Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Xerxes on November 12, 2010, 01:42:47 PM
-
.
-
Fix that gyno and that is a good as it gets.......
-
:o
-
Fix that gyno and that is a good as it gets.......
"that is a good as it gets......." For awhile
-
Much better than Dorian ever was
.....waiting for ND to correct me.
-
98 was the best Ronnie ever was. It's almost weird to see his quads that small, but they were in perfect proportion with the rest of his physique. Never again did he have the waistline that small, and no gut. Really, you can look at any year he won the Olympia and ask if he was better, and the answer is no. Yes, he was bigger, but at the cost of proportions and condition.
-
Much better than Dorian ever was
.....waiting for ND to correct me.
I wasn't gonna type in this thread until YOU mentioned my name ;D
yet the same year he just barely beat Flex Wheeler by the skin of his teeth by 3 points in one of the closest contests in Olympia history , yet he was ' much better ' hahahahahaha keep telling yourself that ;)
Ronnie looks amazing in this video for the record much sharper here than in 1999 his conditioning was fantastic , shame he added more redundant size this package was good enough to beat the guys he was competing against
-
I've always wondered, since Ronnie has never mentioned it himself, what the change was between 97 and 98 because it's like night and day how much he improved.
-
I've always wondered, since Ronnie has never mentioned it himself, what the change was between 97 and 98 because it's like night and day how much he improved.
Flex the fucking moron turned him onto Chad and Chad dried him out completely that's the only difference between 97 and 98
-
I wasn't gonna type in this thread until YOU mentioned my name ;D
yet the same year he just barely beat Flex Wheeler by the skin of his teeth by 3 points in one of the closest contests in Olympia history , yet he was ' much better ' hahahahahaha keep telling yourself that ;)
Ronnie looks amazing in this video for the record much sharper here than in 1999 his conditioning was fantastic , shame he added more redundant size this package was good enough to beat the guys he was competing against
Spot on, although id add the Gyno and calves...other than that he was Spectacular in 1998 IMO 98 O his Best ever.
-
Someone else that looked amazing in finland. Savolainen
wins the rear double B and side tri imo
-
LOL
What the Dorian nuthuggers won't realise or accept is that Ronnie became leaps and bounds better after 98...
*insert pic of Dorian from 94 or 97 Olympia with midsection relaxed, a pic of fat bastard and 3 sharpened pics of Ronnie from the 99 Olympia*
Just lightening your load a bit, Hulkster. You can take over now.
-
LOL
What the Dorian nuthuggers won't realise or accept is that Ronnie became leaps and bounds better after 98...
*insert pic of Dorian from 94 or 97 Olympia with midsection relaxed, a pic of fat bastard and 3 sharpened pics of Ronnie from the 99 Olympia*
Just lightening your load a bit, Hulkster. You can take over now.
He's hiding out , I bitch slapped him hard in the other thread.
-
LOL
What the Dorian nuthuggers won't realise or accept is that Ronnie became leaps and bounds better after 98...
*insert pic of Dorian from 94 or 97 Olympia with midsection relaxed, a pic of fat bastard and 3 sharpened pics of Ronnie from the 99 Olympia*
Just lightening your load a bit, Hulkster. You can take over now.
Haha - some funny shit right there! ;D
-
He's hiding out , I bitch slapped him hard in the other thread.
No way, lol. He's probably taken some ECA and waiting for it to kick in, so he can post in this thread.
I'd bet my post count that we'll see pics from the 99 Olympia before page 3 of this thread 8)
-
Ronnie: 8 Mr. Os and most wins ever
Dorian 6
nuff said.
-
Can't touch this..
-
BTW that video is fucking nuts...
-
Ronnie: 8 Mr. Os and most wins ever
Dorian 6
nuff said.
How many of those wins were against Dorian? ;)
if you're solely basing who is better of Olympia wins and pro wins , Ronnie wins. that has nothing to do with if Ronnie could beat Dorian at his best
-
Ronnie: 8 Mr. Os and most wins ever
Dorian 6
nuff said.
Dorian: never placed lower than 2nd in a pro show.
Won every single pro show he entered with the exception of placing 2nd in his first 2 shows.
;)
-
If he just would have kept that look and had the mindset of a Shawn Ray, he would still be Mr. Olympia today
-
Insane!
What you talking about Willis?
-
Ronnie: 8 Mr. Os and most wins ever
Dorian 6
nuff said.
I prefer Ronnie's physique also but I don't think you can judge who is best simply by wins. Jay could win ten times and still couldn't compare to Ronnie or Dorian.
-
Ronnie looks great in that 98 vid.
I still prefer his 99 look, same conditioning with more fullness/size. his upper back does not appear as dry in that vid as it did in the 99 clips. but this is understandable since Ronnie no doubt timed his peak for the olympia that year, and not necessarily the grand prix shows after.
ironically, guy hero and saviour Peter McGough also prefers his 99 look over his 98 one, but the nuthuggers don't like to hear this. they hate it when I remind them of his printed words LOL
oh, and someone wanted some dorian/fat bastard pics? well, here you go: ;D
-
98 was the best Ronnie ever was. It's almost weird to see his quads that small, but they were in perfect proportion with the rest of his physique. Never again did he have the waistline that small, and no gut. Really, you can look at any year he won the Olympia and ask if he was better, and the answer is no. Yes, he was bigger, but at the cost of proportions and condition.
Very well said...
-
oh, and someone wanted some dorian/fat bastard pics? well, here you go: ;D
:D
-
Ronnie looks great in that 98 vid.
I still prefer his 99 look, same conditioning with more fullness/size. his upper back does not appear as dry in that vid as it did in the 99 clips. but this is understandable since Ronnie no doubt timed his peak for the olympia that year, and not necessarily the grand prix shows after.
ironically, guy hero and saviour Peter McGough also prefers his 99 look over his 98 one, but the nuthuggers don't like to hear this. they hate it when I remind them of his printed words LOL
oh, and someone wanted some dorian/fat bastard pics? well, here you go: ;D
Hahaha, no one cares about that, because he also said Ronnie couldnt win against Dorian. So you just fucked yourself with that one, either hes right about 99 and Ronnie would lose, or hes wrong, 99 wasnt his best and Ronnie wouldn't lose to Dorian. Hahahahah.
Not to mention, your whole argument was destroyed 3 times when Ronnie ammended his previous statement about being his best from the night of the 99 O after he won. (cause NO ONE would say they were better last year) . Hahaha. Youre truely sad Hulkster.
-
ive been to helsinki!
(http://www.glazedbuns.com/movies/ass-vids-20.jpg)
(http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/303246-andressa_soares_famous_ass_brazil.jpg)
-
Can't touch this..
STOP! Hammer time!
DY and Coleman were both awesome in their primes, who would have won?
I wouldn't like to judge it!
-
Hahaha, no one cares about that
no, we all know that for a period of several years ND's whole argument was based solely on peter mcgough's opinion.
go back and read some of the old dorian/ronnie threads or the truce thread. its all over the place.
so nice try, but that won't work. :P
-
Ronnie looks great in that 98 vid.
I still prefer his 99 look, same conditioning with more fullness/size. his upper back does not appear as dry in that vid as it did in the 99 clips. but this is understandable since Ronnie no doubt timed his peak for the olympia that year, and not necessarily the grand prix shows after.
ironically, guy hero and saviour Peter McGough also prefers his 99 look over his 98 one, but the nuthuggers don't like to hear this. they hate it when I remind them of his printed words LOL
oh, and someone wanted some dorian/fat bastard pics? well, here you go: ;D
WRONG his conditioning was not the ' same ' and what's funny is you're now reduced to accepting Peter McGough's words as some sort of proof when you dismissed them for a very long time and they still contradict everything you type as usual
and it's you who hates to be reminded of his printed words ;) watch & learn stupid
review of mr. olympia 1999, january 2000, page 90:
257 pounds, a good seven pounds heavier than last year and the clear winner, ALTHOUGH NOT AS BONE DRY OR AS ROCK HARD IN 98.
Oh don't like being reminded his conditioning was NOT the same in 99 do you? ;) and you say he preferred his 99 look to 98 ? doesn't have anything to do with his conditioning being better in 98 and you being the weasel you are forgot to type were he prefers his 2001 physique over 1998/1999 ;)
you hate to be reminded of this as well ;)
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger body weight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
Everyone knows 1998 he was better conditioned , everyone except stupid people like you who've been proven dead wrong but insist on claiming the opposite of reality because you were exposed as being dumb to what conditioning is and isn't. Like I've always said don't worry we all know you don't know shit about this sport , especially after you claimed Dorian lost the most dominate Olympia win in this history of the contest ;)
-
Ronnie's chest structure was less than pleasing. In pure bodybuilding terms Dorian in 1993 impresses me more, although i am no fan of the mass monster look.
-
no, we all know that for a period of several years ND's whole argument was based solely on peter mcgough's opinion.
go back and read some of the old dorian/ronnie threads or the truce thread. its all over the place.
so nice try, but that won't work. :P
No it wasn't and never has been , what's funny is my argument's been the same since day one , long before Peter McGough confirmed what I always said
My argument always has been the same , Dorian would win against Ronnie because he's bigger than Ronnie at his best , harder & drier , has better balance & proportion , oh and he's better at physique presentation as well , so staying true to your deceptive nature you think you can outright lie saying that was all my argument was based on and as usual it takes moments to bitch-slap you
My argument was based off the IFBB judging criteria which I posted long before any Peter McGough quotes , opppsssss forgot about that one huh? recall the IFBB judging criteria which you didn't have a clue what it was? and still don't ;)
McGough's opinion confirmed what I said ( Dorian has better conditioning , see above ) , Yates confirmed what I said about the same as far as conditioning and balance , that's the best part having my opinions validated by the best in the business why you on the other hand LMFAO think Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian , that Dorian lost the 1993 Olympia to Flex , that 1994 was close and 1998 wasn't HAHAHAHAHAHHA that 1999 is Ronnie's best
Your ' opinions ' are ignorant which isn't a bad thing because ignorant just means you don't know , there comes a point where your ' opinions ' become stupid & retarded is when you do find out , and don't like the reality of the situation and decide to just keep typing the same lies and think if you keep doing so , you wont have to face the embarrassment of looking like a moron , like I've said you've proven you're an idiot every time you post ;)
-
I prefer Ronnie's physique also but I don't think you can judge who is best simply by wins. Jay could win ten times and still couldn't compare to Ronnie or Dorian.
Exactly, I prefer Levrone and Flex over them both but its personal taste
-
Hahaha, no one cares about that, because he also said Ronnie couldnt win against Dorian. So you just fucked yourself with that one, either hes right about 99 and Ronnie would lose, or hes wrong, 99 wasnt his best and Ronnie wouldn't lose to Dorian. Hahahahah.
Not to mention, your whole argument was destroyed 3 times when Ronnie ammended his previous statement about being his best from the night of the 99 O after he won. (cause NO ONE would say they were better last year) . Hahaha. Youre truely sad Hulkster.
What's funny is Hulkster HATES Peter McGough's words because they destroyed everything to tried to prove , he may prefer his 99 look has absolutely nothing to do with his conditioning compared to 1998 and the funny part is Hulkster leaves out is in the same quote he outright says 1998/1999 isn't the best he's looked it's 2001 HAHAHAHAHAHA so it proves 1999 isn't his best like Hulkster is trying to claim
see he fucked himself with the 99 screencaps he was looking at enhanced screencaps and came to the conclusion this was the best Ronnie ever looked HAHAHAHAHAHAHA and he was the forced to stick to this story because he knows that if he changes to 98 or 01 we'll know that he doesn't know what he's talking about LMFAO we already know that for a fact !! he's proven that time and again
and another angle he desperately needs 99 to be Ronnie's best his is weight , he thinks he can compete with Dorian because of similar weight and yet in his stupidity he can't grasp the concept of there being a vast difference between the 257lbs Ronnie carried in 99 and the 257lbs hard & dry Dorian carried in 93
And many consider Dorian's best the black & white photos in 1993 and he's 269lbs with better conditioning than Ronnie any year ( sans 98/01 where his conditioning may be equal ) so he's fucked either way , Dorian B&W at 269lbs kills Ronnie 99 , in all of the criteria , bigger , harder , drier , better balance , more complete , better poser ! so he still loses , apply all that criteria to Ronnie any other year and guess who satisfies it better ;D
-
Exactly, I prefer Levrone and Flex over them both but its personal taste
'
That's precisely the problem , this guys CAN NOT for the life of them separate what they prefer to what would win
I prefer Flex , Steve Reeves , Frank Zane but that has nothing to do with who would beat who in a contest
I actually thought Flex looked eons better than Dorian in 1993 and was baffled how Dorian could beat him , I claimed it was fixed , how can a guy who looked nothing like the ideal beat Flex who was the epitome of it win , then I learned how contests were judged and I then realized just how much Dorian dominated that contest and how far Flex was from winning
99.9% of Ronnie fans simply prefer the way his physique looks compared to Dorians and they base their opinion on who would win using that alone.
-
Someone else that looked amazing in finland. Savolainen
wins the rear double B and side tri imo
This is from 1997 though. But yes, Marko looked unreal.
-
Insane!
Indeed, Ronnie did look great that year. Lucky for him, he didn't have to compete against this, or he would have been slaughtered. It is so obvious, it is not even up for debate. Ronnie lacks the width and density to hang with Yates. When Ronnie turns to the side, the difference is staggering.
-
This is from 1997 though. But yes, Marko looked unreal.
from 98 it went downhill for him (Marko).
-
Incredible in '98. I think his 300+lbs in '04 was his best. You wouldn't be able to see the '98 ronnie next to the '04 Ronnie
-
to bad marko couldnt hold the pressure, he would have been a great pro. at the vid wasnt he like 26-27 years old?
-
(http://www.xtreme-curves.com/saraj_1_7004.jpg)
roid-ron looks like shit
blocky no symerty
-
to bad marko couldnt hold the pressure, he would have been a great pro. at the vid wasnt he like 26-27 years old?
24..
He won the finnish championships in 93 at 19yrs old. so that makes him about 23-24 in that video (97). insane if you think twice.
-
1998-2000 Ronnie Coleman = untouchable and will never be reproduced in this lifetime.
-
24..
He won the finnish championships in 93 at 19yrs old. so that makes him about 23-24 in that video (97). insane if you think twice.
insane. not many guys who have competed at the pro level with that kind of muscularity and shape at that age.
-
I wasn't gonna type in this thread until YOU mentioned my name ;D
yet the same year he just barely beat Flex Wheeler by the skin of his teeth by 3 points in one of the closest contests in Olympia history , yet he was ' much better ' hahahahahaha keep telling yourself that ;)
Ronnie looks amazing in this video for the record much sharper here than in 1999 his conditioning was fantastic , shame he added more redundant size this package was good enough to beat the guys he was competing against
yet the same year he just barely beat Flex Wheeler by the skin of his teeth by 3 points in one of the closest contests in Olympia history , yet he was ' much better ' hahahahahaha keep telling yourself that ;)
Sure he beat Flex by only 3 points, but was that reflected on stage? I seriously saw Ronnie beat Flex by far, maybe he got overlooked in the prejudging as someone else mentioned before...which is why the closeness in points.
Ronnie looks amazing in this video for the record much sharper here than in 1999 his conditioning was fantastic , shame he added more redundant size this package was good enough to beat the guys he was competing against
I agree.
-
Can't touch this..
He never got that package to the stage.
-
Ronnie looks great in that 98 vid.
I still prefer his 99 look, same conditioning with more fullness/size. his upper back does not appear as dry in that vid as it did in the 99 clips. but this is understandable since Ronnie no doubt timed his peak for the olympia that year, and not necessarily the grand prix shows after.
ironically, guy hero and saviour Peter McGough also prefers his 99 look over his 98 one, but the nuthuggers don't like to hear this. they hate it when I remind them of his printed words LOL
oh, and someone wanted some dorian/fat bastard pics? well, here you go: ;D
Sorry hulkster I'm going to have to disagree with you here, but his conditioning in 99 was not better than 98.
Are you sure you can't see he was drier in 98?
-
I prefer Flex , Steve Reeves , Frank Zane but that has nothing to do with who would beat who in a contest ... 99.9% of Ronnie fans simply prefer the way his physique looks compared to Dorians and they base their opinion on who would win using that alone.
This sums up bodybuilding 'fandom'.
The problem, I think, is that there is no evidence of how and why who beats who on the scorecards. If the scorecards could somehow reflect the criteria, it would make the whole judging process a lot more accountable.
At the moment, it's mainly a matter of spin doctoring and then, over time, the fans believe in the god-like powers of whatever is written as history. A case in point is when Arnold won the Olympia in 1980. If I remember correctly, regarding the controversial nature of the win, he said something along the lines of that even though the fans were upset, it would all blow over he will still have won the Olympia 7 times.
People tend to believe the rhythms of reporting rather than the reality behind it.
-
Sure he beat Flex by only 3 points, but was that reflected on stage? I seriously saw Ronnie beat Flex by far, maybe he got overlooked in the prejudging as someone else mentioned before...which is why the closeness in points.
I agree.
Sure he beat Flex by only 3 points, but was that reflected on stage? I seriously saw Ronnie beat Flex by far, maybe he got overlooked in the prejudging as someone else mentioned before...which is why the closeness in points.
sure it did Ronnie was a deserving winner but make NO mistake it was close and he was ' overlooked ' excuse is just that an excuse , Roland Cziurlock was overlooked in 1994 where did he place? if Ronnie was ' overlooked ' he wouldn't have won
-
sure it did Ronnie was a deserving winner but make NO mistake it was close and he was ' overlooked ' excuse is just that an excuse , Roland Cziurlock was overlooked in 1994 where did he place? if Ronnie was ' overlooked ' he wouldn't have won
I don't think you can put too much emphasis on how close a victory was in alot of cases. Ronnie beat Jay by one point in '04. Same with Haney and Dorian in '91 when I thought Haney was the clear winner, I'm sure you'll agree ;D. I think the judges make it close sometimes to build interest and create hype/rivalry for the next yr. I though flex should've been 4th behind Levrone and Shawn also in the '98 O not 2nd.
-
sure it did Ronnie was a deserving winner but make NO mistake it was close and he was ' overlooked ' excuse is just that an excuse
not according to the pics and videos:
::)
ronnie blew flex away in 98, made him look soft, oily and puffy.
and you call this close LOL ::)
ND still hasn't learned that just because judges show a score difference of a few points doesn't mean that it should have been that close on paper. most times it doesn't.
but then, he really has no clue so..
-
Sorry hulkster I'm going to have to disagree with you here, but his conditioning in 99 was not better than 98.
Are you sure you can't see he was drier in 98?
its a little better with even more size.
compare the clips.
notice how when ronnie hits the mm in 99, his chest is a roadmap of detail and vascularity. in the 98 clip, nothing happens. notice the rear lat spread. the christmas tree of detail is loud and clear in 99, not so in 98. its obvious when you really compare the clips.
now, the nuthuggers know the clip shows 99 to be better, and do you know what their way of refuting this is? they simply claim the 99 videos are faked LOL ::)
yes, they really are that sad. :-\
-
not according to the pics and videos:
::)
ronnie blew flex away in 98, made him look soft, oily and puffy.
and you call this close LOL ::)
ND still hasn't learned that just because judges show a score difference of a few points doesn't mean that it should have been that close on paper. most times it doesn't.
but then, he really has no clue so..
Flex Wheeler=
(http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/Elfquest%20Archives%20Volume%201%20Wendy%20Richard%20Pini.jpg)
-
Dorian's hair was much improved over his '92 form
-
Dorian's hair was much improved over his '92 form
His feathered hair was awesome...
-
His feathered hair was awesome...
:-X :-X :-X
-
its a little better with even more size.
compare the clips.
notice how when ronnie hits the mm in 99, his chest is a roadmap of detail and vascularity. in the 98 clip, nothing happens. notice the rear lat spread. the christmas tree of detail is loud and clear in 99, not so in 98. its obvious when you really compare the clips.
now, the nuthuggers know the clip shows 99 to be better, and do you know what their way of refuting this is? they simply claim the 99 videos are faked LOL ::)
yes, they really are that sad. :-\
Yes, many people think Ronnie was better in 1999 than 1998.
On a fairly recent pole at MD RC's 1999 physique was rated better than 1998 by more people.
Mike Arnold over there wrote that Ronnie 1999 was the gold standard in bodybuilding
and I guarantee he knows more about bodybuilding and judging than anyone here.
Try debating that guy..LOL
As far as the video quality; it is consistent with other 1999 high quality ones
such as this one of Shawn Ray.
-
not according to the pics and videos:
::)
ronnie blew flex away in 98, made him look soft, oily and puffy.
and you call this close LOL ::)
ND still hasn't learned that just because judges show a score difference of a few points doesn't mean that it should have been that close on paper. most times it doesn't.
but then, he really has no clue so..
hahahahahaha we knew it was coming ;D
there is reality and then there is what you type which contradicts. NO 98 wasn't close ::) and according to you Ronnie ' dominated ' in 2001 ::) and according to you Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian ::) and according to you Dorian lost in 1993 to Flex ::) ::)
you don't have the slightest clue on how to look at a contest just based on these few retard statements and the funny part is there is more to boot ;)
-
its a little better with even more size.
compare the clips.
notice how when ronnie hits the mm in 99, his chest is a roadmap of detail and vascularity. in the 98 clip, nothing happens. notice the rear lat spread. the christmas tree of detail is loud and clear in 99, not so in 98. its obvious when you really compare the clips.
now, the nuthuggers know the clip shows 99 to be better, and do you know what their way of refuting this is? they simply claim the 99 videos are faked LOL ::)
yes, they really are that sad. :-\
The sad part is you keep clinging to this retarded notion Ronnie was bigger , harder & drier in 99 yet absolutely NO ONE ( worth listening to ) agrees , 1999 is NOT considered his best by anyone and Ronnie himself said twice his best Olympia was 1998 , like I just typed above you have a long history of contradicting reality , thanks again for proving me right.
I love how now you only post the youtube video and stare clear of Bizzy's clips the funny part is if they aren't worked like you claim why have you stopped using them? LMFAO ;)
you post the youtube clip that looks exactly like Bizzy's but doesn't have his name , how about this prejudging video from 1999 that looks more like the Muscletime scans and the magazine scans and NOTHING like Bizzy's screencaps , you don't dare post that because once again it shows what you don't wanna see
-
Yes, many people think Ronnie was better in 1999 than 1998.
On a fairly recent pole at MD RC's 1999 physique was rated better than 1998 by more people.
Mike Arnold over there wrote that Ronnie 1999 was the gold standard in bodybuilding
and I guarantee he knows more about bodybuilding and judging than anyone here.
Try debating that guy..LOL
As far as the video quality; it is consistent with other 1999 high quality ones
such as this one of Shawn Ray.
hahahahaha the gimmicks are here helping Hulkster LMFAO probably Bizzy ;D
I don't care who Mike Arnold is , you think he trumps Ronnie Coleman himself? and who of credibility claim Ronnie was better in 1999? or 1999 is his best? NO ONE 99.9% of credible people claims 98 or 03 is his best Olympia and 2001ASC is his best showing
4 out of 5 gimmicks agree , 1999 is better LMFAO ;D ;D ;D
-
I don't think you can put too much emphasis on how close a victory was in alot of cases. Ronnie beat Jay by one point in '04. Same with Haney and Dorian in '91 when I thought Haney was the clear winner, I'm sure you'll agree ;D. I think the judges make it close sometimes to build interest and create hype/rivalry for the next yr. I though flex should've been 4th behind Levrone and Shawn also in the '98 O not 2nd.
We absolutely can put emphasis on how close it on paper. Ronnie didn't beat Jay by one point in 04 , he beat him by three , Dorian only won one round in 91 I don't claim that to be a ' close ' contest I don't think anyone claimed it to be that close , although Dorian pushed Haney like no one before
-
it's amazing how Dorian's physique managed to be so ugly and yet possess truly unparralleled quality
(http://www.arthurshall.com/images/custom_images/dorian_yates.jpg)
-
As far as the video quality; it is consistent with other 1999 high quality ones
such as this one of Shawn Ray.
try telling that to the idiot nuthuggers...
::)
the collective lack of intelligence is nothing short of spectacular. :-\
-
Yes, many people think Ronnie was better in 1999 than 1998.
On a fairly recent pole at MD RC's 1999 physique was rated better than 1998 by more people.
Mike Arnold over there wrote that Ronnie 1999 was the gold standard in bodybuilding
and I guarantee he knows more about bodybuilding and judging than anyone here.
Try debating that guy..LOL
guy hero and fellow yates sperm swallower Peter Mcgough also rated 99 higher than 98, but felt that his 2001 AC form was better than either.
yet the nuthuggers STILL love to claim 98 was better than 99, even though its clear that its not and thats why most feel that it isn't, including their lord and saviour, Peter McGough LOL
its fun to rub it in LOL
-
and stare clear of Bizzy's clips the funny part is if they aren't worked like you claim why have you stopped using them? LMFAO
because everyone on this board is sick and tired of you having a meltdown when they are posted because you know and we all know that yates could never touch that.
no need to post screenshots anymore when we have excellent high quality clips available.
that you claim are faked LOL ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
-
Ronnie: 8 Mr. Os and most wins ever
Dorian 6
nuff said.
Dorian 5 straight-firsts wins out of 6 wins
Ronnie 4 straight-firsts win out of 8
Dorian 85% of his Olympia wins with straight-firsts scores
Ronnie 50% of his Olympia wins with straight-firsts scores
Dorian retires undefeated
Ronnie is destroyed like a bitch by a bodybuilder who could never ever touch him in his prime
Dorian = better at the end of the day. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Dorian retires undefeated
actually dorian retired looking like this LOL
-
try telling that to the idiot nuthuggers...
::)
the collective lack of intelligence is nothing short of spectacular. :-\
lmao you're calling use idiots you're agreeing with a gimmick LMFAO talk about irony
-
guy hero and fellow yates sperm swallower Peter Mcgough also rated 99 higher than 98, but felt that his 2001 AC form was better than either.
yet the nuthuggers STILL love to claim 98 was better than 99, even though its clear that its not and thats why most feel that it isn't, including their lord and saviour, Peter McGough LOL
its fun to rub it in LOL
The fact that you still cling to McGough rating 99 higher shows how desperate you are when in fact he says outright 2001 is better ;) and he said many times 99 sucks in comparison to 98 in conditioning , you can NOT escape this fact
you're reduced to lying as usual NO ONE feels 1999 is his best NO ONE not McGough not Ronnie as usual you have gimmicks backing you up LMFAO
fucking dummy
-
The sad part is you keep clinging to this retarded notion Ronnie was bigger , harder & drier in 99 yet absolutely NO ONE ( worth listening to ) agrees , 1999 is NOT considered his best by anyone and Ronnie himself said twice his best Olympia was 1998 , like I just typed above you have a long history of contradicting reality , thanks again for proving me right.
I love how now you only post the youtube video and stare clear of Bizzy's clips the funny part is if they aren't worked like you claim why have you stopped using them? LMFAO ;)
you post the youtube clip that looks exactly like Bizzy's but doesn't have his name , how about this prejudging video from 1999 that looks more like the Muscletime scans and the magazine scans and NOTHING like Bizzy's screencaps , you don't dare post that because once again it shows what you don't wanna see
wow, finally a real video of 99.
Ronnie was much more impressive in 98. He was more conditioned, dryer, significantly smaller waist, and no gut which he had in 99.
