Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Ron on June 30, 2014, 11:28:02 AM
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So Jonathan Bailor thinks that all calories are not created equal. Well.. are they>
If you've ever counted calories then you need to see this! Jonathan Bailor, New York Times best selling author of "The Calorie Myth," shows you why everything you know about counting calories is wrong.
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Jesus Ron did you really have to open up this can of worms again? ;D
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Yes, because I want that freaking piece of cake!
Alan Aragon responds "Quality of calories, not quantity of calories, is the key to healing your body, and dropping fat." <-- That's FALSE. Quality AND quantity both matter. All this kind of rhetoric does is mislead folks into thinking that weight loss (or fat loss) can only be achieved by sticking to a special list of 'allowed' foods. This not only makes people dumber, but it also creates unnecessary food neurosis & obsessiveness - which is self-sabotaging."
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Yes, because I want that freaking piece of cake!
Alan Aragon responds "Quality of calories, not quantity of calories, is the key to healing your body, and dropping fat." <-- That's FALSE. Quality AND quantity both matter. All this kind of rhetoric does is mislead folks into thinking that weight loss (or fat loss) can only be achieved by sticking to a special list of 'allowed' foods. This not only makes people dumber, but it also creates unnecessary food neurosis & obsessiveness - which is self-sabotaging."
OK but does he qualify that statement with any kind of proof?
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Im actually scared that TA is going to see this.
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Holy fuck, the True Adonis bat phone just screeched its emergency alarm!
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Im actually scared that TA is going to see this.
I wish Ron could specifically block it from certain members.
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20 page thread in the making
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Anybody that still believes the hormonal response (insulin) of 100 calories of chocolate cake compared to 100 calories of chicken breast makes no difference in body composition is willfully disregarding quality data.
I still believe it comes down to calories in versus calories out but the macro breakdown of those calories is HUGELY important to optimizing fat loss. Do we really believe that a 2000 calorie diet of twinkies can lead to the same body composition as a 2000 calorie diet of balanced macros? I dont think so. What this guy is saying is not all that revolutionary.
(TA bait set)
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Ron: Do you prefer to eat your cinnamon roll and chocolate milk breakfast before AM cardio or after AM cardio in favor of preserving the much BroHyped fasted state cardio?
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Macro breakdown, not calories. Assuming your fiber and micronutient intake is in check then it's irrelevant.
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I think its important to watch what you eat also cause if you are only watching calories and losing weight by eating junk food and snacks what is that doing to your health.
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I think its important to watch what you eat also cause if you are only watching calories and losing weight by eating junk food and snacks what is that doing to your health.
VERY fucking insightful posts there, the trainer. Thank you for your contributions. So in essence, what you're saying is that you should be mindful of eating pure shit, even if losing weight, because its bad for your health. WOW. Just WOW.
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I think its important to watch what you eat also cause if you are only watching calories and losing weight by eating junk food and snacks what is that doing to your health.
(http://static.frazpc.pl/board/2013/12/261024c1c10cb239.jpg)
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Isn't calorie a calorie only when it comes to looking to improve your athletic ability and strength gains?
If you look to improve your physical abilities you should have meat (balanced with equal amount of greens ) as your protein foundation and the natures own steroids aka desserts and fast food to support the anabolic state along the line.
And when you're dieting you should avoid calorie intake from sugary products and various other fast carb products while generally keeping the meat and veggie intake virtually the same, ain't that right?
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20 page thread in the making
Hahaha sit back and enjoy the ride
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Forget all this calorie counting nonsense
Just eat a third less than you normally do.
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I don't know how to make this any clearer.
for WEIGHT LOSS, IF you are in a calorie deficit, and IF you are taking in enough protein to maintain or create more tissue then it DOES NOT MATTER where the bulk of the remaining cals come from.
any cals consumed in the deficut will go towards being used for fuel. cals do not get stored in a deficit. they get used for fuel. insulin response and all that other bullshit doesn't matter in a deficit.
why do people need to make this so complicated? this isn't rocket science altho all the studies would have you think so.
that being said a whole other topic that is related but has nothing to do with weight loss is are there calories that are better for you then others esp for performance?
yes. I believe there are. I believe some calories burn better and provide better energy. I think grains are a useless calorie that the body can't absorb or utilise properly due to the bastardizaton of the seed. that's why you are seeing so many people w celiac, gluten intotlerance and IBS. I have come to learn thanks to someone who knows a great deal abt nutrition that low gi fruits like strawberry blueberry ripe banana burn better and are more efficient forms of fuel. for me, I feel they just burn cleaner. I don't know how to explain that but after 20 years of listening and paying attention to my body I'm very aware of everybody little chance and I find low gi fruits and 2 LB of green veg a day really making a substantial improvement not just in my energy levels but my physique as well.
I'm looking fwd to this thread. usually when ideas get kicked around like this there's always something to be learned.
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I don't know how to make this any clearer.
for WEIGHT LOSS, IF you are in a calorie deficit, and IF you are taking in enough protein to maintain or create more tissue then it DOES NOT MATTER where the bulk of the remaining cals come from.
any cals consumed in the deficut will go towards being used for fuel. cals do not get stored in a deficit. they get used for fuel. insulin response and all that other bullshit doesn't matter in a deficit.
why do people need to make this so complicated? this isn't rocket science altho all the studies would have you think so.
that being said a whole other topic that is related but has nothing to do with weight loss is are there calories that are better for you then others esp for performance?
yes. I believe there are. I believe some calories burn better and provide better energy. I think grains are a useless calorie that the body can't absorb or utilise properly due to the bastardizaton of the seed. that's why you are seeing so many people w celiac, gluten intotlerance and IBS. I have come to learn thanks to someone who knows a great deal abt nutrition that low gi fruits like strawberry blueberry ripe banana burn better and are more efficient forms of fuel. for me, I feel they just burn cleaner. I don't know how to explain that but after 20 years of listening and paying attention to my body I'm very aware of everybody little chance and I find low gi fruits and 2 LB of green veg a day really making a substantial improvement not just in my energy levels but my physique as well.
