Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: millineum man on February 20, 2014, 09:34:43 PM
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Guys, I'd like to get some veteran opinions. Let's say you maxed out your natural potential by putting the work in the gym and out. Focusing on the basics(Squats and Deads over 400+lbs for reps, DB Benches with 130's for reps, and 1 Arm Rows with 140's). Would Test@250mgs/wk be a good place to start? Yes or no? Have any of you tried 250mgs of Test/wk and made substantial progress? I'm going to stay on at least 6 months, either way.
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sure you'll grow. that's about double your natural production. should put you well above 1200ng.
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of course.
great first cycle.
low dose is the way to go.
it helps prevent you from being "all drugs" for the most part.
at those dose you wont need AI's as much.
its a good base to also learn how to train differently when on gear.
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Guys, I'd like to get some veteran opinions. Let's say you maxed out your natural potential by putting the work in the gym and out. Focusing on the basics(Squats and Deads over 400+lbs for reps, DB Benches with 130's for reps, and 1 Arm Rows with 140's). Would Test@250mgs/wk be a good place to start? Yes or no? Have any of you tried 250mgs of Test/wk and made substantial progress? I'm going to stay on at least 6 months, either way.
should've read the whole thing...
squats and deads.. and db benches and 1 arm rows. 'for reps'.. does that mean 2-4 reps? that's fine and dandy for a powerlifter, but if you want to grow, you'll probably see better results if you pull a 100lbs off the bar and hit it for a few sets of 8-12. not saying what you're doing isn't working for you, but if you wanna grow ( I dunno what your goals are) your body will most likely respond better to more volume (not "high" volume.. i'd just stay away from the 2-4 rep stuff for the most part) while on 'gear'.
I started at 100mg/wk for the first cycle.. I should've done double.. second cycle was 250/wk, and so on. I made great gains that I absolutely noticed a difference when I went off.
it's your first cycle, i'd make the most of it and add something else probably deca at 1cc (200-300mg/wk) per week as long as you're on the test. you'll find that 200-300mg deca wont' do jack shit after a couple years of using anabolics though. lol.
I think after your first 6 month cycle, you'll be wishing you could go back and use 500mg/wk or use deca as well, instead of just the 250/wk test.
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Absolutely. You're over 40, correct? You'll feel it even more.
Definitely enough to get the good effects of juice with minimal sides. If you feel plucky you can toss an oral or fast-acting steroid in here or there for 4 weeks, but you can run the 250 indefinitely
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of course.
great first cycle.
low dose is the way to go.
it helps prevent you from being "all drugs" for the most part.
at those dose you wont need AI's as much.
its a good base to also learn how to train differently when on gear.
should've read the whole thing...
squats and deads.. and db benches and 1 arm rows. 'for reps'.. does that mean 2-4 reps? that's fine and dandy for a powerlifter, but if you want to grow, you'll probably see better results if you pull a 100lbs off the bar and hit it for a few sets of 8-12. not saying what you're doing isn't working for you, but if you wanna grow ( I dunno what your goals are) your body will most likely respond better to more volume (not "high" volume.. i'd just stay away from the 2-4 rep stuff for the most part) while on 'gear'.
I started at 100mg/wk for the first cycle.. I should've done double.. second cycle was 250/wk, and so on. I made great gains that I absolutely noticed a difference when I went off.
it's your first cycle, i'd make the most of it and add something else probably deca at 1cc (200-300mg/wk) per week as long as you're on the test. you'll find that 200-300mg deca wont' do jack shit after a couple years of using anabolics though. lol.
I think after your first 6 month cycle, you'll be wishing you could go back and use 500mg/wk or use deca as well, instead of just the 250/wk test.
Yeah I should of elaborated more. But thats what I was saying regarding rep ranges. "pump" exercises are best for gear w a good amount of volume.
heavy and lower reps is optimal for natural imo
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should've read the whole thing...
squats and deads.. and db benches and 1 arm rows. 'for reps'.. does that mean 2-4 reps? that's fine and dandy for a powerlifter, but if you want to grow, you'll probably see better results if you pull a 100lbs off the bar and hit it for a few sets of 8-12. not saying what you're doing isn't working for you, but if you wanna grow ( I dunno what your goals are) your body will most likely respond better to more volume (not "high" volume.. i'd just stay away from the 2-4 rep stuff for the most part) while on 'gear'.
I started at 100mg/wk for the first cycle.. I should've done double.. second cycle was 250/wk, and so on. I made great gains that I absolutely noticed a difference when I went off.
it's your first cycle, i'd make the most of it and add something else probably deca at 1cc (200-300mg/wk) per week as long as you're on the test. you'll find that 200-300mg deca wont' do jack shit after a couple years of using anabolics though. lol.
I think after your first 6 month cycle, you'll be wishing you could go back and use 500mg/wk or use deca as well, instead of just the 250/wk test.
ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.
What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?
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ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.
What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?
take the money you would throw at deca and buy more test and add some dbol for the first month or so
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ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.
What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?
that's up to you. use as much as you'd like or can afford.
there's no rule that says you need to increase the dose every cycle. obviously, the more you use, the easier it is to make and maintain gains.
I generally use the same dose and have for a long time when 'on'. none of this 'increase it by 50mg/wk each cycle' type of stuff.. if that were really needed, we'd have guys using 30g/wk who've been using for 20+ years.
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Here's my theory...
Since you have a good natural foundation, for now I would try cycling instead of staying on for such a long time.
Get the most out of your first cycle while still keeping the dosages on the low-moderate side. Throw in some dbol for the first 5 weeks from 20-30mgs daily. Run some test at 250mg and move it up to 500mgs depending on how you respond for 12-15 weeks total. Use hcg and have your nuts up and running. See how much you retain and then make your choice if you wanna stay on long term.
You have a solid foundation... you don't need to stay on permanently to be yolked. This is what separates you from most people here, on the net, and IRL. However, most the people giving you advice for long term usage will lack that foundation you have... so you need to keep that in mind.
If you 'plan' to run 250mgs a week for 6 months whats gonna happen is you're gonna get the bulk of your gains in the first 3 months...and you're gonna end up increasing the dosage later on wishing you would have made the most out of those first 3 months. Might as well cycle like I said above and take advantage of those famous 'first cycle gains'.... then get off and be healthier for it. Worst case scenario with my plan? you end up cruising on trt dosages which is basically in line with your original plan anyway. Worst case scenario with a 6 month cycle? you wish you could have went back in time and made the most of those first cycle gains... only there's no time machine drug.
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Absolutely. You're over 40, correct? You'll feel it even more.
Definitely enough to get the good effects of juice with minimal sides. If you feel plucky you can toss an oral or fast-acting steroid in here or there for 4 weeks, but you can run the 250 indefinitely
Yes, sir. Soon to be 40 next month. 6'3" 235lbs and 8-9% bf. My aim is more of a "Men's Physique" type than all out mass if that makes any sense.
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Here's my theory...
Since you have a good natural foundation, for now I would try cycling instead of staying on for such a long time.
Get the most out of your first cycle while still keeping the dosages on the low-moderate side. Throw in some dbol for the first 5 weeks from 20-30mgs daily. Run some test at 250mg and move it up to 500mgs depending on how you respond for 12-15 weeks total. Use hcg and have your nuts up and running. See how much you retain and then make your choice if you wanna stay on long term.
You have a solid foundation... you don't need to stay on permanently to be yolked. This is what separates you from most people here, on the net, and IRL. However, most the people giving you advice for long term usage will lack that foundation you have... so you need to keep that in mind.
If you 'plan' to run 250mgs a week for 6 months whats gonna happen is you're gonna get the bulk of your gains in the first 3 months...and you're gonna end up increasing the dosage later on wishing you would have made the most out of those first 3 months. Might as well cycle like I said above and take advantage of those famous 'first cycle gains'.... then get off and be healthier for it. Worst case scenario with my plan? you end up cruising on trt dosages which is basically in line with your original plan anyway. Worst case scenario with a 6 month cycle? you wish you could have went back in time and made the most of those first cycle gains... only there's no time machine drug.
In your opinion, it's better to start with 500mgs of Test/wk along with 20-30mgs Dbol/ed for the first 5 weeks to get "more bang for the buck"? Or 250mgs of Test/wk with the Dbol?
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In your opinion, it's better to start with 500mgs of Test/wk along with 20-30mgs Dbol/ed for the first 5 weeks to get "more bang for the buck"? Or 250mgs of Test/wk with the Dbol?
If you plan on cycling and want to maximize your gains, I would jump right in at 500mgs. If you have any estro issues thats why we have ancillaries. (to pull from ESF's book)
Your gains will be dosage dependent.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81.
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.
Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.
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You didn't talk about your goals?
You mention how much you lift... are you a strength athlete? If so then my theory and advice will be different. Strength athletes should do lower dosages unless they compete in the fatso division.
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You didn't talk about your goals?
You mention how much you lift... are you a strength athlete? If so then my theory and advice will be different. Strength athletes should do lower dosages unless they compete in the fatso division.
No, not at all. Just a gym rat that wants to grow and stay on the dry side without a lot of water bloat. If I had to put a number out there, my goal is 12-15lbs of LBM over 20-24 weeks or 250lbs 9% bf. After that point, I'm thinking about dropping down to a TRT dose(150mgs of Test/wk) for a break.
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No, not at all. Just a gym rat that wants to grow and stay on the dry side without a lot of water bloat. If I had to put a number out there, my goal is 10-12lbs of LBM over 20-24 weeks. After that point, I'm thinking about dropping down to a TRT dose(150mgs of Test/wk) for a break.
If you don't want the dbol bloat then either don't run it or use ancillaries(esf can help recommend)... but 500mgs of test should be ok. If not, thats what are for ancillaries.
This study has shown that there is no difference in water gains between 300mgs and 600mgs. There is however a significant difference in LBM gain. LBM increased by 11.7 lb @ 300mgs and 18.7 lb @ 600mgs.
You wanna GETBIG or what? ;)
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172
To determine whether the apparent changes in fat-free mass by DEXA scan and underwater weighing represented water retention, we measured total body water and compared the ratios of total body water to fat-free mass before and after treatment in each group. The ratios of total body water to fat-free mass by underwater weighing did not significantly change with treatment in any treatment group (Table 3), indicating that the apparent increase in fat-free mass measured by underwater weighing did not represent water retention in excess of that associated with protein accretion.
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what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol? no bloating with the same gains right?
and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?
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what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol? no bloating with the same gains right?
and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?
The issue with tbol and anavar is wondering if it's actually legit. ;D
But yes, if not dbol at beginning run a different oral. Long ester Tests take a while to kick in so use an oral to jump start.
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what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol? no bloating with the same gains right?
and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?
I'm all for it.
I'm not a fan of using the weaker drugs just because they're 'safer'. you're better off using 25mg/day of tren as opposed to 100mg/day or primo or var.
not much of a fan of tbol. it was hyped for years before IP started producing it again around 01 or something... it was like the holy grail, some exotic drug that only top level pros had access to and was responsible for the 'pro look' or some nonsense.
why use var when you can use methyltrienolone?
why use masteron when you can use tren?
why use eq when you can use tren/deca/npp?
why use primo when you can use tren/deca/npp?
why use winstrol when you can use masteron/methyltrienolone?
why use proviron when you can use masteron?
stick to the simple stuff that works all the time. test, tren, deca/npp, dbol/drol/methyltrienolone... and possibly masteron or proviron for specific effects/purposes.
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why use var when you can use methyltrienolone?
why use masteron when you can use tren?
why use eq when you can use tren/deca/npp?
why use primo when you can use tren/deca/npp?
why use winstrol when you can use masteron/methyltrienolone?
why use proviron when you can use masteron?
ESF, you could say it shorter; "why use others when you can use tren?" ;D
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ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.
What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?
Stop getting carried away, you will gain on 250mgs Test.
Leave it at that for your first course.
