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Author Topic: How many here can shoulder press over 225 Naturally?  (Read 17545 times)
onlyme
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« Reply #150 on: October 12, 2006, 12:56:18 AM »

I'm not sure this is revalent.  I just started back training hard in January. I finally got my bench back up to 405 for 3 or 4 reps depending in feeling.  I was doing 315 seated front presses for 6 to 8 depending.  I very rarely do more than 6 reps and if I do I'll 8.  Most of the time I would just stick with 225 or 275.  But my shoulders were and have been my strong point.  I am okay in the bench but definitely not as much as I thought I should have been.  I have very strong triceps and my upper arm stays very hard no matter how long I stay out of the gym.  I just have strong tri's.  I know that is a very important part of doing the pressing movements and more than likely why I am okay at them. 
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« Reply #151 on: October 12, 2006, 04:44:28 AM »

How much you can shoulder press vs. bench press obviously is heavily dependent on what of the involved muscles are relatively stronger and weaker.  In other words someone with strong delts and tris and a relatively weak chest might shoulder press much closer to what they can bench and vice versa.  To assume someone else has the same ratio as yourself is just ignorant.
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« Reply #152 on: October 12, 2006, 04:51:54 AM »

Fellows, post some pics with your claims, please. It would be a lot better for some of us here to believe. this way, we wont have to ponder for too long. just a suggestion
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« Reply #153 on: October 12, 2006, 06:24:59 AM »

Quote
How does that not make sense? I've benched 380, but can only do one or two reps with 225 on the overhead press. Those lifts are perfectly consistent with one another. I actually have a hard time believing that anyone with a 405 bench could shoulder press 315 for 3 reps, as "usmokepole" was claiming. That's the kind of shoulder strength you would expect from a 500+ bencher
why is that hard to believe brian? i max at 460 on the bench but hit 315 for two sets of 6 on the seated overhead presses...(DISCLAIMER: ON SMITH MACHINE AND JUST BELOW PARALELL) and I'm not a 500+lb bencher...I just train my delts to BE big benchers just like my tri's! if you have strong shoulders and tri's then it's not OMFG IMPOSSIBLE TO DO...If your shoulder presses aren't in direct correlation with your benching..it just means your chest does most of the work and your shoulders aren't as involved as others...

or you just have weak shoulders.  Undecided  for the longest time that's the only exercise i did for shoulders because that was al that was needed til i jig'd my shoulder up and i trained it on the same platform i train my benching on.
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texasRUSH
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« Reply #154 on: October 12, 2006, 06:27:04 AM »

Quote
I'm not sure this is revalent.  I just started back training hard in January. I finally got my bench back up to 405 for 3 or 4 reps depending in feeling.  I was doing 315 seated front presses for 6 to 8 depending.  I very rarely do more than 6 reps and if I do I'll 8.  Most of the time I would just stick with 225 or 275.  But my shoulders were and have been my strong point.  I am okay in the bench but definitely not as much as I thought I should have been.  I have very strong triceps and my upper arm stays very hard no matter how long I stay out of the gym.  I just have strong tri's.  I know that is a very important part of doing the pressing movements and more than likely why I am okay at them.

i would LOVE to see someone do 405 PERIOD just for sheer shock value alone! think you will get it soon keith?  Huh
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« Reply #155 on: October 12, 2006, 06:30:59 AM »

How does that not make sense? I've benched 380, but can only do one or two reps with 225 on the overhead press. Those lifts are perfectly consistent with one another. I actually have a hard time believing that anyone with a 405 bench could shoulder press 315 for 3 reps, as "usmokepole" was claiming. That's the kind of shoulder strength you would expect from a 500+ bencher.
totally agreed, a 315 shoulder press for full reps puts you in very elite company. a guy at my gym did 315 for 4 all the way down to his upper chest one time and i asked him what his bench was and he said 5 plates for a good single, so if someone is pressing 315 their bench should be well over 405.
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« Reply #156 on: October 12, 2006, 06:33:35 AM »

yeah i'm with you on this one sarcasm...if you can touch and go from your chest with 300+ you're the man... 
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« Reply #157 on: October 12, 2006, 06:33:57 AM »

