Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: tinymarvin on August 25, 2012, 12:20:38 AM
-
Finaly Mr. O has spoken on these important subjects.
-
Ha cool vid bro, that was great.
He said Ronnie and Dorian did what no others have done, at their best on stage he would give the nod to Ronnie.
Then he stated he will stick to one show a year and there is no point doing a lesser show (as in Arnold Classic), his position of focusing on 1 show at time makes more sense and the Arnold Champ usually comes to the Olympia to Challenge him anyway.
Then he said he is not the type to look huge in clothes. One reason is every pound of muscle he puts on has to serve a purpose, not just pack on muscle all over the place without detail.
Then he talked about all the smack talk on the forums and said he is fine with people saying bad things if they are debating about different bodybuilders and such but people go to far with personal attacks for no reasons.
Then was asked about gh15 and said he does not know him, but says it is all good. He then said he doesn't mind people doubting him but thinks it's wrong is when he proves them wrong and they don't man up, not sure if he was referring to gh15 or not.
Then he says people ask if he is better then Ronnie and he said "NO I AM NOT BETTER THEN RONNIE``
Half way through the video the guy in the back mentions getbig and says gh15 is a nobody ;D
Phil is cool, very humble guy.
-
Nice to see Phil so candid..lol @ all the getbig references, I agree with everything said.
-
At 2:00 he start talking about Ronnie and Dorian. At around 2:42 he says that at their respective bests, Ronnie wins all day long.
-
Ronnie Coleman unbeatable? Is he sure? LOL
Here's a little reminder of something that happened in 2002 at the GNC Show of Strength:
-
Ronnie Coleman unbeatable? Is he sure? LOL
Here's a little reminder of something that happened in 2002 at the GNC Show of Strength:
;D Yip ;D
-
Finaly Mr. O has spoken on these important subjects.
He continues to speak about this ' myth ' that Ronnie was ' unbeatable ' it's simply not true. Ronnie was very beatable and beaten multiple times. Dorian never was
1998 Ronnie was almost beat when he was at his best Olympia that contest was separated by just 3 points to this day still one of the closest Mr Olympias ever
2001 he was beaten in the entire prejudging although he squeaked out another close call
2002 he was beaten in the posing rounds in the night show by Kevin , again another close call
2002 be was soundly beaten by Gunther who outclassed him
2006 he was beaten soundly by Jay
2007 he dropped to 4th place
It's a myth to say Ronnie is unbeatable
Dorian on the other hand NEVER lost a round and finished most of his Olympias with straight firsts.
Ronnie is the king when it comes to bodybuilding , he tied Haney for most Olympia titles and he has the most pro titles of any competitor this alone makes him the GOAT . But that has nothing to do with if he could beat Dorian at his best.
-
Quote it right dipshits. He said Ronnie at his best was unbeatable.
-
Ronnie Coleman unbeatable? Is he sure? LOL
Here's a little reminder of something that happened in 2002 at the GNC Show of Strength:
::)
dumbass, that show was done on ronnie's home court, and he came in half-ass, thinking it was his show, no matter what. i called this show the day before. he should have stayed the fuck out of louisiana. the red necks were going to do him in for this german white boy. bigger robbery than cutler winning in 2006. it's amazing how branch can win shows with multiple tears and diseased looking little body, but ronnie can't defend his title vs vastly inferior white boys.
-
Beaten by Lee Haney and Momo Benaziza, oh and a light heavy named Chris Oskys for the overall British in 86 and also only managed 7th in the World Games in 85
If you want to play that game then Coleman lost to';
Thierry Pastel
Milos Sarcev
Aaron Baker
Alq Gurley
Sonny Schmidt
Andreas Munzer
Charles Clairmonte
Nassar El Sonbaty
Chris Cormier
Chris Cormier
Paul Dillett
Kevine Levrone
Shawn Ray
Dorian Yates
Flex Wheeler
Mike Francois
Vince Taylor
Jean-Pierre Fux
Lee Priest
David Dearth
Jim Quinn
Ray McNeil
Mauro Sarni
Pavel Jablonicky
Paul Dillett
Gunter Schlierkamp
Jay Cutler
Victor Martinez
Dexter Jackson
^^^ as a pro only
Paul Demayo
Edgar Fletcher
Jerry Rodgers
I know I missed a few ;)
-
::)
dumbass, that show was done on ronnie's home court, and he came in half-ass, thinking it was his show, no matter what. i called this show the day before. he should have stayed the fuck out of louisiana. the red necks were going to do him in for this german white boy. &guy robbery than cutler winning in 2006. it's amazing how branch can win shows with multiple tears and diseased looking little body, but ronnie can't defend his title vs vastly inferior white boys.
Both Shows where scored correctly brother, look at those pics, Gunter is slaughtering Coleman
-
playing games?
I dont recall writing anything about Coleman not being beaten, it was just a counter post to the statement that Dorian wasn't.
How much time did you waste formulating that list? ::)
a lot ;D
But now I re-countered your small list despite your intentions, someone might get the wrong impression :D
-
a lot ;D
I think you were just a little bit to eager to show off your men in thong pageant skills there ;)
-
If you want to play that game then Coleman lost to';
Thierry Pastel
Milos Sarcev
Aaron Baker
Alq Gurley
Sonny Schmidt
Andreas Munzer
Charles Clairmonte
Nassar El Sonbaty
Chris Cormier
Chris Cormier
Paul Dillett
Kevine Levrone
Shawn Ray
Dorian Yates
Flex Wheeler
Mike Francois
Vince Taylor
Jean-Pierre Fux
Lee Priest
David Dearth
Jim Quinn
Ray McNeil
Mauro Sarni
Pavel Jablonicky
Paul Dillett
Gunter Schlierkamp
Jay Cutler
Victor Martinez
Dexter Jackson
^^^ as a pro only
Paul Demayo
Edgar Fletcher
Jerry Rodgers
I know I missed a few ;)
What's the point?
Ronnie's time-line is full-time career - bbing. Yates is thug beating up African immigrants - bbing. Phil is college - gym front - bbing. Haney is no job - bbing. In other words, Ronnie shouldn't have happen. Everyone can thank Shawn Ray's big ass mouth.
-
Beaten by Lee Haney and Momo Benaziza, oh and a light heavy named Chris Oskys for the overall British in 86 and also only managed 7th in the World Games in 85
I should have said once he became Mr Olympia
and Yates beat Haney in the muscularity round
-
What's the point?
Ronnie's time-line is full-time career - bbing. Yates is thug beating up African immigrants - bbing. Phil is college - gym front - bbing. Haney is no job - bbing. In other words, Ronnie shouldn't have happen. Everyone can thank Shawn Ray's big ass mouth.
The point was to counter the guys list on who beat Dorian but sense he clarified the reason he wrote that then there is no point I guess
I think you were just a little bit to eager to show off your men in thong pageant skills there ;)
Easy there bro, if it`s a beef you are looking for, I`m in,..... ;D
No offence but I hate those gay fucken jokes, they are old and stupid and shmoes use them to filter out the fags
-
Both Shows where scored correctly brother, look at those pics, Gunter is slaughtering Coleman
That's the thing with Coleman fanboys they are so deluded they think that when he is being soundly beaten he is winning , Hulkster the moron once claimed Ronnie ' dominated ' the 2001 Olympia , by losing the entire prejudging he;s dominating :-\
Ronnie at his best Olympia was almost beat by Flex who never came close to Dorian , yet Ronnie is supposed to beat him? ::)
-
That's the thing with Coleman fanboys they are so deluded they think that when he is being soundly beaten he is winning , Hulkster the moron once claimed Ronnie ' dominated ' the 2001 Olympia , by losing the entire prejudging he;s dominating :-\
Ronnie at his best Olympia was almost beat by Flex who never came close to Dorian , yet Ronnie is supposed to beat him? ::)
This has been my completely logical argument this whole time.
1. Let`s take the Olympia judging panel as a standard measurement
2. let`s create a point system in accordance to the standard measurements of the Olympia judging panel
3. Let Ronnie`s 98 represent a 10 on the point system.
4. according to the standard olympia judging panel Flex would then get a 9 cause it was extremely close in 98.
5. According to the Olympia judging panel, they all agree (yes every single judge) that the 93 version of Flex was way better then his 98 version
6. So if he gets a 9 in 98 by the Olympia judging panel according to the standard measurement then what does he get in 93, a 10 at least, logical
7.Now if he gets a 10 according to the Olympia judging panel then what does Yates get considering it wasn`t even close, Yates gets at least a 12 according to the Olympia judges.
8. So my point is according to the Olympia judges 93 Yates beats 98 Coleman, not even close.
-
This has been my completely logical argument this whole time.
1. Let`s take the Olympia judging panel as a standard measurement
2. let`s create a point system in accordance to the standard measurements of the Olympia judging panel
3. Let Ronnie`s 98 represent a 10 on the point system.
4. according to the standard olympia judging panel Flex would then get a 9 cause it was extremely close in 98.
5. According to the Olympia judging panel, they all agree (yes every single judge) that the 93 version of Flex was way better then his 98 version
6. So if he gets a 9 in 98 by the Olympia judging panel according to the standard measurement then what does he get in 93, a 10 at least, logical
7.Now if he gets a 10 according to the Olympia judging panel then what does Yates get considering it wasn`t even close, Yates gets at least a 12 according to the Olympia judges.
8. So my point is according to the Olympia judges 93 Yates beats 98 Coleman, not even close.
I agree Ronnie 1998 at what he said was his best on multiple occasions and what many consider his best Olympia appearance just simply wouldn't pose a threat he just wouldn't
Flex was OFF in 1998 off from his Arnold Classic appearance that year and way off from 1993 when he was tearing up the pro scene and it was close. These idiots claim Ronnie was overlooked in the first round which explains the discrepancy in the score , NOT accurate he was call-out and compared NINE times in the first round , he just wasn't in the first call-out and why would he be?
1993 Dorian was so far and above everyone else they didn't even need to include him in the muscularity round , like Samir Bannout said Dorian was first , second and third. After the contest Flex said Dorian is ' unbeatable '
Fast forward to 1998 and Ronnie at his career best Olympia just barely beats a sub-par Flex by just 3 points in one of the closest contests ever and he's supposed to beat Dorian 1993? it just wouldn't happen and neither would 1999 because all he did was bigger a tad bigger and lost that razor sharp conditioning he had the year before
-
so he said coleman was better...
good man....
-
Phils a cool dude.
Id love to train in the same gym as him.
It seems to me like he was a fan of gh15 untill gh15 dissed Phil after he won the olympia and Phils feelings are really hurt about that.
-
"I'd say Ronnie Coleman all day, if they competed at their prime it would be done"
Phillip heath - Mr Olympia
-
In regards to Ronnie
Phil Heath states "we are not gonna see another guy like that for a long time"
Phillip Heath Mr Olympia
...
Have we heard anyone say that about Dorian .... ?
Peak condition not in the same league as Coleman I would t even compare them Ronnie is just so much fucking better...
-
This has been my completely logical argument this whole time.
1. Let`s take the Olympia judging panel as a standard measurement
2. let`s create a point system in accordance to the standard measurements of the Olympia judging panel
3. Let Ronnie`s 98 represent a 10 on the point system.
4. according to the standard olympia judging panel Flex would then get a 9 cause it was extremely close in 98.
5. According to the Olympia judging panel, they all agree (yes every single judge) that the 93 version of Flex was way better then his 98 version
6. So if he gets a 9 in 98 by the Olympia judging panel according to the standard measurement then what does he get in 93, a 10 at least, logical
7.Now if he gets a 10 according to the Olympia judging panel then what does Yates get considering it wasn`t even close, Yates gets at least a 12 according to the Olympia judges.
8. So my point is according to the Olympia judges 93 Yates beats 98 Coleman, not even close.
93 Yates Vs Coleman 98 would be the one no doubt about it, the Difference was in 1993 Yates COMPLETELY Dominated the Competition in 1998 with Coleman it was a CLOSE thing ether way that type of Speculative Competition would be the one the Best Vs the Best
-
In regards to Ronnie
Phil Heath states "we are not gonna see another guy like that for a long time"
Phillip Heath Mr Olympia
...
Have we heard anyone say that about Dorian .... ?
