mean age, 69 years [SD, 6]) and overweight (mean body mass index, 28 kg/m2 [SD, 2]). Initial daily GH dose (mean, 14 microg per kg of body weight [SD, 7]) and treatment duration (mean, 27 weeks [SD, 16]) varied. In participants treated with GH compared with those not treated with GH, overall fat mass decreased (change in fat mass, -2.1 kg [95% CI, -2.8 to -1.35] and overall lean body mass increased (change in lean body mass, 2.1 kg [CI, 1.3 to 2.9]) (P < 0.001), and their weight did not change significantly (change in weight, 0.1 kg [CI, -0.7 to 0.8]; P = 0.87). Total cholesterol levels decreased (change in cholesterol, -0.29 mmol/L [-11.21 mg/dL]; P = 0.006), although not significantly after adjustment for body composition changes. Other outcomes, including bone density and other serum lipid levels, did not change. Persons treated with GH were significantly more likely to experience soft tissue edema, arthralgias, carpal tunnel syndrome, and gynecomastia and were somewhat more likely to experience the onset of diabetes mellitus and impaired fasting glucose. LIMITATIONS: Some important outcomes were infrequently or heterogeneously measured and could not be synthesized. Most included studies had small sample sizes. CONCLUSIONS: The literature published on randomized, controlled trials evaluating GH therapy in the healthy elderly is limited but suggests that it is associated with small changes in body composition and increased rates of adverse events. On the basis of this evidence, GH cannot be recommended as an antiaging therapy.
:o whats that ? you have been owned again by a fat guy who reads comics :o
wow
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Hey panda, just give up hehehe. I agree with you 100% and understand. The reality is this is a BB forum called get big . It is fun but little more than bro science in most cases. For example, an actual pro like Bob Chick makes a reasonable, basic answer to a question and the numbnuts give him crack. BUT, have some unknown numbnut come on a claim to post the "REAL TRUTH" and they lap it up.
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BFG is Stokely Palmer
there's no mystery here
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Hey panda, just give up hehehe. I agree with you 100% and understand. The reality is this is a BB forum called get big . It is fun but little more than bro science in most cases. For example, an actual pro like Bob Chick makes a reasonable, basic answer to a question and the numbnuts give him crack. BUT, have some unknown numbnut come on a claim to post the "REAL TRUTH" and they lap it up.
its true, and i expect it from the faceless gimmicks who stalk me, and argue with my every post for the sake of it, even though i can back them up.
however you would have thought gimmick claiming to be a doctor ::) would know there are literally hundreds of studies done on gh in humans. :o
perhaps his practicing name is Dr Harold Shipman, or maybe he is a witch doctor ::)
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36 IUs of GH per day? lol
Dude, that guy wouldn't have a Hummer and a Bentley in his garage then, he would be dead broke. And his nose would be as long as Pinocchios. ::)
first of all, mr.olympia does not have to pay for his drugs. you should know better than that. second of all, you must not be aware of the price of GH. american pharmacy made GH is damned expensive for 99% of people, so only a lucky few would be able to run massive doses like ronnie, but generic chinese GH, and even certain human grade chinese and european brands can be had for very cheap, a couple dollars per iu. and when these guys are dealing it, that aint shit.
the facts on gh are this:
1) it's useless for growing muscle
2) it helps burn bodyfat/spares muscle during calorie deficit due to said fat burning properties.
3) if you take too much it turns you into a mutant, with bones growing wild etc not to mention the possible gh gut that still has been neither proven nor disproven.
Now eca, and clen do the same thing as no:2. Also slow calorie reduction also works well i hear :D
so why would anyone spend money on such a useless, and potentially dangerous item is a mystery ???
first hand experience with gh is that it may not cause large muscle growth, but saying its useless for muscle growth is a bit off base. GH definitely gives the muscles a fuller, rounder appearance, and whole body thickness as well.
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its true, and i expect it from the faceless gimmicks who stalk me, and argue with my every post for the sake of it, even though i can back them up.
however you would have thought gimmick claiming to be a doctor ::) would know there are literally hundreds of studies done on gh in humans. :o
perhaps his practicing name is Dr Harold Shipman, or maybe he is a witch doctor ::)
LOL, look none of these internet clowns are doctors or scientists, etc.
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first of all, mr.olympia does not have to pay for his drugs. you should know better than that. second of all, you must not be aware of the price of GH. american pharmacy made GH is damned expensive for 99% of people, so only a lucky few would be able to run massive doses like ronnie, but generic chinese GH, and even certain human grade chinese and european brands can be had for very cheap, a couple dollars per iu. and when these guys are dealing it, that aint shit.
first hand experience with gh is that it may not cause large muscle growth, but saying its useless for muscle growth is a bit off base. GH definitely gives the muscles a fuller, rounder appearance, and whole body thickness as well.
hahahaha did you even read my posts?
increased intercellular water + chance of major sides + astronomical cost = no thanks for me.
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LOL, look none of these internet clowns are doctors or scientists, etc.
Really?!
I'm gonna try again in simpler language....... What makes babies grow? Think really hard before answering because saying growth hormone doesn't increase organ size means you literally think grown adults are using the same sized organs as newborns. :) Yes, it boils down to something that freaking simple.
I read pretty well and can tell you FP's studies are not studying the effects I'm discussing. One even admitted not using dosages people on the street are using.
