Chick,
Any reason stated for the cancellation?
I have it on good authority, the 2006 Toronto Pro has been canceled due to monetary issues.
Let this serve as notice to all athletes currently preparing, and/ or making travel arrangements.
that's the official notice? A post on a BB forum? LOL! ::)
I have it on good authority, the 2006 Toronto Pro has been canceled due to monetary issues.
Let this serve as notice to all athletes currently preparing, and/ or making travel arrangements.
that's the official notice? A post on a BB forum? LOL! ::)he couldnt use his yahoo email?
that's the official notice? A post on a BB forum? LOL! ::)
WHat about Paul Dillet?
Did he do all this cardio for nothing?
And as athlete's rep, what do you plan to do about this? I know if I was the rep, I'd have Manion on the phone threatening to pull every athlete out of the O and other shows if the prize money is not divided equally among the contracted athletes.
Wait, they didn't sign contracts? Athletes spent $ prepping for a show with no guaranteed check. That's like building a house for someone who may or may not pay you for it once it's complete. It's keystone cops over there, and athletes are tolerating it. Get Rick Collins on the phone...
that's the official notice? A post on a BB forum? LOL! ::)
Holy crap - you seem pretty high strung today 240...
This is disappointing to hear.
Maybe all the sponsors decided to hold out for the first PDI show. ::)
LOL...
I'm upset because a few guys just lost their shirt on show prep and plane tickets, and Bob Chick is defending the promoter winston instead of the athletes!
Bob Chick-
Did Winston pay sanction fees to the IFBB for the Toronto Pro?
What was the total amount?
Are they refunding that money to Winston?
Will Winston be making, at the very least, financial reparations to athletes who bought plane tickets and are now stuck with a weekend in Canada with no chance to earn?
I hear Poletier is furious. >:(He was grainy & full.
Holy crap - you seem pretty high strung today 240...somebody has to be and it obviously ain't the athletes otherwise this bullshit wouldn't happen.
somebody has to be and it obviously ain't the athletes otherwise this bullshit wouldn't happen.
Yes - this is tough even for the promoters. They are out a lot of money, various fees, advertisings and others expenses you can never recoup. As for the athletes, there is the New York Pro one week prior to this event, which most are competing at anyway.hey Ron being in the business yourself what type of dollars do these supplement companies put up for that type of show and what are the arrangements?
Bottom line, the sponsors didn't come through this year, as they have had in the past..
bodybuilding is a "dying" sport. I doubt there's any hardcore conspiracy against anyone here, and I doubt anyone's gonna benefit from this show being cancelled.
Tough shit. I feel bad for the dudes who dieted for no reason.
What's with this show ...or people related to it ???? ???
I would like to think that if and when situations such as this arise, the governing organization can be counted on to step in and ensure that the competition be held as originally planned.
I would like to think that if and when situations such as this arise, the governing organization can be counted on to step in and ensure that the competition be held as originally planned.
bodybuilding is a "dying" sport. I doubt there's any hardcore conspiracy against anyone here, and I doubt anyone's gonna benefit from this show being cancelled.
Tough shit. I feel bad for the dudes who dieted for no reason.
Bottom line this show was all about LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. There was no support from fans and sponsors due to its LOCATION.
There has been discussion about insuring the show for the athletes. There are many details that would need to be addressed. This very subject was brought up 3-4 years ago by Shawn and myself, as we thought it needed to be looked at, sadly, we were the ONLY two BBers that thought it was an issue.
Bottom line is, until the athletes start to take an interest in THEIR sport and the business end of it...it's going to be a slow process.
winfitpromotions.com (http://winfitpromotions.com) is still promoting the Canadian Fitness Exhibition, with the pro bodybuilding contest as part of the weekend list of events. Guess the entire event is being canceled.