-
because everyone on this board is sick and tired of you having a meltdown when they are posted because you know and we all know that yates could never touch that.
no need to post screenshots anymore when we have excellent high quality clips available.
that you claim are faked LOL ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
You're such a bitch , you're using Bizzy's youtube clip now dumbass ;) as usual Hulkster = fail
I posted a youtube clip from prejudging and guess what it looks nothing like Bizzy's surprise , surprise ;D the funny thing is you tried to totally ignore it three times now ;) gee I wonder why
and hey moron? where do you think Bizzy got his screencaps from? his fucked video that's where dumb ass it's the same fucking source you retard
you don't dare post Bizzy's links anymore ( independent proof LMAO ) but you're still fucking doing it ;) this is how stupid you are , just because someone steals his videos and hosts it under their account doesn't mean it's new idiot ::)
-
wow, finally a real video of 99.
Ronnie was much more impressive in 98. He was more conditioned, dryer, significantly smaller waist, and no gut which he had in 99.
stupid Hulkster has tried to ignore this video three times now , guess what it's high quality and looks NOTHING like the shit Bizzy posted ;)
-
actually dorian retired looking like this LOL
LOL ::) kicked Ronnie's 255lb ass that year easily it's no wonder why Ronnie said Dorian would kick his ass time and time again ;)
here is what Ronnie looked like at what morons claim is his best HAHAHAHAHAHA
-
Just when you think Hulkster can't possibly be any more stupid he takes it to another level , he wont post links to Bizzy's video or his screencaps because people bitch it's ' fake ' yet he posts and 100% identical video LMFAO
Hulkster's gone full retard ;D
he tries so hard and always falls flat on his face
-
look Hulkster a fourth independent source LMFAO go see who is hosting the video
-
(http://i37.tinypic.com/288a646.jpg)
-
(http://i37.tinypic.com/288a646.jpg)
Fantasy , this is the reality ;)
-
Just when you think Hulkster can't possibly be any more stupid he takes it to another level , he wont post links to Bizzy's video or his screencaps because people bitch it's ' fake ' yet he posts and 100% identical video LMFAO
Hulkster's gone full retard ;D
he tries so hard and always falls flat on his face
no genius, the reason that bizzy's video matches other videos on the web is not because its fake.
its because its NOT fake.
duh.
::)
honestly, do you know how stupid you look with all this conspiracy bullshit?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3w9ak_ronnie-coleman-1999-mr-olympia-part_sport
-
LOL ND honestly believes that all the videos of the 99 olympia are all traced back to Bizzy's original uploaded video.. LOL
LOL
so, I guess you think the shawn ray 99 video posted in this thread is faked too right? LOL
is there a global conspiracy with that too? there must be LMAO!
::) ::)
this keeps getting better and better.
-
notice bizzy's video, the current youtube vid of shawn ray and the current 99 youtube vid are all the same..
but ND believes they all must be faked in order to save his one armed hero LOL
how fucking sad.
does dorian know you are being this stupid?
my guess is he would tell you to shut the fuck up about faked videos and call you an internet fanboy LOL
-
notice bizzy's video, the current youtube vid of shawn ray and the current 99 youtube vid are all the same..
but ND believes they all must be faked in order to save his one armed hero LOL
how fucking sad.
does dorian know you are being this stupid?
my guess is he would tell you to shut the fuck up about faked videos and call you an internet fanboy LOL
exactly the point retard THEY ARE ALL THE SAME ;)
fuck me you are stupid
-
no genius, the reason that bizzy's video matches other videos on the web is not because its fake.
its because its NOT fake.
duh.
::)
honestly, do you know how stupid you look with all this conspiracy bullshit?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3w9ak_ronnie-coleman-1999-mr-olympia-part_sport
no conspiracy Bizzy and YOU were busted using worked screencaps ;) you think if you keep posting the same video from a ' new and independent ' source it changes that fact? only a moron like you would
you also were busted using morphed pics and caught making up quotes ;)
-
they are the same as the dvd/vhs versions too.
always have been. forcedreps owned your asses about that long ago.
that other bad quality vid on youtube you keep posting is probably not from the actual IFBB dvd/vhs.
the camera work was never that bad.
and that video you think is new has been around for ages now. LOL
keep digging ND. you are getting deeper and deeper.
-
they are the same as the dvd/vhs versions too.
always have been. forcedreps owned your asses about that long ago.
that other bad quality vid on youtube you keep posting is probably not from the actual IFBB dvd/vhs.
and that video you think is new has been around for ages now. LOL
keep digging ND. you are getting deeper and deeper.
another LIE he didn ;)'t own shit moron I never once claimed his were fake dumbass ;)
oppssss sorry a REAL video of the Olympia and guess what it looks NOTHING like the one you keep posting from the same source dumbass
-
that vid is so poorly done, dark, bad quality etc.
no wonder you think ronnie 98 was better than 99 ::).
I love this. ND clinging to a bad quality amateur video to save his 99 fake IFBB video argument.
just when you think this couldn't get any more sad, it does.
LMAO
-
that vid is so poorly done, dark, bad quality etc.
no wonder you think ronnie 98 was better than 99 ::).
I love this. ND clinging to an amateur video to save his 99 fake IFBB video argument.
just when you think this couldn't get any more sad, it does.
LMAO
yet this video matches the pictures from Muscletime and guess what your one from Bizzy doesn't ;)
what else are you gonna say? you're fucked and you know it.
fake screencaps , posting the same link to Bizzy's work and lying by claiming it's a new and independent source , using morphed pics , making up quotes these are all things you were busted doing , it's not like you're gonna admit it ;D but you can't deny either
I enjoy exposing you because you're a fucking retard ;) keep posting and I'll keep showing everyone just how fucking dumb you are
-
yet this video matches the pictures from Muscletime and guess what your one from Bizzy doesn't
what else are you gonna say? you're fucked and you know it.
bwahahahahaaha!!! so now pictures have to match videos? LMAO!!
hey genius, magazine pictures never match videos dumbass ::).
eg:
I love this. you are getting more and more fucked the more you try and argue the videos are faked!
-
observe getbiggers: now ND must argue that all the 1993 Olympia videos are faked too
after all, the screenshots don't match the magazine photos! LMAO
ND, please keep trying to prove your anti ronnie pro dorian global conspiracy.
please.
its a fucking riot at your own expense!
-
bwahahahahaaha!!! so now pictures have to match videos? LMAO!!
hey genius, magazine pictures never match videos dumbass ::).
eg:
I love this. you are getting more and more fucked the more you try and argue the videos are faked!
Where did I post that? I said they are closer to the pics Muscletime posts ;)
and guess what? no one busted anyone using Dorian screencaps ;) Kevin Horoton one of the best in the business busted who? ( YOU ;) ) and who? ( Bizzy ) using whose? ( forcedreps ) ;)
in the end YOU have been busted many times knowingly using morphed pics , worked screencaps , and making up quotes , nothing you can type changes this ;)
-
observe getbiggers: now ND must argue that all the 1993 Olympia videos are faked too
after all, the screenshots don't match the magazine photos! LMAO
ND, please keep trying to prove your anti ronnie pro dorian global conspiracy.
please.
its a fucking riot at your own expense!
lame attempt at diversion , how many of the 93 Olympia screencaps did Kevin Horton say were enhanced? opppsssss that's right NONE he busted who? ( YOU ) using enhanced screencaps from who? ( Bizzy ) you can't escape this and never will ;)
no conspiracy just you getting busted by the best in the business ;) you can't escape this fan boy no matter how many diversions you attempt to make YOU ARE BUSTED ;)
-
LOL Kevin Horton ran away when I showed he was wrong.
forgot about that didn't you?
ND tries to rewrite getbig history to prove his ridiculous conspiracy theories LMAO
here is a hint ND: the 99 clips are not faked, not enhanced etc.
ronnie was better than he was in 98 and better than dorian ever was as he appeared on the 99 stage.
stop with all the conspiracy bullshit and deal with it like a man.
rather than continue to embarrass yourself in public further.
-
Lets analyze Kevin Horton's quote ;D now we must remind you who exactly he is , one of the very best contest photographers in the history of the sport
I'd suggest getting your facts straight something you always had a huge problem doing ;D I've only pointed out that the ones you've used to support your opinion have been enhanced. hahahaha busted and it wasn't the first time either ;D please show me a single post I've made claiming any conspiracy a diversionary ploy you constantly try , this is an old quote and you were busted trying it then and guess whose still trying and failing because otherwise you are doing what seems to come very easily to you which is distorting other people words or images damn two-for-one special lmao he busted you for using distorted images and words and so did I ;D morphed pics , enhanced screencaps , made-up quotes , see a pattern here? to justify your stance on a very boring subject. if anyone is doing any " owning " it's you on yourself LMFAO no truer words are spoken ;D
no conspiracy just you getting busted ;) you CAN NOT counter this
-
LOL Kevin Horton ran away when I showed he was wrong.
forgot about that didn't you?
ND tries to rewrite getbig history to prove his ridiculous conspiracy theories LMAO
here is a hint ND: the 99 clips are not faked, not enhanced etc.
ronnie was better than he was in 98 and better than dorian ever was as he appeared on the 99 stage.
stop with all the conspiracy bullshit and deal with it like a man.
rather than continue to embarrass yourself in public further.
LOL Kevin Horton ran away when I showed he was wrong.
forgot about that didn't you?
yes everyone is running from the retard HAHAHAHAHAHA no one runs from you more fantasy on your behalf , like I ran from you yet here I am again beating you over the head with facts ;) the only one who ran from you is your buddy Bizzy who ran after he was exposed LMFAO at least he had the right idea you're to stupid to run and now take up all the slack for his handywork ;D
ND tries to rewrite getbig history to prove his ridiculous conspiracy theories LMAO
here is a hint ND: the 99 clips are not faked, not enhanced etc.
LMMFAO
ronnie was better than he was in 98 and better than dorian ever was as he appeared on the 99 stage.
stop with all the conspiracy bullshit and deal with it like a man.
rather than continue to embarrass yourself in public further.
hehehehehehehehe now if you could only get anyone of credibility to prove your point ;) oh wait you have Bizzy and the other guys with 29 posts LMMFAO
like I said you are far from reality on everything you type
-
8)
-
8)
Ronnie was ' progress ' hahahahahah
-
Hahahah! Hulkster getting slapped like a bitch, desperatley trying to validate his video by posting others that link back to Bizzy's original, how cute.... uess what Hulk, your vid doesnt match up to ANY other media, not pics, not vids, nothing, one of these things is not like the other..... get over it, ND proved you wrong, the only person you have backing you is a gimmick, and Ronnie Coleman himself bitched slapped your face all over the place. Lets see, NO ONE started trying to claim 99 was his best until that sharpened caps of bizzy's started circulating. Funny thing about you agreeing with mccough, cause Mcough also thinks Coleman would get bitchslapped by Yates like you do by ND.
-
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:yqSjmz2iGwdOmM:http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p234/mc214u/Ronnie_Coleman_03_1280.jpg&t=1)
-
LOL Kevin Horton ran away when I showed he was wrong.
forgot about that didn't you?
ND tries to rewrite getbig history to prove his ridiculous conspiracy theories LMAO
here is a hint ND: the 99 clips are not faked, not enhanced etc.
ronnie was better than he was in 98 and better than dorian ever was as he appeared on the 99 stage.
stop with all the conspiracy bullshit and deal with it like a man.
rather than continue to embarrass yourself in public further.
Youre the one trying to rewrite history you fucking douchebag!
Youre the one that got fucking owned by Horton when he proved bizzys caps came from a sharpened source, you fucktard, and you looked like the fucking retard you are! Stop projecting your embarassment on someone else and stop being the mentally fucked little weasel you are. Nothing you say or do is going to change the fact that he made you look like a total tool!
Now the fact that your trying to push that sharpened vid when all of the sources lead back to Bizzy is pathetic, but you actually think people are buying your bullshit!
There is no way you have friends in real life, you re a fucking weasel, you have no clue how retarded you look, and how people percieve you.
-
ND and Hulkster need to get married :P :P The man love is strong between the two of them.
-
ND and Hulkster need to get married :P :P The man love is strong between the two of them.
;D
-
;D
When they purchased a house after the honeymoon, each one can have a room a room dedicated to their favorite bodybuilder. :P :P
-
Im pretty sure no one could stand being around Hulkster.
He exhibits many traits of a scorned woman, passive aggressive, saying shit happened differently than it did, stalking them around, projecting his problems on others, inability to take responsability, his emotions blind him to facts, he refuses to accept something when he loses face, etc.
He acts like a bitch.
-
sure it did Ronnie was a deserving winner but make NO mistake it was close and he was ' overlooked ' excuse is just that an excuse , Roland Cziurlock was overlooked in 1994 where did he place? if Ronnie was ' overlooked ' he wouldn't have won
Good point, but I still think Ronnie won that contest by far. I mean his conditioning was far better than the rest with more size, pretty similar to how Dorian used to beat the other guys too.
I also don't think a 93 Dorian would have that much of a size advantage vs a 98 Ronnie, he may have weighed more but the visual appaerance of size would be pretty similar I think.
-
its a little better with even more size.
compare the clips.
notice how when ronnie hits the mm in 99, his chest is a roadmap of detail and vascularity. in the 98 clip, nothing happens. notice the rear lat spread. the christmas tree of detail is loud and clear in 99, not so in 98. its obvious when you really compare the clips.
now, the nuthuggers know the clip shows 99 to be better, and do you know what their way of refuting this is? they simply claim the 99 videos are faked LOL ::)
yes, they really are that sad. :-\
I don't know, I truly see him drier in 98.
He was bigger in 99 and had better seperation, but in 98 he was drier.
I don't think those videos of 99 are fake though, every other video from the same contest like Shawn Ray or Lee Priest posing has the same quality.
-
Im pretty sure no one could stand being around Hulkster.
He exhibits many traits of a scorned woman, passive aggressive, saying shit happened differently than it did, stalking them around, projecting his problems on others, inability to take responsability, his emotions blind him to facts, he refuses to accept something when he loses face, etc.
He acts like a bitch.
spoken like a down and beaten guy.
seek refuge with your fellow conspiracy theorists. all two of them. LOL
-
the new guy board on getbig:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=70.0
bwahahahahahahaaha!!
-
Is it just me, or has Hulkster become a "lone wolf" on this board? Those who prefer Ronnie for legitimate reasons have distanced themselves from him because his arguments are based on falsities. Maybe that should tell you something, Hulkster -- you're delusional.
-
8)
Once again Dorian never took that 93 b&w package to the stage.
-
Once again Dorian never took that 93 b&w package to the stage.
Regardless, his 1993 victory was arguably the most dominant ever . . .
-
Regardless, his 1993 victory was arguably the most dominant ever . . .
I agree, but he never faced a prime Ronnie. :)
-
spoken like a down and beaten guy.
seek refuge with your fellow conspiracy theorists. all two of them. LOL
Says the guy who still thinks he never posted a enhanced screencap ;D I laugh at your stupidity ;D
-
Is it just me, or has Hulkster become a "lone wolf" on this board? Those who prefer Ronnie for legitimate reasons have distanced themselves from him because his arguments are based on falsities. Maybe that should tell you something, Hulkster -- you're delusional.
nope he's all alone , like I said people who generally ' know ' Ronnie is better than Dorian feel Hulkster is a fucking idiot with a very good reason
he likes to type I run from him , Kevin Horton ran from him , when in fact it's him who ran from the truth and facts and his buddy Bizzy who ran from him after he was busted.
-
Once again Dorian never took that 93 b&w package to the stage.
And once again that has absolutely nothing to do with it. The ' argument ' was who at their best would beat whom , many experts feel this is the best Dorian looked , Dorian admittedly said he was losing nothing but pure muscle in hopes of getting harder & drier for a contest and the general consensus among those in the know said he could compete on-stage with this showing and beat everyone hands down
-
And once again that has absolutely nothing to do with it. The ' argument ' was who at their best would beat whom , many experts feel this is the best Dorian looked , Dorian admittedly said he was losing nothing but pure muscle in hopes of getting harder & drier for a contest and the general consensus among those in the know said he could compete on-stage with this showing and beat everyone hands down
Yes, but how do you know how Ronnie looked "x" weeks out from "x" contest? How do you know his absolute best look wasn't captured unlike Dorian?
I think its best to just use their actual contest presentations.
-
I agree, but he never faced a prime Ronnie. :)
3 points is what separated Flex from a ' prime Ronnie ' in 1998 yet we're supposed to buy he can beat Dorian even in 1993 a contest where he obliterated a near-prime Flex? that my friend makes no sense what so ever and we're not even talking about Dorian at 269lbs and the gyno would ruin it for Ronnie even if it were close.
-
Yes, but how do you know how Ronnie looked "x" weeks out from "x" contest? How do you know his absolute best look wasn't captured like Dorian?
I think its best to just use their actual contest presentations.
We don't know , although Kevin Horton did say the best he ever seen Ronnie was pre-contest I believe 2002 and if that's the case we know a few things for sure , his conditioning wouldn't be on par with Yates or his balance & proportion , funny Kevin Horton said the best he's ever seen Dorian was pre-contest 1995 and he posted the picture of Dorian from that shoot , he was 283lbs you know the picture where Hulkster claimed it was ' morphed ' and Kevin Horton said if Hulkster posted it then it probably would have been but it was untouched
-
Good point, but I still think Ronnie won that contest by far. I mean his conditioning was far better than the rest with more size, pretty similar to how Dorian used to beat the other guys too.
I also don't think a 93 Dorian would have that much of a size advantage vs a 98 Ronnie, he may have weighed more but the visual appaerance of size would be pretty similar I think.
We wouldn't know unless they were side-by-side but lets say muscular size is a push , Dorian still has balance & proportion and density & dryness , he's more complete and doesn't have bitch-tits
-
Ronnie kills dorian
-
3 points is what separated Flex from a ' prime Ronnie ' in 1998 yet we're supposed to buy he can beat Dorian even in 1993 a contest where he obliterated a near-prime Flex? that my friend makes no sense what so ever and we're not even talking about Dorian at 269lbs and the gyno would ruin it for Ronnie even if it were close.
I understand your point about the points difference, but I still don't understand how you can't see how far Ronnie was from Flex in 98 in terms of conditioning and size appaerance.
Dorian was heavier than Ronnie at both best contest presentations, but was that reflected visually on stage? I ask this because I saw your comparison pic of them in that 96 grand prix show and the visual size difference isn't that big. So if Ronnie can manage to 'look' equally or close to equally as big as Dorian while having same conditioning (98) then his only disadvantage would be balance & proportion. Symmetry would go to him.
-
We don't know , although Kevin Horton did say the best he ever seen Ronnie was pre-contest I believe 2002 and if that's the case we know a few things for sure , his conditioning wouldn't be on par with Yates or his balance & proportion , funny Kevin Horton said the best he's ever seen Dorian was pre-contest 1995 and he posted the picture of Dorian from that shoot , he was 283lbs you know the picture where Hulkster claimed it was ' morphed ' and Kevin Horton said if Hulkster posted it then it probably would have been but it was untouched
In this case of taking precontest versions into consideration I hate to admit Dorian could be better than Ronnie.
Is that the 95 shot you're talking about? I thought it was the BDB one.
-
some of you faggo ts take ronnie and dorian way too seriously.
-
some of you faggo ts take ronnie and dorian way too seriously.
;D I'm bored and have nothing better to do right now, so I might as well try to 'debate' this.
-
Youre the one trying to rewrite history you fucking douchebag!
Youre the one that got fucking owned by Horton when he proved bizzys caps came from a sharpened source, you fucktard, and you looked like the fucking retard you are! Stop projecting your embarassment on someone else and stop being the mentally fucked little weasel you are. Nothing you say or do is going to change the fact that he made you look like a total tool!
Now the fact that your trying to push that sharpened vid when all of the sources lead back to Bizzy is pathetic, but you actually think people are buying your bullshit!
There is no way you have friends in real life, you re a fucking weasel, you have no clue how retarded you look, and how people percieve you.
I couldn't have said it better myself ! you can see his tactics haven't changed he tried the same shit on Kevin Horton , the conspiracy , changing his words around , denying the obvious.
If Hulkster would have just said " hey I didn't know they were worked I apologize " it would have been the end of it but this moron kept using them even after being busted and he doesn't care , the sad part about all of this is , it's not even his best year lmao another thing he refuses to admit in the face of overwhelming facts , he thinks if he keeps posting the same shit over-and-over it will then become truth but dam it we're always here rubbing his face in his own shit
the funny thing is he had forcedreps screencaps to use he same ones Kevin Horton compared to Bizzy's to show dummy he was using enhanced ones , I posted the entire coverage of the 1999 Mr Olympia from several magazines and then the Muscletime scans , so he had plenty of legitimate sources to use but he kept using the worked ones.
but hey that's him in a nuttshell when facts contradict reality then keep denying , he was not only busted using oversharpened images , he was busted using morphed pics on multiple occasions , and I busted him making up quotes that don't exist and he posted quotes out of contest it's part of his deceptive nature because he knows for a fact he's wrong , like when he posts an unflexed Dorian compared to Ronnie , everything he does calls his motives into play
It's like Kevin Horton said when he started using manipulated images to prove his point his credibility was seriously compromised and this is where we are now , he's still claiming the opposite of reality but I do enjoy making him look like a fucking retard.
-
I understand your point about the points difference, but I still don't understand how you can't see how far Ronnie was from Flex in 98 in terms of conditioning and size appaerance.
Dorian was heavier than Ronnie at both best contest presentations, but was that reflected visually on stage? I ask this because I saw your comparison pic of them in that 96 grand prix show and the visual size difference isn't that big. So if Ronnie can manage to 'look' equally or close to equally as big as Dorian while having same conditioning (98) then his only disadvantage would be balance & proportion. Symmetry would go to him.
I understand your point about the points difference, but I still don't understand how you can't see how far Ronnie was from Flex in 98 in terms of conditioning and size appaerance.
you're severely under-estimating Flex , I wont say 1999 was a close contest because Flex was crushed but 1998 was extremely close either way you slice it , Flex was slightly off in 1998 because he competed at the Arnold and still pushed Ronnie , he said outright if he come in that shape he would beat Ronnie
the 1998 Olympia like many people said was won by Ronnie because of his hams & glutes which Flex had a problem with and Ronnie didn't and when contests are close it's things like that that can separate a winner from a loser
Dorian was heavier than Ronnie at both best contest presentations, but was that reflected visually on stage? I ask this because I saw your comparison pic of them in that 96 grand prix show and the visual size difference isn't that big. So if Ronnie can manage to 'look' equally or close to equally as big as Dorian while having same conditioning (98) then his only disadvantage would be balance & proportion. Symmetry would go to him.
conditioning was never the same everyone knows this and Dorian in the 96 grand prix looks bigger to me and looks , looks more complete , looks wider to boot , I think if it were hypothetically close what would swing it in Dorian's favor would be he's more complete , he had better posing & presentation and Ronnie would have bitch-tits and that's saying if it were close
-
Ronnie kills dorian
How the gimmicks start crawling out of the woodwork now.
-
In this case of taking precontest versions into consideration I hate to admit Dorian could be better than Ronnie.
Is that the 95 shot you're talking about? I thought it was the BDB one.
Yes that's the one Kevin posted he's 283lbs and this is in 1995 years before Ronnie competed at a similar weight in 2003
the back double biceps is from 1993
-
How the gimmicks start crawling out of the woodwork now.
HEHEHEHEHEHEH it's probably Hulkster or Bizzy ;D
-
you're severely under-estimating Flex , I wont say 1999 was a close contest because Flex was crushed but 1998 was extremely close either way you slice it , Flex was slightly off in 1998 because he competed at the Arnold and still pushed Ronnie , he said outright if he come in that shape he would beat Ronnie
the 1998 Olympia like many people said was won by Ronnie because of his hams & glutes which Flex had a problem with and Ronnie didn't and when contests are close it's things like that that can separate a winner from a loser
conditioning was never the same everyone knows this and Dorian in the 96 grand prix looks bigger to me and looks , looks more complete , looks wider to boot , I think if it were hypothetically close what would swing it in Dorian's favor would be he's more complete , he had better posing & presentation and Ronnie would have bitch-tits and that's saying if it were close
you're severely under-estimating Flex , I wont say 1999 was a close contest because Flex was crushed but 1998 was extremely close either way you slice it , Flex was slightly off in 1998 because he competed at the Arnold and still pushed Ronnie , he said outright if he come in that shape he would beat Ronnie
the 1998 Olympia like many people said was won by Ronnie because of his hams & glutes which Flex had a problem with and Ronnie didn't and when contests are close it's things like that that can separate a winner from a loser
To you did Flex have close conditioning to Ronnie? Did he carry more size? What were Flex's advantages? Other than abs nothing.
conditioning was never the same everyone knows this and Dorian in the 96 grand prix looks bigger to me and looks , looks more complete , looks wider to boot , I think if it were hypothetically close what would swing it in Dorian's favor would be he's more complete , he had better posing & presentation and Ronnie would have bitch-tits and that's saying if it were close
Dorian looks bigger to you? ??? The only thing Dorian has 'bigger' are calves. Arms, chest, quads, and delts are all the same size between the two and Ronnie has better shape to some of them.
Dorian looks wider because Ronnie is slightly turned to the left.
-
To you did Flex have close conditioning to Ronnie? Did he carry more size? What were Flex's advantages? Other than abs nothing.
Dorian looks bigger to you? ??? The only thing Dorian has 'bigger' are calves. Arms, chest, quads, and delts are all the same size between the two and Ronnie has better shape to some of them.
Dorian looks wider because Ronnie is slightly turned to the left.
To you did Flex have close conditioning to Ronnie? Did he carry more size? What were Flex's advantages? Other than abs nothing.
his conditioning was close but what did him in was his hams & glutes , Flex NEVER EVER need to carry more size to beat Ronnie , he had no advantages according to you other than abs this shows how ignorant you are , he beat Ronnie as many times as Ronnie beat him did he do so all those time with just abs? ::)
Dorian looks bigger to you? ??? The only thing Dorian has 'bigger' are calves. Arms, chest, quads, and delts are all the same size between the two and Ronnie has better shape to some of them.
Dorian looks wider because Ronnie is slightly turned to the left.
Sure he looks bigger all-over and he's not even close to his best but neither is Ronnie , Dorian looks more complete to boot and the conditioning is night & day
in this pic both are dead on Ronnie isn't flexed yet but I think it's clear who has wider clavicles
-
To you did Flex have close conditioning to Ronnie? Did he carry more size? What were Flex's advantages? Other than abs nothing.
Dorian looks bigger to you? ??? The only thing Dorian has 'bigger' are calves. Arms, chest, quads, and delts are all the same size between the two and Ronnie has better shape to some of them.
Dorian looks wider because Ronnie is slightly turned to the left.
It isn't close. Yates murders him.
-
his conditioning was close but what did him in was his hams & glutes , Flex NEVER EVER need to carry more size to beat Ronnie , he had no advantages according to you other than abs this shows how ignorant you are , he beat Ronnie as many times as Ronnie beat him did he do so all those time with just abs? ::)
Sure he looks bigger all-over and he's not even close to his best but neither is Ronnie , Dorian looks more complete to boot and the conditioning is night & day
in this pic both are dead on Ronnie isn't flexed yet but I think it's clear who has wider clavicles
his conditioning was close but what did him in was his hams & glutes , Flex NEVER EVER need to carry more size to beat Ronnie , he had no advantages according to you other than abs this shows how ignorant you are , he beat Ronnie as many times as Ronnie beat him did he do so all those time with just abs? ::)
1. He beat Ronnie when Ronnie was far from his best.
2. If Flex never needed more size to beat Ronnie, then why did he tried to play the size game with him? If Flex didn't carry more size and was beaten in conditioning too what else did he have left?
