Bonds is getting TOO CLOSE!

[Oldschool Flip]

Well ya, but it depends on the kind of weight. In his case a good part of it was muscle gains in his 30s, rather strange.

Then there's performance. Almost always a drop off some time in the mid-late 30s, which he didn't experience.

Not saying he didn't take steroids, but his numbers were pretty consistent until AFTER the MLB strike. As soon as the homerun race started, I can bet that alot of players who never juiced before were doing then and now.

[Oldschool Flip]

Not just the media though, he gets harassed all the time, gets sent hate mail and death threats. The guy has to worry about someone taking him out just because he's a very sucessful baseball player, you don't see guys like McGwire, Palmeiro, Canseco etc... having to worry about those things. I want him to break the record even badder cause it will be like a big FUCK YOU to all those who don't think he deserves it.

Being a Giants fan, and a Bonds fan, I completely agree. Maybe Bonds isn't the greatest when it comes to interviews and speaking to the media, but the media was more interested in his family disputes than his Baseball carreer. If you've seen the movie "The FAN" with Deniro and Snipes, it was an actual "fiction" story based on Bonds.

[Earl1972]

You've extensively studied the effects of somatatropin, I assume?

not extensively

are you saying it can't make your head grow larger?

just look at his head 15 years ago and look now

E

[americanbulldog]

He was 22 when he started with the Pirates. That Pirates pick is from his 1st year. A 20 year difference with a heavier frame is NOT unusual even for Pro. Look at Dan Marino when he was drafted and when he retired. Probably a 30lb difference. Same with Elway. And these guys ran a lot more than Bonds did. Well, maybe Marino didn't..............

I remember seeing him play for the Hawaii Islanders for a couple of months, he was a tall, lanky slapstick hitter with speed, an arm, range and no power.  There is enough circumstantial evidence to prove he took performance enhancing drugs, but so did everyone else.  It shouldn't diminish his status or what he has done.  Opening day, he STOLE A BASE.  The guy is a stud.  I don't care if he took drugs.  It is MLBs problem because they let the McGuire/Sosa show go on to bring baseball back to prominance.  Why punish Bonds? 

[americanbulldog]

You're a moron.  
He has only hit over 50 home runs in a year ONCE.  
That isn't some major output increase.  
He went from a low 30's a year guy, with some years in the 20's, to a low 40's a year guy, with years in the 30's.  

Everyone thinks he went from 10 homers a year, to 70 home runs every single year.  He had 1 year of huge numbers, and many, many other years of consistency.

Here is Hank Aaron's career stats.  Note his top HR producing year yielded 47 blasts, but lots of consistency. 

Batting  Glossary / Gamelogs:  Year--------19541955195619571958195919601961196219631964196519661967196819691970197119721973197419751976 / Splits:  Year--------Career--------19541955195619571958195919601961196219631964196519661967196819691970197119721973197419751976 / HR Log / PI Finders:Game / Streak / Event / PI vs. Pitcher / Neutralize Stats
    750 Runs /1968 Dodgers / 2000 Rockies   

 Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 1954 20 MLN NL 122  468   58  131  27  6  13   69   2  2  28  39  .280  .322  .447  104  209   6   4       3  13 RoY-4
 1955 21 MLN NL 153  602  105  189  37  9  27  106   3  1  49  61  .314  .366  .540  143  325   7   4   5   3  20 MVP-9,AS
 1956 22 MLN NL 153  609  106  200  34 14  26   92   2  4  37  54  .328  .365  .558  151  340   5   7   6   2  21 MVP-3,AS
 1957 23 MLN NL 151  615  118  198  27  6  44  132   1  1  57  58  .322  .378  .600  166  369   0   3  15   0  13 MVP-1,AS
 1958 24 MLN NL 153  601  109  196  34  4  30   95   4  1  59  49  .326  .386  .546  153  328   0   3  16   1  21 MVP-3,AS
 1959 25 MLN NL 154  629  116  223  46  7  39  123   8  0  51  54  .355  .401  .636  181  400   0   9  17   4  19 MVP-3,AS
 1960 26 MLN NL 153  590  102  172  20 11  40  126  16  7  60  63  .292  .352  .566  155  334   0  12  13   2   8 MVP-11,AS
 1961 27 MLN NL 155  603  115  197  39 10  34  120  21  9  56  64  .327  .381  .594  161  358   1   9  20   2  16 MVP-8,AS
 1962 28 MLN NL 156  592  127  191  28  6  45  128  15  7  66  73  .323  .390  .618  170  366   0   6  14   3  14 MVP-6,AS
 1963 29 MLN NL 161  631  121  201  29  4  44  130  31  5  78  94  .319  .391  .586  179  370   0   5  18   0  11 MVP-3,AS
 1964 30 MLN NL 145  570  103  187  30  2  24   95  22  4  62  46  .328  .393  .514  153  293   0   2   9   0  22 MVP-14,AS
 1965 31 MLN NL 150  570  109  181  40  1  32   89  24  4  60  81  .318  .379  .560  160  319   0   8  10   1  15 MVP-7,AS
 1966 32 ATL NL 158  603  117  168  23  1  44  127  21  3  76  96  .279  .356  .539  143  325   0   8  15   1  14 MVP-8,AS
 1967 33 ATL NL 155  600  113  184  37  3  39  109  17  6  63  97  .307  .369  .573  168  344   0   6  19   0  11 MVP-5,AS
 1968 34 ATL NL 160  606   84  174  33  4  29   86  28  5  64  62  .287  .354  .498  154  302   0   5  23   1  21 MVP-12,AS
 1969 35 ATL NL 147  547  100  164  30  3  44   97   9 10  87  47  .300  .396  .607  178  332   0   3  19   2  14 MVP-3,AS
 1970 36 ATL NL 150  516  103  154  26  1  38  118   9  0  74  63  .298  .385  .574  148  296   0   6  15   2  13 MVP-17,AS
 1971 37 ATL NL 139  495   95  162  22  3  47  118   1  1  71  58  .327  .410  .669  194  331   0   5  21   2   9 MVP-3,AS
 1972 38 ATL NL 129  449   75  119  10  0  34   77   4  0  92  55  .265  .390  .514  147  231   0   2  15   1  17 MVP-16,AS
 1973 39 ATL NL 120  392   84  118  12  1  40   96   1  1  68  51  .301  .402  .643  177  252   0   4  13   1   7 MVP-12,AS
 1974 40 ATL NL 112  340   47   91  16  0  20   69   1  0  39  29  .268  .341  .491  128  167   1   2   6   0   6 AS
 1975 41 MIL AL 137  465   45  109  16  2  12   60   0  1  70  51  .234  .332  .355   94  165   1   6   3   1  15 AS
 1976 42 MIL AL  85  271   22   62   8  0  10   35   0  1  35  38  .229  .315  .369  102  100   0   2   1   0   8
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 23 Seasons        12364      3771     98     2297     73    1383  .305  .374  .555  155       21 121 293  32 328
               3298      2174      624    755      240   1402                            6856
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 162 Game Avg        607  107  185  31  5  37  113  12  4  69  68  .305  .374  .555  155  337   1   6  14   2  16
 Career High    161  631  127  223  46 14  47  132  31 10  92  97  .355  .410  .669  194  400   7  12  23   4  22
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+


Here is Barry's stats.