Isnt it true that if you do heavy presses, esp dumbells that you can damamge your rotater cup ?? And now pros who are older start off with lateral raises then proceed to presses which they do at moderate weight ?
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« Reply #158 on: October 12, 2006, 06:36:00 AM »

yeah i'm with you on this one sarcasm...if you can touch and go from your chest with 300+ you're the man... 
on shoulder presses or benches?
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« Reply #159 on: October 12, 2006, 06:38:06 AM »

yeeeeeeeeeeeep that is why warm up for this exercise is key! and why some of us dont' go past a certain point to put overdue stress on the cuff and open the shoulder joint up too much...i have a tendon that, when i hit about chin level with heavy weight, will roll over in my shoulder and give off an audible pop..doens't hurt but it makes me uncomfortable so I adjusted my training accordingly.  This is one exercise that if you go too hard and aren't ready for it..you'll royally screw yourself up.  Best to have a training partner or use the rack and/or smith machine in this exercise...dumbbells are kinda outta hte question i think, especially if you're looking to go heavier than most gyms carry in dumbbell weights...but the transition from the pick up to putting it over your head for that first rep is kinda dangerous unless you're used to it, especially without a training partner to help you get the weights up.
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« Reply #160 on: October 12, 2006, 06:38:40 AM »

Quote
on shoulder presses or benches?

shoulder presses...
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« Reply #161 on: October 12, 2006, 06:44:52 AM »

shoulder presses...
absolutely.
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Jaejonna rows 125!!
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« Reply #162 on: October 12, 2006, 06:46:53 AM »

going to your chest on shoulder presses is inproper form and puts you shoulders in a vunerable position. about 2 inches above your chest or a little below chin level is considered correct. i can almost incline more then i can bench and have rarely done bench in the last couple years. incline is a much better pec developer, shoulders are my strongest point i would say.
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« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2006, 06:50:56 AM »

going to your chest on shoulder presses is inproper form and puts you shoulders in a vunerable position. about 2 inches above your chest or a little below chin level is considered correct. i can almost incline more then i can bench and have rarely done bench in the last couple years. incline is a much better pec developer, shoulders are my strongest point i would say.
yeah i'd agreew ith you there, you should at least go to below the chin.
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Jaejonna rows 125!!
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« Reply #164 on: October 12, 2006, 06:59:12 AM »

Yaawwwnnnn...
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« Reply #165 on: October 12, 2006, 07:01:17 AM »


I just hurt my wrist.
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« Reply #166 on: October 12, 2006, 07:24:40 AM »

why is that hard to believe brian? i max at 460 on the bench but hit 315 for two sets of 6 on the seated overhead presses...(DISCLAIMER: ON SMITH MACHINE AND JUST BELOW PARALELL) and I'm not a 500+lb bencher...I just train my delts to BE big benchers just like my tri's! if you have strong shoulders and tri's then it's not OMFG IMPOSSIBLE TO DO...If your shoulder presses aren't in direct correlation with your benching..it just means your chest does most of the work and your shoulders aren't as involved as others...

or you just have weak shoulders.  Undecided  for the longest time that's the only exercise i did for shoulders because that was al that was needed til i jig'd my shoulder up and i trained it on the same platform i train my benching on.

LOL My boy we are talking about free weights and not those confortable machines you speack so highly off. Do I need to teach you how to train?
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« Reply #167 on: October 12, 2006, 07:33:15 AM »

you've bested me again alexx as usual with your amazingness  Roll Eyes Tongue
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« Reply #168 on: October 12, 2006, 10:40:26 AM »

How much you can shoulder press vs. bench press obviously is heavily dependent on what of the involved muscles are relatively stronger and weaker.  In other words someone with strong delts and tris and a relatively weak chest might shoulder press much closer to what they can bench and vice versa.  To assume someone else has the same ratio as yourself is just ignorant.

Of course strength ratios among muscle groups are going to be different for everyone, but relatively speaking a trained lifter should have strength that is in proportion to lifts that use the same muscle groups, especially for compound lifts. 
CAse in point, refer to onlyme and texasRush's posts and you see that their shoulder press is in proportion to what they ought to be able to do relative to bench press.
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« Reply #169 on: October 12, 2006, 11:09:11 AM »

Lol, I should have qualified it as anyone but you.  Based upon your other lifts and your size I have ZERO problem believing you can do it.  Tell you what, from now on if I call b.s. on lifts you are exempt.   Wink

Now, for all of the others who make the claim I would LOVE to see it.  I am sure there are some that can but I am equally sure half of the jacks claiming such lifts here are full of shit.
Chris. I believe that the ability to handle a ton of weight on military press can be attributed to the structural build of a BB.
I am a lifetime Natty, and I have allways been VERY strong in all my presses. ESP Military.
I have done 315 for 6-8 reps routinely. Front press. I am also 6'1 and 250ish.
I now do more weight, but on the front smith press, for I feel it is safer. 
I prefer to focus on side laterals for bigger delt caps, but the mass builder was allways presses.


