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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on October 05, 2010, 12:48:23 PM
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Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground
Originally printed at http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Firefighters-watch-as-home-burns-to-the-ground-104052668.html
By Reporter - Jason Hibbs
By Photojournalist - Mark Owen
September 30, 2010
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OBION COUNTY, Tenn. - Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won't respond, then watches it burn. That's exactly what happened to a local family tonight.
A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.
The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn't do anything to stop his house from burning.
Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay.
The mayor said if homeowners don't pay, they're out of luck.
This fire went on for hours because garden hoses just wouldn't put it out. It wasn't until that fire spread to a neighbor's property, that anyone would respond.
Turns out, the neighbor had paid the fee.
"I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong," said Gene Cranick.
Because of that, not much is left of Cranick's house.
They called 911 several times, and initially the South Fulton Fire Department would not come.
The Cranicks told 9-1-1 they would pay firefighters, whatever the cost, to stop the fire before it spread to their house.
"When I called I told them that. My grandson had already called there and he thought that when I got here I could get something done, I couldn't," Paulette Cranick.
It was only when a neighbor's field caught fire, a neighbor who had paid the county fire service fee, that the department responded. Gene Cranick asked the fire chief to make an exception and save his home, the chief wouldn't.
We asked him why.
He wouldn't talk to us and called police to have us escorted off the property. Police never came but firefighters quickly left the scene. Meanwhile, the Cranick home continued to burn.
We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception.
"Anybody that's not in the city of South Fulton, it's a service we offer, either they accept it or they don't," Mayor David Crocker said.
Friends and neighbors said it's a cruel and dangerous city policy but the Cranicks don't blame the firefighters themselves. They blame the people in charge.
"They're doing their job," Paulette Cranick said of the firefighters. "They're doing what they are told to do. It's not their fault."
To give you an idea of just how intense the feelings got in this situation, soon after the fire department returned to the station, the Obion County Sheriff's Department said someone went there and assaulted one of the firefighters.
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guys - what do you think about this? personally, even though the guy did not pay the $75, I can't believe they just let it burn like that. We all make some mistakes, but to just let the house go?
I got into a discussion on FR on this, and they are calling me a Lib for saying the house should have been saved despite the fact thatt he guy did not pay the $75.
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Should have saved it and just charged him the cost. Pretty stupid.
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Should have saved it and just charged him the cost. Pretty stupid.
Obama did it
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Obama did it
;D
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Obama did it
Maybe obama caused the guy to lose his job and he could not afford the $75?
Maybe his health care costs skyrocketed due to ObamaCare and could not afford the $75?
Go call Mal - I did not think of that angle. Probably true.
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While I do think it's dumb to not just put it out and charge him.....seems like he knew he was supposed to pay for the protection and chose not to. Hard to feel real sorry for him.
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PAY THE FREAKING MONEY STUPID F'N FREELOADER!!!!The fire department should have let it burn as they did.If they put it out the next guy wouldnt have paid either,eventually no one would pay and the program goes under.PAY YOUR FREAKING BILLS!
Im also glad they made sure to put out the fire of the guys house who did pay.That should be a good lesson for the next guy who wont pay.The health care should be just like this,no insurance,no money,you die on the street motherf##ker.
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Union work at its finest.
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Should have saved it and just charged him the cost. Pretty stupid.
Yep. Heartless too.
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Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground
Originally printed at http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Firefighters-watch-as-home-burns-to-the-ground-104052668.html
By Reporter - Jason Hibbs
By Photojournalist - Mark Owen
September 30, 2010
________________________ ________________________ _______________________
guys - what do you think about this? personally, even though the guy did not pay the $75, I can't believe they just let it burn like that. We all make some mistakes, but to just let the house go?
I got into a discussion on FR on this, and they are calling me a Lib for saying the house should have been saved despite the fact thatt he guy did not pay the $75.
LOL, 333386 are you turning into a socialist in your old age?
You do realize that what you advocate is in fact socialism don't you?
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LOL, 333386 are you turning into a socialist in your old age?
You do realize that what you advocate is in fact socialism don't you?
No - i would have put a lien for for 50k on the house after the fact. there just seems something wrong with letting the house burn down over $75.
Here is my thought - what if they had a fee of $75 for a paramedic and the guy was having a heart attack on the street. Should the paramedics let the guy die in the street over $75?
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Should have saved it and just charged him the cost. Pretty stupid.
Agree.
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PAY THE FREAKING MONEY STUPID F'N FREELOADER!!!!The fire department should have let it burn as they did.If they put it out the next guy wouldnt have paid either,eventually no one would pay and the program goes under.PAY YOUR FREAKING BILLS!
Im also glad they made sure to put out the fire of the guys house who did pay.That should be a good lesson for the next guy who wont pay.The health care should be just like this,no insurance,no money,you die on the street motherf##ker.
The irony is the guy whose field caught fire that they did respond to, ...wouldn't have had a problem to begin with had they simply responded to the first fire. The same will be the case with health insurance. Do you really want to be the guy WITH health insurance who contracts a very painful, incapacitating, contagious disease, which mutated into an incurable, untreatable and lethal one ...simply because the guy without health care wasn't treated?
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No - i would have put a lien for for 50k on the house after the fact. there just seems something wrong with letting the house burn down over $75.
Hey, I'm in total agreement with you. Letting the house burn was just wrong.
Here is my thought - what if they had a fee of $75 for a paramedic and the guy was having a heart attack on the street. Should the paramedics let the guy die in the street over $75?
Do you really have to ask me how I feel about that? You know how I feel about Universal Health care.
I'm just so saddened that you guys south of our mutual border won't experience the joys of real universal healthcare under a single payer system, ...cause what you guys have now under Obamacare sure ain't it.
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Flaws in the system.
The fire dept. Should have saved the house, put a collection on their credit report and sent 33333 to collect it.
Then 3333 and Obama could have sat down and had a beer together. Of course 3333 would have insisted on being able to pack at the meeting and the secret service would have had to make a compromise as long it was ok for Obama to pack a socialist youth dagger.
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Flaws in the system.
The fire dept. Should have saved the house, put a collection on their credit report and sent 33333 to collect it.
Then 3333 and Obama could have sat down and had a beer together. Of course 3333 would have insisted on being able to pack at the meeting and the secret service would have had to make a compromise as long it was ok for Obama to pack a socialist youth dagger.
;D
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Flaws in the system.
The fire dept. Should have saved the house, put a collection on their credit report and sent 33333 to collect it.
Then 3333 and Obama could have sat down and had a beer together. Of course 3333 would have insisted on being able to pack at the meeting and the secret service would have had to make a compromise as long it was ok for Obama to pack a socialist youth dagger.
:-* :-* :-*
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The irony is the guy whose field caught fire that they did respond to, ...wouldn't have had a problem to begin with had they simply responded to the first fire. The same will be the case with health insurance. Do you really want to be the guy WITH health insurance who contracts a very painful, incapacitating, contagious disease, which mutated into an incurable, untreatable and lethal one ...simply because the guy without health care wasn't treated?
Most people let their emotions speak for them.They say save the house.If you saved the house why in the world would ANYONE ever pay the 75 dollars again.They would simply say "no need to pay it,they will save my house anyway".Sorry,you didnt pay,you KNEW they would let it burn,you took your chances and you got burned.Sorry,I have no mercy for you,I have mercy for the people that pay the 75 bucks and their house NEVER EVER catches fire.
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Most people let their emotions speak for them.They say save the house.If you saved the house why in the world would ANYONE ever pay the 75 dollars again.They would simply say "no need to pay it,they will save my house anyway".Sorry,you didnt pay,you KNEW they would let it burn,you took your chances and you got burned.Sorry,I have no mercy for you,I have mercy for the people that pay the 75 bucks and their house NEVER EVER catches fire.
It's billy Mimnaugh in a bulking phase..Nice tats on the neck. When did you get those billy?
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Most people let their emotions speak for them.They say save the house.If you saved the house why in the world would ANYONE ever pay the 75 dollars again.They would simply say "no need to pay it,they will save my house anyway".Sorry,you didnt pay,you KNEW they would let it burn,you took your chances and you got burned.Sorry,I have no mercy for you,I have mercy for the people that pay the 75 bucks and their house NEVER EVER catches fire.
I agree the guy totally screwed up and probably knew, but at the same time, I think it was wrong to let it burn. i'm sure there are not a lot of fires as it is and they could have imposed a massive lien and judgement against him.
I just don't think we should give people the equivelent of the death penalty property wise for missing a $75 payment.
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It's billy Mimnaugh in a bulking phase..Nice tats on the neck. When did you get those billy?
Sorry,not me,but here is me from Aug. at 46 years old.810 squat 605 bench
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Change we can believe in!
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Sorry,not me,but here is me from Aug. at 46 years old.810 squat 605 bench
The Sad thing is the Guy in the video i posted looks better than you, and he doesn't even train.. ;D
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moron should have paid the fee, they should have saved the house but charged a penalty say 2k for the sake of doing so...
if he is smart he probably has insured his house for damage from fire but seeing as he didnt pay 75 bucks for the fire department Id say he doesnt have insurance either...
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Stolen from FR
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To: ozarkgirl
The "common sense" is very clear: rather than behave compassionately, these men acted out of motivation for the almighty dollar. They watched his house burn (metaphorically, if not literally). Any lesson he might have learned is drowned in the totality of his loss (let's remember, the son didn't say "Gee, we should have paid. Sorry, we'll do that from now on." He went and punched out the fire chief). You haven't won him over to the side of repentance for his selfishness (not paying his $75)... you've taught him that selfishness is the RULE (watching his house burn).
What you advocate is akin to punishing your toddler for smacking his brother by cutting off the toddler's hand hand. I guess he'll learn not to be violent now!
Two wrongs don't make a right, whatever the rationale...
324 posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:41:18 PM by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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I'm with BILLY.
To give him the service anyway would have been total socialism.
And i'm betting the guy had ciggies in his pocket or mountain dew in his fridge. He just didn't get the insurance because "he figured it wouldn't happen to him".
$75 a year is about 20 cents a day. Sucks for this guy... but if they allowed EVERYONE to just pay the $75 afterwards - nobody would pay up front.
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WWJD?
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They seem to be acting more like a corporation than a service. Sad really. If he can't afford the $75 he likely doesn't have insurance.
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They seem to be acting more like a corporation than a service. Sad really. If he can't afford the $75 he likely doesn't have insurance.
lol it never said he couldnt afford the $75, so if he could have and didnt pay should he have received the service anyway?
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Would to like to hear from the Christian right on getbig about this matter..WWJD?
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WWJD?
Mal - if it were me I would have saved the guys house. Yes the guy is a moron for not paying, and he should be dealt with, but the firepeople having taken the effort to go there and just stand and watch it burn down over a measily $75?
Come on already. WTF?
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lol it never said he couldnt afford the $75, so if he could have and didnt pay should he have received the service anyway?
Yes. It's a service for the commons. It's sad it's had to be funded by an extra $75 and can't be funded by property taxes and state taxes. Perhaps the solution is a raise in taxes to stop this.
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Yes. It's a service for the commons. It's sad it's had to be funded by an extra $75 and can't be funded by property taxes and state taxes. Perhaps the solution is a raise in taxes to stop this.
I'm in a thread on FR and being attacked for my position as being a Lib.
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I'm in a thread on FR and being attacked for my position as being a Lib.
Some people don't believe in the commons i guess.
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Mal - if it were me I would have saved the guys house. Yes the guy is a moron for not paying, and he should be dealt with, but the firepeople having taken the effort to go there and just stand and watch it burn down over a measily $75?
Come on already. WTF?
i just wanted to know.. i would have done it too.. its kind of fucked up
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Also - on same thread in FR -
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To: shy.invisible.grl
And now we see the difference between libertarianism and conservatism. Libertarianism is based on the Rousseauian concept of the "noble savage" (much like liberalism). It sees humanity as a collection of independent, self-sufficient beings whose only connection is through formal contractual means. Libertarianism eschews concepts like "morality" as a basis of personal responsibility; only that which an individual has formally agreed to is considered a duty. This road parallels liberalism and leads to the same eventual destination: a humanity devoid of humanity; a civilization of angry, isolated cynics struggling to keep what is "theirs" without regard to their fellow man.