3. Since I'm ignorant and you're the "expert" then what were Flex's advantages in 98?
Sure he looks bigger all-over and he's not even close to his best but neither is Ronnie , Dorian looks more complete to boot and the conditioning is night & day
in this pic both are dead on Ronnie isn't flexed yet but I think it's clear who has wider clavicles
Take the same pic with Ronnie in 98 and the conditioning won't be a night & day difference. And yes Dorian would've better balance & proportion, but Ronnie would've symmetry for him.
As far as the size thing it seems we're looking at different pics. :-\
-
(http://api.ning.com/files/fmHj4TBc*GGzJysXdPdNSlU-fiakCXjrMoFjS3k1GZEBUYfLbwkLFl1STLDyrzsJfjA7nfElN4m*dj7Q6yj1LgG5BBAh*Es8/stfuampgtfodemotivationalposter1208138364.jpg)
;D I guess you didn't expect your thread to go as far as this didn't you?
You started it so now just deal with it punk. :D
-
To you did Flex have close conditioning to Ronnie? Did he carry more size? What were Flex's advantages? Other than abs nothing.
Dorian looks bigger to you? ??? The only thing Dorian has 'bigger' are calves. Arms, chest, quads, and delts are all the same size between the two and Ronnie has better shape to some of them.
Dorian looks wider because Ronnie is slightly turned to the left.
It isn't close. Yates murders him.
Those comparison scans posted by ND are from the 96 grand prix correct? Same as this video of Dorian you just posted. Ronnie looks close to equally bigger there....now bring 98 Ronnie conditioning into it and its not as far as you think.
Explain why/how Dorian murders him.
-
1. He beat Ronnie when Ronnie was far from his best.
2. If Flex never needed more size to beat Ronnie, then why did he tried to play the size game with him? If Flex didn't carry more size and was beaten in conditioning too what else did he have left?
3. Since I'm ignorant and you're the "expert" then what were Flex's advantages in 98?
Take the same pic with Ronnie in 98 and the conditioning won't be a night & day difference. And yes Dorian would've better balance & proportion, but Ronnie would've symmetry for him.
As far as the size thing it seems we're looking at different pics. :-\
1. He beat Ronnie when Ronnie was far from his best.
2. If Flex never needed more size to beat Ronnie, then why did he tried to play the size game with him? If Flex didn't carry more size and was beaten in conditioning too what else did he have left?
3. Since I'm ignorant and you're the "expert" then what were Flex's advantages in 98?
1 - Ronnie beat Flex when he was far from his best what's that have to do with anything?
2 - he never tried to play the size game with him , in fact every time he beat Ronnie he was noticeably smaller , he tried to add more size true doesn't mean he was trying to beat Ronnie at his game , Flex always admitted he was a hard gainer and size always came very slowly for him
3 - you're ignorant because of the gross over-statement and for trying to claim if these parts and all better than they all add up for the better whole not how it works
Take the same pic with Ronnie in 98 and the conditioning won't be a night & day difference. And yes Dorian would've better balance & proportion, but Ronnie would've symmetry for him.
As far as the size thing it seems we're looking at different pics. :-\
conditioning will always be night & day , it's really not open for discussion even compared to 1998 , Peter McGough said outright that ( at that time ) he felt the best physique he's seen was Ronnie 2001 yet he was NEVER harder or drier than Dorian , never means not 1998 , not 2001 , not 1999 , Dorian already confirmed this and said he had better conditioning than Ronnie.
Dorian at his best Olympia which is 1995 or 1993 would be bigger , harder , drier have better balance & proportion more complete and he's a better poser and he has NO gyno
now bump it up to Dorian at 283lbs lets say conditioning in a push compared to 1998 , Dorian obliterates him on size , balance & proportion , he's complete and he's a better poser
you pick a year and I'll show you how Dorian would beat him
-
1 - Ronnie beat Flex when he was far from his best what's that have to do with anything?
2 - he never tried to play the size game with him , in fact every time he beat Ronnie he was noticeably smaller , he tried to add more size true doesn't mean he was trying to beat Ronnie at his game , Flex always admitted he was a hard gainer and size always came very slowly for him
3 - you're ignorant because of the gross over-statement and for trying to claim if these parts and all better than they all add up for the better whole not how it works
conditioning will always be night & day , it's really not open for discussion even compared to 1998 , Peter McGough said outright that ( at that time ) he felt the best physique he's seen was Ronnie 2001 yet he was NEVER harder or drier than Dorian , never means not 1998 , not 2001 , not 1999 , Dorian already confirmed this and said he had better conditioning than Ronnie.
Dorian at his best Olympia which is 1995 or 1993 would be bigger , harder , drier have better balance & proportion more complete and he's a better poser and he has NO gyno
now bump it up to Dorian at 283lbs lets say conditioning in a push compared to 1998 , Dorian obliterates him on size , balance & proportion , he's complete and he's a better poser
you pick a year and I'll show you how Dorian would beat him
1 - Ronnie beat Flex when he was far from his best what's that have to do with anything?
2 - he never tried to play the size game with him , in fact every time he beat Ronnie he was noticeably smaller , he tried to add more size true doesn't mean he was trying to beat Ronnie at his game , Flex always admitted he was a hard gainer and size always came very slowly for him
3 - you're ignorant because of the gross over-statement and for trying to claim if these parts and all better than they all add up for the better whole not how it works
I'll ask one more time, what were Flex's advantages in 98?
conditioning will always be night & day , it's really not open for discussion even compared to 1998 , Peter McGough said outright that ( at that time ) he felt the best physique he's seen was Ronnie 2001 yet he was NEVER harder or drier than Dorian , never means not 1998 , not 2001 , not 1999 , Dorian already confirmed this and said he had better conditioning than Ronnie.
Dorian at his best Olympia which is 1995 or 1993 would be bigger , harder , drier have better balance & proportion more complete and he's a better poser and he has NO gyno
now bump it up to Dorian at 283lbs lets say conditioning in a push compared to 1998 , Dorian obliterates him on size , balance & proportion , he's complete and he's a better poser
you pick a year and I'll show you how Dorian would beat him
I guess this is going nowhere: you still say Dorian is bigger with such certainty when its much likely Ronnie would look just as big as him despite being lighter. You say Dorian kills Ronnie in conditioning and use McGough's word on it when he clearly said "Ronnie was never harder or drier", he never said Ronnie wasn't equally as conditioned or close to it. I know Dorian has the advantage on balance & proportion, but you're ignoring symmetry.
I think it would be close, you think Dorian would win easily.......let's just leave it at that (some people are getting tired of this thread apparently ;D)
-
I'll ask one more time, what were Flex's advantages in 98?
I guess this is going nowhere: you still say Dorian is bigger with such certainty when its much likely Ronnie would look just as big as him despite being lighter. You say Dorian kills Ronnie in conditioning and use McGough's word on it when he clearly said "Ronnie was never harder or drier", he never said Ronnie wasn't equally as conditioned or close to it. I know Dorian has the advantage on balance & proportion, but you're ignoring symmetry.
I think it would be close, you think Dorian would win easily.......let's just leave it at that (some people are getting tired of this thread apparently ;D)
I'll ask one more time, what were Flex's advantages in 98?
abs ::) triceps , proportions , symmetry overall physique harmony , abdominals , intercostals , serratus , lower lats striations , posing , he had plenty of advantages to claim he only had abs is ignorant and a gross overstatement
I guess this is going nowhere: you still say Dorian is bigger with such certainty when its much likely Ronnie would look just as big as him despite being lighter. You say Dorian kills Ronnie in conditioning and use McGough's word on it when he clearly said "Ronnie was never harder or drier", he never said Ronnie wasn't equally as conditioned or close to it. I know Dorian has the advantage on balance & proportion, but you're ignoring symmetry.
yes Dorian at 260lbs ( 1995 ) bone dry & rock hard will look noticeably bigger than Ronnie ( 1998 ) at 249lbs , Dorian at 269lbs ( 93 B&W ) would make him look even smaller , Dorian at 283lbs ( pre-contest 1995 ) I mean get serious , Ronnie at his best is around 247-249lbs max , Dorian at what many consider his best is almost 20lbs heavier ( 93 precontest ) if you don't think I can say with a degree of certainty that Dorian would make him look smaller knowing this you're being silly
I think everyone says Dorian kills Ronnie in conditioning , I honestly don't see anyone of credibility claiming otherwise , in fact Dorian said he had better conditioning when asked if he could beat Ronnie , McGough didn't say a LOT of things what he did say is Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian , I think it's obvious who does and I like to be fair and say maybe Ronnie did but only at his lightest 98/01 , it's easy being light and hard much , much harder to replicate at heavier weights
Ronnie 98 his best conditioning , he goes up 7-8lbs in 99 and his conditioning suffers for it , gains another 7lbs from 99 to 00 and guess what his conditioning yet again suffers , see a pattern here? Dorian could get away with being heavier while maintaining this same conditioning , there is a vast difference between being 269lbs hard as nails and dry as the dessert than 249lbs , so lets say the conditioning is a push , Dorians still carrying more muscular bulk with equal conditioning so we're back to the other criteria
balance & proportion , posing & presentation , who's more complete? whose more complete? see where this is going? and symmetry is part if balance & proportion I thought I explained this? Ronnie meets part of this criteria better than Dorian , smaller waist , smaller hips , smaller joints , then factor in the other part of symmetry balance & proportion , Dorian , now seeing all rounds are physique rounds , we must now apply ALL of this criteria at once
Muscular Bulk - Dorian
Density - lets push
dryness - lets push
balance - Dorian
proportion - Dorian
' symmetry ' - Ronnie
posing - Dorian
presentation - Dorian
gyno - Ronnie
take a guess who the criteria favors?
I think it would be close, you think Dorian would win easily.......let's just leave it at that (some people are getting tired of this thread apparently ;D)
I don't think 1998 would be close at all , maybe 2001 would be maybe 03 , it's all speculation but what we do know if Dorian beat Ronnie 8 times ;)
-
Is it just me, or has Hulkster become a "lone wolf" on this board? Those who prefer Ronnie for legitimate reasons have distanced themselves from him because his arguments are based on falsities. Maybe that should tell you something, Hulkster -- you're delusional.
yes, it is just you. speaking of falsities, check out your fellow nuthuggers conspiracy theories about faked video clips LOL ::)
-
Yes, but how do you know how Ronnie looked "x" weeks out from "x" contest? How do you know his absolute best look wasn't captured unlike Dorian?
I think its best to just use their actual contest presentations.
the nuthuggers don't want to compare contest to contest because dorian loses.
even his signature lat spread gets beat by a 99 ronnie.
and they know it.
-
^
notice how ronnie in 99 looks very much like Flex 93 only with more size and lats.
its the same old story:
dorian had the size and the back.
ronnie had the size, the back but the aesthetics to complement it all.
dorian never did. he was a fridge. the jay cutler of the 90's as Pumpster used to say LOL
-
the nuthuggers don't want to compare contest to contest because dorian loses.
even his signature lat spread gets beat by a 99 ronnie.
and they know it.
Hey you get credit for posting legit pics ;)
no ONE beats Dorian in this pose ;)
-
^
notice how ronnie in 99 looks very much like Flex 93 only with more size and lats.
its the same old story:
dorian had the size and the back.
ronnie had the size, the back but the aesthetics to complement it all.
dorian never did. he was a fridge. the jay cutler of the 90's as Pumpster used to say LOL
Dorian had calves and more lats and more size , Dorian had better density & dryness and he had better balance & proportion , Dorian = more complete and a better poser ;)
-
283 lbs would make Ronnie 1999 look like a tiny-tit ;)
-
here's the problem
any comparison pictures we post don't count because they are "not to scale" and all the videos are "tampered with".
apparently the only picture that counts is a prime dorian vs. a young ronnie.
doesn't that seem strange? is there an excuse for every visual?
-
here's the problem
any comparison pictures we post don't count because they are "not to scale" and all the videos are "tampered with".
its the central dogma of the nuthuggers.
the pics/vids show ronnie to be better so they need a way around this.
so they simply claim the comparisons are false and the vids are faked.
::)
its really stupid.
-
here's the problem
any comparison pictures we post don't count because they are "not to scale" and all the videos are "tampered with".
apparently the only picture that counts is a prime dorian vs. a young ronnie.
doesn't that seem strange? is there an excuse for every visual?
No the problem is any ' comparison ' pictures you post are created by a Ronnie fanboy who scales them heavily in his favor , when Ronnie has calves equal or bigger than Dorian there is a problem , when Dorian has a smaller waist & hips than Ronnie there is a problem , when Ronnie's clavicles suddenly make Dorian appear as narrow as Shawn Ray there is a problem
the picture of a young Ronnie counts why? we know it's them side-by-side in reality , we also know these facts , clavicle width can not be changed , nor can muscle length , or proportions or balance which all obviously happen when the fan-boy creations ' comparing ' Ronnie to Dorian. It's simple when you put some thought into it but you need those ' comparisons ' to be ' accurate '
and now you're reduced to lying like Hulkster , please show us where anyone claimed ' all the videos are tampered with ' I know you can't do it so I'll spare you the embarrassment of finding something no one claimed , we know for a fact ( there is that pesky word again ) a lot of screencaps Hulkster was using were tampered with , no one is claiming all so when you say that you're simply making things up or are willing to overlook facts like you obviously are in the ' comparisons '
Like Kevin Horton said , when Hulkster posted manipulated images to support your argument your credibility becomes severely compromised , but hey look at what Ronnie fans have done so far , knowingly posted enhanced screencaps , used multiple morphed pictures , made-up several quotes but hey they know for a fact that Ronnie is much better than Dorian ever was yet they are reduced to this ;D sounds like confidence to me ;)
-
its the central dogma of the nuthuggers.
the pics/vids show ronnie to be better so they need a way around this.
so they simply claim the comparisons are false and the vids are faked.
::)
its really stupid.
The facts will always haunt you , the fact that you were busted by a professional graphic artist i still haunting you , the fact Kevin Horton one of the best contest photographers of all time busted you using enhanced pics , the fact that I busted you using morphed pictures , and making up quotes all of these facts are haunting to this day ;)
and there you go , lying again the ' comparisons ' aren't false , they're just not accurate they were made by an obvious Ronnie fan-boy who scaled them heavily in Ronnie's favor , who ever used the word false? and ' vids ' which ' vids ' ? the one from the same source you were busted trying to pass off as a ' new ' and ' independent ' source three times? ;)
You're your own worse enemy and stupidity makes you this way. There were plenty of very high quality scans from Ronnie 1999 Olympia yet you wouldn't post them because you were to stupid to realize your enhanced screencaps were just that , enhanced ! you liked them better and tried to pass them off as ' overwhelming visual evidence ' LMFAO when in fact there were the creation of a fan-boy who ran from you when he was busted and left you to handle the fall-out ;)
like Kevin Horton said the moment you pushed these screencaps as ' reality ' is the moment your credibility became severely compromised , now you're a joke reduced to defending Bizzy at all turns and claiming facts don't exist :-\ and the worse part is no-one of any value cares about the 1999 Mr Olympia , it's not his best by a long shot only stupid people like you cling to it , people to dumb to come to reality and realize that they were wrong all along , but hey I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow it's hard letting go after you pushed all this junk for years and ended up completely and utterly wrong ;D
Hulkster you don't have to be stuck-on-stupid you choose to and as long as you keep contradicting facts I'll be here running your nose in your own shit.
-
SERIOUSLY GET A LIFE
-
abs ::) triceps , proportions , symmetry overall physique harmony , abdominals , intercostals , serratus , lower lats striations , posing , he had plenty of advantages to claim he only had abs is ignorant and a gross overstatement
yes Dorian at 260lbs ( 1995 ) bone dry & rock hard will look noticeably bigger than Ronnie ( 1998 ) at 249lbs , Dorian at 269lbs ( 93 B&W ) would make him look even smaller , Dorian at 283lbs ( pre-contest 1995 ) I mean get serious , Ronnie at his best is around 247-249lbs max , Dorian at what many consider his best is almost 20lbs heavier ( 93 precontest ) if you don't think I can say with a degree of certainty that Dorian would make him look smaller knowing this you're being silly
I think everyone says Dorian kills Ronnie in conditioning , I honestly don't see anyone of credibility claiming otherwise , in fact Dorian said he had better conditioning when asked if he could beat Ronnie , McGough didn't say a LOT of things what he did say is Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian , I think it's obvious who does and I like to be fair and say maybe Ronnie did but only at his lightest 98/01 , it's easy being light and hard much , much harder to replicate at heavier weights
Ronnie 98 his best conditioning , he goes up 7-8lbs in 99 and his conditioning suffers for it , gains another 7lbs from 99 to 00 and guess what his conditioning yet again suffers , see a pattern here? Dorian could get away with being heavier while maintaining this same conditioning , there is a vast difference between being 269lbs hard as nails and dry as the dessert than 249lbs , so lets say the conditioning is a push , Dorians still carrying more muscular bulk with equal conditioning so we're back to the other criteria
balance & proportion , posing & presentation , who's more complete? whose more complete? see where this is going? and symmetry is part if balance & proportion I thought I explained this? Ronnie meets part of this criteria better than Dorian , smaller waist , smaller hips , smaller joints , then factor in the other part of symmetry balance & proportion , Dorian , now seeing all rounds are physique rounds , we must now apply ALL of this criteria at once
Muscular Bulk - Dorian
Density - lets push
dryness - lets push
balance - Dorian
proportion - Dorian
' symmetry ' - Ronnie
posing - Dorian
presentation - Dorian
gyno - Ronnie
take a guess who the criteria favors?
I don't think 1998 would be close at all , maybe 2001 would be maybe 03 , it's all speculation but what we do know if Dorian beat Ronnie 8 times ;)
Sorry xerxes, but I have to continue ;D
abs ::) triceps , proportions , symmetry overall physique harmony , abdominals , intercostals , serratus , lower lats striations , posing , he had plenty of advantages to claim he only had abs is ignorant and a gross overstatement
By abs I also meant intercostals. Triceps? Do you actually think Flex's slightly better triceps meant much? Ronnie had much better biceps than Dorian, I guess that means a lot too in a contest outcome..
Proportions? Please explain how.......Flex had the exact same problems Ronnie did in proportions: calves/upper legs and forearms/upper arms. Their physiques were pretty much alike in terms of proportions in 98.
Symmetry and overal harmony? Ronnie had the same exact physique characteristics as Flex in 98: small waist, tiny joints, great muscle bellies, etc. how does Flex have better symmetry? because of his abs?
Posing I give it to Flex.
Add this to how Ronnie was killing Flex in size and conditioning and its not all that close.
yes Dorian at 260lbs ( 1995 ) bone dry & rock hard will look noticeably bigger than Ronnie ( 1998 ) at 249lbs , Dorian at 269lbs ( 93 B&W ) would make him look even smaller , Dorian at 283lbs ( pre-contest 1995 ) I mean get serious , Ronnie at his best is around 247-249lbs max , Dorian at what many consider his best is almost 20lbs heavier ( 93 precontest ) if you don't think I can say with a degree of certainty that Dorian would make him look smaller knowing this you're being silly
I think everyone says Dorian kills Ronnie in conditioning , I honestly don't see anyone of credibility claiming otherwise , in fact Dorian said he had better conditioning when asked if he could beat Ronnie , McGough didn't say a LOT of things what he did say is Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian , I think it's obvious who does and I like to be fair and say maybe Ronnie did but only at his lightest 98/01 , it's easy being light and hard much , much harder to replicate at heavier weights
Ronnie 98 his best conditioning , he goes up 7-8lbs in 99 and his conditioning suffers for it , gains another 7lbs from 99 to 00 and guess what his conditioning yet again suffers , see a pattern here? Dorian could get away with being heavier while maintaining this same conditioning , there is a vast difference between being 269lbs hard as nails and dry as the dessert than 249lbs , so lets say the conditioning is a push , Dorians still carrying more muscular bulk with equal conditioning so we're back to the other criteria
balance & proportion , posing & presentation , who's more complete? whose more complete? see where this is going? and symmetry is part if balance & proportion I thought I explained this? Ronnie meets part of this criteria better than Dorian , smaller waist , smaller hips , smaller joints , then factor in the other part of symmetry balance & proportion , Dorian , now seeing all rounds are physique rounds , we must now apply ALL of this criteria at once
Muscular Bulk - Dorian
Density - lets push
dryness - lets push
balance - Dorian
proportion - Dorian
' symmetry ' - Ronnie
posing - Dorian
presentation - Dorian
gyno - Ronnie
take a guess who the criteria favors?
I don't think 1998 would be close at all , maybe 2001 would be maybe 03 , it's all speculation but what we do know if Dorian beat Ronnie 8 times ;)
We can agree to disagree.
-
No the problem is any ' comparison ' pictures you post are created by a Ronnie fanboy who scales them heavily in his favor , when Ronnie has calves equal or bigger than Dorian there is a problem , when Dorian has a smaller waist & hips than Ronnie there is a problem , when Ronnie's clavicles suddenly make Dorian appear as narrow as Shawn Ray there is a problem
the picture of a young Ronnie counts why? we know it's them side-by-side in reality , we also know these facts , clavicle width can not be changed , nor can muscle length , or proportions or balance which all obviously happen when the fan-boy creations ' comparing ' Ronnie to Dorian. It's simple when you put some thought into it but you need those ' comparisons ' to be ' accurate '
and now you're reduced to lying like Hulkster , please show us where anyone claimed ' all the videos are tampered with ' I know you can't do it so I'll spare you the embarrassment of finding something no one claimed , we know for a fact ( there is that pesky word again ) a lot of screencaps Hulkster was using were tampered with , no one is claiming all so when you say that you're simply making things up or are willing to overlook facts like you obviously are in the ' comparisons '
Like Kevin Horton said , when Hulkster posted manipulated images to support your argument your credibility becomes severely compromised , but hey look at what Ronnie fans have done so far , knowingly posted enhanced screencaps , used multiple morphed pictures , made-up several quotes but hey they know for a fact that Ronnie is much better than Dorian ever was yet they are reduced to this ;D sounds like confidence to me ;)
even if you downscale those pics ronnie wil still be more impressive and look the same, he still is going to be better even if dorian is scaled bigger. it's not like he's zoomed to twice his size
-
even if you downscale those pics ronnie wil still be more impressive and look the same, he still is going to be better even if dorian is scaled bigger. it's not like he's zoomed to twice his size
the scale doesn't change the fact Dorian murders Ronnie in density & dryness , and balance & proportion.
the whole thing is accuracy and it's not accurate , clavicle width doesn't change no matter how much weight he puts on , Dorian will never have smaller waist & hips than Ronnie or joints , Ronnie's calves wont be bigger than Dorians no matter what he weighs like Hulkster's enhanced screencaps these are not an accurate representation of reality
-
Sorry xerxes, but I have to continue ;D
By abs I also meant intercostals. Triceps? Do you actually think Flex's slightly better triceps meant much? Ronnie had much better biceps than Dorian, I guess that means a lot too in a contest outcome..
Proportions? Please explain how.......Flex had the exact same problems Ronnie did in proportions: calves/upper legs and forearms/upper arms. Their physiques were pretty much alike in terms of proportions in 98.
Symmetry and overal harmony? Ronnie had the same exact physique characteristics as Flex in 98: small waist, tiny joints, great muscle bellies, etc. how does Flex have better symmetry? because of his abs?
Posing I give it to Flex.
Add this to how Ronnie was killing Flex in size and conditioning and its not all that close.
We can agree to disagree.
By abs I also meant intercostals. Triceps? Do you actually think Flex's slightly better triceps meant much? Ronnie had much better biceps than Dorian, I guess that means a lot too in a contest outcome..
Proportions? Please explain how.......Flex had the exact same problems Ronnie did in proportions: calves/upper legs and forearms/upper arms. Their physiques were pretty much alike in terms of proportions in 98.
Not alone parts alone do NOTHING it's poses. Flex had the exact same problems as Ronnie did in proportion? not true Ronnie has a short torso & longer legs , Flex doesn't his balance between upper & lower is more 50/50 and I think Flex's calves matched his quads better than Ronnie
Symmetry and overal harmony? Ronnie had the same exact physique characteristics as Flex in 98: small waist, tiny joints, great muscle bellies, etc. how does Flex have better symmetry? because of his abs?
Posing I give it to Flex.
Add this to how Ronnie was killing Flex in size and conditioning and its not all that close.
We can agree to disagree.
Again no he didn't , Flex had better symmetry because he had better balance between upper-and-lower , his symmetry is better because he has an even smaller waist than Ronnie did and his muscle roundness and super-tiny points
Having said that , its still a surprise Wheeler lost the show : his SUPERIOR STRUCTURE and posing , especially on the rear double biceps , rear latspread and side chest appeared to have pushed him over the top.the judges however , were quite stringent with the less-than-perfect Wheeler which was namely his hams and glutes
this was a quote from a show Ronnie beat Flex in not sure which one but needless to say they touch on the subject of who has the superior structure and posing , and why Flex usually lost to Ronnie ' hams and glutes ' Flex had advantages over Ronnie for sure , Ronnie deserved to win but it doesn't change the fact it was close
-
I always skim through these Dorian vs Ronnie threads just to see the pictures and videos posted. ;D
-
you guys are guys
-
SERIOUSLY GET A LIFE
At least ND is objective and truly is a 'student' of bodybuilding
"humpster" on the otherhand is an irritating simpleton and objective only concerning how many cc's of Ronnie's warm ball gravy would feel 'optimal' in his rectal cavity.
-
Not alone parts alone do NOTHING it's poses. Flex had the exact same problems as Ronnie did in proportion? not true Ronnie has a short torso & longer legs , Flex doesn't his balance between upper & lower is more 50/50 and I think Flex's calves matched his quads better than Ronnie
Again no he didn't , Flex had better symmetry because he had better balance between upper-and-lower , his symmetry is better because he has an even smaller waist than Ronnie did and his muscle roundness and super-tiny points
Having said that , its still a surprise Wheeler lost the show : his SUPERIOR STRUCTURE and posing , especially on the rear double biceps , rear latspread and side chest appeared to have pushed him over the top.the judges however , were quite stringent with the less-than-perfect Wheeler which was namely his hams and glutes
this was a quote from a show Ronnie beat Flex in not sure which one but needless to say they touch on the subject of who has the superior structure and posing , and why Flex usually lost to Ronnie ' hams and glutes ' Flex had advantages over Ronnie for sure , Ronnie deserved to win but it doesn't change the fact it was close
I don't think Flex's joints and waist were that much smaller, the difference would be negligible. I see that Flex's torso length matched his leg length better, but he still had the same calves/upper legs & forearms/upper arms problem going on like Ronnie. So let's say he did have a slight advantage in balance & proportions, still too small to affect the overall.