FP/Adonis and a few others here others are perfect examples of what's wrong with the internet. People without a foundation can't make sense of some of the information because they lack the necessary foundation. Any tard can read conclusions, LOL! It'd be like reading the last paragraph of War and Peace and thinking oneself an expert on Tolstoy, FFS!
FP, despite being an unabashed nut-rider, is a good guy but just plain wrong. Someone can search the internet and find a study to say anything they want. :)
Waste of time exchanges over simple shit like this make it pretty clear why Nico left, LOL!
-
Hello, I have read this forum for years now and always found it an amusing source of entertainment. lately, though, i have been frustrated with the idiotic misinformation spread by self proclaimed pseudo gurus such as gh15. I'm here to provide a source of realistic knowledge as to the true hormone usage in the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding.
I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."
What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.
How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.
What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.
Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.
Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.
- BFG
pretty accurate.
-
pretty accurate.
You do realize his explanation for gH gut is taken from an MD article by Palumbo that's 4+ years old, right?
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If 6 grams is the finishing touch, imagine what it took to get there. :o
Can you imagine telling someone I inject my self 40+ times a week. Where the hell do you find that many places for 20 weeks straight?
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Can you imagine telling someone I inject my self 40+ times a week. Where the hell do you find that many places for 20 weeks straight?
Must be why so many bbers are accustomed to being poked in the ass.
-
Must be why so many bbers are accustomed to being poked in the ass.
Drugs ain't cheap. :)
-
ONCE AGAIN.............
EVERYTHING THIS DOUCHE IS SAYING IS EXACTLY WHAT GH15 HAS SAID
he isnt revealing anything that nobody already knows, as a matter of fact, everything he is saying is almost common knowledge
wow...........pros use lots of insulin, and 5 or 6 grams of gear a week, with more oral close to contest.......WOW ::) ::)
and pros use 10-20 ius of hgh and even the people you dont think use synthol are using it ::) ::)
everything GH15 has said, this dick is acting like he just rewrote message board history
-
Really?!
I'm gonna try again in simpler language....... What makes babies grow? Think really hard before answering because saying growth hormone doesn't increase organ size means you literally think grown adults are using the same sized organs as newborns. :) !
Where the Hell did you get this from? Excessive GH production whether thru Acromegaly or injecting does NOT increase organ size. Organ growth is not even a side effect of Acromegaly.
-
hahahaha did you even read my posts?
Did you even read mine?
-
BFG is Stokely Palmer
there's no mystery here
sounds like you want his cock....
-
god damn try funding that habit and doing all those gruelsome workouts and calori deficit/surpluses + all those injections and even synthool injections ED jesus christ I need a sleep just thinking about what thsi fella posted :-X
-
Hello, I have read this forum for years now and always found it an amusing source of entertainment. lately, though, i have been frustrated with the idiotic misinformation spread by self proclaimed pseudo gurus such as gh15. I'm here to provide a source of realistic knowledge as to the true hormone usage in the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding.
I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."
What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.
How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.
What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.
Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.
Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.
- BFG
youre 6 years too late,,but yes what you wrote is 75% accurate,,
gh15 approved
-
sounds like you want his cock....
;D
-
Where the Hell did you get this from? Excessive GH production whether thru Acromegaly or injecting does NOT increase organ size. Organ growth is not even a side effect of Acromegaly.
OMFG!!
Seriously, please tell me your "expert" stars are not related to drug use.
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/39375
"Dysregulated growth hormone (GH) hypersecretion is usually caused by a GH-secreting pituitary adenoma and leads to acromegaly — a disorder of disproportionate skeletal, tissue, and organ growth. High GH and IGF1 levels lead to comorbidities including arthritis, facial changes, prognathism, and glucose intolerance. If the condition is untreated, enhanced mortality due to cardiovascular, cerebrovascular, and pulmonary dysfunction is associated with a 30% decrease in life span. This Review discusses acromegaly pathogenesis and management options. The latter include surgery, radiation, and use of novel medications. Somatostatin receptor (SSTR) ligands inhibit GH release, control tumor growth, and attenuate peripheral GH action, while GH receptor antagonists block GH action and effectively lower IGF1 levels. Novel peptides, including SSTR ligands, exhibiting polyreceptor subtype affinities and chimeric dopaminergic-somatostatinergic properties are currently in clinical trials. Effective control of GH and IGF1 hypersecretion and ablation or stabilization of the pituitary tumor mass lead to improved comorbidities and lowering of mortality rates for this hormonal disorder."
I'm sure you will have something else to say but facts are facts. Acromegaly isn't simply being tall with big bones from hGH and neither is giantism. What did Andre the Giant die from?
-
Really?!
I'm gonna try again in simpler language....... What makes babies grow? Think really hard before answering because saying growth hormone doesn't increase organ size means you literally think grown adults are using the same sized organs as newborns. :) Yes, it boils down to something that freaking simple.
I read pretty well and can tell you FP's studies are not studying the effects I'm discussing. One even admitted not using dosages people on the street are using.
FP/Adonis and a few others here others are perfect examples of what's wrong with the internet. People without a foundation can't make sense of some of the information because they lack the necessary foundation. Any tard can read conclusions, LOL! It'd be like reading the last paragraph of War and Peace and thinking oneself an expert on Tolstoy, FFS!