Conservatism recognizes that human beings are fundamentally social creatures, and that our "individualistic self-sufficiency" is an illusion born of plenty. The "noble savage" is, when isolated or alone, a dead savage. Human interaction is mediated not only by the formal contracts we endorse, but also by the constraints of our morality. It is this morality (the sense of something larger/greater/more important than ourselves) that culminates in the concept of Natural Law, the foundation of our republic. Libertarians like to ignore that our Founders understood morality to be as fundamental a natural law as our God-given right to freedom.
The libertarian, upon reading this story, states that the firemen have no legal or contractual duty to help put out the fire. True. But the conservative notes that it is fundamentally immoral to watch a fellow person's house burn down and not try to help them. The libertarian confuses moral imperative with obligation. "And to hell with the Golden Rule!" they say. The conservative understands that an act of saving/generosity doesn't just reward with a potential financial gain (as the thankful homeowner might pay), but that it creates a sense of community whose benefits transcend the simply pecuniary.
How many of our modern problems are due to our loss of community? Yet this is the ultimate destination of libertarianism (and the selfish bast*rds who revel in it). And it is a future every conservative must despise (and combat)...
296 posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:29:22 PM by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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Letting someone buy fire preventive care AFTER they need it = total socialist move.
It's funny to see 'conservatives" saying they should have risked their lives and used thousands of dollars in resources for a guy who preferred to buy Newports over fire dept services.
Healthcare? you're on your own, fcktard. Firecare? Don't worry about paying, "the system" will take care of you and we'll "put a lien on your home".... holy obama socialism, batman!
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Mal - if it were me I would have saved the guys house. Yes the guy is a moron for not paying, and he should be dealt with, but the firepeople having taken the effort to go there and just stand and watch it burn down over a measily $75?
Come on already. WTF?
Yeah and aree they as a result going to be a burden on social services? At what cost?
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Most people let their emotions speak for them.They say save the house.If you saved the house why in the world would ANYONE ever pay the 75 dollars again.They would simply say "no need to pay it,they will save my house anyway".Sorry,you didnt pay,you KNEW they would let it burn,you took your chances and you got burned.Sorry,I have no mercy for you,I have mercy for the people that pay the 75 bucks and their house NEVER EVER catches fire.
Simple minded Queen Mimnaugh strikes again. Lets say this persons house was in a densely wooded area and the fire department refused as they did...and because of that the woods caught fire which races out of control and instead of just his house burning down...THE WHOLE COMMUNITY BURNS DOWN along with power lines, phone lines, cable lines not to mention the loss of many lives as is seen in the raging fires in California. The cost involved in repairing and restoring the whole community would run into the MILLIONS all for the sake of 75 dollars??? Does that even make sense? Also what are the residents paying local and state taxes for? Isn't the taxes for the police and fire department?
I would like to know how the insurenace company is going to handle this and what legal rights and law suits he may be entitled to. As it stands the fire departments refusal to put out the fire and teh subsequent fire on someone elses property will give the insurance company grounds NOT to pay out on policies, because it was a preventable situation had the fire department showed up when called. Now the town will be sued by the property owner for the damage, which will cost way more than 75 dollars.
CAPITALISM AT ITS FINEST...
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Would to like to hear from the Christian right on getbig about this matter..WWJD?
Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers. Give to God what is Gods'.
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Give to Ceasers what is Ceasers. Give to God what is Gods'.
wow ok
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Here is another reason I think is plain stupid. Lets say the home is now a total loss. For tax assessment purposes, the property taxes will be sliced and slashed to a fraction of the original bill. So lets say the guy was paying 3k a year in property taxes, but now it will be $500.00.
What did the town save by not putting out the fire? Nothing.
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Yes. It's a service for the commons. It's sad it's had to be funded by an extra $75 and can't be funded by property taxes and state taxes. Perhaps the solution is a raise in taxes to stop this.
agreed but it should be covered by taxes but fact is it wasnt and he didnt pay for whatever reason...so seeing as he didnt pay even though he knew he needed to in order to receive that service should it have been put out?
I think they should have but penalized this guy excessively...
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Here is another reason I think is plain stupid. Lets say the home is now a total loss. For tax assessment purposes, the property taxes will be sliced and slashed to a fraction of the original bill. So lets say the guy was paying 3k a year in property taxes, but now it will be $500.00.
What did the town save by not putting out the fire? Nothing.
Ahhhhhh so it's "okay" to bail out companies, cause they'll pay taxes in the future? ;)
it's okay to give out free healthcare - since the people will live longer to pay more taxes in the future? ;)
You can justify the use of socialist practices based on FUTURE TAX PAYING POTENTIAL? LMAO
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agreed but it should be covered by taxes but fact is it wasnt and he didnt pay for whatever reason...so seeing as he didnt pay even though he knew he needed to in order to receive that service should it have been put out?
I think they should have but penalized this guy excessively...
Kinda reminds you of the obama healthcare thing ;)
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Would to like to hear from the Christian right on getbig about this matter..WWJD?
lmao are you a christian hater now too mal?
I want to hear about what a liberal would do? ;)
probably force the neighbor to pay the $75 dollars and then house the idiot while the neighbor pays to have the house fixed... :D
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Ahhhhhh so it's "okay" to bail out companies, cause they'll pay taxes in the future? ;)
it's okay to give out free healthcare - since the people will live longer to pay more taxes in the future? ;)
You can justify the use of socialist practices based on FUTURE TAX PAYING POTENTIAL? LMAO
;D
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Here is another reason I think is plain stupid. Lets say the home is now a total loss. For tax assessment purposes, the property taxes will be sliced and slashed to a fraction of the original bill. So lets say the guy was paying 3k a year in property taxes, but now it will be $500.00.
What did the town save by not putting out the fire? Nothing.
Good point.
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;D
weird little circle we've run here. You're defending the socialist point! I love it!
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Kinda reminds you of the obama healthcare thing ;)
without a doubt dont force the ppl to buy something but if they dont let them deal with it...which is what alot of ppl have been saying for a long time...
your solution is to force ppl to buy insurance in order to prevent the idiocy of these ppl instead of simply making them deal with their idiocy
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weird little circle we've run here. You're defending the socialist point! I love it!
I'm trying to look at reality on the ground when it occured at the moment. Also - these two are likely now to require social assistance from the govt - so what was actually accomplished here over his not paying the $75? nothing.
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Fucking unreal the goddamn FIRE DEPARTMENT would let the guys house burn down... whether or not he paid the ransom beforehand.
I hope he civil sues that dept to the point they have to buy 10X the size of the house he had.
Bastards.
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CAPITALISM AT ITS FINEST...
Forza socialismo...
Capitalism is broken anyway
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I'm trying to look at reality on the ground when it occured at the moment. Also - these two are likely now to require social assistance from the govt - so what was actually accomplished here over his not paying the $75? nothing.
Right...seemed like they let policy get in the way of common sense
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Maybe obama caused the guy to lose his job and he could not afford the $75?
Maybe his health care costs skyrocketed due to ObamaCare and could not afford the $75?
Go call Mal - I did not think of that angle. Probably true.
he said he just forgot to pay it
how does it feel like to be called a Lib for expressing an common sense opinion
can you imagine how f'd up this country would be if Repubs had their way and privatized everything
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I'm trying to look at reality on the ground when it occured at the moment. Also - these two are likely now to require social assistance from the govt - so what was actually accomplished here over his not paying the $75? nothing.
By your logic..........
Why would ANY hospital allow a person to DIE instead of treating him for an illness?
Why would ANY store let a person STARVE instead of just giving them free food?
It's damn likely almost everyone in that town will pay the $75 for firecare next year ;)
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he said he just forgot to pay it
how does it feel like to be called a Lib for expressing an common sense opinion
can you imagine how f'd up this country would be if Repubs had their way and privatized everything
You mean like when a insurance company pulls funding hours before a patient is about to go into surgery?
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he said he just forgot to pay it
how does it feel like to be called a Lib for expressing an common sense opinion
can you imagine how f'd up this country would be if Repubs had their way and privatized everything
33367 is libertarian now...Don't confuse him for a liberal... ;D
he left the republican party last feb/march if i recall..
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to be clear -
If we can justify it financially - socialism is okay?
if it makes financial sense to give someone a service (they didn't pay for) because in the long-term, they'll give that $ back to the 'system'....
it's okay to give them the same service (for free) as those who paid?
LIB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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LOL poor 333386. He's never gonna live this down. :D
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to be clear -
If we can justify it financially - socialism is okay?
if it makes financial sense to give someone a service (they didn't pay for) because in the long-term, they'll give that $ back to the 'system'....
it's okay to give them the same service (for free) as those who paid?
LIB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They'll give it back? They could just take the house and it wouldn't make a world of difference to him as he would have lost it in the fire. They'd actually make money selling it.
CAPITALISM wins.
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They'll give it back? They could just take the house and it wouldn't make a world of difference to him as he would have lost it in the fire. They'd actually make money selling it.
CAPITALISM wins.
I see.
So the govt should force services upon people who won't purchase it for 20 cents a day - and take their home for it?
LMAO.... the lib bullshit is awesome here. I'm saying you let the mofo burn. Other "conservatives" say it's okay to give services they didn't pay for (that others did), but you should confiscate their house for it.
Imagine losing your house because they put out a small kitchen fire and you coudln't pay the bill!!
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I see.
So the govt should force services upon people who won't purchase it for 20 cents a day - and take their home for it?
LMAO.... the lib bullshit is awesome here. I'm saying you let the mofo burn. Other "conservatives" say it's okay to give services they didn't pay for (that others did), but you should confiscate their house for it.
Imagine losing your house because they put out a small kitchen fire and you coudln't pay the bill!!
Yawn. Didn't see anyone crying when the government was going to slap the preacher doing the koran burning on 9/11 with a $50k+ security bill even though he didn't request any police presence. Why is this different? Now you're up in arms about the government sticking its nose in things yet you didn't give two shits about that. Talk about being selective. ::)
Oh, and in regard to forcing services on people who won't pay 20 cents a day, how's his home doing now? He's still got it, right? LOL.
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Yawn. Didn't see anyone crying when the government was going to slap the preacher doing the koran burning on 9/11 with a $50k+ security bill even though he didn't request any police presence. Why is this different? Now you're up in arms about the government sticking its nose in things yet you didn't give two shits about that. Talk about being selective. ::)
dont call 240 out on his hypocrisey...
at least he continually contradicts himself with one account instead of others that have gimmicks to do so :D
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dont call 240 out on his hypocrisey...
at least he continually contradicts himself with one account instead of others that have gimmicks to do so :D
His "big picture" arguments that try to corner people by derailing the thread from talk about one topic and changing it into a debate on all services are hilariously dumb.
This guy said he'd pay whatever to have his house saved. They save the house, hit him with the cleanup bill. If not, they take the house and sell it, turning a profit even. Capitalism wins.
Socialism? Not even relevant here. It's only being brought up because 240 and co. are ignoring the fact that the guy asked for them to save the house at any cost and are instead claiming that saving it would have meant the "government was forcing services on him". ::)
Horrible, horrible attempt at spinning going on here.
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LOL poor 333386. He's never gonna live this down. :D
Live what down?
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Live what down?
Your liberal, socialist, commie-like inclinations. Deep down, you're just a closet commie aren't you? ;)
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Your liberal, socialist, commie-like inclinations. Deep down, you're just a closet commie aren't you? ;)
Yeah, that's me - Chairman Wop
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If they put out the fire anyway - almost NOBODY in town pays it next year.
If they let this house burn - almost EVERYONE pays it next year.
I'm still laughing at "if you give him a service he didn't pay for, he'll pay taxes to make it up".... hahaha brutal socialist logic bro
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The Sad thing is the Guy in the video i posted looks better than you, and he doesn't even train.. ;D
Imagine?You cant unrack 810lbs or unrack 605 in the bench.ANYTIME you want to put up your pics against mine let me know puke.Havent we gone through this before with you posting as another gimmick?You are owned everytime.Im MUCH better built then you,MUCH stronger then you,make more money then you,have a nicer house then you,my kid could beat the shit out of your kid and you as well.Your a loser and a fool.Do a google search on my name,then do one on your real name see what you come up with.Your a nobody.
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You are a simple minded spook and a moron.
Pretty typical though for a black idiot
Your a typical black idiot who thinks everything in the world is free.
GET OFF THE F'N INTERNET AND GET A JOB SPOOK!
holy shit dude.
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If they put out the fire anyway - almost NOBODY in town pays it next year.
If they let this house burn - almost EVERYONE pays it next year.
