Author Topic: Phil Heath  (Read 73548 times)

troponin

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #250 on: October 14, 2006, 12:38:06 PM »
You won`t find any by BIGSDAWG anymore either although DANTE` has admitted that they existed and so have many others.  I have seen them myself.

Perhaps a deletion order ensued.

You know Steve didn't make any post there.  You've seen bigsdawg's posts, but you never saw Steve's posts, because there weren't any. 

Bigsdawg apparently used for 15 days, and then quit.  So, whether or not that had any lasting benefit, he chose to discontinue, and train without the aid of aas. 
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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #251 on: October 14, 2006, 12:45:22 PM »
Justin, I am a big fan of you and Steve
especially Steve since as a teen bber myself, I am very impressed by his physique NATURAL OR NOT
it is useless to discuss here if Steve juiced or not, the fact his everyone can say whatever they want only him knows the truth.
while I won't say if I believe he is/was natural, I'll say that I almost never believe what people tell me about the subject as everyone are usually lying bout it weather it is the usage or the doses.

thanks for giving your side of the story, you should come here more often !

troponin

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #252 on: October 14, 2006, 01:51:07 PM »
Justin, I am a big fan of you and Steve
especially Steve since as a teen bber myself, I am very impressed by his physique NATURAL OR NOT
it is useless to discuss here if Steve juiced or not, the fact his everyone can say whatever they want only him knows the truth.
while I won't say if I believe he is/was natural, I'll say that I almost never believe what people tell me about the subject as everyone are usually lying bout it weather it is the usage or the doses.

thanks for giving your side of the story, you should come here more often !

Thank you.

What you say is true.  I'm just here to stick of for a good friend, on things that I fully believe to be true. 

And, all I've heard from anyone who's met Phil Heath, he's a great guy. 
I keep my nose out of people's business for the most part.  But, from everything I've heard about Phil, he's a "good" guy.
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Van_Bilderass

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #253 on: October 14, 2006, 02:36:07 PM »
When were steroids readily available to the public? I know that test was first synthisized back in the 30's I think, but I am talking about the general public being able to get a hold of them. Show me ONE picture of any bodybuilder before steroids that was as big as any of these guys today!

I'm not knockin any of these guy at all so don't miss understand me, but even 500mgs of test a week is going to put a hell of a lot of mass on a guy or even 3 Dbol. And I don't want to hear about better training methods or equipment either. Have you ever seen some of the shit that Arnold had to use? Better nutrition? Come on, nothing is better than whole foods.
Thanks for keeping it real.  ;D

Disgusted, what do you think of the claim that Ronnie Coleman had never touched steroids when he turned pro? I know On Swole has also said Ronnie was natural and that he competed in his first pro shows completely natural. Could it be true?

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #254 on: October 14, 2006, 02:39:52 PM »
EVEN PHIL HEATH ADMITTED,

That he was NEVER over 200 lbs ripped under 6foot Natural.


He also said stated that his conditioning was not as good the closer he approached that figure.


Therefore, a lighter bodyweight, Natural(Provided he is as he stated) would have been ideal and not his higher one.

So Phil Heath by those standards, admits that he would have looked best in the 170s-180s as a Natural.

Interesting.

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #255 on: October 14, 2006, 02:45:07 PM »
This is where these kinds of peoples delusion comes in and im not specifically even talking about kuclo here either, they expect us to believe that they are clean or naturals when its so fucking obvious they arent, they protest it so much i think they even start to believe it themselves.

These are the same people who slam getbig.com, do they ever wonder why people like them get tore a new arsehole on here, because there lying pos's.
8) B.B.C. 8)

troponin

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #256 on: October 14, 2006, 02:48:06 PM »
This is where these kinds of peoples delusion comes in and im not specifically even talking about kuclo here either, they expect us to believe that they are clean or naturals when its so fucking obvious they arent, they protest it so much i think they even start to believe it themselves.

These are the same people who slam getbig.com, do they ever wonder why people like them get tore a new arsehole on here, because there lying pos's.


Who has protested it so much? 

Most naturals I know barely talk about it.  They have better things to talk about.   

The people protesting it are the people saying they AREN'T natural.  The people under suspect rarely, if ever post in these threads.
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Disgusted

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #257 on: October 14, 2006, 03:30:18 PM »
Thanks for keeping it real.  ;D

Disgusted, what do you think of the claim that Ronnie Coleman had never touched steroids when he turned pro? I know On Swole has also said Ronnie was natural and that he competed in his first pro shows completely natural. Could it be true?

