Wo wo wo, I've not once mentioned ASC 2001 Ronnie. Talk about selective comparison. I was talking about my pic from 99 vs your pic from '93. 282lb studio b/w Dorian has quads which dwarf his own 269 best ever b/w quads, as well as his own 2005 Olympia quads, so that's a little suspect to say the least. Especially since it surfaces 10 years later, after the inception of photoshop.
Sorry, I don't like to knock Dorian's arms, but whereas any best arms poll will feature Ronnie, possible at the top, nowhere will you find Dorian. Dorian's tris did look good from one angle, and the side tri looked good cos he could press them against his massive lats. But in the front double bi Ronnie's inner tris were both massive and well shaped with trademark insane detail, so it's not black and white, like all the best Dorian pics are. His forarms are considered good by all but yourself. Plus Ronnie's arms are much much bigger at their best, much more detail, including in the triceps, and overall shape is no contest, they have enough flow to have a wow factor, Dorian's have relatively small and proportioned bis/tris with great forearms. His delts dwarf arms in back double bi, by no means classic balance.
Ronnie's conditioning in the glutes and hams is legendary in fact, and superior to Dorians. Your defense against this is I need to get out more? Hell we're all debating naked men, at least I'm aware the judges look to glutes as a mark of conditioning. Guys like Dexter, Gaspari, even Thorvilsen owe much of their repective levels of career success to this hard-to-attain attribute, and guys like Bob Chic (no disrespect) had a hard time sometimes because they didn't have them. Lee Priest got slated for not having them also, then he got them for the Australian Pro and won it. If you refute their importance (insanely gay as it sounds) you clearly haven't followed bodybuilding in the post-Gaspari era. You say Ronnie's quad size was a problem in later years because of a quad/ham disrepency? You condescent that I should bear this in mind because the judges do? What year were his quads biggest, maybe 2003? He got a perfect score. What do you really know about judging?
Dorian's quads are only behind Ronnie's in rectus femoris separation?! Hence they are behind, thank you. Given that they are also smaller, I wonder how you pretend they are better.
You say Ronnie's later wins were based on size and conditioning? I thought you knew what the judges like, and size isn't enough? And I thought his condition in later years was terrible? Dude won as many Os coasting on his condition as Dorian in his whole career. BTW judges decide who wins the O. Again your own opinions and what the judges actually reward are not the same thing. Also, Ronnie 99 did better from a judges-points perspective than Ronnie 98, earning his first perfect score of three.
What year is Yates at his best in your opinion btw? Because I don't think 282lb Dorian counts for anything. We don't know what he looks like from the back, and he looks suspect in the one existing shot from the front. Where's the rest of the shoot? Why didn't it surface during his career? Why does it look so airbrushed? And why isn't that shoot the talk of the bodybuilding world, surpassing '93 269lb as possibly the greatest BB pics ever? His quads never actually got bigger after he quit squats earlier in his career, yet here in a previously never seen pic they appear the fullest of his whole life, noticably bigger and rounder than '93? Give me a break.
Wo wo wo, I've not once mentioned ASC 2001 Ronnie. Talk about selective comparison. I was talking about my pic from 99 vs your pic from '93. 282lb studio b/w Dorian has quads which dwarf his own 269 best ever b/w quads, as well as his own 2005 Olympia quads, so that's a little suspect to say the least. Especially since it surfaces 10 years later, after the inception of photoshop.
I don't care if you mentioned 2001 I did. And oh the old conspiracy theory huh? Kevin Horton said the picture was scanned from the original negative , he also said it was from what he considered the best Dorian ever looked . If you think he's lying that's your opinion . he's never taken any side in the ' debate ' he's been objective and honest I don't doubt him .
Now back to the subject of quads 95 precontest vs Ronnie 99 Olympia I highly doubt Ronnie's quads are bigger I may be wrong but I doubt it , 2003 maybe but even then one can't determine that from photos alone
Sorry, I don't like to knock Dorian's arms, but whereas any best arms poll will feature Ronnie, possible at the top, nowhere will you find Dorian. Dorian's tris did look good from one angle, and the side tri looked good cos he could press them against his massive lats. But in the front double bi Ronnie's inner tris were both massive and well shaped with trademark insane detail, so it's not black and white, like all the best Dorian pics are. His forarms are considered good by all but yourself. Plus Ronnie's arms are much much bigger at their best, much more detail, including in the triceps, and overall shape is no contest, they have enough flow to have a wow factor, Dorian's have relatively small and proportioned bis/tris with great forearms. His delts dwarf arms in back double bi, by no means classic balance.
So polls now dictate who has a better pose? this means what in a contest? and I disagree Dorian's triceps look better is more than one pose. and you keep missing the point maybe on purpose but go back and read where I said Ronnie's forearms are GOOD and HUGE however they are NOT in proportion with his biceps/triceps and they insert high and are shaped like a bowling pin . And I'm sure Ronnie's arms are bigger than Dorians at his best and this means what exactly? he has a better pose? NOPE not how it works everything is judged as well as muscle balance & proportion within muscle groups as well !