I would agree that seeing someone pressing over 225 for front military presses is a rare event, but not uncommon.
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« Reply #170 on: October 12, 2006, 11:22:41 AM »

I have watched people do front presses (seated) who only go down part way.  I have never liked to train with people who do half reps and less just to do the weight I do.  I never say anything cause it makes them feel good let them do it.  I have always done full reps no matter what.  Ever since I started lifting.  I love pausing for a long time on the bottom.  I have done that for many years.  WHen I used to be strong I could 500 on my chest like nothing.  Used ot do it at Muscle Mill Ray Mentzers gym.  I loved training at 4pm to 6pm when the gym was the busiest.  I loved benching and when I saw a new member getting a tour I loved showing off.  I would literally lay the bar on my chest and lay there while they walk by and could here them say to Ray or whoever "is that guy alright does he need help" then I would push the weight up and do 3 or 4 reps.  I used to do the same thing at the Golds in vegas.  But the weight went done.  I would only do it with 405.  Now I am so weak it is down to 315.  I still start at the bottom in the seated front press.  I have the guy lift it off and I start from the bottom and pause every rep.  It is just how I have been doing it forever.  I promise once I get back into the gym and get my strength up again I will video it.  I can talk about my pressing movements but not my pulling.  There is really nothign to brag about there.  My highest dead was okay but nothing spectacular.  I don't do allot of pulldowns or back work anymore.  And I do no legs except for extensions and curls.
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« Reply #171 on: October 12, 2006, 11:26:16 AM »

I do not feel that one should go more than an inch past the chin while doing front presses.
I feel that you rotate out the cuff, and you are at risk of injury.

The stress put on your shoulders, or the difference between going just below the chin, and to the shoulder, is very similar IMO.  I do not think that the added injury risk one takes while going all the way down is worth it.

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« Reply #172 on: October 12, 2006, 11:29:20 AM »

Quote
I do not feel that one should go more than an inch past the chin while doing front presses.
I feel that you rotate out the cuff, and you are at risk of injury.

The stress put on your shoulders, or the difference between going just below the chin, and to the shoulder, is very similar IMO.  I do not think that the added injury risk one takes while going all the way down is worth it.

unless you're a gorilla in heat like this guy...  Tongue

Quote
I have watched people do front presses (seated) who only go down part way.  I have never liked to train with people who do half reps and less just to do the weight I do.  I never say anything cause it makes them feel good let them do it.  I have always done full reps no matter what.  Ever since I started lifting.  I love pausing for a long time on the bottom.  I have done that for many years.  WHen I used to be strong I could 500 on my chest like nothing.  Used ot do it at Muscle Mill Ray Mentzers gym.  I loved training at 4pm to 6pm when the gym was the busiest.  I loved benching and when I saw a new member getting a tour I loved showing off.  I would literally lay the bar on my chest and lay there while they walk by and could here them say to Ray or whoever "is that guy alright does he need help" then I would push the weight up and do 3 or 4 reps.  I used to do the same thing at the Golds in vegas.  But the weight went done.  I would only do it with 405.  Now I am so weak it is down to 315.  I still start at the bottom in the seated front press.  I have the guy lift it off and I start from the bottom and pause every rep.  It is just how I have been doing it forever.  I promise once I get back into the gym and get my strength up again I will video it.  I can talk about my pressing movements but not my pulling.  There is really nothign to brag about there.  My highest dead was okay but nothing spectacular.  I don't do allot of pulldowns or back work anymore.  And I do no legs except for extensions and curls
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no one
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« Reply #173 on: October 12, 2006, 12:11:58 PM »

I can.

cough*bullshit*cough
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b
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« Reply #174 on: October 12, 2006, 12:41:23 PM »

if you can bench 400 like danielson( 4 reps with 365 is very very close) your shoulder press should not be 200 pounds lower unless all you do is bench.
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