Could it be true? Personally I don't think so. Not to slam anyone, but think of it this way, How can anyone!!! know what someone else is doing? One of my close friends kept his steroid use from his wife for all the years he was competing. She went around telling everyone that he was natural because this is what he told her. You don't get any closer to someome than that. Not unless you are with them 24/7 even when they are taking a shit.

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #258 on: October 14, 2006, 03:43:43 PM »
Could it be true? Personally I don't think so. Not to slam anyone, but think of it this way, How can anyone!!! know what someone else is doing? One of my close friends kept his steroid use from his wife for all the years he was competing. She went around telling everyone that he was natural because this is what he told her. You don't get any closer to someome than that. Not unless you are with them 24/7 even when they are taking a shit.

So disgusted in your mind everyone is guilty until proven otherwise? How do they prove otherwise?

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #259 on: October 14, 2006, 03:50:06 PM »
For me it's not about proving someone guilty or not, it's about being realistic. The steroid era physiques are just different, not just bodyweight wise but quality wise.
If we trust we trust Ronnie when he said he was natural when winning his card we should trust what he said circa 1996 "I've never done steroids, I've never even smoked marijuana!". I mean his word is good right? How do we know WHEN he lies and when he just jokes around?

Look at the pics here:
http://metroflexgym.com/ronnie.htm

Doesn't look like he made THAT huge a leap between 1991 and 1996. DC which year do you think he started using?
The way I see it, juice definitely from 1991 at the latest (probably cycled for YEARS at that point)... 1996-98 high dose insulin/gh coctail to make the big leap to Olympia status.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #260 on: October 14, 2006, 04:11:28 PM »
Anyone have pics of Ronnie from 1991? From the Universe?


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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #261 on: October 14, 2006, 04:13:58 PM »
Because there are millions of people who take steroids.....none who get onstage at 286 to 303lbs. A normal enhanced 5'10" man is up there at 225 to 235. A very special  person with elite genetics and enhanced will be up there at 240 to 255lbs. Coleman is up there 50lbs of muscle mass over those people.  I dont expect the most massively muscled enhanced bodybuilder of this generation to be comparable to the average good natural bodybuilder if he were also natural. I would expect him also to set the standard of being the most massive natural bodybuilder just as he did enhanced.

Van if a freind of yours that you knew well was an elite bodybuilder and "said person" had absolutely no clue at all (I mean zilch) about any kind of bodybuilding pharmacopia would that prove to you that he is clean?  To the point that he decided at one point to use (to get on a level playing field) and you Van had to teach him from scratch the most bottom of the barrel basics? Because I know of a situation just like that happening (from the guy who had to teach him)

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #262 on: October 14, 2006, 04:34:05 PM »
Dante, you can't compare to the millions of people who take steroids.  Pros don't just take steroids, they practically mainline the stuff.  That said, Phil is even ahead of those who do mainline it, so yes, he is very above average with his response to all the factors of bodybuilding.

Never let us forget that Phil did not even break the 200 lbs Ripped Barrier as a Natural as per` his own admittance. Add the fact that he readily pointed out that he would have looked best at 170-180 lbs.


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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #263 on: October 14, 2006, 04:49:26 PM »
The BEST "enhanced" bodybuilders in the world (eg. Ronnie, Dexter, Jay, DHenry) would be the BEST natural (drugfree) bodybuilders in the world.  I know, it's hard to swallow but bb is all about genetics!

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #264 on: October 14, 2006, 04:51:25 PM »
The BEST "enhanced" bodybuilders in the world (eg. Ronnie, Dexter, Jay, DHenry) would be the BEST natural (drugfree) bodybuilders in the world.  I know, it's hard to swallow but bb is all about genetics!
No you have to account for response to drugs which is not always the same among the genetically gifted.

Let's assume La Cour is natural and is among the best naturals. Do you think he would be top 3 Olympia juiced? Nope.

Disgusted

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #265 on: October 14, 2006, 04:59:38 PM »
So disgusted in your mind everyone is guilty until proven otherwise? How do they prove otherwise?


Who says anyone has to be guilty? All I'm saying is that you or anyone else does not absolutley know that Ronnie never took steroids before he was pro. That is a fact.

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #266 on: October 14, 2006, 05:00:36 PM »
What does he mean "looked best"?  He still has good lines at 216.

I don't know what he would have looked like as a natural, but one thing is obvious and that is that as a juiced bodybuilder he looks great.  There is no pro who would ever win a state show as a natural, period.

We are not speaking of him post 200.

He said in an aforementioned post, that in the low 190s his conditioning was off. So, had he been a lower bodyweight, he would have looked his absolute best.

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #267 on: October 14, 2006, 05:01:50 PM »

Who says anyone has to be guilty? All I'm saying is that you or anyone else does not absolutley know that Ronnie never took steroids before he was pro. That is a fact.