I'm still laughing at "if you give him a service he didn't pay for, he'll pay taxes to make it up".... hahaha brutal socialist logic bro
240 - I believe in porportionality. The guy totally screwed up and is a complete idiot, but i don't believe in such draconian penalties for minor crap like not paying a $75 fee.
Its the same as people supporting ZERO TOLERANCE laws where a boy scout gets expelled from school for have a swiss army knife in show & tell.
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If they put out the fire anyway - almost NOBODY in town pays it next year.
If they let this house burn - almost EVERYONE pays it next year.
I'm still laughing at "if you give him a service he didn't pay for, he'll pay taxes to make it up".... hahaha brutal socialist logic bro
You're really making a fool of yourself here. I do love that you're conveniently ignoring that he said he would pay any cost for them to put the fire out and instead are claiming that them putting it out would be tantamount to "forcing services down his throat".
Troll.
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You're really making a fool of yourself here. I do love that you're conveniently ignoring that he said he would pay any cost for them to put the fire out and instead are claiming that them putting it out would be tantamount to "forcing services down his throat".
Troll.
But you cant get house insurance while your house is burning down.THATS the point of insurance.The 75 dollars was an insurance that the firefighters would put a fire out.If you didnt pay you knew they werent going to put it out.This is like Obama care is going to be.You just dont buy insurance,pay a fine,THEN when you get cancer you call and get insurance.Meanwhile everyone else has been paying all along.Is that fair.
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But you cant get house insurance while your house is burning down.THATS the point of insurance.The 75 dollars was an insurance that the firefighters would put a fire out.If you didnt pay you knew they werent going to put it out.This is like Obama care is going to be.You just dont buy insurance,pay a fine,THEN when you get cancer you call and get insurance.Meanwhile everyone else has been paying all along.Is that fair.
Who said to charge him $75? They could have charged him the cost of putting the fire out and then fined him on top of it. I guarantee everyone would be paying their $75 next year if they saw him get hit with a $20k bill.
Socialism has nothing to do with this issue and it's just 240 playing games.
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But you cant get house insurance while your house is burning down.THATS the point of insurance.The 75 dollars was an insurance that the firefighters would put a fire out.If you didnt pay you knew they werent going to put it out.This is like Obama care is going to be.You just dont buy insurance,pay a fine,THEN when you get cancer you call and get insurance.Meanwhile everyone else has been paying all along.Is that fair.
No its not fair, and the guy was an absolute jerk for not paying - but the guy was willing to pay whatever the cost was to save his house at the time, even if it was 10k, 15k whatsoever, so they could have helped him out here and charged him the actual amount.
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Simple minded Queen Mimnaugh strikes again. Lets say this persons house was in a densely wooded area and the fire department refused as they did...and because of that the woods caught fire which races out of control and instead of just his house burning down...THE WHOLE COMMUNITY BURNS DOWN along with power lines, phone lines, cable lines not to mention the loss of many lives as is seen in the raging fires in California. The cost involved in repairing and restoring the whole community would run into the MILLIONS all for the sake of 75 dollars??? Does that even make sense? Also what are the residents paying local and state taxes for? Isn't the taxes for the police and fire department?
I would like to know how the insurenace company is going to handle this and what legal rights and law suits he may be entitled to. As it stands the fire departments refusal to put out the fire and teh subsequent fire on someone elses property will give the insurance company grounds NOT to pay out on policies, because it was a preventable situation had the fire department showed up when called. Now the town will be sued by the property owner for the damage, which will cost way more than 75 dollars.
CAPITALISM AT ITS FINEST...
What a simple minded fool you are.Was there woods next door?Did you read the article?The house next door was going to catch fire they put it out.Do you know why?Because they paid the 75 dollars.So,your simple minded stretch of a theory holds no water.The guy didnt pay,he was told id he didnt his house would not be put out,he decided to chance it,it burned to the ground.The guy next door was responsible,paid the money,they put his fire out.Those are the facts.Calling me names and coming up with wid scenerios dont change the facts.So,as usual you fail!!!
Not a surprsise though that you would think the guy deserved something for nothing.Isnt that your peoples entire existance?
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No its not fair, and the guy was an absolute jerk for not paying - but the guy was willing to pay whatever the cost was to save his house at the time, even if it was 10k, 15k whatsoever, so they could have helped him out here and charged him the actual amount.
and what'll happen?
you'll whip out paperwork WHILE THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE and the guy will sign anything in the heat of the moment.
Then his lawyer will argue he didn't have time to review the document, etc.
BILLY is right here. the guy bought newports and mountain dew with that 20 cents per day, and just figured someone else would take care of it for him. This is capitalism at its finest.
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and what'll happen?
you'll whip out paperwork WHILE THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE and the guy will sign anything in the heat of the moment.
Then his lawyer will argue he didn't have time to review the document, etc.
BILLY is right here. the guy bought newports and mountain dew with that 20 cents per day, and just figured someone else would take care of it for him. This is capitalism at its finest.
You throw a mechanic's lien on the house for the value of the services and sue to foreclose on the lien if he doesnt pay. This is not complicated 240.
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and what'll happen?
you'll whip out paperwork WHILE THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE and the guy will sign anything in the heat of the moment.
Then his lawyer will argue he didn't have time to review the document, etc.
Then you take his house. Why is this hard to comprehend? Would that be evil? No, because he'd lose the house if it burnt down anyway. In-fact, when they take it and sell it, the town actually makes money off it.
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You throw a mechanic's lien on the house for the value of the services and sue to foreclose on the lien if he doesnt pay. This is not complicated 240.
youre a lawyer.
do you think a contract signed WHILE THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE might be viewed as signing under distress/duress? A guy will sign away his house title for a ride to the hospital when he's bleeding... doesn't mean the cabbie actually gets to keep his house for giving him the ride. Come on, I was pre-law for like 9 months in college, you have the damn degree.
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youre a lawyer.
do you think a contract signed WHILE THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE might be viewed as signing under distress/duress? A guy will sign away his house title for a ride to the hospital when he's bleeding... doesn't mean the cabbie actually gets to keep his house for giving him the ride. Come on, I was pre-law for like 9 months in college, you have the damn degree.
You dont need a written contract for it to be binding when there are witnesses present contract law wise.
And any time someone does work on a home, they are entitled to put a lien on the house for the value of the services rendered on a quantum meriut basis.
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You dont need a written contract for it to be binding when there are witnesses present contract law wise.
And any time someone does work on a home, they are entitled to put a lien on the house for the value of the services rendered on a quantum meriut basis.
Duress occurs when a person is influenced to sign a contract under pressure. Typical examples of duress include threats to personal liberty, threats of actual violence, and excessive economic pressure. If you sign a contract under duress, the court may find the entire contract invalid.
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Duress occurs when a person is influenced to sign a contract under pressure. Typical examples of duress include threats to personal liberty, threats of actual violence, and excessive economic pressure. If you sign a contract under duress, the court may find the entire contract invalid.
Did you read my second sentence?
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Did you read my second sentence?
yes, but a guy can't just decide to 'do work on your home' without your consent.
and consent, in this case, comes at 3 am as a guy stumbles to read a 30-page contract in the dark as his family screams, his car explodes, his house burns, and his dogs are missing. he'll sign ANYTHING under such duress.
it's so funny... you took this position but I think you want out of it lol... Dude chose not to pay for a service - he needed the service and didn't get it. You're looking to try to make it right here - it's already right! he CHOSE to use that $75 for other things. It's HIS CHOICE.
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yes, but a guy can't just decide to 'do work on your home' without your consent.
and consent, in this case, comes at 3 am as a guy stumbles to read a 30-page contract in the dark as his family screams, his car explodes, his house burns, and his dogs are missing. he'll sign ANYTHING under such duress.
it's so funny... you took this position but I think you want out of it lol... Dude chose not to pay for a service - he needed the service and didn't get it. You're looking to try to make it right here - it's already right! he CHOSE to use that $75 for other things. It's HIS CHOICE.
And he decided that he would pay for the service at the time at whatever cost and they refused to service it.
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And he decided that he would pay for the service at the time at whatever cost and they refused to service it.
It's not one of those services you can pay for ONLY WHEN YOU NEED IT.
What would be the point of that? It costs WAY more than $75 for the entire truck and dept to come out and put out the fire. They offset the 1000s it costs for his fire, with the $75s collected from all the other people they didn't have to deal with fires for.
Dude didn't pay. It's that simple. Should we force insurance companies to issues hurricane coverage when the storm is 24 hours away? Hey, maybe we should force medical insurance companies to give insurance to ppl with pre-existing conditions then? You've already voted for Romney and denied you ever heard of romneycare, you might as well get on board with FireCare too ;)
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It's not one of those services you can pay for ONLY WHEN YOU NEED IT.
What would be the point of that? It costs WAY more than $75 for the entire truck and dept to come out and put out the fire. They offset the 1000s it costs for his fire, with the $75s collected from all the other people they didn't have to deal with fires for.
Dude didn't pay. It's that simple. Should we force insurance companies to issues hurricane coverage when the storm is 24 hours away? Hey, maybe we should force medical insurance companies to give insurance to ppl with pre-existing conditions then? You've already voted for Romney and denied you ever heard of romneycare, you might as well get on board with FireCare too ;)
Yawn - give me a break. Lets not make this more than it was. This could have been readily and easily dealt with than letting the guys house burn down.
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Hillbillies, go figure.
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Yawn - give me a break. Lets not make this more than it was. This could have been readily and easily dealt with than letting the guys house burn down.
we should have given him a service that everyone else paid for?
Hey, I don't have $ for lunch, but my tummy's gonna growl unless your store gives me free food...
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we should have given him a service that everyone else paid for?
Hey, I don't have $ for lunch, but my tummy's gonna growl unless your store gives me free food...
Being hungry and being five 5 minutes from death are two different things and if the store owner did not give you a bite to eat to save your life than that would be completely immoral and a scumbag thing to do.
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Yawn - give me a break. Lets not make this more than it was. This could have been readily and easily dealt with than letting the guys house burn down.
Normally you and I are on the same page,but here we disagree.The rest of the neighborhood paid the money.Why should a free loader ,who refuses to pay for the fire service be taken care of by the others?Why is it fair for the guy who has a house that never catches fire to pay 75 dollars for 40 years and never once has he collected on it?
I understand the guys house burning to the ground is drastic,but you need to draw a line in the sand.If you are told "if you dont pay we arent coming" then thats on you.If this guys house had never caught fire and he never paid for 40 years,how is that fair to the guy who did pay for 40 years and everyone else that did pay?
This is the entire problem with the country.Some are paying,others are collecting.This case is Obamas America in a nut shell.The irresponsible,lazy ass,thought he could game the system while the others followed the rules and did the right thing.Finally the bad guy got what he deserved.
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Normally you and I are on the same page,but here we disagree.The rest of the neighborhood paid the money.Why should a free loader ,who refuses to pay for the fire service be taken care of by the others?Why is it fair for the guy who has a house that never catches fire to pay 75 dollars for 40 years and never once has he collected on it?
I understand the guys house burning to the ground is drastic,but you need to draw a line in the sand.If you are told "if you dont pay we arent coming" then thats on you.If this guys house had never caught fire and he never paid for 40 years,how is that fair to the guy who did pay for 40 years and everyone else that did pay?
This is the entire problem with the country.Some are paying,others are collecting.This case is Obamas America in a nut shell.The irresponsible,lazy ass,thought he could game the system while the others followed the rules and did the right thing.Finally the bad guy got what he deserved.
What if the guy sent in the check and the it was never applied correctly by the clerk in the govt and they told the FD that they guy never paid when in fact he did?
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What if the guy sent in the check and the it was never applied correctly by the clerk in the govt and they told the FD that they guy never paid when in fact he did?
But thats not what happened.We can conjure up anything we want but the facts here are he refused to pay.
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But thats not what happened.We can conjure up anything we want but the facts here are he refused to pay.
I know that - but these things are not always black and white. i know the guy is a jerk for not paying and am in agreement 100% on that.
How about this - lets say someone is behind on their property taxes. They call 911 and report a home invasion. Should the cops call the tax department to see if he is current on his property taxes before responding?
What about a paramedic in the same circumstance? Lets say the paramedic showed up and the guy was dying in the street and the EMT had the paddles ready go etc etc, and then got a call from the tax assessor thatt he guy was behind in the taxes, should the EMT not treat the guy?
i'm just saying - I agree the guy committed a horrible lapse of judgement - but just think the end result is a bit dramatic fot eh offense.