I'm looking fwd to this thread. usually when ideas get kicked around like this there's always something to be learned.
Thank fuck for that. Your in a deficit....everything you eat is being used...get your protein...it don't matter where your carbs or fat come from. If ur non retarded then you'll eat foods that satisfy you and give you energy to train hard.
Jesus. Get protein. Eat less calories than you normally do. The end
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Yes, because I want that freaking piece of cake!
Alan Aragon responds "Quality of calories, not quantity of calories, is the key to healing your body, and dropping fat." <-- That's FALSE. Quality AND quantity both matter. All this kind of rhetoric does is mislead folks into thinking that weight loss (or fat loss) can only be achieved by sticking to a special list of 'allowed' foods. This not only makes people dumber, but it also creates unnecessary food neurosis & obsessiveness - which is self-sabotaging."
meltdown
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His argument is that because calories in/out doesn't work mathematically, the theory is false.
What he misses is that calories in/out is more like the Demand Curve in Economics.
If Apple were to raise the price of IPhones by 10%, you can't say for sure what the effect will be, but if Apple continues to do this on a weekly basis, demand for IPhones will eventually fall.
Same with calories. If you increase your caloric intake by 10% each week, eventually you will be a fat fvck.
Sorry, in the end it comes down to discipline, no matter what these dietary gurus say.
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His argument is that because calories in/out doesn't adhere work mathematically, the theory is false.
What he misses is that calories in/out is more like the Demand Curve in Economics.
If Apple were to raise the price of IPhones by 10%, you can't say for sure what the effect will be, but if Apple continues to do this on a weekly basis, demand for IPhones will eventually fall.
Same with calories. If you increase your caloric intake by 10% each week, eventually you will be a fat fvck.
Sorry, in the end it comes down to discipline, no matter what these dietary gurus say.
What the fuck are you on about?
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What the fuck are you on about?
lol :D
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His argument is that because calories in/out doesn't work mathematically, the theory is false.
What he misses is that calories in/out is more like the Demand Curve in Economics.
If Apple were to raise the price of IPhones by 10%, you can't say for sure what the effect will be, but if Apple continues to do this on a weekly basis, demand for IPhones will eventually fall.
Same with calories. If you increase your caloric intake by 10% each week, eventually you will be a fat fvck.
Sorry, in the end it comes down to discipline, no matter what these dietary gurus say.
So I should eat my I phone
Cheer s bro
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So I should eat my I phone
Cheer s bro
Not if the price calories go up by 10%
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haha Ron this is a bbing board you should know this by now
only one that submits to that "theory" is TA
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:D
I enjoy reading the responses so I will refrain from now.
Nothing ever changes around here it seems.
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Falcon will disagree.
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TA smiling in satans chamber at the potential of this thread
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:D
I enjoy reading the responses so I will refrain from now.
Nothing ever changes around here it seems.
Weak. The almighty TA is all washed up. Just a tired old man with no fight left in him.
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Not if the price calories go up by 10%
Is an Iphone full of data more calories? ???
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This is going to be good. To people like Disgusted and myself, Bailor is preaching to choir and dead on as by the looks of his age, we've been practicing this for more than 30 years. The difference is now, people like TA don't know any better. We knew way back when that any screw up with the wrong foods would unravel all efforts put forth. You can't be on protein and vegetables for 8, 10 or 12 weeks then all of the sudden replace the vegetables with calories of shit and expect the same results. This is where insulin comes in.
I like no one and enjoy reading his posts, but he's wrong on this. As for TA...as usual with anything, he's wrong and having a fit. lol
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id like to see how long TA could stick to his specific calorie base while working on a house
TA is a good guy just hard headed like the rest of us and unwilling to change, he was right about my cherry trees too its not all hate against TA we are all yung neegul falcons here we can handle a bit of realism 8)
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id like to see how long TA could stick to his specific calorie base while working on a house
TA is a good guy just hard headed like the rest of us and unwilling to change, he was right about my cherry trees too its not all hate against TA we are all yung neegul falcons here we can handle a bit of realism 8)
This would be a good lesson for him. He could easily do that with eating all of the shit he says he eats for carbs but the second you replace those shit foods with the same amount of calories with vegetables, he would drop within a day depending on much fat he's carrying.
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id like to see how long TA could stick to his specific calorie base while working on a house
TA is a good guy just hard headed like the rest of us and unwilling to change, he was right about my cherry trees too its not all hate against TA we are all yung neegul falcons here we can handle a bit of realism 8)
???
2400-3500 calories is low calorie to you?
How many do you eat?
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This would be a good lesson for him. He could easily do that with eating all of the shit he says he eats for carbs but the second you replace those shit foods with the same amount of calories with vegetables, he would drop within a day depending on much fat he's carrying.
I already did those approaches and they suck. They get me to my goal no quicker so what is the point?
Shit food? What is so shit about Chocolate Pumpkin Mousse Pie? I bet you haven`t eaten anything that good in years.
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???
2400-3500 calories is low calorie to you?
How many do you eat?
i think carpentry would beat you up too much eating cheeseburgers you would have a bad back and knees like the rest of the carpenters and plumbers i know
you have to really eat smart doing manual labor not stupid food like burgers and steaks and expect to keep your hair and knees and back feeling good. its just what ive witnessed bro
im sure you could cut it for a few weeks and then you realize that type of food is inferior for healing the body
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I agree with TA and no one
Did their methods and no difference to me than eating clean chicken breast
Fuck dieting!!