-
Muscular Bulk - Dorian
Density - lets push
dryness - lets push
balance - Dorian
proportion - Dorian
' symmetry ' - Ronnie
posing - Dorian
presentation - Dorian
gyno - Ronnie
take a guess who the criteria favors?
muscular bulk - don't forget its all about how big one looks onstage not what the scale says, a lighter Ronnie would look just as big as Dorian in 93. Don't forget Dorian carried a lot of his extra weight in his gut in 95.
conditioning - equal, slight advantage for Dorian in density
balance & proportion - Dorian
symmetry - Ronnie
posing - equal
gyno - Ronnie? so:
torn bicep - Dorian
bloated gut - Dorian
I don't think 1998 would be close at all , maybe 2001 would be maybe 03 , it's all speculation but what we do know if Dorian beat Ronnie 8 times ;)
We also know Dorian IFBB judge said he wouldn't know who wins, meaning it would be very close. ;)
-
8)
-
muscular bulk - don't forget its all about how big one looks onstage not what the scale says, a lighter Ronnie would look just as big as Dorian in 93. Don't forget Dorian carried a lot of his extra weight in his gut in 95.
conditioning - equal, slight advantage for Dorian in density
balance & proportion - Dorian
symmetry - Ronnie
posing - equal
gyno - Ronnie? so:
torn bicep - Dorian
bloated gut - Dorian
We also know Dorian IFBB judge said he wouldn't know who wins, meaning it would be very close. ;)
muscular bulk - don't forget its all about how big one looks onstage not what the scale says, a lighter Ronnie would look just as big as Dorian in 93. Don't forget Dorian carried a lot of his extra weight in his gut in 95.
conditioning - equal, slight advantage for Dorian in density
balance & proportion - Dorian
symmetry - Ronnie
posing - equal
yes I know it's all about how big one looks on-stage ;)
I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab
Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.
So a 280lbs Dillett and a 315lb Lou didn't appear to be as big as a 257lb Dorian a 249lb Ronnie isn't ;)
and A lot of Dorian's extra weight was in his gut? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.
conditioning - is not equal and even entertaining it was Dorian has a huge advantage in density NOT a slight on
posing? equal? are you serious? have you ever watched Ronnie pose? neither are Labrada but Dorian knew how to present his physique to it's greatest advantage . Ronnie didn't , raise the roof anyone? ??? you look at Ronnie's posing from when he first turned pro to the end of his career and it's nearly identical his movements are awkward , his transitions are awful and he could in my opinion look better in a lot of poses if he put more effort into it , here is Shawn touching on that subject in 98
Ronnie Coleman was the most improved bodybuilder , and they should have an award for that but it SHOULDN'T be the overall title. Ronnie Coleman won the Mr Olympia for making the most improvement.
Ronnie does NOT have the complete physique. He has a certain degree of shape and detail but , let's be honest , he has a lot of weaknesses : calves , hamstrings , midsection. He has flaws on his physique that you just can't find on my physique or Flex Wheeler's physique.
Did they even count the posing routine? Ronnie Coleman is never going to be remembered for a posing routine.
gyno - Ronnie? so:
torn bicep - Dorian
bloated gut - Dorian
yeah because Ronnie didn't have a ' bloated gut ' in 1998 ::) shall I post the pics? how about gyno , a bloated gut , no calves and inferior conditioning & posing ?
We also know Dorian IFBB judge said he wouldn't know who wins, meaning it would be very close. ;)
We also know Dorian an IFBB judge said he has better conditioning than Ronnie and better balance & proportion too , we know he said he doesn't know who would win , you interpenetrating it would be ' close ' is just that you drawing your own conclusions you like to cherry pick what he says to fit your POV but ignore what else he says don't be a hypocrite far to many of them in these ' debates '
-
At least ND is objective and truly is a 'student' of bodybuilding
"humpster" on the otherhand is an irritating simpleton and objective only concerning how many cc's of Ronnie's warm ball gravy would feel 'optimal' in his rectal cavity.
Thank you ! ;D
-
8)
crazy shot :o
-
8)
Best pic i have seen of Yates.
-
yes I know it's all about how big one looks on-stage ;)
I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab
Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.
So a 280lbs Dillett and a 315lb Lou didn't appear to be as big as a 257lb Dorian a 249lb Ronnie isn't ;)
and A lot of Dorian's extra weight was in his gut? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.
conditioning - is not equal and even entertaining it was Dorian has a huge advantage in density NOT a slight on
posing? equal? are you serious? have you ever watched Ronnie pose? neither are Labrada but Dorian knew how to present his physique to it's greatest advantage . Ronnie didn't , raise the roof anyone? ??? you look at Ronnie's posing from when he first turned pro to the end of his career and it's nearly identical his movements are awkward , his transitions are awful and he could in my opinion look better in a lot of poses if he put more effort into it , here is Shawn touching on that subject in 98
Ronnie Coleman was the most improved bodybuilder , and they should have an award for that but it SHOULDN'T be the overall title. Ronnie Coleman won the Mr Olympia for making the most improvement.
Ronnie does NOT have the complete physique. He has a certain degree of shape and detail but , let's be honest , he has a lot of weaknesses : calves , hamstrings , midsection. He has flaws on his physique that you just can't find on my physique or Flex Wheeler's physique.
Did they even count the posing routine? Ronnie Coleman is never going to be remembered for a posing routine.
yeah because Ronnie didn't have a ' bloated gut ' in 1998 ::) shall I post the pics? how about gyno , a bloated gut , no calves and inferior conditioning & posing ?
We also know Dorian an IFBB judge said he has better conditioning than Ronnie and better balance & proportion too , we know he said he doesn't know who would win , you interpenetrating it would be ' close ' is just that you drawing your own conclusions you like to cherry pick what he says to fit your POV but ignore what else he says don't be a hypocrite far to many of them in these ' debates '
I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab
Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.
So a 280lbs Dillett and a 315lb Lou didn't appear to be as big as a 257lb Dorian a 249lb Ronnie isn't ;)
Do you know this exact same quote can be used to show how a lighter Ronnie would look equally as big or really close as Dorian? His superior muscle bellies, shape and separation would help a lot. Plus your pic from the 96 grand prix shows this too.
and A lot of Dorian's extra weight was in his gut? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.
Was his gut a lot bigger in 95?
Were his arms any bigger? How about his legs or chest? Shoulders?
Case closed.
conditioning - is not equal and even entertaining it was Dorian has a huge advantage in density NOT a slight on
Why exactly do you think Dorian was drier than a 98 Ronnie?
posing? equal? are you serious? have you ever watched Ronnie pose? neither are Labrada but Dorian knew how to present his physique to it's greatest advantage . Ronnie didn't , raise the roof anyone? ??? you look at Ronnie's posing from when he first turned pro to the end of his career and it's nearly identical his movements are awkward , his transitions are awful and he could in my opinion look better in a lot of poses if he put more effort into it , here is Shawn touching on that subject in 98
Ronnie Coleman was the most improved bodybuilder , and they should have an award for that but it SHOULDN'T be the overall title. Ronnie Coleman won the Mr Olympia for making the most improvement.
Ronnie does NOT have the complete physique. He has a certain degree of shape and detail but , let's be honest , he has a lot of weaknesses : calves , hamstrings , midsection. He has flaws on his physique that you just can't find on my physique or Flex Wheeler's physique.
Did they even count the posing routine? Ronnie Coleman is never going to be remembered for a posing routine.
Ok, lets say Dorian was a slightly better poser. I'll give it to you that Ronnie looked a bit akward on the ab&thigh and side-tri.
Dorian was never spoken of for a great posing routine either.
yeah because Ronnie didn't have a ' bloated gut ' in 1998 ::) shall I post the pics? how about gyno , a bloated gut , no calves and inferior conditioning & posing ?
Didn't see one pic of Ronnie in 98 with a bloated gut. Ok no calves vs torn bicep (using Dorian in 95 of course)
We also know Dorian an IFBB judge said he has better conditioning than Ronnie and better balance & proportion too , we know he said he doesn't know who would win , you interpenetrating it would be ' close ' is just that you drawing your own conclusions you like to cherry pick what he says to fit your POV but ignore what else he says don't be a hypocrite far to many of them in these ' debates '
What do you think Dorian meant when he said "I don't know"? What do you think not knowing who wins means? A close contest doesn't it? Its pretty logical.
OK Dorian said he had better conditioning and balance & proportions than Ronnie, but overall said he doesn't know who would win. ;)
-
Do you know this exact same quote can be used to show how a lighter Ronnie would look equally as big or really close as Dorian? His superior muscle bellies, shape and separation would help a lot. Plus your pic from the 96 grand prix shows this too.
Was his gut a lot bigger in 95?
Were his arms any bigger? How about his legs or chest? Shoulders?
Case closed.
Why exactly do you think Dorian was drier than a 98 Ronnie?
Ok, lets say Dorian was a slightly better poser. I'll give it to you that Ronnie looked a bit akward on the ab&thigh and side-tri.
Dorian was never spoken of for a great posing routine either.
Didn't see one pic of Ronnie in 98 with a bloated gut. Ok no calves vs torn bicep (using Dorian in 95 of course)
What do you think Dorian meant when he said "I don't know"? What do you think not knowing who wins means? A close contest doesn't it? Its pretty logical.
OK Dorian said he had better conditioning and balance & proportions than Ronnie, but overall said he doesn't know who would win. ;)
Do you know this exact same quote can be used to show how a lighter Ronnie would look equally as big or really close as Dorian? His superior muscle bellies, shape and separation would help a lot. Plus your pic from the 96 grand prix shows this too
says who? you? you need this to apply to Ronnie maybe he would , maybe he wouldn't all speculation lets say it's true still loses almost everywhere else so no advantage ;) superior muscle bellies? shape and separation? you're talking a lot of liberties with these statements , he has advantages in some areas Dorian in others , does Ronnie have superior calves muscle bellies? does he have better shaped calves? triceps? abdominals? I mean you just can't make blanket statements separation? same in certain areas sure in others no , like I've always said Ronnie meets part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian but he doesn't meet it all better
and the 96GP I see Dorian bigger and bigger all over and 2D pictures can't really give this impression.
Was his gut a lot bigger in 95?
Were his arms any bigger? How about his legs or chest? Shoulders?
Case closed.
case closed? hahahahahaha you're getting delusional now , no the case isn't closed you under NO circumstances can know if his gut was bigger , or his arms were bigger or his legs or chest or shoulders were bigger unless you seen both these contests and Peter McGough who was at both these contests
Peter McGough September , 2003
1) After Dorian's career ended in '97, we discussed what was his best ever ( contest ) shape. We both agreed on 1995. He was driven that year by his underpar showing in '94. In '95 he was full, cut and granite hard: more cut and harder than '93 when he just amazed everyone in Atlanta. He got one comparison call in '93 with Flex Wheeler and Shawn Ray. The judges didn't call it, they had seen enough. The call was made by head judge Wayne DeMilia simply for the audience's benefit
just because he was 260lbs doesn't mean he was exactly the same size as he was in 1993 , he was FULL CUT AND GRANITE HARD , MORE CUT AND HARDER than 1993 !! more so than 1993 and that's saying volumes to claim just because he didn't appear any bigger to you and most of that was in his gut is just ignorance at it's best and foolishness , the case my friend is far from closed
Why exactly do you think Dorian was drier than a 98 Ronnie?
gee maybe because Ronnie even at his best always seemed to be carrying a slight film of water , I don't know ::) see this is one area that's extremely difficult to ascertain through pictures & videos this is why I usually rely on others peoples ( who were actually there ) opinions on the subject as well , and why I always like to say hey maybe he was on par with conditioning , but you have to grasp this , maybe at his absolute best he did match Yates for dryness but he was at his absolute lightest , Dorian would be fuller , denser and just as dry which is more of an advantage , 247lbs in 2001 and 260lbs full , dense and hard is a whole other ball of wax
being dry doesn't mean you're full and dense and dry , more to conditioning than just being dry
Ok, lets say Dorian was a slightly better poser. I'll give it to you that Ronnie looked a bit akward on the ab&thigh and side-tri.
Dorian was never spoken of for a great posing routine either.
you have this constant need to put Dorian slightly above , you're trying to make it close. his ab-thigh sucked , his side-triceps sucked , I think his front latspread could have been better if he learned how to hit it correctly same with his side-chest , Ronnie mastered the power-shots , front-double biceps , most muscular , back-double-biceps , but nothing the others , and his posing routines started with that stupid raise the roof which begged everyone to stare at his gut , he often posed to slow music R&B which I think was a mistake for his type of physique , he often did kneeling & twisting shots which I don't think worked for his physique type , his transitions were awkward
I stated already neither Dorian or Ronnie were Lee Labrada when it came to posing but I do feel , Dorian mastered the mandatories better than Ronnie and posed more effectively and hide his weaknesses better than Ronnie , I think it's clear who the better poser is , and Dorian had stage presence he looked like he owned that stage and he was doing everyone a favor by being up there with him , Ronnie when pushed came to shove broke down and cried when he won , he always looked like he was sweating bullets when the last two were on-stage , Dorian knew he was going to win , Ronnie didn't this is stage presence
Didn't see one pic of Ronnie in 98 with a bloated gut. Ok no calves vs torn bicep (using Dorian in 95 of course)
I posted them before , no calves and gyno and inferior conditioning and less muscular bulk and balance & proportion and posing , 1998 is NOT close to 1995 no way no how
What do you think Dorian meant when he said "I don't know"? What do you think not knowing who wins means? A close contest doesn't it? Its pretty logical.
no not really he can't speak for 12 other people , he said he gets asked this question many times and it's a hard question for him to answer , he could not want to commit to an answer out of coming across arrogant , he could not have an answer do to he never put much thought into it , I mean we don't know why he said he don't know , it sounded like a question that was asked out of the blue and he didn't want to commit to an answer , maybe he did mean it would be close maybe he didn't but what he do know is he said he doesn't know and that sounds like he honestly doesn't know.
OK Dorian said he had better conditioning and balance & proportions than Ronnie, but overall said he doesn't know who would win. ;)
he didn't say ' overall ' that's you projecting , again maybe he just doesn't want to say ' yeah I'd beat him ' maybe he doesn't honestly know and don't want to commit to an answer , you're trying desperately to make-up for all the times Ronnie said Dorian would beat him outright and it's not gonna happen ;)
-
How interesting ND, would you be so kind to further expand on the issue?
::) ::) ::)
Sure no problem ;)
Flex Magazine Jan 1999
Ernie Taylor
" When I saw Ronnie Coleman backstage before the prejudging , it was looking at ' three-D ' again. He looked fantastic. But I think if Dorian ( Yates ) were competing he would have won the show . "
-
says who? you? you need this to apply to Ronnie maybe he would , maybe he wouldn't all speculation lets say it's true still loses almost everywhere else so no advantage ;) superior muscle bellies? shape and separation? you're talking a lot of liberties with these statements , he has advantages in some areas Dorian in others , does Ronnie have superior calves muscle bellies? does he have better shaped calves? triceps? abdominals? I mean you just can't make blanket statements separation? same in certain areas sure in others no , like I've always said Ronnie meets part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian but he doesn't meet it all better
and the 96GP I see Dorian bigger and bigger all over and 2D pictures can't really give this impression.
case closed? hahahahahaha you're getting delusional now , no the case isn't closed you under NO circumstances can know if his gut was bigger , or his arms were bigger or his legs or chest or shoulders were bigger unless you seen both these contests and Peter McGough who was at both these contests
Peter McGough September , 2003
1) After Dorian's career ended in '97, we discussed what was his best ever ( contest ) shape. We both agreed on 1995. He was driven that year by his underpar showing in '94. In '95 he was full, cut and granite hard: more cut and harder than '93 when he just amazed everyone in Atlanta. He got one comparison call in '93 with Flex Wheeler and Shawn Ray. The judges didn't call it, they had seen enough. The call was made by head judge Wayne DeMilia simply for the audience's benefit
just because he was 260lbs doesn't mean he was exactly the same size as he was in 1993 , he was FULL CUT AND GRANITE HARD , MORE CUT AND HARDER than 1993 !! more so than 1993 and that's saying volumes to claim just because he didn't appear any bigger to you and most of that was in his gut is just ignorance at it's best and foolishness , the case my friend is far from closed
gee maybe because Ronnie even at his best always seemed to be carrying a slight film of water , I don't know ::) see this is one area that's extremely difficult to ascertain through pictures & videos this is why I usually rely on others peoples ( who were actually there ) opinions on the subject as well , and why I always like to say hey maybe he was on par with conditioning , but you have to grasp this , maybe at his absolute best he did match Yates for dryness but he was at his absolute lightest , Dorian would be fuller , denser and just as dry which is more of an advantage , 247lbs in 2001 and 260lbs full , dense and hard is a whole other ball of wax
being dry doesn't mean you're full and dense and dry , more to conditioning than just being dry
you have this constant need to put Dorian slightly above , you're trying to make it close. his ab-thigh sucked , his side-triceps sucked , I think his front latspread could have been better if he learned how to hit it correctly same with his side-chest , Ronnie mastered the power-shots , front-double biceps , most muscular , back-double-biceps , but nothing the others , and his posing routines started with that stupid raise the roof which begged everyone to stare at his gut , he often posed to slow music R&B which I think was a mistake for his type of physique , he often did kneeling & twisting shots which I don't think worked for his physique type , his transitions were awkward
I stated already neither Dorian or Ronnie were Lee Labrada when it came to posing but I do feel , Dorian mastered the mandatories better than Ronnie and posed more effectively and hide his weaknesses better than Ronnie , I think it's clear who the better poser is , and Dorian had stage presence he looked like he owned that stage and he was doing everyone a favor by being up there with him , Ronnie when pushed came to shove broke down and cried when he won , he always looked like he was sweating bullets when the last two were on-stage , Dorian knew he was going to win , Ronnie didn't this is stage presence
I posted them before , no calves and gyno and inferior conditioning and less muscular bulk and balance & proportion and posing , 1998 is NOT close to 1995 no way no how
no not really he can't speak for 12 other people , he said he gets asked this question many times and it's a hard question for him to answer , he could not want to commit to an answer out of coming across arrogant , he could not have an answer do to he never put much thought into it , I mean we don't know why he said he don't know , it sounded like a question that was asked out of the blue and he didn't want to commit to an answer , maybe he did mean it would be close maybe he didn't but what he do know is he said he doesn't know and that sounds like he honestly doesn't know.
he didn't say ' overall ' that's you projecting , again maybe he just doesn't want to say ' yeah I'd beat him ' maybe he doesn't honestly know and don't want to commit to an answer , you're trying desperately to make-up for all the times Ronnie said Dorian would beat him outright and it's not gonna happen ;)
says who? you? you need this to apply to Ronnie maybe he would , maybe he wouldn't all speculation lets say it's true still loses almost everywhere else so no advantage ;) superior muscle bellies? shape and separation? you're talking a lot of liberties with these statements , he has advantages in some areas Dorian in others , does Ronnie have superior calves muscle bellies? does he have better shaped calves? triceps? abdominals? I mean you just can't make blanket statements separation? same in certain areas sure in others no , like I've always said Ronnie meets part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian but he doesn't meet it all better
and the 96GP I see Dorian bigger and bigger all over and 2D pictures can't really give this impression.
I actually was mentioning those advantages Ronnie would have in shape, muscle bellies and separation that would help in the case of him looking equally as big as Dorian. Of course Dorian has some muscle groups with better shape or better bellies.
So here you're agreeing its a possibility Ronnie would look just as big despite being lighter.
case closed? hahahahahaha you're getting delusional now , no the case isn't closed you under NO circumstances can know if his gut was bigger , or his arms were bigger or his legs or chest or shoulders were bigger unless you seen both these contests and Peter McGough who was at both these contests
Peter McGough September , 2003
1) After Dorian's career ended in '97, we discussed what was his best ever ( contest ) shape. We both agreed on 1995. He was driven that year by his underpar showing in '94. In '95 he was full, cut and granite hard: more cut and harder than '93 when he just amazed everyone in Atlanta. He got one comparison call in '93 with Flex Wheeler and Shawn Ray. The judges didn't call it, they had seen enough. The call was made by head judge Wayne DeMilia simply for the audience's benefit
just because he was 260lbs doesn't mean he was exactly the same size as he was in 1993 , he was FULL CUT AND GRANITE HARD , MORE CUT AND HARDER than 1993 !! more so than 1993 and that's saying volumes to claim just because he didn't appear any bigger to you and most of that was in his gut is just ignorance at it's best and foolishness , the case my friend is far from closed
I've seen the video of both contests and let me tell you the only two things bigger I saw on Dorian were his back and his waist/gut.
Since I wasn't there I could be wrong, but nowhere in that McGough quote there is something that says Dorian didn't have a bloated gut or especifically bigger than 93.
gee maybe because Ronnie even at his best always seemed to be carrying a slight film of water , I don't know ::) see this is one area that's extremely difficult to ascertain through pictures & videos this is why I usually rely on others peoples ( who were actually there ) opinions on the subject as well , and why I always like to say hey maybe he was on par with conditioning , but you have to grasp this , maybe at his absolute best he did match Yates for dryness but he was at his absolute lightest , Dorian would be fuller , denser and just as dry which is more of an advantage , 247lbs in 2001 and 260lbs full , dense and hard is a whole other ball of wax
being dry doesn't mean you're full and dense and dry , more to conditioning than just being dry
So since it hard to call who had the best conditioning through pics and vids, you have to rely on other poeple. Good, your quote from McGough said that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian, but he didn't say he wasn't equally as dry or hard.
Here you are also admitting Ronnie could be on par with conditioning.
Dorian has the advantage on density, but Ronnie has his advantages too.
you have this constant need to put Dorian slightly above , you're trying to make it close. his ab-thigh sucked , his side-triceps sucked , I think his front latspread could have been better if he learned how to hit it correctly same with his side-chest , Ronnie mastered the power-shots , front-double biceps , most muscular , back-double-biceps , but nothing the others , and his posing routines started with that stupid raise the roof which begged everyone to stare at his gut , he often posed to slow music R&B which I think was a mistake for his type of physique , he often did kneeling & twisting shots which I don't think worked for his physique type , his transitions were awkward
I stated already neither Dorian or Ronnie were Lee Labrada when it came to posing but I do feel , Dorian mastered the mandatories better than Ronnie and posed more effectively and hide his weaknesses better than Ronnie , I think it's clear who the better poser is , and Dorian had stage presence he looked like he owned that stage and he was doing everyone a favor by being up there with him , Ronnie when pushed came to shove broke down and cried when he won , he always looked like he was sweating bullets when the last two were on-stage , Dorian knew he was going to win , Ronnie didn't this is stage presence
Ok lets give Dorian posing, but its not a night & day difference.
I posted them before , no calves and gyno and inferior conditioning and less muscular bulk and balance & proportion and posing , 1998 is NOT close to 1995 no way no how
inferior conditioning? You just said conditioning could be equal....
less muscular bulk? we just established Ronnie could look just as big as him (Dorian's advantage in 'bulk' wouldn't mean much)
balance & proportions? yes
part of symmetry goes to Ronnie
shape goes to Ronnie
overall muscularity goes to Ronnie
no not really he can't speak for 12 other people , he said he gets asked this question many times and it's a hard question for him to answer , he could not want to commit to an answer out of coming across arrogant , he could not have an answer do to he never put much thought into it , I mean we don't know why he said he don't know , it sounded like a question that was asked out of the blue and he didn't want to commit to an answer , maybe he did mean it would be close maybe he didn't but what he do know is he said he doesn't know and that sounds like he honestly doesn't know.
he didn't say ' overall ' that's you projecting , again maybe he just doesn't want to say ' yeah I'd beat him ' maybe he doesn't honestly know and don't want to commit to an answer , you're trying desperately to make-up for all the times Ronnie said Dorian would beat him outright and it's not gonna happen ;)
So you can make assumptions of what he meant, but I can't? gotcha. ;) ::)
He doesn't want to come off as arrogant? How about the times he said 94, 95, etc. weren't even close? Or when he said the 93 b&w photos are the best one taken? He is not someone to care about not coming off as arrogant.
If he honestly doesn't know (being an IFBB judge), then it means it would be a tough contest to judge = close contest.
What's so hard for you to understand this?
-
sorry xerxes but the 'battle' must go on... ;D :P
-
Abs - Dorian
so I guess its 5 - 4
notice I didn't mention glutes! hahaha
Oh well looks like we got to get ND and Hulkster involved again for the final vote.
-
This thread is destined for 25+ pages, I hope you know that Xerxes. I vowed long ago not to post more than a few times in Dorian vs Ronnie threads anymore, but its always amusing to watch.
-
Ok fuck you guys, here's my opinion anyway:
Bi's - Ronnie
Tri's - Dorian wins on cuts but Ronnie's are bigger still
Forearm - Dorian
Shoulders - Ronnie
Back - Draw
Chest - Ronnie
Quads - Ronnie
Calves - Dorian
Hams - Ronnie
So I got 5 - 3 in Ronnie's favor, seperating each bodypart
ND posted something like this earlier but I'm sure his counts more because "you don't know how to judge a show and you don't know what the judges look for". and it's biased because you are a "fanboy" who is "not in touch with reality"
-
I actually was mentioning those advantages Ronnie would have in shape, muscle bellies and separation that would help in the case of him looking equally as big as Dorian. Of course Dorian has some muscle groups with better shape or better bellies.
So here you're agreeing its a possibility Ronnie would look just as big despite being lighter.
I've seen the video of both contests and let me tell you the only two things bigger I saw on Dorian were his back and his waist/gut.
Since I wasn't there I could be wrong, but nowhere in that McGough quote there is something that says Dorian didn't have a bloated gut or especifically bigger than 93.
So since it hard to call who had the best conditioning through pics and vids, you have to rely on other poeple. Good, your quote from McGough said that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian, but he didn't say he wasn't equally as dry or hard.
Here you are also admitting Ronnie could be on par with conditioning.
Dorian has the advantage on density, but Ronnie has his advantages too.
Ok lets give Dorian posing, but its not a night & day difference.
inferior conditioning? You just said conditioning could be equal....
less muscular bulk? we just established Ronnie could look just as big as him (Dorian's advantage in 'bulk' wouldn't mean much)
balance & proportions? yes
part of symmetry goes to Ronnie
shape goes to Ronnie
overall muscularity goes to Ronnie
So you can make assumptions of what he meant, but I can't? gotcha. ;) ::)
He doesn't want to come off as arrogant? How about the times he said 94, 95, etc. weren't even close? Or when he said the 93 b&w photos are the best one taken? He is not someone to care about not coming off as arrogant.
If he honestly doesn't know (being an IFBB judge), then it means it would be a tough contest to judge = close contest.
What's so hard for you to understand this?
I actually was mentioning those advantages Ronnie would have in shape, muscle bellies and separation that would help in the case of him looking equally as big as Dorian. Of course Dorian has some muscle groups with better shape or better bellies.
So here you're agreeing its a possibility Ronnie would look just as big despite being lighter.
actually you made a lot of blanket statements without being specific and I doubt Ronnie would look just as big being 13lbs lighter , and if we're talking about Dorian at his best B&W pre-contest at 269lbs than that discrepancy would be much greater
I've seen the video of both contests and let me tell you the only two things bigger I saw on Dorian were his back and his waist/gut.
Since I wasn't there I could be wrong, but nowhere in that McGough quote there is something that says Dorian didn't have a bloated gut or especifically bigger than 93.
I disagree in some shots from 93 Dorian looks thinner from the same in 95 where he looks fuller , he doesn't say Dorian did have a bloated gut he didn't say a lot of things you seem to try and read to much into what he didn't say. When he said he was even harder in 95 that means he was carrying more dense muscle and less fat so when you type his gut was bloated and most of the weight is there it's contradictory to reality
So since it hard to call who had the best conditioning through pics and vids, you have to rely on other poeple. Good, your quote from McGough said that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian, but he didn't say he wasn't equally as dry or hard.
