Phil Heath

[DOGGCRAPP]

The 228lbs Ronnie carried is a bit over what a 5'11 totally natural bb could carry in shredded condition IMO, incredible genes or not. Arnold was what, 235 at his peak and he was quite a bit taller and juiced since his early teens. It's just not realistic to think anyone can turn pro totally lifetime natural.
I don't know about Kucklo. At least he didn't "turn pro 100% lifetime natural". Maybe there's a chance for someone gifted to win teen nationals. Regular Nationals or the Universe - no.

Van I agree that 228lbs is usually over what a normal 5'11" totally natural bb could carry but we arent talking normal here. We are talking about the top echelon of bodybuilding genetics. Below is a picture of Ronnie Coleman at the Dutch Grand Prix where I believe he is 303lbs onstage.

http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Dutch/Pre/pages/FDBE0017.html

Can you name another enhanced competitor 5'10"-5'11" that has ever stood onstage at 303lbs? I cant, not even close. So Im going to assume that the most massive enhanced bodybuilder ever to step onstage could very well eclipse what "the normal" run of the mill natural bodybuilder could because again we are talking "top of the line" genetics here. In every endeavor there is a biggest, fastest etc....and this bodybuilder IMO could set the standard naturally as well as he has set the standard enhanced. Why would you think that someone who makes pro's on a level playing field around him look small would somehow not make everyone look small on a natural playing field.
    Vic Richards was 335 offseason at 5'9" and 295 in pretty darn good shape, do you really think Vic Richards would look like the rest of the 5'9" natural competitors out there if he chose to go that route? He would most likely be able to hang with Ronnie somewhere in the 220-235lb range shredded to the bone clean. Now if your talking average guys or slightly above average natural bodybuilders, then yea 220-235 isnt going to be happeneing for them...but we are talking about people predestined and made for this sport.
    As far as Arnold, he was the best (in 1973) but its a different genetic pool now and I think he would have a very rough time even achieving his pro card nowadays. I think presently he would be about 270-280 onstage and his weak points would be glaring. Could you imagine Arnold trying to stand next to Ruhl? He would look lanky with huge arms and chest.

 

It's just not realistic to think anyone can turn pro totally lifetime natural.

 

I know of a successful competing pro right now who was lifetime natural and used dandelion root, B6, (LOL) and got his pro card. He didnt know a trombone from trenbolone at that time...absolutely clueless about the subject because he was so successful he never had to think about it. Regardless its his personal business and his only. Come to think of it, I know of another person who up to that time was lifetime natural who got his pro card --both of those pros have posted on this board in the past (one maybe even in the last week).  Doesnt matter, noone would believe it anyway, just take a look at this thread. Trop and a few others know of whom I speak of. But I would tend to agree with you on that point, trying to break into the pro ranks au naturel is a task that is incredibly hard and few do it. 

[dearth]

Oh, about that post referring to me being insulted by Hany Rambod, there wasn't any harm in that article as he was explaining that I have much to learn in training. Everyone can learn something which is why we read about the sport of bodybuilding, so my intelligence was never insulted. I've trained with various bbers and have realized that I've been able to excel without knowing much about training which is cool because once I do, then watch out baby!

Phil,

Is Hany a "trainer" just like Charles Glass,
or is he a "nutritionist" like the Chad?

he seems to try and pass himself off as a trainer, however that seems
odd as he looks as though he hasn't seen the inside of a gym in years.
simple logic dictates that hany is a drug guru.

[Disgusted]

When were steroids readily available to the public? I know that test was first synthisized back in the 30's I think, but I am talking about the general public being able to get a hold of them. Show me ONE picture of any bodybuilder before steroids that was as big as any of these guys today!

I'm not knockin any of these guy at all so don't miss understand me, but even 500mgs of test a week is going to put a hell of a lot of mass on a guy or even 3 Dbol. And I don't want to hear about better training methods or equipment either. Have you ever seen some of the shit that Arnold had to use? Better nutrition? Come on, nothing is better than whole foods.

[THE BAD GUY]

When were steroids readily available to the public? I know that test was first synthisized back in the 30's I think, but I am talking about the general public being able to get a hold of them. Show me ONE picture of any bodybuilder before steroids that was as big as any of these guys today!

I'm not knockin any of these guy at all so don't miss understand me, but even 500mgs of test a week is going to put a hell of a lot of mass on a guy or even 3 Dbol. And I don't want to hear about better training methods or equipment either. Have you ever seen some of the shit that Arnold had to use? Better nutrition? Come on, nothing is better than whole foods.

  1960'S

[troponin]

Adam,
   I see you post quite frequently regarding Steve Kuclo, and his natural status at the teen nationals. 
As you put it, I believe he's "been juiced to the gills since he was 16."

As a person who claims belief in science, and fact based statements, I would like you to show me the bodybuilding.com posts by Steve regarding his AAS usage. 

You will find none.  Steve never made those posts, and it is unfair to him, and anyone who reads them for you to claim that as fact. 

If you, or anyone else can show me Steve's posts on the subject, I will shut up.  But, the fact is, there were no posts. 