GH + test + deca + KFC + Pizza Hut + tres leches cake 8)
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This is going to be good. To people like Disgusted and myself, Bailor is preaching to choir and dead on as by the looks of his age, we've been practicing this for more than 30 years. The difference is now, people like TA don't know any better. We knew way back when that any screw up with the wrong foods would unravel all efforts put forth. You can't be on protein and vegetables for 8, 10 or 12 weeks then all of the sudden replace the vegetables with calories of shit and expect the same results. This is where insulin comes in.
I like no one and enjoy reading his posts, but he's wrong on this. As for TA...as usual with anything, he's wrong and having a fit. lol
I like you too dude. no homo.
k so tell me why I'm wrong. I'm not using studies to back my proof of claim, or what might happen if you eat such and such. I'm basing my opinion on experience.
I eat like shit. I have good days but my bad days outweigh my good days greatly. I probably smash pizza twice a week. I'm not talking a slice or two. I mean XLs. ice cream like it's an addiction. yet I'm walking around at a bf level most people will strive to accomplish and not come within a few percent and I'm holding 235lbs of lean tissue on less that 500mgs a week for the past year and a half so it's not the anabolics creating this environment given it took me 2g to create it.
how is that possible to eat 'those cals' and be lean and hold good tissue? am I a genetic anomaly? fuck I've got the WORST genetics in the world. everything I've built I busted my ass for. if my metabolism were any slower it would be on life support.
I stand by my original post word for word. for weightloss in a deficit as long as protein requirements are being met it doesn't matter where the rest of the cals come from.
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Not this bullshit again PLEASE!! :D
Chicken breasts over donuts,for the best looking body even if cals are equaled in both amounts.
How can anyone even begin to dispute this?
^^Rhetorical question,don`t fucking bother answering. ;D
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I like you too dude. no homo.
k so tell me why I'm wrong. I'm not using studies to back my proof of claim, or what might happen if you eat such and such. I'm basing my opinion on experience.
I eat like shit. I have good days but my bad days outweigh my good days greatly. I probably smash pizza twice a week. I'm not talking a slice or two. I mean XLs. ice cream like it's an addiction. yet I'm walking around at a bf level most people will strive to accomplish and not come within a few percent and I'm holding 235lbs of lean tissue on less that 500mgs a week for the past year and a half so it's not the anabolics creating this environment given it took me 2g to create it.
how is that possible to eat 'those cals' and be lean and hold good tissue? am I a genetic anomaly? fuck I've got the WORST genetics in the world. everything I've built I busted my ass for. if my metabolism were any slower it would be on life support.
I stand by my original post word for word. for weightloss in a deficit as long as protein requirements are being met it doesn't matter where the rest of the cals come from.
Some people will never get it my friend.
Everyone still thinks I am lying and its been years and years. I predate the IIFYM crowd and all the rest even. Still, they don`t believe.
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I like you too dude. no homo.
k so tell me why I'm wrong. I'm not using studies to back my proof of claim, or what might happen if you eat such and such. I'm basing my opinion on experience.
I eat like shit. I have good days but my bad days outweigh my good days greatly. I probably smash pizza twice a week. I'm not talking a slice or two. I mean XLs. ice cream like it's an addiction. yet I'm walking around at a bf level most people will strive to accomplish and not come within a few percent and I'm holding 235lbs of lean tissue on less that 500mgs a week for the past year and a half so it's not the anabolics creating this environment given it took me 2g to create it.
how is that possible to eat 'those cals' and be lean and hold good tissue? am I a genetic anomaly? fuck I've got the WORST genetics in the world. everything I've built I busted my ass for. if my metabolism were any slower it would be on life support.
I stand by my original post word for word. for weightloss in a deficit as long as protein requirements are being met it doesn't matter where the rest of the cals come from.
I`m ashamed of you ! LOL ;D
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In fact,I`m ashamed of all of you.
< *grabs more pie and ice cream in disgust* >
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Holy fuck, the True Adonis bat phone just screeched its emergency alarm!
Lolz! Thought the same thing. If he's batman, who's robin? Daddywaddy?
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This is going to be good. To people like Disgusted and myself, Bailor is preaching to choir and dead on as by the looks of his age, we've been practicing this for more than 30 years. The difference is now, people like TA don't know any better. We knew way back when that any screw up with the wrong foods would unravel all efforts put forth. You can't be on protein and vegetables for 8, 10 or 12 weeks then all of the sudden replace the vegetables with calories of shit and expect the same results. This is where insulin comes in.
I like no one and enjoy reading his posts, but he's wrong on this. As for TA...as usual with anything, he's wrong and having a fit. lol
The problem with your argument is that by replacing the veggies with "shit" you will certainly be increasing the caloric intake.
What you need to explain, if you're capable of doing so, is why 300 calories of baked potato will make you fatter than 300 calories of donuts.
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Forget all this calorie counting nonsense
Just eat a third less than you normally do.
x2
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I`m ashamed of you ! LOL ;D
lol i love you bro!
ya man like you ive tried it all. several times. the high fibre/ high protein no fats diet. the high protein/ carb cycling no fats diet. the ketogenic diet. everything under the sun.
and i found what works for me, is a good protein source- i dont even count protein anymore truthfully- and then round out the rest of my cals with whatever my body craves. some days i'll do 2lbs of veg breast and chicken breast and stay <1500 cals. other days i start out good, then my body starts demanding things like ice cream. :D
what i have found is that im fuller, leaner and denser than when i used to diet more 'strictly'. truthfully i dont even call what i do now dieting. i dont diet. i dont count cals, i eat as i please and i train my ass off and smash the shit out of my mountain bike. i just feel better.
i will say this tho, for performance i have noticed a huge benefit in eating the foods i mentioned in my first post. grains are boggy and slow me down etc.