FP, despite being an unabashed nut-rider, is a good guy but just plain wrong. Someone can search the internet and find a study to say anything they want. :)
Waste of time exchanges over simple shit like this make it pretty clear why Nico left, LOL!
i'm surprised you gad the balls to post here again after i handed them to you in 3 simple posts.
run along doc ::)
you are wasting my time.
-
Claims for the anabolic effects of growth hormone: a case of the Emperor’s new clothes?
M J Rennie
Abstract
This review examines the evidence that growth hormone has metabolic effects in adult human beings. The conclusion is that growth hormone does indeed have powerful effects on fat and carbohydrate metabolism, and in particular promotes the metabolic use of adipose tissue triacylglycerol. However, there is no proof that net protein retention is promoted in adults, except possibly of connective tissue. The overexaggeration of the effects of growth hormone in muscle building is effectively promoting its abuse and thereby encouraging athletes and elderly men to expose themselves to increased risk of disease for little benefit.
::)
shall i keep going ? ok
Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth in young men
K. E. Yarasheski, J. A. Campbell, K. Smith, M. J. Rennie, J. O. Holloszy and D. M. Bier
Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110.
The purpose of this study was to determine whether growth hormone (GH) administration enhances the muscle anabolism associated with heavy-resistance exercise. Sixteen men (21-34 yr) were assigned randomly to a resistance training plus GH group (n = 7) or to a resistance training plus placebo group (n = 9). For 12 wk, both groups trained all major muscle groups in an identical fashion while receiving 40 micrograms recombinant human GH.kg-1.day-1 or placebo. Fat-free mass (FFM) and total body water increased (P less than 0.05) in both groups but more (P less than 0.01) in the GH recipients. Whole body protein synthesis rate increased more (P less than 0.03), and whole body protein balance was greater (P = 0.01) in the GH-treated group, but quadriceps muscle protein synthesis rate, torso and limb circumferences, and muscle strength did not increase more in the GH-treated group. In the young men studied, resistance exercise with or without GH resulted in similar increments in muscle size, strength, and muscle protein synthesis, indicating that 1) the larger increase in FFM with GH treatment was probably due to an increase in lean tissue other than skeletal muscle and 2) resistance training supplemented with GH did not further enhance muscle anabolism and function.
or more :
Short-term growth hormone treatment does not increase muscle protein synthesis in experienced weight lifters
K. E. Yarasheski, J. J. Zachweija, T. J. Angelopoulos and D. M. Bier
Metabolism Division, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110.
The purpose of this study was to determine whether recombinant human growth hormone (GH) administration enhances muscle protein anabolism in experienced weight lifters. The fractional rate of skeletal muscle protein synthesis and the whole body rate of protein breakdown were determined during a constant intravenous infusion of [13C]leucine in 7 young (23 +/- 2 yr; 86.2 +/- 4.6 kg) healthy experienced male weight lifters before and at the end of 14 days of subcutaneous GH administration (40 microgram.kg-1 x day-1). GH administration increased fasting serum insulin-like growth factor-I (from 224 +/- 20 to 589 +/- 80 ng/ml, P = 0.002) but did not increase the fractional rate of muscle protein synthesis (from 0.034 +/- 0.004 to 0.034 +/- 0.002%/h) or reduce the rate of whole body protein breakdown (from 103 +/- 4 to 108 +/- 5 mumol.kg-1 x h-1). These findings suggest that short-term GH treatment does not increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis or reduce the rate of whole body protein breakdown, metabolic alterations that would promote muscle protein anabolism in experienced weight lifters attempting to further increase muscle mass.
never, ever question my statements unless you actually have a brain and a real idea of what you are talking about.
ok, so you have only showed us what we already know.....GH doesnt do shit short term......which is why most GH cycles last 6 months to a year.....this study didnt cover that...try again...
bench
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ok, so you have only showed us what we already know.....GH doesnt do shit short term......which is why most GH cycles last 6 months to a year.....this study didnt cover that...try again...
bench
::)
try reading my other posts, then thing about them collectively - that means all together.
hope this helps, if it doesn't i could always try again with a crayon.
-
::)
try reading my other posts, then thing about them collectively - that means all together.
hope this helps, if it doesn't i could always try again with a crayon.
you dont understand what your talking about.....try reading the whole studies, dont just skim through them.....
bench
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you dont understand what your talking about.....try reading the whole studies, dont just skim through them.....
bench
::) i'm pretty sure its clear who's the fool here.
all you are doing here is making yourself look more and more ignorant with every post.
-
::) i'm pretty sure its clear who's the fool here.
all you are doing here is making yourself look more and more ignorant with every post.
It spite of the fact that there are not now, and never will be, studies done on very high levels of GH, esp in conjunction with steroids in huge amounts and even more importantly insulin, you somehow know that these huge amounts don't do "fuck all" for muscle growth. The biggest, most muscular people in the world swear by GH in amounts that cost them several thousand dollars a month, but you somehow know more about its effects than the people that actually use it. You're right, its pretty clear who the fool is here.
-
Gh makes me happy
-
::) i'm pretty sure its clear who's the fool here.
all you are doing here is making yourself look more and more ignorant with every post.
yes, it is....everybody here is telling you that you are wrong....better luck next time ;)
bench
-
36 IUs of GH per day? lol
Dude, that guy wouldn't have a Hummer and a Bentley in his garage then, he would be dead broke. And his nose would be as long as Pinocchios. ::)
It has been done, no doubt whatsoever.