Peak condition not in the same league as Coleman I would t even compare them Ronnie is just so much fucking better...
Have we seen another guy like Dorian? it's been a long time.
And I love how everyone wants to put so much stock in what Phil says , who cares what Phil says? it's what Ronnie said that is the kicker 8) ;)
Special Ed : Ronnie of Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?
Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat
-
You can pose hypotheticals all day, like Genghis Khan versus Hitler. Absolutely pointless.
-
phil looks small in that video
-
What's the point?
Ronnie's time-line is full-time career - bbing. Yates is thug beating up African immigrants - bbing. Phil is college - gym front - bbing. Haney is no job - bbing. In other words, Ronnie shouldn't have happen. Everyone can thank Shawn Ray's big ass mouth.
Learn how to speak English, shit-for-brains.
-
Phil didn't even say it would be close
He said
"man it would be all over"
Phil Heath mr o
Anyone with unbiased eyes can see that
Dorian was just a good ... Fux
With a phenomenal back
Ugly physique
-
Phil didn't even say it would be close
He said
"man it would be all over"
Phil Heath mr o
Anyone with unbiased eyes can see that
Dorian was just a good ... Fux
With a phenomenal back
Ugly physique
What did Ronnie say? ;)
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so.
He doesn't think so , he KNOWS so ;D
Dorian's physique not pretty enough for you? who cares? not how contests are won.
And an ' ugly physique ' LMFAO
-
What did Ronnie say? ;)
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so.
He doesn't think so , he KNOWS so ;D
Dorian's physique not pretty enough for you? who cares? not how contests are won.
And an ' ugly physique ' LMFAO
Ask Ronnie now. Btw, ill ask him at the O and post the video here. Will you shut up then?
-
Ask Ronnie now. Btw, ill ask him at the O and post the video here. Will you shut up then?
That wouldn't change what he said already would it? and it's funny because people want to put stock in what Heath says but dismiss what Ronnie said multiple times
Ronnie feared Dorian for good reason and based is competitive record he would have a fuck of time beating Dorian ;D
-
That wouldn't change what he said already would it? and it's funny because people want to put stock in what Heath says but dismiss what Ronnie said multiple times
Ronnie feared Dorian for good reason and based is competitive record he would have a fuck of time beating Dorian ;D
Of course it makes a difference cause I know Ronnie said that early in his Olympia run. His physique changed and so did hos opinion when he felt he surpassed Dorian. Phils could opinion could change but it wont matter. His narrowness kills it. I still like Phil though...fatal flaw from being the best Mr. O
-
I wonder who the anti-getbig athlete in the back seat is :o
-
Of course it makes a difference cause I know Ronnie said that early in his Olympia run. His physique changed and so did hos opinion when he felt he surpassed Dorian. Phils could opinion could change but it wont matter. His narrowness kills it. I still like Phil though...fatal flaw from being the best Mr. O
His physique changed for the worse which is why he constantly said 1998 Olympia was his best , you think AT HIS BEST he would beat Dorian? ain't happening
-
not this shit again
ronnie moved the sport on i asked dorian and he said ronnie was in a diferent class
dorian is always honest about shit
-
not this shit again
ronnie moved the sport on i asked dorian and he said ronnie was in a diferent class
dorian is always honest about shit
Sure you did ::)
-
Sure you did ::)
ok you got me i made up a story about meeting someone no one outside of bb ever heard of
nice work columbo ::)
-
His physique changed for the worse which is why he constantly said 1998 Olympia was his best , you think AT HIS BEST he would beat Dorian? ain't happening
After Arnold 01, it changed for the worse.
Yes, while I like both physiques, 98 Ronnie or 01 AC Ronnie would beat any version of yates. Yes, Yates is more "grainy". But Ronnie has everything else except calves and triceps. And Dorian was a much better poser. I still count. That for something. Ronnie wins but not by alot. Haney is better than both...haha
-
bodybuilders use doping
-
ok you got me i made up a story about meeting someone no one outside of bb ever heard of
nice work columbo ::)
Yeah and after all these ' debates ' and all this time you just decided to share this with us now ::) you're full of shit
-
After Arnold 01, it changed for the worse.
Yes, while I like both physiques, 98 Ronnie or 01 AC Ronnie would beat any version of yates. Yes, Yates is more "grainy". But Ronnie has everything else except calves and triceps. And Dorian was a much better poser. I still count. That for something. Ronnie wins but not by alot. Haney is better than both...haha
Ronnie 98 and 01 are basically the same he weighed just under 250 at both and in great condition
Ronnie 98 just barely beat Flex and he's supposed to beat Dorian? not happening
-
After Arnold 01, it changed for the worse.
Yes, while I like both physiques, 98 Ronnie or 01 AC Ronnie would beat any version of yates. Yes, Yates is more "grainy". But Ronnie has everything else except calves and triceps. And Dorian was a much better poser. I still count. That for something. Ronnie wins but not by alot. Haney is better than both...haha
better tricep IN THE SIDE TRICEP pose....
evvery other pose coleman has super tris in....
just standing there or in any other pose.. colemans tris are among the best for hang and fullness...... dorian tris only look good when its pressed up against his lats....(side tri)
.... fux with a great back essentially
-
Wiggs just likes Haney more because he's black.
-
wiggs loves white women
-
wiggs loves white women
Don't we all? ;D
-
Ronnie 98 and 01 are basically the same he weighed just under 250 at both and in great condition
Ronnie 98 just barely beat Flex and he's supposed to beat Dorian? not happening
I noticed you do that alot and it doesnt work that way. Consider this, Ronnie going into the show his best placing till then was 6th or 7th. He came out of nowhere, (yes i know he won the NOC but was still not considered a threat.
He beat Flex who back then was the logical next Mr. O and Flex had just looked his best at the AC that year AND, back then when his name held alot more weight, it was Flex fucking Wheeler.
For Ronnie to do what he did and win period says a whole fucking lot. How many other guys. Come from nowhere to win the O? So yes, even though he didnt blow him out, just for him to wim against the Flex Wheeler Machine period is a remarkable feat which in my mind should hold much more weight than you give it.
-
I think if we are talking about best genetics then neither Ronnie or Dorian deserve a mention. HAney was like Cedric but with less arms and legs, average aesthetics.
Reeves, Nubret are two that stand out amongst others, Levrone had a far better physique than Ronnie or Dorian FFS.
Beyeke has an exceptional physique and surpasses them both already.
-
I noticed you do that alot and it doesnt work that way. Consider this, Ronnie going into the show his best placing till then was 6th or 7th. He came out of nowhere, (yes i know he won the NOC but was still not considered a threat.
He beat Flex who back then was the logical next Mr. O and Flex had just looked his best at the AC that year AND, back then when his name held alot more weight, it was Flex fucking Wheeler.
For Ronnie to do what he did and win period says a whole fucking lot. How many other guys. Come from nowhere to win the O? So yes, even though he didnt blow him out, just for him to wim against the Flex Wheeler Machine period is a remarkable feat which in my mind should hold much more weight than you give it.
None of that changes the fact it was a close contest and it wasn't the first time Ronnie beat Flex either. I get your point it was Flex's contest to win
-
Ask Ronnie now. Btw, ill ask him at the O and post the video here. Will you shut up then?
ronnie has also said he is the greatest of all time mannnny times ... ND will not acknowledge that one though....
we have a video of a mr o.... stating it wouldnt even be close ... coleman would blow dorian away...
where are all the supposed quotes ON VIDEO or scans ND keeps coming out with
-
"I'd say Ronnie Coleman all day, if they competed at their prime it would be done"
Phillip heath - Mr Olympia
That's what I heard ^^^^^^^^^^^^.
Mark down another Mr. Olympia in favor of Ronnie over Dorian.
-
Beyekes skin is too thick and he doesnt come in condition. He receives no further consideration.
Haney is the best. 8x undefeated Mr. O and he beat Yates and Yates never beat him. Haney was clearly a more dominant bodybuilder than Yates or Coleman.
-
ronnie has also said he is the greatest of all time mannnny times ... ND will not acknowledge that one though....
we have a video of a mr o.... stating it wouldnt even be close ... coleman would blow dorian away...
where are all the supposed quotes ON VIDEO or scans ND keeps coming out with
Not true at all , in fact I've said many times that because he tied Haney for 8 straight and has the most career wins that alone makes him the ' Greatest of all time ' that has absolutely NOTHING to do with if Ronnie would beat Dorian at his best
And what does the " Greatest of all time " have to say about beating Dorian? ;)
-
Haney has the most O with the least amount of defeats. Statistcally hes the best. Best physique to every grace a stage, 98 or 01 Ronnie but he lost alot early and he lost twice as Mr. O dispite having the most wins.
-
Beyekes skin is too thick and he doesnt come in condition. He receives no further consideration.
Haney is the best. 8x undefeated Mr. O and he beat Yates and Yates never beat him. Haney was clearly a more dominant bodybuilder than Yates or Coleman.
Haney wasn't more dominant he lost the entire night show to Labrada , Dorian to my knowledge never lost a round . Haney was more dominant than Coleman though
And Yates beat Haney in the muscularity round in his first Olympia , Haney decided to get out when the getting was good.
-
Beyekes skin is too thick and he doesnt come in condition. He receives no further consideration.
Haney is the best. 8x undefeated Mr. O and he beat Yates and Yates never beat him. Haney was clearly a more dominant bodybuilder than Yates or Coleman.
Yes, he does have thick skin but Haney ? Haney had tiny arms and legs compared to his torso, funky abs, Beyekes structure is exceptional.
Dorian's best years were 1991 1992 ad 1993 and he looked powerful, strong looking physique great conditioning, Shit biceps and and on the blocky side.
Ronnie's were 1998/1999, great taper and mass, good conditioning, freaky bodyparts, but zero flow and terrible aesthetics.
-
Haney wasn't more dominant he lost the entire night show to Labrada , Dorian to my knowledge never lost a round . Haney was more dominant than Coleman though
And Yates beat Haney in the muscularity round in his first Olympia , Haney decided to get out when the getting was good.
Is a basketball game over after the 2nd quarter? No. It aint over till its over. Thats when the winner and losers are decided...."rounds" lmao. Nice try ND. WINS. vs. LOSSES of shows. Not rounds...hahahaha way spin it Fox.
Haney is the most dominant.
-
Is a basketball game over after the 2nd quarter? No. It aint over till its over. Thats when the winner and losers are decided...."rounds" lmao. Nice try ND. WINS. vs. LOSSES of shows. Not rounds...hahahaha way spin it Fox.
Haney is the most dominant.
Haney should have lost to Mad Bertil and Flea Gaspari on a fair few occasions. Don't drop to ND levels of fanboyism Wiggins. :'(
Sergio Oliva was the most dominant, nothing missing.
-
Maybe the competitor in the back has decided there are more important things in life than having a large, muscular physique.
-
Is a basketball game over after the 2nd quarter? No. It aint over till its over. Thats when the winner and losers are decided...."rounds" lmao. Nice try ND. WINS. vs. LOSSES of shows. Not rounds...hahahaha way spin it Fox.
Haney is the most dominant.
Basketball is NOT bodybuilding.
Who dominated more? who won their contests with more of a gap between second and first? who won more contests without losing any rounds? Who has a higher win/loss percentage?
Haney entered 16 contests and won 11 , Dorian entered 17 and won 15
Haney win/loss percentage 68.75%
Dorian win/loss percentage 88.23%
Dorian never lost a round to my knowledge , Haney lost two in 1990 and one to Dorian in 1991.
Dorian never placed below second in a pro contest , Haney 3rd
Dorian won more pro shows , Haney won more Olympia titles.
Dorian dominated more than Haney did you can't argue these facts.
-
Haney should have lost to Mad Bertil and Flea Gaspari on a fair few occasions. Don't drop to ND levels of fanboyism Wiggins. :'(
Sergio Oliva was the most dominant, nothing missing.
Sergios conditioning was never consistant. Thats his fatal flaw and that huge.
Sorry bro Im a Haney fan boy and statistically I cant be proven wrong. So the answer to whose better, Ronnie or Dorian is.....Haney.
-
I guess its been a year or so, must be time for another Ronnie Vs Dorian debate...