It was being held in Niagra Falls, an hour and a half away from Toronto. Don't you think one of the largest cities in North America would be a better draw than a resort town?
that would make much too much sense. that's like saying it's the newyork pro but holding it in poughkeepsie
There has been discussion about insuring the show for the athletes. There are many details that would need to be addressed. This very subject was brought up 3-4 years ago by Shawn and myself, as we thought it needed to be looked at, sadly, we were the ONLY two BBers that thought it was an issue.
Bottom line is, until the athletes start to take an interest in THEIR sport and the business end of it...it's going to be a slow process.
This is the second time in four years this show has been cancelled by the same promoter.
Winston is a great guy. Do you think he's doing this maliciously? Do you think he wants to lose thousands out of his pocket?
It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...! ;D
We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...! ;D
Winston is a great guy. Do you think he's doing this maliciously? Do you think he wants to lose thousands out of his pocket?
It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...! ;D
I would like to think that if and when situations such as this arise, the governing organization can be counted on to step in and ensure that the competition be held as originally planned.
Bob, the thing I'm saying is, why didn't the athletes rep INSIST on a safeguard to make sure this exact same promoter didn't do the exact same thing, 2 years later?
I mean, if a guy blew a big annual event for ANY other organization, they wouldn't put him in charge of it again 2 years later with zero supervision/hand-holding to make sure he didn't drop the ball again.
The fact that you, the rep, don't INSIST on greater accountability is sad. Your words tonight aren't even about making sure this doesn't happen again- you're talking about what a "great guy" that WInston is.
That may be true. But put your friendship aside for a second and look at your role as Athlete's Rep. What are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen to the athletes again in 2 years, AGAIN, with the same promoter?
It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...! ;D
Bob, the thing I'm saying is, why didn't the athletes rep INSIST on a safeguard to make sure this exact same promoter didn't do the exact same thing, 2 years later?
I mean, if a guy blew a big annual event for ANY other organization, they wouldn't put him in charge of it again 2 years later with zero supervision/hand-holding to make sure he didn't drop the ball again.
The fact that you, the rep, don't INSIST on greater accountability is sad. Your words tonight aren't even about making sure this doesn't happen again- you're talking about what a "great guy" that WInston is.
That may be true. But put your friendship aside for a second and look at your role as Athlete's Rep. What are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen to the athletes again in 2 years, AGAIN, with the same promoter?
First off...I can only "insist" so much. I need the support of my fellow athletes to have any real leverage. If you don't have any support, there isn't any "...or else!" you can exclaim.
Bottom line this show was all about LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. There was no support from fans and sponsors due to its LOCATION.
but the IFBB doesn't promote shows. Why they don't promote their own shows is beyond me...
Bottom line this show was all about LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. There was no support from fans and sponsors due to its LOCATION.
They could have gotten a complete website in 2 weeks from this guy, for only $300!
www.300website.com
I would like to think that if and when situations such as this arise, the governing organization can be counted on to step in and ensure that the competition be held as originally planned.
It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...! ;D
Now all of a sudden it is due tolack of fan support because of the location. Dude how stupid do you think everyone on here is. Please come back with a real answer, dare you
So, if there wasn't a location..officially there wasn't a show. Basically, this show was put on the IFBB calendar's "wish list"There was a location/venue secured - I'm saying Toronto is not accessible via direct flights and the fan base isn't as strong as it is in say, New York. Like Mike learned with the Charolette Pro show, his location did not bid well for him. Many are saying Denver is at a disadvantage because of its location. We'll see on the last one in 10 days.
Cancelling a professional show via a thread on a bb website..... Monster Professionalism ::)
You gotta understand, a lot of things could be changed if more pro's showed up at these meetings and spoke and helped out.
There was a location/venue secured - I'm saying Toronto is not accessible via direct flights and the fan base isn't as strong as it is in say, New York.
To answer Chics question about why the IFBB does not promote shows is easy. They would never use their own money. And they would never accept the risk. By snactioning the events they get paid no matter what happens. They pocket 100% of the money. They get there $10,000 for the BB and their $4,000 for the womens.