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I agree with TA and no one
Did their methods and no difference to me than eating clean chicken breast
Fuck dieting!!
GH + test + deca + KFC + Pizza Hut + tres leches cake 8)
ya man, and if your not running gh, which is very forgiving, cardio does a nice job of cleaning things up. i havent used gh now in over a year. i dont miss it, and i dont think ive lost anything from not using it.
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Yes, because I want that freaking piece of cake!
Alan Aragon responds "Quality of calories, not quantity of calories, is the key to healing your body, and dropping fat." <-- That's FALSE. Quality AND quantity both matter. All this kind of rhetoric does is mislead folks into thinking that weight loss (or fat loss) can only be achieved by sticking to a special list of 'allowed' foods. This not only makes people dumber, but it also creates unnecessary food neurosis & obsessiveness - which is self-sabotaging."
I think that a great deal depends upon what you do with them. If you ate 5,000 calories a day of "healthy" food and didn't exercise and laid around watching TV and other high effort pastimes , you would probably get just as fat and disgusting as you would eating 5,000 calories a day of junk food. You might not get diabetes, but you would still get FAT.
So in that manner, yes. A calorie is a calorie.
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Anybody that still believes the hormonal response (insulin) of 100 calories of chocolate cake compared to 100 calories of chicken breast makes no difference in body composition is willfully disregarding quality data.
I still believe it comes down to calories in versus calories out but the macro breakdown of those calories is HUGELY important to optimizing fat loss. Do we really believe that a 2000 calorie diet of twinkies can lead to the same body composition as a 2000 calorie diet of balanced macros? I dont think so. What this guy is saying is not all that revolutionary.
(TA bait set)
I agree
Has it ever been proven that EVERY excess calorie you eat gets stored in the body? That your body can't just say "naaa, don't need that" and that the macronutrient content plays no part?
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I agree
Has it ever been proven that EVERY excess calorie you eat gets stored in the body? That your body can't just say "naaa, don't need that" and that the macronutrient content plays no part?
in a deficit why would there be excess calories?
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in a deficit why would there be excess calories?
So "All calories are equal" only applies when you are in deficit?
When you eat excess, there's no chance that the result is impacted by the type of food you ate vs the caloric content?
Even for dieters - they are gonna fall off the wagon sometimes & eat too much. The macronutrients are irrelevant?
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So "All calories are equal" only applies when you are in deficit?
When you eat excess, there's no chance that the result is impacted by the type of food you ate vs the caloric content?
Even for dieters - they are gonna fall off the wagon sometimes & eat too much. The macronutrients are irrelevant?
I'm not talking about eating excess. I'm talking abt a deficit.
you think deficits work that way? lol if you eat a 1500cal surplus Monday you'll gain half a pound of fat despite being in a deficit the other 6 days a week? how is it then guys lose 3 lbs a week yet still have cheat days that would total in calories enough to negate the deficit ran all week?
weak logic bro.
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I'm not talking about eating excess. I'm talking abt a deficit.
you think deficits work that way? lol if you eat a 1500cal surplus Monday you'll gain half a pound of fat despite being in a deficit the other 6 days a week? how is it then guys lose 3 lbs a week yet still have cheat days that would total in calories enough to negate the deficit ran all week?
weak logic bro.
All calories are clearly not equal then.
The fact is when you run a deficit you lose weight. That does not mean all calories are equal. It just means that when you burn more calories than you eat, you lose weight.
That's physics.
This does NOT mean that all calories are equal. Far from it. That is why you avoid discussing the impact of macronutrients when in excess. It breaks down your argument.
Fact is - on a diet, you get to consume a greater quantity of food if you eat clean and you end up more satisfied. You do not trigger an insulin response where the following sugar crash that makes you hungry for more sugary food.
So go knock yourself out and have a mars bar for breakfast, I'll have a bowl of fruit & some natural yoghurt. I won't be the one pining for more food 30 minutes later. I'll also be getting more important micronutrients from the food.
But hey - knock yourself out. It's your body.
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But the question that remains: IS a calorie just a calorie?
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All calories are clearly not equal then.
The fact is when you run a deficit you lose weight. That does not mean all calories are equal. It just means that when you burn more calories than you eat, you lose weight.
That's physics.
This does NOT mean that all calories are equal. Far from it. That is why you avoid discussing the impact of macronutrients when in excess. It breaks down your argument.
Fact is - on a diet, you get to consume a greater quantity of food if you eat clean and you end up more satisfied. You do not trigger an insulin response where the following sugar crash that makes you hungry for more sugary food.
So go knock yourself out and have a mars bar for breakfast, I'll have a bowl of fruit & some natural yoghurt. I won't be the one pining for more food 30 minutes later. I'll also be getting more important micronutrients from the food.
But hey - knock yourself out. It's your body.
are you retarded? what the fuck do you think 'burning more calories than you eat' means? oh thats right. a calorie deficit.
as for mars bars for breakfast, stud, if we both are both eating 1500 cal diets and burning 2 k cal a day do you honestly think your 'yogurt and fruit' breakfast choice is going to make you leaner than me? hahaha fuck we got a live one here
anyway, tips, i seem to be doing ok thanks for your concern. I'll look you up when I want to suffer thru 'eating clean' and other such archaic bullshit.
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In fact,I`m ashamed of all of you.