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Not a surprsise though that you would think the guy deserved something for nothing.Isnt that your peoples entire existance?
yeah because thats how these people got along..they all got something for nothing. Thats their existance
Kenneth I. Chenault
Ann M. Fudge
Alwin Lewis
Renetta McCann
Clarence Otis, Jr
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What a simple minded fool you are.Was there woods next door?Did you read the article?The house next door was going to catch fire they put it out.Do you know why?Because they paid the 75 dollars.So,your simple minded stretch of a theory holds no water.The guy didnt pay,he was told id he didnt his house would not be put out,he decided to chance it,it burned to the ground.The guy next door was responsible,paid the money,they put his fire out.Those are the facts.Calling me names and coming up with wid scenerios dont change the facts.So,as usual you fail!!!
Not a surprsise though that you would think the guy deserved something for nothing.Isnt that your peoples entire existance?
And people thought it impossible that a somewhat human could DEVOLVE past the point of same gender loving neanderthal...You Queen Mimnaugh have managed to accomplish that.
Queenie try reading my post again...it is written as a HYPOTHETICAL!!!! I know your drug taking and illegal activities has slowed what few brain cells you have down to a crawl, but try and think first before your fingers react on the keyboard.
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obama did it
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obama did it
Nah, it's still Bush's fault.
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Nah, it's still Bush's fault.
While we are at it, why not just blame Chester Arthur or James Madison?
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Nah, it's still Bush's fault.
nope...Obama did it...his administration is in, so anything bad that happens in the history of the earth..its his fault..Damn cap and trade
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While we are at it, why not just blame Chester Arthur or James Madison?
Clearly, it's Grover Clevelands fault, 33.
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nope...Obama did it...his administration is in, so anything bad that happens in the history of the earth..its his fault..Damn cap and trade
mal - have you ever looked into the details of Cap & Trade?
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And people thought it impossible that a somewhat human could DEVOLVE past the point of same gender loving neanderthal...You Queen Mimnaugh have managed to accomplish that.
Queenie try reading my post again...it is written as a HYPOTHETICAL!!!! I know your drug taking and illegal activities has slowed what few brain cells you have down to a crawl, but try and think first before your fingers react on the keyboard.
To Mal,you can site 100 examples I give you Detroit,Bed Stye NY ,The 9th ward in New Orleans.Everywhere blacks live and the area is run by libs,crime,poverty and squaller follow.Everyone waiting for a government handout.
Hey little brain.I deal in FACTS!!Not CT or hypotheticals,in facts.This is your whole problem.Your life is a hypothetical ewhile the rest of us are actually living and working and paying your bills because your too dam lazy to get off your black ass and work.
The only thing that matters here are facts.He was told if he didnt pay the firefighters wouldnt come,he didnt pay,they let the house burned.Cry about it if you want,bitch about it piss about it moan about it,the facts are the lazy ass free loader got what he deserved.FINALLY in America the free loader got crapped on,fu## him and f##k you.
By the way sppok,if you ever called me a queen to my face Id beat the black right off of you.Id beat you like a runaway slave.
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What if the guy paid that week, and the check did not clear the bank yet?
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What if the guy paid that week, and the check did not clear the bank yet?
Again with these hypotheticals.What if you paid your car insurance at the last minute,it got lost in the mail and you got in an accident.Think your insurance is going to cover you if they never get that check?
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Again with these hypotheticals.What if you paid your car insurance at the last minute,it got lost in the mail and you got in an accident.Think your insurance is going to cover you if they never get that check?
I'm just saying, there are many things that could have led the FD to think the guy never paid when he did, and their letting the house burn down is so dramatic as to that its not exactly something you say "oops my bad"
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Again with these hypotheticals.What if you paid your car insurance at the last minute,it got lost in the mail and you got in an accident.Think your insurance is going to cover you if they never get that check?
They probably would as they would follow up with you not paying - send you a few notices, warnings, etc. If they put out the fire and then charged the guy, they're not really losing anything, but I see your point about everybody else refusing to pay then. Sounds like they just need to change the whole system.
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WTF already!?!?!?! Just put out the damn fire...This is dumb
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You mean like when a insurance company pulls funding hours before a patient is about to go into surgery?
Bingo.
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Look it's clear the solution here. The FD, Police, Paramedics etc are services for the commons. Paid for by taxes and helped funded in some areas by extra 'fees'. However, because they are in fact services for all, the denial of them to anyone for any reason is unquestionably wrong. Whether that person is late in payment of taxes or is up to date. To start denial of common services based on non payment is a slope towards a country i sure as sh*t would not want to live in.
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WTF already!?!?!?! Just put out the damn fire...This is dumb
WTF already!?!?!?!Just pay the damm fee...this is dumb.
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In the purest form of communism, all people hold all land, factories and so on in trust, as it were. In this way, all goods are shared ...
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In the purest form of communism, all people hold all land, factories and so on in trust, as it were. In this way, all goods are shared ...
Can i share your sister?
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Can i share your sister?
nah, she doesnt date fat guys
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Can i share your sister?
racist family commie post reported
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nah, she doesnt date fat guys
At a weight of 205 5 8 did 315 for 10 on flat bench, 315 x 7 on incline, can do standing reps of 225 overhead. etc etc.
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At a weight of 205 5 8 did 315 for 10 on flat bench, 315 x 7 on incline, can do standing reps of 225 overhead. etc etc.
sorry, that big head screams obesity at 3% body fat. ;D
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sorry, that big head screams obesity at 3% body fat. ;D
I'm not saying I have 3% bf - but am natural and stronger than most on roids at same bodyweight.
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PAY THE FREAKING MONEY STUPID F'N FREELOADER!!!!The fire department should have let it burn as they did.If they put it out the next guy wouldnt have paid either,eventually no one would pay and the program goes under.PAY YOUR FREAKING BILLS!
Im also glad they made sure to put out the fire of the guys house who did pay.That should be a good lesson for the next guy who wont pay.The health care should be just like this,no insurance,no money,you die on the street motherf##ker.
x2! I love this story. Pay the bill or pay the price. It’s that simple. Are you listening Methyl Mike? ???
I suspect everyone in that county or state will now stay current on his or her fire protection fee.
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x2! I love this story. Pay the bill or pay the price. It’s that simple. Are you listening Methyl Mike? ???
I suspect everyone in that county or state will now stay current on his or her fire protection fee.
I would have saved the house and sent out a notice to all homeowners of the incident of the next time. my guess is that this is extremely rare and there are little or no fires at all. The guy should have paid, but they should not have compounded his idiocy in not paying ther $75 with letting the house burn down.
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I would have saved the house and sent out a notice to all homeowners of the incident of the next time. my guess is that this is extremely rare and there are little or no fires at all. The guy should have paid, but they should not have compounded his idiocy in not paying ther $75 with letting the house burn down.
IMAGINE if a firefighter had DIED - in a house that didn't even pay for that service.
A fool and his $ are soon parted - in this case, he was foolish not to pay fireCare bill.
I think if we could redo this thread, you'd take another position, 33... but you don't want to be a flipflopper.
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His "big picture" arguments that try to corner people by derailing the thread from talk about one topic and changing it into a debate on all services are hilariously dumb.
This guy said he'd pay whatever to have his house saved. They save the house, hit him with the cleanup bill. If not, they take the house and sell it, turning a profit even. Capitalism wins.
Socialism? Not even relevant here. It's only being brought up because 240 and co. are ignoring the fact that the guy asked for them to save the house at any cost and are instead claiming that saving it would have meant the "government was forcing services on him". ::)
Horrible, horrible attempt at spinning going on here.
I agree with this.
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For those who think the fire fighters should have saved his house I have one narrow question: would you risk your life fighting a fire for someone who did not pay the fire protection fee? ???
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For those who think the fire fighters should have saved his house I have one narrow question: would you risk your life fighting a fire for someone who did not pay the fire protection fee? ???
Yes. Absolutely. Save the house. Bill the owner for the cost.
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For those who think the fire fighters should have saved his house I have one narrow question: would you risk your life fighting a fire for someone who did not pay the fire protection fee? ???
Like I posed the question before, its not so simple as that. What if the guy actually paid but that the payment was lost or not applied correctly?
I'm sorry - throwing the fire hoses on the house to stop the fire was not such a monumental thing here that they could not have helped him out.
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Yes. Absolutely. Save the house. Bill the owner for the cost.
I am not trying to be confrontational, but I do not believe you. It is easy to say “yes” when you are sitting comfortably in front of your monitor, but I do not believe any rational person, a person with a family to support for example, would risk his life for someone who declined to pay the fire protection fee. Fire fighters go through extensive, grueling training… they have felt the heat of real flames… burns… and lost colleagues in fires.
The option of “billing him after the fact” is not much motivation go to into a fire knowing that you might not come out of it alive.
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Yes. Absolutely. Save the house. Bill the owner for the cost.
But you have Jesus behind you; most firefighters don't.
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The option of “billing him after the fact” is not much motivation go to into a fire knowing that you might not come out of it alive.
Shouldnt even enter a firefighters head...Firefighters shouldnt be thinkin about "hmm i wonder if he paid his $75 fee.." no they put out fire...see a fire..put the shit out...do the bullshit paper work later
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I am not trying to be confrontational, but I do not believe you. It is easy to say “yes” when you are sitting comfortably in front of your monitor, but I do not believe any rational person, a person with a family to support for example, would risk his life for someone who declined to pay the fire protection fee. Fire fighters go through extensive, grueling training… they have felt the heat of real flames… burns… and lost colleagues in fires.
The option of “billing him after the fact” is not much motivation go to into a fire knowing that you might not come out of it alive.
Well, that's your opinion. I stand by mine. I think people like police officers and fire fighters do their jobs in large part because they are public servants. I think this situation is out of the ordinary. It is absurd to think that fire fighters maintain some kind of list, receive an emergency call, check their list to ensure the person paid, and only respond to the emergency if the bill is current. Makes absolutely no sense.
Billing after the fact isn't the motivation to put out the fire. They should put out the fire because it's the right thing to do. Billing the person is necessary to ensure everyone doesn't stop paying the fee. The owner would pay a lot more than $75 for their services.
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But you have Jesus behind you; most firefighters don't.
::)
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Shouldnt even enter a firefighters head...Firefighters shouldnt be thinkin about "hmm i wonder if he paid his $75 fee.." no they put out fire...see a fire..put the shit out...do the bullshit paper work later
Yeah. This.
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Shouldnt even enter a firefighters head...Firefighters shouldnt be thinkin about "hmm i wonder if he paid his $75 fee.." no they put out fire...see a fire..put the shit out...do the bullshit paper work later
No,they didnt even go out to the guys house because the guy was blacklisted.They went out to the neighbors house when his house was going to burn.Easy way to avoid this,pay the freaking money.So,your saying the guy next door should pay,but its ok this guy doesnt,why would anyone pay then?.If everyone didnt pay,the service is over.They got the service because everyone agreed to pay.
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PAY THE FREAKING MONEY STUPID F'N FREELOADER!!!!The
Woah...A word from the religious right
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Wasn't the deal that the only reason they responded was when the fire threatened to spread to the neighbors? If so, they probably just received a call and when the dispatch checked the address and saw he had not paid the $75 fee they didn't respond. Only once the guy who had coverage next door called did they go out and respond. Is that correct?
I think the bigger issue would need more questions, for example have people commonly not paid the fee but expected the fire put out anyway? Thereby putting a huge strain on the fire dept to even function. Also, even IF they attempted to put the fire out, that doesn't guarantee it would have saved the house, pets, etc... many fires are just barely contained at best and especially in rural communites where it takes a long time to respond.
but as always, I'm sure this will get massive natl airplay instead of things that actually affect all of us like, economy, etc...
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Woah...A word from the religious right
Ummm,Im not religious,dont know where you got that from.
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Here is some more follow up information on the whole fire department watching this man's house burn down. I can guarantee you this county will be SUED TO NO END. Now it is revealed the guy has paid the fee for years and this year he somehow overlooked it and because of this his house was allowed to burn. I would like to know how much money raised every year in these fees? Who is getting these fees? Where do these fees go? Did the 911 operator take the time to look up whether or not a person has paid the fee before sending out a truck and do these firemen not take into consideration that these people are THEIR NEIGHBORS whom they have known for years?
