Hey Ron Harris, Here's how you do real shoulder presses!

[natural al]

Hmmm...

 Okay so I'm gonna stretch the shit out of my delts...take about 5-10 minutes in actively stretching. Then I'm going to start with Smith Machine Front presses.

 Here's what a warmup would be like...plate a side for 10 reps...wait 60 seconds and stretch again...same weight for another 10. Focus on negative. Stretch again for a minute...plate and 25 a side...10 reps.

 1st set 2 plates a side...10 quality reps. Now 2 plates and 25 and a 5 a side...with a spotter with fingers on my elbows I will try to get 5 on my own with 2-3 fingertap ever so slight tap on the way up kind of spot. Then I'll rack it count to 20 and hit 3 more...rack it count to 15 and do 2-3 more...rack it count to 15 and do 2 more.

 I'll have my partner strip off the 25 and 5 off each side and I'll do 3 negative reps with 2 plates a side...8-10 second negative on each rep.

 Now take 2-3 minutes and stretch moderately again...then it's Nautilus laterals...60lbs for 8 reps(warmup) then I'll go with 100lbs for 10-12 reps, focus on the negative.

 Take 2 minutes and my final will be 130lbs for 7-9 quality reps and set it down...count to 20 and do 4-5 more...set it down count to 15 do 2-3 more set it down count to 10 and do 2 more. Then I'll count to 5 and do as many quater reps as I can until I can no longer do anymore...pure utter failure beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 How's that, natural_al? Ron?

If you want my honest opinion as far as DC training goes, it's just too much.  I don't know if your natural or not but I'll assume you are.  If you go like that and keep on upping your weights and/or your reps your gonna be fried in a few weeks.  It takes a different mindset to do this type of training and it's hard to just do "one set".  Here is what I did for shoulders the other day, I'm not a total stickler for doing tons of warm ups, I only do what I feel is necassary.  I started with Chest that day on the Hammer Incline and did one warm up for 20 reps with a plate a side.  I did another warm up for 12 reps with 2 plates a side.  after that set I did some reallly light stretching for my shoulders.  Then I did one warm up for 4 reps with about 80% of my working weight.  I did my chest movement to failure, static and stretch.  By that time my shoulders are pretty warm so I did one high rep warm up on the hammer shoulder press for 15 reps and another for 4 with 80% of my work weight.  Then I did my set to failure, I couldn't get the weight back up for a static so I grabbed a couple of 25lbs plates and did a "crucifix" with them until I could not hold them up at all then I did my stretch for 60 seconds.  that's it, heavy as possible and next time I do it I'll beat the weight or the reps, I might only get 1 or 2 more total reps or 5 more lbs but I'll beat it.

[Blockhead]

 Okay I get it...

 You grow consistently doing it like that?

[natural al]

Okay I get it...

 You grow consistently doing it like that?

I'm up to 208 at about 5'7".  I can handle some pretty good weight.  I had my BF measured in a fitness class I took awhile ago and they came up with 12%, I don't know how accurate that was.  My waist is under control and I have "visable" abs and viens in my forearms.  I don't do any cardio right now so I think I look fine.  I have not been consistant for the last couple of years due to some personal reasons which I can go into via PM if you're really interesteed, I'd say what they are but some assholes around here get off on someone's personal tragedies.

yes, I've put on some decent size using this routine.

[Blockhead]

  Aint no thang...

 Mr. Dante also reccomends moderate cardio even in an 'offseason', right?

 I'm trying to get in the habit of 20 minutes of mild-moderate cardio POST workout and 30-40 moderate cardio in the am before bfast 2wice a week.

[hillbilly]

this is how you really handle 225, not the half reps almost standing up that you do,

&NR

It showed Branch doin 4 plates in last months flex i wudnt mind seein wat his reps were like on vid. if there as good as that guys it wud shock the hell outta me!

[natural al]

  Aint no thang...

 Mr. Dante also reccomends moderate cardio even in an 'offseason', right?

 I'm trying to get in the habit of 20 minutes of mild-moderate cardio POST workout and 30-40 moderate cardio in the am before bfast 2wice a week.

cardio is "supposed" to be done everyday you don't train legs, first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.  If you do that and you feel you're burning sum muscle away throw down a whey shake or some BCAA's.  I'm having alot of trouble sleeping so I can't seem to get "out of the box" and get up in time to do my cario.  I'm gonna try to get going starting tomorrow.  He also recommends a "carb cutoff" at about 5-6 o'clock that way you're burning fat in the morning and not glycogen.

[Blockhead]

 Interesting...so he reccomends cardio in the am and weights in the afternoon?

 I don't train till 8pm. How do I swing that...I should have some carbs post workout(9:30).

 Off days I can follow the cutoff etc...

 Is upping the fats reccomended when carbs are cut or faded out? Like Omegas, fishoil etc?

[natural al]

Interesting...so he reccomends cardio in the am and weights in the afternoon?

 I don't train till 8pm. How do I swing that...I should have some carbs post workout(9:30).

 Off days I can follow the cutoff etc...

 Is upping the fats reccomended when carbs are cut or faded out? Like Omegas, fishoil etc?