Already back in the mid-90s I knew of some guys doing cycles of one 36iu Genotropin 2-chamber cartridge per day. Looked amazing and some turned pro. These drugs are not bought at pharmacy price most of the time, or basically never. Often they have been STOLEN. A couple of years ago there was a theft of 90K amps of Norditropin Simplexx in Denmark, and you better believe I saw a lot of this item in Sweden, and still do. :D Not that rarely the dealers who have the connections to move these items to the end users are competitive bodybuilders themselves. Those are the ones who can do heavy cycles at "no cost", except for having to move gear.
If a bodybuilder is really desperate to use something he will always find a way. Even if he is seemingly dead broke.
-
What Skip Lacour said is try.
-
BFG is basically right. I am suprised at all the initial guys who disagreed with him.
Also, regarding synthol, look at the very top guys at the Olympia last year - look closely - I suspect synthol use , althouth is very subtle (whcih is an art in itself), as if its too obvious (eg Ruhl) you will get marked down for it.
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It spite of the fact that there are not now, and never will be, studies done on very high levels of GH, esp in conjunction with steroids in huge amounts and even more importantly insulin, you somehow know that these huge amounts don't do "fuck all" for muscle growth. The biggest, most muscular people in the world swear by GH in amounts that cost them several thousand dollars a month, but you somehow know more about its effects than the people that actually use it. You're right, its pretty clear who the fool is here.
i never said they are not growing - they are.
but its not muscles that are growing.
hope this helps
-
Really?!
I'm gonna try again in simpler language....... What makes babies grow? Think really hard before answering because saying growth hormone doesn't increase organ size means you literally think grown adults are using the same sized organs as newborns. :) Yes, it boils down to something that freaking simple.
I read pretty well and can tell you FP's studies are not studying the effects I'm discussing. One even admitted not using dosages people on the street are using.
FP/Adonis and a few others here others are perfect examples of what's wrong with the internet. People without a foundation can't make sense of some of the information because they lack the necessary foundation. Any tard can read conclusions, LOL! It'd be like reading the last paragraph of War and Peace and thinking oneself an expert on Tolstoy, FFS!
FP, despite being an unabashed nut-rider, is a good guy but just plain wrong. Someone can search the internet and find a study to say anything they want. :)
Waste of time exchanges over simple shit like this make it pretty clear why Nico left, LOL!
THEN IT WONT BE HARD TO FIND SOME STUDIES TO SUPPORT YOUR IDEAS THEN WILL IT?????????????????????????????????
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you sound like a sarcastic individual who can't afford gh ;)
::) there has never been any studies done ever on pro level amounts of steroids - as i'm sure you know already you mental midget.
there has been a test +gh study though. again showing it does nothing that is worth the cost/risks
When gh has been studied at normal dosages it does fuck all for muscle growth. when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all for muscle growth, but does make bones grow, and costs much money.
some steroids burn fat, grow muscle and are a whole lot cheaper than gh. there is also no abnormal bone growth from gear.
make your choice.
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i never said they are not growing - they are.
but its not muscles that are growing.
hope this helps
That does help, thanks. I thought the guys using all that GH were huge and carried tons of muscle. Now I know I'm wrong. Thanks for clarifying.
-
In the next 50 yrs the vast majority Americans and Euros will be on some type of hormone replacement therapy. Book it.
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you sound like a sarcastic individual who can't afford gh ;)
you are correct i cannot afford gh.
however if you read my posts you will see there is no proof that gh provides muscle growth.
the studies show growth of organs , bones etc but not muscle. the studies also show high rates of adverse effects - the worse of which is acromegaly, which can occur at relatively small dosages - much smaller than pro's and even national competitors take.
now it is possible that gh does cause some muscle growth at extreme dosages, however the studies i have read do not show anything of the sort that points to this being likely.
also by your simpleton logic you could claim that taking large dosages of anything i.e. apples may cause muscle growth too then, despite there also being no proof of that effect.
if you want to spend thousands of $ on a product thats probably fake - but if you did get real gh, there is a very strong likelyhood that you will get adverse reactions, possible irreversible skeletal bone changes, gh gut, etc etc and ZERO muscle growth.
go right ahead.
you simpletons make me laugh.
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In the next 50 yrs the vast majority Americans and Euros will be on some type of hormone replacement therapy. Book it.
Yeah right heheh. The way the American/ Euro economy is going we won't be able to afford Flintstone vitamins
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now it is possible that gh does cause some muscle growth at extreme dosages, however the studies i have read do not show anything of the sort that points to this being likely.
also by your simpleton logic you could claim that taking large dosages of anything i.e. apples may cause muscle growth too then, despite there also being no proof of that effect.
You're right. Using that same simpleton logic, if I found out that every pro bodybuilder ate 40 apples a day and they all swore it made them grow and as soon as they started this new apple regimen the pros were all suddenly 30 lbs heavier than the ones the year before, I would say there was a very good chance that it worked. You however, would sit around arguing that it didn't work because there had never been a study done proving that it did. I gotta ask, which of us is the simpleton?
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THEN IT WONT BE HARD TO FIND SOME STUDIES TO SUPPORT YOUR IDEAS THEN WILL IT?????????????????????????????????
If I said "water is wet" would you need a study?
Look up growth hormone's mechanisms of actions, which cells in the body have receptors, receptor types, and other hormones increased or influenced by it. Don't just read conclusions, I mean look up the actual endocrine physiology and you'll see I'm not pulling this shit out of my ass.