I want to know if the promoter is getting back he fees he paid to the IFBB. And who were the sponsors who backed out.
And I'm not sure if anything would change if more pros got involved. The IFBB has their agenda and nothng will change it unless they want it to and it doesn't affect their bottom dollar. Simple
Just waiting for Shawn to come on and tell us his show is cancelled.
Thats called a cop-out. For how many months has the IFBB and others been promoting the show. Was this the first year of this show. Now all of a sudden it is due tolack of fan support because of the location. Dude how stupid do you think everyone on here is. Please come back with a real answer, dare youCalled it what you will, but how many people flew to your show in Hawaii, specifically for the show? When is your next show? That's what I thought, you of all people should be able to relate coming up short in the $$ related to promoting a show.
Lift, I don't know if you're the numbers guy for the Colo Pro or not,
But do you know if the numbers- whether the Colo Pro earns or loses money- will be made public?
I know it would feel great to Shawn's ego to come out 100k ahead and have the show of the year- and I wish him well- but 1Fast400's revelation of his financials was endearing for him, and educational for all of us, to what the promoters really go through. I just hope Shawn is honest with how the numbers turn out.
Lift, I don't know if you're the numbers guy for the Colo Pro or not,I'm aware of the numbers, however it's not my place to say. You only hear about how much people are coming up short from shows. We're (the entire team involved) all going through a learning process of putting on a pro show here in Denver. Any one who thinks putting a pro show is easy, should think again. I can tell you this, the show will not lose the amount of money Mike's show did and thankfully we aren't working with Ticketmaster and have had no other mishaps as of yet. As you'll all see via the web cast for those who can't make it, this venue will be top notch and the bar will be raised for pro shows.
But do you know if the numbers- whether the Colo Pro earns or loses money- will be made public?
I know it would feel great to Shawn's ego to come out 100k ahead and have the show of the year- and I wish him well- but 1Fast400's revelation of his financials was endearing for him, and educational for all of us, to what the promoters really go through. I just hope Shawn is honest with how the numbers turn out.
It will be interezsting to see how much Shawn loses his first year. He has so much going on yet not much money coming in other than sponsor money whihc could be more than normal and maybe one reason the Toronto Pro was cancelled they gave Shawn more money. I don't know. But I do know a convention center costs money. I rented it in Honolulu and it cost me $48,000 for 3 days. That does not include anything else. All the booths, electricity, cercurity, carpets and other items associated with the center is extra. Now not sure how much booths are being sold for but the booths sales should easily cover most of the extra costs for the center. I don't think that convention center is more expensive than Honolulu. I am sure it is union and they will make some money for setting up booths, moving things within the center, etc. Not charging for the expo is a huge mistake. Even at just $5 to get in could have brought in several thousands of dollars. The center where he is putting on the show hold 5,000 people. If he was to sell this out then I see he could maybe make a profit. But selling out will be highly doubtfil in Denver. He will not post any post-show figures. Two reasons why. If he loses he will not want people to knwo he was a failure. If he makes money he will not want people to knwo how much.Thanks for the insight Keith. Glad you've scoped it all out for us here in Denver. ::) Why you're so anxious to see the Colorado Pro Show fail is beyond me, but I hope you and Shawn can hug and make up at the Olympia.
I believe the IFBB would make a decent return rung the shows themselves...This is the only pro level sport that has promoters run events. Baseball games are put on by MLB, football games are put on by the NFL, basketball is put on by the NBA...all federations.
If the IFBB were running their own shows, they could promote them better through the magazines their affiliated with, have some standards that would be cross the board, and secure more sponsors. They would simply hire a "promoter" and pay him a salary for the year...his job would be to run the IFBB pro shows. Seems simple to me...
Called it what you will, but how many people flew to your show in Hawaii, specifically for the show? When is your next show? That's what I thought, you of all people should be able to relate coming up short in the $$ related to promoting a show.