*slams head into wall*
-
Haney should have lost to Mad Bertil and Flea Gaspari on a fair few occasions. Don't drop to ND levels of fanboyism Wiggins. :'(
Sergio Oliva was the most dominant, nothing missing.
Hahahahaha fanboyism ? Sergio was the most dominant? lost to Arnold while he was Mr Olympia and lost to Bill Pearl and then lost to Arnold again in 72
And Haney should have lost to Bertil or Gaspari , Labrada maybe those two? HA
-
I guess its been a year or so, must be time for another Ronnie Vs Dorian debate...
*slams head into wall*
Nah these guys have a new quote that supports their position and think it somehow matters more than what Ronnie said ;D it's all for shits & giggles anyway
Like Phil Heath said , Ronnie is hugely popular with younger guys like him so of course they are gonna think Ronnie is unbeatable , but Ronnie was very beatable and not anywhere near as dominate as Dorian or Haney
-
Hahahahaha fanboyism ? Sergio was the most dominant? lost to Arnold while he was Mr Olympia and lost to Bill Pearl and then lost to Arnold again in 72
And Haney should have lost to Bertil or Gaspari , Labrada maybe those two? HA
Arnold i 72? Hahaha, Everyone says Sergio raped Arnold in that contest. Fixed contests from the schmoe duo, gifts just like Ronnie and Dorian recieved on numerous occasions.
Bertil made Haney look small in 84 and labrada was the only one who was full and sharp in 1990.
Oliva's genetics make Dorian look like an amateur.
-
Nah these guys have a new quote that supports their position and think it somehow matters more than what Ronnie said ;D it's all for shits & giggles anyway
Like Phil Heath said , Ronnie is hugely popular with younger guys like him so of course they are gonna think Ronnie is unbeatable , but Ronnie was very beatable and not anywhere near as dominate as Dorian or Haney
You have failed to make your point.
8 Mr. Os, undefeated, vs. 6 Mr. Os undefeated AND Haney beat Yates. End of story.
-
Arnold i 72? Hahaha, Everyone says Sergio raped Arnold in that contest. Fixed contests from the schmoe duo, gifts just like Ronnie and Dorian recieved on numerous occasions.
Bertil made Haney look small in 84 and labrada was the only one who was full and sharp in 1990.
Oliva's genetics make Dorian look like an amateur.
How exactly did Bertil make Haney look small in 1984? especially considering he wasn't in the 84 O. ;)
wow everyone says Sergio raped Arnold so it must be true ::)
And would Oliva beat Dorian in a contest?
-
Sergios conditioning was never consistant. Thats his fatal flaw and that huge.
Sorry bro Im a Haney fan boy and statistically I cant be proven wrong. So the answer to whose better, Ronnie or Dorian is.....Haney.
Fair enough, different era but correct observation.
And you are 100% right, if you follow Nd's logic then Haney is the best, he did after all make Dorian his son.
-
You have failed to make your point.
8 Mr. Os, undefeated, vs. 6 Mr. Os undefeated AND Haney beat Yates. End of story.
No I made it perfectly hence why you didn't even bother to respond.
Haney did beat Yates no questions about , Yates took the fight to Haney and actually beat him in the muscularity round something no one ever accomplished up until that point. Dorian's first Olympia 10 pounds lighter than Haney still beat him in one round , Dorian 1993 would have left Haney for dead.
After Haney won the Olympia in 1991 he took the podium and said he just learned how to peak and might be back the next year , after Dorian pushed him he got smart and retired.
-
Fair enough, different era but correct observation.
And you are 100% right, if you follow Nd's logic then Haney is the best, he did after all make Dorian his son.
In his first Olympia Dorian beat the almighty Haney in the muscularity round despite being down 10 lbs , Dorian issued an open challenge to Haney to compete in the 1993 Olympia and Dorian said he would beat Haney , Haney never accepted smart decision because he would have been soundly defeated .
-
How exactly did Bertil make Haney look small in 1984? especially considering he wasn't in the 84 O. ;)
wow everyone says Sergio raped Arnold so it must be true ::)
And would Oliva beat Dorian in a contest?
I got my years confused sorry. :-\
No but mass consensus is as good a way as ay to judge such things.
No, different era's, far different drugs and scoring criteria. All things being equal he would yes.
-
I got my years confused sorry. :-\
No but mass consensus is as good a way as ay to judge such things.
No, different era's, far different drugs and scoring criteria. All things being equal he would yes.
What year did you think Bertil made Haney look small?
No it isn't because the minority judges contests not the mass consensus
and things would never be equal because Sergio couldn't get 1970s ripped never mind 1990s
-
No I made it perfectly hence why you didn't even bother to respond.
Haney did beat Yates no questions about , Yates took the fight to Haney and actually beat him in the muscularity round something no one ever accomplished up until that point. Dorian's first Olympia 10 pounds lighter than Haney still beat him in one round , Dorian 1993 would have left Haney for dead.
After Haney won the Olympia in 1991 he took the podium and said he just learned how to peak and might be back the next year , after Dorian pushed him he got smart and retired.
Actually you didnt. Losing to Haney pretty much ends it all head to head if they were equal, but Haney has two more Mr. Os and a win against Yates. Haney wins.
All that other stuff, your opinion. We've discussed this before and and ive stated if Haney had came back hed. ,Have upped the dosage. He was 31 when he retired, so much more improving he could have done...
-
Actually you didnt. Losing to Haney pretty much ends it all head to head if they were equal, but Haney has two more Mr. Os and a win against Yates. Haney wins.
All that other stuff, your opinion. We've discussed this before and and ive stated if Haney had came back hed. ,Have upped the dosage. He was 31 when he retired, so much more improving he could have done...
no actually I did. Haney was not more dominate than Dorian. You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.
no all that other stuff is proof not opinion. Haney hinted at coming back in 1992 in MY OPINION it's safe to assume that he saw the writing on the wall and seen that Yates would have beat him.
Dorian more dominant than Haney , Haney more dominant than Ronnie.
-
no actually I did. Haney was not more dominate than Dorian. You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.
no all that other stuff is proof not opinion. Haney hinted at coming back in 1992 in MY OPINION it's safe to assume that he saw the writing on the wall and seen that Yates would have beat him.
Dorian more dominant than Haney , Haney more dominant than Ronnie.
How are champions judged friend? Championships and domination. There is no way youre going to convince anyone other than yourself, that a person with two more titles, and a win against the other competitor head to head, that the person with less titles and the loss head to head is better. I will concede the dominance I thought Haney had a better percentage. But Haneys win over Yates and two more Mr. O ends it.
-
Ill take Tom Brady for the win, Trebeck.
-
I am currently watching this 22 minute clip.
Phil is more interesting to hear speak than Jay Cutler.
Anyone else agree?
-
How are champions judged friend? Championships and domination. There is no way youre going to convince anyone other than yourself, that a person with two more titles, and a win against the other competitor head to head, that the person with less titles and the loss head to head is better. I will concede the dominance I thought Haney had a better percentage. But Haneys win over Yates and two more Mr. O ends it.
Your original comment Haney was clearly a more dominant bodybuilder than Yates or Coleman. which was inaccurate and all I was responding to
I'm not arguing that Dorian is better than Haney because he was more dominant. Dorian at his best would beat Ronnie and Haney at their bests
-
I am currently watching this 22 minute clip.
Phil is more interesting to hear speak than Jay Cutler.
Anyone else agree?
Rather dubious honor.
-
Rather dubious honor.
Agreed. Considering that Cutler is far more articulate than Coleman perhaps this bodes well for bodybuilding.
-
Your original comment Haney was clearly a more dominant bodybuilder than Yates or Coleman. which was inaccurate and all I was responding to
I'm not arguing that Dorian is better than Haney because he was more dominant. Dorian at his best would beat Ronnie and Haney at their bests
Haney yes, Coleman no.
-
On the second page there is the supposed interview where aronnie said Dorian would keep on winning...
I don't think people are really reading what he is saying. He's saying not that Dorian was better, but he would keep on being given the title regardless.
Also, the argument that the 93 Olympia Flex was better than the 98 Flex, diff eras. A 98 Flex with the 93 Arnold's version's would have won. And I firmly believe that if Flex showed up at the 93 O in the same condition as the 93 Arnold, that it would have been a toss up.
-
Agreed. Considering that Cutler is far more articulate than Coleman perhaps this bodes well for bodybuilding.
What ??? You don't feel the need to be an asshole today?
-
On the second page there is the supposed interview where aronnie said Dorian would keep on winning...
I don't think people are really reading what he is saying. He's saying not that Dorian was better, but he would keep on being given the title regardless.
Also, the argument that the 93 Olympia Flex was better than the 98 Flex, diff eras. A 98 Flex with the 93 Arnold's version's would have won. And I firmly believe that if Flex showed up at the 93 O in the same condition as the 93 Arnold, that it would have been a toss up.
Parker, do you know Flex's weights from the AC and O that year?
-
What ??? You don't feel the need to be an asshole today?
"Sigh"... The truth only makes me an "asshole" in your eyes when you disagree with it.
-
"Sigh"... The truth only makes me an "asshole" in your eyes when you disagree with it.
`Everyone knows the truth and no one disagrees with it but no one is losing sleep over it like you
-
Yeah and after all these ' debates ' and all this time you just decided to share this with us now ::) you're full of shit
it was recently dumbo
stop wanking to his pics cock stick
-
Not true at all , in fact I've said many times that because he tied Haney for 8 straight and has the most career wins that alone makes him the ' Greatest of all time ' that has absolutely NOTHING to do with if Ronnie would beat Dorian at his best
And what does the " Greatest of all time " have to say about beating Dorian? ;)
it means he is the greatest my o ever...
thats why people call him KING ronnie.....
-
it means he is the greatest my o ever...
thats why people call him KING ronnie.....
Hahahahahahahaha you're such a fanboy
Dorian was the King long before Ronnie ;)
-
it was recently dumbo
stop wanking to his pics cock stick
You're still full of shit hope this helps
-
You're still full of shit hope this helps
ok jizz monkey
-
Hahahahahahahaha you're such a fanboy
Dorian was the King long before Ronnie ;)
Debate aside, you just cannot post this pic of your hero on a king 's garment and call others fanboys...we all ultimately are to the eyes of each other, you fanboy.
-
Debate aside, you just cannot post this pic of your hero on a king 's garment and call others fanboys...we all ultimately are to the eyes of each other, you fanboy.
ouch that hurt ::)
-
Phil's forearms are retarded.
-
ouch that hurt ::)
Why do you think I was trying to hurt you? I just think its funny and contradictory the way you treat other people's views, stay bitter.
-
This has been my completely logical argument this whole time.
1. Let`s take the Olympia judging panel as a standard measurement
2. let`s create a point system in accordance to the standard measurements of the Olympia judging panel
3. Let Ronnie`s 98 represent a 10 on the point system.
4. according to the standard olympia judging panel Flex would then get a 9 cause it was extremely close in 98.
5. According to the Olympia judging panel, they all agree (yes every single judge) that the 93 version of Flex was way better then his 98 version
6. So if he gets a 9 in 98 by the Olympia judging panel according to the standard measurement then what does he get in 93, a 10 at least, logical
7.Now if he gets a 10 according to the Olympia judging panel then what does Yates get considering it wasn`t even close, Yates gets at least a 12 according to the Olympia judges.
8. So my point is according to the Olympia judges 93 Yates beats 98 Coleman, not even close.
I agree Ronnie 1998 at what he said was his best on multiple occasions and what many consider his best Olympia appearance just simply wouldn't pose a threat he just wouldn't
Flex was OFF in 1998 off from his Arnold Classic appearance that year and way off from 1993 when he was tearing up the pro scene and it was close. These idiots claim Ronnie was overlooked in the first round which explains the discrepancy in the score , NOT accurate he was call-out and compared NINE times in the first round , he just wasn't in the first call-out and why would he be?
1993 Dorian was so far and above everyone else they didn't even need to include him in the muscularity round , like Samir Bannout said Dorian was first , second and third. After the contest Flex said Dorian is ' unbeatable '
Fast forward to 1998 and Ronnie at his career best Olympia just barely beats a sub-par Flex by just 3 points in one of the closest contests ever and he's supposed to beat Dorian 1993? it just wouldn't happen and neither would 1999 because all he did was bigger a tad bigger and lost that razor sharp conditioning he had the year before
I'v read this argument before and it makes sense, but here is the thing: was 98 Coleman's best year?