Any fucktard can read a study conclusion and not know a damn thing about it's design or what it's studying.
At any rate, someone stupid enough to take the shit without knowing how/why it works (beyond a few steroid forums or internet dumbasses who know little to nothing about basic physio) deserves whatever they get.
There's a difference between information and knowledge. I'm here for fun and really am too lazy to fully explain this shit again and have it deleted. :)
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You're right. Using that same simpleton logic, if I found out that every pro bodybuilder ate 40 apples a day and they all swore it made them grow and as soon as they started this new apple regimen the pros were all suddenly 30 lbs heavier than the ones the year before, I would say there was a very good chance that it worked. You however, would sit around arguing that it didn't work because there had never been a study done proving that it did. I gotta ask, which of us is the simpleton?
you should have said bananas you ignorant little monkey >:(
totally wrong analogy - if there were studies done on apples that showed no growth - why the fuck would anyone assume it would cause growth as higher levels ???
also the introduction of gh has never caused mass increases in lean body mass 30+ lbs - insulin has, but not gh. the intro of gh did help produce guts, big jaws, palumboism, etc however
these bodybuilders can swear whatever they like but the facts remain studies show gh does not grow lean muscle mass.
perhaps its the placebo effect, or increased cellular hydration or something else, but they arn't seeing muscle growth from gh.
the fact they have paid $$$$$$ for the gh ( if its even real) just makes them all the more likely to claim wonder results as the reality just doesn't go down well.
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gh + slin seems to have a potent effect
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If I said "water is wet" would you need a study?
Look up growth hormone's mechanisms of actions, which cells in the body have receptors, receptor types, and other hormones increased or influenced by it. Don't just read conclusions, I mean look up the actual endocrine physiology and you'll see I'm not pulling this shit out of my ass.
Any fucktard can read a study conclusion and not know a damn thing about it's design or what it's studying.
At any rate, someone stupid enough to take the shit without knowing how/why it works (beyond a few steroid forums or internet dumbasses who know little to nothing about basic physio) deserves whatever they get.
There's a difference between information and knowledge. I'm here for fun and really am too lazy to fully explain this shit again and have it deleted. :)
::) make your mind up, a few pages ago there were no studies done with gh ::)
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::) make your mind up, a few pages ago there were no studies done with gh ::)
Listen to fatpanda . He knows he's shit :-X
Boom pics of Fatpanda to silence the haters.
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;D
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you should have said bananas you ignorant little monkey >:(
totally wrong analogy - if there were studies done on apples that showed no growth - why the fuck would anyone assume it would cause growth as higher levels ???
Remember 20 years ago when medical science "proved" that steroids don't work? ::)
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you should have said bananas you ignorant little monkey >:(
totally wrong analogy - if there were studies done on apples that showed no growth - why the fuck would anyone assume it would cause growth as higher levels ???
also the introduction of gh has never caused mass increases in lean body mass 30+ lbs - insulin has, but not gh. the intro of gh did help produce guts, big jaws, palumboism, etc however
these bodybuilders can swear whatever they like but the facts remain studies show gh does not grow lean muscle mass.
perhaps its the placebo effect, or increased cellular hydration or something else, but they arn't seeing muscle growth from gh.
the fact they have paid $$$$$$ for the gh ( if its even real) just makes them all the more likely to claim wonder results as the reality just doesn't go down well.
Yeah, if you have nothing else, resort to name-calling. That will prove you're right and that my logic sucks.
When bodybuilders came out and said that no carb/ low carb diets were the way to get ripped, medical science and there studies said it was bullshit. When bodybuilders said steroids make you grow muscle, studies showed that there was no proof that they did. Bodybuilders now say GH builds muscle, esp in conjunction with insulin, and every one I have talked to said that adding GH makes you grow much faster than insulin and juice alone. Studies say no....
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You must have a learning disability or reading comprehension problem.
Go back and read the studies you posted with a dictionary to help on the big words. You should have actually read the studies first, LOL! Jumping to conclusions makes you look even less informed than before. Lean muscle mass is deceiving and you actually don't even know what definition they're using. Also, they admitted not using the amount of drug typical abusers do. The study is beyond useless for what we're discussing.
hGH does cause muscle growth, there's just no way to control which ones. :)
Find a peer-reviewed human study with people taking the amounts of drugs bodybuilders are using. :)
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GH + training definately produces muscle growth - anyone who has taken GH will be able to confirm that.
Remember in the early days of steriods, many doctors claimed no medical evidence existed to show that steroids + training produce muscle growth. The athletes and bbuilders taking it knew it all along that it worked...
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doctor who - you need to take your own advice.
the studies i posted back what i'm saying 100%.
you are clearly no doctor.
you have used this same old nonsense in the past also : if you fully read the studies blah blah blah
its lucky for you that most here won't/can't understand the studies as you would never be taken seriously here ever again - which you wont be by me anyway.
srgspar - i apologise for insulting you.
it gets frustrating when i try to explain my position through logic and people just do not or will not accept my position. perhaps i am not explaining myself, or perhaps we will simply have to agree to disagree on this matter.
for the record it is my belief ( with the backing of current studies) that gh is useless for skeletal muscle growth.
It is possible that extreme dosages could produce some muscle growth - however i see no evidence of this in current studies, nor anything to suggest such.
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I should know better than trying to explain simple facts to people here, LOL!