Look on the bright side Keith, at least now you have something to divert your attention away from Shawn. ;D
Thanks for the insight Keith. Glad you've scoped it all out for us here in Denver. ::) Why you're so anxious to see the Colorado Pro Show fail is beyond me, but I hope you and Shawn can hug and make up at the Olympia.
It's not that I want the Colorado Pro to fail. It is I want Shawn too fail. I hate it when guys who spend allot of their lives helping others and being good (most of the time), donating to charities (money and hundreds of hours), putting on shows and making sure everyone is taken care of no matter how much he takes a loss, always makes sure others come before him gets ragged on by someone who did relatively nothing for others (he always came first), donates a little money to a chairity to make himself look better, bad mouths fans, rips off promoters, doesn't pay back debts, and thinks because he HAD a nice body that makes him superior to everyone. Basically Shawn has had bad Karma for many years. I am constantly told Keith you are so nice someday it will come back to you. Well so far nothing, just a freak accident that fucked up my life, yet the guy with the bad Karma runs around acting like he is god and far above everyone else. Believe me when I say I hope less than 100 people come to that show. I know that is a wish that won't come true but man it would be nice.In the words of Shawn Ray... DOOOOOOOH.
On the flip side I don't even know you. And if you were the name and promoter behind this show I would be supporting you 100%.
It's not that I want the Colorado Pro to fail. It is I want Shawn too fail. I hate it when guys who spend allot of their lives helping others and being good (most of the time), donating to charities (money and hundreds of hours), putting on shows and making sure everyone is taken care of no matter how much he takes a loss, always makes sure others come before him gets ragged on by someone who did relatively nothing for others (he always came first), donates a little money to a chairity to make himself look better, bad mouths fans, rips off promoters, doesn't pay back debts, and thinks because he HAD a nice body that makes him superior to everyone. Basically Shawn has had bad Karma for many years. I am constantly told Keith you are so nice someday it will come back to you. Well so far nothing, just a freak accident that fucked up my life, yet the guy with the bad Karma runs around acting like he is god and far above everyone else. Believe me when I say I hope less than 100 people come to that show. I know that is a wish that won't come true but man it would be nice.
On the flip side I don't even know you. And if you were the name and promoter behind this show I would be supporting you 100%.
hey Ron being in the business yourself what type of dollars do these supplement companies put up for that type of show and what are the arrangements?
bodybuilding is a "dying" sport. I doubt there's any hardcore conspiracy against anyone here, and I doubt anyone's gonna benefit from this show being cancelled.
I would like to think that if and when situations such as this arise, the governing organization can be counted on to step in and ensure that the competition be held as originally planned.
I have word that supplement company's (ie: Muscletech) did not want to put much money to promote the show because of the way it was run last year. They did not see the benefit into putting money into a show that was not properly promoted compared to many other pro shows, that they invest in.
Also, Shawn Ray wasn't payed for his "master of ceremonies" work in the same show last year. He slammed the promoter in the magazines for that.
Stop blaming the athletes. The IFBB is to blame, period. The promotor should be banned from ever putting on a show again.
Bob, were you aware of this fact when you went on about him being such a "great guy" tonight?
Bob, the thing I'm saying is, why didn't the athletes rep INSIST on a safeguard to make sure this exact same promoter didn't do the exact same thing, 2 years later?
The fact that you, the rep, don't INSIST on greater accountability is sad. What are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen to the athletes again in 2 years, AGAIN, with the same promoter?
However- Why was he more concerned about talking up Winston tonight, instead of talking up the NEED for athletes to get involved and DEMAND contracts?
Also, WinFit (our good friend Winston) still has the Toronto Pro on his own website.
I'm not really seeing the difference here between Winston and james (the promoter of the Orlando Pro show in 2004), except that Winston ran out of funds before James did.
One thing I would like to see, Is the IFBB give something back to the promoters, and take more of an active role in helping promote, advertise, etc.
Interesting - Shawn and OnlyMe - discussing something rational. Wow, I am so impressed. Wait until I convince Keith to come to the CHOC Charity event!
Foooooooooouuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!;D
The sad truth is that this should never have happened....the weiders should have stepped up to the plate...it's in their own back yard for Christ's sake....pretty lame on the ifbb's part if you ask me...
OFFICIAL LETTER OF THE CANCELLATION OF THE 2006 TORONTO PROhun?...who really wrote this?...they're apologizing for "their dedication to bodybuilding"?
.......The overwhelming response is that the fans and sponsors would prefer to see the competition held in Toronto in the future
Winfit and its associates apologize to the committed sponsors and fans for their dedication to bodybuilding.
Bob, no doubt Winston is a tremendous guy! I have met him several times and he is an amazing guy to know and learn bodybuilding from!
He's just not that good at promoting shows!
The people talking on the internet are also the people wanting to buy tickets. A freind called me last week wanting to buy tickets to the show off of www.winfitpromotions.com and it gave you a link to www.ticketmaster.ca. When you clicked on the link, the link it had no mention of the Toronto Bodybuilding show.
I live in Toronto and train in different gyms here and not one gym or one third party bodybuilding website has a poster for this show! There was 2 tour buses full of supporters that were being organized from Toronto to Niagara Falls to go watch our local guys compete so the support is there. Just the availability isn't! We were prepared to line up and watch bodybuilding not buy a playstation 3.
There's one spot open for Tamali in Colorado, what say you Sherri :-*
that would make much too much sense. that's like saying it's the newyork pro but holding it in poughkeepsie
pro bodybuilding is a joke sorry thing to say but it is
hun?...who really wrote this?...they're apologizing for "their dedication to bodybuilding"?It came from the promoter, Big Brain. All of your posts on getbig have been negative or claiming to be one of the best photographers in the biz. ::) When's the last time you said anything remotely close to be positive about bodybuilding, 1952? Or were you bitter back then as well? George, give it a rest ya old fart.
They're definitely in the milking phase of the IFBB's lifetime.
It's not that I want the Colorado Pro to fail. It is I want Shawn too fail. I hate it when guys who spend allot of their lives helping others and being good (most of the time), donating to charities (money and hundreds of hours), putting on shows and making sure everyone is taken care of no matter how much he takes a loss, always makes sure others come before him gets ragged on by someone who did relatively nothing for others (he always came first), donates a little money to a charity to make himself look better, bad mouths fans, rips off promoters, doesn't pay back debts, and thinks because he HAD a nice body that makes him superior to everyone. Basically Shawn has had bad Karma for many years. I am constantly told Keith you are so nice someday it will come back to you. Well so far nothing, just a freak accident that fucked up my life, yet the guy with the bad Karma runs around acting like he is god and far above everyone else. Believe me when I say I hope less than 100 people come to that show. I know that is a wish that won't come true but man it would be nice.
It came from the promoter, Big Brain. All of your posts on getbig have been negative or claiming to be one of the best photographers in the biz. ::) When's the last time you said anything remotely close to be positive about bodybuilding, 1952? Or were you bitter back then as well? George, give it a rest ya old fart.
maybe you shouldn't believe in "karma."
Once they sold Weider Pubs, that was the end of the end.
Wishing ill upon others will only bring bad karma your way.
It came from the promoter, Big Brain. All of your posts on getbig have been negative or claiming to be one of the best photographers in the biz. ::) When's the last time you said anything remotely close to be positive about bodybuilding, 1952? Or were you bitter back then as well? George, give it a rest ya old fart.