How he got looped into that, I don't know. 
As far as I know, Steve never boasted about his natural status at either teen national competition.  Others posted regarding the fact, and I said that he was, in fact natural at those shows. 

I'm sure you will convieniently skip over this post, to avoid having to confront your lies, but I would really like to see you address the issue. 


I have no cares in a discussion as to whether drugs work, or how much they work.  My post is purely for the fact that Adonis has lied about "the Steve Kuclo posts on bodybuilding.com," and it's not fair to him, who has never boasted once about his status at the time.

[Yorkie T]

Adam,
   I see you post quite frequently regarding Steve Kuclo, and his natural status at the teen nationals. 
As you put it, I believe he's "been juiced to the gills since he was 16."

As a person who claims belief in science, and fact based statements, I would like you to show me the bodybuilding.com posts by Steve regarding his AAS usage. 

You will find none.  Steve never made those posts, and it is unfair to him, and anyone who reads them for you to claim that as fact. 

If you, or anyone else can show me Steve's posts on the subject, I will shut up.  But, the fact is, there were no posts. 

How he got looped into that, I don't know. 
As far as I know, Steve never boasted about his natural status at either teen national competition.  Others posted regarding the fact, and I said that he was, in fact natural at those shows. 

I'm sure you will convieniently skip over this post, to avoid having to confront your lies, but I would really like to see you address the issue. 


I have no cares in a discussion as to whether drugs work, or how much they work.  My post is purely for the fact that Adonis has lied about "the Steve Kuclo posts on bodybuilding.com," and it's not fair to him, who has never boasted once about his status at the time.

so are you saying he wasnt clean then?

[troponin]

so are you saying he wasnt clean then?

I'm saying he WAS natural then, not clean. 
I want Adonis, or anyone else to show me the threads where Steve said otherwise.   

[The True Adonis]

When were steroids readily available to the public? I know that test was first synthisized back in the 30's I think, but I am talking about the general public being able to get a hold of them. Show me ONE picture of any bodybuilder before steroids that was as big as any of these guys today!

I'm not knockin any of these guy at all so don't miss understand me, but even 500mgs of test a week is going to put a hell of a lot of mass on a guy or even 3 Dbol. And I don't want to hear about better training methods or equipment either. Have you ever seen some of the shit that Arnold had to use? Better nutrition? Come on, nothing is better than whole foods.

THIS MAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH!

You can trust him as well.  He is working with Kamali and I think, you just may see an improvement in King.  We shall see.

[troponin]

THIS MAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH!

You can trust him as well.  He is working with Kamali and I think, you just may see an improvement in King.  We shall see.

Adonis,
   Please address my previous posts if would.

[Yorkie T]

I'm saying he WAS natural then, not clean. 
I want Adonis, or anyone else to show me the threads where Steve said otherwise.   

Do you have any pictures from that contest when he was 16 that you said he was natural in? ive never seen them and probably neither have a lot of others, then we can make up our own minds, as its blatantly obvious if someone has juiced.

[The True Adonis]

Adam,
   I see you post quite frequently regarding Steve Kuclo, and his natural status at the teen nationals. 
As you put it, I believe he's "been juiced to the gills since he was 16."

As a person who claims belief in science, and fact based statements, I would like you to show me the bodybuilding.com posts by Steve regarding his AAS usage. 

You will find none.  Steve never made those posts, and it is unfair to him, and anyone who reads them for you to claim that as fact. 

If you, or anyone else can show me Steve's posts on the subject, I will shut up.  But, the fact is, there were no posts. 

How he got looped into that, I don't know. 
As far as I know, Steve never boasted about his natural status at either teen national competition.  Others posted regarding the fact, and I said that he was, in fact natural at those shows. 

I'm sure you will convieniently skip over this post, to avoid having to confront your lies, but I would really like to see you address the issue. 


I have no cares in a discussion as to whether drugs work, or how much they work.  My post is purely for the fact that Adonis has lied about "the Steve Kuclo posts on bodybuilding.com," and it's not fair to him, who has never boasted once about his status at the time.

They deleted them all when I brought attention to it.

At least Dante` admits it partially.  I don`t care if Kuclo juices, but I do have a problem with him claiming Lifetime Natural and I do have a problem with him thinking his genetics are so great.  He is just average like Phil Heath,Ronnie Coleman, yourself,myself, and everyone else that picks up a weight and trains consistently.  The human genome is not up for discussion as it is Scientific Fact that their is little variance in natural humans for muscle development.

Phil Heath never broke the 200 lb Ripped (2-5 percent bodyfat) under 6 Feet,Natural Barrier either, just like Coleman.never did.  

[The True Adonis]

I'm saying he WAS natural then, not clean. 
I want Adonis, or anyone else to show me the threads where Steve said otherwise.   

What does that mean?
Natural but not clean?

You either are natural or not.

[alexxx]

They deleted them all when I brought attention to it.