It is true that the 98 Olympia was one of the closest contests (Ronnie winning by only 3 points) and that Dorian dominated the 93 Olympia winning with straight firsts. But the thing is Ronnie also won the 99 Oympia in a dominant fashion with the same straight firsts scoring included.
Also, he won the 99 O competing against almost the same guys as the year before. So what happened? Did his entire competition (mainly Flex) get much worse or did Ronnie actually get better? I think it's safe to say Ronnie got way better (as shown in the scoring) and if any Coleman version ought to be compared to 93 Yates is his 99 version.
Outcome would be a lot closer than you guys think.
-
I'v read this argument before and it makes sense, but here is the thing: was 98 Coleman's best year?
It is true that the 98 Olympia was one of the closest contests (Ronnie winning by only 3 points) and that Dorian dominated the 93 Olympia winning with straight firsts. But the thing is Ronnie also won the 99 Oympia in a dominant fashion with the same straight firsts scoring included.
Also, he won the 99 O competing against almost the same guys as the year before. So what happened? Did his entire competition (mainly Flex) get much worse or did Ronnie actually get better? I think it's safe to say Ronnie got way better (as shown in the scoring) and if any Coleman version ought to be compared to 93 Yates is his 99 version.
Outcome would be a lot closer than you guys think.
Ronnie's straight firsts are relative to who he was competing with , he got straight firsts in 2000 as well did he get better? NO not compared to 1998 which he himself has said repeatedly was his best Olympia showing among others and why? he was bone dry and rock hard
Ronnie 1999 little bigger not as hard or dry is that really an improvement? I don't think Flex looked as good in 99 as he did in 98 either which explains why Ronnie beat him easily
-
I'v read this argument before and it makes sense, but here is the thing: was 98 Coleman's best year?
It is true that the 98 Olympia was one of the closest contests (Ronnie winning by only 3 points) and that Dorian dominated the 93 Olympia winning with straight firsts. But the thing is Ronnie also won the 99 Oympia in a dominant fashion with the same straight firsts scoring included.
Also, he won the 99 O competing against almost the same guys as the year before. So what happened? Did his entire competition (mainly Flex) get much worse or did Ronnie actually get better? I think it's safe to say Ronnie got way better (as shown in the scoring) and if any Coleman version ought to be compared to 93 Yates is his 99 version.
Outcome would be a lot closer than you guys think.
No, the judging has zero basis. Don't try and apply logic to a completely corrupt judging system that has no criteria, with scoring that contradicts itself.
-
Ronnie's straight firsts are relative to who he was competing with , he got straight firsts in 2000 as well did he get better? NO not compared to 1998 which he himself has said repeatedly was his best Olympia showing among others and why? he was bone dry and rock hard
Ronnie 1999 little bigger not as hard or dry is that really an improvement? I don't think Flex looked as good in 99 as he did in 98 either which explains why Ronnie beat him easily
I agree that the scoring is relative to who he was competing against, but the 99 O top 6 was almost the same as in 98. I saw the 2000 Olympia video and they all looked worse, but I don't think there was much difference from 98 to 99 as far as Ronnie's competition is concerned. Flex was almost the same in my opinion, plus the synthol enhanced arms/delts made him look a bit more 'impressive'.
As far as Ronnie, he was a bit less dry in 99, but he was a tad bigger which gave him an overall better look. He compromised one for the other, but the thing is which made him look better for the judges? Why would a bit less dry be better than bigger, improved separation, etc?
I mean, its not like the 2003 vs 98 difference, in which case his conditioning got much worse for size's sake.
-
I agree that the scoring is relative to who he was competing against, but the 99 O top 6 was almost the same as in 98. I saw the 2000 Olympia video and they all looked worse, but I don't think there was much difference from 98 to 99 as far as Ronnie's competition is concerned. Flex was almost the same in my opinion, plus the synthol enhanced arms/delts made him look a bit more 'impressive'.
As far as Ronnie, he was a bit less dry in 99, but he was a tad bigger which gave him an overall better look. He compromised one for the other, but the thing is which made him look better for the judges? Why would a bit less dry be better than bigger, improved separation, etc?
I mean, its not like the 2003 vs 98 difference, in which case his conditioning got much worse for size's sake.
I disagree I don't think any were almost the same and the difference between Ronnie 98 and 99 conditioning is noticeable not negligible. I have both videos and there is a huge difference Ronnie was on point in 98 not so in 99 tad heavier not as hard or as dry not really an advantage when you're competing with someone who is just as heavy and with much better conditioning.
-
No, the judging has zero basis. Don't try and apply logic to a completely corrupt judging system that has no criteria, with scoring that contradicts itself.
I don't think the judging system is that corrupt, but it sure has/had some strange outcomes in numerous occasions.
-
I disagree I don't think any were almost the same and the difference between Ronnie 98 and 99 conditioning is noticeable not negligible. I have both videos and there is a huge difference Ronnie was on point in 98 not so in 99 tad heavier not as hard or as dry not really an advantage when you're competing with someone who is just as heavy and with much better conditioning.
I'm only going by the youtube clips I've seen from both 99 and 98, differences are probably much more noticeable in your videos.
Anyway, you're probably right. I was just trying to provide another point of view/argument.
Do you agree that Ronnie's 98 O version would have the best chance going against Dorian's best? How about 2001 AC or the 2003 Olympia?
-
I'm only going by the youtube clips I've seen from both 99 and 98, differences are probably much more noticeable in your videos.
Anyway, you're probably right. I was just trying to provide another point of view/argument.
Do you agree that Ronnie's 98 O version would have the best chance going against Dorian's best? How about 2001 AC or the 2003 Olympia?
I think 98 and 01 are interchangeable both around 247-249lbs shredded. 03 Ronnie is massive beyond all belief but his conditioning isn't no where near 98 but good for that amount of size and his balance & proportion are in the red
Ronnie was at his best at his lightest and he would need to be on point to try and beat Dorian , but I think Dorian just has to many advantages for a lighter Ronnie.
-
I'v read this argument before and it makes sense, but here is the thing: was 98 Coleman's best year?
It is true that the 98 Olympia was one of the closest contests (Ronnie winning by only 3 points) and that Dorian dominated the 93 Olympia winning with straight firsts. But the thing is Ronnie also won the 99 Oympia in a dominant fashion with the same straight firsts scoring included.
Also, he won the 99 O competing against almost the same guys as the year before. So what happened? Did his entire competition (mainly Flex) get much worse or did Ronnie actually get better? I think it's safe to say Ronnie got way better (as shown in the scoring) and if any Coleman version ought to be compared to 93 Yates is his 99 version.
Outcome would be a lot closer than you guys think.
I agree with you here that my argument above is a valid argument if and only if Ronnie's best was 98 and if his best was 99 then my argument is no longer valid, that is correct I would say
So anyone who thinks Ronnie's best was 98 has to agree to this common sense.
-
I think 98 and 01 are interchangeable both around 247-249lbs shredded. 03 Ronnie is massive beyond all belief but his conditioning isn't no where near 98 but good for that amount of size and his balance & proportion are in the red
Ronnie was at his best at his lightest and he would need to be on point to try and beat Dorian , but I think Dorian just has to many advantages for a lighter Ronnie.
I always thought Dorian's biggest advantages against Ronnie or anyone for that matter were his conditioning and structure.
Thanks for your insight.
-
No, the judging has zero basis. Don't try and apply logic to a completely corrupt judging system that has no criteria, with scoring that contradicts itself.
Call it corrupt, call it whatever you want, and I agree BTW, but my argument is from this corrupt judging stands. I, personally am not arguing who I think is better cause if i did that I would say Shawn Ray ;D We have been around long enough to see the Olympia panel judges and how they play their cards and based on their perspective it is easy to decipher they would pick Dorian 93 over Ronnie 98. Actually you can make this assessment very easily.
-
Call it corrupt, call it whatever you want, and I agree BTW, but my argument is from this corrupt judging stands. I, personally am not arguing who I think is better cause if i did that I would say Shawn Ray ;D We have been around long enough to see the Olympia panel judges and how they play their cards and based on their perspective it is easy to decipher they would pick Dorian 93 over Ronnie 98. Actually you can make this assessment very easily.
Holler
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/StpDiNFFtaI/AAAAAAAAA30/sQShxdmwGSI/s400/1994-mr-olympia-bw-30.JPG)
-
Holler
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/StpDiNFFtaI/AAAAAAAAA30/sQShxdmwGSI/s400/1994-mr-olympia-bw-30.JPG)
arms look near enough the same size, and dorian outweighs him by 30 to 40 lbs
:-\
-
It says 23' inch biceps. Am I reading this properly? Anyone? LOL
-
Call it corrupt, call it whatever you want, and I agree BTW, but my argument is from this corrupt judging stands. I, personally am not arguing who I think is better cause if i did that I would say Shawn Ray ;D We have been around long enough to see the Olympia panel judges and how they play their cards and based on their perspective it is easy to decipher they would pick Dorian 93 over Ronnie 98. Actually you can make this assessment very easily.
Well there is a logic to what your saying but i still think you are applying more of a criteria than exists. The IFBB likes dynasties, so they judge based on who is on a created streak. IF Dorian was an up and comer unknown who brought his 1993 physique against Ronnie in 1999 he would lose, probably wouldn't finish top three and vice versa, if Ronnie brought his 1998 physique in 1993 or 1994 while being an unknown he loses.IMO.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/StpDiNFFtaI/AAAAAAAAA30/sQShxdmwGSI/s400/1994-mr-olympia-bw-30.JPG)
Shawn has far more detail in legs here, more quad sweep, tighter waist, more defined abs and intercostals, a far fuller thicker chest, better traps, far better lines. Dominates the shot. 8)
-
It says 23' inch biceps. Am I reading this properly? Anyone? LOL
Bodybuilding in a newspaper? Which one do you know?
-
I think 98 and 01 are interchangeable both around 247-249lbs shredded. 03 Ronnie is massive beyond all belief but his conditioning isn't no where near 98 but good for that amount of size and his balance & proportion are in the red
Ronnie was at his best at his lightest and he would need to be on point to try and beat Dorian , but I think Dorian just has to many advantages for a lighter Ronnie.
Yip its the LIGHTER Coleman that would be the Shape to Compete and (POSSIBLY) Defeat Yates, 1998 he was Full, Shredded and DRY @ a click under 250lbs, IMO its that Version that would be the yard-stick he'd Need against Yates
-
Some body post that pic from 96 mr o where this "lighter Coleman was owning Dorian from behind
Coleman was in red trunks
-
Some body post that pic from 96 mr o where this "lighter Coleman was owning Dorian from behind
Coleman was in red trunks
Yep. Coleman in 96 from the back was better than Yates...BTW, this is the first year I saw Coleman on video.
-
Yep. Coleman in 96 from the back was better than Yates...BTW, this is the first year I saw Coleman on video.
Bro, why you got to smoke weed so early in the morning ;D
-
Bro, why you got to smoke weed so early in the morning ;D
No weed. Please someone post video or photo
-
ermm... no he didnt.....
-
coleman looked like a sack of shit until he paid somone to tell him how to take drugs and diet propperly, he became a force just after diesels retirement at the noc
-
a weird, awkward.... very 'unblack', like a geeky white bloke boot polished up, anyone remember his funky chicken posing routine from one of the mid 90'syears, made a right tit of him self, thats why his legacy will never be as stella as the shadows...
-
ermm... no he didnt.....
Post the stage picture of comparisons on stage Coleman murders Yates from behind...
But you guys won't see that because they said otherwise ... Coleman was in red trunks beat Yates from. Shine.. But I'm sure none of you Dorian fans will post that one up
-
Post the stage picture of comparisons on stage Coleman murders Yates from behind...
But you guys won't see that because they said otherwise ... Coleman was in red trunks beat Yates from. Shine.. But I'm sure none of you Dorian fans will post that one up
How can he be murdering him with inferior conditioning and an inferior structure? ???
-
Holler
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/StpDiNFFtaI/AAAAAAAAA30/sQShxdmwGSI/s400/1994-mr-olympia-bw-30.JPG)
In this shot Shawn looks way better. As a personal preference I think Shawn's physique was better, more aesthetic, better arms and legs.
