Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Method101 on November 13, 2015, 01:53:36 AM
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8563679
MPS = muscle protein synthesis
At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.
So to all of you training a muscle only once a week you are missing out on at least half a weeks growth. This supports the idea that it's better to stimulate rather than annihilate so you can train a muscle multiple times a week without reaching the point of overtraining.
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Agreed.
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dosen't talk about CNS recovery which has the final say and takes longer than that time slot before it's ready for another big session.
To those of you who do few sets and fast tempo's, sure you can go more often.
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dosen't talk about CNS recovery which has the final say and takes longer than that time slot before it's ready for another big session.
To those of you who do few sets and fast tempo's, sure you can go more often.
This
I think one heavy session, and one pumping one is optimal.
Thats what im trying for my arms and chest nowadays.
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Hypertrophy Specific Training theory and website incorporated those facts years and years ago.
I advocate retraining a target muscle every 3rd day. Those that you want to grow rapidly.
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This
I think one heavy session, and one pumping one is optimal.
Thats what im trying for my arms and chest nowadays.
Not optimal, sorry. Please explain the science behind this protocol.
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Not optimal, sorry. Please explain the science behind this protocol.
please explain the science behind why i shouldn't roundhouse you into next week, pal.
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I do arms and the fap at least once a day for the rest of the week, so I am good.
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dosen't talk about CNS recovery which has the final say and takes longer than that time slot before it's ready for another big session.
To those of you who do few sets and fast tempo's, sure you can go more often.
you. know shit. about. central nervous system please all. u. know. is. the word cns
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What about DOMS? I can't even get a decent workout if it's bad, and it sometimes takes four or five days to heal.
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What if one is on dem hormonaz?
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Interesting since ive been talking about training chest or arms everyday. Thanks for posting this
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8563679
MPS = muscle protein synthesis
So to all of you training a muscle only once a week you are missing out on at least half a weeks growth. This supports the idea that it's better to stimulate rather than annihilate so you can train a muscle multiple times a week without reaching the point of overtraining.
Someone's been watching Vegan Gains videos lol
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8563679
MPS = muscle protein synthesis
So to all of you training a muscle only once a week you are missing out on at least half a weeks growth. This supports the idea that it's better to stimulate rather than annihilate so you can train a muscle multiple times a week without reaching the point of overtraining.
The main issue with the internet is that people mistake knowing from understanding. Can you evaluate this study? do you think that 6 healthy young men serving as their own controls (bilateral control) using leucine uptake is enough to generalize? Troll slight
Do you think the exercise may have had something to do with it? it was not controlled, what about "healthy" versus unhealthy?
The methods used to measure MPS
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2589135/?page=9
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You can manipulate this as well, which may get you past the 36 hour window cited.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;89(1):161-8. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.2008.26401. Epub 2008 Dec 3.
Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men.
Moore DR1, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The anabolic effect of resistance exercise is enhanced by the provision of dietary protein.
OBJECTIVES:
We aimed to determine the ingested protein dose response of muscle (MPS) and albumin protein synthesis (APS) after resistance exercise. In addition, we measured the phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins thought to regulate acute changes in MPS.
DESIGN:
Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise. After exercise, participants consumed, in a randomized order, drinks containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 g whole egg protein. Protein synthesis and whole-body leucine oxidation were measured over 4 h after exercise by a primed constant infusion of [1-(13)C]leucine.
RESULTS:
MPS displayed a dose response to dietary protein ingestion and was maximally stimulated at 20 g. The phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (Thr(389)), ribosomal protein S6 (Ser(240/244)), and the epsilon-subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B (Ser(539)) were unaffected by protein ingestion. APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20 g ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40 g protein were ingested.
CONCLUSIONS:
Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.
The last sentence is important, too much protein, causes IRREVERSIBLE oxidation (ie tissue damage,myocytes specifically).
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The original study was done in 1995. Here is a link to a full article done this year about the subject. Conclusion: they still don't know much about hypertrophy. Also, bodybuilders don't gain much from all that training and eating protein. We can assume that since so little protein is synthesized by advanced bodybuilders that there is little need to consume extra protein. That won't change the muscle heads who ingest way too much protein.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/273149893_A_Review_of_Resistance_Training-Induced_Changes_in_Skeletal_Muscle_Protein_Synthesis_and_Their_Contribution_to_Hypertrophy
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Hypertrophy Specific Training theory and website incorporated those facts years and years ago.