Rural Tennessee fire sparks conservative ideological debate
By Brett Michael Dykes
(http://l.yimg.com/lk/api/res/1.2/Vw.k.YNQCC0P6AiAjZxNBA--/YXBwaWQ9eW1lZGlhO2g9MjAwO3c9MzAw/http://mit.zenfs.com/5/2010/10/103957694.jpg)
Just about anything can be fodder for an ideological dispute these days. Just consider news of the recent fire at Gene Cranick's home in Obion County, Tenn.
Here's the short version of what happened: In rural Obion County, homeowners must pay $75 annually for fire protection services from the nearby city of South Fulton. If they don't pay the fee and their home catches fire, tough luck -- even if firefighters are positioned just outside the home with hoses at the ready.
Gene Cranick found this out the hard way.
When Cranick's house caught fire last week, and he couldn't contain the blaze with garden hoses, he called 911. During the emergency call, he offered to pay all expenses related to the Fire Department's defense of his home, but the South Fulton firefighters refused to do anything.
VIDEO http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/22289135
They did, however, come out when Cranick's neighbor -- who'd already paid the fee -- called 911 because he worried that the fire might spread to his property. Once they arrived, members of the South Fulton department stood by and watched Cranick's home burn; they sprang into action only when the fire reached the neighbor's property.
"I hadn't paid my $75 and that's what they want, $75, and they don't care how much it burned down," Gene Cranick told WPSD, an NBC affiliate in Kentucky. "I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong."
The incident has sparked a debate in many corners of the Web. Writers for the National Review, arguably the nation's most influential right-leaning voice, have seized on the episode to discuss the relative merits of compassionate conservatism versus a hard-line libertarianism. (See their arguments here, here, here, here and here.)
Daniel Foster, a self-described "conservative with fairly libertarian leanings" who writes for the magazine, took issue with the county's laissez-faire approach to firefighting, calling it "a kind of government for which I would not sign up."
"What moral theory allows these firefighters (admittedly acting under orders) to watch this house burn to the ground when 1) they have already responded to the scene; 2) they have the means to stop it ready at hand; 3) they have a reasonable expectation to be compensated for their trouble?" Foster wrote.
But Foster's colleague Kevin Williamson took the opposite view. Cranick's fellow residents in the rural stretches of Obion County had no fire protection until the county established the $75 fee in 1990. As Williamson explained: "The South Fulton fire department is being treated as though it has done something wrong, rather than having gone out of its way to make services available to people who did not have them before. The world is full of jerks, freeloaders, and ingrates — and the problems they create for themselves are their own. These free-riders have no more right to South Fulton's firefighting services than people in Muleshoe, Texas, have to those of NYPD detectives."
Liberals are pouncing on the Cranick fire as an illustration of what they take to be the callous indifference of a market regime that rewards privileged interests over the concerns of ordinary Americans.
"The case perfectly demonstrated conservative ideology, which is based around the idea of the on-your-own society and informs a policy agenda that primarily serves the well-off and privileged," Think Progress' Zaid Jilani wrote in a response to the National Review writers. "It has been 28 years since conservative historian Doug Wead first coined the term 'compassionate conservative.' It now appears that if any such philosophy ever existed, it has few adherents in the modern conservative movement."
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Like I posed the question before, its not so simple as that. What if the guy actually paid but that the payment was lost or not applied correctly?
I'm sorry - throwing the fire hoses on the house to stop the fire was not such a monumental thing here that they could not have helped him out.
i was totaly going to say that. the county is setting themselves up for a ridiculously large lawsuit if they keep this up. i don't necessarily agree that people who don't pay deserve help but sooner or later they are going to ignore someone who actually did pay. and then they're fucked.
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Here is some more follow up information on the whole fire department watching this man's house burn down. I can guarantee you this county will be SUED TO NO END. Now it is revealed the guy has paid the fee for years and this year he somehow overlooked it and because of this his house was allowed to burn. I would like to know how much money raised every year in these fees? Who is getting these fees? Where do these fees go? Did the 911 operator take the time to look up whether or not a person has paid the fee before sending out a truck and do these firemen not take into consideration that these people are THEIR NEIGHBORS whom they have known for years?
Rural Tennessee fire sparks conservative ideological debate
By Brett Michael Dykes
(http://l.yimg.com/lk/api/res/1.2/Vw.k.YNQCC0P6AiAjZxNBA--/YXBwaWQ9eW1lZGlhO2g9MjAwO3c9MzAw/http://mit.zenfs.com/5/2010/10/103957694.jpg)
Just about anything can be fodder for an ideological dispute these days. Just consider news of the recent fire at Gene Cranick's home in Obion County, Tenn.
Here's the short version of what happened: In rural Obion County, homeowners must pay $75 annually for fire protection services from the nearby city of South Fulton. If they don't pay the fee and their home catches fire, tough luck -- even if firefighters are positioned just outside the home with hoses at the ready.
Gene Cranick found this out the hard way.
When Cranick's house caught fire last week, and he couldn't contain the blaze with garden hoses, he called 911. During the emergency call, he offered to pay all expenses related to the Fire Department's defense of his home, but the South Fulton firefighters refused to do anything.
VIDEO http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/22289135
They did, however, come out when Cranick's neighbor -- who'd already paid the fee -- called 911 because he worried that the fire might spread to his property. Once they arrived, members of the South Fulton department stood by and watched Cranick's home burn; they sprang into action only when the fire reached the neighbor's property.
"I hadn't paid my $75 and that's what they want, $75, and they don't care how much it burned down," Gene Cranick told WPSD, an NBC affiliate in Kentucky. "I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong."
The incident has sparked a debate in many corners of the Web. Writers for the National Review, arguably the nation's most influential right-leaning voice, have seized on the episode to discuss the relative merits of compassionate conservatism versus a hard-line libertarianism. (See their arguments here, here, here, here and here.)
Daniel Foster, a self-described "conservative with fairly libertarian leanings" who writes for the magazine, took issue with the county's laissez-faire approach to firefighting, calling it "a kind of government for which I would not sign up."
"What moral theory allows these firefighters (admittedly acting under orders) to watch this house burn to the ground when 1) they have already responded to the scene; 2) they have the means to stop it ready at hand; 3) they have a reasonable expectation to be compensated for their trouble?" Foster wrote.
But Foster's colleague Kevin Williamson took the opposite view. Cranick's fellow residents in the rural stretches of Obion County had no fire protection until the county established the $75 fee in 1990. As Williamson explained: "The South Fulton fire department is being treated as though it has done something wrong, rather than having gone out of its way to make services available to people who did not have them before. The world is full of jerks, freeloaders, and ingrates — and the problems they create for themselves are their own. These free-riders have no more right to South Fulton's firefighting services than people in Muleshoe, Texas, have to those of NYPD detectives."
Liberals are pouncing on the Cranick fire as an illustration of what they take to be the callous indifference of a market regime that rewards privileged interests over the concerns of ordinary Americans.
"The case perfectly demonstrated conservative ideology, which is based around the idea of the on-your-own society and informs a policy agenda that primarily serves the well-off and privileged," Think Progress' Zaid Jilani wrote in a response to the National Review writers. "It has been 28 years since conservative historian Doug Wead first coined the term 'compassionate conservative.' It now appears that if any such philosophy ever existed, it has few adherents in the modern conservative movement."
Here is the problem.If you "overlook" paying your health insurance,car insurance,life insurance,your dropped immeadiately!!!If your a day late on car insurance and get into an accident your screwed.Sorry,there is no such thing as overlooking bills and getting away with it. If you overlook paying your life insurance after paying it for 50 years and if your a day late and die that day,think they will pay off?This is reality!!This guy will go to court and lose ESPECIALLY if those who paid are on the jury.
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And now the tax assessor will have to declare this property a total lose and vacant of building and lose thousands in assessable value, all over $75.
This was penny wise and dollar foolish.
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Here is the problem.If you "overlook" paying your health insurance,car insurance,life insurance,your dropped immeadiately!!!If your a day late on car insurance and get into an accident your screwed.Sorry,there is no such thing as overlooking bills and getting away with it. If you overlook paying your life insurance after paying it for 50 years and if your a day late and die that day,think they will pay off?This is reality!!This guy will go to court and lose ESPECIALLY if those who paid are on the jury.
Could we be in any more agreement? I think this is a lovefest! Big hugz! :-*
Where is that non-bill paying Methyl Mike? ::)
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Here is the problem.If you "overlook" paying your health insurance,car insurance,life insurance,your dropped immeadiately!!!If your a day late on car insurance and get into an accident your screwed.Sorry,there is no such thing as overlooking bills and getting away with it. If you overlook paying your life insurance after paying it for 50 years and if your a day late and die that day,think they will pay off?This is reality!!This guy will go to court and lose ESPECIALLY if those who paid are on the jury.
good point. i think this is one of those issues where no one is wrong and everyone is wrong.
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I don't think the insurance example works. If you stop paying your insurance and show up at the ER with an emergency condition, the hospital must treat you. They can bill you and try and collect later, but anti-patient dumping laws require them to treat anyone who shows up at the ER with an emergency condition, regardless of insurance and/or an ability to pay.
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I don't think the insurance example works. If you stop paying your insurance and show up at the ER with an emergency condition, the hospital must treat you. They can bill you and try and collect later, but anti-patient dumping laws require them to treat anyone who shows up at the ER with an emergency condition, regardless of insurance and/or an ability to pay.
true. but thats why we have a health insurance crisis right?
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Yeah. This.
;D
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good point. i think this is one of those issues where no one is wrong and everyone is wrong.
Wrong. The guy who failed to pay the bill... is wrong. >:(
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true. but thats why we have a health insurance crisis right?
Not that I'm aware of. I've never seen or heard that uninsured ER visits have caused a health insurance crisis.
Not sure I completely understand your question?
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Not that I'm aware of. I've never seen or heard that uninsured ER visits have caused a health insurance crisis.
Not sure I completely understand your question?
it's my understanding that a big part of the problem is that hospitals collect pennies on the dollar of the amounts that they bill. if someone is uninsured they just don't pay.
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it's my understanding that a big part of the problem is that hospitals collect pennies on the dollar of the amounts that they bill. if someone is uninsured they just don't pay.
True, they probably won't pay, but I think that's a different situation. If a person is just trying to get a routine appointment, preventive care, etc., the hospital won't treat them without insurance. That doesn't mean the person cannot get medical treatment someplace else, but I don't think that's related to ER visits.
Sounds like you're talking about insurance companies not reimbursing hospitals/doctors like they should.
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And now the tax assessor will have to declare this property a total lose and vacant of building and lose thousands in assessable value, all over $75.
This was penny wise and dollar foolish.
I dunno... the story has made national news. You can bet your ass, if any getbigger is suddenly asked for $75 for FireCare, we'll probably use our McGriddle $ on fire insurance, and pay it early too.
I'd be interested in how many notices he got in the mail. He "forgot"... I bet there were 3 or 5 notices.
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I dunno... the story has made national news. You can bet your ass, if any getbigger is suddenly asked for $75 for FireCare, we'll probably use our McGriddle $ on fire insurance, and pay it early too.
I'd be interested in how many notices he got in the mail. He "forgot"... I bet there were 3 or 5 notices.
Why are you doing fist pumps over obamacare going to people who never paid in anything but condeming this man as deserving the death penalty for failing to pay a 75 charge? ;D
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Why are you doing fist pumps over obamacare going to people who never paid in anything but condeming this man as deserving the death penalty for failing to pay a 75 charge? ;D
you must have missed the 17,000 times I said i'm against obamacare.
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Solution: Cut all federal, state and local aid to everyone who doesn't pay taxes. Also, cut all emergency services.
Result: Watch anarchy ensue.
Do you really think that a lesson is learned or a point is made by allowing someones house to burn down?
Many people do not buy medical insurance in this country until after they get sick. When they try to buy, does the insurance company say- "Tough luck, we won't take your money now, you can have your leg amuptated?"
Of course not. The person may have to pay more, but after the fact- and the hospital will never turn you away.
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HAHAHAHA
I love it. MSNBC's Keith Olbermann's #1 story tonight - How wrong it was for them not to put out the fire.
BILLY and I are on the wrong side of Olbermann on this one - but 333386 and he are in complete agreement. LOL... I guess if you argue long enough, you reach that point!
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HAHAHAHA
I love it. MSNBC's Keith Olbermann's #1 story tonight - How wrong it was for them not to put out the fire.
BILLY and I are on the wrong side of Olbermann on this one - but 333386 and he are in complete agreement. LOL... I guess if you argue long enough, you reach that point!
