... if he cheated on you?

[Deedee]

Guess that's a perfect example of cultural differences then.  I don't know that I would think of it as a question of respect after 20 years, and I would also have to consider my own contribution to the state of the relationship. I guess.

[knny187]

Cultural differences....morals... .family values...self respect.

Yeah...I can see where it could be different.  I'm not a religious person....but I do believe in some of the writings in the bible apply to us now...not just to a couple thousand years ago.

[cl]

well, you are comparing apples and oranges, if you go into the relationship accepting that your partner is weak and will be with someone besides you and that is fine as long as you both are in agreement. But, when you are not in a open type or thought relationship.... and you both know that then... their is no excuse.... some wants to have their cake and eat it too...... besides the fact you lie and hide what you are doing or done.... that shows a lot of respect for your partner.... and I don't think any person wants or should accept being mad a fool, lied to by a stranger yet some one who is suppose to hold your heart and love...

[muscleforlife]

Cultural differences....morals... .family values...self respect.

Yeah...I can see where it could be different.  I'm not a religious person....but I do believe in some of the writings in the bible apply to us now...not just to a couple thousand years ago.

I think I would be able to forgive if cheated on.  None of us are perfect.
Besides, if in a marriage, what about your vows, sickness and health, good times and bad, richer or poorer.

Did you mean them when you said them or just at the time they were said.

Now, if it were a full blown love affair and not a wham, bam, thank you ma'am, that is a whole other issue.

Sandra

[knny187]

I think I would be able to forgive if cheated on.  None of us are perfect.
Besides, if in a marriage, what about your vows, sickness and health, good times and bad, richer or poorer.

Did you mean them when you said them or just at the time they were said.

Now, if it were a full blown love affair and not a wham, bam, thank you ma'am, that is a whole other issue.

Sandra

If you're married....please let you husband know this information.

I'm sure he would rest a little more easily knowing that cheating is ok...as long as it's not a full blown love affair.

[Cap]

I think I would be able to forgive if cheated on.  None of us are perfect.
Besides, if in a marriage, what about your vows, sickness and health, good times and bad, richer or poorer.

Did you mean them when you said them or just at the time they were said.

Now, if it were a full blown love affair and not a wham, bam, thank you ma'am, that is a whole other issue.

Sandra

I will never unedrstand this type of thinking.  Good luck to you.

Even as a guy who has been tempted alot it seems like you (general "you") just devalue the relationship if you cheat and have no respect for your partner.  No matter how much I love a woman, if she cheats she is done.  She can cry all she wants and ask for forgiveness but in the end her shit will be packed up in boxes by the time she comes home from work.

[Deedee]

I think I would be able to forgive if cheated on.  None of us are perfect.
Besides, if in a marriage, what about your vows, sickness and health, good times and bad, richer or poorer.

Did you mean them when you said them or just at the time they were said.

Now, if it were a full blown love affair and not a wham, bam, thank you ma'am, that is a whole other issue.

Sandra

I agree.  It would never be great... probably it would unacceptable if it happened early on. But the longer you are with someone, I would think, the more ties you have, children to think about... and also, just knowing that we are all fallible. A one time thing is weakness. A love affair is duplicitous.

If it came down to it, a beloved one dying of cancer or in a terrible accident, is unbearable.  All the rest, is just life I guess, and somehow forgiveable.

[Deedee]

I will never unedrstand this type of thinking.  Good luck to you.

Even as a guy who has been tempted alot it seems like you (general "you") just devalue the relationship if you cheat and have no respect for your partner.  No matter how much I love a woman, if she cheats she is done.  She can cry all she wants and ask for forgiveness but in the end her shit will be packed up in boxes by the time she comes home from work.

You're reading it all wrong.  Bay asked women what they would do.  No, no man would accept it. But women I suppose, are a little more aware that men tend to separate sex from love... and we are more forgiving.

And please... you're Italian.  Just like the French... a dozen years ago, in your culture, the mistress was lined up before the honeymoon with the wife was over. And that's in Eye-taly, where you plan to find your wife. 

[24KT]

I think I would be able to forgive if cheated on.  None of us are perfect.
Besides, if in a marriage, what about your vows, sickness and health, good times and bad, richer or poorer.

Did you mean them when you said them or just at the time they were said.

Now, if it were a full blown love affair and not a wham, bam, thank you ma'am, that is a whole other issue.

Sandra

There was a nother vow you forgot to mention... forsaking all others. 

i guess this really is one of those you never really know until you cross that bridge kind of thing,
...but one thing is for certain, ...once you break that rust in a relationship, ...you never get it back.

That's why I've never understood women who go on to marry men they steal from others.
You will never ever trust or respect them deep down.