But looking at the entire contest, not just one pic, it is clear to see why Dorian won. His advantage in size, condition and structure were too much for Shawn or Kevin.
-
How can he be murdering him with inferior conditioning and an inferior structure? ???
your opinion.
yaates had a very similar structure to fux....
you do the math
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtXXIAoP2GeZM2qRec0VhXaAvANHCtbFkKe21qLjqxWfVk5QKa)
there is even a better one
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtXXIAoP2GeZM2qRec0VhXaAvANHCtbFkKe21qLjqxWfVk5QKa)
there is even a better one
BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28703;image)
-
BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and that is 96 coleman.. nowhere near 98
also i hear people throwing around weight.... how much does dorian outweigh coleman by in that pic....
tell me because I cant tell.... by looking....
-
Dorian was 260 in 96. I don't know how much Ronnie weighed that year. Do you?
-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28703;image)
lol, and there are people who dare to compare philsuline head with big ron
-
your opinion.
yaates had a very similar structure to fux....
you do the math
I alway thought Yates had a similar structure to Haney.
-
Dorian was 260 in 96. I don't know how much Ronnie weighed that year. Do you?
no but what im saying is I can tell from that pic because he isnt out massing coleman there... nor does he have a better shape in that pic....
yates was highly overated IMO....
like brian dobson said in one of ronnie vids, he went to many shows where ronnie should have placed higher, but he just had to pay his dues and plug it out.
was ronnie 6th in 96... well hes owing mr O there
-
Ronnie's upper body was better than Dorian from 96 on.
His total body was better than Dorian's 98 on.
-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28703;image)
Ronnie is the King!
-
For fuck sake
-
For fuck sake
i know yates already said ronnie was better over the long haul, so what's the debate about? also, ronnie took risks like the arnold and gnc while yates ran back to london after each O win.
-
your opinion.
yaates had a very similar structure to fux....
you do the math
Similar, but not the same.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtXXIAoP2GeZM2qRec0VhXaAvANHCtbFkKe21qLjqxWfVk5QKa)
there is even a better one
Sorry, but Dorian is winning that shot.
-
i know yates already said ronnie was better over the long haul, so what's the debate about? also, ronnie took risks like the arnold and gnc while yates ran back to london after each O win.
Yates said that? link please?
-
Similar, but not the same.
Sorry, but Dorian is winning that shot.
No he's not.
-
i know yates already said ronnie was better over the long haul, so what's the debate about? also, ronnie took risks like the arnold and gnc while yates ran back to london after each O win.
Competing at the GNC against Gunter wouldn't have been a risk for Dorian.
-
No he's not.
yes he is big time, he looks like a granite statue with a near perfect structure. Ronnie looks very odd there, no flow
-
No he's not.
Yes he is, much better conditioning and a better structure.
Please explain why you think Ronnie wins the shot.
-
yes he is big time, he looks like a granite statue with a near perfect structure. Ronnie looks very odd there, no flow
Hahhahahhhahhahahahhahha Yates, near perfect stucture and Ronnie no flow...I will no longer take anything you say seriously.
-
Thong Wars
-
Yes he is, much better conditioning and a better structure.
Please explain why you think Ronnie wins the shot.
Presentation of his back in that shot, more separtion and development of the smaller back muscles. Dorian is dense as fuck no doubt but Ronnie s dense with more separation and better structure in that shot.
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtXXIAoP2GeZM2qRec0VhXaAvANHCtbFkKe21qLjqxWfVk5QKa)
yates is a bit wide and blocky like cutler but ronnie's back is thicker. anyway, that's full-blown career bbing Yates vs FT job working Ronnie. ;D
over the long haul, ronnie was better. your lord, Yates, said this, so there is no debate.
-
Presentation of his back in that shot, more separtion and development of the smaller back muscles. Dorian is dense as fuck no doubt but Ronnie s dense with more separation and better structure in that shot.
Dorian is killing Ronnie there as far as conditioning goes, which allows him to show better separation in the back and leg muscles. How can Ronnie have better separation with his inferior conditioning?
And Ronnie a better structure? Please explain.
Dorian is wider and has a near perfect structure in that shot.
-
Yates is winning the pose...
Far far drier, squarer shoulders, more seperation, just structurally far better from behind.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/96%20olympia/30.jpg)
-
Presentation of his back in that shot, more separtion and development of the smaller back muscles. Dorian is dense as fuck no doubt but Ronnie s dense with more separation and better structure in that shot.
No where near Dorian's density though
Bro Ronnie has got a crappy structure, it is more evident now then ever, watch him walking around the shows and you can see it for yourself, of course this can be camouflaged with a lot of muscle, but in that particular shot he looks very wierd
-
Yates is winning the pose...
Far far drier, squarer shoulders, more seperation, just structurally far better from behind.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/96%20olympia/30.jpg)
Exactly and way deeper lines
-
can you imagine the size of yates if he was as soft as rhonnie there?,, he'd be about 20lbs heavier at least, thats what you peoples forget about !!!!!!!
-
Gentlemen, for the sake of my time and sanity, I'll no longer argue this point. We'll have to agree to disagree...lol
-
can you imagine the size of yates if he was as soft as rhonnie there?,, he'd be about 20lbs heavier at least, thats what you peoples forget about !!!!!!!
Ronnie always looked like a fucking marshmellow compared to Yates. I'm not Yates biggest fan but his structure from the back destroys Coleman, Ronnie had a very average/narrow structure with industrial amounts of muscle slapped on it, you are seeing that with his build now.
-
Gentlemen, for the sake of my time and sanity, I'll no longer argue this point. We'll have to agree to disagree...lol
lol, Ya I am out too plus I had another debate going with you in another thread about something completely different ;D only on getbig.
-
can you imagine the size of yates if he was as soft as rhonnie there?,, he'd be about 20lbs heavier at least, thats what you peoples forget about !!!!!!!
lol
-
No where near Dorian's density though
Bro Ronnie has got a crappy structure, it is more evident now then ever, watch him walking around the shows and you can see it for yourself, of course this can be camouflaged with a lot of muscle, but in that particular shot he looks very wierd
Ronnie had a small waist, and very good aesthetics, but once he started getting heavy, it blew his symmety and aesthetics, as the extra muscle/weight had nowhere to go. That is the karma of guys who have the small waist. Look at that pic of Dorian, Shawn and Ronnie from the back. Look at how small Ronnie's waist is relative to Dorian's, look at the shape, and see how he is closely matched up to Shawn. It's just his W African genetics. Just as Dorian's genetics have the blocky/wide waist look. Plus, he tended to walk around with his shoulders pinched back, instead of walking with his shoulders "square up".
-
Ronnie had a small waist, and very good aesthetics, but once he started getting heavy, it blew his symmety and aesthetics, as the extra muscle/weight had nowhere to go. That is the karma of guys who have the small waist. Look at that pic of Dorian, Shawn and Ronnie from the back. Look at how small Ronnie's waist is relative to Dorian's, look at the shape, and see how he is closely matched up to Shawn. It's just his W African genetics. Just as Dorian's genetics have the blocky/wide waist look. Plus, he tended to walk around with his shoulders pinched back, instead of walking with his shoulders "square up".
I can agree that Ronnie had great shape to his muscle and a lot of his body parts had better shape then Yates but his structure was off
-
Gentlemen, for the sake of my time and sanity, I'll no longer argue this point. We'll have to agree to disagree...lol
lol
-
Ronnie had a small waist, and very good aesthetics, but once he started getting heavy, it blew his symmety and aesthetics, as the extra muscle/weight had nowhere to go. That is the karma of guys who have the small waist. Look at that pic of Dorian, Shawn and Ronnie from the back. Look at how small Ronnie's waist is relative to Dorian's, look at the shape, and see how he is closely matched up to Shawn. It's just his W African genetics. Just as Dorian's genetics have the blocky/wide waist look. Plus, he tended to walk around with his shoulders pinched back, instead of walking with his shoulders "square up".
He had a structurally small waist but his lines were horrible. He never had the aesthetics of a Buchanan, Paris, Oliva, among others. Although Dorians waist was wider, his shoulders were wider and squarer and his lat insertions better, so he looks structurally far more sound. Ronnie had a few freaky bodyparts and tons of mass on an average frame. Remember he lost to Levrone and Flex at nationals, they both looked better than him at lighter bodyweights.
-
thats what bothers me when all rhonnieys fans on here keep piping up about how he's so amazing, they totaly look past the entire 1st half of his career
-
Ronnie had a small waist, and very good aesthetics, but once he started getting heavy, it blew his symmety and aesthetics, as the extra muscle/weight had nowhere to go. That is the karma of guys who have the small waist. Look at that pic of Dorian, Shawn and Ronnie from the back. Look at how small Ronnie's waist is relative to Dorian's, look at the shape, and see how he is closely matched up to Shawn. It's just his W African genetics. Just as Dorian's genetics have the blocky/wide waist look. Plus, he tended to walk around with his shoulders pinched back, instead of walking with his shoulders "square up".
The only thing aesthetic about Ronnie was his small waist, but it didn't help him as his structure was not very good. Guys like Ray and Wheeler were far more aesthetic than Ronnie.
Even though Dorian's waist is slightly wider, so is his back, which actually makes him look better than Ronnie in that shot, structurally and shape wise.
-
Epic backfire on posting that pic lol
Any bodybuilding judge on the planet will give the nod to Yates in that pic
-
huge backfire...... i know the point he was trying to make, as in 'look at how big his back is....' but somehow forgetting or overlooking the fact he was like a water balloon
-
Dorian Yates officially the G.O.A.T.
Who was the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time? Bodybuilding.com article from September 2006:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek94.htm
-
And where is the original poster of the pic? That guy meso was saying Ronnie owned Dorian in that shot, but was rebutted and he disappeared.
That's something I've seen amongst Ronnie fans here, they say Ronnie would win against Dorian or wins a shot, etc. but never explain their points.
-
wait to hulkster reads this,,,, 100 pages later this will still be argued
-
Ronnie always looked like a fucking marshmellow compared to Yates. I'm not Yates biggest fan but his structure from the back destroys Coleman, Ronnie had a very average/narrow structure with industrial amounts of muscle slapped on it, you are seeing that with his build now.
Have you ever seen Ronnie or Dorian in person?
-
Have you ever seen Ronnie or Dorian in person?
Yes i fucked them both. Ronnie's glutes were more striated but he was holding water in his lower back, Dorian had more density but was lacking a bit of fullness but neither could compete with DLB in regards to pure schmoetastic muscularity and gummyness . No homo.
-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28703;image)
That's from a contest where Dorian beat Ronnie ;) epic backfire. ;D
-
This is reality not some shot where Ronnie is closer to the camera and Dorian is off to the side, This is 1996 and Dorian is 257lbs and Ronnie is 250lbs , Dorian is wider with wider clavicles and 10X harder & drier
-
Exactly and way deeper lines
See that's the delusion of Ronnie fanboys they think Dorian is really losing that shot LMAO when the reality of the situation is Ronnie is NO WHERE near in not in density , dryness , thickness or balance & proportion
Dorian finished with straight firsts and Ronnie was SIXTH !!
-
The Ronnie fan boys live in a magical and special world , where facts don't exist and the Kool-aid flows like wine. A place where Ronnie is beating Dorian from the back in 96 and Dorian would be lucky to be even mentioned in the same sentence as Ronnie , where Ronnie was ' unbeatable ' and he ' dominated ' where he is the bestest ever in the whole wide world ::)
-
comparing young Ronnie to Old is just bullshit. Young Ronnie was 15th at the Olympia, but for some fucking reason he found the drugs of Gods and turned into a mutant, that point Dorian was done but Ronnie morphed into something out of this world. Now look at 2001-2006 Ronnie.
-
::)
dumbass, that show was done on ronnie's home court, and he came in half-ass, thinking it was his show, no matter what. i called this show the day before. he should have stayed the fuck out of louisiana. the red necks were going to do him in for this german white boy. &guy robbery than cutler winning in 2006. it's amazing how branch can win shows with multiple tears and diseased looking little body, but ronnie can't defend his title vs vastly inferior white boys.