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well, you can listen to wolfox who has never touched a steroid in his life(sorry bro)
or you cn listen to esfitness who runs 5gramms of gear and is definitely definitely smaller than i am even when off gear,m not joking.
i will rarely ever post any such advice or tips anymore, because ppl are just idiots, so be it.
you can use whatever you want, tren, why not i hear some justify some kind hrt use of that, lol.
or you can do the smartest thing and just run 200mg test weekly for half yer and see how tht goes.
beyond that, well, do you want to go beyond that?
what do you want?
ah this topic is hugely annoying, so im out.
beware of listening to folks who never took steroids, or who megadose and look raher like nothing.
after more than a decade the one conclusion for me is, the high dosage experiments were the most stupid thing to do, greed in the wrong place.
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If you are talking about 250mg of pharmacy testosterone yes very good.
If from 10ml vials made in dundgeon with no sanitary conditions and rat semen floating around inside then no, go natural.
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If you are talking about 250mg of pharmacy testosterone yes very good.
If from 10ml vials made in dundgeon with no sanitary conditions and rat semen floating around inside then no, go natural.
I lol'd at rat semen.
solid post.
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what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol? no bloating with the same gains right?
and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?
Tbol is great stuff.... kinda like a cross between dbol and anavar if i had to describe it.
Pretty easy to find legit from a ugl, or else you can just buy a Halodrol-clone prohormone from Amazon. Hdrol is pretty much the same thing as tbol
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Also this:
beware of listening to folks who never took steroids, or who megadose and look raher like nothing.
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Tbol is great stuff.... kinda like a cross between dbol and anavar if i had to describe it.
Pretty easy to find legit from a ugl, or else you can just buy a Halodrol-clone prohormone from Amazon. Hdrol is pretty much the same thing as tbol
I think the conversion is pretty low, but halodrol in on itself is great in a cycle. Behaves like var kind of. No water decent strength and you can a solid 8 weeks no prob.
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i wouldnt play down orals like that, in general you hear the eldr ppl who cant tolerate any orals nomore, its the same with many.
you dont feel the abuse the liver takes, only when doing a bloodtest you see the results and say wow.
lets list the orals:
dbol:all bloof, extremly high estrogen conversion ratio, good chance for btichtitts, liver toxic
winny:epic dht hairloss, crashes cholesterol levels, liver toxic even if injected
anadrol:all bloof, shouldnt convert to estrogen, but sure has all the signs, top bitchtits candidtate, liver toxic
anavar:well if you get real ones, very expensive, not to be underestmate liver toxicity simply bc plenty mgs are needed to make it work.strenght increase as positive.hair thining possible.
halotestin, well lets not even go there.
the point is, you cant run any of them year round.wh bother.
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i wouldnt play down orals like that, in general you hear the eldr ppl who cant tolerate any orals nomore, its the same with many.
you dont feel the abuse the liver takes, only when doing a bloodtest you see the results and say wow.
lets list the orals:
dbol:all bloof, extremly high estrogen conversion ratio, good chance for btichtitts, liver toxic
winny:epic dht hairloss, crashes cholesterol levels, liver toxic even if injected
anadrol:all bloof, shouldnt convert to estrogen, but sure has all the signs, top bitchtits candidtate, liver toxic
anavar:well if you get real ones, very expensive, not to be underestmate liver toxicity simply bc plenty mgs are needed to make it work.strenght increase as positive.hair thining possible.
halotestin, well lets not even go there.
the point is, you cant run any of them year round.wh bother.
totally agree. terrible for you for the most part. even the bullshit PH's that arent methylated. Most of them attack your hair big time.
I love my hair. thats why I have never and will never run over a half gram of T and do lowest possible doses with all orals. Everytime.
were low dose guys around here.
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totally agree. terrible for you for the most part. even the bullshit PH's that arent methylated. Most of them attack your hair big time.
I love my hair. thats why I have never and will never run over a half gram of T and do lowest possible doses with all orals. Everytime.
were low dose guys around here.
best to have to only as much as needed approach.
instead of as much as possible.
and setting a realistic goal upfront.
however i pity a bit the fools who believe in being on and off, blssting then going off, and wishing to build a seriosu physique.
this is something one can do when they have their mass goals met.or when you dont feel like training for few months, or bc health reasons, thats when you go off.
chose the peds wisely, dont shot up the liver for bit bloat, the liver regulated the whole food metabolism.
hair, well, atleast with bit test youre as safe as can be, if it falls out then, would anyway, and can fix with transplant.
then, is limp dick worth having in this quest.so many questions.
health?matter of fact is most ppl on pharmacy test 500mg weekly will have bloodpressure issues from even slightest too much or wrong foods.
then i see here, tren for first cycle.why not.yeah right, why not drink ones own piss along with with that.
i see further, start at 500mgs test, for first cycle.oh brother, why not start on a gramm.
heres me whos hasnt gone over 300weekly in 10years, outsizing many of the megadosers, so there must be more to it than just gear.
many who try to override genetic response with extra gear will never be heard of in the gym again, the result wil be disapoint, bit more acne on the shoulders, bit more bloof under the skin,and bit more dependency for even higher doses, as the lower ones will now do fuck all anymore.
remember, 500mg test is the swet spot where health issues come along.yes bloat is already a health issue.no sane mind would consider that to be normal,would they :D
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300mgs of legit stuff is more than enough to get the girls.
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300mgs of legit stuff is more than enough to get the girls.
yea and there will be the fools who will say but they want to be huuuuge and then shoot gramms and dont grow anyway.
receptors shot,in the sense that 300weekly will feel like natural or worse,etcetc.
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best to have to only as much as needed approach.
instead of as much as possible.
and setting a realistic goal upfront.
however i pity a bit the fools who believe in being on and off, blssting then going off, and wishing to build a seriosu physique.
this is something one can do when they have their mass goals met.or when you dont feel like training for few months, or bc health reasons, thats when you go off.
chose the peds wisely, dont shot up the liver for bit bloat, the liver regulated the whole food metabolism.
hair, well, atleast with bit test youre as safe as can be, if it falls out then, would anyway, and can fix with transplant.
then, is limp dick worth having in this quest.so many questions.
health?matter of fact is most ppl on pharmacy test 500mg weekly will have bloodpressure issues from even slightest too much or wrong foods.
then i see here, tren for first cycle.why not.yeah right, why not drink ones own piss along with with that.
i see further, start at 500mgs test, for first cycle.oh brother, why not start on a gramm.
heres me whos hasnt gone over 300weekly in 10years, outsizing many of the megadosers, so there must be more to it than just gear.
many who try to override genetic response with extra gear will never be heard of in the gym again, the result wil be disapoint, bit more acne on the shoulders, bit more bloof under the skin,and bit more dependency for even higher doses, as the lower ones will now do fuck all anymore.
remember, 500mg test is the swet spot where health issues come along.yes bloat is already a health issue.no sane mind would consider that to be normal,would they :D
I do think im gonna bump it up to a half gram this summer, however I dont get pharma gear.
I bolded that quote for truth, and the truth is I dont think ill ever be shredded by your definition. I dont care about being under 10. As long as i have abs, even if theyre blurry or have fat inbetween them I dont care. Having abs automatically puts me above most people (remember, I live in southern california, not europe). I go to my community pool and i get all eyes from having big ass arms a flat stomach. Thats all I really need here. shave my chest, get tan and boom, top 5% of everyone at the beach or in vegas.
easy to maintain, and I dont have to starve.
sidenote : lol at these delusionites that are gonna get "shredded" on 2500 cals lol oh brother never going to happen.
my tune will change if i ever make it out to europe though.
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galeniko, did You have time in Your steroids experience when you was abusing gear? I mean high doses or long term use harash steroids like tren ( gh15 method and 12 months on Trenbolona Acetata ;D ) for example, etc? :)
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galeniko, did You have time in Your steroids experience when you was abusing gear? I mean high doses or long term use harash steroids like tren ( gh15 method and 12 months on Trenbolona Acetata ;D ) for example, etc? :)
yeah, when age 20-25.
wasnt worth it.
thicker back, fuller shoulders, bigger legs.
bigger midsection and huge ass face.
some 40lbs heavier than now, not as ripped, most extra weight in gut.
ripped vs ripped, basicaly the same.
sure it helped,now i can maintain size on childplay doses.
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yeah, when age 20-25.
wasnt worth it.
thicker back, fuller shoulders, bigger legs.
bigger midsection and huge ass face.
some 40lbs heavier than now, not as ripped, most extra weight in gut.
ripped vs ripped, basicaly the same.
sure it helped,now i can maintain size on childplay doses.
Thanks for sincerity :)
I heard that the more experienced ( longer use, maybe more dose use on the start way with steroids... ) you are with gear the better results you can have from lower doses in future.
I think from the last few months/years people have streak to use high doses becouse in Internet is more and more morons how i.e GH15 who claim that they are telling to us true about "what is real bodybuilding". I give for example GH15 becouse he is the most known i think... It's easy to observe how Trenbolone become popular after his advices in forums. WTF, who normal ( i mean competitor in National / Pro level or someone who is earning money on bodybuilding... ) is running this compound in high dose ( i mean 500mg week+ for example ) over several dozen month without going off with this compound? I don't think there is any who is doing it other than gym rats who can get this same results from more healthy compounds in lower doses...
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best to have to only as much as needed approach.
instead of as much as possible.
and setting a realistic goal upfront.
however i pity a bit the fools who believe in being on and off, blssting then going off, and wishing to build a seriosu physique.
this is something one can do when they have their mass goals met.or when you dont feel like training for few months, or bc health reasons, thats when you go off.
chose the peds wisely, dont shot up the liver for bit bloat, the liver regulated the whole food metabolism.
hair, well, atleast with bit test youre as safe as can be, if it falls out then, would anyway, and can fix with transplant.
then, is limp dick worth having in this quest.so many questions.
health?matter of fact is most ppl on pharmacy test 500mg weekly will have bloodpressure issues from even slightest too much or wrong foods.
then i see here, tren for first cycle.why not.yeah right, why not drink ones own piss along with with that.
i see further, start at 500mgs test, for first cycle.oh brother, why not start on a gramm.
heres me whos hasnt gone over 300weekly in 10years, outsizing many of the megadosers, so there must be more to it than just gear.
many who try to override genetic response with extra gear will never be heard of in the gym again, the result wil be disapoint, bit more acne on the shoulders, bit more bloof under the skin,and bit more dependency for even higher doses, as the lower ones will now do fuck all anymore.
remember, 500mg test is the swet spot where health issues come along.yes bloat is already a health issue.no sane mind would consider that to be normal,would they :D
Hey Galeniko,
You sounds very wise to me. i always appreciate your comments very much ;)
How do you know this everything? many years experience?
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@Galeniko: I need your advise for the following please.
I schedule the following"
1 cycle:
10 weeks
TestE 300 mg
Deca 125 (The little deca i want to use because for my schpulder pain/injury or atrose)
Good doses? and no healthy issues?
PCT: w 13/14 14 days Clomid 50 mg per day
HCG w1-10 2X250 IU
What do you think?
Thanks in advance
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Thanks for sincerity :)
I heard that the more experienced ( longer use, maybe more dose use on the start way with steroids... ) you are with gear the better results you can have from lower doses in future.
I think from the last few months/years people have streak to use high doses becouse in Internet is more and more morons how i.e GH15 who claim that they are telling to us true about "what is real bodybuilding". I give for example GH15 becouse he is the most known i think... It's easy to observe how Trenbolone become popular after his advices in forums. WTF, who normal ( i mean competitor in National / Pro level or someone who is earning money on bodybuilding... ) is running this compound in high dose ( i mean 500mg week+ for example ) over several dozen month without going off with this compound? I don't think there is any who is doing it other than gym rats who can get this same results from more healthy compounds in lower doses...
well, sure a heavyweight competitor(!) will have to be on a gramm ,give or take.
but this doesnt mean a bloody beginner should start on that dose.or get to that dose within a year,even.
or start on 500mg test first cycle.this is plan stupid.
if 200mg deca weekly will give gains to newcomer, why would they take more.
Hey Galeniko,
You sounds very wise to me. i always appreciate your comments very much ;)
How do you know this everything? many years experience?
yes brother ,years of experience and seen the ppl come and go.
few are left over, im still here.healthy,jacked,all good.hell even my hair is still there ;D
i seen the high dosage guys coming and going.failing.one after the other.they ask me man what you take, i tell them 1 test but always, they no believe, bc they on 10times more.
they start lifting, por diet ,2gramms gear, and well nothing happens.all acne.
