In defense of the race card... (very long post)

[Hedgehog]

The largest growing minority class in my hood is East Indian/Pakistani.

Hard working, bringing wealth with them.  The high school has just added hindi to the curriculum.

Some people don't realize the systematic conditioning that America has had on the pysche of it's people.

Otherwise wealthy folk should know how to behave better.

Michael Vick shouldn't have people involved with illegal dog fighting.
Brittney spears shouldn't be allowed to have children to neglect.

on Vick, the verdict is still out.  Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Brittney, well...she has committed no crime.....Unless Kev federline has custody of the children and you don't because of your actions....that should be criminal.

It all begins in the home.
Sandra

Britney, not Brittney.

[Option D]

colored people hold themselves down. this is abundantly clear growing up in new york city. one of the first things that jumps out is that black children who attempt to become educated are referred to as "uncle tom's and sell outs" by the black community.

how the fvck can black children aspire to become successful in that environment?

drkj must live on another planet........come to nyc and see how colored people HOLD THEMSELVES DOWN. no help is needed by any other race.....they do nicely on their own.

wake up to reality "dr".   

HAHAH

Dr.Jake He tried to use the quotes to some way discredit your accomplishments..

Monster redneck...


in other news....It is hilarious how i can tell the level of exposure/education of an individual simply by the retarded comments they spew which are usually uninvestigated comments, simply passed down from other uneducated unexposed idiots.

This is a funny story about my own preconceived generalizations about white people.
I’m from Los Angeles California and I only saw well off, rich, successful white people. So I just thought that’s how all white people are. As you know, I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta GA (the south) and I got a totally different view of white people. Dude I would go to Wal-Mart and see like white people who I would refer to as “less fortunate”. Not bums but definitely not Ivy League material.  I thought I was in Bizarro world. To see whites doing far worse then anyone I knew was an eye opener. And I was 18 when I found that out.

Just goes to show you, while still in your little box its is understandable to make dumb ass judgments because you aren’t exposed.

Just something to think about.

[drkaje]

HAHAH

Dr.Jake He tried to use the quotes to some way discredit your accomplishments..

Monster redneck...


in other news....It is hilarious how i can tell the level of exposure/education of an individual simply by the retarded comments they spew which are usually uninvestigated comments, simply passed down from other uneducated unexposed idiots.

This is a funny story about my own preconceived generalizations about white people.
I’m from Los Angeles California and I only saw well off, rich, successful white people. So I just thought that’s how all white people are. As you know, I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta GA (the south) and I got a totally different view of white people. Dude I would go to Wal-Mart and see like white people who I would refer to as “less fortunate”. Not bums but definitely not Ivy League material.  I thought I was in Bizarro world. To see whites doing far worse then anyone I knew was an eye opener. And I was 18 when I found that out.

Just goes to show you, while still in your little box its is understandable to make dumb ass judgments because you aren’t exposed.

Just something to think about.

Poverty affects whites on a larger scale than it does blacks, mainly because they're the majority.

Here's the funny thing I've noticed: People never, ever, ever........ ever discuss poverty in whites. Bring up black people and there are a gajillion reasons/ecxuses: absentee fathers, teen pregnancy, small brains, big dicks, inferior to whites, slavery, rap music, dancing too much, no family values, Al Sharpton, etc... LOL!

I almost dropped a "W" bomb, LOL!

[Option D]

Poverty affects whites on a larger scale than it does blacks, mainly because they're the majority.

Here's the funny thing I've noticed: People never, ever, ever........ ever discuss poverty in whites. Bring up black people and there are a gajillion reasons/ecxuses: absentee fathers, teen pregnancy, small brains, big dicks, inferior to whites, slavery, rap music, dancing too much, no family values, Al Sharpton, etc... LOL!

I almost dropped a "W" bomb, LOL!

hahahaahahaha....exactly ...Dude you know the reasons the poor whites are poor…DUH…. affirmative action and Mexicans are taking all their jobs…

HAHAHAHAHA monster contradictions…

[drkaje]

hahahaahahaha....exactly...Dude you know the reasons the poor whites are poor…DUH…. affirmative action and Mexicans are taking all their jobs…

HAHAHAHAHA monster contradictions…

You really have to wonder why people with every advantage don't succeed.