LOL - Glenn beck bashing the shit out of Olbermann and his "A la carte government" thinking.
Apparently, Beck also said he would let his neighbor's house down for $75. Link, anyone? I love it!!
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wait a sec, don't taxes pay for fire coverage? wtf is with the $75 fee?
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wait a sec, don't taxes pay for fire coverage? wtf is with the $75 fee?
No doubt I pay taxes for that shit.
Same as this loser in my subdivision who doesn't pay his assessment fees. The other neighbors have to pay his part of the fees to cover snow removal, road maintenance, etc. If he ever moves he will owe that money.
That douche deserved everything he got with his house burning down. Screw him and all the rest of these free loaders.
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No doubt I pay taxes for that shit.
Same as this loser in my subdivision who doesn't pay his assessment fees. The other neighbors have to pay his part of the fees to cover snow removal, road maintenance, etc. If he ever moves he will owe that money.
That douche deserved everything he got with his house burning down. Screw him and all the rest of these free loaders.
Beck agrees with you. Olbermann and 333386 disagree with you.
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I don't have an issue perse, but don't you think that it's a bit wasteful to let a entire house burn down over 75 bucks?
Just seems like something better could have been done.
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They HAD to let the house burn down. Its not just an issue over 75$. Its over 75$ times the amount of people that live there. Because that is the amount of people who wouldnt pay if they knew they could pay after the house burned down. Even if you charged a lot after the fact, you would still have a lot of poeple not pay because that is a risk a lot of people would take. How many people's houses catch fire? It just like insurance. Oh, that's right, I forgot. Some people in this board seem to think that you can have insurance if people buy it ownly when they get sick. Really, Im surprised at a lot of you in this thread.
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Sick fucking people in this thread. Sick fuckign rule abider protocol whores. Sometimes human decency should win out over pointless rules.
The majority of you are worthless in my opinion if you are willing to sit by and watch a man`s life go up in flames over a nonsensical matter of 75 dollars.
If not for the mans sake, at least for the animals inside.
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Sick fucking people in this thread. Sick fuckign rule abider protocol whores. Sometimes human decency should win out over pointless rules.
The majority of you are worthless in my opinion if you are willing to sit by and watch a man`s life go up in flames over a nonsensical matter of 75 dollars.
If not for the mans sake, at least for the animals inside.
you mean like when an intentionally blantant offensive mosque is put up near ground zero in a building acutally damaged by the events of 9/11?
of course not, not then right TA?
I agree they should have put the fire out and then charged him an outrageous sum. He doesnt pay taxes to this though so I can see why there are ppl out there who feel he shouldnt get something that he didnt pay for.
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you mean like when an intentionally blantant offensive mosque is put up near ground zero in a building acutally damaged by the events of 9/11?
of course not, not then right TA?
I agree they should have put the fire out and then charged him an outrageous sum. He doesnt pay taxes to this though so I can see why there are ppl out there who feel he shouldnt get something that he didnt pay for.
All churches of any religions should be turned into Bakeries, Restaurants, Museums, Gyms/Fitness Centers etc...
I would be happiest if not a single church, mosque or synagoguge was built from this day forth.
However, I believe the constitution is correct in allowing people to worship or not worship as they choose and location is irrelevant to me.
As an atheist I think all places of worship are pointless and/or useless. Only when the population stops believing in fairy tales and myth, superstition and embrace reason, Science and education will we rid ourselves of this nonsensical bullshit.
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They HAD to let the house burn down. Its not just an issue over 75$. Its over 75$ times the amount of people that live there. Because that is the amount of people who wouldnt pay if they knew they could pay after the house burned down. Even if you charged a lot after the fact, you would still have a lot of poeple not pay because that is a risk a lot of people would take. How many people's houses catch fire? It just like insurance. Oh, that's right, I forgot. Some people in this board seem to think that you can have insurance if people buy it ownly when they get sick. Really, Im surprised at a lot of you in this thread.
I agree. It wasn't just the $75 it was the fact they opted out of the contract with the department and chose not to pay unlike their neighbor. We say we want personal responsibility then we complain about the fire department when Joe Blow make the decision not to participate in the program. Having said that, I don't know what information the fire department had.. I know 911 here will ask, "Is there anyone in the house?" so maybe they knew no one was.. but IF it wasn't clear, then they should respond to protect life.. insure everyone is out.. but as far as the property and all the stuff, while it is tragic, they had no obligation to risk injury putting out the fire.
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I agree. It wasn't just the $75 it was the fact they opted out of the contract with the department and chose not to pay unlike their neighbor. We say we want personal responsibility then we complain about the fire department when Joe Blow make the decision not to participate in the program. Having said that, I don't know what information the fire department had.. I know 911 here will ask, "Is there anyone in the house?" so maybe they knew no one was.. but IF it wasn't clear, then they should respond to protect life.. insure everyone is out.. but as far as the property and all the stuff, while it is tragic, they had no obligation to risk injury putting out the fire.
Very clear and concise post.
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Guys lets say this occured:
Instead of fire, the town had a $75 fee for paramedic services. 911 got a call that a man was having a heart attack in the street. The emt shows up, calls the town tax clerk, and realizes the man never paid the fee of $75.
Would it be ok to let the man die in the street over $75?
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Guys lets say this occured:
Instead of fire, the town had a $75 fee for paramedic services. 911 got a call that a man was having a heart attack in the street. The emt shows up, calls the town tax clerk, and realizes the man never paid the fee of $75.
Would it be ok to let the man die in the street over $75?
I'd say no. Just like if there was a threat to human life in the house that was on fire, they should have at least attempted to save the person. Protection of life far outweighs protection of property, imo.
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You fucking people just LOVE to obey whatever the local, state or federal government tells you to do or tells you to pay. It makes you feel privileged doesn`t it. I personally think Conservatives LOVE taxes and LOVE paying them since they are the first to brag about doing so and they think it entitles them to treat all other people like shit (even if the other pay as well). They LOVE Bureaucracy, especially when it pits them against whatever adversary they choose at the moment on an illogical whim.
Human decency and wisdom (especially Utilitarian Wisdom) should always trump protocol.
Now here is a good video which illustrates my point:
Barry Schwartz makes a passionate call for practical wisdom as an antidote to a society gone mad with bureaucracy. He argues powerfully that rules often fail us, incentives often backfire, and practical, everyday wisdom will help rebuild our world.
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What i find ironic here is that many people get all pissed off when an Eagle Scout gets kicked out of school and expelled for having a swiss army knife with the eating utensils under ZERO TOLERANCE policies, yet are almost gleeful that this guys house got torched.
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TA, isn't one of your big things how certain entities are "socialist" in nature, ie: police depts, fire depts, military....and what "entitles" people to these things are there being a tax paying citizen? The moral side of the equation can't be used, as it would just depend on the individuals ethics. For example, what if a cop is called to an altercation between 2 drug dealers where they are firing shots at each other.....is he morally obligated to try to stop it? What if he doesn't know they are drug dealers and just look like a couple of teens?
You can't run these types of organizations based on moral relativism.....sorry.
I'll kick it up a notch.....I think the dipshits who wander off into the woods and get "lost" should have to pay every cent back that it takes to rescue them. Absolutely idiotic that taxpayers foot the bill for these people. Or perhaps they should purchase some type of insurance that covers it.
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TA, isn't one of your big things how certain entities are "socialist" in nature, ie: police depts, fire depts, military....and what "entitles" people to these things are there being a tax paying citizen? The moral side of the equation can't be used, as it would just depend on the individuals ethics. For example, what if a cop is called to an altercation between 2 drug dealers where they are firing shots at each other.....is he morally obligated to try to stop it? What if he doesn't know they are drug dealers and just look like a couple of teens?
You can't run these types of organizations based on moral relativism.....sorry.
I'll kick it up a notch.....I think the dipshits who wander off into the woods and get "lost" should have to pay every cent back that it takes to rescue them. Absolutely idiotic that taxpayers foot the bill for these people. Or perhaps they should purchase some type of insurance that covers it.
Yes, but they did not give this guy that chance, even though he offered to pay whatever it cost. They just ignored that and let it burn.
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Yes, but they did not give this guy that chance, even though he offered to pay whatever it cost. They just ignored that and let it burn.
But you know there is a difference between paying a fee, which is what he offered, and paying insurance premiums. Premiums being designed to keep everybodys cost down, which obviously this didn't give two shits about until it affected him directly. And firefighters wouldn't have the authority to make that call on the spot anyway.....what if they bust their ass to save it and the guy can't pay? Yeah, I know they could put a lien, but I just think it's crazy to start asking police and firemen to make these type of judgement calls on the spot in a very tense situation.
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TA, isn't one of your big things how certain entities are "socialist" in nature, ie: police depts, fire depts, military....and what "entitles" people to these things are there being a tax paying citizen? The moral side of the equation can't be used, as it would just depend on the individuals ethics. For example, what if a cop is called to an altercation between 2 drug dealers where they are firing shots at each other.....is he morally obligated to try to stop it? What if he doesn't know they are drug dealers and just look like a couple of teens?
You can't run these types of organizations based on moral relativism.....sorry.
I'll kick it up a notch.....I think the dipshits who wander off into the woods and get "lost" should have to pay every cent back that it takes to rescue them. Absolutely idiotic that taxpayers foot the bill for these people. Or perhaps they should purchase some type of insurance that covers it.
I support a True Socialist Tax system that entails a National Sales Tax with no Tax on Used goods and essentials to life. I do not support our current Tax system or the IRS one bit.
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But you know there is a difference between paying a fee, which is what he offered, and paying insurance premiums. Premiums being designed to keep everybodys cost down, which obviously this didn't give two shits about until it affected him directly. And firefighters wouldn't have the authority to make that call on the spot anyway.....what if they bust their ass to save it and the guy can't pay? Yeah, I know they could put a lien, but I just think it's crazy to start asking police and firemen to make these type of judgement calls on the spot in a very tense situation.
I am not saying no, but to me the end result of letting this house burn like that is so draconian compared to the offense as to seem out of porportion.
Most things can be dealt with after the fact than simply allow things to burn down like this. Lets say the total cost was $10,000.
If the guy did not pay up as he said he could, they could put a lien on the house, garnish his wages, siezxe the property, etc.
Now that the house is burned down, the guy will be paying no real estate taxes, probably have to move to a shelter and go on welfare or something, all over a $75 fee is stupidly did not pay.
I agree the guy was a total jerk, but to me the offense should not warrant a result like this considering the guy offered to pay the actual amount.
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I support a True Socialist Tax system that entails a National Sales Tax with no Tax on Used goods and essentials to life. I do not support our current Tax system or the IRS one bit.
I actually agree with you to a large extent on this.
But, I really meant more directly that it is a very slippery slope when we decide to let firefighters, policemen and military members just make their own morally relative judgement in each situation.
If any of these firefighters had gone in and died in the fire, I will guarantee the insurance company (who you and I both know how they operate) would have tried to use the guy not having paid the fee as a way of denying a policy being paid on. And you know that is true....
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TA, isn't one of your big things how certain entities are "socialist" in nature, ie: police depts, fire depts, military....and what "entitles" people to these things are there being a tax paying citizen? The moral side of the equation can't be used, as it would just depend on the individuals ethics. For example, what if a cop is called to an altercation between 2 drug dealers where they are firing shots at each other.....is he morally obligated to try to stop it? What if he doesn't know they are drug dealers and just look like a couple of teens?
You can't run these types of organizations based on moral relativism.....sorry.
I'll kick it up a notch.....I think the dipshits who wander off into the woods and get "lost" should have to pay every cent back that it takes to rescue them. Absolutely idiotic that taxpayers foot the bill for these people. Or perhaps they should purchase some type of insurance that covers it.
A cop WILL stop an argument between two drug dealers or whomever since it clearly constitutes a danger to the public being that weapons are involved.
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A cop WILL stop an argument between two drug dealers or whomever since it clearly constitutes a danger to the public being that weapons are involved.
TA - notice no one is addressing my paramedic analogy?
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I am not saying no, but to me the end result of letting this house burn like that is so draconian compared to the offense as to seem out of porportion.
Most things can be dealt with after the fact than simply allow things to burn down like this. Lets say the total cost was $10,000.
If the guy did not pay up as he said he could, they could put a lien on the house, garnish his wages, siezxe the property, etc.