Here you are also admitting Ronnie could be on par with conditioning.
Dorian has the advantage on density, but Ronnie has his advantages too.
It's hard to tell on pics and video alone because of the quality varies , the technology from when Dorian competed to when Ronnie did changed ( digital anyone? ) it's hard but no impossible , it's easy to to see Dorian 1995 was much better conditioned than Ronnie 2000 but I don't go by pics & videos alone I like to have evidence that all converges to reach the same conclusion
There you go again , he didn't say Ronnie was close , give me a break he didn't say a lot of things when asked if Ronnie 2001 was harder or drier than Dorian he said he NEVER was , that alone tells us he wasn't close it's definitive and you have to understand the pinnacle of great conditioning , plenty of guys are dry but don't carry much muscle , plenty of guys are hard but aren't full , the epitome is being dense , dry and full while carrying the most muscle it's next to impossible to tie these all together
it's much better to be 269lbs , granite hard , bone dry and full than 247lbs and the same ( and that's playing Devil's advocate ) maybe Ronnie was as hard and dry as Dorian in 2001 but he wasn't nearly carrying as much muscle in the process , you keep admitting Dorian has an advantage in density but you don't understand how much that's worth
Density - Muscle hardness, which is also related to muscu-lar definition. A bodybuilder can be well-defined and still have excess fat within each major muscle complex. But when he has muscle density, even this intramuscular fat has been eliminated. A combination of muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized among all competitive bodybuilders.
This sums up Dorian , his conditioning is legendary
Just as Haney set a new standard in bodybuilding with his unprecedented combination of size, shape and conditioning, the man who would inherit his mantle, Dorian Yates--slightly shorter, yet heavier than Haney--introduced a new level of density, coining the term "grainy." Yates' brief, high-intensity workouts fueled his reputation as one of history's hardest trainers.
How can I describe the man? Let me start with the fact that , when he won the Olympia lasy year , Dorian weighed a massive 244 RIPPED pounds. This year he was just as RIPPED and weighed 256 pounds! Off-season he had been no less than a phenomenal hard 295.
Shawn Perine Ironage May 9 2009
Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.
Quote from Greg Zulak, "MuscleMag", early 1997:
"The most amazing characteristic, of Dorian, is not his size per se, but his muscularity: not only is his muscle-per-square-inch ratio the greatest ever, but his muscles seem like they were etched in stone, such is their hardness."
Quote from Steve Blechman, 1995:
"Even though he doesn't represent my bodybuilding ideal, I think Dorian's overall development is mind-blogging. And when you consider that his frame carries his size so comfortably, and that he presents his mass with such incredible conditioning...I don't think that Dorian can be defeated by current professional judging standards. He'll be Mr.Olympia for as long as he wants to."
Quote from Julian Schmidt, "FLEX" magazine, on the November issue, 1998:
"Now that Dorian Yates, the thickest, densest and most annealed bodybuider in history has retired, Ronnie has taken the opportunity to become the new standard-bearer. Something unlikely to have happened, if Dorian still competed."
Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:
"Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."
At 2 p.m. on 11 September 1993 he walked out onstage at the Civic Auditorium in Atlanta, Georgia. He weighed 257 lb. His skin looked as if it had been painted directly on to his muscle. He was stone hard and grainy. Every detail of every body part punched out into the first ten rows. No man had ever looked quite like Dorian Yates looked that day: he looked big. He looked bad He looked sick. There was no Mr. Olympia contest. The judges saw no need to call him out for comparisons during the muscularity round.
' I knew then, ' he would say, ten years later, ' that I was either first or last. And I wasn't fucking last. '
Eventually Wayne Demilia asked him to step forward between Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler, just the audience could marvel at him some more. Samir Bannout looked at the three of them and said ' Dorian is first, second and third. '
Dorian Yates :
[ Q ] What were some of your better physical qualities as a bodybuilder, do you think?
Obviously I carried a lot of muscle mass and my trademark was to come into a show in super hard condition. I think my muscles had a certain quality and density from all the years of heavy training that a lot of guys didn't have.
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him.
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Has the quality of physique seen on the pro stage these days changed much compared to when you were competing as a professional?
Dorian Yates : I don't think the physiques have changed radically. I think a lot of people are trying to go the size route. My sole goal when getting ready for a contest was not building a lot of size, although when I was coming up pure muscle size was still very important. I was always really concerned about coming in very sharp conditioning wise.
I think that is lacking a little bit now, and it has occurred over the past few years. You go to a pro show now and you see a couple of guys who are in really good shape and the rest of the lineup is so-so, or not so good. Back when I was competing in the Olympia I think you saw a lot of guys who were in really good shape.
There was a greater emphasis on conditioning, but now you see guys going for size at the expense of conditioning. It seems strange me saying that, as I was known for my muscle size, but it was not my priority in getting ready for a contest. Obviously I carried a lot of muscle but my main thing was to come in super-ripped
First of all, Dorian would bring to the stage a package so massive and freakily conditioned that throughout his career as Mr. Olympia no one would come close to defeating him on size and hardness. His level of development set a new standard in bodybuilding excellence, one that is being favorably looked upon, and replicated by many in the sport, today.
"These words should not be taken lightly, because no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows."
Flex Magazine October 2004 - Peter McGough’s commentary on the "voodoo" that has now reached ridiculous complexity when it comes to trying to "dry out" bodybuilders so they’re more ripped than any anatomy chart illustration on contest day. He quotes former Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates, who notes that despite the chemistry experiments with insulin and diuretics, "I don’t see the guys getting any harder."
Lee Priest
HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?
I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
Kevin Horoton GetBig Dec 30th
The photo is technically terrible, fortunately the physique is awesome.
I'd agree with Kris about Dorian showing up on stage how he looked a few weeks out. There are some shots of him at around 280 - 285 shredded. That conditioning has not been surpassed.
FROM MARKUS RUHL
October 2000, FLEX page 166
"DORIAN YATES HAD THE BEST BACK IN THE HISTORY OF BODYBUILDING. HIS LAT SPREAD WAS UNBELIEVABLE. HIS SIZE, MASS, AND CONDITIONING WERE PERFECT,"
Like I said Dorian's conditioning is legendary and it's pretty clear who beats whom in this department
Ok lets give Dorian posing, but its not a night & day difference.
if hypothetically it were close these are the things that separate a winner from a loser.
inferior conditioning? You just said conditioning could be equal....
less muscular bulk? we just established Ronnie could look just as big as him (Dorian's advantage in 'bulk' wouldn't mean much)
balance & proportions? yes
part of symmetry goes to Ronnie
shape goes to Ronnie
overall muscularity goes to Ronnie
inferior conditioning , see above.
no we didn't establish Ronnie could look at big as him at his best in fact at their respective bests Ronnie 2001 and Dorian at 269lbs it would be very apparent who had this advantage
symmetry is part of balance & proportion and if you're using it in the context of smaller waist & hips and joints , than Ronnie with all of the aspect not part of it , then we must factor in the rest
shape? certain muscles yes , certain muscles NO overall NO
overall muscularity goes to Ronnie? LMFAO is the end result of conditioning and guess who wins this? Ronnie has more detail in certain parts , Dorian in others
now remember how contests are judged ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS so we add up in every single pose , from every single angle , who is more complete , who is carrying more muscular bulk , who is drier , harder , better balanced , who has better symmetry , who poses better , who has a better stage presence ALL of this is assessed at ONCE , now Ronnie may meet part(s) of this better than Dorian but as a whole NOPE Dorian just has to many advantages
So you can make assumptions of what he meant, but I can't? gotcha. ;) ::)
He doesn't want to come off as arrogant? How about the times he said 94, 95, etc. weren't even close? Or when he said the 93 b&w photos are the best one taken? He is not someone to care about not coming off as arrogant.
If he honestly doesn't know (being an IFBB judge), then it means it would be a tough contest to judge = close contest.
What's so hard for you to understand this?
I'm only speculating on what he may have thought in response to your query, you're the one who started that trend ;) please show me where he 94 and 95 weren't close? ( which is true BTW ) where are you getting this info?
Well you have your interpretation of what it means , you want it to be close and maybe it would be but either way Dorian would beat him ;) like I said 1998 vs Dorian 1993 or 1995 would not be close at all
Ronnie 2001 vs Dorian 1993/1995 maybe very close Dorian just has to many pluses , Dorian at 269lbs vs Ronnie 2001 247lbs ;D Ronnie would be left for dead
-
ND posted something like this earlier but I'm sure his counts more because "you don't know how to judge a show and you don't know what the judges look for". and it's biased because you are a "fanboy" who is "not in touch with reality"
It's painfully obvious you and most people on here are hopelessly clueless and don't have the slightest idea on how contests are judged , and the prime example is trying to rack up parts NOT how it works it's poses not parts
and in the poses the judges look for who is carrying more muscular bulk AND who is harder AND who is drier AND who has better balance AND who has better proportion AND who is hitting the pose more effectively AND who has the stage presence AND who is more complete and this is done in every single pose in every single angle
how can you type who is better of the two when you don't even have a clue on how things go? you can't , you based everything on what you like and what you prefer not how contests are judged , you post fanboy comparisons where Ronnie has better calves than Dorian and Dorian's wast & hips are much smaller than Ronnie this proves your not in reality , this proves you're biased and ignorant
you don't ever elaborate on your opinion you just post one sentence and posts some slanted pics and then run because you know you're in over your head and can't form an unbiased informed opinion this is why you're like the other fanboys , at the least JP_RC is making an effort to make his case you guys just wanna troll your ' I know Ronnie is better and Dorian shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence ' ' opinion but hey this is GetBig par for the course , so have at it ;D over 33K posts I enjoy correcting people ;)
-
It's painfully obvious you and most people on here are hopelessly clueless and don't have the slightest idea on how contests are judged , and the prime example is trying to rack up parts NOT how it works it's poses not parts
and in the poses the judges look for who is carrying more muscular bulk AND who is harder AND who is drier AND who has better balance AND who has better proportion AND who is hitting the pose more effectively AND who has the stage presence AND who is more complete and this is done in every single pose in every single angle
how can you type who is better of the two when you don't even have a clue on how things go? you can't , you based everything on what you like and what you prefer not how contests are judged , you post fanboy comparisons where Ronnie has better calves than Dorian and Dorian's wast & hips are much smaller than Ronnie this proves your not in reality , this proves you're biased and ignorant
you don't ever elaborate on your opinion you just post one sentence and posts some slanted pics and then run because you know you're in over your head and can't form an unbiased informed opinion this is why you're like the other fanboys , at the least JP_RC is making an effort to make his case you guys just wanna troll your ' I know Ronnie is better and Dorian shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence ' ' opinion but hey this is GetBig par for the course , so have at it ;D over 33K posts I enjoy correcting people ;)
-
I've posted countless pictures (the only real way on here). I would think they count more than Editors oppinions. But according to ND all the pics don't count. Maybe if dorian was better, the pics would count. Rescale the pics, ronnie will still be better.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-fyssgE5sr8/TI4kynTjHzI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/xkxBqRQFnW8/s1600/olympia+dorian+and+ronnie+comparison+wallpaper.jpg)
what's your excuse for this pic. I bet it's "dorian is better in those pics"
-
I've posted countless pictures (the only real way on here). I would think they count more than Editors oppinions. But according to ND all the pics don't count. Maybe if dorian was better, the pics would count. Rescale the pics, ronnie will still be better.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-fyssgE5sr8/TI4kynTjHzI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/xkxBqRQFnW8/s1600/olympia+dorian+and+ronnie+comparison+wallpaper.jpg)
what's your excuse for this pic. I bet it's "dorian is better in those pics"
I'll give dorian the rear lat spread and abs and thighs.
-
I've posted countless pictures (the only real way on here). I would think they count more than Editors oppinions. But according to ND all the pics don't count. Maybe if dorian was better, the pics would count. Rescale the pics, ronnie will still be better.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-fyssgE5sr8/TI4kynTjHzI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/xkxBqRQFnW8/s1600/olympia+dorian+and+ronnie+comparison+wallpaper.jpg)
what's your excuse for this pic. I bet it's "dorian is better in those pics"
No, the issue is, that when you look at those pics, you see Ronnie as being better, and you cant comprehend that other people look at the pics and see Dorian as being better. Thats your problem. You think your opinion is the only, right opinion. Doesnt surprise me, seeing as how young you are. That you think you know everything.
-
I don't type out 10 page essays for people explaining how I'm right and others are wrong. see NDs post above.
-
No, the issue is, that when you look at those pics, you see Ronnie as being better, and you cant comprehend that other people look at the pics and see Dorian as being better. Thats your problem. You think your opinion is the only, right opinion. Doesnt surprise me, seeing as how young you are. That you think you know everything.
I argue and everything but ND genuinly gets mad. Does he do therapy for this shit?
-
No, the issue is, that when you look at those pics, you see Ronnie as being better, and you cant comprehend that other people look at the pics and see Dorian as being better. Thats your problem. You think your opinion is the only, right opinion. Doesnt surprise me, seeing as how young you are. That you think you know everything.
age doesn't represent maturity either. You won't find me attacking and insulting people over their different oppinions about ronnie vs dorian. you two can't say the same.
-
I've posted countless pictures (the only real way on here). I would think they count more than Editors oppinions. But according to ND all the pics don't count. Maybe if dorian was better, the pics would count. Rescale the pics, ronnie will still be better.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-fyssgE5sr8/TI4kynTjHzI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/xkxBqRQFnW8/s1600/olympia+dorian+and+ronnie+comparison+wallpaper.jpg)
what's your excuse for this pic. I bet it's "dorian is better in those pics"
hahahahahaha yeah why on earth would we listen to anyone who was live and at the contests in question with years professional experience whose job is to evaluate contests , like I said clueless people like you and Hulkster who dismiss experts and rely on photoshopped pictures and inaccurate scaled pictures , especially when the pics are all from Ronnie ( 2003 NOT at his best ) and all different years of Dorian one of from his worse years ( 1994 )
I can always rely on fanboys for a good laugh ;D ;)
-
I argue and everything but ND genuinly gets mad. Does he do therapy for this shit?
Mad? you're projecting I don't get mad , I correct people that's what I do ;) you can't argue your ' proof ' is heavily slanted pictures that favor Ronnie and like Hulkster you can even get the basics right , 2003 is NOT his best
-
age doesn't represent maturity either. You won't find me attacking and insulting people over their different oppinions about ronnie vs dorian. you two can't say the same.
It's not differing opinion that warrants the insults its the lying , denial , and ignorance that does.
it's the enhanced sceencaps , the slanted comparisons and the made-up quotes .
You don't get to involved in these debates but when you try and pass off that nonsense as proof you're opening yourself up to ridicule
and if you're looking for ' maturity ' GetBig isn't the place for you sport.
-
It's not differing opinion that warrants the insults its the lying , denial , and ignorance that does.
it's the enhanced sceencaps , the slanted comparisons and the made-up quotes .
You don't get to involved in these debates but when you try and pass off that nonsense as proof you're opening yourself up to ridicule
and if you're looking for ' maturity ' GetBig isn't the place for you sport.
why in god's name would I come to getbig for maturity, it has nothing to do with this thread it's just something shockwave brought up out of lack of argument after I posted better scaled photos. BTW what do you think of them? let's hear the excuse...Sport
-
Mad? you're projecting I don't get mad , I correct people that's what I do ;) you can't argue your ' proof ' is heavily slanted pictures that favor Ronnie and like Hulkster you can even get the basics right , 2003 is NOT his best
IMO 93 is not dorians best but that's just what the pictures have.
-
why in god's name would I come to getbig for maturity, it has nothing to do with this thread it's just something shockwave brought up out of lack of argument after I posted better scaled photos. BTW what do you think of them? let's hear the excuse...Sport
Better scaled ::) maybe reading comprehension isn't your strong point I already told you what I think of them. ;)
-
Better scaled ::) maybe reading comprehension isn't your strong point I already told you what I think of them. ;)
why don't you find some pics of them both in their prime that are to scale.
there aren't any. But again if dorian were better in those photos you wouldn't need excuses. you would be the one posting them
-
IMO 93 is not dorians best but that's just what the pictures have.
Much to learn young padawan , the pictures aren't even all 1993 , we have 1994 Mr Olympia , 1995 Mr Olympia , 1996 Mr Olympia obviously not all from his best like I said this is what happens when you have a Ronnie fanboy doing the creating
oh and a few more notes , 2003/2004 isn't Ronnie's best either overall these ' comparisons ' F-
-
In that photo spread, I would basically give each pose to Dorian. Yates looks a lot more sculpted than does Ronnie, who in my opinion, looks like a blob. Compared to Dorian, Ronnie's rear lat-spread and rear-relaxed are not bad and his side-chest is solid but Dorian, to my eyes, simply out balances him.
It's amazing how far bodybuilding has changed when we have a situation where Dorian Yates is more proportionate and balanced than Ronnie Coleman...
-
why don't you find some pics of them both in their prime that are to scale.
there aren't any. But again if dorian were better in those photos you wouldn't need excuses. you would be the one posting them
I tried to scale pics before and failed it's just to hard , to hard to find the same angle , same lighting , same foot position , same distance , that's why I shy away from it
and pointing out the obviously flaws ( differing years i.e. NOT his best , different scales etc ) is NOT an excuse it's a fact and you see what you want in those pics ( no surprise ) I see Dorian with clearly superior density & dryness , clearly better balance & proportion , and being more complete , I think my OPINION is more thought out , objective and better researched than yours
-
if they are made from ronnie fanboys then why did they use dorians precontest photos against on 04 ronnie, seems kinda more in dorians favor.
-
I tried to scale pics before and failed it's just to hard , to hard to find the same angle , same lighting , same foot position , same distance , that's why I shy away from it
and pointing out the obviously flaws ( differing years i.e. NOT his best , different scales etc ) is NOT an excuse it's a fact and you see what you want in those pics ( no surprise ) I see Dorian with clearly superior density & dryness , clearly better balance & proportion , and being more complete , I think my OPINION is more thought out , objective and better researched than yours
and shockwave says I think I know everything
-
if they are made from ronnie fanboys then why did they use dorians precontest photos against on 04 ronnie, seems kinda more in dorians favor.
Obviously they're not according to seeing he wins maybe two poses
and shockwave says I think I know everything
the difference is I do ;D well that's not true just more than you and Hulkster and just about everyone else on this boards
-
we would all love each other if not for these threads.
-
we would all love each other if not for these threads.
:-*
-
It's hard to tell on pics and video alone because of the quality varies , the technology from when Dorian competed to when Ronnie did changed ( digital anyone? ) it's hard but no impossible , it's easy to to see Dorian 1995 was much better conditioned than Ronnie 2000 but I don't go by pics & videos alone I like to have evidence that all converges to reach the same conclusion
There you go again , he didn't say Ronnie was close , give me a break he didn't say a lot of things when asked if Ronnie 2001 was harder or drier than Dorian he said he NEVER was , that alone tells us he wasn't close it's definitive and you have to understand the pinnacle of great conditioning , plenty of guys are dry but don't carry much muscle , plenty of guys are hard but aren't full , the epitome is being dense , dry and full while carrying the most muscle it's next to impossible to tie these all together
it's much better to be 269lbs , granite hard , bone dry and full than 247lbs and the same ( and that's playing Devil's advocate ) maybe Ronnie was as hard and dry as Dorian in 2001 but he wasn't nearly carrying as much muscle in the process , you keep admitting Dorian has an advantage in density but you don't understand how much that's worth
Density - Muscle hardness, which is also related to muscu-lar definition. A bodybuilder can be well-defined and still have excess fat within each major muscle complex. But when he has muscle density, even this intramuscular fat has been eliminated. A combination of muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized among all competitive bodybuilders.
This sums up Dorian , his conditioning is legendary
Just as Haney set a new standard in bodybuilding with his unprecedented combination of size, shape and conditioning, the man who would inherit his mantle, Dorian Yates--slightly shorter, yet heavier than Haney--introduced a new level of density, coining the term "grainy." Yates' brief, high-intensity workouts fueled his reputation as one of history's hardest trainers.
How can I describe the man? Let me start with the fact that , when he won the Olympia lasy year , Dorian weighed a massive 244 RIPPED pounds. This year he was just as RIPPED and weighed 256 pounds! Off-season he had been no less than a phenomenal hard 295.
Shawn Perine Ironage May 9 2009
Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.
Quote from Greg Zulak, "MuscleMag", early 1997:
"The most amazing characteristic, of Dorian, is not his size per se, but his muscularity: not only is his muscle-per-square-inch ratio the greatest ever, but his muscles seem like they were etched in stone, such is their hardness."
Quote from Steve Blechman, 1995:
"Even though he doesn't represent my bodybuilding ideal, I think Dorian's overall development is mind-blogging. And when you consider that his frame carries his size so comfortably, and that he presents his mass with such incredible conditioning...I don't think that Dorian can be defeated by current professional judging standards. He'll be Mr.Olympia for as long as he wants to."
Quote from Julian Schmidt, "FLEX" magazine, on the November issue, 1998:
"Now that Dorian Yates, the thickest, densest and most annealed bodybuider in history has retired, Ronnie has taken the opportunity to become the new standard-bearer. Something unlikely to have happened, if Dorian still competed."
Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:
"Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."
At 2 p.m. on 11 September 1993 he walked out onstage at the Civic Auditorium in Atlanta, Georgia. He weighed 257 lb. His skin looked as if it had been painted directly on to his muscle. He was stone hard and grainy. Every detail of every body part punched out into the first ten rows. No man had ever looked quite like Dorian Yates looked that day: he looked big. He looked bad He looked sick. There was no Mr. Olympia contest. The judges saw no need to call him out for comparisons during the muscularity round.
' I knew then, ' he would say, ten years later, ' that I was either first or last. And I wasn't fucking last. '
Eventually Wayne Demilia asked him to step forward between Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler, just the audience could marvel at him some more. Samir Bannout looked at the three of them and said ' Dorian is first, second and third. '
Dorian Yates :
[ Q ] What were some of your better physical qualities as a bodybuilder, do you think?
Obviously I carried a lot of muscle mass and my trademark was to come into a show in super hard condition. I think my muscles had a certain quality and density from all the years of heavy training that a lot of guys didn't have.
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him.
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Has the quality of physique seen on the pro stage these days changed much compared to when you were competing as a professional?
Dorian Yates : I don't think the physiques have changed radically. I think a lot of people are trying to go the size route. My sole goal when getting ready for a contest was not building a lot of size, although when I was coming up pure muscle size was still very important. I was always really concerned about coming in very sharp conditioning wise.
I think that is lacking a little bit now, and it has occurred over the past few years. You go to a pro show now and you see a couple of guys who are in really good shape and the rest of the lineup is so-so, or not so good. Back when I was competing in the Olympia I think you saw a lot of guys who were in really good shape.
There was a greater emphasis on conditioning, but now you see guys going for size at the expense of conditioning. It seems strange me saying that, as I was known for my muscle size, but it was not my priority in getting ready for a contest. Obviously I carried a lot of muscle but my main thing was to come in super-ripped
First of all, Dorian would bring to the stage a package so massive and freakily conditioned that throughout his career as Mr. Olympia no one would come close to defeating him on size and hardness. His level of development set a new standard in bodybuilding excellence, one that is being favorably looked upon, and replicated by many in the sport, today.
"These words should not be taken lightly, because no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows."
Flex Magazine October 2004 - Peter McGough’s commentary on the "voodoo" that has now reached ridiculous complexity when it comes to trying to "dry out" bodybuilders so they’re more ripped than any anatomy chart illustration on contest day. He quotes former Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates, who notes that despite the chemistry experiments with insulin and diuretics, "I don’t see the guys getting any harder."
Lee Priest
HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?
I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
Kevin Horoton GetBig Dec 30th
The photo is technically terrible, fortunately the physique is awesome.
I'd agree with Kris about Dorian showing up on stage how he looked a few weeks out. There are some shots of him at around 280 - 285 shredded. That conditioning has not been surpassed.
FROM MARKUS RUHL
October 2000, FLEX page 166
"DORIAN YATES HAD THE BEST BACK IN THE HISTORY OF BODYBUILDING. HIS LAT SPREAD WAS UNBELIEVABLE. HIS SIZE, MASS, AND CONDITIONING WERE PERFECT,"
Like I said Dorian's conditioning is legendary and it's pretty clear who beats whom in this department
Man, a lot of reading here.... ;D
After reading all of this and reviewing some of Dorian's best pics, I can honestly admit Dorian had the best conditioning, but here is the thing:
1. Quotes are good and these here show how no one was better conditioned than Dorian, but I remember reading a quote posted here about Ronnie in 2001, it was posted as a question and it went something like "has anyone ever presented a physique as hard and dry as this?" Meaning Ronnie's conditioning in 2001 was also legendary. Now take that his conditioning in 98 was equally as good (although I think he was drier) then you have a Ronnie in 98 with legendary conditioning aswell.
2. The majority of your quotes were from how Dorian dominated with his conditioning in his competitive years. Its still hard to determine how that conditioning would've helped him vs a greatly conditioned Ronnie. Let's face it, none of Dorian's competitors achieved the conditioning Ronnie achieved in 98/2001.
3. Even though Dorian's conditioning is legendary and unmatched, how close could Ronnie's best conditioning be? Most of your quotes say Dorian was unmatched, but they don't say how close a prime Ronnie would be.
-
actually you made a lot of blanket statements without being specific and I doubt Ronnie would look just as big being 13lbs lighter , and if we're talking about Dorian at his best B&W pre-contest at 269lbs than that discrepancy would be much greater
I disagree in some shots from 93 Dorian looks thinner from the same in 95 where he looks fuller , he doesn't say Dorian did have a bloated gut he didn't say a lot of things you seem to try and read to much into what he didn't say. When he said he was even harder in 95 that means he was carrying more dense muscle and less fat so when you type his gut was bloated and most of the weight is there it's contradictory to reality
if hypothetically it were close these are the things that separate a winner from a loser.
inferior conditioning , see above.
no we didn't establish Ronnie could look at big as him at his best in fact at their respective bests Ronnie 2001 and Dorian at 269lbs it would be very apparent who had this advantage
symmetry is part of balance & proportion and if you're using it in the context of smaller waist & hips and joints , than Ronnie with all of the aspect not part of it , then we must factor in the rest
shape? certain muscles yes , certain muscles NO overall NO
overall muscularity goes to Ronnie? LMFAO is the end result of conditioning and guess who wins this? Ronnie has more detail in certain parts , Dorian in others
now remember how contests are judged ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS so we add up in every single pose , from every single angle , who is more complete , who is carrying more muscular bulk , who is drier , harder , better balanced , who has better symmetry , who poses better , who has a better stage presence ALL of this is assessed at ONCE , now Ronnie may meet part(s) of this better than Dorian but as a whole NOPE Dorian just has to many advantages
I'm only speculating on what he may have thought in response to your query, you're the one who started that trend ;) please show me where he 94 and 95 weren't close? ( which is true BTW ) where are you getting this info?