?
they go off and going off 2 gramms is rdiculously terrible, so bad that many never return, also they open all dors to side efects.for what?
sure the pro sized ppl take plenty. not as much as i read on the internet,though, but anyway,they didnt start out like that.
they built the dose up slowly.
listen to those who look best, who look good year round, for years, never listen to anonymous internet personas.the single one reason why they dont show pics is bc they look like shit
none of that "im running for presdient maybe and cant show pics" is of any value.
and lol dont listen to anyone whos yet to do a cycle.
@Galeniko: I need your advise for the following please.
I schedule the following"
1 cycle:
10 weeks
TestE 300 mg
Deca 125 (The little deca i want to use because for my schpulder pain/injury or atrose)
Good doses? and no healthy issues?
PCT: w 13/14 14 days Clomid 50 mg per day
HCG w1-10 2X250 IU
What do you think?
Thanks in advance
man,lol, drop the pct, and run that for the whole year,no kidding
10weeks is too little to even kick in truly for the 2 compounds,esp deca.
all year.youre not risking your health with this.its a mild perfetly sane cycle.run it for a year and see where you get.that way you musntnt concern yourself with what next,you know what you do the next 52 weeks.
perfect doses, good choices.
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Yea, galeniko has gift to prevail on ;D ;D
I thought sometimes ago to belive in gh15 method and i wanted to run test 250mg week + tren 350-525mg week straight 52 weeks but i red a lot of posts which author was galeniko and i change my line becouse he don't approve it :)
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well, you can listen to wolfox who has never touched a steroid in his life(sorry bro)
ah this topic is hugely annoying, so im out.
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Its all good brother. The science, logic and research are all on my side. Also, many experienced vets in BODYBUIlDING agree with my recommendation for a first cycle. Actually, most bodybuilders do.
You don't know much about giving advice to people with good foundations. You were 18 when you first started abusing steroids. (sorry bro but I gotta be honest)
This is what I can almost guarantee with the TS...he will start at 250 then up the dosage then regret he didn't start off higher for the first 3 months. This has happened with quite a few of the guys you advised here who I have talked with privately. They all wish they would have started off moderate then cruised. The science(note:I'm the only one using science studies here) posted shows gains are dose dependant. Does the TS wanna GETBIG or what? Make the most out of the first cycle!
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What is different about the first cycle that necessitates using a big dose?
Also, he's talked about wanting to stay on for 6+ months, not just do a 10 week cycle. 250mgs is essentially enhanced TRT and can be run indefinitely for most people. 500mg is where the body starts to get taxed...
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Its all good brother. The science, logic and research are all on my side. Also, many experienced vets in BODYBUIlDING agree with my recommendation for a first cycle. Actually, most bodybuilders do.
You don't know much about giving advice to people with good foundations. You were 18 when you first started abusing steroids. (sorry bro but I gotta be honest)
This is what I can almost guarantee with the TS...he will start at 250 then up the dosage then regret he didn't start off higher for the first 3 months. This has happened with quite a few of the guys you advised here who I have talked with privately. They all wish they would have started off moderate then cruised. The science(note:I'm the only one using science studies here) posted shows gains are dose dependant. Does the TS wanna GETBIG or what? Make the most out of the first cycle!
You really can't recommend anything until you take the plunge and experiment for yourself.. Your going off of what other people say and google..no disrespect man but it's the truth..this guy can grow off of 250mgs with strict diet and hard work...especially on 6 month cycle. It will be much higher than his natural levels..I have personally done this a few times.. The guy already has the size.. People fail to realize it's more about diet and training..500mgs will yield great grains yes but he may not need it.. My first ever test cycle I only used 300mg of us pharm grade test a week and was at 17 years old and I gained 15 pounds of clean weight and strength was through the roof..
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Its all good brother. The science, logic and research are all on my side. Also, many experienced vets in BODYBUIlDING agree with my recommendation for a first cycle. Actually, most bodybuilders do.
You don't know much about giving advice to people with good foundations. You were 18 when you first started abusing steroids. (sorry bro but I gotta be honest)
This is what I can almost guarantee with the TS...he will start at 250 then up the dosage then regret he didn't start off higher for the first 3 months. This has happened with quite a few of the guys you advised here who I have talked with privately. They all wish they would have started off moderate then cruised. The science(note:I'm the only one using science studies here) posted shows gains are dose dependant. Does the TS wanna GETBIG or what? Make the most out of the first cycle!
Dont listen to this fuckwit, he talks about stories hes heard rather than experiences he's had
Listen to Gal, he has walked the walk.
So have I by the way. ;)
250mgs of test for a year is better than 2x 12 weeks of 3gms a week.
Do what you want to do, as Gal says people seldom listen, you have to learn for yourself.
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What is different about the first cycle that necessitates using a big dose?
Also, he's talked about wanting to stay on for 6+ months, not just do a 10 week cycle. 250mgs is essentially enhanced TRT and can be run indefinitely for most people. 500mg is where the body starts to get taxed...
Yea bro I agree.. I have absolutely zero side effects at 250mgs.. 500mgs is where it starts to tax.. I do have slight increase in rbc on 250mgs but that's it.. I have become religious with blood donations recently
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Yea bro I agree.. I have absolutely zero side effects at 250mgs.. 500mgs is where it starts to tax.. I do have slight increase in rbc on 250mgs but that's it.. I have become religious with blood donations recently
250mgs a week no problems hard vascular training is great, 500mgs = bloated and watery and look shitty.
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I do agree that is the case with newbies.. But With very strict diet and cardio and maybe .25mg of arimidex on Monday and Thursday I have been very hardened up on 500mgs of test...that's just me though.. It does depend on the person and if they can get in tune with their body.. The scale is the worst thing to look at.. It's all about the mirror
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galeniko:
do you think dose should be higher when cutting e.g. 1.5 amps test a week when dieting vs 1 amp when eating more?
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You really can't recommend anything until you take the plunge and experiment for yourself.. Your going off of what other people say and google..no disrespect man but it's the truth..this guy can grow off of 250mgs with strict diet and hard work...especially on 6 month cycle. It will be much higher than his natural levels..I have personally done this a few times.. The guy already has the size.. People fail to realize it's more about diet and training..500mgs will yield great grains yes but he may not need it.. My first ever test cycle I only used 300mg of us pharm grade test a week and was at 17 years old and I gained 15 pounds of clean weight and strength was through the roof..
No bro I'm the only one here going off of actual science and studies. Everyone here is using anecdotes.
I'm also going off the anecdotes of actual experienced bodybuilders on the net and IRL (i live 10 minutes away from Venice beach).
As for 250mg weekly, well, no doubt you can grow a lot on it - i never said differently. I'm just saying you can grow more and grow faster on 500, and that most people end up upping the dosage after a couple months anyways. As a matter of fact several people here on getbig that have taken gals advice ended up doing exactly what i said wishing they would have made the most out of those first 3-4 months and THEN cruised on trt dosages.
TS will come back and say the exact same thing.
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No bro I'm the only one here going off of actual science and studies. Everyone here is using anecdotes.
I'm also going off the anecdotes of actual experienced bodybuilders on the net and IRL (i live 10 minutes away from Venice beach).
As for 250mg weekly, well, no doubt you can grow a lot on it - i never said differently. I'm just saying you can grow more and grow faster on 500, and that most people end up upping the dosage after a couple months. As a matter of fact several people here on getbig that have taken gals advice ended up doing exactly what i said wishing they would have made the most out of those first 3 months then cruised on trt dosages.
TS will come back and say the exact same thing.
Shut the fuck up with your scientific studies.
Get some real life experience, science says what 'should' happen, some people take 5 gms of gear and look like shit and some take 250mgs and look great, science says they should both look the same.
They dont because we are all different, stop spouting stories and get some real life experience.
Sure people have upped the dose, they double the dose but they dont get double the benefit, remember that.
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Sure people have upped the dose, they double the dose but they dont get double the benefit, remember that.
This is true. But sides aren't doubled either.
Either way, TS will be back to agree with me like others have. Remember that.
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250mgs of test for a year is better than 2x 12 weeks of 3gms a week.
No one here recommended 3grams a week for a beginner. Not even close.
Shut the fuck up with your scientific studies.
This subforum is different than the G&O... don't bring garbage here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but leave this kind of garbage and name calling in the g&o.
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This is true. But sides aren't doubled either.
Either way, TS will be back to agree with me like others have. Remember that.
How the fuck do you know?
I take 250mgs of test and Im fine, if I take 500mgs I feel shitty, sounds like double the sides to me.
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No one here recommended 3grams a week for a beginner. Not even close.
This subforum is different than the G&O... don't bring garbage here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but leave this kind of garbage and name calling in the g&o.
I'm talking about anyone, not just a beginner.
Long term use with a small does is better than blasting.
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How the fuck do you know?
I take 250mgs of test and Im fine, if I take 500mgs I feel shitty,sounds like double the sides to me.
Your anecdote sounds quantifiable and correct.
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I'm talking about anyone, not just a beginner.
Long term use with a small does is better than blasting.
Depends on goals.
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Dont listen to this fuckwit, he talks about stories hes heard rather than experiences he's had
Listen to Gal, he has walked the walk.
So have I by the way. ;)
250mgs of test for a year is better than 2x 12 weeks of 3gms a week.
Do what you want to do, as Gal says people seldom listen, you have to learn for yourself.
thanks mate, very nice endorsement :D
always always keep the dose as small as possible and thats that.but run it non stop.
all the science is well, not meaningless, but flawed, im the kind of person who actualy have looked into the scientific studies, have access to great info bc girl is,uhm, working in that field, and i seen the flaws and how someone who hasnt been there could confuse it with reality.
for example, 250test administration into males vs 500test.lean mass gains were pretty much exactly the double in the 500mg group.
sounds nice on paper, but it doesnt transfrom as such into reality.
first, lean gains doesnt mean pure muscle in the mirror, its just more water and nothing else, water doesnt show up as fat when bodyfat is measured.
second, how long can ppl run 500mg of (real,pharmaceutical)test vefore running into problems?the answer is in that above study itself,ironicaly.they have double the water retention than the 250mg group, every ex gearhead will know its not muscle,its water(it might translate into bit more muscle later on indirectly,through lifting heavuer etc).
this means, already consequences on bloodpressure,htey are already quite bloated.and this means side effects already.immedieate, long term too.
and what happens if they go off or reduce?both will feel like coming off entirely.gains come to a halt or regress even.mind you,they made no more muscle gains realy than the 250mg group.
things like that become only obvious when you been there.
not many will be able to run 500mg real test year round wo roblems.ok sure can add adex and whatever to fight the sides, but thats bit going for the alleged goal,isnt it.
wolfox also repetedly said dbol is the ultimate mass bringer.its not, first its a very liver toxic oral, second can be run for what 2 months before the liver says nah no more, and before tolerance build up.in the meanwhile, all one will build is bloat only.
if one had cuts before the dbol, he can kiss them good bye within few weeks of dbol use,they will just fade away one after the other.
it has etremly terrible estrogen conversion ratio,its terrible.
and then you go off, feel like shit from lowered dosager and literaly piss out all the bloat gained in 1 week.the bloat has helped to hold some water and thus lift heavier but it wont translate to good gains bc youll be off it before th body does the major adaptions.
oral are useful as training booster maybe, and last 2 weeks or so before contest,where gymrats never ever go anyway mostly.
and yes on 500mg test,i repeat, something like bayer test fro,m pharmacy,even on clean dieting no cheat day, will be a bloated mes even in caloric deficit.
some ppl might say yeah but gal isnt too big, well come see me in person if you think thats small, and i used to be an easy 50lbs heavier when young and megadosing, but im actualy too embarassed to talk about that time, it looked no good, wasnt fat, but that was no good look.been there,no worries.the stretchmarks everywhere are testimony to that time.
galeniko:
do you think dose should be higher when cutting e.g. 1.5 amps test a week when dieting vs 1 amp when eating more?
nah bro, maybe 1 while maintaining, and for the cutting, same test dose or even less and can add either tren or mast 200orso weekly and thats it.
can be done on same only test dose, only change being little bit more frequent inection.
to look the very best, when already shredded, go off everything.the next 2-3 weeks youll look your very best.if enanthate was used.from day 10 the water will prety much all be gone.
but too much test isnt good for dieting i swear it holds back fatburning.not even adex will stop all the estrogen when theres too much test.
but yeah little bit tren or mast for that time are the best choices and wont really hurt.
sure, this isnt a recipe to become a monster, becoming a mass monster is much much harder than many think, its not-unlike some say-a matter of only enough steroids and or gh, it just is not, but im standing there with enough mass any time of the year, shredded.
if i go off, i hardly lose anything, bit glycogen volume goes down, vascularity goes bit down, and slightly bit more bodyfat.
much preferable to totaly crashing down from gramms,or coming down from 1 gramm to 250weekly(Terrible feeling too).
blood pressure 120-80, heart resting rate 50, good cholesterol too high bad too low.perfect liver paramters, hell even kidneys good.
preference i guess, i wont to lok exact this way year round, more mass,despite some wanting to make it sound easy, is of no interest to me.
irl, only the heavyweight competitors dwarf me,and its not even so bad, not that id care anyway.
and lol i mean amateurs ,not mr o competitors.
must be realistic before saying things like want be bigger than gal, first get to this level and then see.itll take longer than many think.