It came from the promoter, Big Brain. All of your posts on getbig have been negative or claiming to be one of the best photographers in the biz. ::) When's the last time you said anything remotely close to be positive about bodybuilding, 1952? Or were you bitter back then as well? George, give it a rest ya old fart.You know...there could actually be a real person in there if you only had the balls to pull your head out of the ifbbs ass for some air....READ THE QUOTE STUPID..IT MADE NO SENSE....and...show me where I have EVER claimed to be the best photographer in the business...unless you're referring to the 1 post I made...to introduce myself in a thread about physique photographers....and guess what....some people in the thread thought my pics were good...go figure huh????...anyway...most of the women I photographed have claimed that....why?...are you jealous?...lol
You know...there could actually be a real person in there if you only had the balls to pull your head out of the ifbbs ass for some air....READ THE QUOTE STUPID..IT MADE NO SENSE....and...show me where I have EVER claimed to be the best photographer in the business...unless you're referring to the 1 post I made...to introduce myself in a thread about physique photographers....and guess what....some people in the thread thought my pics were good...go figure huh????...anyway...most of the women I photographed have claimed that....why?...are you jealous?...lol
Negative?....you've posted NOTHING but negative stuff about the PDI....and pretty much everything negative about ANYTHING NOT ifbb...so please....can you say calling the kettle black???....and I guess you don't get around too much...or you've had too much of their kool aide/lemonade....I see it's having the desired effect....you've become a lemming.....I've had plenty of good things to say about bodybuilding and bodybuilders....(heck...I even said something nice about bob...but just once though)...and when I do talk/write...I speak MY OWN MIND....not the bs "company line" you've been brainwashed with...I guess I just don't have too much good to say about you, or your "daddy" the ifbb....Like I've told you countless times before bevis....get a life....this one's taken.... and to use one of you're buddy's lines...."thank you....we have some nice parting gifts for you"
ps...I see you really seem to like talking about farts?....or is it just your own bullsh*t you're smellin'????
You know...there could actually be a real person in there if you only had the balls to pull your head out of the ifbbs ass for some air....READ THE QUOTE STUPID..IT MADE NO SENSE....and...show me where I have EVER claimed to be the best photographer in the business...unless you're referring to the 1 post I made...to introduce myself in a thread about physique photographers....and guess what....some people in the thread thought my pics were good...go figure huh????...anyway...most of the women I photographed have claimed that....why?...are you jealous?...lolGeorge - Mayhem called they want your bullshit back. You're still bitter the PDI doesn't cater to women so you can kiss Wayne's ass, get a press pass and schmotograph them. ::) If you want to talk about my affiliation with the IFBB, great start a new thread.
Negative?....you've posted NOTHING but negative stuff about the PDI....and pretty much everything negative about ANYTHING NOT ifbb...so please....can you say calling the kettle black???....and I guess you don't get around too much...or you've had too much of their kool aide/lemonade....I see it's having the desired effect....you've become a lemming.....I've had plenty of good things to say about bodybuilding and bodybuilders....(heck...I even said something nice about bob...but just once though)...and when I do talk/write...I speak MY OWN MIND....not the bs "company line" you've been brainwashed with...I guess I just don't have too much good to say about you, or your "daddy" the ifbb....Like I've told you countless times before bevis....get a life....this one's taken.... and to use one of you're buddy's lines...."thank you....we have some nice parting gifts for you"
ps...I see you really seem to like talking about farts?....or is it just your own bullsh*t you're smellin'????
It is a sign and more evidence the IFBB doesn't care about promoter, fans or its athletes. For how many months have the IFBB been promoting this show. I am pretty sure they got the sanction fees. Almost guaranteed the the promoter could not come up with the prize money and they had to shut it down. When he couldn't come up with it Manion told him to pull the plug. No way will the IFBB or Manion ever have to pay. Didn't they IFBB pass a ruling that the promoter has to have the money in the bank before doing the show. How can they lose. They approved the Toronto Pro to show people that they are going to have more shows and not to worry they are strong.
We canadians don't give a shit about professional bodybuilding... Let this be a lesson to you thong wearing greased up muscle freaks... Stop at the border, we don't want ya here ;D.translation=my girlfriend loves bodybuilders
It was my understanding that the full sanctioning fee and 100% of the prize money had to be put into escrow before the license to do the show would be granted. Obviously, the prize money is returned to the promoter - who should then re-pay his sponsors - in the event of a cancellation, but I do not know what happens to the sanctioning fee.