Batting  Glossary / Gamelogs:  Year--------1986198719881989199019911992199319941995199619971998199920002001200220032004200520062007 / Splits:  Year--------Career--------1986198719881989199019911992199319941995199619971998199920002001200220032004200520062007 / HR Log / PI Finders:Game / Streak / Event / PI vs. Pitcher / Neutralize Stats
    750 Runs /1968 Dodgers / 2000 Rockies   

 Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 1986 21 PIT NL 113  413   72   92  26  3  16   48  36  7  65 102  .223  .330  .416  103  172   2   2   2   2   4 RoY-6
 1987 22 PIT NL 150  551   99  144  34  9  25   59  32 10  54  88  .261  .329  .492  114  271   0   3   3   3   4
 1988 23 PIT NL 144  538   97  152  30  5  24   58  17 11  72  82  .283  .368  .491  147  264   0   2  14   2   3
 1989 24 PIT NL 159  580   96  144  34  6  19   58  32 10  93  93  .248  .351  .426  125  247   1   4  22   1   9
 1990 25 PIT NL 151  519  104  156  32  3  33  114  52 13  93  83  .301  .406  .565  170  293   0   6  15   3   8 SS,MVP-1,AS
 1991 26 PIT NL 153  510   95  149  28  5  25  116  43 13 107  73  .292  .410  .514  161  262   0  13  25   4   8 SS,MVP-2
 1992 27 PIT NL 140  473  109  147  36  5  34  103  39  8 127  69  .311  .456  .624  205  295   0   7  32   5   9 SS,MVP-1,AS
 1993 28 SFG NL 159  539  129  181  38  4  46  123  29 12 126  79  .336  .458  .677  206  365   0   7  43   2  11 SS,MVP-1,AS
 1994 29 SFG NL 112  391   89  122  18  1  37   81  29  9  74  43  .312  .426  .647  182  253   0   3  18   6   3 SS,MVP-4,AS
 1995 30 SFG NL 144  506  109  149  30  7  33  104  31 10 120  83  .294  .431  .577  168  292   0   4  22   5  12 MVP-12,AS
 1996 31 SFG NL 158  517  122  159  27  3  42  129  40  7 151  76  .308  .461  .615  186  318   0   6  30   1  11 SS,MVP-5,AS
 1997 32 SFG NL 159  532  123  155  26  5  40  101  37  8 145  87  .291  .446  .585  170  311   0   5  34   8  13 SS,MVP-5,AS
 1998 33 SFG NL 156  552  120  167  44  7  37  122  28 12 130  92  .303  .438  .609  177  336   1   6  29   8  15 MVP-8,AS
 1999 34 SFG NL 102  355   91   93  20  2  34   83  15  2  73  62  .262  .389  .617  162  219   0   3   9   3   6 MVP-24
 2000 35 SFG NL 143  480  129  147  28  4  49  106  11  3 117  77  .306  .440  .688  191  330   0   7  22   3   6 SS,MVP-2,AS
 2001 36 SFG NL 153  476  129  156  32  2  73  137  13  3 177  93  .328  .515  .863  262  411   0   2  35   9   5 SS,MVP-1,AS
 2002 37 SFG NL 143  403  117  149  31  2  46  110   9  2 198  47  .370  .582  .799  275  322   0   2  68   9   4 SS,MVP-1,AS
 2003 38 SFG NL 130  390  111  133  22  1  45   90   7  0 148  58  .341  .529  .749  231  292   0   2  61  10   7 SS,MVP-1,AS
 2004 39 SFG NL 147  373  129  135  27  3  45  101   6  1 232  41  .362  .609  .812  260  303   0   3 120   9   5 SS,MVP-1,AS
 2005 40 SFG NL  14   42    8   12   1  0   5   10   0  0   9   6  .286  .404  .667  177   28   0   1   3   0   0
 2006 41 SFG NL 130  367   74   99  23  0  26   77   3  0 115  51  .270  .454  .545  156  200   0   1  38  10   9
 2007 42 SFG NL  16   48   12   16   3  0   6   12   1  0  13   7  .333  .468  .771  225   37   0   1   2   0   1
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 22 Seasons         9555      2857     77     1942    141    1492  .299  .443  .609  183        4  90 647 103 153
               2876      2164      590    740      510   2439                            5821
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 162 Game Avg        538  122  161  33  4  42  109  29  8 137  84  .299  .443  .609  183  328   0   5  36   6   9
 Career High    159  580  129  181  44  9  73  137  52 13 232 102  .370  .609  .863  275  411   2  13 120  10  15