How the fuck do you know?
I take 250mgs of test and Im fine, if I take 500mgs I feel shitty, sounds like double the sides to me.
actualy the sides are 10fold.i get none form 250, and all kinds from 500.all kinds.
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I'm talking about anyone, not just a beginner.
Long term use with a small does is better than blasting.
and the worst thing a newcomer could do,imo, is to start at too high a dose.
esp something liek 500mg test+dbol or deca for 12 weeks and then"smartly" come off for 2 months and then do a cutting compounds cycle.
such stuff never ends well.
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for example, 250test administration into males vs 500test.lean mass gains were pretty much exactly the double in the 500mg group.
sounds nice on paper, but it doesnt transfrom as such into reality.
first, lean gains doesnt mean pure muscle in the mirror, its just more water and nothing else, water doesnt show up as fat when bodyfat is measured.
second, how long can ppl run 500mg of (real,pharmaceutical)test vefore running into problems?the answer is in that above study itself,ironicaly.they have double the water retention than the 250mg group, every ex gearhead will know its not muscle,its water(it might translate into bit more muscle later on indirectly,through lifting heavuer etc).
Incorrect. Please reread the study again especially the part I already quoted.
Now of course there is gonna be more water because you're gaining new muscle and muscle consists of about 70% water. But the ratio of water to lbm did NOT increase with the increased dosage of 300mg vs 600.
To determine whether the apparent changes in fat-free mass by DEXA scan and underwater weighing represented water retention, we measured total body water and compared the ratios of total body water to fat-free mass before and after treatment in each group. The ratios of total body water to fat-free mass by underwater weighing did not significantly change with treatment in any treatment group (Table 3), indicating that the apparent increase in fat-free mass measured by underwater weighing did not represent water retention in excess of that associated with protein accretion.
But thats not to say that there aren't some test/estro sensitive people out there.
If you think you're sensitive then start off at 250, assess, then bump it up if you want to maximize gains. Or just run some arimidex.
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Shut the fuck up with your scientific studies.
Get some real life experience, science says what 'should' happen, some people take 5 gms of gear and look like shit and some take 250mgs and look great, science says they should both look the same.
They dont because we are all different, stop spouting stories and get some real life experience.
Sure people have upped the dose, they double the dose but they dont get double the benefit, remember that.
Agreed.. Sometimes it's double the side effects
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nah it doesnt translate to that irl, the water retention gonna be massive.
and you cant "Just run arimidex" all year,lol, read about the cancer patients who prefer to go off of it bc of the sides.
and adex weakens the effects of gear.
in other words, on 250 you been dry and crsip, and then do 500, no changes in diet and within weeks theres water everywhere.
theresa reason why competitors go off test or reduce dramaticaly before contest.
its quite bad, can even fuck up a mere beach look physique.even if its just 1 liter of subcutane water evenly spread under the skin, thats quite gonna blur things.
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nah it doesnt translate to that irl, the water retention gonna be massive.
"its just more water and nothing else" - galeniko
Naw, bro. Real peer reviewed science using scientific methods and tools dont work the way of bro science.
Incorrect bro. Sorry, you're wrong.
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They used DEXA scan and underwater weighing. It doesn't get any better than that.
To determine whether the apparent changes in fat-free mass by DEXA scan and underwater weighing represented water retention, we measured total body water and compared the ratios of total body water to fat-free mass before and after treatment in each group. The ratios of total body water to fat-free mass by underwater weighing did not significantly change with treatment in any treatment group (Table 3), indicating that the apparent increase in fat-free mass measured by underwater weighing did not represent water retention in excess of that associated with protein accretion.
Lets see, DEXA scan and underwater weighing carried out by scientists and peer reviewed by other scientists...
vs
"its just more water and nothing else" - galeniko
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and you cant "Just run arimidex" all year,lol, read about the cancer patients who prefer to go off of it bc of the sides.
lol never said run arimidex all year. With cycling no need year around. Blast and cruise no need year around.
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"its just more water and nothing else" - galeniko
Naw, bro. Real peer reviewed science using scientific methods and tools dont work the way of bro science.
Incorrect bro. Sorry, you're wrong.
Your terribly wrong trusting in your studies.. Take it from someone who has blasted heavy doses for a year straight with gh.. To doing 500mgs of test for 6 months.. Blasting and cruising.. To using all kinda of orals and to using low test cycles and getting multiple blood works done while on and off of the cycles..
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Your terribly wrong trusting in your studies.. Take it from someone who has blasted heavy doses for a year straight with gh.. To doing 500mgs of test for 6 months.. To using all kinda of orals and to using low test cycles and getting multiple blood works done while on and off of the cycles..
Cool story bro. But I'll believe in documented reality carried about by scientists with the scientific method and with scientific tools rather than guesses and estimations carried out by bros with anecdotes.
"its just more water and nothing else" - galeniko
Incorrect. And if you agree with Gal's statement then you're incorrect as well.
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Also, keep in mind im talking about beginner(TS has never used) responses as is mostly inline with the study i posted.
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172
The participants were healthy men, 18–35 yr of age, with prior weight-lifting experience and normal testosterone levels. These men had not used any anabolic agents and had not participated in competitive sports events in the preceding year, and they were not planning to participate in competitive events in the following year.
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jason blaha have some good information regarding the science of ped usage (studies etc). Seeing how shit his physique looks following the studies makes disregard all that bullshit.
Studies don't always correlate with personal experience, there are too many variables between each individual. E.g. the studies show ladies can take 50-100 mg anadrol for months/years with little to no virilisation.
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jason blaha have some good information regarding the science of ped usage (studies etc). Seeing how shit his physique looks following the studies makes disregard all that bullshit.
That dude eats like shit and trains like a wannabe powerlifter thats why. The dude is a carb fiend. Also, the dude is on the upper amount of TRT dosages like many here recommend. ;D
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That dude eats like shit and trains like a wannabe powerlifter thats why. The dude is a carb fiend. Also, the dude is on the upper amount of TRT dosages like many here recommend. ;D
I am sure you will see things differently when you take the plunge if you decide to... Studies do help educate but it's really how each person reacts to each compound and dose
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Studies do help educate but it's really how each person reacts to each compound and dose
The study was carried out on different people bro. 61 different men. All the data was recorded and analyzed.
But yeah. Everyone is different... just like those 61 different men. 61 people...each an individual.
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The study was carried out on different people bro. 61 different men. All the data was recorded and analyzed.
But yeah. Everyone is different... just like those 61 different men. 61 people...each an individual.
To each his own bro.. Carry on
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To each his own bro.. Carry on
All respect bro. I understand what you're saying.
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Man this thread went to shit
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All respect bro. I understand what you're saying.
I was kind of the same way as you before I took the plunge, basing things on science and how they "should be", but I would never argue with veterans and people that have actually been there and done that, but thats a different topic I guess...
Youll find after your first cycle that science on paper is not how it works IRL. It just isnt.
I also really respect people with a real base, because I did. Thats why I can be "off" for months before really starting to shrivel at all. I tihnk thats where having a base comes in for me. I bet science wouldnt back that up, lol.
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Your terribly wrong trusting in your studies.. Take it from someone who has blasted heavy doses for a year straight with gh.. To doing 500mgs of test for 6 months.. Blasting and cruising.. To using all kinda of orals and to using low test cycles and getting multiple blood works done while on and off of the cycles..
many dont want to hear it, theres a tipping point where all bets fly through the window.
and the scientific part is only really useful to study the side effects on lipds etc.for that,its great.
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I was kind of the same way as you before I took the plunge, basing things on science and how they "should be", but I would never argue with veterans and people that have actually been there and done that, but thats a different topic I guess...
Youll find after your first cycle that science on paper is not how it works IRL. It just isnt.
I also really respect people with a real base, because I did. Thats why I can be "off" for months before really starting to shrivel at all. I tihnk thats where having a base comes in for me. I bet science wouldnt back that up, lol.
Those were 61 REAL human beings in that study. This shit wasn't some test tube crap. This was IRL and documented the scientific way. I can't take anyone who dismisses this study with the argument "IRL its different" seriously. Break it down...attack their methods...their subjects ...missing variables... but to say "irl its different" means absolutely nothing. I can't respect anyone who says that.
I argue with vets all the time because being a vet doesn't mean much. See above. Wrong is wrong - period. Lots of people have abused steroids and spout bro science all day. Vet's make incorrect statements all the time, see Gal's example.
Also, A LOT of these vets giving advice never built a solid foundation so they haven't been through this experience. Lot of these 'gurus' started juicing in their teens ffs. What experience do they have with a solid natural foundation? none.
And when there are people who follow a 'vet's advice then end up regretting it and doing exactly as I say... then well, that says a lot. Multiple people here have done exactly that.
Either way, it's not a big deal. You'll make good gains on 250mg.
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many dont want to hear it, theres a tipping point where all bets fly through the window.
and the scientific part is only really useful to study the side effects on lipds etc.for that,its great.
Yes some of us had to find out the hard way.. I still read some of the new studies but mostly to try and become more healthy... I base everything off my experiences and my blood work and how I feel... These days I will only use very mild cycles.. Blasting days are over for me
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This is an example of a vet being wrong.
its just more water and nothing else
vs
They used DEXA scan and underwater weighing. It doesn't get any better than that.
"To determine whether the apparent changes in fat-free mass by DEXA scan and underwater weighing represented water retention, we measured total body water and compared the ratios of total body water to fat-free mass before and after treatment in each group. The ratios of total body water to fat-free mass by underwater weighing did not significantly change with treatment in any treatment group (Table 3), indicating that the apparent increase in fat-free mass measured by underwater weighing did not represent water retention in excess of that associated with protein accretion."
Lets see, DEXA scan and underwater weighing carried out by scientists and peer reviewed by other scientists...
vs
"its just more water and nothing else" - galeniko
Gal's response is:
nah it doesnt translate to that irl
This is just a blatant disregard for the reality of these 61 men who's results were documented and measured in the most scientific of ways.
.
.
.
Point is don't hero worship these so called gurus. They are wrong, biased, and often full of shit just like other humans. When they are wrong they are wrong.
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Come on, Wolfox. Just let it go. We understand you are skilled at debating. I started the thread and I asked if anyone had actually used and grew using 250mgs of test a week. No disrespect to you sir, but you have as much practical experience as I do. And that is none. I read the same study you posted on several boards (promuscle, anasci, elitefitness, steroidology, ironmagazine, etc...)for the past 3-4 years. I appreciate all your input, but lets hear from the guys that have actually walked the walk.
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wolfox has it all figured out before he even has done it.
I think he should just take the plunge and start out with a conservative gram a week.
and in 3 months when hes a waterlogged turd he will be turning to more textbooks trying to figure out what went wrong.
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Come on, Wolfox. Just let it go. We understand you are skilled at debating.
And intellectually superior. 8)
No offense to anyone, Gal included. He's a good dude, very knowledgeable, but his brain is no match for the Wolfox.
8)
but lets hear from the guys that have actually walked the walk.
Agreed. But most guys on most forums would agree that what I recommended is a good first cycle.
