Can You Grow On 250mgs of Test/wk On A First Cycle???

[galeniko]

Your terribly wrong trusting in your studies.. Take it from someone who has blasted heavy doses for a year straight with gh.. To doing 500mgs of test for 6 months.. Blasting and cruising.. To using all kinda of orals and to using low test cycles and getting multiple blood works done while on and off of the cycles..

many dont want to hear it, theres a tipping point where all bets fly through the window.

and the scientific part is only really useful to study the side effects on lipds etc.for that,its great.

[Wolfox]

I was kind of the same way as you before I took the plunge, basing things on science and how they "should be", but I would never argue with veterans and people that have actually been there and done that, but thats a different topic I guess...

Youll find after your first cycle that science on paper is not how it works IRL. It just isnt.

I also really respect people with a real base, because I did. Thats why I can be "off" for months before really starting to shrivel at all. I tihnk thats where having a base comes in for me. I bet science wouldnt back that up, lol.

Those were 61 REAL human beings in that study. This shit wasn't some test tube crap. This was IRL and documented the scientific way. I can't take anyone who dismisses this study with the argument "IRL its different" seriously. Break it down...attack their methods...their subjects ...missing variables... but to say "irl its different" means absolutely nothing. I can't respect anyone who says that.

I argue with vets all the time because being a vet doesn't mean much. See above. Wrong is wrong - period. Lots of people have abused steroids and spout bro science all day. Vet's make incorrect statements all the time, see Gal's example.

Also, A LOT of these vets giving advice never built a solid foundation so they haven't been through this experience. Lot of these 'gurus' started juicing in their teens ffs. What experience do they have with a solid natural foundation? none.

And when there are people who follow a 'vet's advice then end up regretting it and doing exactly as I say... then well, that says a lot. Multiple people here have done exactly that.


Either way, it's not a big deal. You'll make good gains on 250mg.

[tstmaniac]

many dont want to hear it, theres a tipping point where all bets fly through the window.

and the scientific part is only really useful to study the side effects on lipds etc.for that,its great.

Yes some of us had to find out the hard way.. I still read some of the new studies but mostly to try and become more healthy... I base everything off my experiences and my blood work and how I feel... These days I will only use very mild cycles.. Blasting days are over for me

[Wolfox]

This is an example of a vet being wrong.

its just more water and nothing else

vs


They used DEXA scan and underwater weighing. It doesn't get any better than that.




"To determine whether the apparent changes in fat-free mass by DEXA scan and underwater weighing represented water retention, we measured total body water and compared the ratios of total body water to fat-free mass before and after treatment in each group. The ratios of total body water to fat-free mass by underwater weighing did not significantly change with treatment in any treatment group (Table 3), indicating that the apparent increase in fat-free mass measured by underwater weighing did not represent water retention in excess of that associated with protein accretion."


Lets see, DEXA scan and underwater weighing carried out by scientists and peer reviewed by other scientists...

vs


"its just more water and nothing else" - galeniko



Gal's response is:

nah it doesnt translate to that irl

This is just a blatant disregard for the reality of these 61 men who's results were documented and measured in the most scientific of ways.



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Point is don't hero worship these so called gurus. They are wrong, biased, and often full of shit just like other humans. When they are wrong they are wrong.

[millineum man]

Come on, Wolfox. Just let it go. We understand you are skilled at debating. I started the thread and I asked if anyone had actually used and grew using 250mgs of test a week. No disrespect to you sir, but you have as much practical experience as I do. And that is none. I read the same study you posted on several boards (promuscle, anasci, elitefitness, steroidology, ironmagazine, etc...)for the past 3-4 years. I appreciate all your input, but lets hear from the guys that have actually walked the walk.

[visualizeperfection]

wolfox has it all figured out before he even has done it.


I think he should just take the plunge and start out with a conservative gram a week.


and in 3 months when hes a waterlogged turd he will be turning to more textbooks trying to figure out what went wrong.

[Wolfox]

Come on, Wolfox. Just let it go. We understand you are skilled at debating.

And intellectually superior.  


No offense to anyone, Gal included. He's a good dude, very knowledgeable, but his brain is no match for the Wolfox.

 

but lets hear from the guys that have actually walked the walk.

Agreed. But most guys on most forums would agree that what I recommended is a good first cycle.

[tstmaniac]

And intellectually superior.  


No offense to anyone, Gal included. He's a good dude, very knowledgeable, but his brain is no match for the Wolfox.

 

Agreed. But most guys on most forums would agree that what I recommended is a good first cycle.

The majority of guys on the majority of forums have no idea how to diet and train properly let alone take cycles of steroids

[millineum man]

When I first started researching what to take and how much years ago. Everyone said 250mgs of Sustanon a week. That's when the internet began and everybody started parroting what one guy said 500mgs of test a week or you're just wasting your time. Or you only get one first cycle so make the most of it. Up the dose! I'm sure none of the guys walking the Arnold, Olympia, or even NPC stages had the perfect First Cycle & it hasn't hurt them any.

[Wolfox]

The majority of guys on the majority of forums have no idea how to diet and train properly let alone take cycles of steroids

But they have loads of experience...
















...of how not to do it. 

[tstmaniac]

Lol true

[galeniko]

comes down to this watch those who did it obviously wrong, based on pics, and listen to those who did it obviously right, based on pics.


then comes factor honesty.

if sceptical on everything, gotta try for yourself.

[Simple Simon]

Wolfox believes Burger King burgers taste better than McDonalds because he read a study saying they were, although hes never tasted either.

[visualizeperfection]

Wolfox believes Burger King burgers taste better than McDonalds because he read a study saying they were, although hes never tasted either.

are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?

are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?

further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking cawksucker shut?

cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.