[Hedgehog]

You really have to wonder why people with every advantage don't succeed.

The same reason black people can't succeed.

It's the same reason the "white thrash" don't succeed.

It's the stigma of growing up in an environment, a culture of failure, of no intellectual challenge, where brawn is heralded more so than brains, where there is no tradition of higher learning, et al.

Having poor classes, whether they are black or white, is a gigantic economic waste for a nation like USA.

Imagine if we could get 25% of the people in these social groups to finish a higher education. Imagine what that would do to raise the Gross National Product. Not to mention the drop in crime rate, likely health improvement, dental improvement et al.

Instead of playing the blame game, black people, white people, and everyone, needs to address the situation.

Because everyone would be much better off if the poverty was erased and replaced by properly educated people.

Can it be done?

Is it time for a 21st century version of the New Deal, but this time with Higher Education at its focal point?

I think it's a grand idea at least. The vision of getting most of USA's youth into higher education in 10 years could completely change the situation, and be a big step away from the racial barriers that do exists today.

[Al-Gebra]

Is it time for a 21st century version of the New Deal, but this time with Higher Education at its focal point?

I think it's a grand idea at least. The vision of getting most of USA's youth into higher education in 10 years could completely change the situation, and be a big step away from the racial barriers that do exists today.

higher education should not be the focal point, but rather elementary or primary education.  Most people are already set in their ways by the time they get to higher education . . .  You've got to get them early if you want to make a real difference.

[Hedgehog]

higher education should not be the focal point, but rather elementary or primary education.  Most people are already set in their ways by the time they get to higher education . . .  You've got to get them early if you want to make a real difference.

Very true. I forgot that part I guess.

The goal should be to get all these kids through higher education, but to do that, various of reforms may be necessary to hit the problems correctly.

Arnold is spot on when he mentions how important it is for everyone to be 100% in English. How to get that?

Perhaps legislate to make English first language in USA, and also test every 6 year old for English competence, those who can't cut it, will have to take extra English classes?

Then repeat at 9 years old.

I don't know, tough problems sometimes calls for tough solutions.

And tons of other reforms to raise the bar, to give USA an elite work force.

Today, USA recruits workforce with high education from other countries. Shouldn't have to be that way.

[drkaje]

Zack,

A New, New Deal won't work. Much as folks complain about poverty and people collecting unenjoyment a certain amount is required to keep inflation down. Just like illegal immigrants who work for pennies/day. No american would think about working as hard as they do for no money and we really can't afford lettuce at $10/head.

[Camel Jockey]

Very true. I forgot that part I guess.

The goal should be to get all these kids through higher education, but to do that, various of reforms may be necessary to hit the problems correctly.

Arnold is spot on when he mentions how important it is for everyone to be 100% in English. How to get that?

Perhaps legislate to make English first language in USA, and also test every 6 year old for English competence, those who can't cut it, will have to take extra English classes?

hahaha, I wish it were like that..

But no, we're catering to Mexicans by having everything in spanish and having to press "1" for english. And you may think the United States has a universal literacy rate, but go to a black neighborhood, immigrant neighborhood and the percentage of people who can actually read and comprehend english is probably below 50%. For America as a whole it certainly isn't universal.

The only reforms that can help in the long run are to be put into place by blacks themselves. It starts at home.. They have to put more effort in trying to improve over playing the race card and whining.

Get rid of affirmative action and make everything merit based. Some people will be in so big of a hole that they'll have no choice but to change or rot at the bottom. You go to any NYC DMV office and the blacks working there are so rude.. Just horrible service, no formal manners. Makes you wonder how these people were employed there or are able to keep their jobs. It's because society allows them these mistakes, and maybe if society didn't, then they'd change or rot in hell.

[Camel Jockey]

Blacks kids that attend asian elementery schools in NYC score much higher on math and english tests.. Change of mind, attitude, culture.. 

If people are forced through adversity, then they can change.. I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why? Because little enclaves have formed which allow them to keep bad habbits(their inferior cultures).

[Hedgehog]

Blacks kids that attend asian elementery schools in NYC score much higher on math and english tests.. Change of mind, attitude, culture.. 

If people are forced through adversity, then they can change.. I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why? Because little enclaves have formed which allow them to keep bad habbits(their inferior cultures).

