Point taken. I'm assuming you're with Matt on the "drowned rat" prediction, which is understandable. He probably would look pretty thin at 160, and I could see where you'd prefer to see him carry a little more size before cutting down. Now what about this: What if Matt's gonna stay natural? Should he still bulk before dieting down if that's the case? How much difference is his bulking up 15-20 pounds naturally before cutting naturally gonna make in the grand scheme of things? How much natural weight do you approximate he'll carry at 6% if he starts dieting now, as opposed to going up to, say, 195-200 before cutting without drugs?
this all thread became too long for me to read,,so ill answer this post individually and try to remember the other posts along the way,,i did read some of them
you are talking here about apples and oranges,,adonis talks about NATURAL lifters and NATURAL no chemical bodybuilding,,
most of the other here talk about natural bodybuilding that some time or another goes chemical,,
mattc going up to 200lb from his current size/weight/bf% NATURALLY will result at him being 200lb with couple more % of bodyfat and some water held between the muscle and skin,,,i dont see a need for that,,
at the best case he will hold 200lb with same 10-12% bodyfat but that will only happen if strict diet full of extra clean calroeis are applied and his muscle memory and genetic response allow it,,remember he want to get BIGGER
now,, many of the things adonis say here are true but they wont grow you,,,they will cut you up after you already been a huge mother fucker at 250lb like adnois was!! he didnt come out of no where,,guy was number of constant years at it hitting every method he could think of at gaining size,,you are not talkin here about a guy that woke up in the morning 170lb 20% and said hooo..tommorow i will be 165lb 6% by eating junk,,,this is not the case here my friends
so,,you can eat 3 times a day chinease in moderation and strict your calories and get cut and ripped,,,but you gotta have some size/muscle size to cut from,,you also got to be active,,you cant do it out of the blue when you sitting at 180 15% and do nothing all day long,,,
if you go this way you need to start at 220+lb 12%-15%,,that will allow you to cut and look muscular while still having decent size on you at the end process,,ESPECIALLY IF NATURAL ALL THROUGH.
now to the questions asked by mac,,
matt should first bulk,,and i suggest he does it with hormones,,he will blow up right at hit 210-220,,this is MY opinion
also mattc if start dieting down now naturally and by naturally i mean nothing on beside food,,will be 155lb at 6%bf if he is 180lb like you said somewhere here,,as cut and ripped as 6% is you dont wanna be 5'10 155 6% its just doesnt work in usa,,maybe in china or malesia it does,,for asian small frame lifters,, but not in the good ole usa for italian and irish guys,,
if he climb up naturally to 200lb,,he will also be 13-14% and that means that in the grand look of things ,,,he will still have to go down in weight to ~ 160 maybe 160 and some change to be anything close to 6%
this is how i see it,,
good genetics is one thing,,having good arms like mattc has that will grow naturally little bit and show cut at 200lb is one thing,,but it doesnt promise him to be 200lb and 10% naturally,,,for that he will have to grow right and growing
right to the 200+zone with low enough bf% as in 10-11% or less involve hormones (again im talking here 5'8,,59,,etc)