A HARD FACT!


Disgusted.  Please remain accessible as I see you as part of the new breed of truth talkers.  Welcome aboard.

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #268 on: October 14, 2006, 05:06:18 PM »
The BEST "enhanced" bodybuilders in the world (eg. Ronnie, Dexter, Jay, DHenry) would be the BEST natural (drugfree) bodybuilders in the world.  I know, it's hard to swallow but bb is all about genetics!

That is not true at all.

There is no correlation of a top Natural bodybuilder, once enhanced, will become the crème de' le' crème of the IFBB world.

The inverse also applies.  The Top juiced bodybuilders, if Natural, would not necessarily  be the finest in the Natural world.

IT DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT AT ALL!

Disgusted

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #269 on: October 14, 2006, 05:14:57 PM »
A HARD FACT!


Disgusted.  Please remain accessible as I see you as part of the new breed of truth talkers.  Welcome aboard.

I guess I am a truth talker to a degree, but I also respect a lot of these guys so I do not want to come off as insulting them. I think Ronnie is a freak and I am a big fan of freaks but that's just me. I personally don't care how much or little Ronnie takes, I still admire the amount of mass that he is carrying. What I don't like is some of these guys claiming to be natural when in fact they are not. It's a small world when it some to bodybuilding trust me.

Now I want to make a comment on about Phil Heath. Phil seems like a down to earth type guy and pretty cool. I think that he has an awesome physique. Freaky arms shoulders and forearms. Phil does not come on here and make claims about being natural or not taking this or that. (as far as I know). Now, some people do come on here who may or may not be his friends and makes claims about how little that he takes. Maybe he does, but that is not that point .By saying this kind of stuff I think it actually takes away from Phil. Why can't we just let Phil's physique speak for itself. So what if he takes more or less he is great no matter what.

Disgusted

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #270 on: October 14, 2006, 05:17:43 PM »
That is not true at all.

There is no correlation of a top Natural bodybuilder, once enhanced, will become the crème de' le' crème of the IFBB world.

The inverse also applies.  The Top juiced bodybuilders, if Natural, would not necessarily  be the finest in the Natural world.

IT DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT AT ALL!

This is true. Everyone responds differently to drugs.

I have always said that the best bodybuiler to ever live never touched a weight in his life. He's probabely some guy with a beer gut who golfs everyday.  :P

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #271 on: October 14, 2006, 05:20:06 PM »
The inverse also applies.  The Top juiced bodybuilders, if Natural, would not necessarily  be the finest in the Natural world.


Yup, all we have to do is look at pics of the clean Mike Morris. He was NOTHING clean,  and clean only a few months. Some may say he was still crashing at that point but I think he would look even worse if he competed now. Certainly smaller because some steroid induced size can be maintained for a good while and it may come off pretty slowly.

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #272 on: October 14, 2006, 05:21:08 PM »
Because there are millions of people who take steroids.....none who get onstage at 286 to 303lbs. A normal enhanced 5'10" man is up there at 225 to 235. A very special  person with elite genetics and enhanced will be up there at 240 to 255lbs. Coleman is up there 50lbs of muscle mass over those people.  I dont expect the most massively muscled enhanced bodybuilder of this generation to be comparable to the average good natural bodybuilder if he were also natural. I would expect him also to set the standard of being the most massive natural bodybuilder just as he did enhanced.

Van if a freind of yours that you knew well was an elite bodybuilder and "said person" had absolutely no clue at all (I mean zilch) about any kind of bodybuilding pharmacopia would that prove to you that he is clean?  To the point that he decided at one point to use (to get on a level playing field) and you Van had to teach him from scratch the most bottom of the barrel basics? Because I know of a situation just like that happening (from the guy who had to teach him)

With all due respect DC (and I genuinely mean that, not like some who use that phrase as a preface for facetiousness)
you have to qualify a lot here.

Pro's are doing a little (sarcasm) more than just your average gym rats cycle of 600 deca/and dbol cycle for 12 weeks.
That said, all the roids in the world won't help the genetic inferior win a show but you can bet your ass he'll grow like a weed up to a point. Pro's do crazy amounts for crazy amounts of time and you've spelled this out in the past pretty clearly when you were talking about how top pros never come off.

It's disingenuous to compare someone doing a recreational cycle for a few months 2x per year to a pscyho professional who lives and dies so they can be huge. For Christs sake guys are losing kidneys left and right, and you can argue that it's the diuretic abuse(because it is), but it paints a clear picture of *what they're willing to do* to get a certain look at the expense of their own life. The same attitude most hold true for anabolic/gh use, it just goes to reason that the all-or-die principle is active year round, not just when it comes time to dry out. This is the mentality of a pro.
Moreover, the mentality of what it takes to be a pro today.