Coming from a non Caucasian that is clearly not racist at all, right?
-
This is reality not some shot where Ronnie is closer to the camera and Dorian is off to the side, This is 1996 and Dorian is 257lbs and Ronnie is 250lbs , Dorian is wider with wider clavicles and 10X harder & drier
Pose is decieving. Do the pose the Dorian is doing, you must bring your shoulders out, and flare out your elbows. This is diff than what Ronnie is doing--just standing.
Go to the mirror and do both and see the difference. you can change your illusion of width.
-
lots of opinions with racist undertones in this thread
-
In this shot Shawn looks way better. As a personal preference I think Shawn's physique was better, more aesthetic, better arms and legs.
But looking at the entire contest, not just one pic, it is clear to see why Dorian won. His advantage in size, condition and structure were too much for Shawn or Kevin.
One dude looks like a real bodybuilder (Shawn) and the other like a Huge gym rat (Dorian), Dorian had great conditioning, but his structure sucked and he was the main reason for the decline of real bodybuilding.
Sorry dudes true :'(
-
Pose is decieving. Do the pose the Dorian is doing, you must bring your shoulders out, and flare out your elbows. This is diff than what Ronnie is doing--just standing.
Go to the mirror and do both and see the difference. you can change your illusion of width.
I only posted that one because it's them side-by-side and neither hit the shot at the exact same time but someone did get both of them doing separately and placed it side-by-side , the results are the same. Ronnie is slightly twisted but not enough to make a difference .
Ronnie wasn't Wolf in the clavicle department , he wasn't Heath either.
-
I only posted that one because it's them side-by-side and neither hit the shot at the exact same time but someone did get both of them doing separately and placed it side-by-side , the results are the same. Ronnie is slightly twisted but not enough to make a difference .
Ronnie wasn't Wolf in the clavicle department , he wasn't Heath either.
Completely irrelevant. It was at this time that Ronnie started some new drug or routine of drugs and turned into something crazy. Ronnie never turned into the freak until after this show. it's like comparing Dorian before he won the Mr. Olympia to a Ronnie who was winning it.
-
I only posted that one because it's them side-by-side and neither hit the shot at the exact same time but someone did get both of them doing separately and placed it side-by-side , the results are the same. Ronnie is slightly twisted but not enough to make a difference .
Ronnie wasn't Wolf in the clavicle department , he wasn't Heath either.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/96%20olympia/30.jpg)
it still doesn't work because ronnie was taller than yates and you have compressed him to the same size. i'll go with yates on this one, that ronnie was better over the long haul. there's no debate because that came from the man himself.
-
BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Same contest Ronnie doesn't compare
-
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/96%20olympia/30.jpg)
it still doesn't work because ronnie was taller than yates and you have compressed him to the same size. i'll go with yates on this one, that ronnie was better over the long haul. there's no debate because that came from the man himself.
Ronnie was 1/2" an inch taller that's squabbling.
-
One dude looks like a real bodybuilder (Shawn) and the other like a Huge gym rat (Dorian), Dorian had great conditioning, but his structure sucked and he was the main reason for the decline of real bodybuilding.
Sorry dudes true :'(
Shawn was more aesthetic and I agree he had a better 'look', but he was not a better bodybuilder in terms of the judging and what wins contests.
It is completely mistaken to say Dorian's structure sucked, he actually had one of the best structures in bodybuilding. Do you know what a good structure is? A good structure isn't only having a taper or a small waist. Dorian actually had a much better structure than Shawn, he was much wider/wider clavicles, taller, better limb/torso length ratio. Shawn's only advantage was a smaller waist. The fact that Dorian ruined his aesthetics becoming a mass monster is another story.
-
Completely irrelevant. It was at this time that Ronnie started some new drug or routine of drugs and turned into something crazy. Ronnie never turned into the freak until after this show. it's like comparing Dorian before he won the Mr. Olympia to a Ronnie who was winning it.
Actually not true because what did Ronnie improve on from this contest to his Olympia win? conditioning. did he get bigger? NO he was already 250lbs here and 255lbs in 1997 and he weighed a completely peeled 249lbs in 1998
We're not talking Ronnie here compared to 2003 and no matter how dry Ronnie became his structure , muscle length , clavicle width and balance & proportions would NOT ever change , these you can't change
-
Shawn was more aesthetic and I agree he had better 'look', but he was not a better bodybuilder in terms of the judging and what wins contests.
It is completely mistaken to say Dorian's structured sucked, he actually had one of the best structures in bodybuilding. Do you know what a good structure is? A good structure isn't only having a taper or a small waist. Dorian actually had a much better structure than Shawn, he was much wider/wider clavicles, taller, better limb/torso length ratio. Shawn's only advantage was a smaller waist. The fact that Dorian ruined his aesthetics becoming a mass monster is another story.
Shawn had better ' symmetry ' than Dorian and aesthetics but so did Flex doesn't mean much never did. Dorian did have a good structure and great balance & proportion but he was never aesthetic in the traditional sense.
people can't separate what they like from what wins , I bitched and moaned that Flex was screwed over back in 1993 and contests were fixed because I preferred Flex to Dorian then I realized I was wrong.
-
lots of opinions with racist undertones in this thread
Yeah every black guy in it scoffs at the idea a white guy might be better. I don't think it has so much to do with race as it does preference.
-
It's all starting to fall apart for the Coleman nut-huggers especially with pics like this being posted. ;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=439113.0;attach=482293;image)
-
Gentlemen, for the sake of my time and sanity, I'll no longer argue this point. We'll have to agree to disagree...lol
Exactly maybe if Ronnie was white they could see Is the only answer I could come up with in any event to my eyes Coleman looks better there better back better taper
That was 96 and Coleman was nowhere near his peak or even 98
Peak Coleman Dorian is not close sorry
That's my final statement in regards to this debate
-
Epic backfire on posting that pic lol
Any bodybuilding judge on the planet will give the nod to Yates in that pic
All opinion that's like you saying that lobster looks good and posting a pic
Of it then me saying no it looks gross
Does that mean the lobster isnt good... ?
Because I said so???
When they talk about the greatest mainly 2 names come up
Arnold and KING Coleman ...
Debating this further is pointless I'll leave it where it is now
-
Shawn had better ' symmetry ' than Dorian and aesthetics but so did Flex doesn't mean much never did. Dorian did have a good structure and great balance & proportion but he was never aesthetic in the traditional sense.
people can't separate what they like from what wins , I bitched and moaned that Flex was screwed over back in 1993 and contests were fixed because I preferred Flex to Dorian then I realized I was wrong.
It's true, I couldn't separate them either, but then I learned what wins contests and understood how guys like Dorian dominated the way they did.
I think most Ronnie fans here do the same, they like Ronnie better for whatever reason and think he'd win, but when asked why they can't explain.
-
All opinion that's like you saying that lobster looks good and posting a pic
Of it then me saying no it looks gross
Does that mean the lobster isnt good... ?
Because I said so???
When they talk about the greatest mainly 2 names come up
Arnold and KING Coleman ...
Debating this further is pointless I'll leave it where it is now
Opinion is fine, but it is not the same as what would win a contest based on an objective criteria.
If you think Ronnie looks better in the pic you posted fine, but it doesn't mean he wins the shot as he clearly doesn't
-
That's YOUR opinion so it's all based on opinion
In any event I still thing Ronnie looks better in that shot And I don't care who says different this "sport is based on opinion ....
Ronnie looks better and that's small Ronnie 96
Coleman 98 Dorian no chance not close no comparison
-
That's YOUR opinion so it's all based on opinion
In any event I still thing Ronnie looks better in that shot And I don't care who says different this "sport is based on opinion ....
Ronnie looks better and that's small Ronnie 96
Coleman 98 Dorian no chance not close no comparison
One I thought you were done with this topic , twice now? two small Ronnie? funny Ronnie weighed 250lbs in 96 and 249 in 98 three the side-by-side Dorian is making him look SMALL and he's only 7 lbs heavier
-
Exactly maybe if Ronnie was white they could see Is the only answer I could come up with in any event to my eyes Coleman looks better there better back better taper
That was 96 and Coleman was nowhere near his peak or even 98
Peak Coleman Dorian is not close sorry
That's my final statement in regards to this debate
The only thing Ronnie had better than Dorian in 1996 was biceps and taper everywhere else he gets blown off the stage and the closest he ever came to Dorian was a very distant sixth place
fact is Ronnie was never in Dorian's league faced him 9 times and lost every time and even after Yates retired and Ronnie started to win he still said Dorian would hand him his ass. ;D
Dorian was a winning machine , statistically he wouldn't lose , Dorian would be the odds on favorite
-
The only thing Ronnie had better than Dorian in 1996 was biceps and taper everywhere else he gets blown off the stage and the closest he ever came to Dorian was a very distant sixth place
fact is Ronnie was never in Dorian's league faced him 9 times and lost every time and even after Yates retired and Ronnie started to win he still said Dorian would hand him his ass. ;D
Dorian was a winning machine , statistically he wouldn't lose , Dorian would be the odds on favorite
All your opinion ... Which is fine you aren't gonna change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours
Like I said you have arnold and KING COLEMAN Yates was not impressive nor have great shape he just had a good back.... He is the branch of yesteryear in my eyes .... Paul kevin shawn flex all
Better physiques... Imo
-
All your opinion ... Which is fine you aren't gonna change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours
Like I said you have arnold and KING COLEMAN Yates was not impressive nor have great shape he just had a good back.... He is the branch of yesteryear in my eyes .... Paul kevin shawn flex all
Better physiques... Imo
Actually NO it's not all my opinion. lot of facts in there and they aren't open for discussion. I know your opinion quite well doesn't change the facts though.
Meso you're just gonna have to face facts Ronnie was never in Dorian's league 8)
-
mesmorph, it's not only our opinion, it's also based on a judging criteria. That's why we say that Dorian would win or that he wins that 96 shot. You just say you think Ronnie is better, which is ok, but doesn't change the facts.
Do you even know the criteria? Do you know how contests are judged?
Also ND is right, a lot of facts he posted show Dorian had the advantage.
-
Actually NO it's not all my opinion. lot of facts in there and they aren't open for discussion. I know your opinion quite well doesn't change the facts though.
Meso you're just gonna have to face facts Ronnie was never in Dorian's league 8)
Facts are a world record a lap time etc bbibg is nothing more than a glorified beauty contest.... To be fair so there a no facts to face my friend.... I would gamble on the following "fact" more of the bbibg community recognises ronni as superior by far .... Hence why you will oft hear "Ronnie was from another planet" and he still has not being surpassed at peak .... It's been quited in flex md and other bbibg magazines Ronnie to the "sport to another level" so that would imply Dorians level has long being surpassed just you and a small faction holds onto the grains (pun intended)
Around 15 on this whole site I'd estimate concurs with you... Nameless you one hard , iceman , England 1 ( no surprise there) rocket etc...
Majority holds ... Coleman as the greatest and that my friend is fact...
So we're gonna have to respectfully disagree on this topic
Meso
8)
I'll leave it hulkser and you to trash it out
;D
-
Facts are a world record a lap time etc bbibg is nothing more than a glorified beauty contest.... To be fair so there a no facts to face my friend.... I would gamble on the following "fact" more of the bbibg community recognises ronni as superior by far .... Hence why you will oft hear "Ronnie was from another planet" and he still has not being surpassed at peak .... It's been quited in flex md and other bbibg magazines Ronnie to the "sport to another level" so that would imply Dorians level has long being surpassed just you and a small faction holds onto the grains (pun intended)
Around 15 on this whole site I'd estimate concurs with you... Nameless you one hard , iceman , England 1 ( no surprise there) rocket etc...
Majority holds ... Coleman as the greatest and that my friend is fact...
So we're gonna have to respectfully disagree on this topic
Meso
8)
I'll leave it hulkser and you to trash it out
;D
I've read the quote game before and I'll just say that just as many people in the 'bbing community' have said Dorian is better than Ronnie as the people that have said Ronnie is better than Dorian.
And I know this one hurts you and all Ronnie fans, but.......Ronnie himself said Dorian would beat him! ;D lol
-
I've read the quote game before and I'll just say that just as many people in the 'bbing community' have said Dorian is better than Ronnie as the people that have said Ronnie is better than Dorian.