And his delts dwarf his arms in the back double bicep? Ronnie's arms dwarf his delts recall he has a short torso and long massive arms in relation and you type ' classic balance ' pure ignorance on your behalf nothing classic about unproportionate forearms and overdeveloped arms , classic proportion see Bob Paris , Danny Padilla , Lee Labrada spare me the Ronnie Coleman has a ' classic balance ' not in his arms and delts , not in his short torso , and glutes that can be seen from the front or weak calves dwarfed by his over-sized quads , please go read up on the subject of classic physique proportions such as the Greek Ideal where the calves , neck and arms ALL measure the exact same size , NOT happening with Ronnie
Ronnie's conditioning in the glutes and hams is legendary in fact, and superior to Dorians. Your defense against this is I need to get out more? Hell we're all debating naked men, at least I'm aware the judges look to glutes as a mark of conditioning. Guys like Dexter, Gaspari, even Thorvilsen owe much of their repective levels of career success to this hard-to-attain attribute, and guys like Bob Chic (no disrespect) had a hard time sometimes because they didn't have them. Lee Priest got slated for not having them also, then he got them for the Australian Pro and won it. If you refute their importance (insanely gay as it sounds) you clearly haven't followed bodybuilding in the post-Gaspari era. You say Ronnie's quad size was a problem in later years because of a quad/ham disrepency? You condescent that I should bear this in mind because the judges do? What year were his quads biggest, maybe 2003? He got a perfect score. What do you really know about judging?
Again you make a claim and offer up absolutely NO proof or explanation what so ever and we're supposed to just take you for your word on it? surely you jest? you're claiming his is superior because they have more lines? are you kidding me? Dorian has striated glutes it's not like he's Flex Wheeler and it's 1998 and that's what separated a contest and if you want to get technical Dorian's glutes are in proportion with the rest of his physique , Ronnies can be seen from the front !! classic balance huh? and hamstrings ? I dare you to explain how Ronnie's are better go look up leg biceps and tell me what muscle Ronnie has developed that Dorian does not , Dorian's hams are awesome ( see attached pics ) and proportion yes in profile Ronnie's quads dominate his hams when his quads were over sized not so much when he's lighter once again so much for classic balance
And your analogy about 2003 is weak and why? was he competing against Dorian Yates? NO he scored perfect scores against Jay & Dex , and to use your logic against you biceps/triceps and quads ALL mean nothing because Dorian scored a perfect score in 1997 against Ronnie I might add
what do I know really know about judging? A LOT more than you since I'm explaining how contests are judged to you NOT vice-versa
Dorian's quads are only behind Ronnie's in rectus femoris separation?! Hence they are behind, thank you. Given that they are also smaller, I wonder how you pretend they are better.
Ah forget about the rest of the quad muscles? ever hear of the sartorius muscle? forget that Dorian's is much more developed and prominent ? you're cherry picking again NOT how it works
I can't express this to you enough , and once again you're assuming they're smaller at 282 pounds I doubt they are but perhaps they are but this means what? Ronnie has bigger better quads? AND?
this means what in terms of balance & proportion ? he has oustanding quads that only serve to highlight his pathetic calves NO ADVANTAGE sorry not in the judges eyes .
You must think like a judge NOT like a fan you must know what the judges look for when you think .
You say Ronnie's later wins were based on size and conditioning? I thought you knew what the judges like, and size isn't enough? And I thought his condition in later years was terrible? Dude won as many Os coasting on his condition as Dorian in his whole career. BTW judges decide who wins the O. Again your own opinions and what the judges actually reward are not the same thing. Also, Ronnie 99 did better from a judges-points perspective than Ronnie 98, earning his first perfect score of three.
Size isn't enough if that were the case Greg Kovacs would be a multiple Mr Olympia and so would Art Atwood NEED more than that ironically neither of them had great conditioning and it's all relative to who you're competing with , Ronnie never faced anyone who could match him size for size with good enough conditioning until Jay Cutler and look what happened then. And Ronnie's conditioning in the later years was terrible COMPARED to Ronnie lighter absolutely ( and Dorian )
And Ronnie got a perfect score in 1999 so that means he was better? more weak logic Dorian got perfect scores in 93 and 97 so that means these showings were equal?
it's all contingent on who you're competing against Ronnie 99 improved size wise while maintaining good conditioning NOT perfect like 98 but Flex was off from 98 so hence the perfect scores , Flex was a little better in 98 hence a closer call
So using your logic Dorian won almost all of his Olympia wins with a perfect score so he's more what the judges are looking for hence he would beat Ronnie?
What year is Yates at his best in your opinion btw? Because I don't think 282lb Dorian counts for anything. We don't know what he looks like from the back, and he looks suspect in the one existing shot from the front. Where's the rest of the shoot? Why didn't it surface during his career? Why does it look so airbrushed? And why isn't that shoot the talk of the bodybuilding world, surpassing '93 269lb as possibly the greatest BB pics ever? His quads never actually got bigger after he quit squats earlier in his career, yet here in a previously never seen pic they appear the fullest of his whole life, noticably bigger and rounder than '93? Give me a break.
Depends if I seen a whole series from the pre-contest of Yates at 282 pounds I would probably go with that , but I personally think he looks best at 269 pounds pre-contest 1993 his shape is better than his contest showings and he has no torn muscles and NO flaws even his biceps are huge . but we're back to believing the pic is fake , I doubt it highly Kevin said it was untouched and scanned from the original and these like the other shots were NEVER intended for publication just for Dorian's personal use , who knows why others haven't been posted PM Kevin and ask him . and Dorian quads did lose a lot of size the lighter he became ( see pics of his legs from Blood & guts MASSIVE quads ) much like his arms
Yates hams and quads