I advocate retraining a target muscle every 3rd day. Those that you want to grow rapidly.
no you said train your arms only every day for a month
then take a pic with the camera slightly closer to make them look bigger
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Your body recovers as a systemic system and not localized to the body part worked in split routine. Let's take a sample once a week program.
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: legs
Friday: Delt and arms
On Monday the triceps are getting hit heavy with every chest pressing movement. It's getting hit again on Friday on tricep day. On back day the biceps are getting hit with every pulling movement like chins and rows. Then the biceps are hit again on Friday. On back day you either do deadlifts or power cleans your thighs are getting hit hard. The thighs are getting hit again on leg day. I can go on.
It's over lap that dictates a body part is never hit just once in a once a week split. Isolation doesn't take place in athletics. The body works as a unit in any kineslogical review of an athletic movement.
I know I presented a case for once a week. That doesn't mean that twice or three times a week splits are a negative. Too much to type on this knuckle head board. I will say this. The quickest gains I ever made as a natural was a whole body routine three times a week. The problem with this it's brutal to do a whole body routine and this is contrary to the often repeated but falsely that it's a beginner routine. It's the hardest workout you can do.
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you. know shit. about. central nervous system please all. u. know. is. the word cns
whatever dude, troll your shit somewhere else please...
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Prefer 2-3 times a week for each specific muscle group. Makes working out more enjoyable for me personally.
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Like old timer said above you're getting the overlap stimulation anyways.
My biceps and triceps for example get stimulated when I do back and chest workouts respectfully, and I say stimulated because when I row or press I do them properly so they are back rows/chest presses and not biceps rows/triceps presses, kinda like pullovers with a barbell/dumbell stimulate my chest and back if I do either on any of those days.
On my my other days ie shoulders, triceps, biceps, legs bring the above and other groups into play
FFS, I do calves by themselves on one day in the middle of my split and when I am doing standing calf raises, toe presses and donkeys other bodyparts are being stimulated just in the process of leveraging weight in general. Don't tell me when someone is doing lets say 45 degree calf presses with 4-6 plates per side that his legs are not being stimulated
Or that if your doing squats your calves are being stimulated long with other parts
PS why does everyone feel the fucking need to have chest day on Monday come hell or high water lol?
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Not optimal, sorry. Please explain the science behind this protocol.
There is no "science" ::) Please this is bodybuilding...
The heavy session is about traumatizing the muscle and takes the CNS a while a to recover, the pumping one gets the muscle some stimulation while not taxing the CNS and the fibers too much, actually the blood flow from the pump will speeds up the recovery.
Training a weak muscle part twice a week is the simplest method to make a lagging bodypart grow. But usually its hard to recover from several balls to the wall heavy sessions for a muscle group in one week, hence the heavy/"light" alternance.
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The original study was done in 1995. Here is a link to a full article done this year about the subject. Conclusion: they still don't know much about hypertrophy. Also, bodybuilders don't gain much from all that training and eating protein. We can assume that since so little protein is synthesized by advanced bodybuilders that there is little need to consume extra protein. That won't change the muscle heads who ingest way too much protein.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/273149893_A_Review_of_Resistance_Training-Induced_Changes_in_Skeletal_Muscle_Protein_Synthesis_and_Their_Contribution_to_Hypertrophy
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=183708.0;attach=216453;image)
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Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
K.I.S.S
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Hi All,
Loading the muscle each 24 hours would even be closer to optimal then working out every 36 hours.
Full Body workouts preferred above split workouts.
Workoutsessions should provide an increase in the load each and every every session.
One set per bodypart must be carried out long enough ( TUT) to create sufficient stimulus. More workingsets are not essential. The number of reps is not relevant.
Working up to extremely heavy loads is not necessary.
The first session must therefor start with "babyweights". The actual ( absolute ) weight of load involved is not relevant.
Key is to keep on increasing ( relative progression ) the response.
Stop when having reached concentric failure at the movement involved.
Speed of the movement is not relevant.
Changing exercises is not relevant. using the same exercises and in the same order each and every session is to be preferred.
complex exercises and "single joint" exercises both can be used. A mix is optimal.
Eating slightly above maintenance is important. A slight calorie surplus is sufficient to grow. Simple sugars and easy digestible protein should only be consumed right before and after the workout.
The macros of rest of the meals should consist of medium ( 40 %) complex carbs, medium protein ( 40 % ), and 20 % fat ( fish oil at every meal ).
Eating every 3 hours.
Don't worry about CNS , a hour hour and haf to full body workout every day is not affecting CNS or muscle growth in negative way.