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And intellectually superior. 8)
No offense to anyone, Gal included. He's a good dude, very knowledgeable, but his brain is no match for the Wolfox.
8)
Agreed. But most guys on most forums would agree that what I recommended is a good first cycle.
The majority of guys on the majority of forums have no idea how to diet and train properly let alone take cycles of steroids
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When I first started researching what to take and how much years ago. Everyone said 250mgs of Sustanon a week. That's when the internet began and everybody started parroting what one guy said 500mgs of test a week or you're just wasting your time. Or you only get one first cycle so make the most of it. Up the dose! I'm sure none of the guys walking the Arnold, Olympia, or even NPC stages had the perfect First Cycle & it hasn't hurt them any.
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The majority of guys on the majority of forums have no idea how to diet and train properly let alone take cycles of steroids
But they have loads of experience...
...of how not to do it. ;)
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Lol true
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comes down to this watch those who did it obviously wrong, based on pics, and listen to those who did it obviously right, based on pics.
then comes factor honesty.
if sceptical on everything, gotta try for yourself.
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Wolfox believes Burger King burgers taste better than McDonalds because he read a study saying they were, although hes never tasted either.
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Wolfox believes Burger King burgers taste better than McDonalds because he read a study saying they were, although hes never tasted either.
are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?
are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?
further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking cawksucker shut?
cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.
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are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?
are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?
further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking guy shut?
cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.
;D
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are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?
are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?
further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking cawksucker shut?
cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.
HILARIOUS!!!
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are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?
are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?
further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking cawksucker shut?
cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.
facing the real life epidemic of permabulkers who obviously got something wrong, basing on theory, ill do everythin right.
its like that guy whos given the keys to sportscar yah bro i can handle it, and 10 minutes later its totaled.incoming excuses
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facing the real life epidemic of permabulkers who obviously got something wrong, basing on theory, ill do everythin right.
its like that guy whos given the keys to sportscar yah bro i can handle it, and 10 minutes later its totaled.incoming excuses
Gal, on the subject of lower dose...
Once down to 8% what are the pros and cons of running 200mg test only versus 100 mg test plus 200mg tren "blast" for about 4 months or so? Which is better for physique? Are the health issues much worse when a little tren is added into the mix for a few months then taken back to 200 mg test only for a cruise?
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Gal, on the subject of lower dose...
Once down to 8% what are the pros and cons of running 200mg test only versus 100 mg test plus 200mg tren "blast" for about 4 months or so? Which is better for physique? Are the health issues much worse when a little tren is added into the mix for a few months then taken back to 200 mg test only for a cruise?
nah bro that perfectly fine.both, the tren+test is just perfect through summer stack.
cholesterol might go up but nothing too bad,as long bit test is in.
i never run tren bc it gives me tits ;D
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well, sure a heavyweight competitor(!) will have to be on a gramm ,give or take.
but this doesnt mean a bloody beginner should start on that dose.or get to that dose within a year,even.
or start on 500mg test first cycle.this is plan stupid.
if 200mg deca weekly will give gains to newcomer, why would they take more.
yes brother ,years of experience and seen the ppl come and go.
few are left over, im still here.healthy,jacked,all good.hell even my hair is still there ;D
i seen the high dosage guys coming and going.failing.one after the other.they ask me man what you take, i tell them 1 test but always, they no believe, bc they on 10times more.
they start lifting, por diet ,2gramms gear, and well nothing happens.all acne.
?
they go off and going off 2 gramms is rdiculously terrible, so bad that many never return, also they open all dors to side efects.for what?
sure the pro sized ppl take plenty. not as much as i read on the internet,though, but anyway,they didnt start out like that.
they built the dose up slowly.
listen to those who look best, who look good year round, for years, never listen to anonymous internet personas.the single one reason why they dont show pics is bc they look like shit
none of that "im running for presdient maybe and cant show pics" is of any value.
and lol dont listen to anyone whos yet to do a cycle.
man,lol, drop the pct, and run that for the whole year,no kidding
10weeks is too little to even kick in truly for the 2 compounds,esp deca.
all year.youre not risking your health with this.its a mild perfetly sane cycle.run it for a year and see where you get.that way you musntnt concern yourself with what next,you know what you do the next 52 weeks.
perfect doses, good choices.
Thanks brother for your reply
You are right yes. there are so many people screaming on the internet, like parrots i think also :D
You know. i mentioned earlier Big Cat (Biochemist and AAS Guru) always says TestE 500 mg is quite mild and is the reference for future use, but for me it sounds also too much because i dont know how my body will respond to the steroids...
Only one question Gal: you said 52 weeks with this cycle? Do you not think my recovery (and maybe deca dick?) will be very very hard after one year?
For me Blast en Cruise is not an option. so it means going on and off...
Thanks again friend
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@Gal: Soory for to bother you again: I forgot 1 question:
Does your body not adapt to the same dose when using it a whole year continuosly? and what about myostatin which can block the grow after time when on. people write that after 8 weeks they do feel less progression on the same dosages?
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@Gal: Soory for to bother you again: I forgot 1 question:
Does your body not adapt to the same dose when using it a whole year continuosly? and what about myostatin which can block the grow after time when on. people write that after 8 weeks they do feel less progression on the same dosages?
Christo, come here and check: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=517979.0 ;)
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take the money you would throw at deca and buy more test and add some dbol for the first month or so
This. You will see good gains with this cruise dose and dbol for first 3wks will give you a nice jump start.. side will be very low if not completely nonexistent. Not to mention need for PCT
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This. You will see good gains with this cruise dose and dbol for first 3wks will give you a nice jump start.. side will be very low if not completely nonexistent. Not to mention need for PCT
I only PCT when I take harsh orals namely superdrol.
test with a superdrol kickstart for the first 2 weeks is like test and dbol without the water, i never recommend supredrol to anyone though, some people get too fucked up, I dont get terrible sides other than a little insomnia on it. First two weeks is always good for like 8 pounds of muscle on maintanence calories if there is such a thing.
the shit used to be OTC, fucking insane.
just straight test, hell no pct. Hcgenerate to keep my peenor like stallion and buck up and keep my ass in the gym. Natural test bounces back quicker than people like to think
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@Gal: Soory for to bother you again: I forgot 1 question:
Does your body not adapt to the same dose when using it a whole year continuosly? and what about myostatin which can block the grow after time when on. people write that after 8 weeks they do feel less progression on the same dosages?
yeah it maxes out after a while, can then increase cals or gear, but have no interest in any more size
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Do you guys inject 250mgs once a week? Or do you inject 2-3 times to keep levels consistent?
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yeah it maxes out after a while, can then increase cals or gear, but have no interest in any more size
Gal, will it make a difference if I take 1cc(250mgs) of test once a week? Or take 1/2cc (125mgs) twice a week?
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Gal, will it make a difference if I take 1cc(250mgs) of test once a week? Or take 1/2cc (125mgs) twice a week?
Just have one 250mg shot, splitting it wont make any difference at all.
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Just have one 250mg shot, splitting it wont make any difference at all.
Cool. I will. I'm going to buy 6 bottles of Test Cyp and run 1cc a week until its all gone. Simple enough. At 40 years old, I'm NOT looking for huge gains anyway. That's a young man's game.
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Cool. I will. I'm going to buy 6 bottles of Test Cyp and run 1cc a week until its all gone. Simple enough. At 40 years old, I'm NOT looking for huge gains anyway. That's a young man's game.
Solid plan, you'll be happy with your results 8)
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What about shrinking balls when 52 weeks on with 250 mg Test E?
What about hcg?
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What about shrinking balls when 52 weeks on with 250 mg Test E?
What about hcg?
shrinking balls will happen if some smartass runs a cycle without test.
other than that , dont think shrunk balls have to do with cycle lenght, rather dosage.
hcg is pure cosmetical effect.it baloons up the balls a bit but doesnt help fertility.
if one gets acne, hairloss, shrunk balls and maybe hairloss even from little bit test, then gear def is nothing for them.there are ppl who have their genetics from the dna trash bin, they best steer clear from any gear.
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I'm not worried about shrinking balls. ;D Plus, a lot of guys reported getting gyno overdoing HCG.
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Not as worried about shrinking balls as I am about shrinking biceps.
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Not as worried about shrinking balls as I am about shrinking biceps.
FINALLY someone with his properties in order ;D
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Wolfcox stfu bro if you haven't even done a cycle yet you have absolutely zero business giving any kind of advice. You sound like a little shit head with your retarded studies no one cares about.
To the op start with 300-400 test. Have some masteron on hand. If I could only use two things for the rest of my life it would be test and masteron. 50 mg of masteron prop 2-3 times a week will relieve any bloat/ blood pressure issues associated with test and those are the major sides. If you just use just test or test dbol you will get bloated eyes and face you will look like shit. Masteron is better and safer than ai. Ais kill gains. Test masteron lean and mean. Trust me this is the best and safest first cycle.
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yes mast never as dry as overdosed AIs, but youll feel a million times better.
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isnt mast the worst for hairlines, if youre prone?
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I love testosterone and masteron low dose.. The only problems I see could be hair loss and the lipids will get a little out of wack with the masteron.. Not everyone gets hair loss with masteron.. But if prone to baldness it will accelerate this..
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It's funny I had the most sides on test only. Even on 500 mg the bloat would be terrible. One night of pizza and.you look like a bloat fish. Test mast bread and butter. Once you grow lean and plateau from this throw in your six weeks of deca tren npp whatever. Then you go back to test mast.
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isnt mast the worst for hairlines, if youre prone?
Well its practically pure dht, so if you're prone don't even think about it.
It's funny I had the most sides on test only. Even on 500 mg the bloat would be terrible. One night of pizza and.you look like a bloat fish. Test mast bread and butter. Once you grow lean and plateau from this throw in your six weeks of deca tren npp whatever. Then you go back to test mast.
Yeah it sucks how much pizza will bloat you...... probably the worst food in that regard.
Good to have you posting again, although I thought the DLB avatar was better ;D
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Yeah it sucks how much pizza will bloat you...... probably the worst food in that regard.
tons of carbs and the rest is salt and fat. heinous. and not to mention how much of it you eat. impossible to have 2 slices.
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Wolfcox stfu bro if you haven't even done a cycle yet you have absolutely zero business giving any kind of advice. You sound like a little shit head with your retarded studies no one cares about.
To the op start with 300-400 test. Have some masteron on hand. If I could only use two things for the rest of my life it would be test and masteron. 50 mg of masteron prop 2-3 times a week will relieve any bloat/ blood pressure issues associated with test and those are the major sides. If you just use just test or test dbol you will get bloated eyes and face you will look like shit. Masteron is better and safer than ai. Ais kill gains. Test masteron lean and mean. Trust me this is the best and safest first cycle.
Could I sub masteron enanthate for the propionate? I've read really good things about masteron.
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Well its practically pure dht, so if you're prone don't even think about it.
Yeah it sucks how much pizza will bloat you...... probably the worst food in that regard.
Good to have you posting again, although I thought the DLB avatar was better ;D
I already wear a "military cut", so I'm not worried about my hair. :)
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tons of carbs and the rest is salt and fat. heinous. and not to mention how much of it you eat. impossible to have 2 slices.
Really? My once a week cheat meal is 1 slice of pepperoni pizza. I eat a pound of chicken just before.
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Really? My once a week cheat meal is 1 slice of pepperoni pizza. I eat a pound of chicken just before.
well sir you are a marvel of self control.
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isnt mast the worst for hairlines, if youre prone?
its the 100% worst for that yes.
on the other side, its most liekly the best steroid of all out there.maybe tren tops it, but thats it.
but cant be run wo any test either, its no good idea
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well sir you are a marvel of self control.
And pepperoni pizza is my favorite thing in the world. If I was dying, I would surround myself with pepperoni pizza.
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And pepperoni pizza is my favorite thing in the world. If I was dying, I would surround myself with pepperoni pizza.
I LOVE pizza! Whenever I eat it, I knock out an extra 20-30 minutes of cardio on top of what I already do. ;D
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I LOVE pizza! Whenever I eat it, I knock out an extra 20-30 minutes of cardio on top of what I already do. ;D
lol. sadly that extra cardio truly hardly makes a dent.