And I know this one hurts you and all Ronnie fans, but.......Ronnie himself said Dorian would beat him! ;D lol
Dorian only beat Ronnie to torn/effed up body parts. And Ronnie has beaten Dorian in deteriorating the quickest. I say, it's a draw.
-
Dorian only beat Ronnie to torn/effed up body parts. And Ronnie has beaten Dorian in deteriorating the quickest. I say, it's a draw.
The truth is this debate will go on for ions.
But consider this, the whole bodybuilding community, and I mean everyone is always talking about how LEGENDARY the 90`s bodybuilding is and how shitty the 2000`s era is and was. Ronnie struggled against a shitty era and Dorian dominated and slaughtered a legendary era. And if you say `Well Coleman won in the 90`s as well, fine but struggled and barely won.
-
The truth is this debate will go on for ions.
But consider this, the whole bodybuilding community, and I mean everyone is always talking about how LEGENDARY the 90`s bodybuilding is and how shitty the 2000`s era is and was. Ronnie struggled against a shitty era and Dorian dominated and slaughtered a legendary era. And if you say `Well Coleman won in the 90`s as well, fine but struggled and barely won.
he won in 98 and 99 how was that a struggle his wins in the 90's were unquestioned unlike dorians.... he should have never won with torn bis and tris.... and nasser beat him IMO in 97...
you like dorian cool but dont make it twist your grasp on reality.. Ill be the irst to say soleman got too big and wait got out o control...
dorian did not dominate he was given gifts... i remember reading a old magazine the comentary on 07 mr o nd the writer even statid naser won.. flex muscle mag stated nasser won and was robbed how do you have it down dorian slaughtered...
man please...
..dorian 92 93.....
ronnie dominated in 98 99 00 03 04 05
IMO
-
yes dorian completely dominated..... nd dominated
the 90's
(http://www.dutchbodybuilding.com/gallery/data/960/paul-dillett-dorian-yates.JPG)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2FkjfNJy5KTLGLUe8_W2L7RnKu9g7goxb2un743q836Ajq4mo&t=1)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmjPWfU_3wPe_fv-4N3ZqDUQru_twwMKw2oNob7_1YbXMRgEUmnQ&t=1)
-
he won in 98 and 99 how was that a struggle his wins in the 90's were unquestioned unlike dorians.... he should have never won with torn bis and tris.... and nasser beat him IMO in 97...
you like dorian cool but dont make it twist your grasp on reality.. Ill be the irst to say soleman got too big and wait got out o control...
dorian did not dominate he was given gifts... i remember reading a old magazine the comentary on 07 mr o nd the writer even statid naser won.. flex muscle mag stated nasser won and was robbed how do you have it down dorian slaughtered...
man please...
..dorian 92 93.....
ronnie dominated in 98 99 00 03 04 05
IMO
I am not you are, I am speaking of FACTS, you are speaking of opinions, I don`t speak of opinion like you cause that could mean anything. I am speaking of documented facts by IFBB official judges, regardless what you think of the judges they are the standard measurment and we must accept it how it is not how you would have liked it to be based on your opinion
So again these are the FACTS, YES FACTS, Dorian slaughtered the field with perfect score across the board while Ronnie Struggled and lost rounds, fact my friend, this is the true reality, yours is opinion and make belief not reality
-
The truth is this debate will go on for ions.
But consider this, the whole bodybuilding community, and I mean everyone is always talking about how LEGENDARY the 90`s bodybuilding is and how shitty the 2000`s era is and was. Ronnie struggled against a shitty era and Dorian dominated and slaughtered a legendary era. And if you say `Well Coleman won in the 90`s as well, fine but struggled and barely won.
I was going to say that Ronnie's competition was either left over from the 90s or just got their Pro cards in the 90s (Culter, Dex, DJ, Anthony)
and it could be argued that Levrone and Cormier looked their best competing against Ronnie.
Flex was a tossup.
-
I was going to say that Ronnie's competition was either left over from the 90s or just got their Pro cards in the 90s (Culter, Dex, DJ, Anthony)
and it could be argued that Levrone and Cormier looked their best competing against Ronnie.
Flex was a tossup.
Cormier yes, Flex and Kevin NO
-
Cormier yes, Flex and Kevin NO
Kev's legs were down, but he had better-thicker back detail when he competed against Ronnie. Also seemed to come in drier. Of course it was Lil Kev vs Big Kev thing with him.
Flex looked good in 98 and 99 (but 99 he was "Syned" up), and then he fell apart, yet still won the 2000 Arnold.
-
Hey fellas
Haney- 8 Mr. Os
Ronnie- 8 Mr.Os
Dorian-6 Mr.Os
So justify it anyway you want to help you sleep at night, but in the end, people lie but numbers dont even in this glorified beauty contest.
Notice how Dorians whole arguement is sizgraininess and calves, outside of that,
-
I am not you are, I am speaking of FACTS, you are speaking of opinions, I don`t speak of opinion like you cause that could mean anything. I am speaking of documented facts by IFBB official judges, regardless what you think of the judges they are the standard measurment and we must accept it how it is not how you would have liked it to be based on your opinion
So again these are the FACTS, YES FACTS, Dorian slaughtered the field with perfect score across the board while Ronnie Struggled and lost rounds, fact my friend, this is the true reality, yours is opinion and make belief not reality
(http://www.dutchbodybuilding.com/gallery/data/960/paul-dillett-dorian-yates.JPG)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2FkjfNJy5KTLGLUe8_W2L7RnKu9g7goxb2un743q836Ajq4mo&t=1)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmjPWfU_3wPe_fv-4N3ZqDUQru_twwMKw2oNob7_1YbXMRgEUmnQ&t=1)
so those pics i just posted are you saying dorin dominated in those.....
pure fan boyism
-
Hey fellas
Haney- 8 Mr. Os
Ronnie- 8 9 Mr.Os
Dorian-6 Mr.Os
So justify it anyway you want to help you sleep at night, but in the end, people lie but numbers dont even in this glorified beauty contest.
Notice how Dorians whole arguement is sizgraininess and calves, outside of that,
Even with the injuries, he beat Cutlet in 2006, and turned around and pulverized him at the Gran Prix.
-
(http://www.dutchbodybuilding.com/gallery/data/960/paul-dillett-dorian-yates.JPG)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2FkjfNJy5KTLGLUe8_W2L7RnKu9g7goxb2un743q836Ajq4mo&t=1)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmjPWfU_3wPe_fv-4N3ZqDUQru_twwMKw2oNob7_1YbXMRgEUmnQ&t=1)
so those pics i just posted are you saying dorin dominated in those.....
pure fan boyism
No, I am simply stating that the judging panel will give the 93 O version of Dorian a nod over the 98 version of Ronnie which most agree was Ronnie`s best.
Bro I am not a fan of Yates or Coleman, my favorite physique of all time is Shawn Ray, but I am a bodybuilder and I know what judges are after and how they score bodybuilding and that is what I base things on and judges thought Yates was dominant, a head above the rest, that is why they gave him perfect scores.
-
No, I am simply stating that the judging panel will give the 93 O version of Dorian a nod over the 98 version of Ronnie which most agree was Ronnie`s best.
Bro I am not a fan of Yates or Coleman, my favorite physique of all time is Shawn Ray, but I am a bodybuilder and I know what judges are after and how they score bodybuilding and that is what I base things on and judges thought Yates was dominant, a head above the rest, that is why they gave him perfect scores.
you clearly agree with the judges.....
im asking you straight man to man... in those pics
is dorian dominating?
yes or no....
one word answer
-
you clearly agree with the judges.....
im asking you straight man to man... in those pics
is dorian dominating?
yes or no....
one word answer
NO
-
NO
respect..
-
Phil Heath Exclusive Interview Part 2 of 2
WWW.VNM-TV.COM
-
Phil heath
"when we're talking about ronne and dorian.. I say Ronnie all day..
ronnie .. if they competed against each other at their prime aww it would be OVER it would be done!"
-
ND....you are wrong again. Dorian lost the 1991 Mr. O to Haney. Doria was great, but i 1994, 1996, and 1997 he definitely did not dominate the Mr. Olympia. Nasser was better from the front. Fortunately, Nasser never learned to turn aroud and train his back. Dorian also lost to MOMO at the NOC. Phil only says at their best Ronnie would win. I don't even think Dorian has debated this point. However, for conditioning and graininess Dorian is the best of all time. By 2006 and 2007 Ronnie was over forty and injured. Dorian would have gotten smoked in his later years but walked away on top. For that, I respect the man. Same with Haney. Tough to leave when you are the best.
-
Phil heath
"when we're talking about ronne and dorian.. I say Ronnie all day..
ronnie .. if they competed against each other at their prime aww it would be OVER it would be done!"
I wouldn't really say there is too much gravitas in Phil Heath's opinion. Anybody who is willing to thank "God" first of all (at all is a bad sign)for winning a competition over his or her Wife/Husband/Family/Friends is clearly deranged in the head.
-
I wouldn't really say there is too much gravitas in Phil Heath's opinion. Anybody who is willing to thank "God" first of all (at all is a bad sign)for winning a competition over his or her Wife/Husband/Family/Friends is clearly deranged in the head.
Phil made a great point , Ronnie is his hero and a hero to a lot of younger guys who grew up with Ronnie as the Olympia winner and bought all his videos. Dorian was pre-internet from the early 90s there weren't a lot of high quality pics of him or video it's a generational thing
Dorian said of Ronnie and it makes sense , his physique made him a great champion but his videos made him a legend
-
ND....you are wrong again. Dorian lost the 1991 Mr. O to Haney. Doria was great, but i 1994, 1996, and 1997 he definitely did not dominate the Mr. Olympia. Nasser was better from the front. Fortunately, Nasser never learned to turn aroud and train his back. Dorian also lost to MOMO at the NOC. Phil only says at their best Ronnie would win. I don't even think Dorian has debated this point. However, for conditioning and graininess Dorian is the best of all time. By 2006 and 2007 Ronnie was over forty and injured. Dorian would have gotten smoked in his later years but walked away on top. For that, I respect the man. Same with Haney. Tough to leave when you are the best.
Judging is laughable.
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39596&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
-
Judging is laughable.
Are you seriously claiming he should have lost in 1993?
-
Are you seriously claiming he should have lost in 1993?
Yes. But i don't want to get in to a debate about this ND. Oh and on the same website i stumbled upon i found some early pictures of Branch where he looks aesthetic, as you can imagine i was more than a little bit surprised.
-
Yes. But i don't want to get in to a debate about this ND. Oh and on the same website i stumbled upon i found some early pictures of Branch where he looks aesthetic, as you can imagine i was more than a little bit surprised.
Well there is no debate you're just bat-shit crazy. ;D not even Shawn Ray would say he deserved to lose in 1993 , you can argue about 94/97 but 93? seriously :-\
-
Yes. But i don't want to get in to a debate about this ND. Oh and on the same website i stumbled upon i found some early pictures of Branch where he looks aesthetic, as you can imagine i was more than a little bit surprised.
:-\
-
Well there is no debate you're just bat-shit crazy. ;D not even Shawn Ray would say he deserved to lose in 1993 , you can argue about 94/97 but 93? seriously :-\
The picture quality is shit so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt. That's one shame about the older contests, you don't get all the high def pictures.
-
Phil made a great point , Ronnie is his hero and a hero to a lot of younger guys who grew up with Ronnie as the Olympia winner and bought all his videos. Dorian was pre-internet from the early 90s there weren't a lot of high quality pics of him or video it's a generational thing
Dorian said of Ronnie and it makes sense , his physique made him a great champion but his videos made him a legend
Dorian said this?
-
He continues to speak about this ' myth ' that Ronnie was ' unbeatable ' it's simply not true. Ronnie was very beatable and beaten multiple times. Dorian never was
1998 Ronnie was almost beat when he was at his best Olympia that contest was separated by just 3 points to this day still one of the closest Mr Olympias ever
2001 he was beaten in the entire prejudging although he squeaked out another close call
2002 he was beaten in the posing rounds in the night show by Kevin , again another close call
2002 be was soundly beaten by Gunther who outclassed him
2006 he was beaten soundly by Jay
2007 he dropped to 4th place
It's a myth to say Ronnie is unbeatable
Dorian on the other hand NEVER lost a round and finished most of his Olympias with straight firsts.