Now that the house is burned down, the guy will be paying no real estate taxes, probably have to move to a shelter and go on welfare or something, all over a $75 fee is stupidly did not pay.
I agree the guy was a total jerk, but to me the offense should not warrant a result like this considering the guy offered to pay the actual amount.
I hear what you are saying, but I just think it we start asking public servants to make these type of decisions on the spot, we are headed for serious problems.
does anybody know if this is the first time the situration happened in that area?
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It does seem harsh. I live in an area with several lakes. Some people living close to the water buy flood insurance. Some don't. Some figure hell, I live in a 100 yr flood plan, what are the odds we will have a flood? We just had one 10 yrs ago so I don't think I will pay the premiums. Of course it floods.. his house and all his belongings are ruined.. should my taxes go for rebuilding his house?
Does the guy have ANY home owners insurance? If so it will replace his house.. his photo albums and porn collection.. consider it lesson learned, cost of playing the odds and losing. Sound heartless? There were only 2 options.. pay $75 and have fire department services or don't pay and have no services.. There was no third option of 'pay additional fees if in fact your house does catch fire and you need us". It's like waiting for an accident to buy insurance..just doesnt work that way
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I hear what you are saying, but I just think it we start asking public servants to make these type of decisions on the spot, we are headed for serious problems.
does anybody know if this is the first time the situration happened in that area?
Public Servants have to make these kind of decisions all the time, especially the military.
Also, this was not the first time it happened in that county. Olbermann interviewed Cranick, whose house burned down, and Cranick stated that its happened a few other times where they just let the property burn to ashes. One particular instance was a barn full of horses, the horses of course were inside and they did nothing.
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Guys lets say this occured:
Instead of fire, the town had a $75 fee for paramedic services. 911 got a call that a man was having a heart attack in the street. The emt shows up, calls the town tax clerk, and realizes the man never paid the fee of $75.
Would it be ok to let the man die in the street over $75?
In this case, you treat the guy and bill him the entire amount. There is a difference between life and property. The paramedics weren't putting themselves in harms way by treating him. Putting out a fire can be and usually is a dangerous undertaking with risks involved.
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http://animals.change.org/blog/view/tennessee_firefighters_stand_and_watch_while_animals_burn
Tennessee Firefighters Stand and Watch While Animals Burn
by Martin Matheny October 07, 2010 09:15 AM (PT) Topics: Cats, Dogs
Chances are, you've seen this story by now. A homeowner in Tennessee stands by helplessly as his house burns to the ground. The local fire department won't help, because the homeowner forgot to pay a yearly fire protection fee.
And there, among the rubble and the charred remnants of a family's life, were the remains of Gene Cranick's pets. His human family made it out safely; his cat and three dogs did not.
The firefighters, by the way, were on the scene and equipped to stop the loss of life. You see, Cranick's neighbor had paid his fire services fee, so the local fire department was on hand to make sure the fire didn't spread. But, according to news reports, not a drop of water was put onto Cranick's home.
Four animals were burned alive. All of the Cranick family's possessions were lost. All over a measly $75 — the cost of this fire protection fee levied on Cranick and his neighbors.
It's not the first time, either. In an interview with MSNBC's Keith Olbermann, Cranick said that similar incidents had happened before, including one case where a barn containing live horses was left to burn.
The mayor of South Fulton, TN, whose fire department is at the center of this avoidable tragedy, is less than sympathetic. Mayor David Crocker told the media, "It's a service we offer. Either they accept it or they don't." Cranick tried to accept it. In his multiple 911 calls to save his home and his animals, he offered to pay the fee then and there, more if necessary. He was turned down.
Sure, because Crocker's got a government to run. Who's got time for common decency when you're the mayor of a bustling, powerhouse city like South Fulton? (Population 2,391 and shrinking.)
Giving Crocker the benefit of a doubt, let's presume that South Fulton's fire department has a policy of fighting a fire if human lives are at risk, even if the fee hasn't been paid. Let's assume that Crocker and the other parts of his government that enforce this wrongheaded and misguided policy have at least a shred of common decency. Even then, his actions send an unfortunate and all-too-common message: Animals are property, like your kitchen table, or your tennis racket, or your PlayStation.
The problem is, you probably don't grieve when you lose your PlayStation. You do when you lose a pet, and that's why the county needs to step up and make sure that every life is protected in a fire. There are a lot of ways it can do that.
While providing a public safety service like fire protection is a costly part of government, it is a part of government's duties. You can't run fire protection on a subscription basis, and South Fulton is hardly the only town in the U.S. that faces the prospect of providing crucial public safety services for its unincorporated neighbors. Other places don't leave innocent lives in the rubble because someone forgot to pay $75.
There's nothing we can do to bring back the Cranick family's pets. They're gone now, and we can only pray that they didn't suffer. We can prevent it from happening again by calling on Obion County to change their policy and keep pets safe as well.
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Public Servants have to make these kind of decisions all the time, especially the military.
Also, this was not the first time it happened in that county. Olbermann interviewed Cranick, whose house burned down, and Cranick stated that its happened a few other times where they just let the property burn to ashes. One particular instance was a barn full of horses, the horses of course were inside and they did nothing.
then the outcome is clear.. the guy had ample information to decide whether to participate in the program or not. He chose not to participate. End of story
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then the outcome is clear.. the guy had ample information to decide whether to participate in the program or not. He chose not to participate. End of story
You will be first in line I bet to fork over money for forced Health Insurance as well I bet. People like you make me fucking sick.
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then the outcome is clear.. the guy had ample information to decide whether to participate in the program or not. He chose not to participate. End of story
It just seems out of porportion to me, even though the guy was complete idiot in not paying.
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http://animals.change.org/blog/view/tennessee_firefighters_stand_and_watch_while_animals_burn
Tennessee Firefighters Stand and Watch While Animals Burn
by Martin Matheny October 07, 2010 09:15 AM (PT) Topics: Cats, Dogs
Chances are, you've seen this story by now. A homeowner in Tennessee stands by helplessly as his house burns to the ground. The local fire department won't help, because the homeowner forgot to pay a yearly fire protection fee.
And there, among the rubble and the charred remnants of a family's life, were the remains of Gene Cranick's pets. His human family made it out safely; his cat and three dogs did not.
The firefighters, by the way, were on the scene and equipped to stop the loss of life. You see, Cranick's neighbor had paid his fire services fee, so the local fire department was on hand to make sure the fire didn't spread. But, according to news reports, not a drop of water was put onto Cranick's home.
Four animals were burned alive. All of the Cranick family's possessions were lost. All over a measly $75 — the cost of this fire protection fee levied on Cranick and his neighbors.
It's not the first time, either. In an interview with MSNBC's Keith Olbermann, Cranick said that similar incidents had happened before, including one case where a barn containing live horses was left to burn.
The mayor of South Fulton, TN, whose fire department is at the center of this avoidable tragedy, is less than sympathetic. Mayor David Crocker told the media, "It's a service we offer. Either they accept it or they don't." Cranick tried to accept it. In his multiple 911 calls to save his home and his animals, he offered to pay the fee then and there, more if necessary. He was turned down.
Sure, because Crocker's got a government to run. Who's got time for common decency when you're the mayor of a bustling, powerhouse city like South Fulton? (Population 2,391 and shrinking.)
Giving Crocker the benefit of a doubt, let's presume that South Fulton's fire department has a policy of fighting a fire if human lives are at risk, even if the fee hasn't been paid. Let's assume that Crocker and the other parts of his government that enforce this wrongheaded and misguided policy have at least a shred of common decency. Even then, his actions send an unfortunate and all-too-common message: Animals are property, like your kitchen table, or your tennis racket, or your PlayStation.
The problem is, you probably don't grieve when you lose your PlayStation. You do when you lose a pet, and that's why the county needs to step up and make sure that every life is protected in a fire. There are a lot of ways it can do that.
While providing a public safety service like fire protection is a costly part of government, it is a part of government's duties. You can't run fire protection on a subscription basis, and South Fulton is hardly the only town in the U.S. that faces the prospect of providing crucial public safety services for its unincorporated neighbors. Other places don't leave innocent lives in the rubble because someone forgot to pay $75.
There's nothing we can do to bring back the Cranick family's pets. They're gone now, and we can only pray that they didn't suffer. We can prevent it from happening again by calling on Obion County to change their policy and keep pets safe as well.
The article was either OP/Ed or a letter to the editor.
Did he FORGET to pay the fee or did he choose not to. I haven't seen anything confirming he forgot. If the pets were so precious, why didn't the family members think about them before they left the house? And personally, I'm not running into a burning house for a cat.. but that's just me
I could write an article saying "Just how did this fire start? Who will gain from the insurance and why wouldn't someone pay $75 for protection from a fire unless he was planning on burning it for the insurance money..."
The only bad guy in this story is Cranick
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Public Servants have to make these kind of decisions all the time, especially the military.
Also, this was not the first time it happened in that county. Olbermann interviewed Cranick, whose house burned down, and Cranick stated that its happened a few other times where they just let the property burn to ashes. One particular instance was a barn full of horses, the horses of course were inside and they did nothing.
I served in the military, and it doesn't occur nearly as much as hollywood portrays. And even then there are very clear guidelines to follow, which is exactly what the firefighters did on this occasion.
Then the guy should have known the outcome of not paying if it happened before. I hate it for the animals, but sadly they paid the price for having a shitty owner.
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You will be first in line I bet to fork over money for forced Health Insurance as well I bet. People like you make me fucking sick.
People like you who make assumptions about people like me... are little more than gnats I swat away with little effort..
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The article was either OP/Ed or a letter to the editor.
Did he FORGET to pay the fee or did he choose not to. I haven't seen anything confirming he forgot. If the pets were so precious, why didn't the family members think about them before they left the house? And personally, I'm not running into a burning house for a cat.. but that's just me
I could write an article saying "Just how did this fire start? Who will gain from the insurance and why wouldn't someone pay $75 for protection from a fire unless he was planning on burning it for the insurance money..."
The only bad guy in this story is Cranick
I bet you can`t wait to brag to others about "knowing the consequences" of not paying for Forced Health Insurance.
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People like you who make assumptions about people like me... are little more than gnats I swat away with little effort..
Make a rule and you will follow. Fucking sheep.
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I bet you can`t wait to brag to others about "knowing the consequences" of not paying for Forced Health Insurance.
It doesn't apply to me, I have a job with good health benefits.. But if they said I needed to pay $75 annually for ambulance service if I lived outside their tax jurisdiction, I would weigh the pros and cons and respond accordingly, and live or die with my decision
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Make a rule and you will follow. Fucking sheep.
So in your world, how does it work?
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It doesn't apply to me, I have a job with good health benefits.. But if they said I needed to pay $75 annually for ambulance service if I lived outside their tax jurisdiction, I would weigh the pros and cons and respond accordingly, and live or die with my decision
Of course you don`t care because it doesn`t affect you. (though you should bloody well care) You would probably watch the country burn down just as long as you have your ham sammich, television, and crappy job to go to.
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It doesn't apply to me, I have a job with good health benefits.. But if they said I needed to pay $75 annually for ambulance service if I lived outside their tax jurisdiction, I would weigh the pros and cons and respond accordingly, and live or die with my decision
I agree on a philisophical level, however, real life is much different. Sure there is no techincal legal obligation to do certain things, but just because something is legal or obligated or not does not make it the right thing to do.
We are people, not robots. If you are dying in the street and your next door Doctor neighbor just looks at you and keeps drinking his glass of wine while you beg for your life, is that right? Of course not!
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So in your world, how does it work?
How does what work?
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I agree on a philisophical level, however, real life is much different. Sure there is no techincal legal obligation to do certain things, but just because something is legal or obligated or not does not make it the right thing to do.
We are people, not robots. If you are dying in the street and your next door Doctor neighbor just looks at you and keeps drinking his glass of wine while you beg for your life, is that right? Of course not!
Very good post.
Kind of reminds me of what RFK once said:
"Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our gross national product ... if we should judge America by that - counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for those who break them. It counts the destruction of our redwoods and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.
"Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it tells us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans."
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Very good post.
Kind of reminds me of what RFK once said:
"Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our gross national product ... if we should judge America by that - counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for those who break them. It counts the destruction of our redwoods and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.
"Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it tells us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans."
Oh dear, should a Kennedy really say such things? ;D
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Oh dear, should a Kennedy really say such things? ;D
Probably not. :D But the words and meaning are great!
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As an attorney, what galls me the most sometimes is people clinging to hyper techincal details on certain things when everyone knows what the right thing to do is.