Working out while still being ( very ) sore is not negatively affecting muscle growth .
Ok,
Bye
André
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(https://33.media.tumblr.com/c02abb6f214c8d872071c4bb16c3d917/tumblr_mxhrlxGBR71st18yzo1_500.gif)
Thanks Andre.
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no you said train your arms only every day for a month
then take a pic with the camera slightly closer to make them look bigger
I never said any such thing. Let us have a look at your huge arms. bigmc, what you?
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Everyone is different. Try both methods and see which one works for you. Who really cares anyways. Just workout and be well.
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Lol it's common knowledge that large muscle groups take at least 72 hours to recover and there is research showing that they still don't recover fully in 72 hours. Nobody has any business training more than two days in a row, unless they enjoy getting less than optimal results. You can't recruit enough motor units to have a productive workout and the load is important when it comes to stimulating growth. The more advanced lifter you are the more time you need to recover because advanced lifters can recruit more motor units and use much heavier weights
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I never said any such thing. Let us have a look at your huge arms. bigmc, what you?
so you are saying you didn't do a big experiment on here
where you said you could put an inch on your arms in a month just training them
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Lol it's common knowledge that large muscle groups take at least 72 hours to recover and there is research showing that they still don't recover fully in 72 hours. Nobody has any business training more than two days in a row, unless they enjoy getting less than optimal results. You can't recruit enough motor units to have a productive workout and the load is important when it comes to stimulating growth. The more advanced lifter you are the more time you need to recover because advanced lifters can recruit more motor units and use much heavier weights
it's not common knowledge, this is the point. While there are idiosyncratic reactions which cause people to say things like "everyone is different" we really are not. Medicine is based on this principle, medications work for the most part very similarly in most people, most of the time, we are far more alike then we are different.
That is why we can generalize, if everyone is different or people need to find what works for them is actually reality, then generalizability goes out the window.
You have evidence for this bit of common knowledge?
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these studies are so often flawed.
they are made by labcoat nerds without any real Life appicable knowlage and often lack comon sense, disregarding a ton of factors.
"Heavy resistance training"
there's difference between a workout and a workout... would you compare a Tom Platz leg session to one of Vince Goodrum or someone like that??
Intensity ie. how hard you train, and also how long are factors on how much muscle you break down/stimulate... These fucking nerd labcoats has no clue..
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Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
K.I.S.S
Correct, but it should go more like this....
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get frustrated with your poverty natty gains and realize that you aren't gonna look how you want to look without gear.
Which leads to...
A. Quit
or
B. Take gear
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get the women
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whatever dude, troll your shit somewhere else please...
cns is just a term u heard to generalize psuedo knowledge
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Correct, but it should go more like this....
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get frustrated with your poverty natty gains and realize that you aren't gonna look how you want to look without gear.
Which leads to...
A. Quit
or
B. Take gear
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get the women
Thanks.....I`ll opt for Plan-B !! :D
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Correct, but it should go more like this....
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get frustrated with your poverty natty gains and realize that you aren't gonna look how you want to look without gear.
Which leads to...
A. Quit
or
B. Take gear
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get the women
Realise you'll never reach the size you want without massive doses
Which leads to.....
A. Quit
B. Compromise keeping doses low, living with a balance of some size and some self loathing
Or
C. Get super massive
Die early
Added a few stages to it ;D
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Correct, but it should go more like this....
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get frustrated with your poverty natty gains and realize that you aren't gonna look how you want to look without gear.
Which leads to...
A. Quit
or
B. Take gear
Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
Get the women
You forgot balding, impotence, getting laughed at by lot's of people when you walk around the mall in baby gap clothes, lousy health....just to name a few.
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You forgot balding, impotence, getting laughed at by lot's of people when you walk around the mall in baby gap clothes, lousy health....just to name a few.
Negative post reported...
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This idea of training a body part once a week is bullshit, why not every 6 days or 5 days or 4 days??? It's a made up number.
By the way I started training my arms three times a week with a lot of volume and supersets and the gains were great, no more of that HIT bullshit.
Anyway that's my two cents.
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This idea of training a body part once a week is bullshit, why not every 6 days or 5 days or 4 days??? It's a made up number.
By the way I started training my arms three times a week with a lot of volume and supersets and the gains were great, no more of that HIT bullshit.
Anyway that's my two cents.
Exactly what i am going to do. Thanks for letting us know you got results.
When you did arms 3 times a week, did each arm workout consist of less volume/sets because you were doing 3 times a week, or was the volume high every arm day?