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In the next 50 yrs the vast majority Americans and Euros will be on some type of hormone replacement therapy. Book it.
THANK YOU!!!!! Finally someone at Getbig with a mind. This is the truth
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Hey panda, just give up hehehe. I agree with you 100% and understand. The reality is this is a BB forum called get big . It is fun but little more than bro science in most cases. For example, an actual pro like Bob Chick makes a reasonable, basic answer to a question and the numbnuts give him crack. BUT, have some unknown numbnut come on a claim to post the "REAL TRUTH" and they lap it up.
Did you bother to read the studies he posted or just the conclusions and highlights?
If Guytons and several medical texts are wrong we should probably nominate FP for an internet Nobel prize. :)
People stupid enough to take drugs without doing real homework deserve whatever they get.
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Did you bother to read the studies he posted or just the conclusions and highlights?
If Guytons and several medical texts are wrong we should probably nominate FP for an internet Nobel prize. :)
People stupid enough to take drugs without doing real homework deserve whatever they get.
::) still trying to pretend you know what you are talking about ::)
you must be the only doctor in the world that has time to post 14000 times on a bodybuilding board, and didn't think there were any studies on gh ::)
hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaha
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::) still trying to pretend you know what you are talking about ::)
you must be the only doctor in the world that has time to post 14000 times on a bodybuilding board, and didn't think there were any studies on gh ::)
hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaha
This level of emotionality perfectly explains how some people justify overeating. They'd rather feel than be right, LOL!
I never implied there were no human studies with gH. Human studies at the levels users take would be unethical.
Not one of the studies you posted has participants using gH like people on the street are taking it. Of course there are studies done on deficient people, FFS.
They showed changes in body composition.
One showed increased call mass.
Sorry but, lean muscle holds more water.
The first study had a 12 week wash out period.
One study had 7 people actually taking the drug, LOL! You really want to draw a conclusion from 7 people?!
I really thought you were kidding with the studies. I overestimated you and thought the whole stupid, fly off the handle and post stupid shit was an act.
I agree with one earlier poster, though. At some point they'll know even more about receptors and be able to better tailor HRT for people with diseases. No idea how long something like that takes to hit the streets, though.
There is one good thing...... laughter apparently increases growth hormone and IGF 1 so your attempts at looking smart here have made me healthier. :)
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Why so many fags doubting the GH usage? You have to be a fucking DUNCE to believe that anyone's paying inflated street prices if they're running that much. You guys are naive little pussies who clearly live in the basements of your mother's homes. Venture into the outside world and expand your horizons. Talk to people who aren't on the internet from time to time.
Do you think that pros buy a vial of test for $100 in a dirty gym locker room every few weeks? No, they buy thousands of amps and hundreds of vials of stolen or illegally acquired human grade products and resell them. That PAYS for all of their drugs and they can make a strong margin depending on how aggressive they are. Lots of steroid dealers are passive and just make a margin that allows them to push small amounts of gear so they can run whatever they want for free. Same thing with GH. My friend imported quite a large fuckload of GH and when I got sick with H1N1 I ran 30iu a day of GH. It was probably underdosed but nevertheless, I was running a decent amount and it worked quite well. I only use GH when I get sick because I can't afford to run a ton of it year-round, but I do have friends that run 15-20iu ED 365 days a year.
Personally I think the funds are better spent on test and other steroids but it's not impossible to run large amounts of ANY drug for a reasonable price. Gym rats are running GH year-round, legit GH. The GH that you fags think is impossible to acquire unless you're Donald Trump. Wake up and smell the manties, homos. Steroids and other PEDs are dealt the same way any other controlled substance is. And when you're boss, you don't go paying inflated "street prices" when you want to get high, get jacked, get ripped, whatever.
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Why so many fags doubting the GH usage? You have to be a fucking DUNCE to believe that anyone's paying inflated street prices if they're running that much. You guys are naive little pussies who clearly live in the basements of your mother's homes. Venture into the outside world and expand your horizons. Talk to people who aren't on the internet from time to time.
Do you think that pros buy a vial of test for $100 in a dirty gym locker room every few weeks? No, they buy thousands of amps and hundreds of vials of stolen or illegally acquired human grade products and resell them. That PAYS for all of their drugs and they can make a strong margin depending on how aggressive they are. Lots of steroid dealers are passive and just make a margin that allows them to push small amounts of gear so they can run whatever they want for free. Same thing with GH. My friend imported quite a large fuckload of GH and when I got sick with H1N1 I ran 30iu a day of GH. It was probably underdosed but nevertheless, I was running a decent amount and it worked quite well. I only use GH when I get sick because I can't afford to run a ton of it year-round, but I do have friends that run 15-20iu ED 365 days a year.
Personally I think the funds are better spent on test and other steroids but it's not impossible to run large amounts of ANY drug for a reasonable price. Gym rats are running GH year-round, legit GH. The GH that you fags think is impossible to acquire unless you're Donald Trump. Wake up and smell the manties, homos. Steroids and other PEDs are dealt the same way any other controlled substance is. And when you're boss, you don't go paying inflated "street prices" when you want to get high, get jacked, get ripped, whatever.
lol someone finally got the concept of drugs 101. Post is dead on, unless people wanna believe IFBB pros are spending millions of dollars on GH and live in denial.