< *grabs more pie and ice cream in disgust* >
lol
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are you retarded? what the fuck do you think 'burning more calories than you eat' means? oh thats right. a calorie deficit.
as for mars bars for breakfast, stud, if we both are both eating 1500 cal diets and burning 2 k cal a day do you honestly think your 'yogurt and fruit' breakfast choice is going to make you leaner than me? hahaha fuck we got a live one here
anyway, tips, i seem to be doing ok thanks for your concern. I'll look you up when I want to suffer thru 'eating clean' and other such archaic bullshit.
Not leaner , but he will have strong finger nails and lovely shiney hair.
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lol i love you bro!
ya man like you ive tried it all. several times. the high fibre/ high protein no fats diet. the high protein/ carb cycling no fats diet. the ketogenic diet. everything under the sun.
and i found what works for me, is a good protein source- i dont even count protein anymore truthfully- and then round out the rest of my cals with whatever my body craves. some days i'll do 2lbs of veg breast and chicken breast and stay <1500 cals. other days i start out good, then my body starts demanding things like ice cream. :D
what i have found is that im fuller, leaner and denser than when i used to diet more 'strictly'. truthfully i dont even call what i do now dieting. i dont diet. i dont count cals, i eat as i please and i train my ass off and smash the shit out of my mountain bike. i just feel better.
i will say this tho, for performance i have noticed a huge benefit in eating the foods i mentioned in my first post. grains are boggy and slow me down etc.
Love ya` too dude. (Complete and utter homosexual) ;D
I agree with you up to a point,but I also feel that certain compounds will allow a person to stay leaner or to just look better if adding "junkfood" to the diet.
One thing I know to be certain is that once you get down to between 4-6 % bodyfat,you can get away with a lot more dietwise than some fat fuck who is stuck at 22 % bodyfat.............natt y or enchanced,being lean at the outset,allows a person a lot more leeway as far as eating is concerned,even if a deficit isn`t present on a daily or weekly totalled basis consistantly.
Also,from my experience,when lean or very lean,ice cream and such foods over starchy carbs like rice or potatoes acts in much the same way.......a re-feed or carb replenishment if you will.
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Love ya` too dude. (Complete and utter homosexual) ;D
I agree with you up to a point,but I also feel that certain compounds will allow a person to stay leaner or to just look better if adding "junkfood" to the diet.
One thing I know to be certain is that once you get down to between 4-6 % bodyfat,you can get away with a lot more dietwise than some fat fuck who is stuck at 22 % bodyfat.............natt y or enchanced,being lean at the outset,allows a person a lot more leeway as far as eating is concerned,even if a deficit isn`t present on a daily or weekly totalled basis consistantly.
Also,from my experience,when lean or very lean,ice cream and such foods over starchy carbs like rice or potatoes acts in much the same way.......a re-feed or carb replenishment if you will.
yes brother. in agreement 100% with this entire post.
it's like Simon says tho to be honest. the 'average' trainer is going to diet their whole lives and never attain a bf level that they are happy with. very few of us can actually say 'damn I nailed it'. those of us who can say it know their bodies extremely well, know when to dump some extra cals in when they are flat and weak and when to throttle down then they over carb and start to hold water. it's finding that balance that dictates if your ever going to get there let alone maintain it.
oh back to Simon I got of track- like he says the average person for weight loss would prolly be much further ahead taking their existing cals of whatever it is they are eating and cut it by a 1/3. very few have the mental strength to grind out several weeks of chicken and broccoli.
but I think if you can find a balance and a place between the chicken and the broccoli and the pizzas and coronas then there's no reason you can't maintain a respectable level of bf and still carry heaps of tissue if you bust your ass in the gym and smash some cardio.
I will say this. I know myself I'm 2-3 weeks of chicken and broccoli from <5%. and I know that's what I have to do to get there as the game changes at 6 and lower. could I do it on pizza? I don't think I could hold this tissue once I go lower if I did. there's a trade off then between cals in vs cals needed. once you restrict cals to the point that <5 is achievable I cant take in half my cals from pizza when the bulk needs to be protein.
but I think anyone can hit 6% - and how many people do you see walking around 6%? lol very few- but I know 6 can be done without getting too strict and just eating what you wish and running a deficit.
as for me and <5%. I doubt it'll ever happen. I can't say for sure it won't. it's just that I have no desire to give up nachos pizza coronas and other such things to get it. life's about balance. I've found a healthy one. could I do it? lol fuck ya. but for what? life's too short my brother to not love food. for me it's one of the simplest pleasures in life.
I gotta stand firm on my belief you can hit a very respectable bf level (6%) and be extremely active and still love life.
I find we over complicate it. everyone argues about insulin levels and all that bullshit. but most will never see 6% let alone 8 or maintain it. cut your cals down. stop worrying about insulin and making it more complicated than it needs to be. do your cardio. train your ass off. enjoy fucking life. eat when hungry and eat less meals in a day. you'd be amazed at what you'll accomplish just doing the simple things before you need to jump into a regimen of breast and broccoli.
at the end of the day diets don't work. they work for 8 weeks or 12 weeks. lifestyle changes work for a lifetime.
cheers my friend. nice chatting w you.
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yes brother. in agreement 100% with this entire post.
it's like Simon says tho to be honest. the 'average' trainer is going to diet their whole lives and never attain a bf level that they are happy with. very few of us can actually say 'damn I nailed it'. those of us who can say it know their bodies extremely well, know when to dump some extra cals in when they are flat and weak and when to throttle down then they over carb and start to hold water. it's finding that balance that dictates if your ever going to get there let alone maintain it.
oh back to Simon I got of track- like he says the average person for weight loss would prolly be much further ahead taking their existing cals of whatever it is they are eating and cut it by a 1/3. very few have the mental strength to grind out several weeks of chicken and broccoli.
but I think if you can find a balance and a place between the chicken and the broccoli and the pizzas and coronas then there's no reason you can't maintain a respectable level of bf and still carry heaps of tissue if you bust your ass in the gym and smash some cardio.
