The WICKED truth about my training

[thewickedtruth]

i'll probably catch some shit for saying this but i've always thought that the fancy Westside bench techniques are for guys already benching 500+, i believe you really need to pound the regular old bench press heavy until you reach that level and then tweak stuff to go with the shirt work, you say your bench has gone down well i'd just go back to benching heavy and then wait a couple of years until if and when you hit that number, not that i'm a huge bencher myself but i've just never seen the sense of it.

It's worked great for everything BUT my benchpress.. and I've been doing alot of research on both the elitefts site, raw power lifting fed websites, etc. and here's what I've come to. I need to bench twice a week but to do percentage work. Dave tate says to do benches with bands, chains, no more than 2 boards, etc. with raw benching. I want to be back in the 400's again. As ridiculous as it sounds, being in the high 300's bothers me..alot. Feels like alot of hard work has gone to waste..

the plan now is to work percentages for awhile and see how that works. One day I'll do speed work, and one day I'll do HEAVY doubles in the 90-95% range that is recommended. In dave's book it says that big raw benchers need to find out a way to work in the 90% or a tad higher range on a regular basis without over training FULL RANGE! My squats and deads are doing fantastic but I think I'm going to have to take another approach to benching. Do dynamic work, HEAVY work, and do accessory shit afterwards for 4 sets on delts and tris' after and then back. Not a million pressing this and that. I will rotate OHP's in there every so often but at the moment, I need to be working with percentages it seems or at least that's the answer I've come to after reading and reading and reading some more. You've also got to remember that this program was developed for juicers...and I've been told this by countless lifters in big feds that use because you MUST to compete at that level unless you're a phenom like our Jason Pegg who's putting up kickass numbers without gear. I'm doing the conjugate method for lowerbody but for my bench specifically I'm going to do percentage work on a heavy and dynamic day.

[The Squadfather]

i'm the same way with my bench, through trial and error i've found that i HAVE TO bench heavy every week, if i take it easy with higher reps, dumbbells, incline instead of flat, etc. i regress.

[thewickedtruth]

i'm the same way with my bench, through trial and error i've found that i HAVE TO bench heavy every week, if i take it easy with higher reps, dumbbells, incline instead of flat, etc. i regress.

Yep. I noticed when I was benching in the 4's I was benching weekly and going HEAVY all the time. Now the dynamic work is really helping my bar speed and is making me hold my groove and really giving me drive out of the hole no problem but doing dynamic work and then doing something ELSE instead of benching is killing my bench! 385 felt like I was under a fucking truck today when before it wasn't a big deal. I'm going to give benching this new way a legit try for a month or a little longer and reaccess from there.

COC gripper training!

on the road to closing the 4 in a year! 

150# gripper for a couple warm up reps
300# gripper for two reps each hand and that was it..couldn't close it for a third
250# gripper for 3 sets of 10
250# gripper for 30sec holds
200# gripper to failure for reps in both hands..

[thewickedtruth]

here's the plan now for increasing my bench...

4 week cycle starting at 50% and working up to 65% on dynamic work before new max on the fifth week and do one more exercise for the chest and then one tricep exercise after

work up to 5 sets of 90% of 1RM on bench with doubles and do two tricep exercises after

we'll see if this starts to recover my lost 400lb bench...

[Stubborn]

i'll probably catch some shit for saying this but i've always thought that the fancy Westside bench techniques are for guys already benching 500+, i believe you really need to pound the regular old bench press heavy until you reach that level and then tweak stuff to go with the shirt work, you say your bench has gone down well i'd just go back to benching heavy and then wait a couple of years until if and when you hit that number, not that i'm a huge bencher myself but i've just never seen the sense of it.

Might be true for some but it wasnt until I used Westside that I hit 405. Takes all kinds though!

[BFP]

i'll probably catch some shit for saying this but i've always thought that the fancy Westside bench techniques are for guys already benching 500+, i believe you really need to pound the regular old bench press heavy until you reach that level and then tweak stuff to go with the shirt work, you say your bench has gone down well i'd just go back to benching heavy and then wait a couple of years until if and when you hit that number, not that i'm a huge bencher myself but i've just never seen the sense of it.