Ronnie is the king when it comes to bodybuilding , he tied Haney for most Olympia titles and he has the most pro titles of any competitor this alone makes him the GOAT . But that has nothing to do with if he could beat Dorian at his best.
add Phil Heath to the list of Mr. Olympias who said Ronnie would beat Dorian at their prime
Jay Cutler - Flex, April 2009
"He is the best of all time, so to follow him as Mr. Olympia is a real honor."
Dexter Jackson - Flex, April 2009
"He's the greatest ever--hands down."
Phil Heath Exclusive Interview with VNM-TV
"When were talking about Ronnie and Dorian, Id say Ronnie Coleman all day because if they competed against each other at their prime, it would be over, like it would be done, because Ronnie beats Dorian on more mandatory poses."
Samir Bannout An Interview with the Lion of Lebanon (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)
"I saw Ronnie Coleman about three years ago. I had a prince named Prince Yasab Al Trarndy and he came out here to see the show and we went out to Vegas together. We went up to Ronnie's room and Ronnie posed for us and I will tell you I have never seen anything like it in my life in terms of muscle mass and quality."
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/samir_bannout_interview2.htm
-
add Phil Heath to the list of Mr. Olympias who said Ronnie would beat Dorian at their prime
Samir Bannout An Interview with the Lion of Lebanon (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)
"I saw Ronnie Coleman about three years ago. I had a prince named Prince Yasab Al Trarndy and he came out here to see the show and we went out to Vegas together. We went up to Ronnie's room and Ronnie posed for us and I will tell you I have never seen anything like it in my life in terms of muscle mass and quality."
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/samir_bannout_interview2.htm
LMFAO poor Neo reduced to making shit up , Samir NEVER said Ronnie would beat Dorian so you can remove him from the ' list ' here's what Samir has to say about Ronnie ;)
Q ] When people talk of the greatest Olympian's Ronnie's name is usually high on the list. In fact, he is widely regarded as the best bodybuilder of all time.
Samir Bannout : [ A ] I hate to say this but they are blind. People that don't approve of what we are talking about right now are blind. You have to understand. Look, Ronnie
Coleman is probably the most muscular bodybuilder ever. If he could have drawn a better picture of himself on the stage he would have had more appeal, but he did not. He
makes himself look worse
Blind like you and the other Ronnie fanboys ;D
-
Dorian said this?
Yes ???
-
Vic Richards on Romano & Palumbo radio show 2010.
" To say Ronnie Coleman is the best bodybuilder is an insult , he doesn't even come in the top 12 "
;D
-
9-17-11
Dennis James: Phil Heath Looked Best of All Time; Better Than Flex, Ronnie
http://www.flexonline.com/news/olympia/phil-talks
-
Dorian said of Ronnie and it makes sense , his physique made him a great champion but his videos made him a legend
Wow, I lost some respect for Dorian after reading that ^^^^^. Sounds like he's a bit jealous of hearing how Ronnie is a Legend, so he had to come up with a silly reason to say why he thinks Ronnie is a Legend.
Ronnie's physique is what made him a Legend. He's accomplished and set records of what no bodybuilder on stage has done before him and that is what makes him a Legend. The videos are there to remind everyone why he already is a Legend.
-
Wow, I lost some respect for Dorian after reading that ^^^^^. Sounds like he's a bit jealous of hearing how Ronnie is a Legend, so he had to come up with a silly reason to say why he thinks Ronnie is a Legend.
Ronnie's physique is what made him a Legend. He's accomplished and set records of what no bodybuilder on stage has done before him and that is what makes him a Legend. The videos are there to remind everyone why he already is a Legend.
I think you're reading way to much into this. Dorian's always been very complimentary to Ronnie and vice versa
-
I disagree with Phil Heath. He's entitled to his opinion but as far as I'm concerned Dorian Yates took physique development as far as it could possibly go in the 90s, so for that reason I am no longer interested in reading about new bodybuilders or watching the Olympia. After 15 years we have yet to see anyone as good as the Shadow.
-
I think Jay Cutler has a lot of respect for Ronnie as well.
-
I think Jay Cutler has a lot of respect for Ronnie as well.
he does always spoke highly of Ronnie , Ronnie didn't feel the same way about him ;D
-
he does always spoke highly of Ronnie , Ronnie didn't feel the same way about him ;D
I think Ronnie does---Ronnie's ego just doesn't think Jay could beat him (the born with diff genetics comment), but I think Ronnie and Jay have had convos in which Ronnie may have apologized for that comment. Every champion (the hallmark of any champion, rather) must think that no one can beat him...it's the mentality of a champion.
-
LMFAO poor Neo reduced to making shit up , Samir NEVER said Ronnie would beat Dorian so you can remove him from the ' list ' here's what Samir has to say about Ronnie
Q ] When people talk of the greatest Olympian's Ronnie's name is usually high on the list. In fact, he is widely regarded as the best bodybuilder of all time.
Samir Bannout : [ A ] I hate to say this but they are blind. People that don't approve of what we are talking about right now are blind. You have to understand. Look, Ronnie
Coleman is probably the most muscular bodybuilder ever. If he could have drawn a better picture of himself on the stage he would have had more appeal, but he did not. He
makes himself look worse
Blind like you and the other Ronnie fanboys
poor ND can't read. I will post the quote again
Samir Bannout An Interview with the Lion of Lebanon (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)
"I saw Ronnie Coleman about three years ago. I had a prince named Prince Yasab Al Trarndy and he came out here to see the show and we went out to Vegas together. We went up to Ronnie's room and Ronnie posed for us and I will tell you I have never seen anything like it in my life in terms of muscle mass and quality."
if we remove muscle mass and quality from the criteria, what else does that leave for Dorian to beat Ronnie? ???
-
Vic Richards on Romano & Palumbo radio show 2010.
" To say Ronnie Coleman is the best bodybuilder is an insult , he doesn't even come in the top 12 "
bwahaha, quoting Vic Richards now are we? The guy couldn't even turn pro. What next? You're going to quote Greg Valvolino?
-
poor ND can't read. I will post the quote again
Samir Bannout An Interview with the Lion of Lebanon (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)
"I saw Ronnie Coleman about three years ago. I had a prince named Prince Yasab Al Trarndy and he came out here to see the show and we went out to Vegas together. We went up to Ronnie's room and Ronnie posed for us and I will tell you I have never seen anything like it in my life in terms of muscle mass and quality."
if we remove muscle mass and quality from the criteria, what else does that leave for Dorian to beat Ronnie? ???
Get back to me when he says Ronnie Coleman would beat Dorian in a contest ;) until then
Q ] When people talk of the greatest Olympian's Ronnie's name is usually high on the list. In fact, he is widely regarded as the best bodybuilder of all time.
Samir Bannout : [ A ] I hate to say this but they are blind. People that don't approve of what we are talking about right now are blind. You have to understand. Look, Ronnie
Coleman is probably the most muscular bodybuilder ever. If he could have drawn a better picture of himself on the stage he would have had more appeal, but he did not. He
makes himself look worse
-
bwahaha, quoting Vic Richards now are we? The guy couldn't even turn pro. What next? You're going to quote Greg Valvolino?
Or Ryan Mackie :-\
-
^^^ meltdown ;)
Samir Bannout An Interview with the Lion of Lebanon (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)
"Ronnie posed for us and I will tell you I have never seen anything like it in my life in terms of muscle mass and quality."
-
^^^ meltdown ;)
Samir Bannout An Interview with the Lion of Lebanon (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)
"Ronnie posed for us and I will tell you I have never seen anything like it in my life in terms of muscle mass and quality."
Oh I thought you were gonna post the quote from him saying he would beat Dorian at his best ;) get back to me when you do. 8)
-
Or Ryan Mackie
the last time you quoted a laughable bodybuilding "expert" was a few posts ago
show me the last time I quoted Ryan Mackie. Go ahead. If you fail to deliver, then you are permanently my b*tch ;)
-
the last time you quoted a no name in bodybuilding was a few posts ago
show me the last time I quoted Ryan Mackie. I'm calling you out. If you fail to deliver, then you are permanently my b*tch ;)
Victor Richards is hardly a ' no name ' he's a fuck of a lot more well known than Ryan Mackie ;)
doesn't matter when you posted all that matters is you did and ' proof ' ::)
-
Oh I thought you were gonna post the quote from him saying he would beat Dorian at his best get back to me when you do.
epic denial, lol. Samir has never seen anyone with Ronnie's level of muscle mass and quality, and he competed against the best ;)
-
Victor Richards is hardly a ' no name ' he's a fuck of a lot more well known than Ryan Mackie
doesn't matter when you posted all that matters is you did and ' proof '
I'm waiting ;)
-
epic denial, lol. Samir has never seen anyone with Ronnie's level of muscle mass and quality, and he competed against the best ;)
Epic trying to claim Samir said Ronnie would beat Dorian
I'm waiting
Ironically so and I for the quote from Samir saying Ronnie would beat Dorian
;)
Samir Bannout
( Jay Cutler ) His back is detailed and big, but it does not match up well against Ronnie, who has the second-best back in the history of bodybuilding behind the great Dorian Yates.
Ronnie Coleman
still loling at Ryan Mackie as a quotable source ;D
-
Epic trying to claim Samir said Ronnie would beat Dorian
Ironically so and I for the quote from Samir saying Ronnie would beat Dorian
Samir Bannout
( Jay Cutler ) His back is detailed and big, but it does not match up well against Ronnie, who has the second-best back in the history of bodybuilding behind the great Dorian Yates.
Ronnie Coleman
still loling at Ryan Mackie as a quotable source
uh huh, lol, keep looking for excuses ;)
-
uh huh, lol, keep looking for excuses ;)
yeah I though so fanboy ;)
Victor Richards is a nobody but Ryan Mackie is quotable LMFAO
-
yeah I though so fanboy
Victor Richards is a nobody but Ryan Mackie is quotable LMFAO
where did I quote Ryan Mackie? lol. I asked you to show me and you failed to deliver. I stopped quoting him a long time ago meanwhile you're still using laughable "bodybuilding experts" and living in the past ;)
delusional fanboy
-
where did I quote Ryan Mackie? lol. I asked you to show me and you failed to deliver. I stopped quoting him a long time ago meanwhile you're still using laughable "bodybuilding experts" and living in the past ;)
delusional fanboy
It doesn't matter when , you stopped because you got laughed at , you're a hypocrite who used Ryan Mackie and Greg Valentino as ' experts ' and you're deduced to making shit up with edited quotes and quotes that don't even say what you're trying prove , couple that with you getting owned by Kevin Horton for your fanboy comparisons and you're reduced to trolling and you're even at good at that.
Kevin Horton owned you so badly you didn't even bother to try and formulate a response lol same shit Neo comes late to the thread tries so hard to be topical and act like he knows what he;'s talking about gets his nose rubbed in his own shit nothing new ;D
Run along and fetch that quote fanboy ;) your master is waiting.
-
I think you're reading way to much into this. Dorian's always been very complimentary to Ronnie and vice versa
"Dorian said of Ronnie and it makes sense , his physique made him a great champion but his videos made him a legend."
"His physique made him a great Champion" but "His videos made him a legend". Those are two different things.
Dorian may have worded it badly, but it still sounds bad.
-
"Dorian said of Ronnie and it makes sense , his physique made him a great champion but his videos made him a legend."
"His physique made him a great Champion" but "His videos made him a legend". Those are two different things.
Dorian may have worded it badly, but it still sounds bad.
I dont see anything bad in that quote. It sounds like he's saying his physique made him a great champion, and his videos cemented him as legend (probably referring to his training videos).
Not sure how you're getting anything derogatory towards Ronnie in that quote?
-
I dont see anything bad in that quote. It sounds like he's saying his physique made him a great champion, and his videos cemented him as legend (probably referring to his training videos).
Not sure how you're getting anything derogatory towards Ronnie in that quote?
Dorian is saying two different things in his quote. In Dorian's quote he is saying:
1) Ronnie's physique made him a great champion.
2) But it's because of his videos that MADE him a legend.
So I'm asking, isn't Ronnie a legend without his videos? I would think so. Isn't Dorian a legend without his videos? I would also think so.