At least Dante` admits it partially.  I don`t care if Kuclo juices, but I do have a problem with him claiming Lifetime Natural and I do have a problem with him thinking his genetics are so great.  He is just average like Phil Heath,Ronnie Coleman, yourself,myself, and everyone else that picks up a weight and trains consistently.  The human genome is not up for discussion as it is Scientific Fact that their is little variance in natural humans for muscle development.

Phil Heath never broke the 200 lb Ripped (2-5 percent bodyfat) under 6 Feet,Natural Barrier either, just like Coleman.never did.  

How about Vic Richards? The guy was a muscular 215 pounds at 15 years old before he ever touched a weight.

[The True Adonis]

I'm saying he WAS natural then, not clean. 
I want Adonis, or anyone else to show me the threads where Steve said otherwise.   

So you are admitting, in fact, that he used steroids at 16 and before.

I rest my case.

[troponin]

They deleted them all when I brought attention to it.

At least Dante` admits it partially.  I don`t care if Kuclo juices, but I do have a problem with him claiming Lifetime Natural and I do have a problem with him thinking his genetics are so great.  He is just average like Phil Heath,Ronnie Coleman, yourself,myself, and everyone else that picks up a weight and trains consistently.  The human genome is not up for discussion as it is Scientific Fact that their is little variance in natural humans for muscle development.

Phil Heath never broke the 200 lb Ripped (2-5 percent bodyfat) under 6 Feet,Natural Barrier either, just like Coleman.never did.  

Steve has never claimed lifetime natural status.  He does not think he is any genetic superbeing either.  
He also NEVER made posts on bodybuilding.com asking about steroids.  You can even search for his name there, he has never made a post on that site as far as I know.  

At some point in time, the question arose as to whether or not Steve was natural at the time of his teen national wins.  I replied that he was.  
There was no more debate, or questioning after that.  
He was natural for both of those shows, and was over 200lbs at both shows, as a teen.  This is pretty impressive in my opinion.  

Please remember that this is ME posting on this issue.  NOT Steve.  If you ever met him, you would see that he is not boastful or arrogant in any way.

And regarding the human genome, if you have a subscription to Discover magazine, there is an interesting article on that topic on page 32 of this month's issue.  

[The True Adonis]

How about Vic Richards? The guy was a muscular 215 pounds at 15 years old before he ever touched a weight.

 

[troponin]

So you are admitting, in fact, that he used steroids at 16 and before.

I rest my case.

Clean implies that he had used at some point, and it was he was "clean" of juice at the time of the show.  This was not the case for him.

He was "natural."  Meaning he had NEVER used steroids.

I did not want to get caught up in a word play game that I've seen people often use.  

[Yorkie T]

Clean implies that he had used at some point, and it was he was "clean" of juice at the time of the show.  This was not the case for him.

He was "natural."  Meaning he had NEVER used steroids.

I did not want to get caught up in a word play game that I've seen people often use.  

is there any pictures from his teen nationals show?

[troponin]

is there any pictures from his teen nationals show?

www.repetrope.com should have photos of most national events.

[Yorkie T]

www.repetrope.com should have photos of most national events.

im not a member of that site and it looks like the site is designed for gays so i think ill pass on the membership, i thought you might have some pictures to prove your point.

[troponin]

im not a member of that site and it looks like the site is designed for gays so i think ill pass on the membership, i thought you might have some pictures to prove your point.

pictures prove nothing. 
repetrope is the company that photographs for the NPC at national shows.  As far as I know, you don't have to be a member. 
There are some photos of Steve on my website, see my signature.

[Yorkie T]

pictures prove nothing. 
repetrope is the company that photographs for the NPC at national shows.  As far as I know, you don't have to be a member. 
There are some photos of Steve on my website, see my signature.

Ive seen pictures of him before, i want to see pictures of him from that teen nationals where he was supposed to be natural, if anyone could find them and post them up that would be great. are those on your site from that show?

[The True Adonis]

Ive seen pictures of him before, i want to see pictures of him from that teen nationals where he was supposed to be natural, if anyone could find them and post them up that would be great. are those on your site from that show?

I would like to view them as well.

A lot can be garnered from a simple set of photographs.

[troponin]

Ive seen pictures of him before, i want to see pictures of him from that teen nationals where he was supposed to be natural, if anyone could find them and post them up that would be great. are those on your site from that show?

Yeah, there are a few on my site from both teen national shows.  I'm sure you can also see photos at his site www.stevekuclo.com



But, the pictures don't prove anything. 
The only thing I want to clear up is the bodybuilding.com posts.  There were no posts made by Steve. 
He never made a post on any site that would claim he was using or looking for steroids. 

[The True Adonis]

Yeah, there are a few on my site from both teen national shows.  I'm sure you can also see photos at his site www.stevekuclo.com



But, the pictures don't prove anything. 
The only thing I want to clear up is the bodybuilding.com posts.  There were no posts made by Steve. 
He never made a post on any site that would claim he was using or looking for steroids. 

You won`t find any by BIGSDAWG anymore either although DANTE` has admitted that they existed and so have many others.  I have seen them myself.

Perhaps a deletion order ensued.