I wont give you shit for it, as I think you make a pretty valid point here for the most part.  Bear with me for a second, and keep in mind, Im generalizing, not specifying any individuals.  There is nothing fancy about the westside method.  Nothing. Is it an advanced system?  Absolutely.  But its not fancy. The people that want to make it fancy are, in my experience, either completely new to training, or have some training experience but no powerlifting experience.  They are also the same people who suffer from "paralysis by analysis."  As opposed to getting in the gym and lifting spmething heavy, they get so caught up in what percentage they need to be using with what band on their DE squat that they dont even really lift, and their strength starts slipping to the left.  Or, on the other hand, they are so weak when they start, that the program does them no good.  Do you need to be a 500lb bencher to use the conjugate method?  Of course not.  However, at the same, trying to do speed benches with 55lbs and a miniband is like pissing up a rope.  It just doesnt make sense.

Jason

[thewickedtruth]

My problem is that I started out doing 425 for a single and 405 for doubles and triples and now it looks like I'm floating around the 365-380 range for a new max. EVERYTHING is getting stronger except my bench. Now thing ABOUT my bench have improved alot and down the road will pay dividends.  I do know from the past that when I was benching 2 times a week...once for speed and one maxing day that I made decent gains. With the conjugate method..everytime I get under anything close to my old max it's hard as FUCK to move when that used to not be the case.

I know guys that do one day that's 50% no matter what for speed and then MAX on teh flat bench once a week. I know other guys that do EXACTLY as westside describes and then guys that do A max..and do triples with 70-90% for 6 weeks moving up in weight and test for a new bench after.

I cut out the extra back work, I'm doing heavier shit for my tri's and it's still not making much difference...suggestions jason?! 

[BFP]

My problem is that I started out doing 425 for a single and 405 for doubles and triples and now it looks like I'm floating around the 365-380 range for a new max. EVERYTHING is getting stronger except my bench. Now thing ABOUT my bench have improved alot and down the road will pay dividends.  I do know from the past that when I was benching 2 times a week...once for speed and one maxing day that I made decent gains. With the conjugate method..everytime I get under anything close to my old max it's hard as FUCK to move when that used to not be the case.

I know guys that do one day that's 50% no matter what for speed and then MAX on teh flat bench once a week. I know other guys that do EXACTLY as westside describes and then guys that do A max..and do triples with 70-90% for 6 weeks moving up in weight and test for a new bench after.

I cut out the extra back work, I'm doing heavier shit for my tri's and it's still not making much difference...suggestions jason?! 

NO ONE there maxes on the flat bench every week.  I think you might want to switch around your ME moves more often for starters.  Remember to try and follow the template that we talked about earlier.  IM not going to talk about the guys that do the triples.  I train with the conjugate system, so I have no experience with that at all.  Also, remember, as you get used to PL style benching, your weights will drop some.  Just give it time to come around.

Jason

[thewickedtruth]

DE lowerbody

belt only parallel box squats
barx12x1
bar+choked up monster minis and blue bandsx12x1  (280/120)
135x3x1
225x3x1
315x3x1
335x2x1
335x2x1
335x2x1
335x2x1
335x2x1
335x2x1
365x2x1 (645 at the top/485 at the bottom) NEW PR!! super easy! I'm going to start using 365 for my DE box squats now...335 felt ridiculous.

I'm using a wide stance.. AND KEEP SITTING ON MY FUCKING NUTS!!!    THE LAST SET FELT LIKE I GOT HIT IN THE STOMACH AT THE BOTTOM! I'm bringing a foam pad for the box next time.

leg press (low back pumped pretty good so I wanted to do these... )

12platesx12x1
20platesx10x1
24platesx10x1
28platesx10x1
30platesx6x1..could've done more but called it a day!

good mornings

barx10x1
135x10x1
225x10x1
225x10x1 and lowerback was pretty much smoked so I didn't go any higher. Still paying for the sldl's from monday.


barbell shrugs

135x10x1
315x10x1
500x10x1
645x6x1

dumbbell preacher curls

50lbsx8x1
60lbsx8x1
70lbsx8x1
80lbsx3x1

not a bad day in the gym! 

[Stubborn]

If you can make progress with that much weight on DE days, congrats! I couldnt do that twice a week. Thats what 40lbs above your max at the top and 80% at the bottom?

[thewickedtruth]

If you can make progress with that much weight on DE days, congrats! I couldnt do that twice a week. Thats what 40lbs above your max at the top and 80% at the bottom?