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This idea of training a body part once a week is bullshit, why not every 6 days or 5 days or 4 days??? It's a made up number.
By the way I started training my arms three times a week with a lot of volume and supersets and the gains were great, no more of that HIT bullshit.
Anyway that's my two cents.
Lol
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if your natural 1 body part a week and make sure your muscles are really sore. i learnt that the hard way training whole body 3 different exercises 6 days a week as a beginner lol
if on steroids train all you want as long as u want just dont forget to eat and sleep
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Hi All,
Loading the muscle each 24 hours would even be closer to optimal then working out every 36 hours.
Full Body workouts preferred above split workouts.
Workoutsessions should provide an increase in the load each and every every session.
One set per bodypart must be carried out long enough ( TUT) to create sufficient stimulus. More workingsets are not essential. The number of reps is not relevant.
Working up to extremely heavy loads is not necessary.
How has this program worked for you in real life? Can you post a pic to show us the results of this protocol?
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these studies are so often flawed.
they are made by labcoat nerds without any real Life appicable knowlage and often lack comon sense, disregarding a ton of factors.
"Heavy resistance training"
there's difference between a workout and a workout... would you compare a Tom Platz leg session to one of Vince Goodrum or someone like that??
Intensity ie. how hard you train, and also how long are factors on how much muscle you break down/stimulate... These fucking nerd labcoats has no clue..
Well, they doesn't do these study's for internet critics, who have a morons degree of the broscience. These study's are more like "read and learn"- material rather than "read and deny all the facts without any counter evidence what so ever"- material ;D
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Well, they doesn't do these study's for internet critics, who have a morons degree of the broscience. These study's are more like "read and learn"- material rather than "read and deny all the facts without any counter evidence what so ever"- material ;D
What training method would you propose?
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What training method would you propose?
What I propose, is training smartly. What I do myself is quite simple routine, three days per week, starting Monday, training every other day:
1. Chest + arms
2. Legs
3. Back and shoulders
Lot of crunches and hyperextensions, stiff legged deadlifts etc. for abs and lower back as a warm up every day.
This way I can go heavy all the time, meaning that every set is done to the failure. Basic exercises, but all the time with best possible form and range of motion. I use supersets, giant sets etc. for changing the routines, and it works quite good. What is important about this split is obvious: You doesn't stress the muscle which you have just trained at the next training session. Only legs are sore at the Friday, but that doesn't matter, they are sore till Sunday anyway. I am 56 but this way of training gives me a better growth I have when I was 30, training with the four split and not minding too much about the form and the range of motion..
As you see, there is no big secrets, just simple basics, and that is the vital point. By my experience of 25+ years, people are overcomplicating their training, while cutting down back to basics would give them better results. I see this happen all the time, natural builders try to keep up with the pace of the gear using pros, and that is utterly stupid thing to do. You get best results when you give your body some time to relax between training, time to recovery, and then you can max out in every exercise you do at the gym.
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How has this program worked for you in real life? Can you post a pic to show us the results of this protocol?
Always happens. Someone will give a training protocol that they insist is "optimal" but when asked to show their results following this program they disappear.
"Full Body workouts preferred above split workouts."
"More workingsets are not essential. The number of reps is not relevant."
Since no top competitive bber follows this claim and nobody has ever won any major title using these principles I think there is probably a very good reason "forgottemuscle" is not to keen to show the results that he personal has experience using these methods.
There isn't any.
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Currently doing full body workouts every second day with cardio sessions on the days I don't workout. Recovering from bicep tendon reattachment surgery so the amount of weight I can lift and exercises I can perform is very limited.
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Currently doing full body workouts every second day with cardio sessions on the days I don't workout. Recovering from bicep tendon reattachment surgery so the amount of weight I can lift and exercises I can perform is very limited.
How did you detach your bicep tendon?
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Train
Eat
Rest
Repeat
K.I.S.S
Applies to almost everything in life. Would singlehandedly destroy the weight loss/fitness machine as well.
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:o :o
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Always happens. Someone will give a training protocol that they insist is "optimal" but when asked to show their results following this program they disappear.
"Full Body workouts preferred above split workouts."
"More workingsets are not essential. The number of reps is not relevant."
Since no top competitive bber follows this claim and nobody has ever won any major title using these principles I think there is probably a very good reason "forgottemuscle" is not to keen to show the results that he personal has experience using these methods.
There isn't any.