I will say this. I know myself I'm 2-3 weeks of chicken and broccoli from <5%. and I know that's what I have to do to get there as the game changes at 6 and lower. could I do it on pizza? I don't think I could hold this tissue once I go lower if I did. there's a trade off then between cals in vs cals needed. once you restrict cals to the point that <5 is achievable I cant take in half my cals from pizza when the bulk needs to be protein.
but I think anyone can hit 6% - and how many people do you see walking around 6%? lol very few- but I know 6 can be done without getting too strict and just eating what you wish and running a deficit.
as for me and <5%. I doubt it'll ever happen. I can't say for sure it won't. it's just that I have no desire to give up nachos pizza coronas and other such things to get it. life's about balance. I've found a healthy one. could I do it? lol fuck ya. but for what? life's too short my brother to not love food. for me it's one of the simplest pleasures in life.
I gotta stand firm on my belief you can hit a very respectable bf level (6%) and be extremely active and still love life.
I find we over complicate it. everyone argues about insulin levels and all that bullshit. but most will never see 6% let alone 8 or maintain it. cut your cals down. stop worrying about insulin and making it more complicated than it needs to be. do your cardio. train your ass off. enjoy fucking life. eat when hungry and eat less meals in a day. you'd be amazed at what you'll accomplish just doing the simple things before you need to jump into a regimen of breast and broccoli.
at the end of the day diets don't work. they work for 8 weeks or 12 weeks. lifestyle changes work for a lifetime.
cheers my friend. nice chatting w you.
Agrred, especially the bolded bit.
I live the lifestyle, I eat well, chicken, steak, eggs, oats, I also eat normally, tonight its lamb chops and fried potato chips.
One meal a day of what I like and I can still maintain a decent BF level.
Also I know Im only 5 weeks away fro 5/6% if I want to get there quick, I can also get there slowly as well, less stress and short temper. ;D
The reason most dieters look like shit is that they are either all or nothing.
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are you retarded? what the fuck do you think 'burning more calories than you eat' means? oh thats right. a calorie deficit.
as for mars bars for breakfast, stud, if we both are both eating 1500 cal diets and burning 2 k cal a day do you honestly think your 'yogurt and fruit' breakfast choice is going to make you leaner than me? hahaha fuck we got a live one here
anyway, tips, i seem to be doing ok thanks for your concern. I'll look you up when I want to suffer thru 'eating clean' and other such archaic bullshit.
No - I am not retarded.
Your argument is thus: "A calorie is just a calorie".
Yet you can only frame this in a situation where you are in deficit. Honestly, it's not much of a theory if it only applies when you are starving yourself. In any other situation - "a calorie is just a calorie" breaks down and you call someone a retard because they want to look at it from different angles.
You yourself asked why someone on a diet that consumed 1500 excess calories in a day didn't add half a pound of fat. This is an odd question from someone that should know about the body replacing glycogen stores.
In the ""A Calorie is just a calorie" model, can you explain how people that eat well do not put on OR lose weight? Is it because they somehow manage to eat EXACTLY the amount of calories they burn each day and therefore maintain a specific weight?
Or is it because they eat cleanly and their bodies just pass out what they don't need? Do you have an explanation for a non-calorie counter maintaining their weight?
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No - I am not retarded.
Your argument is thus: "A calorie is just a calorie".
Yet you can only frame this in a situation where you are in deficit. Honestly, it's not much of a theory if it only applies when you are starving yourself. In any other situation - "a calorie is just a calorie" breaks down and you call someone a retard because they want to look at it from different angles.
You yourself asked why someone on a diet that consumed 1500 excess calories in a day didn't add half a pound of fat. This is an odd question from someone that should know about the body replacing glycogen stores.
In the ""A Calorie is just a calorie" model, can you explain how people that eat well do not put on OR lose weight? Is it because they somehow manage to eat EXACTLY the amount of calories they burn each day and therefore maintain a specific weight?
Or is it because they eat cleanly and their bodies just pass out what they don't need? Do you have an explanation for a non-calorie counter maintaining their weight?
no dude. I call you retarted cause the entire time I read posts like this im asking myself what the fuck is he talking about.
like honestly. I read this post 3 times. I still don't know what the fuck your talking about.
models and non calorie counter maintaining holy fuck you'd give an aspirn a headache.
good luck bro sounds like you got it figured out. lol I can't debate stupid.
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I'm talking about LOSING WEIGHT. not maintaining. not anything other than WEIGHT LOSS.
why is this so hard for you to understand? like is it that complicated to you that I am stating in a DEFICIT which is REQUIRED for WEIGHT LOSS that any cals consumed apart from your protein intake goes towards being used for fuel?
WHAT IN THE FUCK are you going on about maintaining weight? this isn't about maintaining. it's about WEIGHT LOSS and the role of calories in a deficit.
Jesus Christ what's so complicated about that.
me: in a deficit a calorie is a calorie.
you : not it's not cause you can't explain how a person maintains a healthy weight just eating well.
lol Jesus Christ no wonder I get frustrated.
fuck your dense eh?
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But the question that remains: IS a calorie just a calorie?
One way it isn't is in satiety.
A lot easier to eat 2k calories of Ben & Jerry's than water-packed tuna.
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I'm talking about LOSING WEIGHT. not maintaining. not anything other than WEIGHT LOSS.
why is this so hard for you to understand? like is it that complicated to you that I am stating in a DEFICIT which is REQUIRED for WEIGHT LOSS that any cals consumed apart from your protein intake goes towards being used for fuel?
WHAT IN THE FUCK are you going on about maintaining weight? this isn't about maintaining. it's about WEIGHT LOSS and the role of calories in a deficit.