Integration or failure.

[Al Doggity]

Blacks kids that attend asian elementery schools in NYC score much higher on math and english tests.. Change of mind, attitude, culture.. 

Guess what? EVERY demographic does better in privatized schooling.

It has very little to do with "culture". There are several majority black and Hispanic Catholic high schools in Harlem and the Bronx that have college acceptance rates in the 80% bracket. I volunteered at a school in the Bronx called Cardinal Hayes a few years ago after I graduated. They have a college placement rate of 95%. That is well above the national average.


In one of Hedgehog's posts, he points out how America has to fill high skilled jobs with foreign labor. This is because the educational system here, as a whole, is fucked. Kids across the board are doing worse than ever. When black kids do poorly, it's an indictment on the "culture". When everyone else does poorly ,it's because the system is broken.

Bullshit.

[Al Doggity]

I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why?

The incoming immigrants are different now. There was a period where the Southeast asians that immigrated here were the part of  educated elite. Those days are done,and, unfortunately, a truer cross-section of those populations is going to emerge. The economic picture among them is going to look a lot more like Europe.

[Al-Gebra]

I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why? Because little enclaves have formed which allow them to keep bad habbits(their inferior cultures).

do you know the origin of the word "ghetto"? look it up . . .

[drkaje]

Integration or failure.

Resistance is futile.

[Al-Gebra]

Kids across the board are doing worse than ever. When black kids do poorly, it's an indictment on the "culture". When everyone else does poorly ,it's because the system is broken.

according to what study are kids across the board doing worse than ever?

[Al Doggity]

according to what study are kids across the board doing worse than ever?

Al-gebra, wouldn't you agree that I've generally been pretty thorough in regards to making my points in this thread? Usually providing multiple links to support my positions or, at the very least, using easily verifiable examples? I've avoided using anecdotal evidence to form broad, misinformed generalizations, right? Even if you don't agree with my conclusions, I've at least been honest with the info I've used to form them, right?


I post all of this to say, I have provided a lot of documentation in this thread. If it were another point, I might be inclined to dig up a study to support that statement, but...  I just don't feel like it. On the exceedingly rare occasions when I've been wrong, I've been man enough to admit it, but I've read several statistical accounts of America's declining educational system and I don't think that statement can be debated. If you are aware of something that contradicts my statement, feel free to post it and then we can hash it out.

Otherwise, I'm gonna have to say the option to believe that statement is yours. Believe it or not.  I haven't made a habit of pulling facts out of my ass.

[Al Doggity]

The "black man" is making a comeback!

When a coked-out Lindsay Lohan was arrested for rampaging through the streets of LA in a stolen car, she reportedly blamed the incident on a nearby "black kid."

When Florida Rep Bob Allen was recently arrested for prowling for cock, he claimed he only did so because there were so many intimidating black men around!?!

I'm currently searching google images for the appropriate "race card" forum pic.

[24KT]

HAHAH

Dr.Jake He tried to use the quotes to some way discredit your accomplishments..

Monster redneck...


in other news....It is hilarious how i can tell the level of exposure/education of an individual simply by the retarded comments they spew which are usually uninvestigated comments, simply passed down from other uneducated unexposed idiots.

This is a funny story about my own preconceived generalizations about white people.
I’m from Los Angeles California and I only saw well off, rich, successful white people. So I just thought that’s how all white people are. As you know, I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta GA (the south) and I got a totally different view of white people. Dude I would go to Wal-Mart and see like white people who I would refer to as “less fortunate”. Not bums but definitely not Ivy League material.  I thought I was in Bizarro world. To see whites doing far worse then anyone I knew was an eye opener. And I was 18 when I found that out.

Just goes to show you, while still in your little box its is understandable to make dumb ass judgments because you aren’t exposed.

Just something to think about.

Big_mal,

I have friends in similar situations as yours. They grew up in Europe, and the only exposure they had to Blacks, were rich African students who studied in Europe. They simply assumed all Blacks were rich. After moving to North America, they got a huge shock, ...they discovered that not ALL Blacks came from rich educated families. 

[24KT]

The same reason black people can't succeed.

It's the same reason the "white thrash" don't succeed.