That is the greatest problem in this sport. Everybody knows better than the next guy, no matter what. That is why they think that muscular guys are stupid, because they are. Want me to prove it here and now? Well, if we look at the biceps of the average natural trainer at the gym, it weights like 1 - 2 kilos/ 2 - 4 lb, so it is tiny piece of meat. That doesn't matter at all, because most of the people who are training uses as much time at the biceps routines, as they use for their thighs. That is ridiculously stupid, because bicep will grow better with lesser training. There is no reason why you should do 5 - 7 - 12 sets for bicep, if 3 is enough. This is the major point of all training. Do what you need to do, no more ;D
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That is the greatest problem in this sport. Everybody knows better than the next guy, no matter what. That is why they think that muscular guys are stupid, because they are. Want me to prove it here and now? Well, if we look at the biceps of the average natural trainer at the gym, it weights like 1 - 2 kilos/ 2 - 4 lb, so it is tiny piece of meat. That doesn't matter at all, because most of the people who are training uses as much time at the biceps routines, as they use for their thighs. That is ridiculously stupid, because bicep will grow better with lesser training. There is no reason why you should do 5 - 7 - 12 sets for bicep, if 3 is enough. This is the major point of all training. Do what you need to do, no more ;D
Don't you find you kinda contradict yourself by saying how everyone knows more than the next guy to then give training advice yourself?
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That is the greatest problem in this sport. Everybody knows better than the next guy, no matter what. That is why they think that muscular guys are stupid, because they are. Want me to prove it here and now? Well, if we look at the biceps of the average natural trainer at the gym, it weights like 1 - 2 kilos/ 2 - 4 lb, so it is tiny piece of meat. That doesn't matter at all, because most of the people who are training uses as much time at the biceps routines, as they use for their thighs. That is ridiculously stupid, because bicep will grow better with lesser training. There is no reason why you should do 5 - 7 - 12 sets for bicep, if 3 is enough. This is the major point of all training. Do what you need to do, no more ;D
Ritch makes an excellent post. And you really didn't offer any proof. You say there is not reason to do 7-12 set for your biceps because 3 would suffice. But in the real world the guys with the huge arms do way more than 3 sets. What would be better proof of your argument is to show us a picture of your arms and see how it has responded to the 3 sets of training.
BTW, I don't know what makes you think that muscular guys are stupid. Since they are so successful in building muscle either they are not stupid or intelligence is not required to build muscle. And I truly doubt that a bicep weights 2-4 pounds. Next time you are at the grocery store look at how big a 4 pound steak is. 4 pounds of pure muscle added to a frame over all will make a noticeable difference. A bicep alone weighing 4 pounds will be the biggest arm that has ever existed.
You might want to be a bit more circumspect as to whom you refer to as stupid.
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Ritch makes an excellent post. And you really didn't offer any proof. You say there is not reason to do 7-12 set for your biceps because 3 would suffice. But in the real world the guys with the huge arms do way more than 3 sets. What would be better proof of your argument is to show us a picture of your arms and see how it has responded to the 3 sets of training.
BTW, I don't know what makes you think that muscular guys are stupid. Since they are so successful in building muscle either they are not stupid or intelligence is not required to build muscle. And I truly doubt that a bicep weights 2-4 pounds. Next time you are at the grocery store look at how big a 4 pound steak is. 4 pounds of pure muscle added to a frame over all will make a noticeable difference. A bicep alone weighing 4 pounds will be the biggest arm that has ever existed.
You might want to be a bit more circumspect as to whom you refer to as stupid.
Just let the stupidity rain over this subject, dear child. Why that nitpicking about the example of mine? Did I hurt your feelings? Let's correct the weight's to more accurate form:"it weights like 0.5 - 1 kilos/ 1 - 2 lb,". Do you feel better now?
Didn't the words "average natural trainer" mean anything to you? You see, I am real natural, never take nothing which I can't buy at the normal sport shop, so Citrulline is the most notorious chemical I use. In +25 years, training at the most significant gyms in this country, training among the best Finnish bodybuilders and learning from them, from the books and magazines, I have never seen huge arms of the natural bodybuilder. Lot of fake naturals and juiced builders with the huge biceps, but never 100% natural with anything like huge. In fact, there isn't such thing as a natural bodybuilder with the huge arms. My arms are quite big and people at the gym are speculating which kind of gear I take, and when I tell them that I don't use anything but protein, citrulline, and some multivitamins, they take me as a liar. Point? I don't care. You see, I do not lose anything if you don't believe what I say, so it doesn't make any difference if you believe me or not. What I have learn years ago is that you can lead the donkey to the water, but you can't make it drink. It is simple as that ;D
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Just let the stupidity rain over this subject, dear child. Why that nitpicking about the example of mine? Did I hurt your feelings? Let's correct the weight's to more accurate form:"it weights like 0.5 - 1 kilos/ 1 - 2 lb,". Do you feel better now?