Jesus Christ what's so complicated about that.
me: in a deficit a calorie is a calorie.
you : not it's not cause you can't explain how a person maintains a healthy weight just eating well.
lol Jesus Christ no wonder I get frustrated.
fuck your dense eh?
I think I know what that dude is trying to get at. I myself eat really inconsistently in regards to calories. Sometimes 2500 or sometimes 6000. Lately a jar of pb several times a weak(190cals x 14 servings). But I havent been gaining any weight. Just water. Then Ill come down to around 1500-2000 cals a day,lower carbs,for a day or two and drop the water. I also fast 16-20 hours quite often and never eat breakfast. Point being is Im just trying to maintain what I currenty have. When I over eat,which is quite often around 4000-5000 cals a day,all I notice is water retention and taking huge dumps. Im also very active during my fasted times which I think helps hold off too much fat accumulation.
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Also popped a xanax half an hour ago so no idea if I make sense 8)
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But the question that remains: IS a calorie just a calorie?
Yes it is
Just like a buffalo is just a buffalo 8)
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yes brother. in agreement 100% with this entire post.
it's like Simon says tho to be honest. the 'average' trainer is going to diet their whole lives and never attain a bf level that they are happy with. very few of us can actually say 'damn I nailed it'. those of us who can say it know their bodies extremely well, know when to dump some extra cals in when they are flat and weak and when to throttle down then they over carb and start to hold water. it's finding that balance that dictates if your ever going to get there let alone maintain it.
oh back to Simon I got of track- like he says the average person for weight loss would prolly be much further ahead taking their existing cals of whatever it is they are eating and cut it by a 1/3. very few have the mental strength to grind out several weeks of chicken and broccoli.
but I think if you can find a balance and a place between the chicken and the broccoli and the pizzas and coronas then there's no reason you can't maintain a respectable level of bf and still carry heaps of tissue if you bust your ass in the gym and smash some cardio.
I will say this. I know myself I'm 2-3 weeks of chicken and broccoli from <5%. and I know that's what I have to do to get there as the game changes at 6 and lower. could I do it on pizza? I don't think I could hold this tissue once I go lower if I did. there's a trade off then between cals in vs cals needed. once you restrict cals to the point that <5 is achievable I cant take in half my cals from pizza when the bulk needs to be protein.
but I think anyone can hit 6% - and how many people do you see walking around 6%? lol very few- but I know 6 can be done without getting too strict and just eating what you wish and running a deficit.
as for me and <5%. I doubt it'll ever happen. I can't say for sure it won't. it's just that I have no desire to give up nachos pizza coronas and other such things to get it. life's about balance. I've found a healthy one. could I do it? lol fuck ya. but for what? life's too short my brother to not love food. for me it's one of the simplest pleasures in life.
I gotta stand firm on my belief you can hit a very respectable bf level (6%) and be extremely active and still love life.
I find we over complicate it. everyone argues about insulin levels and all that bullshit. but most will never see 6% let alone 8 or maintain it. cut your cals down. stop worrying about insulin and making it more complicated than it needs to be. do your cardio. train your ass off. enjoy fucking life. eat when hungry and eat less meals in a day. you'd be amazed at what you'll accomplish just doing the simple things before you need to jump into a regimen of breast and broccoli.
at the end of the day diets don't work. they work for 8 weeks or 12 weeks. lifestyle changes work for a lifetime.
cheers my friend. nice chatting w you.
Good post......gotta` agree with you here for sure.
Actually,I agree with 99% of your posts on training and diet,as I`m pretty much of the same mindset,but I have to play devils advocate and be an asshole once in a while. ;)
Enjoy your "Thomas Jefferson Hummingbird Cake" ;D
Later buddy!
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Good post......gotta` agree with you here for sure.
Actually,I agree with 99% of your posts on training and diet,as I`m pretty much of the same mindset,but I have to play devils advocate and be an asshole once in a while. ;)
Enjoy your "Thomas Jefferson Hummingbird Cake" ;D
Later buddy!
get your ass back in the gym wes
its time!
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get your ass back in the gym wes
its time!
You`re telling me...........I`m starting to look like shit ! :(
Gonna` try to get it back together Monday morning..........at least maybe train light a bit at home until I get rid of the initial soreness,then get my ass back in the gym.
Foot In The Ass Of Peace ;D
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are you retarded? what the fuck do you think 'burning more calories than you eat' means? oh thats right. a calorie deficit.
as for mars bars for breakfast, stud, if we both are both eating 1500 cal diets and burning 2 k cal a day do you honestly think your 'yogurt and fruit' breakfast choice is going to make you leaner than me? hahaha fuck we got a live one here
anyway, tips, i seem to be doing ok thanks for your concern. I'll look you up when I want to suffer thru 'eating clean' and other such archaic bullshit.
OK - here's what you are missing.
Take 2 people.
Person 1 eats 1500 cals of chocolate every day
Person 2 eats 1500 cals of cabbage every day
Person 2 will lose more weight.
Mostly because the calorie content in food is just that - the stored energy in that food. It is not equal to the amount of energy your body will get from that food as a result of digesting it.
In addition to that, there is also energy expended during the digestion process that is also not equal for all foods.
So the person eating the cabbage will actually have net less calories after consumption that the person eating chocolate.
Both will lose weight. The guy eating cabbage will lose more. Total calories eaten is the same.
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I'm talking about LOSING WEIGHT. not maintaining. not anything other than WEIGHT LOSS.
Yes - and you say that a "calorie is just a calorie" when it clearly is not.
If you said "eating less calories than you consumed will lead to weight loss, regardless of what you eat" - I would agree.
To say the amount of weight loss would be equal regardless of the food eaten is simply not true.