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lol. sadly that extra cardio truly hardly makes a dent.
Naw, it doesn't. It's more of a mental/guilt thing.
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Naw, it doesn't. It's more of a mental/guilt thing.
its prob good for helping you shed some of the bloat though.
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So, 1cc of Test(250mgs) a week it is! I'll also pick up some Masteron enanthate and add it in down the road to stay dry.
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Is there any difference from Test Enanthate or Sustanon?
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Is there any difference from Test Enanthate or Sustanon?
sustenon has a couple esthers in it.
im not sure off the top of my head.
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I used Sus on my last cycle, it was ok. It is a blend. It kicks in a little sooner (so they say, I didn't notice though I was pre loading cycle with Dbol) and a little less bloat (than Test E which is true) but you have to pin more often. Its also more expensive. Just go with Test Cyp. Low bloat, cost effective, one shot a week.
Even for HRT docs are moving away from Sus. Probably because its more of a pain in the ass to keep levels even and less chance of site inj. infection since you pin 2x less than Test E or C
These are pretty basic questions and to be honest it sounds like someone needs to do their research and NOT RELY ON ANSWERS from strangers. If anyone is SERIOUS about AAS / HRT don't fuck yourself and start asking a bunch of strangers on some website that may or may not claim to have used. Do you own research then, once you are on a board long enough and recognize the guys who know their shit vs. ones who "read it somewhere once" ask very specific questions your research has left open.
IF you find someone willing to help, I suggest asking a several questions at once and not PM'ing them 100 times.
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I used Sus on my last cycle, it was ok. It is a blend. It kicks in a little sooner (so they say, I didn't notice though I was pre loading cycle with Dbol) and a little less bloat (than Test E which is true) but you have to pin more often. Its also more expensive. Just go with Test Cyp. Low bloat, cost effective, one shot a week.
Even for HRT docs are moving away from Sus. Probably because its more of a pain in the ass to keep levels even and less chance of site inj. infection since you pin 2x less than Test E or C
I did disclaim that I could be wrong.
the only experience with the shit was back in high school when I had some buddies that picked up some pre packaged sustenon pins.
One of the guys at the gym told us that sustenon was garbage and dont waste your time, I tuned the shit out ever since.
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I did disclaim that I could be wrong.
the only experience with the shit was back in high school when I had some buddies that picked up some pre packaged sustenon pins.
One of the guys at the gym told us that sustenon was garbage and dont waste your time, I tuned the shit out ever since.
Its cool man, more so Millinium Man needs to do his research instead of asking basic questions they may lead him down a dangerous path if some asshole wanted to give him shit advice. On purpose or accident. Don't want him to fuck himself.
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I used Sus on my last cycle, it was ok. It is a blend. It kicks in a little sooner (so they say, I didn't notice though I was pre loading cycle with Dbol) and a little less bloat (than Test E which is true) but you have to pin more often. Its also more expensive. Just go with Test Cyp. Low bloat, cost effective, one shot a week.
Even for HRT docs are moving away from Sus. Probably because its more of a pain in the ass to keep levels even and less chance of site inj. infection since you pin 2x less than Test E or C
These are pretty basic questions and to be honest it sounds like someone needs to do their research and NOT RELY ON ANSWERS from strangers. If anyone is SERIOUS about AAS / HRT don't fuck yourself and start asking a bunch of strangers on some website that may or may not claim to have used. Do you own research then, once you are on a board long enough and recognize the guys who know their shit vs. ones who "read it somewhere once" ask very specific questions your research has left open.
IF you find someone willing to help, I suggest asking a several questions at once and not PM'ing them 100 times.
Research has been done, bro. I'm just getting opinions. At the end of the day, that's all they are. You take those and formulate what you are going to do or not do. That's what the board is for. It's better to ask basic or advanced questions, than not. If you go to some of the other popular boards, they ALL recommend 500mgs of Test a week along with Dbol. Galeniko's advice is in bold contrast to what others advise & I'm glad he enlightened me. :)
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Research has been done, bro. I'm just getting opinions. At the end of the day, that's all they are. You take those and formulate what you are going to do or not do. That's what the board is for. It's better to ask basic or advanced questions, than not. If you go to some of the other popular boards, they ALL recommend 500mgs of Test a week along with Dbol. Galeniko's advice is in bold contrast to what others advise & I'm glad he enlightened me. :)
I work with a trainer sometimes in the Cincinnati area. He's trained bb and pl'ers and he is very free with real-world advice. His advice regarding gear was pretty much the same as Gal's: start small and work up if necessary. Gal says side start to really kick in at 500/week (look at anabolichalo's raging bacne). This guy: 400/week.
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Some people prefer sustanon, but you'll have to inject 2-3x a week. Plus its usually more painful due to the prop ester.
Just do 250mg test cyp/enth 1x week
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I work with a trainer sometimes in the Cincinnati area. He's trained bb and pl'ers and he is very free with real-world advice. His advice regarding gear was pretty much the same as Gal's: start small and work up if necessary. Gal says side start to really kick in at 500/week (look at anabolichalo's raging bacne). This guy: 400/week.
yeah thanks bro.
everyone who has ben in this will say something similiar to that.
nobpody worth their money or sane will tell to a complete newcomer to have 500mg base test with nothing or even with added compounds.
if one starts at too high level they will not be doing this for long.theyll entirely stop.
too long to list why and what, but the results will be poor.
the higher doses etc for later on, yeah, thats fine.
and if one doesnt grow on 500mgs weekly, hell if one doesnt grow on 250 weekly for first timers, they will never grow on anything.
or, somethings off, the training being much too little intesnse(many ppl overestimate how "hard" they train, but they have the nerve to talk shit about how pros train, one almost has to killthemselves in the gym to justify gear use, the training must be fierce, not weights used necesarily, but intensity), or the diet is off, or both.
gear is always on in most cases,thats not the problem.
if the training and diet arent dead spot on, any dosage is "too much" or pointless.
when i see newcomers talking about what weight they lift, i know by default they doing everything wrong.
the correct weight to use is the one where you fail at 8th-20th reps of full slw concentrated rom, however much that is, it can vary wildly on day to day basis.
and dieting or slight gaining, the difference is just bit food dofference and days off the gym, more days off the gym allow better growth, more days in the gym one will be more shredded.
and must always balance the walk, feel when a day off is needed or smart, etc.
anabolhalo realy wanted to believe just upping the dosage will do it eventualy, i always said he will be having a unpleasant awakening.
and what now?he was scared of his hair, yet meanwhile the acne is coming out like sweat in normal ppl.
thats part of genetics and diminishing returns too.
then we have mr 5gramms of gear weekly esf, well, look at him.
do you want to inject 20 1ml ampoulas a week(!!!) for that look?dont think so.
not everyone will lok the same on 250 or 500, but everyone should take it step by step.
or the guys, runing every compound in the world available and then boom gyno, the question which one might have caused it?well, hard to tell,isnt it ;D
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In few first years of training, train with heavy weights and increase them is the best/easiest way to make progress with proper diet. Stronger muscles are bigger muscles with good diet always.
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yeah thanks bro.
everyone who has ben in this will say something similiar to that.
nobpody worth their money or sane will tell to a complete newcomer to have 500mg base test with nothing or even with added compounds.
if one starts at too high level they will not be doing this for long.theyll entirely stop.
too long to list why and what, but the results will be poor.
the higher doses etc for later on, yeah, thats fine.
and if one doesnt grow on 500mgs weekly, hell if one doesnt grow on 250 weekly for first timers, they will never grow on anything.
or, somethings off, the training being much too little intesnse(many ppl overestimate how "hard" they train, but they have the nerve to talk shit about how pros train, one almost has to killthemselves in the gym to justify gear use, the training must be fierce, not weights used necesarily, but intensity), or the diet is off, or both.
gear is always on in most cases,thats not the problem.
if the training and diet arent dead spot on, any dosage is "too much" or pointless.
when i see newcomers talking about what weight they lift, i know by default they doing everything wrong.
the correct weight to use is the one where you fail at 8th-20th reps of full slw concentrated rom, however much that is, it can vary wildly on day to day basis.
and dieting or slight gaining, the difference is just bit food dofference and days off the gym, more days off the gym allow better growth, more days in the gym one will be more shredded.
and must always balance the walk, feel when a day off is needed or smart, etc.
anabolhalo realy wanted to believe just upping the dosage will do it eventualy, i always said he will be having a unpleasant awakening.
and what now?he was scared of his hair, yet meanwhile the acne is coming out like sweat in normal ppl.
thats part of genetics and diminishing returns too.
then we have mr 5gramms of gear weekly esf, well, look at him.
do you want to inject 20 1ml ampoulas a week(!!!) for that look?dont think so.
not everyone will lok the same on 250 or 500, but everyone should take it step by step.
or the guys, runing every compound in the world available and then boom gyno, the question which one might have caused it?well, hard to tell,isnt it ;D
Great post, top notch.
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In few first years of training, train with heavy weights and increase them is the best/easiest way to make progress with proper diet. Stronger muscles are bigger muscles with good diet always.
nah you only train as heavy as needed, at any given time.
you cant permanently increase training weight without getting eztremly fat, or insane dosing.
thats not how it works, one day can bench 300 for reps, other day 200 will seem heavy.
strenght is relative to many factors,like rest, muscle areas previously trained, food over last days, rest over light days.
if one only concentrates on getting stronger, they will not look good.
bigger muscle come from steroids, not from strenghts.look at the plympic athletes who are extremly strong some of them are twinks.
or fatties with zero muscle underneath.
if you want to look like bbuilde,rmust train like one.and eat like one.
the training heavy mantra is absolute bullfucking shit.
i train my arms with 25lbs dumbels and actualy have bigger arms than some competitors and even 1 or 2 "small" ifb card holders.bigger,better, leaner.
instead of increasing the weight, what wrong with using the same weight for more reps?that muscle will grow too.
and what is strenght?if you use 200lbs bench press and are doing 8reps with 40seconds non stop contraction,vs 250lbs for fast 10 reps within 25 seconds, and not same permanent contraction, what you think wich set will be more useful for muscle stimulation?
and which one will eventualy blow out a joint a tendon or whatever.
sometimes its pointless to talk to the young guns, they dont wanna hear it, so have to learn the hard way.they dont even learn, they ont show up into gym ever again anymore after the first few problems.like reuceing dosage bc of size and withering away.
little girls,the lot of them.
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galeniko, you are so right about this,i do personal training at a local gym and i try explaining this all the time,that its about the recruitment of muscle fibers and workload you put on them,
people think lift "big" (heavy) get "big". while this may make you feel like more of a man in the gym,lifting more then the next guy to you,but the true way to gain muscle is to recruit muscle fibers of all types by creasting a heavy workload that when it comes time for your cells to regenerate they choose hypertrophy because they know they need to adapt to the increased workload,not increased weight,just MHO
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nah you only train as heavy as needed, at any given time.
you cant permanently increase training weight without getting eztremly fat, or insane dosing.
thats not how it works, one day can bench 300 for reps, other day 200 will seem heavy.
strenght is relative to many factors,like rest, muscle areas previously trained, food over last days, rest over light days.
if one only concentrates on getting stronger, they will not look good.
bigger muscle come from steroids, not from strenghts.look at the plympic athletes who are extremly strong some of them are twinks.
or fatties with zero muscle underneath.
if you want to look like bbuilde,rmust train like one.and eat like one.
the training heavy mantra is absolute bullfucking shit.
i train my arms with 25lbs dumbels and actualy have bigger arms than some competitors and even 1 or 2 "small" ifb card holders.bigger,better, leaner.
instead of increasing the weight, what wrong with using the same weight for more reps?that muscle will grow too.
and what is strenght?if you use 200lbs bench press and are doing 8reps with 40seconds non stop contraction,vs 250lbs for fast 10 reps within 25 seconds, and not same permanent contraction, what you think wich set will be more useful for muscle stimulation?
and which one will eventualy blow out a joint a tendon or whatever.
sometimes its pointless to talk to the young guns, they dont wanna hear it, so have to learn the hard way.they dont even learn, they ont show up into gym ever again anymore after the first few problems.like reuceing dosage bc of size and withering away.
little girls,the lot of them.