This is especially true in many probate, family law, and divorce cases where siblings, spouses, children get screwed royally due to arcane rules that dont really reflect the reality of way things are.
Maybe I am just looking at my own lfe and seeing the times where I screwed up, and thankfully, someone bailed me out when they really did not have to but did it out of a sense of something else.
Did they have a legal obligation to save the home? No. Did the guy royally screw up ? Yes. Did the guy probably know the result of what would happen? Yes.
that being said, I really dont see the big deal of slapping the guy hard with a fine, judgement, lien, whatsever, but saving the house if he was willing to pay for it.
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Probably not. :D But the words and meaning are great!
It is a very eloquent analysis of a sense of duty to one another. And I agree that much of that has been lost.
This whole thing reminds me of the final Seinfeld episode, if anybody remembers that.... ;D
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I like the idea of being able to opt out of protective services from the fire department. I wish this extended further and we had the freedom to opt out of auto insurance, social security, soon to be mandatory health insurance, etc. There is a risk in opting out, but we are suppose to have freedom of choice in America.
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I like the idea of being able to opt out of protective services from the fire department. I wish this extended further and we had the freedom to opt out of auto insurance, social security, soon to be mandatory health insurance, etc. There is a risk in opting out, but we are suppose to have freedom of choice in America.
I agree, however, what bothers me here is that the guy offered to pay the actual amount, not the $75.00 he should have paid, but they ignored that.
Ignore EMTALA for a second, for example: If I show up at a docs office without insurance needing emergency treatment but am willing to pay the actual cost of delivery - would it be morally wrong for them to not treat me?
Of course there is no techincal legal obligation - but again WTF? What are we becoming with this stuff?
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I agree, however, what bothers me here is that the guy offered to pay the actual amount, not the $75.00 he should have paid, but they ignored that.
Ignore EMTALA for a second, for example: If I show up at a docs office without insurance needing emergency treatment but am willing to pay the actual cost of delivery - would it be morally wrong for them to not treat me?
Of course there is no techincal legal obligation - but again WTF? What are we becoming with this stuff?
but 33.....I know the guy offered, but to who? The onsite firefighter most likely. there is no way he should have to make that call....and if the dipshit had just paid, he wouldn't have to.
And again, as I mentioned to TA, if the firefighter went in and was injured or killed, he would most likely be denied by his health/life insurance company, so if that happened then people would say, WTF did he go in?
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but 33.....I know the guy offered, but to who? The onsite firefighter most likely. there is no way he should have to make that call....and if the dipshit had just paid, he wouldn't have to.
And again, as I mentioned to TA, if the firefighter went in and was injured or killed, he would most likely be denied by his health/life insurance company, so if that happened then people would say, WTF did he go in?
Could be, and I agree the guy is mostly at fault here. i just think these things can be dealt with differently no resulting in such draconian repurcussions.
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but 33.....I know the guy offered, but to who? The onsite firefighter most likely. there is no way he should have to make that call....and if the dipshit had just paid, he wouldn't have to.
And again, as I mentioned to TA, if the firefighter went in and was injured or killed, he would most likely be denied by his health/life insurance company, so if that happened then people would say, WTF did he go in?
He offered the Mayor, Clerk, everyone. Also they have waived the fire fees before and they could have in this instance.
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As an attorney, what galls me the most sometimes is people clinging to hyper techincal details on certain things when everyone knows what the right thing to do is.
This is especially true in many probate, family law, and divorce cases where siblings, spouses, children get screwed royally due to arcane rules that dont really reflect the reality of way things are.
Maybe I am just looking at my own lfe and seeing the times where I screwed up, and thankfully, someone bailed me out when they really did not have to but did it out of a sense of something else.
Did they have a legal obligation to save the home? No. Did the guy royally screw up ? Yes. Did the guy probably know the result of what would happen? Yes.
that being said, I really dont see the big deal of slapping the guy hard with a fine, judgement, lien, whatsever, but saving the house if he was willing to pay for it.
I think we all look to our experiences on things like this. For example with me, as you know I'm a cop, or at least play one on the internet. I have a book of policies, general orders and SOP's that I have to follow on a daily basis. Most of the rules in the books have someones name by them. In other words, there were very few rules at first, then someone decided that it was cool to ride on the hood of your patrol car while your partner drove after a subject fleeing on foot and jumping off the car and catching the bad guy. The hospital trip for both the officer and the bad guy resulted in the policy that we will not ride on the hood of the car while it is in motion. Fair enough.. With all those rules, we navigate them pretty well on a daily basis. There are those unusual circumstances where we have to break the rule because what happened was something outside the norm and after considering the consequences we chose to do it a different way. When we do that, we must articulate why we felt we had to deviate from the protocol. If it makes sense then we are fine.
In the case of the house burning, the occurence was the norm... there was no special circumstances. The house caught fire, he was not one of the participants in the program so there was no need to suddenly make a decision to do or not do anything. There was no other situation that arose that a reasonable person would not expect to happen if the fee wasn't paid and the house caught fire...
Anyway, the thing is, as in many topics on this board, we aren't going to agree on everything and my position or opinion is just that, my opinion. I can certainly see why people would be upset about this or not agree with the Fire Department as it is an emotional issue. I earlier responded to an inane comment by one of you with an inane response about swatting gnats. That was silly. This isn't personal, it's an issue we disagree on and I don't mind opposing views. So for responding like a 14yr old I apologize.
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I was not intending my comment to you, it was a general comment about life being dictated by hyper techincal rules to where we are expected to operate like robots without discretion to make decisions taking into account reality of life sometimes.
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I was not intending my comment to you, it was a general comment about life being dictated by hyper techincal rules to where we are expected to operate like robots without discretion to make decisions taking into account reality of life sometimes.
Oh I know, I was just qouting you on the life being dictated thingy..
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Oh I know, I was just qouting you on the life being dictated thingy..
This issue seems to me very much akin to ZERO tolerance policies in schools, mandatory mins in Fed Courts, etc etc.
I don't like any of that stuff.
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i agree with a lot of his points, but not his turning it into politics because he is assuming that in a lib area they would not have done the same thing.
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Seems pretty clear cut though.. prior to the fire everyone has an opportunity to either pay or not pay the $75 annual fee. If you don't then I don't see how you can expect to be the exception to the rule..
I don't know if this will avoid any future incidents but I think there should be a prior, clear understanding that if you don't pay the fee and call for assistance, you will billed for the actual costs involved in responding and putting out the fire. But legally in this case, and you being a lawyer might know, I don't know how the fire department could recoupe their costs as after the fact he could claim he agreed to pay the cost under duress or coercion as his house was burning...who could argue against that?
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I agree on a philisophical level, however, real life is much different. Sure there is no techincal legal obligation to do certain things, but just because something is legal or obligated or not does not make it the right thing to do.
Olbermann agrees with you.
Beck does not.
:)
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Olbermann agrees with you.
Beck does not.
:)
I don't base my opinions off of what tv personalities tell me. I know many issues i seem cold as ice, but not all.
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I don't base my opinions off of what tv personalities tell me. I know many issues i seem cold as ice, but not all.
I think this is simple.
What if 3 firefighters had died in the fire?
And, at the same time, another house (of a person WITH insurance) had burned down 5 miles away cause this team was already engaged trying to save 4 pets?
I love my pets, but if I'm stupid enough to spend my fireCare $ on other things, it's my own damn fault.
He made a choice. He probably spent $75 that year on lottery tickets - had he won 10 million, it would have been a wise investment. But it didn't work out that way. If a hurricane wipes out my south florida home, and I don't have hurricane and flood insurance, it's my own damn fault. Olbermann doesn't hold pity parties for me. I chose to buy FLEX Mag instead of Hurricane insurance - I was a dumbass.
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I think this is simple.
What if 3 firefighters had died in the fire?
And, at the same time, another house (of a person WITH insurance) had burned down 5 miles away cause this team was already engaged trying to save 4 pets?
I love my pets, but if I'm stupid enough to spend my fireCare $ on other things, it's my own damn fault.
He made a choice. He probably spent $75 that year on lottery tickets - had he won 10 million, it would have been a wise investment. But it didn't work out that way. If a hurricane wipes out my south florida home, and I don't have hurricane and flood insurance, it's my own damn fault. Olbermann doesn't hold pity parties for me. I chose to buy FLEX Mag instead of Hurricane insurance - I was a dumbass.
;D
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Olbermann agrees with you.
Beck does not.
:)
Somewhere in the Bronx an esqs head just exploded
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Somewhere in the Bronx an esqs head just exploded
Corner of Webster Ave. & 233rd ;D ;D
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Corner of Webster Ave. & 233rd ;D ;D
I bet you're de-friending Glenn Beck from facebook right now lol...
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Lmao..im puerto rican and never been to the bronx...wild huh
washington heights is where i stay wen i go to NY
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I bet you're de-friending Glenn Beck from facebook right now lol...
No, i dont have to agree with anyone on 10/10 things to still like them.
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Lmao..im puerto rican and never been to the bronx...wild huh
washington heights is where i stay wen i go to NY
Yeah, its hard mostly. There are pockets of good areas like in Riverdale and Country Club on the water, but is mostly people barely scraping by in a concrete jungle.
The crazy thing is that 10 minutes north is Bronxville, Edgemont Scarsdale, people are insanely wealthy. In between in Yonkers (The "Y.O.") which is like the wild west in a lot of parts, DMX, the Lox, Mary J etc etc.
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TA, I think you should send money to help.
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Yes they should have put it out and charged him the full amount, but I agree with agnostic you cant have ppl who are not in the position to make decisions about financial matters doing so on the spot.
They should have had a plan in place and im sure they probably do as of now...
none of this negates the fact however that this moron was at fault more so than anybody else. If he had simply paid the money instead of assuming they would come and put the fire out even if he didnt there would never have been an issue.
LMAO at TA bringing the arrogance, Id love to meet you one day and remind you what your place is in this world TA...I dont know who or when somebody started letting a 6 foot 150lb twink think he was a billy bad ass but id love to be the one to remind you where you belong...
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Yes they should have put it out and charged him the full amount, but I agree with agnostic you cant have ppl who are not in the position to make decisions about financial matters doing so on the spot.
They should have had a plan in place and im sure they probably do as of now...
none of this negates the fact however that this moron was at fault more so than anybody else. If he had simply paid the money instead of assuming they would come and put the fire out even if he didnt there would never have been an issue.
LMAO at TA bringing the arrogance, Id love to meet you one day and remind you what your place is in this world TA...I dont know who or when somebody started letting a 6 foot 150lb twink think he was a billy bad ass but id love to be the one to remind you where you belong...
Go fuck yourself fatso. :) You wouldn`t do a thing "in person".
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But you have Jesus behind you; most firefighters don't.
hahahaha ;D
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I wonder if the guy has fire insurance
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I feel bad for this guy not so much because his house burned down, but because he is being used as a political mascot by the likes of Keith Olberman and his ilk. We have all made mistakes and done irresponsible things. Unfortunately for him, his irresponsible act occured on a national scale and the likes of Keith Olberman and all other big media liberals have flocked to embarass him and have put him in a really bad position. If he accepts thier help he has allowed himself to be used as a political mascot, and if he doesnt accept thier help he looks like a schmuk. But this is what liberals and the modern Social Democrat Party do. It is what they do to gain power in this country. Taking the weakest aspect of human nature and using it to control people.
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PAY THE FREAKING MONEY STUPID F'N FREELOADER!!!!The fire department should have let it burn as they did.If they put it out the next guy wouldnt have paid either,eventually no one would pay and the program goes under.PAY YOUR FREAKING BILLS!
Im also glad they made sure to put out the fire of the guys house who did pay.That should be a good lesson for the next guy who wont pay.The health care should be just like this,no insurance,no money,you die on the street motherf##ker.
Would you stick by this opinion if there was a 12 year old girl trapped inside the house, "BILLY MINIMUM?" "Let the house burn," right "BILLY?"
Freaking freeloader! Next time we won't let your daughter die to teach you a lesson to pay your $75 bill on time!!!
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Go fuck yourself fatso. :) You wouldn`t do a thing "in person".
lol actually you little fuking twink i would break you just like your little jezzebelle does...
sorry but im really not afraid of most ppl least of all an overprivilaged 150lb 6foot twink of a homo... ;)
like I said id love to be the person to remind you of what your place is in this world TA its a shame though that someone will unfortunately beat me to it :-\