[Simple Simon]

are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?

are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?

further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking guy shut?

cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.

 

[millineum man]

are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?

are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?

further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking cawksucker shut?

cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.

HILARIOUS!!!

[galeniko]

are you suggesting that he has zero real world experience and is simply regurgitating things he has read on various lesser bodybuilding related message boards?

are you also suggesting that he should do something before giving any advice about it?

further, are you also suggesting that if someone has no real world experience on given topic, they should essentially keep their dumb fucking cawksucker shut?

cuz if youre suggesting that, I dare say you might be onto something.

facing the real life epidemic of permabulkers who obviously got something wrong, basing on theory, ill do everythin right.

its like that guy whos given the keys to sportscar yah bro i can handle it, and 10 minutes later its totaled.incoming excuses

[polychronopolous]

facing the real life epidemic of permabulkers who obviously got something wrong, basing on theory, ill do everythin right.

its like that guy whos given the keys to sportscar yah bro i can handle it, and 10 minutes later its totaled.incoming excuses

Gal, on the subject of lower dose...

Once down to 8% what are the pros and cons of running 200mg test only versus 100 mg test plus 200mg tren "blast" for about 4 months or so? Which is better for physique? Are the health issues much worse when a little tren is added into the mix for a few months then taken back to 200 mg test only for a cruise?

[galeniko]

Gal, on the subject of lower dose...

Once down to 8% what are the pros and cons of running 200mg test only versus 100 mg test plus 200mg tren "blast" for about 4 months or so? Which is better for physique? Are the health issues much worse when a little tren is added into the mix for a few months then taken back to 200 mg test only for a cruise?

nah bro that perfectly fine.both, the tren+test is just perfect through summer stack.

cholesterol might go up but nothing too bad,as long bit test is in.

i never run tren bc it gives me tits

[Christo]

well, sure a heavyweight competitor(!) will have to be on a gramm ,give or take.

but this doesnt mean a bloody beginner should start on that dose.or get to that dose within a year,even.

or start on 500mg test first cycle.this is plan stupid.

if 200mg deca weekly will give gains to newcomer, why would they take more.
yes brother ,years of experience and seen the ppl come and go.
few are left over, im still here.healthy,jacked,all good.hell even my hair is still there

i seen the high dosage guys coming and going.failing.one after the other.they ask me man what you take, i tell them 1 test but always, they no believe, bc they on 10times more.
they start lifting, por diet ,2gramms gear, and well nothing happens.all acne.
?
they go off and going off 2 gramms is rdiculously terrible, so bad that many never return, also they open all dors to side efects.for what?

sure the pro sized ppl take plenty. not as much as i read on the internet,though, but anyway,they didnt start out like that.
they built the dose up slowly.

listen to those who look best, who look good year round, for years, never listen to anonymous internet personas.the single one reason why they dont show pics is bc they look like shit

none of that "im running for presdient maybe and cant show pics" is of any value.

and lol dont listen to anyone whos yet to do a cycle.
man,lol, drop the pct, and run that for the whole year,no kidding

10weeks is too little to even kick in truly for the 2 compounds,esp deca.

all year.youre not risking your health with this.its a mild perfetly sane cycle.run it for a year and see where you get.that way you musntnt concern yourself with what next,you know what you do the next 52 weeks.

perfect doses, good choices.

Thanks brother for your reply

You are right yes. there are so many people screaming on the internet, like parrots i think also
You know. i mentioned earlier Big Cat (Biochemist and AAS Guru) always says TestE 500 mg is quite mild and is the reference for future use, but for me it sounds also too much because i dont know how my body will respond to the steroids...

Only one question Gal: you said 52 weeks with this cycle? Do you not think my recovery (and maybe deca dick?) will be very very hard after one year?
For me Blast en Cruise is not an option. so it means going on and off...

Thanks again friend

[Christo]

@Gal: Soory for to bother you again: I forgot 1 question:

Does your body not adapt to the same dose when using it a whole year continuosly? and what about myostatin which can block the grow after time when on. people write that after 8 weeks they do feel less progression on the same dosages?

[Damios]

@Gal: Soory for to bother you again: I forgot 1 question:

Does your body not adapt to the same dose when using it a whole year continuosly? and what about myostatin which can block the grow after time when on. people write that after 8 weeks they do feel less progression on the same dosages?

Christo, come here and check: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=517979.0 

[SamoanIrishman]

take the money you would throw at deca and buy more test and add some dbol for the first month or so

This. You will see good gains with this cruise dose and dbol for first 3wks will give you a nice jump start.. side will be very low if not completely nonexistent. Not to mention need for PCT

[visualizeperfection]

This. You will see good gains with this cruise dose and dbol for first 3wks will give you a nice jump start.. side will be very low if not completely nonexistent. Not to mention need for PCT

I only PCT when I take harsh orals namely superdrol.

test with a superdrol kickstart for the first 2 weeks is like test and dbol without the water, i never recommend supredrol to anyone though, some people get too fucked up, I dont get terrible sides other than a little insomnia on it. First two weeks is always good for like 8 pounds of muscle on maintanence calories if there is such a thing.

the shit used to be OTC, fucking insane.

just straight test, hell no pct. Hcgenerate to keep my peenor like stallion and buck up and keep my ass in the gym. Natural test bounces back quicker than people like to think 

[galeniko]

@Gal: Soory for to bother you again: I forgot 1 question:

Does your body not adapt to the same dose when using it a whole year continuosly? and what about myostatin which can block the grow after time when on. people write that after 8 weeks they do feel less progression on the same dosages?

yeah it maxes out after a while, can then increase cals or gear, but have no interest in any more size