Look at his OBP!  Look at his slugging percentage.  How about leading the NL in batting average in 2002 (.370), 2004 (.362).  He has led the NL in slugging every year since 2001!  He is the all time leader in BB, and the all time leader in intentional walks.  Between 2000-2004 he averaged a home run 1-8.3 at bats!  He is the greatest baseball player, PERIOD. 

[MikeThaMachine]

HAHAHAHAHA Bonds has 1000 more walks then Aaron, how can one argue with that, can't believe douche bags on here claim he would have barely hit 500 without any drugs.

[Oldschool Flip]

15 more to go!

[legbreaker]

[quote author=americanbulldog
Here is Barry's stats.
Look at his OBP!  Look at his slugging percentage.  How about leading the NL in batting average in 2002 (.370), 2004 (.362).  He has led the NL in slugging every year since 2001!  He is the all time leader in BB, and the all time leader in intentional walks.  Between 2000-2004 he averaged a home run 1-8.3 at bats!  He is the greatest baseball player, PERIOD. 

[/quote]

That really should be period to thios discussion.  The guy is the best ever.  he is playing a much more competitive game than years back.

Also, I think the intentional walk thing should be banned or at least only aloud to be used 1 time per game and never more.  Ruins the game.

[pumpster]

The "key" according to these guys is to look at Barr's 00-04 stats - excactly when his juicing was maximized!!

[americanbulldog]

The "key" according to these guys is to look at Barr's 00-04 stats - excactly when his juicing was maximized!!

How about the juiced ball.  MLB needed to get back into the spotlight after the strike.  They allowed this to happen, Barry didn't start taking serious stuff until after Sosa and Mac started playing homerun derby.  Does MLB suggest putting an asterisk over the entire period?  BTW, check out pics of ARod when he was senior in High school, is he using GH as well. 

[Oldschool Flip]

How about the juiced ball.  MLB needed to get back into the spotlight after the strike.  They allowed this to happen, Barry didn't start taking serious stuff until after Sosa and Mac started playing homerun derby.  Does MLB suggest putting an asterisk over the entire period?  BTW, check out pics of ARod when he was senior in High school, is he using GH as well. 

THe owners of the MLB needed something to draw the fans back after the strike. What better way then to have one of the most coveted records be broken. They could have cared less if the players juiced. And if steroids are the answer to breaking the records, there should be may young players RIGHT NOW who have a GREAT shot at breaking Bonds HR record.

[americanbulldog]

THe owners of the MLB needed something to draw the fans back after the strike. What better way then to have one of the most coveted records be broken. They could have cared less if the players juiced. And if steroids are the answer to breaking the records, there should be may young players RIGHT NOW who have a GREAT shot at breaking Bonds HR record.

The key thing is longevity.  ARod could easily surpass Bond's record if he can stay injury free. 

[Hedgehog]

for me (and im sure alot of people) i dont hate bonds because he "probably" did steroids. i hate him because he is an arogant, rude asshole.


im sure if it was mark mcgwire who was about to break the record people would feel alot differently about it. and im sure hank aaron would be at that game.

Funny. I'm the other way.

I like Bonds because he's an asshole, disregards what everyone thinks of him. I dislike him because he probably cheated and used steroids.


-Hedge

[americanbulldog]

Funny. I'm the other way.

I like Bonds because he's an asshole, disregards what everyone thinks of him. I dislike him because he probably cheated and used steroids.


-Hedge

But everyone in the 90's was.  What about Reuben Sierra?  Juan Gonzalez?  Lenny Dykstra?  Frank Thomas?  Albert Belle?  Dave Henderson?    I can go on and on about all the juicers, Bond's has just had the longevity.  How many guys in their late 30s start hitting 370?  The dude is SERIOUS talent, and should be considered the greatest of all time. 