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gh create a monster out of a no body,,good example is tomas prince,,ill let you in on a secret that no bmg can tell you since he is amatuer if he is even real,,butit dont matter,,the secret is....when you use gh eq and test together in a simple stuck and you keep eq high ,,thats when you start getting the round delt phillp heath has....when you had tren to it ...you get a twist and get the german marcus freakiness ,,,ofcourdr those will be smaller version of bodybuilder since you dont have the money and connection to get to the german marcus size,,never the less you up the dose into the grams and gh into the 20-30 and you get a freak of nature ala marcus,,thats when structure come into play and will establish how far you can go ...thsat include muscle bellies ...,,the reason i mention the eq on higher dose testosterona and gh at higher dose and then the trenbolona is because thats the only pattern into a freak ,,no other patern ,,this is THE ONLY WAY to keep waist tight and fairly small while growing the muscle from within to explose through the skin and getting the skin thin enough to give the cuts and insertion a freaky apperance,,
its a simple concept that every competetive bodybuilder know and does,,the ones who get higher are the ones who respond better and can up thr dose consistantly,,
gh15 approved
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gh create a monster out of a no body,,good example is tomas prince,,ill let you in on a secret that no bmg can tell you since he is amatuer if he is even real,,butit dont matter,,the secret is....when you use gh eq and test together in a simple stuck and you keep eq high ,,thats when you start getting the round delt phillp heath has....when you had tren to it ...you get a twist and get the german marcus freakiness ,,,ofcourdr those will be smaller version of bodybuilder since you dont have the money and connection to get to the german marcus size,,never the less you up the dose into the grams and gh into the 20-30 and you get a freak of nature ala marcus,,thats when structure come into play and will establish how far you can go ...thsat include muscle bellies ...,,the reason i mention the eq on higher dose testosterona and gh at higher dose and then the trenbolona is because thats the only pattern into a freak ,,no other patern ,,this is THE ONLY WAY to keep waist tight and fairly small while growing the muscle from within to explose through the skin and getting the skin thin enough to give the cuts and insertion a freaky apperance,,
its a simple concept that every competetive bodybuilder know and does,,the ones who get higher are the ones who respond better and can up thr dose consistantly,,
gh15 approved
AMEN...
no need to argue.
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gh create a monster out of a no body,,good example is tomas prince,,ill let you in on a secret that no bmg can tell you since he is amatuer if he is even real,,butit dont matter,,the secret is....when you use gh eq and test together in a simple stuck and you keep eq high ,,thats when you start getting the round delt phillp heath has....when you had tren to it ...you get a twist and get the german marcus freakiness ,,,ofcourdr those will be smaller version of bodybuilder since you dont have the money and connection to get to the german marcus size,,never the less you up the dose into the grams and gh into the 20-30 and you get a freak of nature ala marcus,,thats when structure come into play and will establish how far you can go ...thsat include muscle bellies ...,,the reason i mention the eq on higher dose testosterona and gh at higher dose and then the trenbolona is because thats the only pattern into a freak ,,no other patern ,,this is THE ONLY WAY to keep waist tight and fairly small while growing the muscle from within to explose through the skin and getting the skin thin enough to give the cuts and insertion a freaky apperance,,
its a simple concept that every competetive bodybuilder know and does,,the ones who get higher are the ones who respond better and can up thr dose consistantly,,
gh15 approved
how rigid are these guidelines.......??
i have seen some supposed pro cycles outlined that didnt necessarily look like this....i mean,,,,,,,,,there are a bunch of steroids............what about primobolon, androl, winstrol, anavar.....ect.......... .....does it HAVE TO BE EXACTLY that combonation
and about the tren, does it necessarily matter what ester..............tren ace, hex, enth
and i was always of the impression that it was the peptides like HGH, slin, and IGF that made the waist wide through various much-argued over mechanisms
what im saying is, i know there are some mainstays ..........test, tren, lot of guys like EQ............but there are other variations correcct??
for example, i know the chemical game came a long ways since arnolds time..............but he reportedly once said that Primobolon is the "champagne" of steroids
and also, not to question the god..........but you always adamant about human grade gear being the ONLY way...........whereas... .........two of the main drugs you just mentioned are only available black market...............doe s these pros have acess to some magical black market stuff that other people dont
specifically...........w e hear that DAVE JACOBS was running an underground OP that supplied numerous pros that raved about his shit..............but even he freely admitted that he was buying that same bulk powders from china that everyone else is............SO where is the difference between the UG shit pros get, and the UG shit the rest get.,.........if your using the same questionable quality bulk powders from china, where does the difference come in.........in the way its made???
Long Live God....
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This level of emotionality perfectly explains how some people justify overeating. They'd rather feel than be right, LOL!
I never implied there were no human studies with gH. Human studies at the levels users take would be unethical.
Not one of the studies you posted has participants using gH like people on the street are taking it. Of course there are studies done on deficient people, FFS.
They showed changes in body composition.
One showed increased call mass.
Sorry but, lean muscle holds more water.
The first study had a 12 week wash out period.
One study had 7 people actually taking the drug, LOL! You really want to draw a conclusion from 7 people?!
I really thought you were kidding with the studies. I overestimated you and thought the whole stupid, fly off the handle and post stupid shit was an act.
I agree with one earlier poster, though. At some point they'll know even more about receptors and be able to better tailor HRT for people with diseases. No idea how long something like that takes to hit the streets, though.