Can someone speak on that?
But Keith, having done huge-scale events, you know firsthand that those amounts don't begin to touch the full upfront costs of doing a show. You and the other promoters deal with numbers that the average fans here cannot begin to comprehend. So, it's entirely possible that he came up a little short and had no other cash sources to draw from.
If the prize amounts are to remain the same, they'll need to find a new business plan in order to trim those tremendous upfront costs. Another thing these new pro promoters should strongly consider is including an amateur component in their shows. Ed Pariso has explained the efficacy of this several times, but no one seems to be listening to him despite the growth of his pro event.
translation=my girlfriend loves bodybuilders
She does? Must suck to be you.
I want to keep this at the top. It deserves it. It is a sign and more evidence the IFBB doesn't care about promoter, fans or its atheltes. For how many months have the IFBB been promoting this show. I am pretty sure they got the sanction fees. Almost guaranteed the the promoter could not come upi with the prize money and they had to shut it down. When he couldn't come up with it Manion told him to pull the plug. No way will the IFBB or Manion ever have to pay. Didn't they IFBB pass a ruling that the promoter has to have the money in the bank befre doing the show. How can they lose. They approved the Toronto Pro to show people that they are going to have more shows and not to woryy they are strong. But it backfired and the Toronto Pro is not the first or last show to cancel this year. Butno matter what the IFBB and Manion have some responsibility in this because they promoted it and gave it te illusion it was a done show by doing so. It's going to be harder and harder to support the IFBB when they keep getting worse and worse.
No, there will NOT be a refund to Winston for the sanction fee.
Reason: There was never one paid.
The prize money will also not be refunded to Winston as it was never put in escrow as it should have been...
What the heck??
Without those two cash elements in place, there never was a show...therefore, there was nothing to cancel.
Those monies need to be in place a minimum of 6 months before the scheduled date of an event.
But since the event was never sanctioned, then 1) no one should've been preparing for it and 2) no one should've made travel arrangements to attend.
What the heck??
Without those two cash elements in place, there never was a show...therefore, there was nothing to cancel.
Those monies need to be in place a minimum of 6 months before the scheduled date of an event.
But since the event was never sanctioned, then 1) no one should've been preparing for it and 2) no one should've made travel arrangements to attend.
Exactly! Chic I didn't say anything in my post that is wrong. I think EVRYONE on here and anyone who heard of the Toronto Pro including the ahtlete who were going t compete that EVERYONE was under the impression this was a done deal, an officially sanctioned show by the IFBB. Why in the hell would the IFBB schedule an event, promote it on their website, allow promotion and allow their athletes (IFBB Pros) to diet and prepare for this show unless it was a done deal Do you mean anyone can call the IFBB and say I want to do a show. And immediately the IFBB puts it on there schedule promotes it to their athletes and then asks to get paid. And this wasn't even the first show for them. Talking about putting the cart before the horse. Please tell us this isn't truly the way the IFBB operates. The schedule events before even making sure they are real. Pleas tell us that isn't the fact. If it is then the IFBB is way worse than I thought. I again think my scenario sound closer to the truth. And really you don't need to know much to figure out the IFBB is worried. And sorry Manion is not enforcing anything but covering his ass. They fuced up and now they look like shit pretty easy to see. I dn't want to start argueing with you again. You know I am right. Call them up and tell them to fight their own battles. Quit letting them use you like they do.
Let me clear up a few points reguarding thr Toronto Pro...
and ticket sales were not what they should have been to have a successful show.
No, I think it's ridiculous...
If I were running that show...I would have been selling cheap-ass tickets and comping my but off for the first 2 years to get a base first...once you establish a sound fan base, then you can slowly increase ticket prices to compensate.
Wayne of alll people will tell you that he bent the rules more than once (Orlando) only to have it bite him in the ass. It was more common than you think to waive the sanction Fee, and prize money secured, in order to even have a show.