[big L dawg]

 :-\um no

[americanbulldog]

^^^He is hitting 362, has 8 home runs in 58 ABs.  With a 828 slugging percentage and a 519 OBP, he is on pace to have another earth shattering year.  And BTW for all the haters, he is 42. 

[pumpster]

^^^He is hitting 362, has 8 home runs in 58 ABs.  With a 828 slugging percentage and a 519 OBP, he is on pace to have another earth shattering year.  And BTW for all the haters, he is 42. 

For all the haters of fairness: don't worry this twit will easily surmount the record, cheating all the way. Don't really care that others did it, he quite obviously did it AND is an obnoxious, sad invidual. All that money, acolades, aclaim and the best he can do is bitterness & resentment.

[MikeThaMachine]

^^^He is hitting 362, has 8 home runs in 58 ABs.  With a 828 slugging percentage and a 519 OBP, he is on pace to have another earth shattering year.  And BTW for all the haters, he is 42. 

I hope he ends up winning another MVP while breaking the record this year which will be a big Fuck You to the haters. I was talking the other day about it and I think it could happen, what a better way to say screw you to all the doubters.

For all the haters of fairness: don't worry this twit will easily surmount the record, cheating all the way. Don't really care that others did it, he quite obviously did it AND is an obnoxious, sad invidual. All that money, acolades, aclaim and the best he can do is bitterness & resentment.

Please elaborate master of all knowledge and sole provider of opinions. Your a complete moron go back to arguing something you know about ( which is nothing regarding anything discussed on this site). Oh wait sorry I have no room to talk I am only 16 and have only been lifting for 6 months When you have any kind of actual point other then just a bullshit opinion which you will state as fact please share even though I doubt that could happen.

[Hedgehog]

Sorry if this has already been answered in the thread:

I thought the MBL had implied some kind of steroid policy, and that frequently testing Bonds would be highest on their agenda (keeping him off-steroids would be good PR, probably).

Can't imagine a bigger disaster, perhaps another lockout/strike, to the MBL than if Bonds would get caught in a random doping test.

So:

If he's producing great numbers right now, is he still juicing, and how can he possibly be?

-Hedge

[legbreaker]

Passing a daily drug screen is very easy to do...just use gh, insulin...

The drug testing is easy to beat, but a daily or weekly testing is much more difficult for steroids only and this is one of the reason that the TRUE steroid era in sports was the mid 80's and NOT 2000.

I have been saying for years that a baseball pitcher with mets asked me tons of questions in 1987 at my friends club every week....it just came out yesterday that the guy selling the stuff in the locker room and working for the mets from 85-95 was either arrested or something like that.

The truth is every single athlete coming into the gym I trained at in mid late 80's used stuff...EVRY SINGLE ONE (baseball, football, boxing, basket ball (college), bodybuilding, track and field olympic trials and womens vollyball).

lay off Barry...he is awesome and the best of the best.

[legbreaker]

Great point, American Bulldog!!!

It is becoming more and more common to see 42 year old guys breaking records, winning titles etc.

Barry, Roger Clemens etc train all year round and don't lay off like the guys that will never be great..

[big L dawg]

yea man Berry's awsome dude epic rolemodel for the kids I plan on teaching my son to be just like him in tee ball

[pumpster]

yea man Berry's awsome dude epic rolemodel for the kids I plan on teaching my son to be just like him in tee ball

Great  One day maybe he too can be a zillionare with the world's worst attitude, filled with resentment and bitterness. Well worth it.

[bmacsys]

I have been saying for years that a baseball pitcher with mets asked me tons of questions in 1987 at my friends club every week....

Come on, name names. Ron Darling? Gooden? Cone? Ojeda? Randy Meyers?

[body88]

Pretty obvious Selig is on the sauce.