Didn't the words "average natural trainer" mean anything to you? You see, I am real natural, never take nothing which I can't buy at the normal sport shop, so Citrulline is the most notorious chemical I use. In +25 years, training at the most significant gyms in this country, training among the best Finnish bodybuilders and learning from them, from the books and magazines, I have never seen huge arms of the natural bodybuilder. Lot of fake naturals and juiced builders with the huge biceps, but never 100% natural with anything like huge. In fact, there isn't such thing as a natural bodybuilder with the huge arms. My arms are quite big and people at the gym are speculating which kind of gear I take, and when I tell them that I don't use anything but protein, citrulline, and some multivitamins, they take me as a liar. Point? I don't care. You see, I do not lose anything if you don't believe what I say, so it doesn't make any difference if you believe me or not. What I have learn years ago is that you can lead the donkey to the water, but you can't make it drink. It is simple as that ;D
Seems to me that you are the one that is quite butt hurt.
"My arms are quite big"
Sure they are. You just won't prove it which is so easily done. We have to just take your word for it. lol.
Keep criticizing others that give advice while you do the same without offering any proof.
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Seems to me that you are the one that is quite butt hurt.
"My arms are quite big"
Sure they are. You just won't prove it which is so easily done. We have to just take your word for it. lol.
Keep criticizing others that give advice while you do the same without offering any proof.
Dear moron, how do I prove it by the internet? For real, are you stupid enough to believe, that these getbiggers send you a photos about themselves, while there is hundred of millions of photos about the anonym bodybuilders to be found and make you to believe, that it is a photo of the some getbig superhero?
1. I don't have to prove anything to you guys, I do not have that kind of needs what so ever. Is this clear?
2. If I drop an opinion to you guys, it is an opinion based to the experience of +25 years of training, and that is more than most of you have been living. I do not claim that I did know everything when I born, like so many of you guys. I have learn by the years of experience, which most of you doesn't even have.
3. What would be my motive to give you a false information? Never think about that? It make no difference to me, if you continue doing everything like you are doing, I don't lose anything by it. But in the other hand, if my advice would give you the opportunity to make muscles faster than ever, what would you lose?
I don't try to fuck your mom, I just try to make you to understand, that if you follow the brosciense instead of physical facts, you can't use the full capacity of your muscles. You see, I have been in this sport from the 80's and I have seen a lot, reading more than 90% of you guys read in his lifetime, and learning, which seem to be impossible to you guys. What I have found out is that most of the magazines and gurus around this sport are full of shit. It is a business, you are the customer they try to fool to spend your money and effort for all sort of crap. So what is the point? Use your brains. That's all I ask. If you take all out from the muscle using it's full and natural range of motion, it respond by growing. This was the base of the training from the beginning of this sport, and that's why those first generations of bodybuilders were so much more aesthetic, and this is a fact. If you skip all the bullshit and do what they did, you end up looking like they did, but as a natural, somewhat smaller. If you don't try, so what. Go to the grave as dumb as you born, and see if I care.
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Dear moron, how do I prove it by the internet? For real, are you stupid enough to believe, that these getbiggers send you a photos about themselves, while there is hundred of millions of photos about the anonym bodybuilders to be found and make you to believe, that it is a photo of the some getbig superhero?
1. I don't have to prove anything to you guys, I do not have that kind of needs what so ever. Is this clear?
2. If I drop an opinion to you guys, it is an opinion based to the experience of +25 years of training, and that is more than most of you have been living. I do not claim that I did know everything when I born, like so many of you guys. I have learn by the years of experience, which most of you doesn't even have.
3. What would be my motive to give you a false information? Never think about that? It make no difference to me, if you continue doing everything like you are doing, I don't lose anything by it. But in the other hand, if my advice would give you the opportunity to make muscles faster than ever, what would you lose?
I don't try to fuck your mom, I just try to make you to understand, that if you follow the brosciense instead of physical facts, you can't use the full capacity of your muscles. You see, I have been in this sport from the 80's and I have seen a lot, reading more than 90% of you guys read in his lifetime, and learning, which seem to be impossible to you guys. What I have found out is that most of the magazines and gurus around this sport are full of shit. It is a business, you are the customer they try to fool to spend your money and effort for all sort of crap. So what is the point? Use your brains. That's all I ask. If you take all out from the muscle using it's full and natural range of motion, it respond by growing. This was the base of the training from the beginning of this sport, and that's why those first generations of bodybuilders were so much more aesthetic, and this is a fact. If you skip all the bullshit and do what they did, you end up looking like they did, but as a natural, somewhat smaller. If you don't try, so what. Go to the grave as dumb as you born, and see if I care.