There is one good thing...... laughter apparently increases growth hormone and IGF 1 so your attempts at looking smart here have made me healthier. :)
::)
Participants: 96 recreationally trained athletes (63 men and 33 women) with a mean age of 27.9 years (SD, 5.7).
i am utterly astounded that you managed to convince people here for so long that you are a doctor - myself included.
you are done here - you have crashed and burned.
you have no credibility left whatsoever.
congrats on lasting this long though.
perhaps if you delete your account, re join as Dr Dick and try again, while making sure to avoid any and all disagreements with myself you'll last longer.
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This angry queen reminds me of Adonis.
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This angry queen reminds me of Adonis.
please do not even mention a great mind like adonis - you do not deserve to even speak his name.
you are a fraud, an impostor, a clown.
adonis has a great analytical and rational mind and you would do well to read his posts.
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please do not even mention a great mind like adonis - you do not deserve to even speak his name.
you are a fraud, an impostor, a clown.
adonis has a great analytical and rational mind and you would do well to read his posts.
It would have been cool if you came up with something new but since I got bored....
Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine, 16th Edition page(s) 2087, 2088 & 2090.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071391401?ie=UTF8&tag=getbigcom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0071391401
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It would have been cool if you came up with something new but since I got bored....
Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine, 16th Edition page(s) 2087, 2088 & 2090.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071391401?ie=UTF8&tag=getbigcom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0071391401
jake u can contribute a LOT to these threads (time permitting of course)
i ws sorta waiting and continue to do so....again ...time permitting for u
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as for those that think gear is expensive.. think again.. i know many guys that get hg test for little more than 1.00 a amp.. yes 1.00 a amp.. i knw another guys who actually gets his crap straight from the manufacture in the middle east.. again, a little over 1.00 amp.. you can get hg test on the internet for 2-3 dollars amp.. so taking large dosage of test is really cheaper than taking creatine lol..
as for the hgh.. come on.. are some of these guys on here 12 year old?.. do you think these guys are paying inflated prices for hgh.. no they are not.. hgh is not expensive at all if you know where to look.. and the dosages that are mentioned (20-30 ius) a day are not that uncommon.. silly? yes.. but not uncommon..
as for hgh not building muscle.. how silly.. hgh when combined with androgens will build some freaky ass muscle.. there is no room for debate here.. hgh on its own does not do much.. but when taken with high androgens the synergy is amazing..
as for the dosages that gh15 and bfg are talking about.. i dont see the debate.. both are basically saying the same thing..lol they take a lot of shit!! no issue there.. is gh15 a pro? no i doubt it.. but he is still accurate.. is bfg someone who is right? yes also..
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as for those that think gear is expensive.. think again.. i know many guys that get hg test for little more than 1.00 a amp.. yes 1.00 a amp.. i knw another guys who actually gets his crap straight from the manufacture in the middle east.. again, a little over 1.00 amp.. you can get hg test on the internet for 2-3 dollars amp.. so taking large dosage of test is really cheaper than taking creatine lol..
as for the hgh.. come on.. are some of these guys on here 12 year old?.. do you think these guys are paying inflated prices for hgh.. no they are not.. hgh is not expensive at all if you know where to look.. and the dosages that are mentioned (20-30 ius) a day are not that uncommon.. silly? yes.. but not uncommon..
as for hgh not building muscle.. how silly.. hgh when combined with androgens will build some freaky ass muscle.. there is no room for debate here.. hgh on its own does not do much.. but when taken with high androgens the synergy is amazing..
as for the dosages that gh15 and bmg are talking about.. i dont see the debate.. both are basically saying the same thing..lol they take a lot of shit!! no issue there.. is gh15 a pro? no i doubt it.. but he is still accurate.. is bmg someone who is right? yes also..
x2
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Tren quality can create a huge variance in ones physique. Good tren rips me up and fills me out after a couple hundred mgs total and the most I've ever run was 75mg ed.
Occasionally you'll see all the local gym rats get swole as fuck but stay ripped when good batches of tren are in town. If it weren't for the prolactin I'd probably hunt down good fina sources and try brewing my own but I'll just stick with test and play it safe. Even 50mg of tren eod starts making me a bit buggy. Can't imagine how batshit crazy people must feel running a gram of this shit each week, especially legit, very high quality tren.
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jake u can contribute a LOT to these threads (time permitting of course)
i ws sorta waiting and continue to do so....again ...time permitting for u
Juni,
I'm done with any posting related to diet, nutrition, or drugs. Trying to help people understand simple shit is a waste of time.
Interested people can avail themselves of GetBig's numerous experts, LOL!
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Juni,
I'm done with any posting related to diet, nutrition, or drugs. Trying to help people understand simple shit is a waste of time.
Interested people can avail themselves of GetBig's numerous experts, LOL!
But doc, just look at the results that Panda has achieved....oh wait.... :-\
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haha the unemployed homeless bum "fat" panda is now a steroid and hgh expert after never using any of them and using Google for a few online studies
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haha the unemployed homeless bum "fat" panda is now a steroid and hgh expert after never using any of them and using Google for a few online studies
on gb, everyone is an expert in sth.
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It would have been cool if you came up with something new but since I got bored....
Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine, 16th Edition page(s) 2087, 2088 & 2090.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071391401?ie=UTF8&tag=getbigcom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0071391401
[/quote
hahahaha was that on your recommended reading list at medical school ::)
doctor - oh brother. ::)
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lots of hate for the panda in this thread :o
how will i ever cope :o