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Not this bullshit again PLEASE!! :D
Chicken breasts over donuts,for the best looking body even if cals are equaled in both amounts.
How can anyone even begin to dispute this?
^^Rhetorical question,don`t fucking bother answering. ;D
Just like bonking 20 yo pussy or 66 yo grandma, ;D
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I heard that almost half of Americans feel the need to eat gluten free, its become a massive fad. Its popular in Ireland and England too.
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I don't know how to make this any clearer.
for WEIGHT LOSS, IF you are in a calorie deficit, and IF you are taking in enough protein to maintain or create more tissue then it DOES NOT MATTER where the bulk of the remaining cals come from.
any cals consumed in the deficut will go towards being used for fuel. cals do not get stored in a deficit. they get used for fuel. insulin response and all that other bullshit doesn't matter in a deficit.
why do people need to make this so complicated? this isn't rocket science altho all the studies would have you think so.
that being said a whole other topic that is related but has nothing to do with weight loss is are there calories that are better for you then others esp for performance?
yes. I believe there are. I believe some calories burn better and provide better energy. I think grains are a useless calorie that the body can't absorb or utilise properly due to the bastardizaton of the seed. that's why you are seeing so many people w celiac, gluten intotlerance and IBS. I have come to learn thanks to someone who knows a great deal abt nutrition that low gi fruits like strawberry blueberry ripe banana burn better and are more efficient forms of fuel. for me, I feel they just burn cleaner. I don't know how to explain that but after 20 years of listening and paying attention to my body I'm very aware of everybody little chance and I find low gi fruits and 2 LB of green veg a day really making a substantial improvement not just in my energy levels but my physique as well.
I'm looking fwd to this thread. usually when ideas get kicked around like this there's always something to be learned.
So why diets like high carbs/low fat are hating day in day out even when it is still calories deficit?
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So for example:
1) 300g Proteins / 300g Carbs / 40g Fats = ~2760cals
2) 300g Proteins / 50g Carbs / 150g Fats = ~2760cals
1st = bullshit diet for 90% people here, impossible to cut and be shredded
2nd = awesome diet for 90% people here, you will be lean as fuck
So... if deficit is deficit what is fking difference?
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So for example:
1) 300g Proteins / 300g Carbs / 40g Fats = ~2760cals
2) 300g Proteins / 50g Carbs / 150g Fats = ~2760cals
1st = bullshit diet for 90% people here, impossible to cut and be shredded
2nd = awesome diet for 90% people here, you will be lean as fuck
So... if deficit is deficit what is fking difference?
Too many calories TBH.
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So for example:
1) 300g Proteins / 300g Carbs / 40g Fats = ~2760cals
2) 300g Proteins / 50g Carbs / 150g Fats = ~2760cals
1st = bullshit diet for 90% people here, impossible to cut and be shredded
2nd = awesome diet for 90% people here, you will be lean as fuck
So... if deficit is deficit what is fking difference?
The difference is way over your head, mate.
First off, that will be too many calories to get in shape.
Second, weight loss often is not equal to fat loss.
You, eat too much for what you are and take too much gear for what you are.
You will never look good if you keep lying to yourself.
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I saw on FB (I "follow" Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald) and saw something about the vid
being pulled because it was full of shit. I didn't care enough to watch it but if Alan and Lyle say it's shit it's pretty safe to say it's shit. :D
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So for example:
1) 300g Proteins / 300g Carbs / 40g Fats = ~2760cals
2) 300g Proteins / 50g Carbs / 150g Fats = ~2760cals
1st = bullshit diet for 90% people here, impossible to cut and be shredded
2nd = awesome diet for 90% people here, you will be lean as fuck
So... if deficit is deficit what is fking difference?
too much protein in option diet # 2 (both actually but especially so in # 2 because it negates the benefit of lower carbs) but decent point overall
I won't even bother with pasting the text of the articles because most won't bother to read it anyway
http://www.dietdoctor.com/calorie-calorie-even-close
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22735432
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Too many calories TBH.
The difference is way over your head, mate.
First off, that will be too many calories to get in shape.
Second, weight loss often is not equal to fat loss.
You, eat too much for what you are and take too much gear for what you are.
You will never look good if you keep lying to yourself.
Cals were only "example", and nothing about me. I mean difference between High Carb/Low Fat Diet and Low Carb/High Fat Diet with this same amount of calories. It can be 1800 cals, 2300 cals, 2800 cals, never mind.
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just fucking eat exercise and enjoy life!
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Here we go again, comparing apples and oranges.
Kcals = Kilojoules = Body Fuel.
Wax, Petrol, Diesel, = Fuel for a fire
Wax, Petrol, Diesel all burn into a flame in a different way, and give off slightly different fumes.
Same with Kcals/Body Fuel - Bottle of maple syrup will burn in a different way, than a plate of brown rice.
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Here we go again, comparing apples and oranges.
Well, it was more apples and cakes, really...
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Cals were only "example", and nothing about me. I mean difference between High Carb/Low Fat Diet and Low Carb/High Fat Diet with this same amount of calories. It can be 1800 cals, 2300 cals, 2800 cals, never mind.
Nothing to do with you?
Coincidentally, it's the same amount of calories you are using on your "cutting" diet.
The difference is long term, you look bad because you have eaten bad consistently for too much time.
The difference is not "more carbs or more fats".
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I saw on FB (I "follow" Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald) and saw something about the vid
being pulled because it was full of shit. I didn't care enough to watch it but if Alan and Lyle say it's shit it's pretty safe to say it's shit. :D
Go on, name some claims from Lyle which have been proven wrong.
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What did Friedrich Nietzsche say to the calorie?
Not all calories are created equal.
ZIIIING!!