[knny187]

I agree.  It would never be great... probably it would unacceptable if it happened early on. But the longer you are with someone, I would think, the more ties you have, children to think about... and also, just knowing that we are all fallible. A one time thing is weakness. A love affair is duplicitous.

If it came down to it, a beloved one dying of cancer or in a terrible accident, is unbearable.  All the rest, is just life I guess, and somehow forgiveable.

so it's only acceptable if you've been married after 20 years?

 



(I just want to make clear...I am just really having a hard/difficult time understanding)

[Deedee]

so it's only acceptable if you've been married after 20 years?

 



(I just want to make clear...I am just really having a hard/difficult time understanding)

Yes, actually.  I can see where after a long time, people become friends more than anything...

I've seen it... and maybe I'm preparing myself. Or, just not wanting to be like that. But I do understand why it happens.

Plus, you have to know from my point of view, I travel a lot, and see a lot of things, about men...     and I think it happens because there is no understanding, and little remembering from women of what it was like in the beginning.  I don't ever want to be like that. Or have that kind of relationship.

[knny187]

Yes, actually.  I can see where after a long time, people become friends more than anything...

I've seen it... and maybe I'm preparing myself. Or, just not wanting to be like that. But I do understand why it happens.

Plus, you have to know from my point of view, I travel a lot, and see a lot of things, about men...     and I think it happens because there is no understanding, and little remembering from women of what it was like in the beginning.  I don't ever want to be like that. Or have that kind of relationship.

I've done a fair share of traveling (not just in the continental us) & realize men treat women like dogs.  I remember the first time I talked to an Aussie & how pissed he was at american men.  It's because when we pull into their ports, there's literally "thousands" of women waiting on the docks for an American Gentlemen.  Now don't get me wrong...they wanted to party...but they knew they were going to be treated well.

[Cap]

You're reading it all wrong.  Bay asked women what they would do.  No, no man would accept it. But women I suppose, are a little more aware that men tend to separate sex from love... and we are more forgiving.

And please... you're Italian.  Just like the French... a dozen years ago, in your culture, the mistress was lined up before the honeymoon with the wife was over. And that's in Eye-taly, where you plan to find your wife. 

Lol...a good Italian woman to cook and drive me nuts.  Well, at least if I had sons she could transfer her nagging to them.    I think men would forgive emotional cheating over sex or at least be less pissed by emotions. 

To your point about distinctions between sexes, it shouldn't matter.  Cheating is cheating and it is wrong and to forgive it can show a good nature but also weakness and can lead to more cheating.  The argument that we are all fallable is stupid.  When you take your vows of loyalty and to honor the marriage, the vows to do not have exceptions (ex: drunkeness, feeling neglected, etc).  If you feel neglected, get a friend, a dog, a pen pal OR talk with your spouse and tell them of the problem.  I guarantee your man doesn't know 80 percent of the shit going on in your life let alone what is troubling you.  Communication is the key folks.  Justifying bad behavior is stupid.  If you fuck up, own up to it.  Period.  If you cheat, you deserve to never be forgiven.

[Deedee]

I've done a fair share of traveling (not just in the continental us) & realize men treat women like dogs.  I remember the first time I talked to an Aussie & how pissed he was at american men.  It's because when we pull into their ports, there's literally "thousands" of women waiting on the docks for an American Gentlemen.  Now don't get me wrong...they wanted to party...but they knew they were going to be treated well.

No they don't treat women like dogs. What I meant to say, is that I travel a lot, and see how men are trying to get something they don't get at home... what it is, I'm not sure... I think it has to do with separating work and the pressures of home. Mostly I travel in a tribe of men, so I'm accepted into their "realm" and I hear their complaints. I agree with some of them, not with others. But I do get both sides of the story. And I think, mostly, I'll stick to my original story, that I just understand disappointment and longing, because I see it.  

[knny187]

No they don't treat women like dogs. What I meant to say, is that I travel a lot, and see how men are trying to get something they don't get at home... what it is, I'm not sure... I think it has to do with separating work and the pressures of home. Mostly I travel in a tribe of men, so I'm accepted into their "realm" and I hear their complaints. I agree with some of them, not with others. But I do get both sides of the story. And I think, mostly, I'll stick to my original story, that I just understand disappointment and longing, because I see it.  

The problems with most relationships....is they are started too early in life.  People get married to the first thing that comes along.  Then you have countries that still do arranged marriages. 

So with that being said....you wonder why most guys complain about their women?  Secondly, most guys run their relationship in the ground based on lack of participation.  Maybe if they would just spontaneously throw her down every once in awhile with the lights on & the relationship would remain interesting for 20+ years.