Pro's have gotten consistently bigger for the past 30 years. You can't say it's due to nutritional advances or advances in training. An egg still has 5 grams of protein and 200 pounds is still 200 pounds unless you're on the moon.
I think guys trained harder/smarter in the 70's or 80's anyway.
Shit, in the 70's guys were going apeshit with tons of food and doing arcane shit like drinking chickens blood
(heard that directly from a former competitor) and anything else you can fathom. BUT, a cycle of 600 mg deca/and 20 mg. dbol was considered "high tech" in 1979, as well as "pushing it". I'm not pulling that out of my ass either, this was
from a competitor who answered all of my questions straight up. (Jeff Sneed) Who, was nice enough to pull me aside and say ...."don't take GH whatever you do, kid don't do it, I regret ever touching it"
To *some* extent you can argue that the pro ranks are pulling from a *larger* (not specifically better) gene pool
than they were 30 years ago, but you can't reasonably argue that a 1984 Lee Haney had any less better genetics than what we see now genetically speaking? Has evolution logarithmically advanced in 20 years time?

So what then is the reason pros keep getting freakier and bigger for the past 20 years?
Muscletech? No. More and more and more copious amounts of everything drug related.
To ignore this is just silly. I've indulged and as I sit here I can confidently say that the only thing standing between me
and another 10 pounds LBM is more sauce/varied compounds, higher cals and another 12-16 months of training.
So many guys bullshit about the drug issue it's just ridiculous. As much as Adonis is a fucking pain in the ass, he
sometimes makes a point..even if it's on the top of his head.

As for Heath....well only he knows the truth of the matter..and he ain't talking. ;)







Disgusted

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #273 on: October 14, 2006, 05:23:12 PM »
BTW, does anyone have any pics of Ronnie when he turned pro.

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Re: Phil Heath
« Reply #274 on: October 14, 2006, 05:25:41 PM »
With all due respect DC (and I genuinely mean that, not like some who use that phrase as a preface for facetiousness)
you have to qualify a lot here.

Pro's are doing a little (sarcasm) more than just your average gym rats cycle of 600 deca/and dbol cycle for 12 weeks.
That said, all the roids in the world won't help the genetic inferior win a show but you can bet your ass he'll grow like a weed up to a point. Pro's do crazy amounts for crazy amounts of time and you've spelled this out in the past pretty clearly when you were talking about how top pros never come off.

It's disingenuous to compare someone doing a recreational cycle for a few months 2x per year to a pscyho professional who lives and dies so they can be huge. For Christs sake guys are losing kidneys left and right, and you can argue that it's the diuretic abuse(because it is), but it paints a clear picture of *what they're willing to do* to get a certain look at the expense of their own life. The same attitude most hold true for anabolic/gh use, it just goes to reason that the all-or-die principle is active year round, not just when it comes time to dry out. This is the mentality of a pro.
Moreover, the mentality of what it takes to be a pro today.

Pro's have gotten consistently bigger for the past 30 years. You can't say it's due to nutritional advances or advances in training. An egg still has 5 grams of protein and 200 pounds is still 200 pounds unless you're on the moon.
I think guys trained harder/smarter in the 70's or 80's anyway.
Shit, in the 70's guys were going apeshit with tons of food and doing arcane shit like drinking chickens blood
(heard that directly from a former competitor) and anything else you can fathom. BUT, a cycle of 600 mg deca/and 20 mg. dbol was considered "high tech" in 1979, as well as "pushing it". I'm not pulling that out of my ass either, this was
from a competitor who answered all of my questions straight up. (Jeff Sneed) Who, was nice enough to pull me aside and say ...."don't take GH whatever you do, kid don't do it, I regret ever touching it"
To *some* extent you can argue that the pro ranks are pulling from a *larger* (not specifically better) gene pool
than they were 30 years ago, but you can't reasonably argue that a 1984 Lee Haney had any less better genetics than what we see now genetically speaking? Has evolution logarithmically advanced in 20 years time?

So what then is the reason pros keep getting freakier and bigger for the past 20 years?
Muscletech? No. More and more and more copious amounts of everything drug related.
To ignore this is just silly. I've indulged and as I sit here I can confidently say that the only thing standing between me
and another 10 pounds LBM is more sauce/varied compounds, higher cals and another 12-16 months of training.
So many guys bullshit about the drug issue it's just ridiculous. As much as Adonis is a fucking pain in the ass, he
sometimes makes a point..even if it's on the top of his head.

As for Heath....well only he knows the truth of the matter..and he ain't talking. ;)








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