Well you have your interpretation of what it means , you want it to be close and maybe it would be but either way Dorian would beat him ;) like I said 1998 vs Dorian 1993 or 1995 would not be close at all
Ronnie 2001 vs Dorian 1993/1995 maybe very close Dorian just has to many pluses , Dorian at 269lbs vs Ronnie 2001 247lbs ;D Ronnie would be left for dead
actually you made a lot of blanket statements without being specific and I doubt Ronnie would look just as big being 13lbs lighter , and if we're talking about Dorian at his best B&W pre-contest at 269lbs than that discrepancy would be much greater
I disagree in some shots from 93 Dorian looks thinner from the same in 95 where he looks fuller , he doesn't say Dorian did have a bloated gut he didn't say a lot of things you seem to try and read to much into what he didn't say. When he said he was even harder in 95 that means he was carrying more dense muscle and less fat so when you type his gut was bloated and most of the weight is there it's contradictory to reality
Ok, he was a little bigger in 95, but most of it was in his torso anyway. Can you honestly say his arms, delts or legs were bigger? I think not.
Anothet thing, how balanced and proportionate was Dorian in 95 with his torso overpowering his arms?
if hypothetically it were close these are the things that separate a winner from a loser.
inferior conditioning , see above.
no we didn't establish Ronnie could look at big as him at his best in fact at their respective bests Ronnie 2001 and Dorian at 269lbs it would be very apparent who had this advantage
symmetry is part of balance & proportion and if you're using it in the context of smaller waist & hips and joints , than Ronnie with all of the aspect not part of it , then we must factor in the rest
shape? certain muscles yes , certain muscles NO overall NO
overall muscularity goes to Ronnie? LMFAO is the end result of conditioning and guess who wins this? Ronnie has more detail in certain parts , Dorian in others
now remember how contests are judged ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS so we add up in every single pose , from every single angle , who is more complete , who is carrying more muscular bulk , who is drier , harder , better balanced , who has better symmetry , who poses better , who has a better stage presence ALL of this is assessed at ONCE , now Ronnie may meet part(s) of this better than Dorian but as a whole NOPE Dorian just has to many advantages
I'm only speculating on what he may have thought in response to your query, you're the one who started that trend ;) please show me where he 94 and 95 weren't close? ( which is true BTW ) where are you getting this info?
Well you have your interpretation of what it means , you want it to be close and maybe it would be but either way Dorian would beat him ;) like I said 1998 vs Dorian 1993 or 1995 would not be close at all
Ronnie 2001 vs Dorian 1993/1995 maybe very close Dorian just has to many pluses , Dorian at 269lbs vs Ronnie 2001 247lbs ;D Ronnie would be left for dead
Ok, Dorian has the advantage in conditioning also, but it wouldn't be a major advantage as with vs Nasser, Levrone, Ray, etc.
How much did Dorian 'weigh' in that 96 grand prix? Wasn't he almost as big as in 95? A little bigger than 93 maybe.
Ronnie still looked just as big as him, but softer obviously. Now factor in his 98 conditioning with the same size and Dorian's heavier scale weight wouldn't mean too much. There are so many examples of lighter guys beating heavier ones.
I think overall shape goes to Ronnie, much better taper, smaller joints, better muscle bellies overall, etc.
Muscularity - Even though Dorian was harder and better conditioned, Ronnie still displayed better muscularity or muscular definition. Let me explain, muscularity is the ability to show great muscle definition, separation, tie-ins, etc. correct?
Then Ronnie has the advantage in these areas, not in every single bodypart but overall yes.
Even though Dorian was harder, he never showed better overall separation than Ronnie, he never had Ronnie's outstanding tie-ins, he never had the same amount of overall muscle detail as Ronnie did. Call it genetics, but it is the truth.
Of course 94 & 95 weren't close at all, but I was trying to show how he bragged about it, how he is not someone who is careful of not coming off as arrogant.
Here is the thing you say 98 Ronnie vs 93/95 Dorian wouldn't be close and you say that in 2001 Ronnie vs the same versions of Dorian still its a sure Dorian victory. But here is the thing, Dorian who is an IFBB judge doesn't know who would win. He is the only judge's opinion we have on the subject, the rest of us and the "experts" can just speculate as you say.
Do you think your view or opinion on this has more weight than Dorian (IFBB judge) who says it would be a close contest?
-
Man, a lot of reading here.... ;D
After reading all of this and reviewing some of Dorian's best pics, I can honestly admit Dorian had the best conditioning, but here is the thing:
1. Quotes are good and these here show how no one was better conditioned than Dorian, but I remember reading a quote posted here about Ronnie in 2001, it was posted as a question and it went something like "has anyone ever presented a physique as hard and dry as this?" Meaning Ronnie's conditioning in 2001 was also legendary. Now take that his conditioning in 98 was equally as good (although I think he was drier) then you have a Ronnie in 98 with legendary conditioning aswell.
2. The majority of your quotes were from how Dorian dominated with his conditioning in his competitive years. Its still hard to determine how that conditioning would've helped him vs a greatly conditioned Ronnie. Let's face it, none of Dorian's competitors achieved the conditioning Ronnie achieved in 98/2001.
3. Even though Dorian's conditioning is legendary and unmatched, how close could Ronnie's best conditioning be? Most of your quotes say Dorian was unmatched, but they don't say how close a prime Ronnie would be.
munzer, ray, there are plenty of guys
-
munzer, ray, there are plenty of guys
I forgot about munzer, but he was still lacking too many things to challange dorian.
Ray not even close to Ronnie's conditioning.
-
I forgot about munzer, but he was still lacking too many things to challange dorian.
Ray not even close to Ronnie's conditioning.
I like you sully, thats why im going to kill you last.
Hahah.
Seriously tho, I like 99% of what you post, its a shame that you have to think Ronnie would win, and I have to think Dorian would win, otherwise we might be great posting friends. (No homo)
-
I like you sally, thats why im going to kill you last.
Hahah.
Seriously tho, I like 99% of what you post, its a shame that you have to think Ronnie would win, and I have to think Dorian would win, otherwise we might be great posting friends. (No homo)
lol..... is it not sully?
"what did you do with sully?"
-
lol..... is it not sully?
"what did you do with sully?"
It is. Epic mistype by me. Thats what I get for posting before Im awake.
-
Ronnie was not as dominating as people believe. He lost to Gunther as the reigning Mr. O and lost the challenge round to Gustavo on the Olympia stage. Dorian was never challenged after he won his first Olympia in '92 and was facing much tougher competition than Ronnie.
-
Ronnie was not as dominating as people believe. He lost to Gunther as the reigning Mr. O and lost the challenge round to Gustavo on the Olympia stage. Dorian was never challenged after he won his first Olympia in '92 and was facing much tougher competition than Ronnie.
Its all about the magazine hype. The magazines decided what people thought of Ronnie. He is the GOAT just due to his 8 O's, if nothing else.
-
I like you sully, thats why im going to kill you last.
Hahah.
Seriously tho, I like 99% of what you post, its a shame that you have to think Ronnie would win, and I have to think Dorian would win, otherwise we might be great posting friends. (No homo)
;D
I actually kind of changed my mind on this, I honestly don't know who would win...I think it would be very close, too close to call.
-
Ronnie was not as dominating as people believe. He lost to Gunther as the reigning Mr. O and lost the challenge round to Gustavo on the Olympia stage. Dorian was never challenged after he won his first Olympia in '92 and was facing much tougher competition than Ronnie.
I just have to say two things:
1. Ronnie also did a lot more competitions in a year than Dorian. But when it came time for the O he was dominating (possible exception 2001). The challenge round was a joke.
2. In my opinion Dorian also got kind of lucky: what if Haney had competed in 92? Flex Wheeler (Dorian's only threat back then) didn't compete both years (94 & 97) Dorian was off (to his own standard). Flex got into that unfortunate car accident and was never the same after that, we'll never know how he could've pushed Dorian.
-
;D
I actually kind of changed my mind on this, I honestly don't know who would win...I think it would be very close, too close to call.
My big thing isnt who you guys think would win, but that people like Hulkster go and make huge freak out things like how Dorian was the most Overrated Mr O ever, and that no one is close to Ronnie, etc. I have no problem with someone looking at the two and making their opionion, as long as its an educated opionion and not just a knee jerk "I like Ronnie/Dorian better so he would win" reaction a la Hulkster and Nirvana.
-
It is. Epic mistype by me. Thats what I get for posting before Im awake.
"what did u do with sully?"
" i let him go "
LOL
-
Man, a lot of reading here.... ;D
After reading all of this and reviewing some of Dorian's best pics, I can honestly admit Dorian had the best conditioning, but here is the thing:
1. Quotes are good and these here show how no one was better conditioned than Dorian, but I remember reading a quote posted here about Ronnie in 2001, it was posted as a question and it went something like "has anyone ever presented a physique as hard and dry as this?" Meaning Ronnie's conditioning in 2001 was also legendary. Now take that his conditioning in 98 was equally as good (although I think he was drier) then you have a Ronnie in 98 with legendary conditioning aswell.
2. The majority of your quotes were from how Dorian dominated with his conditioning in his competitive years. Its still hard to determine how that conditioning would've helped him vs a greatly conditioned Ronnie. Let's face it, none of Dorian's competitors achieved the conditioning Ronnie achieved in 98/2001.
3. Even though Dorian's conditioning is legendary and unmatched, how close could Ronnie's best conditioning be? Most of your quotes say Dorian was unmatched, but they don't say how close a prime Ronnie would be.
1. Quotes are good and these here show how no one was better conditioned than Dorian, but I remember reading a quote posted here about Ronnie in 2001, it was posted as a question and it went something like "has anyone ever presented a physique as hard and dry as this?" Meaning Ronnie's conditioning in 2001 was also legendary. Now take that his conditioning in 98 was equally as good (although I think he was drier) then you have a Ronnie in 98 with legendary conditioning aswell.
His conditioning is legendary when it only managed to nail-it perfectly twice in his career? ??? let's say he may have matched it or came close he doesn't have the muscular bulk to back it up , dryness and density and fullness while carrying the most muscular bulk , I think it's pretty clear who is better conditioned and it's not close
2. The majority of your quotes were from how Dorian dominated with his conditioning in his competitive years. Its still hard to determine how that conditioning would've helped him vs a greatly conditioned Ronnie. Let's face it, none of Dorian's competitors achieved the conditioning Ronnie achieved in 98/2001.
I laughed when you typed no of Dorian's competitors achieved the conditioning Ronnie did in 98/01 ;D the 90s is the golden era of conditioned bodybuilders
Flex June 2006
On March 10, six-time Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates (who adorns this month's cover) dropped by FLEX's Woodland Hills, California, offices. As it was about a week after the Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, our discussion turned to what transpired onstage there, and Dorian, who last competed in 1997, commented on the current state of pro bodybuilding.
The general level of conditioning among pros these days disappoints Dorian. Of course, after an opening statement like that, I flipped on my tape recorder and let the Shadow continue. "They just seem to want to go for size at the expense of everything," he said. "Although I was supposedly one of the first 'mass monsters,' when getting ready for a contest, mass wasn't my priority--getting cut, dry and totally separated was.
"Today, guys talk about coming in bigger and fuller when they would look better if they concentrated on coming in lighter and harder. I was willing to go that extra mile in getting rid of every possible ounce of bodyfat. I never had a 'guru', because I wanted to be the one who knew how my body worked--I couldn't see how anyone else could know my body better. My drive was that if I cut corners, the gap between me and other guys would be lessened. I wasn't willing to give them a break. All year-round I was dieting and calculating calories, carbs, fat and protein and logging everything in my journal. I weighed everything I ate. When I first came to the States for contests, I would see competing bodybuilders sitting in the hotel restaurant ordering food off the menu and I couldn't believe it. I never cheated or took risks on my diet."
Dorian wasn't the only great conditioned guy all though he stood above the best , most guys in the 90s were all in great shape while Ronnie's era NOT , Flex looked way better in 93 than 98/99 , Kevin looked eons better in 92/95 than 00/02 , Shawn in 92/94 compared to 98/99 , ironic that Ronnie only started beating them when he learned how to get hard & dry and they were past their primes
Has the quality of physique seen on the pro stage these days changed much compared to when you were competing as a professional?
Dorian Yates : I don't think the physiques have changed radically. I think a lot of people are trying to go the size route. My sole goal when getting ready for a contest was not building a lot of size, although when I was coming up pure muscle size was still very important. I was always really concerned about coming in very sharp conditioning wise.
I think that is lacking a little bit now, and it has occurred over the past few years. You go to a pro show now and you see a couple of guys who are in really good shape and the rest of the lineup is so-so, or not so good. Back when I was competing in the Olympia I think you saw a lot of guys who were in really good shape.
There was a greater emphasis on conditioning, but now you see guys going for size at the expense of conditioning. It seems strange me saying that, as I was known for my muscle size, but it was not my priority in getting ready for a contest. Obviously I carried a lot of muscle but my main thing was to come in super-ripped
Conditioning went down in Ronnie's era
3. Even though Dorian's conditioning is legendary and unmatched, how close could Ronnie's best conditioning be? Most of your quotes say Dorian was unmatched, but they don't say how close a prime Ronnie would be.
they don't say Ronnie was close at all you ever wonder why? did he deserved to be mentioned? apparently not
-
His conditioning is legendary when it only managed to nail-it perfectly twice in his career? ??? let's say he may have matched it or came close he doesn't have the muscular bulk to back it up , dryness and density and fullness while carrying the most muscular bulk , I think it's pretty clear who is better conditioned and it's not close
I laughed when you typed no of Dorian's competitors achieved the conditioning Ronnie did in 98/01 ;D the 90s is the golden era of conditioned bodybuilders
Flex June 2006
On March 10, six-time Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates (who adorns this month's cover) dropped by FLEX's Woodland Hills, California, offices. As it was about a week after the Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, our discussion turned to what transpired onstage there, and Dorian, who last competed in 1997, commented on the current state of pro bodybuilding.
The general level of conditioning among pros these days disappoints Dorian. Of course, after an opening statement like that, I flipped on my tape recorder and let the Shadow continue. "They just seem to want to go for size at the expense of everything," he said. "Although I was supposedly one of the first 'mass monsters,' when getting ready for a contest, mass wasn't my priority--getting cut, dry and totally separated was.
"Today, guys talk about coming in bigger and fuller when they would look better if they concentrated on coming in lighter and harder. I was willing to go that extra mile in getting rid of every possible ounce of bodyfat. I never had a 'guru', because I wanted to be the one who knew how my body worked--I couldn't see how anyone else could know my body better. My drive was that if I cut corners, the gap between me and other guys would be lessened. I wasn't willing to give them a break. All year-round I was dieting and calculating calories, carbs, fat and protein and logging everything in my journal. I weighed everything I ate. When I first came to the States for contests, I would see competing bodybuilders sitting in the hotel restaurant ordering food off the menu and I couldn't believe it. I never cheated or took risks on my diet."
Dorian wasn't the only great conditioned guy all though he stood above the best , most guys in the 90s were all in great shape while Ronnie's era NOT , Flex looked way better in 93 than 98/99 , Kevin looked eons better in 92/95 than 00/02 , Shawn in 92/94 compared to 98/99 , ironic that Ronnie only started beating them when he learned how to get hard & dry and they were past their primes
Has the quality of physique seen on the pro stage these days changed much compared to when you were competing as a professional?
Dorian Yates : I don't think the physiques have changed radically. I think a lot of people are trying to go the size route. My sole goal when getting ready for a contest was not building a lot of size, although when I was coming up pure muscle size was still very important. I was always really concerned about coming in very sharp conditioning wise.
I think that is lacking a little bit now, and it has occurred over the past few years. You go to a pro show now and you see a couple of guys who are in really good shape and the rest of the lineup is so-so, or not so good. Back when I was competing in the Olympia I think you saw a lot of guys who were in really good shape.
There was a greater emphasis on conditioning, but now you see guys going for size at the expense of conditioning. It seems strange me saying that, as I was known for my muscle size, but it was not my priority in getting ready for a contest. Obviously I carried a lot of muscle but my main thing was to come in super-ripped
Conditioning went down in Ronnie's era
they don't say Ronnie was close at all you ever wonder why? did he deserved to be mentioned? apparently not
His conditioning is legendary when it only managed to nail-it perfectly twice in his career? ??? let's say he may have matched it or came close he doesn't have the muscular bulk to back it up , dryness and density and fullness while carrying the most muscular bulk , I think it's pretty clear who is better conditioned and it's not close
What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.
I laughed when you typed no of Dorian's competitors achieved the conditioning Ronnie did in 98/01 ;D the 90s is the golden era of conditioned bodybuilders
Dorian wasn't the only great conditioned guy all though he stood above the best , most guys in the 90s were all in great shape while Ronnie's era NOT , Flex looked way better in 93 than 98/99 , Kevin looked eons better in 92/95 than 00/02 , Shawn in 92/94 compared to 98/99 , ironic that Ronnie only started beating them when he learned how to get hard & dry and they were past their primes
Conditioning went down in Ronnie's era
I never said guys in the 90s weren't greatly conditioned or anything like that. I never said conditioning didn't go down in the 2000s, I actually agree with that.
What I said is that Ronnie was better conditioned than any of Dorian's top competition. Do you think Shawn, Levrone or Flex matched Ronnie's conditioning in 98? I don't think so, they had amazing conditioning but not like Ronnie.
Flex in 93 AC probably did, but that version never went against Dorian.
they don't say Ronnie was close at all you ever wonder why? did he deserved to be mentioned? apparently not
I'm sure I've read plenty of quotes posted here about how Ronnie was the biggest most shredded bb or his dryness and hardness were great, etc.
-
My big thing isnt who you guys think would win, but that people like Hulkster go and make huge freak out things like how Dorian was the most Overrated Mr O ever, and that no one is close to Ronnie, etc. I have no problem with someone looking at the two and making their opionion, as long as its an educated opionion and not just a knee jerk "I like Ronnie/Dorian better so he would win" reaction a la Hulkster and Nirvana.
your assuming I think ronnie would win because I'm a fan of his? (and I think I know everything ::))
you don't even know how much of a dorian fan I am.
I think ronnie's better because... well read my posts, not due to being a fan, I'm an equal fan of both even if I do poke fun at dorian for debates sake. I could say the same about you two "just being fans". I could also pretend Im more educated and qualified you two. but I know I'm not.
-
Ok, he was a little bigger in 95, but most of it was in his torso anyway. Can you honestly say his arms, delts or legs were bigger? I think not.
Anothet thing, how balanced and proportionate was Dorian in 95 with his torso overpowering his arms?
Ok, Dorian has the advantage in conditioning also, but it wouldn't be a major advantage as with vs Nasser, Levrone, Ray, etc.
How much did Dorian 'weigh' in that 96 grand prix? Wasn't he almost as big as in 95? A little bigger than 93 maybe.
Ronnie still looked just as big as him, but softer obviously. Now factor in his 98 conditioning with the same size and Dorian's heavier scale weight wouldn't mean too much. There are so many examples of lighter guys beating heavier ones.
I think overall shape goes to Ronnie, much better taper, smaller joints, better muscle bellies overall, etc.
Muscularity - Even though Dorian was harder and better conditioned, Ronnie still displayed better muscularity or muscular definition. Let me explain, muscularity is the ability to show great muscle definition, separation, tie-ins, etc. correct?
Then Ronnie has the advantage in these areas, not in every single bodypart but overall yes.
Even though Dorian was harder, he never showed better overall separation than Ronnie, he never had Ronnie's outstanding tie-ins, he never had the same amount of overall muscle detail as Ronnie did. Call it genetics, but it is the truth.
Of course 94 & 95 weren't close at all, but I was trying to show how he bragged about it, how he is not someone who is careful of not coming off as arrogant.
Here is the thing you say 98 Ronnie vs 93/95 Dorian wouldn't be close and you say that in 2001 Ronnie vs the same versions of Dorian still its a sure Dorian victory. But here is the thing, Dorian who is an IFBB judge doesn't know who would win. He is the only judge's opinion we have on the subject, the rest of us and the "experts" can just speculate as you say.
Do you think your view or opinion on this has more weight than Dorian (IFBB judge) who says it would be a close contest?
Ok, he was a little bigger in 95, but most of it was in his torso anyway. Can you honestly say his arms, delts or legs were bigger? I think not.
Anothet thing, how balanced and proportionate was Dorian in 95 with his torso overpowering his arms?
says who? you? don't fixate on the weight but how they appeared , McGough & Yates agreed he was harder & fuller in 95 which means he was carrying more muscle and less intramuscular fat , Dorian was 270lbs in 1997 and 270lbs in the black & white photos the numbers means nothing because he looks much bigger & fuller and harder in 1993 vs 1997
You don't know where most of it was you're claiming to know maybe all those parts were bigger , maybe they were the same but if he's harder that means he's carrying more dense muscle and less intra-muscular fat so he's carrying more pure muscle in 95 than 93 and his torso overpowered his arms? according to who? you? that's another generalization , lets say it was a flaw it's not the only part of balance & proportion , you forget calves , upper-lower balance , torso length , leg length , forerarms to biceps/triceps , calves to quads , glutes ( Ronnie are so oversized they can be seem from the front ) I mean you're taking a very narrow view of what balance & proportion are for a reason you're trying to make it close when it's really not
Forget 1995 , we'll go with his best showing 1993 B&W pre-contest , his bicep wasn't torn his arms were huge , he was huge and full and dense & dry and complete , the distance between them really increases when we use this version
Ok, Dorian has the advantage in conditioning also, but it wouldn't be a major advantage as with vs Nasser, Levrone, Ray, etc.
All three had awesome conditioning , Nasser was the exception because of his back , Nasser was hard as hails from the front and soft from the back , Dorian has a clear advantage in conditioning but you can't just focus on that , it's the conditioning AND he size AND the balance AND the posing it's everything combined , that's how it works
How much did Dorian 'weigh' in that 96 grand prix? Wasn't he almost as big as in 95? A little bigger than 93 maybe.
Ronnie still looked just as big as him, but softer obviously. Now factor in his 98 conditioning with the same size and Dorian's heavier scale weight wouldn't mean too much. There are so many examples of lighter guys beating heavier one
I'm actually not sure but he looked smaller than usual like the Olympia where he was listed as 255lbs which is slightly lighter than 93 but he was flat especially in the quads and his arms were smaller than usual , the scale number means nothing compared to how you appear , Ronnie looked just as big? I don't see it at all and lets say he had the same dimensions it doesn't matter his conditioning paled in comparison , lets say Ronnie was 250 and Dorian was 250 guess who is carrying more dense , dry pure muscle at that weight.
Ronnie 1998 would still not be as full , hard , dry , or as balanced as Dorian or complete and he would have bitch-tits , plenty of examples of lighter guys beating heavier ones no kidding , Dorian was lighter than , Dillett , Ferigno , Harrison , Nasser , same with Shawn Ray , but how many of those lighter guys beat Dorian? NONE
I think overall shape goes to Ronnie, much better taper, smaller joints, better muscle bellies overall, etc.
well we can play this two ways , lets say he did that means nothing because Dorian crushed Flex whose shape is eons better than Ronnies , or we can say in some parts yes and some no , overall? NO I would agree if he had collected more mandatory poses but he doesn't , front latspread , rear latspread , side triceps , ab-thigh Dorian kills him in , in some muscles Ronnie yes , in some Dorian sure overall Ronnie doesn't beat him and even entertaining he did it would mean nothing , ask Flex
Muscularity - Even though Dorian was harder and better conditioned, Ronnie still displayed better muscularity or muscular definition. Let me explain, muscularity is the ability to show great muscle definition, separation, tie-ins, etc. correct?
Then Ronnie has the advantage in these areas, not in every single bodypart but overall yes.
Even though Dorian was harder, he never showed better overall separation than Ronnie, he never had Ronnie's outstanding tie-ins, he never had the same amount of overall muscle detail as Ronnie did. Call it genetics, but it is the truth.
detail isn't muscularity , muscularity is a byproduct of you guessed it conditioning , who is the hardest , driest who is showing the most musculature. Detail is obviously a byproduct of great conditioning muscle dryness and hardness are the epitome of muscularity however when it's not backed up with the muscular bulk , balance & proportion and posing & presentation it's not worth much alone ask Hamdullah Aykutlu in 1993 who displayed outstanding muscularity and he finished 17th in 93
Quote from Greg Zulak, "MuscleMag", early 1997:
"The most amazing characteristic, of Dorian, is not his size per se, but his muscularity: not only is his muscle-per-square-inch ratio the greatest ever, but his muscles seem like they were etched in stone, such is their hardness."
And where is Ronnie more separated? I always asked these guys before and they never had an answer , what muscles besides biceps show better separation? back? NO triceps? NO hams? NO quads? maybe in the rectus femoris YES calves? NO forearms? NO chest? NO abdominals? NO midsection? NO delts? NO where is this better separation? Ronnie may show better detail in some parts , tie-ins Ronnie might have the edge , overall muscularity? Dorian by far
Of course 94 & 95 weren't close at all, but I was trying to show how he bragged about it, how he is not someone who is careful of not coming off as arrogant.
You didn't answer the question , where did he brag about it?
Here is the thing you say 98 Ronnie vs 93/95 Dorian wouldn't be close and you say that in 2001 Ronnie vs the same versions of Dorian still its a sure Dorian victory. But here is the thing, Dorian who is an IFBB judge doesn't know who would win. He is the only judge's opinion we have on the subject, the rest of us and the "experts" can just speculate as you say.
Do you think your view or opinion on this has more weight than Dorian (IFBB judge) who says it would be a close contest?
Actually I put WAY , WAY more thought into than Dorian ever did ;) it's an opinion and seeing it's such means there is technically no right and wrong , again it's a question he obviously doesn't put much thought into which is why he says I guess I don't know , he already said he has the advantage in conditioning & balance , what's left? muscular bulk and posing? he already admits he owns half of the criteria , again he's asked to speculate on the spot on a hypothetical situation and he says he doesn't know you're attempting to claim because he doesn't want to commit answer that it might somehow be very close , that's you projecting
-
Ronnie was not as dominating as people believe. He lost to Gunther as the reigning Mr. O and lost the challenge round to Gustavo on the Olympia stage. Dorian was never challenged after he won his first Olympia in '92 and was facing much tougher competition than Ronnie.
QFT a lot of his Olympia titles were close regardless of what fanboys try and claim to the contrary
Coleman's 1998 Olympia victory] was not a definitive win. In 99, Big Ron was lucky to defeat Flex Wheeler again. Levrone thought he'd beaten him twice, in 2000 and 2002. At the 2002 show, Levrone had won both of the evening rounds (a year on, at the Olympia press conference before the 2003 show, Coleman would chide Levrone, asking him, 'When was the last time you beat me?' Levrone replied, 'Last year.'). In 2001, Jay Cutler beat Ronnie in both the first two rounds and lost by four points.
Coleman had not replicated the dominance of Haney and Yates. He always seemed slightly vulnerable, protected as much by protocol as his physique
-
I just have to say two things:
1. Ronnie also did a lot more competitions in a year than Dorian. But when it came time for the O he was dominating (possible exception 2001). The challenge round was a joke.
2. In my opinion Dorian also got kind of lucky: what if Haney had competed in 92? Flex Wheeler (Dorian's only threat back then) didn't compete both years (94 & 97) Dorian was off (to his own standard). Flex got into that unfortunate car accident and was never the same after that, we'll never know how he could've pushed Dorian.