You think lifting heavy in your "career" helped to develop tendon/ligament strength or is that all bullshit as well?
Would it be more beneficial to lift heavy for 2 or 3 years to build that part of your body then focus totally on the muscle or it just a waste of time?
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You think lifting heavy in your "career" helped to develop tendon/ligament strength or is that all bullshit as well?
Would it be more beneficial to lift heavy for 2 or 3 years to build that part of your body then focus totally on the muscle or it just a waste of time?
nah if anything it "helped" to destroy my shoulder.
its a very dangerous ath long term, sure can kill the pain off with painkillers, but that will do your kidenys in.
some base strenght, towards end of diet some 10reps with own bodyweight benchpress that should be there, but it really comes by itslef with gear over time.
chest and legs are my best examples i used very heavy heavy weight early on, and development was piss poor, they only came along once i tarted ocncentrating on the rom etc.
tendon strenght i even think is kinda given factor, they will never realy be up to par with steroid induced strenght.theyre not meant to be.
galeniko, you are so right about this,i do personal training at a local gym and i try explaining this all the time,that its about the recruitment of muscle fibers and workload you put on them,
people think lift "big" (heavy) get "big". while this may make you feel like more of a man in the gym,lifting more then the next guy to you,but the true way to gain muscle is to recruit muscle fibers of all types by creasting a heavy workload that when it comes time for your cells to regenerate they choose hypertrophy because they know they need to adapt to the increased workload,not increased weight,just MHO
yes bro,like clockwork, its the ones training rpoperly who look good,the swingers all look like shit.
ofc thats not to be confused with a guy who trained 20 years and does a couple lazy training sessions.
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galiniko, I wonder your thoughts. I hear of guys talking injuries all the time, especially newbies coming in and just trying to slam heavy weights without getting proper form down to a science. Do you think its a ego thing that most of them don't want to be seen with a 10, 20lbs weight doing high reps to properly restore strength once healed? It seems to me they are willing to let it heal but then come back in and just start throwing heavy weights on again.
How much do you stress to people you advise to start out light and get proper stretching and form down before trying to lift like Mr Olympia?
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Damn, Galeniko is really an asset to these forums.... His posts are just filled with personal experience and knowledge.
Not only that but he's incredibly helpful with his posts in threads and especially in PMs....a 1-2 sentence question to him results in an extensive response.
Kudos friend, you've had an enormous influence on me and how I approach bodybuilding--and I know I'm not the only one
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Damn, Galeniko is really an asset to these forums.... His posts are just filled with personal experience and knowledge.
Not only that but he's incredibly helpful with his posts in threads and especially in PMs....a 1-2 sentence question to him results in an extensive response.
Kudos friend, you've had an enormous influence on me and how I approach bodybuilding--and I know I'm not the only one
For real!
I'm glad he takes the time to help people out genuinely.
He's one of the few people who i personally take advice from for almost any subject body building related.
8)
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I concur, still bit of an AAS novice and Gal has guided me well 8)
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galiniko, I wonder your thoughts. I hear of guys talking injuries all the time, especially newbies coming in and just trying to slam heavy weights without getting proper form down to a science. Do you think its a ego thing that most of them don't want to be seen with a 10, 20lbs weight doing high reps to properly restore strength once healed? It seems to me they are willing to let it heal but then come back in and just start throwing heavy weights on again.
How much do you stress to people you advise to start out light and get proper stretching and form down before trying to lift like Mr Olympia?
yah ego thing, misled thinking, motivate dlike young dog, a mix of all that.
i tell everyone if they ask, i mean they see me train and get a precise idea.
but theres very stuborn ppl out there, they see it but dont want to believe ;D
thx thx folks, just bringing a bit sanity to the board 8)
would seriously feel bad for giving bad advice to anyone.
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yah ego thing, misled thinking, motivate dlike young dog, a mix of all that.
i tell everyone if they ask, i mean they see me train and get a precise idea.
but theres very stuborn ppl out there, they see it but dont want to believe ;D
thx thx folks, just bringing a bit sanity to the board 8)
would seriously feel bad for giving bad advice to anyone.
After being bombared on so MANY of the better known boards that if you don't use 500mgs of Test a week on your first cycle, you're wasting your time. I was really starting to believe it. I'm glad I came here to listen to reason. 250mgs of Test a week for 6-12 months is fine by me. Simple and effective. At least I won't be confused wondering what I'm on for a while. ;D
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more days offte the gym allow betr growth, more days in the gym one will be more shredded.
and must always balance the walk, feel when a day off is needed or smart, etc.
But in muscles or in fat? ;D
Rest/OFF days from training were my last reflection about Bodybuilding. I wrote to a lot of people; competitiors on any level and to ugly users and yes... most of them train only 3/4 days a week when they want to add muscles to theirs body ::)
Fk, i wanted to train more ( 6-7 days a week ) and do the same but after talks with them i think it's almost impossible.
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Guys, I'd like to get some veteran opinions. Let's say you maxed out your natural potential by putting the work in the gym and out. Focusing on the basics(Squats and Deads over 400+lbs for reps, DB Benches with 130's for reps, and 1 Arm Rows with 140's). Would Test@250mgs/wk be a good place to start? Yes or no? Have any of you tried 250mgs of Test/wk and made substantial progress? I'm going to stay on at least 6 months, either way.
Unless you have stage 4 AIDS, you can grow like a mofo on 250 sust as 1st cycle.
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Yes, sir. Soon to be 40 next month. 6'3" 235lbs and 8-9% bf. My aim is more of a "Men's Physique" type than all out mass if that makes any sense.
Lets see some before pics.
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@Galeniko:
I dont know if i already asked you:
I want to do the following 1 timer:
TestE 300 mg
Deca 100-125 mg *schoulder/joint injury)
Because i think the deca can strenghten my schoulderjoints plus the little deca can support the test, i think it is quite a good choice. also prostate problems and baldness is less a problem with the deca.
From the other part: i am thinking to replace the deca for a little primo at 200 mg per week.
Because my BF is 17-18% the primo should be a better choise than the deca?
please can you advise ?
Thanks again Galeniko!!!
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@Galeniko:
I dont know if i already asked you:
I want to do the following 1 timer:
TestE 300 mg
Deca 100-125 mg *schoulder/joint injury)
Because i think the deca can strenghten my schoulderjoints plus the little deca can support the test, i think it is quite a good choice. also prostate problems and baldness is less a problem with the deca.
From the other part: i am thinking to replace the deca for a little primo at 200 mg per week.
Because my BF is 17-18% the primo should be a better choise than the deca?
please can you advise ?
Thanks again Galeniko!!!
My two peneth.
Get down to 12% before you take anything.
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agreed. If you going to do a cycle and truly want to grow you will need to be a lifting and EATING machine. You will put on 5-8% ..maybe even 10% (though a lot of water sometimes is mistaken for BF%) so get as low as you can so once you got a solid 25lbs or more from the cycle you can shred down and keep most of the muscle you packed on.
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yeah get reasonably lean first, really.
at 12% and more youre not doing yourself any favours.
ofc, an experienced lifter can do it,if they get fat faaat after long training break, but thats not the same.
if too fat, cant start gaining, will look an absolute mess and the water retention will be terrible, folowd by health issues potentialy.
esp being 15% and doing "a cycle".better dont.its pointless.youre fat, will gain water, then come off.what was the purpose?
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I guess I am going to find out. Just started this protocol this morning!
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yeah get reasonably lean first, really.
at 12% and more youre not doing yourself any favours.
ofc, an experienced lifter can do it,if they get fat faaat after long training break, but thats not the same.
if too fat, cant start gaining, will look an absolute mess and the water retention will be terrible, folowd by health issues potentialy.
esp being 15% and doing "a cycle".better dont.its pointless.youre fat, will gain water, then come off.what was the purpose?
Thanks for your reply Gal. I will first cut a little before using AAS
But what should be your choice in my case? primo or deca as mentioned?
Thanks again!
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Thanks for your reply Gal. I will first cut a little before using AAS
But what should be your choice in my case? primo or deca as mentioned?
Thanks again!
no problem.
man, you can leave out both the primo and deca, theyre weak as shit compared to test, and its 1 source less of possible sides.
the 300mg test will give enough water and fluid in the joints to ease the pain,btw that pain doesnt go away,its there you still do damage to the tissue,maybe even moreso,simply bc you cant feel the pain nomore.
this following is maybe the best tip i ever gave:dont do any exercise not even 1single rep when it hurts the joints.
in conclusion, just run test for itslef for half year and all will be good.
if you want to run somethign along with that, all factors considered, eq will be best, can be ran forever.
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no problem.
man, you can leave out both the primo and deca, theyre weak as shit compared to test, and its 1 source less of possible sides.
the 300mg test will give enough water and fluid in the joints to ease the pain,btw that pain doesnt go away,its there you still do damage to the tissue,maybe even moreso,simply bc you cant feel the pain nomore.
this following is maybe the best tip i ever gave:dont do any exercise not even 1single rep when it hurts the joints.
in conclusion, just run test for itslef for half year and all will be good.
Thanks again Gal for your comment. Sorry for my late response.
Anyway what is going to happen after 6 or 12 months on? My hpta will be zero and my libido?because i shut my system during large time?
What about immunization for the test after 8 weeks?
if you want to run somethign along with that, all factors considered, eq will be best, can be ran forever.
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Something went wrong with my previous reply
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yp cristo, there will not me immunization to test,it always always works the same, its just that you max out on gains and then nothing more happens unless you raise dose or add other compounds etc.
but, i swear the maing out on real real muscle, for a natty, on 2-300mg weekly,takes about 6-12 months.
under those first timer circumstance, one will benefit one year without changing naything on the regiment, this is simply the time the body takes to grow those muscles.
after that, its time to ask oneself, am i happy with the result or do i want more.
dont ask yourself this before 1 year non stop on, this is a decent benchmark.
doing 1 cycle, going off, then double strenght-dose cycle and going off i svery stupid and will have poor long term results.
1 year non stop for newcomer, then get shredded,see whats left and ask yourself is it enough, most cases will be,ill say again, the results will be better than one excpcects,better than the on off b;lasters.
or you can then settle for always trt of kinds +1 compound for summer, as help tool to be more shredded etc.or gh.whatver one wants.
the testicle axis, while im no doctor, let me express my views on this.
all the pct will not really help.you stop gear, dnt bother with pct, gearhead never ever fully reover anyway.
but youll recover quite fast to an ok-ish level, were talking few weeks here.but after that theres no further recovery,not even in years to come.
now, what shuts ones own production down the most?
is it dosage,is it compounds, is it lenght of cycle?
i think, maybe its individualy different, but what i think is this:
when running test only low to moderate dosages,the shutdown is not bad at all, even after 6months, even after 2 years non stop use.
now if dosage is higher, coming down from high dsages to low, this always always feels worse than coming of from trt.waay worse.
now, other compounds than test, it doesnt evn matter if its the weaker ,less androgenic ones, they seem to shut the ais down much much faster, and worse than test.examples, deca is weak but shuts you right down.tren isnt sooo androgenic its debatable whether its even more androgenic than test, shuts you down bad too, smae with winny, same with mast, eq etc.
i feel everything else but test has the worse impact on shutdown.
libido is individual, some even feel an increase after coming off, maybe they recover faster.
cheers
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yp cristo, there will not me immunization to test,it always always works the same, its just that you max out on gains and then nothing more happens unless you raise dose or add other compounds etc.
but, i swear the maing out on real real muscle, for a natty, on 2-300mg weekly,takes about 6-12 months.
under those first timer circumstance, one will benefit one year without changing naything on the regiment, this is simply the time the body takes to grow those muscles.
after that, its time to ask oneself, am i happy with the result or do i want more.
dont ask yourself this before 1 year non stop on, this is a decent benchmark.
doing 1 cycle, going off, then double strenght-dose cycle and going off i svery stupid and will have poor long term results.