It's the stigma of growing up in an environment, a culture of failure, of no intellectual challenge, where brawn is heralded more so than brains, where there is no tradition of higher learning, et al.

Having poor classes, whether they are black or white, is a gigantic economic waste for a nation like USA.

Imagine if we could get 25% of the people in these social groups to finish a higher education. Imagine what that would do to raise the Gross National Product. Not to mention the drop in crime rate, likely health improvement, dental improvement et al.

Instead of playing the blame game, black people, white people, and everyone, needs to address the situation.

Because everyone would be much better off if the poverty was erased and replaced by properly educated people.

Can it be done?

Is it time for a 21st century version of the New Deal, but this time with Higher Education at its focal point?

I think it's a grand idea at least. The vision of getting most of USA's youth into higher education in 10 years could completely change the situation, and be a big step away from the racial barriers that do exists today.

I find your choice of words interesting. When refering to low achieving Black people... you refer to them as Blacks.
When refering to low achieving White people... your refer to them as 'White trash'. Why the qualifyer?

Why not say "the reason Black trash doesn't..." along with "the reason white trash doesn't..."?
Why not say "the reason Black people don't..." along with "the reason white people don't..."?

I find it interesting that you can so easily compare the two. Why not compare apples with apples instead?

Making no accusations mind you, ...simply observing a subtle even if unintentioned connotation in your words.

[drkaje]

I find your choice of words interesting. When refering to low achieving Black people... you refer to them as Blacks.
When refering to low achieving White people... your refer to them as 'White trash'. Why the qualifyer?

Why not say "the reason Black trash doesn't..." along with "the reason white trash doesn't..."?
Why not say "the reason Black people don't..." along with "the reason white people don't..."?

I find it interesting that you can so easily compare the two. Why not compare apples with apples instead?

Making no accusations mind you, ...simply observing a subtle even if unintentioned connotation in your words.

It's not racism but a defense mechanism. The 'trash' connotation changes the degree to which middle class whites identify with lazy underperforming whites. Most wouldn't identify with blacks to any extent so the 'trash' qualifier isn't needed. It can also be used in a positive manner to identify with black people, e.g. "He's really bright!"

[Al-Gebra]

Al-gebra, wouldn't you agree that I've generally been pretty thorough in regards to making my points in this thread? Usually providing multiple links to support my positions or, at the very least, using easily verifiable examples? I've avoided using anecdotal evidence to form broad, misinformed generalizations, right? Even if you don't agree with my conclusions, I've at least been honest with the info I've used to form them, right?


I post all of this to say, I have provided a lot of documentation in this thread. If it were another point, I might be inclined to dig up a study to support that statement, but...  I just don't feel like it. On the exceedingly rare occasions when I've been wrong, I've been man enough to admit it, but I've read several statistical accounts of America's declining educational system and I don't think that statement can be debated. If you are aware of something that contradicts my statement, feel free to post it and then we can hash it out.

Otherwise, I'm gonna have to say the option to believe that statement is yours. Believe it or not.  I haven't made a habit of pulling facts out of my ass.

you may not make a habit of pulling facts out of your ass . . . but on this one you are wrong.

Ask any admissions counselor about what it takes to get into an elite college or university these days.  these kids are far more accomplished than their parents generation.

[Al-Gebra]

Big_mal,

I have friends in similar situations as yours. They grew up in Europe, and the only exposure they had to Blacks, were rich African students who studied in Europe. They simply assumed all Blacks were rich. After moving to North America, they got a huge shock, ...they discovered that not ALL Blacks came from rich educated families. 

 

[Camel Jockey]

you may not make a habit of pulling facts out of your ass . . . but on this one you are wrong.

Ask any admissions counselor about what it takes to get into an elite college or university these days.  these kids are far more accomplished than their parents generation.

Yeah, compare a highschool in Long Island with one in Queens.. A world of difference.

It's culture. Ghetto areas with freshly arrived immigrants and black folks will have shitty schools. But go to a decent neighborhood and the kids will generally know their math and writing.

I went to a NYC public highschool and also a highschool in the Tampa area in Florida. It's the stupid ghetto idiots that dragged down maybe 10 intelligent kids out of a class of 35(in nyc).

In Florida, it was nothing like NY. It all depends on the area.