1. Ronnie also did a lot more competitions in a year than Dorian. But when it came time for the O he was dominating (possible exception 2001). The challenge round was a joke.
no he wasn't , first win was anything but dominating one of the closest contests it history , 99 Ronnie dominated straight firsts , 2000 another dominating win , 2001 lost the entire prejudging , 2002 lost the posing rounds , 2003 crushed everyone , 2004 very close contest , 2005 he didn't dominate but won
at times he dominated but not like Dorian did
2. In my opinion Dorian also got kind of lucky: what if Haney had competed in 92? Flex Wheeler (Dorian's only threat back then) didn't compete both years (94 & 97) Dorian was off (to his own standard). Flex got into that unfortunate car accident and was never the same after that, we'll never know how he could've pushed Dorian.
If Haney competed and looked the same he did in 91 in 92 and Yates looked the same he did in 92 , Haney would have won , by 1993 Dorian would have crushed any Haney , Flex at close to his all-time best was utterly destroyed by Dorian in fact Flex said Dorian was ' unbeatable ' he didn't replicate his 93 form so who knows if that would have been enough to beat Dorian either in 94 or 97 maybe , he was the one guy who could have
if we use that logic then we can say Ronnie is lucky Dorian injured himself because if he didn't Ronnie wouldn't have ever won
-
What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.
I never said guys in the 90s weren't greatly conditioned or anything like that. I never said conditioning didn't go down in the 2000s, I actually agree with that.
What I said is that Ronnie was better conditioned than any of Dorian's top competition. Do you think Shawn, Levrone or Flex matched Ronnie's conditioning in 98? I don't think so, they had amazing conditioning but not like Ronnie.
Flex in 93 AC probably did, but that version never went against Dorian.
I'm sure I've read plenty of quotes posted here about how Ronnie was the biggest most shredded bb or his dryness and hardness were great, etc.
What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.
what's it have to do with it? it's not stuff of legend , in fact Ronnie was more ' off ' than on. The problem we have here is you don't know what conditioning is , density IS muscle hardness and Ronnie does NOT match him here , in fact he doesn't touch him in conditioning , DENSITY , DRYNESS and FULLNESS while carrying the most muscular bulk , Ronnie's never been referred to as ' grainy ' or having skin like ' tissue paper ' conditioning is NOT close at all Dorian kills them all not just Ronnie
I never said guys in the 90s weren't greatly conditioned or anything like that. I never said conditioning didn't go down in the 2000s, I actually agree with that.
What I said is that Ronnie was better conditioned than any of Dorian's top competition. Do you think Shawn, Levrone or Flex matched Ronnie's conditioning in 98? I don't think so, they had amazing conditioning but not like Ronnie.
Flex in 93 AC probably did, but that version never went against Dorian.
yes I absolutely think Kevin , Shawn and Flex all came in in just as good as shape as Ronnie when they were competing with Dorian , Ronnie was always behind the best in the 90s for that reason
I'm sure I've read plenty of quotes posted here about how Ronnie was the biggest most shredded bb or his dryness and hardness were great, etc.
yeah those quotes were posted compared to guys he competed with m he wasn't against Dorian whose conditioning is still talked about 13 years after he retired
-
your assuming I think ronnie would win because I'm a fan of his? (and I think I know everything ::))
you don't even know how much of a dorian fan I am.
I think ronnie's better because... well read my posts, not due to being a fan, I'm an equal fan of both even if I do poke fun at dorian for debates sake. I could say the same about you two "just being fans". I could also pretend Im more educated and qualified you two. but I know I'm not.
I never though Dorian should have won in 1993 , I thought Flex should have won hands down I was calling it a fix back then ! then I learned how contests were judged and realized just how far Dorian was compared to everyone
Dorian is not my favorite bodybuilder , that's the thing I would never want to look like him , I don't train like him , I don't buy his supplements , this shows I can be objective and I'm not just blindly following him
-
how can you type such utter bullshit? ::)
you really think anyone will believe that dorian is not your fav. bodybuilder given your posts and rep. on this board? ::)
and by the way, you STILL haven't learned how contests are judged.
thats exactly why you think dorian would win over a peak ronnie.
you are misguided and misinformed.
-
how can you type such utter bullshit? ::)
you really think anyone will believe that dorian is not your fav. bodybuilder given your posts and rep. on this board? ::)
and by the way, you STILL haven't learned how contests are judged.
thats exactly why you think dorian would win over a peak ronnie.
you are misguided and misinformed.
meltdown as usual
yes we all know Hulkster knows how contests are judged , according to you ( fucking moron ;D ) Dorian lost the most dominating Olympia win in the sport's history and Ronnie dominated a contest he lost the entire prejudging in
it takes moments to destroy you because you're stupid thanks for playing ;)
-
says who? you? don't fixate on the weight but how they appeared , McGough & Yates agreed he was harder & fuller in 95 which means he was carrying more muscle and less intramuscular fat , Dorian was 270lbs in 1997 and 270lbs in the black & white photos the numbers means nothing because he looks much bigger & fuller and harder in 1993 vs 1997
You don't know where most of it was you're claiming to know maybe all those parts were bigger , maybe they were the same but if he's harder that means he's carrying more dense muscle and less intra-muscular fat so he's carrying more pure muscle in 95 than 93 and his torso overpowered his arms? according to who? you? that's another generalization , lets say it was a flaw it's not the only part of balance & proportion , you forget calves , upper-lower balance , torso length , leg length , forerarms to biceps/triceps , calves to quads , glutes ( Ronnie are so oversized they can be seem from the front ) I mean you're taking a very narrow view of what balance & proportion are for a reason you're trying to make it close when it's really not
Forget 1995 , we'll go with his best showing 1993 B&W pre-contest , his bicep wasn't torn his arms were huge , he was huge and full and dense & dry and complete , the distance between them really increases when we use this version
All three had awesome conditioning , Nasser was the exception because of his back , Nasser was hard as hails from the front and soft from the back , Dorian has a clear advantage in conditioning but you can't just focus on that , it's the conditioning AND he size AND the balance AND the posing it's everything combined , that's how it works
I'm actually not sure but he looked smaller than usual like the Olympia where he was listed as 255lbs which is slightly lighter than 93 but he was flat especially in the quads and his arms were smaller than usual , the scale number means nothing compared to how you appear , Ronnie looked just as big? I don't see it at all and lets say he had the same dimensions it doesn't matter his conditioning paled in comparison , lets say Ronnie was 250 and Dorian was 250 guess who is carrying more dense , dry pure muscle at that weight.
Ronnie 1998 would still not be as full , hard , dry , or as balanced as Dorian or complete and he would have bitch-tits , plenty of examples of lighter guys beating heavier ones no kidding , Dorian was lighter than , Dillett , Ferigno , Harrison , Nasser , same with Shawn Ray , but how many of those lighter guys beat Dorian? NONE
well we can play this two ways , lets say he did that means nothing because Dorian crushed Flex whose shape is eons better than Ronnies , or we can say in some parts yes and some no , overall? NO I would agree if he had collected more mandatory poses but he doesn't , front latspread , rear latspread , side triceps , ab-thigh Dorian kills him in , in some muscles Ronnie yes , in some Dorian sure overall Ronnie doesn't beat him and even entertaining he did it would mean nothing , ask Flex
detail isn't muscularity , muscularity is a byproduct of you guessed it conditioning , who is the hardest , driest who is showing the most musculature. Detail is obviously a byproduct of great conditioning muscle dryness and hardness are the epitome of muscularity however when it's not backed up with the muscular bulk , balance & proportion and posing & presentation it's not worth much alone ask Hamdullah Aykutlu in 1993 who displayed outstanding muscularity and he finished 17th in 93
Quote from Greg Zulak, "MuscleMag", early 1997:
"The most amazing characteristic, of Dorian, is not his size per se, but his muscularity: not only is his muscle-per-square-inch ratio the greatest ever, but his muscles seem like they were etched in stone, such is their hardness."
And where is Ronnie more separated? I always asked these guys before and they never had an answer , what muscles besides biceps show better separation? back? NO triceps? NO hams? NO quads? maybe in the rectus femoris YES calves? NO forearms? NO chest? NO abdominals? NO midsection? NO delts? NO where is this better separation? Ronnie may show better detail in some parts , tie-ins Ronnie might have the edge , overall muscularity? Dorian by far
You didn't answer the question , where did he brag about it?
Actually I put WAY , WAY more thought into than Dorian ever did ;) it's an opinion and seeing it's such means there is technically no right and wrong , again it's a question he obviously doesn't put much thought into which is why he says I guess I don't know , he already said he has the advantage in conditioning & balance , what's left? muscular bulk and posing? he already admits he owns half of the criteria , again he's asked to speculate on the spot on a hypothetical situation and he says he doesn't know you're attempting to claim because he doesn't want to commit answer that it might somehow be very close , that's you projecting
says who? you? don't fixate on the weight but how they appeared , McGough & Yates agreed he was harder & fuller in 95 which means he was carrying more muscle and less intramuscular fat , Dorian was 270lbs in 1997 and 270lbs in the black & white photos the numbers means nothing because he looks much bigger & fuller and harder in 1993 vs 1997
You don't know where most of it was you're claiming to know maybe all those parts were bigger , maybe they were the same but if he's harder that means he's carrying more dense muscle and less intra-muscular fat so he's carrying more pure muscle in 95 than 93 and his torso overpowered his arms? according to who? you? that's another generalization , lets say it was a flaw it's not the only part of balance & proportion , you forget calves , upper-lower balance , torso length , leg length , forerarms to biceps/triceps , calves to quads , glutes ( Ronnie are so oversized they can be seem from the front ) I mean you're taking a very narrow view of what balance & proportion are for a reason you're trying to make it close when it's really not
This is exactly what I'm doing, I'm not fixating on the numbers. You are when you say Dorian beats Ronnie in size because he has more muscular bulk.
Dorian was fuller and harder meaning he was carrying more dense muscle I agree here, but my question was were was all that muscle distributed? All over? It didn't seem so and there is no quote for you to proof that.
Obviously the arm/torso thing of Dorian is only part of balance & proportion and Ronnie has the problems with his calves/upper legs, forearms/upper arms and upper/ lower body balance; which is why I already admitted that Dorian has better balance & proportion. Why do you keep posting this? All I said was Dorian's balance & proportion in 95 wouldn't have been as good as in 93 = his extra muscular bulk wasn't as evenly distributed.
Forget 1995 , we'll go with his best showing 1993 B&W pre-contest , his bicep wasn't torn his arms were huge , he was huge and full and dense & dry and complete , the distance between them really increases when we use this version
I already posted that Dorian in the b&w precontest version beats Ronnie any version and just about any other bodybuilder too. But like I also said: he never took that package to the stage which brings the question of how Ronnie looked 'x' weeks out from 'x' contest.
I'm actually not sure but he looked smaller than usual like the Olympia where he was listed as 255lbs which is slightly lighter than 93 but he was flat especially in the quads and his arms were smaller than usual , the scale number means nothing compared to how you appear , Ronnie looked just as big? I don't see it at all and lets say he had the same dimensions it doesn't matter his conditioning paled in comparison , lets say Ronnie was 250 and Dorian was 250 guess who is carrying more dense , dry pure muscle at that weight.
Ronnie 1998 would still not be as full , hard , dry , or as balanced as Dorian or complete and he would have bitch-tits , plenty of examples of lighter guys beating heavier ones no kidding , Dorian was lighter than , Dillett , Ferigno , Harrison , Nasser , same with Shawn Ray , but how many of those lighter guys beat Dorian? NONE
Again the bolded part is what I was trying to say, a lighter Ronnie would look just as big as Dorian. Ronnie wouldn't be as dense and hard, ok I agree. Ronnie would be just as dry in 98, you said this too. Fullness? I don't get why Dorian would be fuller.
No sense going over this as I already posted Dorian has better conditioning overall, his advantage wouldn't be as dominating as in the 90s though, which is why I think Ronnie would be closer to him than Levrone, Nasser, etc.
well we can play this two ways , lets say he did that means nothing because Dorian crushed Flex whose shape is eons better than Ronnies , or we can say in some parts yes and some no , overall? NO I would agree if he had collected more mandatory poses but he doesn't , front latspread , rear latspread , side triceps , ab-thigh Dorian kills him in , in some muscles Ronnie yes , in some Dorian sure overall Ronnie doesn't beat him and even entertaining he did it would mean nothing , ask Flex
Flex is no Ronnie though.
detail isn't muscularity , muscularity is a byproduct of you guessed it conditioning , who is the hardest , driest who is showing the most musculature. Detail is obviously a byproduct of great conditioning muscle dryness and hardness are the epitome of muscularity however when it's not backed up with the muscular bulk , balance & proportion and posing & presentation it's not worth much alone ask Hamdullah Aykutlu in 1993 who displayed outstanding muscularity and he finished 17th in 93
And where is Ronnie more separated? I always asked these guys before and they never had an answer , what muscles besides biceps show better separation? back? NO triceps? NO hams? NO quads? maybe in the rectus femoris YES calves? NO forearms? NO chest? NO abdominals? NO midsection? NO delts? NO where is this better separation? Ronnie may show better detail in some parts , tie-ins Ronnie might have the edge , overall muscularity? Dorian by far
Detail is a by product of great conditioning, well guess who showed better detail? Ronnie.
Overall I think Ronnie is more separated. His whole arms and shoulders are have better separation than Dorian, his chest, his quads. Backs and hams are equal and Dorian has better separation in calves, abs.
Now take this to poses and overall Ronnie shows better detail and separation and tie-ins and is equally dry to show them.
The only two poses I give Dorian in this aspect of muscularity are ab&thigh and side triceps.
You didn't answer the question , where did he brag about it?
Actually I put WAY , WAY more thought into than Dorian ever did ;) it's an opinion and seeing it's such means there is technically no right and wrong , again it's a question he obviously doesn't put much thought into which is why he says I guess I don't know , he already said he has the advantage in conditioning & balance , what's left? muscular bulk and posing? he already admits he owns half of the criteria , again he's asked to speculate on the spot on a hypothetical situation and he says he doesn't know you're attempting to claim because he doesn't want to commit answer that it might somehow be very close , that's you projecting
A thread in MD, people were discussing the 94 Olympia and someone posted something along these lines: "Dorian already said that contest wasn't even close". I assumed he wasn't lying.
So your opinion is more valid than an IFBB judge?
You're assuming he didn't put much thought into it. How much thought do you think judges have the time to put in when judging a contest?
And do you know what is interesting? He was actually giving it to Ronnie first and then said I don't know, that shows how close it would be for him an IFBB judge.
The thing is you've used the whole Ronnie said Dorian would beat him so much in the past to try and end this 'debate'. Well, guess what? I can so the same with what Dorian said.
Who's opinion do you think is more valid Ronnie or an IFBB judge?
-
what's it have to do with it? it's not stuff of legend , in fact Ronnie was more ' off ' than on. The problem we have here is you don't know what conditioning is , density IS muscle hardness and Ronnie does NOT match him here , in fact he doesn't touch him in conditioning , DENSITY , DRYNESS and FULLNESS while carrying the most muscular bulk , Ronnie's never been referred to as ' grainy ' or having skin like ' tissue paper ' conditioning is NOT close at all Dorian kills them all not just Ronnie
yes I absolutely think Kevin , Shawn and Flex all came in in just as good as shape as Ronnie when they were competing with Dorian , Ronnie was always behind the best in the 90s for that reason
yeah those quotes were posted compared to guys he competed with m he wasn't against Dorian whose conditioning is still talked about 13 years after he retired
Dorian's conditioning is better, but I don't think he kills Ronnie with it. Ronnie's conditioning has also been talked about (not to the extent of Dorian) and there are quotes of this. I never read anything regarding Levrone's, Shawn's, Nasser's or Flex's conditioning being something to remember. (Like I said possible exception Flex at the 93 AC).
-
no he wasn't , first win was anything but dominating one of the closest contests it history , 99 Ronnie dominated straight firsts , 2000 another dominating win , 2001 lost the entire prejudging , 2002 lost the posing rounds , 2003 crushed everyone , 2004 very close contest , 2005 he didn't dominate but won
at times he dominated but not like Dorian did
If Haney competed and looked the same he did in 91 in 92 and Yates looked the same he did in 92 , Haney would have won , by 1993 Dorian would have crushed any Haney , Flex at close to his all-time best was utterly destroyed by Dorian in fact Flex said Dorian was ' unbeatable ' he didn't replicate his 93 form so who knows if that would have been enough to beat Dorian either in 94 or 97 maybe , he was the one guy who could have
if we use that logic then we can say Ronnie is lucky Dorian injured himself because if he didn't Ronnie wouldn't have ever won
I pretty much agree with everthing you posted here except one thing: Ronnie wouldn't have won if Dorian hadn't retired.
Do you think a version of Dorian in 97 would've beaten a 98 Ronnie? I'm sorry, but this is too much :P :-\ :-X
-
This is exactly what I'm doing, I'm not fixating on the numbers. You are when you say Dorian beats Ronnie in size because he has more muscular bulk.
Dorian was fuller and harder meaning he was carrying more dense muscle I agree here, but my question was were was all that muscle distributed? All over? It didn't seem so and there is no quote for you to proof that.
Obviously the arm/torso thing of Dorian is only part of balance & proportion and Ronnie has the problems with his calves/upper legs, forearms/upper arms and upper/ lower body balance; which is why I already admitted that Dorian has better balance & proportion. Why do you keep posting this? All I said was Dorian's balance & proportion in 95 wouldn't have been as good as in 93 = his extra muscular bulk wasn't as evenly distributed.
I already posted that Dorian in the b&w precontest version beats Ronnie any version and just about any other bodybuilder too. But like I also said: he never took that package to the stage which brings the question of how Ronnie looked 'x' weeks out from 'x' contest.
Again the bolded part is what I was trying to say, a lighter Ronnie would look just as big as Dorian. Ronnie wouldn't be as dense and hard, ok I agree. Ronnie would be just as dry in 98, you said this too. Fullness? I don't get why Dorian would be fuller.
No sense going over this as I already posted Dorian has better conditioning overall, his advantage wouldn't be as dominating as in the 90s though, which is why I think Ronnie would be closer to him than Levrone, Nasser, etc.
Flex is no Ronnie though.
Detail is a by product of great conditioning, well guess who showed better detail? Ronnie.
Overall I think Ronnie is more separated. His whole arms and shoulders are have better separation than Dorian, his chest, his quads. Backs and hams are equal and Dorian has better separation in calves, abs.
Now take this to poses and overall Ronnie shows better detail and separation and tie-ins and is equally dry to show them.
The only two poses I give Dorian in this aspect of muscularity are ab&thigh and side triceps.
A thread in MD, people were discussing the 94 Olympia and someone posted something along these lines: "Dorian already said that contest wasn't even close". I assumed he wasn't lying.
So your opinion is more valid than an IFBB judge?
You're assuming he didn't put much thought into it. How much thought do you think judges have the time to put in when judging a contest?
And do you know what is interesting? He was actually giving it to Ronnie first and then said I don't know, that shows how close it would be for him an IFBB judge.
The thing is you've used the whole Ronnie said Dorian would beat him so much in the past to try and end this 'debate'. Well, guess what? I can so the same with what Dorian said.
Who's opinion do you think is more valid Ronnie or an IFBB judge?
This is exactly what I'm doing, I'm not fixating on the numbers. You are when you say Dorian beats Ronnie in size because he has more muscular bulk.
Dorian was fuller and harder meaning he was carrying more dense muscle I agree here, but my question was were was all that muscle distributed? All over? It didn't seem so and there is no quote for you to proof that.
No you're doing it for Ronnie yet not for Dorian . you're dismissing his extra weight in 95 as all in his gut where was it all? all over Dorian was 257lbs in 1996 did he look exactly the same as he did in 1993? NO why? the was exactly same weight so every muscle must be the same size everywhere not how it works
Obviously the arm/torso thing of Dorian is only part of balance & proportion and Ronnie has the problems with his calves/upper legs, forearms/upper arms and upper/ lower body balance; which is why I already admitted that Dorian has better balance & proportion. Why do you keep posting this? All I said was Dorian's balance & proportion in 95 wouldn't have been as good as in 93 = his extra muscular bulk wasn't as evenly distributed.
lets say it's not as good as 93 in 95 still better than Ronnie , so it doesn't matter. and one bicep shorter than the other doesn't ruin his entire balance & proportion either that's really reaching
I already posted that Dorian in the b&w precontest version beats Ronnie any version and just about any other bodybuilder too. But like I also said: he never took that package to the stage which brings the question of how Ronnie looked 'x' weeks out from 'x' contest.
the debate always was Dorian at his best many feel that is his best stop using the stage as an excuse. you can show me any pics of Ronnie precontest and Dorian still has em in you guessed it all the same criteria , Ronnie's conditioning , balance all go to shit the heavier he becomes
Wayne Demilla " I've said to Ronnie , " What you've got to realize is that in 98-99 you were probably in the best proportion you could be for your frame . Those muscles have gotten bigger. Just cos you're bigger , doesn't make you better . "
Again the bolded part is what I was trying to say, a lighter Ronnie would look just as big as Dorian. Ronnie wouldn't be as dense and hard, ok I agree. Ronnie would be just as dry in 98, you said this too. Fullness? I don't get why Dorian would be fuller.
No sense going over this as I already posted Dorian has better conditioning overall, his advantage wouldn't be as dominating as in the 90s though, which is why I think Ronnie would be closer to him than Levrone, Nasser, etc.
No sense going over this? you don't even know what you're going over , you're claiming Ronnie is close on dryness and density and Dorian wins on hardness it's the same thing , you honestly can't comment on whose better conditioned when you don't know what it is.
Why would Dorian be fuller? more muscle and less fat = density , Dorian's conditioning is better anyone who knows what it is wont honestly argue to the contrary
Flex is no Ronnie though.
In terms of shape Flex kills him
Detail is a by product of great conditioning, well guess who showed better detail? Ronnie.
Overall I think Ronnie is more separated. His whole arms and shoulders are have better separation than Dorian, his chest, his quads. Backs and hams are equal and Dorian has better separation in calves, abs.
Now take this to poses and overall Ronnie shows better detail and separation and tie-ins and is equally dry to show them.
The only two poses I give Dorian in this aspect of muscularity are ab&thigh and side triceps.
Better detail where? in his biceps? sure more separated in his whole arms? ::) and shoulders? ::) you just keep taking broad brush strokes where is the better detail besides the biceps? Dorian has striated triceps , pecs , intercostals , obliques , glutes , Dorian has striated traps I never seen those from Ronnie , and guess who has the better & more detailed x-mass tree? you keep making just gross over-statements , Dorian's advantage in muscularity and all aspects of it are evident in ANY pose and considering all rounds are physique rounds ALL of the criteria which leads me back to my same old point , Ronnie may meet part(s) of criteria better than Dorian he doesn't meet ALL of it better than Dorian
A thread in MD, people were discussing the 94 Olympia and someone posted something along these lines: "Dorian already said that contest wasn't even close". I assumed he wasn't lying.
this is your source for 94 and 95 as you claimed? even if he did say it it's still truth
So your opinion is more valid than an IFBB judge?
You're assuming he didn't put much thought into it. How much thought do you think judges have the time to put in when judging a contest?
And do you know what is interesting? He was actually giving it to Ronnie first and then said I don't know, that shows how close it would be for him an IFBB judge.
Where did I say it was more valid? please post that and my opinion is right in line with his , Dorian kills him om conditioning and balance , and you're right I'm assuming he didn't put much thought into it , he never gave a definitive answer it's safe to assume , he said multiple times it was a very hard question to answer .
besides not knowing how conditioning is you're now proving you don't know how contests are judged , judges have a lot of time to judge contests , prejudging can sometimes take 3 hours in some cases they split the contest into two days , and judges , judge what's in front of them not one guy from 1993 and one from 2001 the nature of that alone isn't something one can answer on a whim
did you miss the part where he said I guess I don't know? I guess.. obviously it means he not basing it on knowing or putting much thought into it , maybe it would be close , maybe it wouldn't it's all speculation in the end , what he do know is statistically the odd favor Dorian , the guy never placed below second in a pro show and beat Ronnie 8 times.
The thing is you've used the whole Ronnie said Dorian would beat him so much in the past to try and end this 'debate'. Well, guess what? I can so the same with what Dorian said.
Who's opinion do you think is more valid Ronnie or an IFBB judge?
I used that as what? proof? NO sorry in fact I said just because Ronnie said it doesn't make it so , but those quotes from Ronnie end anything Hulkster could type and it utterly killed him to hear Ronnie consistently say he wouldn't beat him
And NO you can't do the same with Dorian because one he said he didn't know , and Ronnie said he did know , BIG difference there.
so keep trying to read more into that Yates quote than whats there in the end he said ' I don't know ' Ronnie on the other hand seems to know
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him.
notice he mentions Dorian has a big physique ( muscular bulk ) and he's hard ( density ) and a big guy with a lot going for him ;)
-
I pretty much agree with everthing you posted here except one thing: Ronnie wouldn't have won if Dorian hadn't retired.
Do you think a version of Dorian in 97 would've beaten a 98 Ronnie? I'm sorry, but this is too much :P :-\ :-X
Please reread
if we use that logic then we can say Ronnie is lucky Dorian injured himself because if he didn't Ronnie wouldn't have ever won
because if he didn't I'm not sure if you completely read what I typed.
-
too big and complete for Ronnie..
8)
-
Please reread
if we use that logic then we can say Ronnie is lucky Dorian injured himself because if he didn't Ronnie wouldn't have ever won
because if he didn't I'm not sure if you completely read what I typed.
You=Hulkster ;)
-
Dorian's conditioning is better, but I don't think he kills Ronnie with it. Ronnie's conditioning has also been talked about (not to the extent of Dorian) and there are quotes of this. I never read anything regarding Levrone's, Shawn's, Nasser's or Flex's conditioning being something to remember. (Like I said possible exception Flex at the 93 AC).
Did you read the quote where Dorian said when he competed there was more of an emphasis on conditioning? and now and days ( Ronnie's era ) there are one or two guys in shape?
like I said even the guys who competed with Dorian and Ronnie were all in fantastic conditioning when he faced them compared to Ronnie , Flex 93 compared to 98/99 , Shawn 94/96 compared to 98/99 Kevin 92/95 compared to 00/02 where he actually beat Ronnie in 2002 in the posing rounds , Nasser 1995/1996 compared to 98/99/01 I mean none of them were on Dorian's level but neither was Ronnie
-
No you're doing it for Ronnie yet not for Dorian . you're dismissing his extra weight in 95 as all in his gut where was it all? all over Dorian was 257lbs in 1996 did he look exactly the same as he did in 1993? NO why? the was exactly same weight so every muscle must be the same size everywhere not how it works
lets say it's not as good as 93 in 95 still better than Ronnie , so it doesn't matter. and one bicep shorter than the other doesn't ruin his entire balance & proportion either that's really reaching
the debate always was Dorian at his best many feel that is his best stop using the stage as an excuse. you can show me any pics of Ronnie precontest and Dorian still has em in you guessed it all the same criteria , Ronnie's conditioning , balance all go to shit the heavier he becomes
Wayne Demilla " I've said to Ronnie , " What you've got to realize is that in 98-99 you were probably in the best proportion you could be for your frame . Those muscles have gotten bigger. Just cos you're bigger , doesn't make you better . "
No sense going over this? you don't even know what you're going over , you're claiming Ronnie is close on dryness and density and Dorian wins on hardness it's the same thing , you honestly can't comment on whose better conditioned when you don't know what it is.