[Deedee]

So with that being said....you wonder why most guys complain about their women?  Secondly, most guys run their relationship in the ground based on lack of participation.  Maybe if they would just spontaneously throw her down every once in awhile with the lights on & the relationship would remain interesting for 20+ years.

I'm sure that's the key... I hope so at least. 

Plus, I don't want to sound like I propose it's okay to be unfaithful in any way, lying, etc... I wouldn't do it personally and couldn't live with myself, but just wanted to put it into perspective, in the grand scheme of things...

[knny187]

I'm sure that's the key... I hope so at least. 

Plus, I don't want to sound like I propose it's okay to be unfaithful in any way, lying, etc... I wouldn't do it personally and couldn't live with myself, but just wanted to put it into perspective, in the grand scheme of things...

But seriously.....

at what cost do you value pride, honor & integrity?


If one the Marine Corps taught me...these are things that can never be taken away.  You can give them away or toss them aside like yesterdays garbage, but it's your and only your decision too.  Once they're gone, you can never get them back.  After 20 years of marriage, house, cars, children, 401's, etc...I can leave all that walking away with my "3" intact & simply move on.  Not saying it would be easy...I'm sure it would hurt like hell...but nonetheless...move on.

[Deedee]

But seriously.....

at what cost do you value pride, honor & integrity?


If one the Marine Corps taught me...these are things that can never be taken away.  You can give them away or toss them aside like yesterdays garbage, but it's your and only your decision too.  Once they're gone, you can never get them back.  After 20 years of marriage, house, cars, children, 401's, etc...I can leave all that walking away with my "3" intact & simply move on.  Not saying it would be easy...I'm sure it would hurt like hell...but nonetheless...move on.

Okay, so if you had children, you would just leave them for "honor's" sake?

Anyway, why am I arguing with you about this?    You have your thoughts, and I have mine. I don't think discipline of the mind changes anything about the human condition... and if you're so right... why is it, that since the beginning of time, every tiny excavated piece of art, every thread of literature speaks of longing for something? It's always there, no matter what army or civilization has ever taken over the world. It's inescapable. That's a fact. Humans always hunger for something. 

[knny187]

Okay, so if you had children, you would just leave them for "honor's" sake?

So...one can't be a good father unless he stays with their cheating mother?

If I was a kid...& found my mother cheating on my father....as an adult I would not blame him for leaving her.  Not saying as a child I wouldn't be crying & be upset that mom & dad are not together....but It would teach me that it's ok if when I grow older...that adultery is acceptable in marriage if they stayed together.

Anyway, why am I arguing with you about this?    You have your thoughts, and I have mine. I don't think discipline of the mind changes anything about the human condition... and if you're so right... why is it, that since the beginning of time, every tiny excavated piece of art, every thread of literature speaks of longing for something? It's always there, no matter what army or civilization has ever taken over the world. It's inescapable. That's a fact. Humans always hunger for something. 

Not arguing...just trying to understand.  To me, things have to seem or appear logical.  When they don't is when I question.  Not saying either one of us are going to change opinion. Coming to an understanding is what i'm after in debate although it may not end up mutual.

Humans always hunger for something because we are greedy.  Power, wealth, happiness........greed.  I've always felt, true happiness can not be purchased, doesn't have a price tag, & can't be provided by someone else.

It comes within.  The weaker we are...the more greed we have.

[muscleforlife]

The thing is that you have to know the person you vow to spend the rest of your life with.

I am not so rigid where I can not forgive a mistake.

The case being if it is a full blown love affair, he probably was on his way out anyway.
If just a mistake/stupidity, I would take all information into consideration.
I guess that is what marriage counselling is for.

When I was younger, I thought I would kick his ass out the door.
Now that I am older, I believe I am wiser.

So, if the situation ever arised, I would deal with it.
Anger(lowlife SOB)
Revenge(you did it, so can I)
Reality(counselling and talking about the reason why)

The End( It is over, move on and work my "plan B")

Sandra

[BuffGoddess]

 If it happened to me, I would walk away...There's too many fish out there to settle for a rotten one.

[Dina]

If it was a one time thing, I would prolly forgive but not a love affair or unsafe practice. That does not mean a free get out of jail card. Cheating occurs for a reason, and I would want to know why the heck he cheated and make sure we were both on the same page, and he would be in the dog house for a while and have to make amends

It is easy to say you will walk away, but many times in love there is no pride and when you cannot imagine living without that person in your life then you forgive. At the end of the day we are not perfect.

JMHO

[drkaje]

Dina,

Love may have no pride but it needs to have some sense, LOL!

[Dina]

ha.. i wish it had sense.....

[drkaje]

ha.. i wish it had sense.....

Honestly, for me respect is more important in a relationship than love. If I had to choose between the two in a relationship, respect would always win.