1 year non stop for newcomer, then get shredded,see whats left and ask yourself is it enough, most cases will be,ill say again, the results will be better than one excpcects,better than the on off b;lasters.
or you can then settle for always trt of kinds +1 compound for summer, as help tool to be more shredded etc.or gh.whatver one wants.
the testicle axis, while im no doctor, let me express my views on this.
all the pct will not really help.you stop gear, dnt bother with pct, gearhead never ever fully reover anyway.
but youll recover quite fast to an ok-ish level, were talking few weeks here.but after that theres no further recovery,not even in years to come.
now, what shuts ones own production down the most?
is it dosage,is it compounds, is it lenght of cycle?
i think, maybe its individualy different, but what i think is this:
when running test only low to moderate dosages,the shutdown is not bad at all, even after 6months, even after 2 years non stop use.
now if dosage is higher, coming down from high dsages to low, this always always feels worse than coming of from trt.waay worse.
now, other compounds than test, it doesnt evn matter if its the weaker ,less androgenic ones, they seem to shut the ais down much much faster, and worse than test.examples, deca is weak but shuts you right down.tren isnt sooo androgenic its debatable whether its even more androgenic than test, shuts you down bad too, smae with winny, same with mast, eq etc.
i feel everything else but test has the worse impact on shutdown.
libido is individual, some even feel an increase after coming off, maybe they recover faster.
cheers
Thanks again bro
I want to know you thoughts about the following
There is a german bb guy an amateur champion who claims the following. 6 weeks test 250 and primo 200. After six weeks 10 days clomid 50 mg
After 3 months nada again the same cycle and dosages. Repeat every 3 months
He claims he never has any side effect, has always very quick hpta recovery, so less loss of mucles and steady lean gains with a healthy look
He only use test and primo with same amounts and lengths
There is a lot of discussion about this in germany
What do you think?
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Hi Gal,
My last question to you:
If somebody wants to cycle only 10-12 weeks with test only, do you advise him also 250 mg or 500 mg (first timer)
I am waiting for your response ;)
Thanks in advance
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250, why take more than you might need?
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250 ofc.
as simon said, why take more.250 is plenty times natural production over.
but 10weeks is a joke, better to stay natural.
not much will happen in 10 weeks.
then he comes of and has a shot axis etc.not worth it.
as for the german amateur, i dont trust him,i dont know him, everythings possible.,
but newcomers will make fuck all gains in 10weeks.
an amateur competitor has years of use under his belt and blows up on short cycles, newcomer cant do that.
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Hi Gal,
My last question to you:
If somebody wants to cycle only 10-12 weeks with test only, do you advise him also 250 mg or 500 mg (first timer)
I am waiting for your response ;)
Thanks in advance
250 turned out to be plenty for me. I'm at 325 now (125 test, 200 mast) but am going to go back to 250 test only.
And like gal said earlier: you just keep gaining until that dose plateaus. For me, I'm still going up after about 6 months. Not exploding in size or strength, but every workout it's one or two more reps. Slow and steady progress, that's what I like. Not ballooning and deflating constantly. :-X
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I like that GB advocates smaller doses at the beginning. The whole gear-Internet is filled with guys advocating much larger initial doses. Why is everybody in such a rush? If you are a recently converted former natty like me, it took you decades to get where you are. Enjoy the ride!
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I like that GB advocates smaller doses at the beginning. The whole gear-Internet is filled with guys advocating much larger initial doses. Why is everybody in such a rush? If you are a recently converted former natty like me, it took you decades to get where you are. Enjoy the ride!
I agree. some guys just don;t pay their dues before jumping on gear. I wanted to use gear for years and I waited till I was fucking 25 years old because I just hadn't maxed out naturally yet and I had been training almost fucking daily since I was 14 years old. Did I get much bigger from the age of 19 to 26 not really but even the 6-8 pounds of muscle makes a diffrence plus I jumped in knowing what I was doing. I had a great source and knew what to use on cycle and off cycle. Always taper up! no reason to start at anything above 200mg-250mg a week, work with that for while see how your body handles the drug and go from there, if you feel good and are getting gains with no side effects throw in some EQ or a mild oral.
some people underestimate how strong real Test can be and especially dbol. You could feel fine for a few weeks then you laugh at something and you wonder why your nipples are hurting, seen it many times people don"t see instant gains and jack up their dose, just be patient. Most of us waited years to be able to use AAS anyways whats a few months of seeing how your body handles a drug.
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well thanks for the answers
I want to explain you my current situation:
I am 42 years old and i have build up a solid base of 98 kg my bf is 18%. I am training for 25 years natty
So i am planning a cycle for 10 weeks, really no longer.
People write in Germany that 250 mg test is not 250 mg test but only approx 180 mg because you may not count the esterweight of the stuff.
180 mg is nearly 2 times your naturally test level so why supressing your axis for that low amount?
If you use 500 mg test the supression is the same than for 250 mg.
If you then add some masteron or primo less aromatizing and less oestrogen effects you will get but a lot of more gains?
These are not my words but from the others.
So what is your answer to that?
Anyway i hope you want to respond again because i am still doubing.
Many thanks guys
These are not my words bro but theirs from Germany
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Offcourse first i am going to lower bij BF to 14% before using aas
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Offcourse first i am going to lower bij BF to 14% before using aas
Try to get at around for 7-9% BF before starting. I don't know who told you to throw in masteron but that might not be a great way to go . masteron is pretty androgenic. You want a more anabolic to androgenic ratio for your first cycle to start out with. throwing in the Primo would be fine but it is fucking expensive to use primo right and hard to find legit primo. If you can afford to throw in primo by all means do it, save the masteron for down the road. see how your body reacts to the test and Primo first.
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well thanks for the answers
I want to explain you my current situation:
I am 42 years old and i have build up a solid base of 98 kg my bf is 18%. I am training for 25 years natty
So i am planning a cycle for 10 weeks, really no longer.
People write in Germany that 250 mg test is not 250 mg test but only approx 180 mg because you may not count the esterweight of the stuff.
180 mg is nearly 2 times your naturally test level so why supressing your axis for that low amount?
If you use 500 mg test the supression is the same than for 250 mg.
If you then add some masteron or primo less aromatizing and less oestrogen effects you will get but a lot of more gains?
These are not my words but from the others.
So what is your answer to that?
Anyway i hope you want to respond again because i am still doubing.
Many thanks guys
These are not my words bro but theirs from Germany
You could listen to them. You might gain 30 Lbs in 10 weeks. Yay! And then you would lose at least 25 Lbs the next 10 weeks. You could do 250 mg for 20 weeks, have better results, and not crash nearly as hard.
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You could listen to them. You might gain 30 Lbs in 10 weeks. Yay! And then you would lose at least 25 Lbs the next 10 weeks. You could do 250 mg for 20 weeks, have better results, and not crash nearly as hard.
thats a good point. I would blast for the Ten weeks and then you HAVE to cruise on gear. Taper down slowly just like any medication get your PCT and training and diet in check then slowly come off or just stay on and keep the dose low. I made this mistake but I go for a look and only try to keep it for a month or two. I really never believed in staying on for life that is strictly for guys with medication needs or guys who can really make money with their physiques.
You def don't want to stay on forever so you might want to rethink your plans. If you do the cycle just taper off. buy a great assortment of PCT goods and you should be fine. Nobody keeps all their gains. sometimes guys want to experiment with AAS but just know it's not magic. If you don;t stay on you will def lose some of the gains just how the shit works. like any medicine. always taper off. coming off of any drug is not the way to go. You always need to taper slowly or have a alternate medication on hand that works similar.
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I'm 30 and just started trt. I take 200mgs per week to pharm grade test cyp.
1. Is 200 more than a nnatural?
2. Can you make slow and steady gains on 200mgs per week more than a natural?
3. My trt doc can also prescribe my pharmacy grade decade and anavar.
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I'm 30 and just started trt. I take 200mgs per week to pharm grade test cyp.
1. Is 200 more than a nnatural?
2. Can you make slow and steady gains on 200mgs per week more than a natural?
3. My trt doc can also prescribe my pharmacy grade decade and anavar.
You have a very generous TRT doc. Take the deca and var, if you can.
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I'm 30 and just started trt. I take 200mgs per week to pharm grade test cyp.
1. Is 200 more than a nnatural?
2. Can you make slow and steady gains on 200mgs per week more than a natural?
3. My trt doc can also prescribe my pharmacy grade decade and anavar.
From what I read in some medical journals:
1. average male test production is between 50-70mg a week. So yes 200 is much more.
2. Most likely it will be easier as it is more hormones than normal. It makes the "margin for error" larger. But diet and training still count.
3. I'm guessing as long as your doc watches all the vitals (cholesterol, hemocrit, psa, etc, etc) and all is in check then if it helps you for whatever reason you need it... then go for it.
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From what I read in some medical journals:
1. average male test production is between 50-70mg a week. So yes 200 is much more.
2. Most likely it will be easier as it is more hormones than normal. It makes the "margin for error" larger. But diet and training still count.
3. I'm guessing as long as your doc watches all the vitals (cholesterol, hemocrit, psa, etc, etc) and all is in check then if it helps you for whatever reason you need it... then go for it.
some pharmacists say it sometimes it does not translate like one would think. You do have to facter in ester weight and overall absorption. funny with a injectable you think all of it would absorb but they claim sometimes it dosn;t and some guys have very little luck with TRT. I think way more have luck but there are cases were TRT isn;t very efficient. I imagine at 200mg a week you will absorb 150-175mg.
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I'm 30 and just started trt. I take 200mgs per week to pharm grade test cyp.
1. Is 200 more than a nnatural?
2. Can you make slow and steady gains on 200mgs per week more than a natural?
3. My trt doc can also prescribe my pharmacy grade decade and anavar.
that's one nice DR. Dr.s never usually prescribe nandrolone on top of testosterone and he is willing to give you Oxandrolone(Anavar). I hope you have good insurance 60x10mg anavar tabs are super expensive.Might as well get HGH rather then Anavar they are around the same price at the pharmacy.A kit of serostim is about the same as 60 tabs of 10mg oxandrolone.
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LOL true man! But even with stripping out the esters it is still much more than normal. I know what you mean though... Buddy at the gym is on TRT and has to take 2cc's just to get into the top range of "normal". Seems like it doesn't effect him as much. Other fella I know can take only 100mg a week and he is at the top range instantly.
Heck yeah a doc that will prescribe that... I need to find me a doc that will give deca, anavar, etc. ;D Then I can pitch peptides out the window. ha ha ha :D
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that's one nice DR. Dr.s never usually prescribe nandrolone on top of testosterone and he is willing to give you Oxandrolone(Anavar). I hope you have good insurance 60x10mg anavar tabs are super expensive.Might as well get HGH rather then Anavar they are around the same price at the pharmacy.A kit of serostim is about the same as 60 tabs of 10mg oxandrolone.
My insurance only covers the test. You're right...The anavar Is insanely expensive...If I remember correctly he quoted a price that would have come out to like 17$ per day...and it was for like 40 or 60 mgs
. However it is real pharmacy grade. Also he said hed give me discounts for referals. It's a doc I found down here in south fl. It took a lot of due diligence to find this doc.
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My insurance only covers the test. You're right...The anavar Is insanely expensive...If I remember correctly he quoted a price that would have come out to like 17$ per day...and it was for like 40 or 60 mgs
. However it is real pharmacy grade. Also he said hed give me discounts for referals. It's a doc I found down here in south fl. It took a lot of due diligence to find this doc.
At walgreens they want close to 800$ for 60 tabs/10mg Oxandrolone and they said they didn;t even have it in stock they would have to special order it. Every once in awhile you will find these compounding pharmacys that are human grade.SIGNATURx was a big one in the mid 2000's, they sold real human grade anavar for somewhat of a decent price when they got busted and got the client list they found close to 20 professional big name athletes using that clinic in Florida.
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I'm 30 and just started trt. I take 200mgs per week to pharm grade test cyp.
1. Is 200 more than a nnatural?
2. Can you make slow and steady gains on 200mgs per week more than a natural?
3. My trt doc can also prescribe my pharmacy grade decade and anavar.
1. Yes, about 2-3x more than a natural
2. Hell yes, it makes a big difference when compared to being natural
3. If you can afford it, you'd be a sucker not to take advantage. 200 test/200 deca is a very good cycle. Pharma Anavar is incredibly expensive, but it's also very potent. If you get that from your doctor, save your pills up and do 4 weeks on at double the dosage, four weeks off.