Yeah and it was easy as hell. I've always had strong legs and they can take alot of punishment.. And doing doubles compared to 10-20 rep sets is a walk in the park. AND I know when my ass hits that box that I'm at parallel with the heavier shit. I think one ME lowerbody day I'm going to do banded box squats..and from now on with all my squatting I will use the box to make sure I make depth.. no box no lift.   I unracked it and put it back the first time because it felt so fucking heavy.. but rallied my gym balls and went for broke nad it pad off and not only did it pay off but it was the easiest double of the night.

[The Squadfather]

i remember Louie saying something about trying to imagine you're pushing the floor apart with your feet when you do box squats with the toes pointed out, i can't even imagine doing box squats with a close to medium foot stance, seems like it would defeat the whole purpose.

[Stubborn]

i remember Louie saying something about trying to imagine you're pushing the floor apart with your feet when you do box squats with the toes pointed out, i can't even imagine doing box squats with a close to medium foot stance, seems like it would defeat the whole purpose.

I actually use 3 different stances when squatting (super wide, just outside shoulder width, and feet straight under shoulders). I do this because I dont always have the same stance in Strongman and I feel I get a better rounded workout this way.

Wicked, I get that doubles are easier than 10-20 rep sets, haha. Just wondering about the SPEED on these box squats? They should be very fast as opposed to strenuous. If you make good progress good deal, all Im saying is it would start to bring me backwards in numbers.

[The Squadfather]

yeah seems like the whole point of the DE day is bar speed and moving that bar as fast as possible, any of you guys ever do that lactic acid tolerance training where you do something like 25 sets of 2 with 50% and 25-30 seconds rest between sets? i saw Tate do it with like 365 on box squats with the safety squat bar and it looked brutal.

[Stubborn]

Never tried that but it sounds beneficial to me. I would be stiff as hell after that but I may give it a try in the weeks preceeding my next comp.

[haider]

yeah seems like the whole point of the DE day is bar speed and moving that bar as fast as possible, any of you guys ever do that lactic acid tolerance training where you do something like 25 sets of 2 with 50% and 25-30 seconds rest between sets? i saw Tate do it with like 365 on box squats with the safety squat bar and it looked brutal.

did u see this on video, or in person?

[The Squadfather]

did u see this on video, or in person?

it was on video, on one of those youtube clips, if you get on youtube enter EliteFitnessSystems into the search engine and it's in that huge group of videos, it's the video called "LATT training".

[haider]

it was on video, on one of those youtube clips, if you get on youtube enter EliteFitnessSystems into the search engine and it's in that huge group of videos, it's the video called "LATT training".

Sweet, thanks. My deadlift form comes straight from an article he wrote on t-nation.com, another great website for powerlifting and also bodybuilding information.

[thewickedtruth]

I actually use 3 different stances when squatting (super wide, just outside shoulder width, and feet straight under shoulders). I do this because I dont always have the same stance in Strongman and I feel I get a better rounded workout this way.

Wicked, I get that doubles are easier than 10-20 rep sets, haha. Just wondering about the SPEED on these box squats? They should be very fast as opposed to strenuous. If you make good progress good deal, all Im saying is it would start to bring me backwards in numbers.

oh they're fast as hell... I drive it up hard and fast without much effort. It's helping alot with my form too!

[thewickedtruth]

DE upper body.....from now on.. one tricep exercise to combat overtraining after benching.

BW-257

speed bench 50% of a 370 max bp at the bottom...
barx20x2
bar+choked monster minisx20x2
135x5x1
185x5x8 all paused at the bottom and exploded upwards...VERY fast. I have to stop trying to fight the bar on the way down. I don't know where that shit started but I'm working hard to get rid of it.

barbell jm presses
barx10x1
135x10x1
225x4x3 new pr and STRONG in it throughout too..

bentover barbell rows (lowerback still sore as fuck)

135x10x1
315x10x1
405x10x1
425x6x1

dumbbell seated front raises

50lbsx8x4

...i also use a 30lb dumbbell and cart it around with me to do overhead extensions and hammers between sets of heavy shit to keep my elbows from bothering me and it seems to work wonders.

[Stubborn]

260lbs now, damn! How tall are you again?

[thewickedtruth]

260lbs now, damn! How tall are you again?

6'

[haider]

can u post a vid of those strict bb rows? (no, seriously i would like to see)

And what's with the front raises?

[thewickedtruth]

I never said my barbell rows were strict..read the log..

and what do you mean what's wrong with front raises?!

[haider]

I never said my barbell rows were strict..read the log..

and what do you mean what's wrong with front raises?!

I said I wanna see the form on those...

Why do the front raises? Just trying to build up your front delts or what?