I know more about the training aspects of the program than the diet, I know the basic diet stuff but if it gets to complicated I'll have to bow out.  Post work out carbs are fine.  I "think" fats are fine after the cut off, you can also eat veggies since I think he's talking about starchy carbs like rice and stuff.  You are supposed to eat protien first, then veggies then carbs.  He also does not want you eating carbs and fats at the same meal so you either eat protien and fat or protien and carbs.  The theory is you load up on protien first and everything else comes second, there are a ton of explanations as to why which I really don't have the time or the knowledge to get into.  Like I said, I know the basics of the diet not all the ins and outs.  I don't follow the diet word for word but I have in the past and it worked well for me.  I have some medical issues that prevent me from eating that much protien right now, I get in about 200 grams a day...on a "good" day I get 230-240 but that's not very often.

[Blockhead]

 10-4.

  I understand what he's saying. I reccomend the same kind of theroies more or less to others. I'm a better coach than player.

 Okay natural_al. Thanks kid...

 Holla!

[DOGGCRAPP]

Cardio every off training day--if you lift 4 days a week you do cardio on your 3 off days---if you lift 3 days a week, cardio on your 4 off days.

You either lift or you do cardio on any given day.

(thats a basic start of things and it gets kind of worked out on an individual basis if more or less is needed...but thats a basic start)

[natural al]

Cardio every off training day--if you lift 4 days a week you do cardio on your 3 off days---if you lift 3 days a week, cardio on your 4 off days.

You either lift or you do cardio on any given day.

(thats a basic start of things and it gets kind of worked out on an individual basis if more or less is needed...but thats a basic start)

well, looks like i need to reread the old log, sorry bout that.  I didn't give out wrong info on purpose......

[Blockhead]

 As always in the early morning before anything is consumed, I presume. BCAA's/glutamine beforehand or in your waterbottle to sip?

 I am guessing it is different for everybody depending on where they are or how much bf they are holding but in general I understand you aren't big on long marathon cardio sessions...

 So the 30-40 minutes range at a moderate intensity?

[DOGGCRAPP]

well, looks like i need to reread the old log, sorry bout that.  I didn't give out wrong info on purpose......

Im kind of going by what we discussed previously about yourself Al...your on the 3 way split now so i would have you taking a walk with the wife or walking to do some errands (taking the hilly route with both of those), or some treadmill work on your offdays. Somebody else I might do something slightly different but thats what i would do with you (and its a good start in a general sense)

[The Squadfather]

Yeah, shouldn't he pause for a full second at the bottom to totally eliminate momentum, go all the way up, and get a slower, more controlled negative?

Steve is without doubt stronger than I am. He is also 265 pounds to my 225.

Squadfather, I am waiting for your lifting videos so I can critique! I want to see you do that press with 315 for 10 perfect reps.

i never claimed to press 315 for even one let alone 10 "big guy", i can currently do 225 for 5 below my chin, BTW absloutely massive arms and traps in that "most muscular" shot.

[Monster_Everything]

i never claimed to press 315 for even one let alone 10 "big guy", i can currently do 225 for 5 below my chin, BTW absloutely massive arms and traps in that "most muscular" shot.

thats some good wieght...i can only do 205 for 6 ish ...

[The Squadfather]

thats some good wieght...i can only do 205 for 6 ish ...

that's damn good as well, there's not much difference in mine and yours lifts.

[Monster_Everything]

I hear stories from old people who lifted heavy presses and say things like they have torn thier rotator cups and what not....so i rather get a burn or do heavy laterals (not the chicken dance variety either) than do heavy presses...i guess thats why im not a pro? oh well

[Monster_Everything]

I'll see what I can do...should be a respectable amount since I was up to the 105s for dumbbells with minimal spotting if any, for at least a decent working set.  But what benefit is there in going below parallel on the military press?

paying a doctor and therapist for the ensuing injuries are the only benefits that come from that ....
Matt C your shoulders are a bit overpowering, maybe you should change it up ..jmho

[dan18]

that's damn good as well, there's not much difference in mine and yours lifts.

free or on the smith machine

[dan18]

paying a doctor and therapist for the ensuing injuries are the only benefits that come from that ....
Matt C your shoulders are a bit overpowering, maybe you should change it up ..jmho

I cant believe this im 100% in agreement, i would never go down that far to the chin then up again ,when you go lower you also take the tension off the muscle..

[The Squadfather]

I'll see what I can do...should be a respectable amount since I was up to the 105s for dumbbells with minimal spotting if any, for at least a decent working set.  But what benefit is there in going below parallel on the military press?

the benefit is that you build bigger shoulders and actual strength.

[dan18]

the benefit is that you build bigger shoulders and actual strength.

how would you know 225 max hahahahahahahahahaa

[The Squadfather]

how would you know 225 max hahahahahahahahahaa

i know man i'm weak as hell, i mean EVERYONE barbell shoulder press 225 for 5 seated.

[The Squadfather]

What about the potential for rotator cuff injury though?  To be honest, I had traditionally always done them all the way down, but recently a friend of mine who was training for football said parallel is adequate.  Just something I've been thinking about lately.

Yes, this is true and it would just make my physique more imbalanced to develop them further.  I do want to get all my max lifts on youtube eventually though, after all my instructional clips are up.

i don't think partial reps are ever "adequate".

[Pazuzu]

Post a video clip of this alleged 225-pound press or else you are full of shit. For that matter, post even one posing shot. You won't. I triple dog dare you.

"I have nothing to prove - I'm twice a big as Ronnie and Jay put together hahahahahaha."

Until I see pics or a video, I am convinced you are 14 years old and 120 pounds, hiding behind your keyboard and snickering behind your braces at how you've got GetBig fooled into believing you are some juiced-up beast.