YOU of all people know thats it's a hit or miss...there are no guarantees when it comes to sponsors following through, and people showing up.
Winston was given this consideration due to his long standing history in the IFBB, his commitment to BB, and his efforts to make this show successful over the last 3 years...some slack was cut to give him a chance to get the ball rolling and save another pro show for the athletes and fans. I'm not here to dispute whether or not Winston has made the right moves, or is a savvy business man.....
The IFBB could gain control of this situation by promoting their own shows. I know they don't want to take the financial risk, but it would make a lot of sense. There would be no sanction fees, less dependence on sponsor money, and uniformity among the shows. They could hire their own employees to do stage lighting, stage design, music, tickets, etc. How many new shows come along and it's a total screw up. The standard excuse is that it was their first try, and we'll do better next year. That may be a legitimate excuse, but if the IFBB ran their own shows, they could develop an experienced group and get it right every time.
I agree.
Holy Shit Kevin agrees. Okay this thread can stop it over. Kevin has approved
George - Mayhem called they want your bullshit back. You're still bitter the PDI doesn't cater to women so you can kiss Wayne's ass, get a press pass and schmotograph them. ::) If you want to talk about my affiliation with the IFBB, great start a new thread.Lemming...pull your head out...I'm bitter so I want to kiss someones ass?...you've really lost it there bevis...
Try to stay focused old man, The Toronto show was cancelled and it sucks for the entire industry, INCLUDING THE WOMEN. That's the point of this thread, not your own personal issues.
What the heck??2 things.....fraud...and.. .if not fraud...then according to the documentation below...someone was asleep at the wheel....what else is new...
Without those two cash elements in place, there never was a show...therefore, there was nothing to cancel.
Those monies need to be in place a minimum of 6 months before the scheduled date of an event.
But since the event was never sanctioned, then 1) no one should've been preparing for it and 2) no one should've made travel arrangements to attend.
This might be the first thing we agree on MB...
I've asked this various question for many years now...
SO will Paul Dillet still be competing?? ;D
Well, this IS a total loss of The Toronto Pro . There's got to be many reasons why it had to be cancelled, not just one. All I can say is that I attended every Toronto Pro , and now that it's not being held, it really is a big loss for the bodybuilding fans & supporters in the greater Toronto area. What a friggin' letdown!
I can see that the Fallsview must have been one hell of a price tag to hold this . Hell, I would have gone if it was in a school auditorium. I remember when the Toronto Pro was in downtown Toronto proper at the Convention Centre and it drew big crowds. What contributed to loss of fans was when they pulled the amateur contest that was a Pro qualilier around 2000 , I believe. There used to be a lot of friends/family members of the amateurs who bought tickets. When that contest was axed in 2001 & especially in 2002, attendance was way down . They lost a large number of ticket buyers. And the Pro show is usually expensive to see.
I think Winston really is one of the most committed judges & IFBB members in bodybuilding. He has a true love of bodybuilding, and a great rapport with people. It looks like the corporate sponsors didn't support him in the show. And without that kind of money, this happens.
All I know is that it's a big loss. No more big name Pros to see in Toronto. It's ironic because bodybuilding is very popular in the Toronto area, with a ton of local & regional shows going on all the time. That this Pro event was not given support by the fans, bodybuilding industry & companies is at odds with how they do support the small amateur shows. A real loss.
Cancelled Toronto Pro - a staple of the Toronto area's love of bodybuilding for years. Where's the support by the IFBB, Supplement companies, corporate sponsors , and the bodybuilding community? We lost it due to lack of support? Where is the interest?
Is the Toronto Pro finished for good? All I can say is it was always a GREAT show, with the top names. Ronnie Coleman won it at the start of his reign before the O. This is a tremendous loss. If everybody who went to one of the many regional shows in the Toronto area had shown more interest in the show, public support could have made it happen. It was great in it's time. Hope it's not the end of it all in TO.