Quite a meltdown but I'll see if I can address your reply.
I asked you to show some proof, i.e., the results of your training protocol. It is quite simple that even a moron can understand. Just post a pic.
1. You have nothing to prove is right. You have NOTHING to present as evidence, real world evidence, that you know what you are talking about. And it doesn't matter what your "needs" are. If you make a claim it means nothing unless you can back it up. Arthur Jones always back up his claims.
2. I have over forty years of non stop consistent training. I don't consider myself an expert and still learning and don't believe that the length of time, in and of itself, automatically makes you an expert. You can give your opinion but again it means nothing unless you can back it up.
3. What is your motive? The same that you criticize others of. To seem like you know more or know something that others don't. To make yourself feel superior. And if it made no difference to you, you would have just shut up. The biggest excuse people often make is that they don't care. They care plenty. You care plenty no matter how much you deny it. You obviously took personal offense at being questioned and your emotionally based and cry baby replies to someone who challenges you is proof enough.
I don't know where the comment of having sex with my decease mom came from but it is indicative of your state of mind. Again, your claim of experience means nothing if not backed up. I got my first taste of a barbell, dumbbell and squat rack in 1972. And as far as reading, I am not to be included in your arbitrary 90%. I've read plenty.
"Training a muscle under load through a full range of motion". Wow! What a concept! All those decades of training and reading has brought you to that conclusion?
The reason you don't post a pic is that you look like shit. Chances are you are a fat old man would would be laughed off this board if you posted a pic.
Don't be so full of yourself.
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dosen't talk about CNS recovery which has the final say and takes longer than that time slot before it's ready for another big session.
To those of you who do few sets and fast tempo's, sure you can go more often.
Did the study control for juice? Or individuality? I did 130 sets or so on arms last weeks, no idea what I did for back but maybe 30 sets. Thing is I am back deadlifting, so 1 set deadlift =/= 1 set rows. I go by feel and injuries. Some nights you feel like Hercules, other nights you feel like shit. Work with it.
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You can manipulate this as well, which may get you past the 36 hour window cited.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;89(1):161-8. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.2008.26401. Epub 2008 Dec 3.
Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men.
Moore DR1, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The anabolic effect of resistance exercise is enhanced by the provision of dietary protein.
OBJECTIVES:
We aimed to determine the ingested protein dose response of muscle (MPS) and albumin protein synthesis (APS) after resistance exercise. In addition, we measured the phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins thought to regulate acute changes in MPS.
DESIGN:
Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise. After exercise, participants consumed, in a randomized order, drinks containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 g whole egg protein. Protein synthesis and whole-body leucine oxidation were measured over 4 h after exercise by a primed constant infusion of [1-(13)C]leucine.
RESULTS:
MPS displayed a dose response to dietary protein ingestion and was maximally stimulated at 20 g. The phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (Thr(389)), ribosomal protein S6 (Ser(240/244)), and the epsilon-subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B (Ser(539)) were unaffected by protein ingestion. APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20 g ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40 g protein were ingested.
CONCLUSIONS:
Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.
The last sentence is important, too much protein, causes IRREVERSIBLE oxidation (ie tissue damage,myocytes specifically).
Like I said do any of these tests (I guess not) account for juiced trainees? I'd also assume a 6ft6 250lb bber would need more protein than a 5"8 (ie Olympia behemoth) bber - what is the g/lb (or g/kg as it should be) protein dosage?
Total bollox in isolation. I am not you, you aren't me and he isn't you.
You cannot say x works for y as a blanket statement - as if 30g protein will have my body killing me.
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I never said any such thing. Let us have a look at your huge arms. bigmc, what you?
so you are saying you didn't do a big experiment on here
where you said you could put an inch on your arms in a month just training them
In 1999 I thought I would have a go at seeing how big I could get my arms. No drugs, of course. That stopped in 1975 and only 2 Dianabol tablets were used. What I discovered was that when I did something that made my arms larger they were sore for several days. Ah, ha, I thought, what if I kept them sore?! Up until then just about everyone believed you grew after the soreness went. In other words, we were supposed to let the muscle recover then retrain them. The problem with doing that is we have to overcome the repeated bout effect and it takes much more of whatever you were doing to generate more hypertrophy. I concluded that DOMS could be used to guage when hypertrophy was occurring. If a workout didn't generate significant DOMS then I wasn't going to grow. I would stay the same which is what 90% of what bodybuilders do every time they train. Few keep growing.