Why would Dorian be fuller? more muscle and less fat = density , Dorian's conditioning is better anyone who knows what it is wont honestly argue to the contrary
In terms of shape Flex kills him
Better detail where? in his biceps? sure more separated in his whole arms? ::) and shoulders? ::) you just keep taking broad brush strokes where is the better detail besides the biceps? Dorian has striated triceps , pecs , intercostals , obliques , glutes , Dorian has striated traps I never seen those from Ronnie , and guess who has the better & more detailed x-mass tree? you keep making just gross over-statements , Dorian's advantage in muscularity and all aspects of it are evident in ANY pose and considering all rounds are physique rounds ALL of the criteria which leads me back to my same old point , Ronnie may meet part(s) of criteria better than Dorian he doesn't meet ALL of it better than Dorian
this is your source for 94 and 95 as you claimed? even if he did say it it's still truth
Where did I say it was more valid? please post that and my opinion is right in line with his , Dorian kills him om conditioning and balance , and you're right I'm assuming he didn't put much thought into it , he never gave a definitive answer it's safe to assume , he said multiple times it was a very hard question to answer .
besides not knowing how conditioning is you're now proving you don't know how contests are judged , judges have a lot of time to judge contests , prejudging can sometimes take 3 hours in some cases they split the contest into two days , and judges , judge what's in front of them not one guy from 1993 and one from 2001 the nature of that alone isn't something one can answer on a whim
did you miss the part where he said I guess I don't know? I guess.. obviously it means he not basing it on knowing or putting much thought into it , maybe it would be close , maybe it wouldn't it's all speculation in the end , what he do know is statistically the odd favor Dorian , the guy never placed below second in a pro show and beat Ronnie 8 times.
I used that as what? proof? NO sorry in fact I said just because Ronnie said it doesn't make it so , but those quotes from Ronnie end anything Hulkster could type and it utterly killed him to hear Ronnie consistently say he wouldn't beat him
And NO you can't do the same with Dorian because one he said he didn't know , and Ronnie said he did know , BIG difference there.
so keep trying to read more into that Yates quote than whats there in the end he said ' I don't know ' Ronnie on the other hand seems to know
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him.
notice he mentions Dorian has a big physique ( muscular bulk ) and he's hard ( density ) and a big guy with a lot going for him ;)
No you're doing it for Ronnie yet not for Dorian . you're dismissing his extra weight in 95 as all in his gut where was it all? all over Dorian was 257lbs in 1996 did he look exactly the same as he did in 1993? NO why? the was exactly same weight so every muscle must be the same size everywhere not how it works
lets say it's not as good as 93 in 95 still better than Ronnie , so it doesn't matter. and one bicep shorter than the other doesn't ruin his entire balance & proportion either that's really reaching
I never said Dorian balance & proportion isn't better than Ronnie's in 95 either. All I said was since it was negatively affected a little with the whole arms thing, his advantage on this aspect wouldn't be as far as 93 compared to Ronnie. This since you like to use 95 as Dorian's best because he was heavier and harder.
Wouldn't you agree 93 was his best? I think it was.
the debate always was Dorian at his best many feel that is his best stop using the stage as an excuse. you can show me any pics of Ronnie precontest and Dorian still has em in you guessed it all the same criteria , Ronnie's conditioning , balance all go to shit the heavier he becomes
Wayne Demilla " I've said to Ronnie , " What you've got to realize is that in 98-99 you were probably in the best proportion you could be for your frame . Those muscles have gotten bigger. Just cos you're bigger , doesn't make you better . "
I won't disagree with you here, but I was going with Dorian's contest presentations.
No sense going over this? you don't even know what you're going over , you're claiming Ronnie is close on dryness and density and Dorian wins on hardness it's the same thing , you honestly can't comment on whose better conditioned when you don't know what it is.
Why would Dorian be fuller? more muscle and less fat = density , Dorian's conditioning is better anyone who knows what it is wont honestly argue to the contrary
I never claimed Ronnie is close on density, only dryness. Do you even read what I post?
I'm not arguing Dorian's conditioning isn't better. Again do you read what I post?
What I was saying is Ronnie is the only one that matched him on dryness (anyone that mattered anyway, please don't say munzer) and that Dorian's advantage on conditioning wouldn't be as crushing as with his top 90s competition.
Better detail where? in his biceps? sure more separated in his whole arms? ::) and shoulders? ::) you just keep taking broad brush strokes where is the better detail besides the biceps? Dorian has striated triceps , pecs , intercostals , obliques , glutes , Dorian has striated traps I never seen those from Ronnie , and guess who has the better & more detailed x-mass tree? you keep making just gross over-statements , Dorian's advantage in muscularity and all aspects of it are evident in ANY pose and considering all rounds are physique rounds ALL of the criteria which leads me back to my same old point , Ronnie may meet part(s) of criteria better than Dorian he doesn't meet ALL of it better than Dorian
Please stop posting the bolded part as I already know this. I'm not claiming Ronnie beats Dorian because he has better muscularity, all I'm saying is Ronnie has an advantage on muscularity and this is another aspect that would make the contest even closer than you think. In case you haven't noticed I'm not arguing Ronnie beats Dorian anymore, I'm saying it would be close since you like to think it would be an easy victory for Dorian.
As far as who has better detail, separation and tie-ins, I see Ronnie with an advantage here and you see Dorian. We can both post pics to show them with an advantage here, but it wouldn't matter too much since they wouldn't be standing next to each other.
What you can do is look at your pic from the 96 grand prix, the one were both are doing the most muscular. Post it again if you like and see who shows the better detail and separation on most bodyparts, its Ronnie. And this is Ronnie with awful conditioning, now factor him with his 98 conditioning and he would show even better detail and separation.
I don't know why you argue this? Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation aside from his abs and intercostals, obliques.
Where did I say it was more valid? please post that and my opinion is right in line with his , Dorian kills him om conditioning and balance , and you're right I'm assuming he didn't put much thought into it , he never gave a definitive answer it's safe to assume , he said multiple times it was a very hard question to answer .
besides not knowing how conditioning is you're now proving you don't know how contests are judged , judges have a lot of time to judge contests , prejudging can sometimes take 3 hours in some cases they split the contest into two days , and judges , judge what's in front of them not one guy from 1993 and one from 2001 the nature of that alone isn't something one can answer on a whim
did you miss the part where he said I guess I don't know? I guess.. obviously it means he not basing it on knowing or putting much thought into it , maybe it would be close , maybe it wouldn't it's all speculation in the end , what he do know is statistically the odd favor Dorian , the guy never placed below second in a pro show and beat Ronnie 8 times.
I used that as what? proof? NO sorry in fact I said just because Ronnie said it doesn't make it so , but those quotes from Ronnie end anything Hulkster could type and it utterly killed him to hear Ronnie consistently say he wouldn't beat him
And NO you can't do the same with Dorian because one he said he didn't know , and Ronnie said he did know , BIG difference there.
so keep trying to read more into that Yates quote than whats there in the end he said ' I don't know ' Ronnie on the other hand seems to know
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him.
notice he mentions Dorian has a big physique ( muscular bulk ) and he's hard ( density ) and a big guy with a lot going for him ;)
The fact is even if you try to rationalize what Dorian meant or if you say he didn't think it through enough or anything else you bring up, a qualified IFBB judge said it would be a close contest. And he said this while obviously knowing he (Dorian) had the better conditioning and better balance & proportion.
This is the same person that said his victories in the 90s weren't even close without thinking too much either (not that is isn't true). Yet he can't say who would win between him and Ronnie = tough contest to judge = close contest.
Even if ultimately he or any judge would decide Dorian wins, it would still be close, not like you like to say Dorian wins easily.
-
Please reread
if we use that logic then we can say Ronnie is lucky Dorian injured himself because if he didn't Ronnie wouldn't have ever won
because if he didn't I'm not sure if you completely read what I typed.
I understood what you posted so I don't need to read it again. His injury in 97 was his tricep correct? Even if he hadn't injured it, his physique was already in the downfall you know it. Both of his arms were shrinking (look at his FDB from 97 and compare it to 93), even the non injured one. His gut was increasing in size and his waist was wider. His conditioning wasn't as good as before.
-
I never said Dorian balance & proportion isn't better than Ronnie's in 95 either. All I said was since it was negatively affected a little with the whole arms thing, his advantage on this aspect wouldn't be as far as 93 compared to Ronnie. This since you like to use 95 as Dorian's best because he was heavier and harder.
Wouldn't you agree 93 was his best? I think it was.
I won't disagree with you here, but I was going with Dorian's contest presentations.
I never claimed Ronnie is close on density, only dryness. Do you even read what I post?
I'm not arguing Dorian's conditioning isn't better. Again do you read what I post?
What I was saying is Ronnie is the only one that matched him on dryness (anyone that mattered anyway, please don't say munzer) and that Dorian's advantage on conditioning wouldn't be as crushing as with his top 90s competition.
Please stop posting the bolded part as I already know this. I'm not claiming Ronnie beats Dorian because he has better muscularity, all I'm saying is Ronnie has an advantage on muscularity and this is another aspect that would make the contest even closer than you think. In case you haven't noticed I'm not arguing Ronnie beats Dorian anymore, I'm saying it would be close since you like to think it would be an easy victory for Dorian.
As far as who has better detail, separation and tie-ins, I see Ronnie with an advantage here and you see Dorian. We can both post pics to show them with an advantage here, but it wouldn't matter too much since they wouldn't be standing next to each other.
What you can do is look at your pic from the 96 grand prix, the one were both are doing the most muscular. Post it again if you like and see who shows the better detail and separation on most bodyparts, its Ronnie. And this is Ronnie with awful conditioning, now factor him with his 98 conditioning and he would show even better detail and separation.
I don't know why you argue this? Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation aside from his abs and intercostals, obliques.
The fact is even if you try to rationalize what Dorian meant or if you say he didn't think it through enough or anything else you bring up, a qualified IFBB judge said it would be a close contest. And he said this while obviously knowing he (Dorian) had the better conditioning and better balance & proportion.
This is the same person that said his victories in the 90s weren't even close without thinking too much either (not that is isn't true). Yet he can't say who would win between him and Ronnie = tough contest to judge = close contest.
Even if ultimately he or any judge would decide Dorian wins, it would still be close, not like you like to say Dorian wins easily.
I never said Dorian balance & proportion isn't better than Ronnie's in 95 either. All I said was since it was negatively affected a little with the whole arms thing, his advantage on this aspect wouldn't be as far as 93 compared to Ronnie. This since you like to use 95 as Dorian's best because he was heavier and harder.
Wouldn't you agree 93 was his best? I think it was.
you keep trying to make it close when it reality it's not. and having one bicep shorter than the other does not negate the rest of it , Ronnie suddenly doesn't come closer to Dorian in this area because of his torn bicep , I like to use 1993 pre-contest which many agree is his best but used 1995 for reference
I won't disagree with you here, but I was going with Dorian's contest presentations.
You couldn't disagree if you wanted too. the debate was always who at their best and I still feel Dorian 1993/1995 would beat Ronnie but I do think precontest B&W is his best , if there were more of Dorian precontest 1995 at 283lbs I might have changed my mind but I only see the one pics
I never claimed Ronnie is close on density, only dryness. Do you even read what I post?
I'm not arguing Dorian's conditioning isn't better. Again do you read what I post?
What I was saying is Ronnie is the only one that matched him on dryness (anyone that mattered anyway, please don't say munzer) and that Dorian's advantage on conditioning wouldn't be as crushing as with his top 90s competition.
What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.
your quote ^^^ and yes I read what you posted. you never claimed he was close on density? he matches Dorian in dryness and hardness hardness is DENSITY and not only are you saying now Dorian is better conditioned which contradicts your claim of Ronnie ' matching ' him but denying you ever claimed it
Ronnie according to Dorian and Peter McGough didn't match him in dryness or density , it's not close and you're desperately trying to make it so.
Please stop posting the bolded part as I already know this. I'm not claiming Ronnie beats Dorian because he has better muscularity, all I'm saying is Ronnie has an advantage on muscularity and this is another aspect that would make the contest even closer than you think. In case you haven't noticed I'm not arguing Ronnie beats Dorian anymore, I'm saying it would be close since you like to think it would be an easy victory for Dorian.
1998 vs Dorian easy , win for Dorian no questions asked no if ands or buts about it. 2001 maybe gets closer to Dorian 1993/1995 this may be the closest he gets although he's similar in size and conditioning than 1998 but people absolutely rave about 2001 so it warrants tougher competition , I think it's like Dorian 1993 and 1995 similar but people just rave about the latter
As far as who has better detail, separation and tie-ins, I see Ronnie with an advantage here and you see Dorian. We can both post pics to show them with an advantage here, but it wouldn't matter too much since they wouldn't be standing next to each other.
What you can do is look at your pic from the 96 grand prix, the one were both are doing the most muscular. Post it again if you like and see who shows the better detail and separation on most bodyparts, its Ronnie. And this is Ronnie with awful conditioning, now factor him with his 98 conditioning and he would show even better detail and separation.
I don't know why you argue this? Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation aside from his abs and intercostals, obliques.
Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation? in what pics & videos?
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).
Dorian Yates interview bodybuilding.com 2008
Everyone who sees my physique in person always comments on how much better I look in person than in pictures.
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Bob Chick GetBig 10 - 05 - 2007
THis is why pictures will never replace actually being there, in person and close to the stage....
Mr Gethin ( contest photographer ) GetBig Steptember 10 , 2007
Beat Ronnie fare and square on the european tour...Huh? Were you there? Did you know anyone who was there, or are you speculating via pics? I'm a contest photog and can tell you that pics dont always give a true depiction.
Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates
" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.
MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .
Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007
The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...
you have to bear this in mind when you type things like that.
The fact is even if you try to rationalize what Dorian meant or if you say he didn't think it through enough or anything else you bring up, a qualified IFBB judge said it would be a close contest. And he said this while obviously knowing he (Dorian) had the better conditioning and better balance & proportion.
again he said a lot of things in the end he said ' I don't know ' you're not satisfied with that answer
This is the same person that said his victories in the 90s weren't even close without thinking too much either (not that is isn't true). Yet he can't say who would win between him and Ronnie = tough contest to judge = close contest.
Even if ultimately he or any judge would decide Dorian wins, it would still be close, not like you like to say Dorian wins easily.
Again where are you getting this info? where did he say his victories in the 90s weren't close? maybe it would be close who knows? maybe it would either way Dorian wins , you want it to be close I'll hand you that on a silver platter , it's close Dorian still wins a ' close ' contest even though he crushes him on density , dryness , balance , proportion , and posing but it's a close ;D
-
I understood what you posted so I don't need to read it again. His injury in 97 was his tricep correct? Even if he hadn't injured it, his physique was already in the downfall you know it. Both of his arms were shrinking (look at his FDB from 97 and compare it to 93), even the non injured one. His gut was increasing in size and his waist was wider. His conditioning wasn't as good as before.
His conditioning in 1997 at 270lbs is great , maybe not 100% but pretty close anyway , I'm saying using that logic if Dorian NEVER became injured in 1994 or 1997 , he never tore ANY muscles then we can say Ronnie would have never won his Olympias
-
Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal. Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.
-
Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal. Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.
absolutely
-
Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal. Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.
Yeah it was @ 270lbs his Conditioning was Very good and it needed to be because if Yates conditioning was OFF.... IMO he would of Lost the 1997 MR O, His Conditioning was his Advantage he had over Genetically Superior BBers like Flex etc
-
Yeah it was @ 270lbs his Conditioning was Very good and it needed to be because if Yates conditioning was OFF.... IMO he would of Lost the 1997 MR O, His Conditioning was his Advantage he had over Genetically Superior BBers like Flex etc
I agree -- Dorian didn't have the small joints, tie-ins, or muscle separation of Flex, Ronnie, etc. He did, however, have an advantage in thickness, conditioning, and density. Also, his presentation was always top notch Fortunately for Dorian fans, he always seemed to come in dialed compared to everyone esle. Perhaps it was the whiskey he drank the night before :)
-
you keep trying to make it close when it reality it's not. and having one bicep shorter than the other does not negate the rest of it , Ronnie suddenly doesn't come closer to Dorian in this area because of his torn bicep , I like to use 1993 pre-contest which many agree is his best but used 1995 for reference
You couldn't disagree if you wanted too. the debate was always who at their best and I still feel Dorian 1993/1995 would beat Ronnie but I do think precontest B&W is his best , if there were more of Dorian precontest 1995 at 283lbs I might have changed my mind but I only see the one pics
What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.
your quote ^^^ and yes I read what you posted. you never claimed he was close on density? he matches Dorian in dryness and hardness hardness is DENSITY and not only are you saying now Dorian is better conditioned which contradicts your claim of Ronnie ' matching ' him but denying you ever claimed it
Ronnie according to Dorian and Peter McGough didn't match him in dryness or density , it's not close and you're desperately trying to make it so.
1998 vs Dorian easy , win for Dorian no questions asked no if ands or buts about it. 2001 maybe gets closer to Dorian 1993/1995 this may be the closest he gets although he's similar in size and conditioning than 1998 but people absolutely rave about 2001 so it warrants tougher competition , I think it's like Dorian 1993 and 1995 similar but people just rave about the latter
Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation? in what pics & videos?
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).
Dorian Yates interview bodybuilding.com 2008
Everyone who sees my physique in person always comments on how much better I look in person than in pictures.
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Bob Chick GetBig 10 - 05 - 2007
THis is why pictures will never replace actually being there, in person and close to the stage....
Mr Gethin ( contest photographer ) GetBig Steptember 10 , 2007
Beat Ronnie fare and square on the european tour...Huh? Were you there? Did you know anyone who was there, or are you speculating via pics? I'm a contest photog and can tell you that pics dont always give a true depiction.
Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates
" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.
MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .
Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007
The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...
you have to bear this in mind when you type things like that.
again he said a lot of things in the end he said ' I don't know ' you're not satisfied with that answer
Again where are you getting this info? where did he say his victories in the 90s weren't close? maybe it would be close who knows? maybe it would either way Dorian wins , you want it to be close I'll hand you that on a silver platter , it's close Dorian still wins a ' close ' contest even though he crushes him on density , dryness , balance , proportion , and posing but it's a close ;D
you keep trying to make it close when it reality it's not. and having one bicep shorter than the other does not negate the rest of it , Ronnie suddenly doesn't come closer to Dorian in this area because of his torn bicep , I like to use 1993 pre-contest which many agree is his best but used 1995 for reference
You couldn't disagree if you wanted too. the debate was always who at their best and I still feel Dorian 1993/1995 would beat Ronnie but I do think precontest B&W is his best , if there were more of Dorian precontest 1995 at 283lbs I might have changed my mind but I only see the one pics
Those b&w shots of Dorian in 93 would beat any bodybuilder in my opinion too.
I think 1993/1995 Dorian vs a 98/01 Ronnie would be close. We can agree to disagree.
I think his whole arms looked a bit small for his torso in some poses in 95, not just one bicep shorter.
What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.
your quote ^^^ and yes I read what you posted. you never claimed he was close on density? he matches Dorian in dryness and hardness hardness is DENSITY and not only are you saying now Dorian is better conditioned which contradicts your claim of Ronnie ' matching ' him but denying you ever claimed it
Ronnie according to Dorian and Peter McGough didn't match him in dryness or density , it's not close and you're desperately trying to make it so.
That's because I didn't know hardness is density. In case you missed it I also posted Dorian had better density in the same quote I said Ronnie matched him in hardness, that was because like I said I didn't know hardness = density.
It doesn't contradict it at all, I said Dorian has better conditioning, but Ronnie matches him on dryness only (which is one aspect of conditioning), of course Dorian still has the advantage on this aspect of the criteria.
You also posted that Ronnie could match Dorian in dryness and now saying its not possible. ???
Anyway, after all I've learned about conditioning here, in my opinion Dorian has the advantage, but it wouldn't be as crushing as with his 90s competition since Ronnie was incredibly dry in 98.
1998 vs Dorian easy , win for Dorian no questions asked no if ands or buts about it. 2001 maybe gets closer to Dorian 1993/1995 this may be the closest he gets although he's similar in size and conditioning than 1998 but people absolutely rave about 2001 so it warrants tougher competition , I think it's like Dorian 1993 and 1995 similar but people just rave about the latter
We can disagree on Dorian winning easy.
Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation? in what pics & videos?
From your quotes then it is a possibility that Dorian indeed was a different scene when viewed live and in person. I wouldn't know because I never saw him like that, so I can give it to you that it changes this.
Still I think Ronnie in good condition displayed better separation and detail from the front.
again he said a lot of things in the end he said ' I don't know ' you're not satisfied with that answer
Again where are you getting this info? where did he say his victories in the 90s weren't close? maybe it would be close who knows? maybe it would either way Dorian wins , you want it to be close I'll hand you that on a silver platter , it's close Dorian still wins a ' close ' contest even though he crushes him on density , dryness , balance , proportion , and posing but it's a close ;D
Sure for you Dorian would win 'easily' and 'crushing' Ronnie. In my opinion maybe he would win, but it would be a close contest.
Let's just say an IFBB judge also implied it would be a close contest and was actually giving it to Ronnie first. :)
-
His conditioning in 1997 at 270lbs is great , maybe not 100% but pretty close anyway , I'm saying using that logic if Dorian NEVER became injured in 1994 or 1997 , he never tore ANY muscles then we can say Ronnie would have never won his Olympias
If Dorian had never injured himself then maybe Ronnie would have never won his O? Maybe, but maybe he would've been better too and won them anyway. ;D
Since we are going with 'what ifs' then Dorian wouldn't have won all of his O either.
-
Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal. Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.
Much better than Nasser for sure.
-
Those b&w shots of Dorian in 93 would beat any bodybuilder in my opinion too.
I think 1993/1995 Dorian vs a 98/01 Ronnie would be close. We can agree to disagree.
I think his whole arms looked a bit small for his torso in some poses in 95, not just one bicep shorter.
That's because I didn't know hardness is density. In case you missed it I also posted Dorian had better density in the same quote I said Ronnie matched him in hardness, that was because like I said I didn't know hardness = density.
It doesn't contradict it at all, I said Dorian has better conditioning, but Ronnie matches him on dryness only (which is one aspect of conditioning), of course Dorian still has the advantage on this aspect of the criteria.
You also posted that Ronnie could match Dorian in dryness and now saying its not possible. ???
Anyway, after all I've learned about conditioning here, in my opinion Dorian has the advantage, but it wouldn't be as crushing as with his 90s competition since Ronnie was incredibly dry in 98.
We can disagree on Dorian winning easy.
From your quotes then it is a possibility that Dorian indeed was a different scene when viewed live and in person. I wouldn't know because I never saw him like that, so I can give it to you that it changes this.
Still I think Ronnie in good condition displayed better separation and detail from the front.
Sure for you Dorian would win 'easily' and 'crushing' Ronnie. In my opinion maybe he would win, but it would be a close contest.
Let's just say an IFBB judge also implied it would be a close contest and was actually giving it to Ronnie first. :)
Those b&w shots of Dorian in 93 would beat any bodybuilder in my opinion too.
ok so this much we agree on.
I think 1993/1995 Dorian vs a 98/01 Ronnie would be close. We can agree to disagree.
98 wouldn't be close maybe 01
I think his whole arms looked a bit small for his torso in some poses in 95, not just one bicep shorter.
ok
That's because I didn't know hardness is density. In case you missed it I also posted Dorian had better density in the same quote I said Ronnie matched him in hardness, that was because like I said I didn't know hardness = density.
I know what you typed and you need to brush up more on what you're commenting on ( no offense )
It doesn't contradict it at all, I said Dorian has better conditioning, but Ronnie matches him on dryness only (which is one aspect of conditioning), of course Dorian still has the advantage on this aspect of the criteria.
Ronnie doesn't match him on dryness either
You also posted that Ronnie could match Dorian in dryness and now saying its not possible. ???
that was playing devil's advocate , for the sake of argument. McGough said Ronnie was never as hard or as dry as Dorian I tend to agree with him
Anyway, after all I've learned about conditioning here, in my opinion Dorian has the advantage, but it wouldn't be as crushing as with his 90s competition since Ronnie was incredibly dry in 98.
Dryness isn't the pinnacle of conditioning , density combined with dryness is so the advantage from my point of view is crushing
We can disagree on Dorian winning easy.
that goes without saying
From your quotes then it is a possibility that Dorian indeed was a different scene when viewed live and in person. I wouldn't know because I never saw him like that, so I can give it to you that it changes this.
neither have I which is why I tend to go with eye witness accounts
Still I think Ronnie in good condition displayed better separation and detail from the front.
ok
Sure for you Dorian would win 'easily' and 'crushing' Ronnie. In my opinion maybe he would win, but it would be a close contest.
ok Dorian 1993 precontest would win easily
Let's just say an IFBB judge also implied it would be a close contest and was actually giving it to Ronnie first. :)
implied? you keep needing this to be close and are trying all angles to contradict what he said in the end. " I don't know " ;)
If Dorian had never injured himself then maybe Ronnie would have never won his O? Maybe, but maybe he would've been better too and won them anyway. ;D
Since we are going with 'what ifs' then Dorian wouldn't have won all of his O either.
you started that train of thought , I was only using it against you
-
Out of interest did you ever see Dorian on stage or are these "he looked much better in person" comments just what you've heard from others?
Never seen him but that's the general consensus from most who have.
-
most people who have seen both onstage live and in person say Ronnie was world's better.
eg:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=252142.0
Of course directly.
And I have seen him competing directly 1994 and 1996.
And I say
Dorian is not in the league of Ronnie.
Best Ronnie was from the outer space.
No competition.
comments like this hit close to home and drive dumb nuthuggers crazy. they hate it when people verify what the pics and vids already show. perhaps they will say these comments are faked along with the 99 vids? LOL ::)
-
most people who have seen both onstage live and in person say Ronnie was world's better.
eg:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=252142.0
comments like this hit close to home and drive dumb nuthuggers crazy. they hate it when people verify what the pics and vids already show. perhaps they will say these comments are faked along with the 99 vids? LOL ::)
Thanks for playing dummy ;D
Flex Magazine Jan 1999
Ernie Taylor
" When I saw Ronnie Coleman backstage before the prejudging , it was looking at ' three-D ' again. He looked fantastic. But I think if Dorian ( Yates ) were competing he would have won the show . "
Special Ed : Ronnie of Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?
Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard-
Lee Priest
HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?
I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.
the quotes from Ronnie will always haunt you ;) ;D
-
Comments out of courtesy/nostalgia. ;)
out of fear is more like it , Dorian dominated in a way Ronnie never could there was a very good reason why Ronnie believed Dorian would beat him
1998 Ronnie's best Olympia showing he just barely beat Flex by the skin of his teeth , 3 points and Dorian obliterated Flex who was in his prime year in 1993 a contest that Dorian was so far ahead in he didn't even need to be included in the muscularity round , and Ronnie's supposed to beat Dorian? lol people can keep telling themselves that
-
out of fear is more like it , Dorian dominated in a way Ronnie never could there was a very good reason why Ronnie believed Dorian would beat him
1998 Ronnie's best Olympia showing he just barely beat Flex by the skin of his teeth , 3 points and Dorian obliterated Flex who was in his prime year in 1993 a contest that Dorian was so far ahead in he didn't even need to be included in the muscularity round , and Ronnie's supposed to beat Dorian? lol people can keep telling themselves that
But let's not forgot that Levrone, Wheeler, Ray, Cormier, Nasser etc. were all way better than the pasty white ex racist Brit. Levrone should've won in 92, Wheeler in 93, Ray in 94, Levrone in 95, Ray in 96 and Nasser in 97. Yates didn't deserve to win a single Olympia ::)