For a month I kept both arms and calves sore. I was growing 1/10 inch per workout and in one month put an inch on my arms and over an inch on my calves. Unfortunately for me I got sore elbows from having my elbows on the pads. Since then I never let my elbows touch any pads. I injured my Achilles tendons from doing too many ballistic movements with 700 pounds on the calf machine. Gosh, I really got strong quickly. However, sooner or later you enter the danger zone where injuries can happen. I trained every 3rd day to give the connective tissue a chance to heal. The muscles seemed fine.
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Like I said do any of these tests (I guess not) account for juiced trainees? I'd also assume a 6ft6 250lb bber would need more protein than a 5"8 (ie Olympia behemoth) bber - what is the g/lb (or g/kg as it should be) protein dosage?
Total bollox in isolation. I am not you, you aren't me and he isn't you.
You cannot say x works for y as a blanket statement - as if 30g protein will have my body killing me.
NO
You can make blanket statements if a study is properly done, that's the whole point, that's how medicine works. If what you were saying is true, that we are drastically different and idiosyncratic by our very nature, drugs wouldn't work for conditions, it would be based on the person.
Generalizability is the goal of research!
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Like I said do any of these tests (I guess not) account for juiced trainees? I'd also assume a 6ft6 250lb bber would need more protein than a 5"8 (ie Olympia behemoth) bber - what is the g/lb (or g/kg as it should be) protein dosage?
Total bollox in isolation. I am not you, you aren't me and he isn't you.
You cannot say x works for y as a blanket statement - as if 30g protein will have my body killing me.
Just to clarify, there are individual responses, things can be idiopathic but humans are far more alike then different, its a misnomer to suggest otherwise. It's why a puffer works in asthma, not in melvin or ashley, but not in beth, the physiology is the same or very similar.
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Just to clarify, there are individual responses, things can be idiopathic but humans are far more alike then different, its a misnomer to suggest otherwise. It's why a puffer works in asthma, not in melvin or ashley, but not in beth, the physiology is the same or very similar.
Great point. People often confuse or conflate the general with the specific. Of course we are all unique in out own specific way. Just the way we look is unique enough. But biologically we are identical:
Carbon base life form, heart, lungs, use oxygen, run on glucose, assimilate protein, fats, carbohydrates....
If that wasn't the case then medical science cannot exist. If one has a bacteria infection it is treated with an antibiotic but what type of antibiotic will vary. In my case, I am allergic to penicillin so I am prescribe another antibiotic, say, tetracycline, but still an antibiotic.
The general principle, antibiotic to treat bacteria infection, applies to everybody. What type, dose, duration varies as does one's response to the treatment.
Resistance training as one of the ways to stimulate strength and muscle hypertrophy applies to everybody. Frequency, duration and intensity as well as response seems to vary widely.
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What I propose, is training smartly. What I do myself is quite simple routine, three days per week, starting Monday, training every other day:
1. Chest + arms
2. Legs
3. Back and shoulders
Lot of crunches and hyperextensions, stiff legged deadlifts etc. for abs and lower back as a warm up every day.
This way I can go heavy all the time, meaning that every set is done to the failure. Basic exercises, but all the time with best possible form and range of motion. I use supersets, giant sets etc. for changing the routines, and it works quite good. What is important about this split is obvious: You doesn't stress the muscle which you have just trained at the next training session. Only legs are sore at the Friday, but that doesn't matter, they are sore till Sunday anyway. I am 56 but this way of training gives me a better growth I have when I was 30, training with the four split and not minding too much about the form and the range of motion..
As you see, there is no big secrets, just simple basics, and that is the vital point. By my experience of 25+ years, people are overcomplicating their training, while cutting down back to basics would give them better results. I see this happen all the time, natural builders try to keep up with the pace of the gear using pros, and that is utterly stupid thing to do. You get best results when you give your body some time to relax between training, time to recovery, and then you can max out in every exercise you do at the gym.
I am 49, training 31 years. I've also found this routine to be optimal while minimizing the stress on my joints. After my leg workout, my legs are sore for 6-7 days afterward. As you age training style/frequency must be adjusted. Young trainers really cannot comprehend this until they get older.
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2 of the best naturals, they have it figured out?