MATT C CONSIDERS THE 911 HIJACKERS "WAR HEROS"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tu_holmes]

i believe you and canada tried that little war 200 years ago.

and the americans got their asses handed to them.

typical american, always bragging about military power, not caring they are the most hated nation in the world.

bottom line in all this debate is that if the US gov't had not spent the better part of half a century going around the globe, bullying weaker nations for their own monetary/ political gain, you wouldn't be worried about having some aggitated muslim wanting to blow your asses back into the middle ages.

you are now reaping what you sow.

it's just a shame innocent lives are being lost over it.

but blame no one but your own establishment.

Haha... 200 years ago? Good one.

I'm not spouting the American military machine in a general sense, but MattC brought up the idea of the Canadian Military and it's power... Not I.

I personally would LOVE the US to go back to being an isolationist country and say fuck all to the rest of the world... Make things here... Buy them here... Let the rest of the world do without the economic wealth that the US provides.

I have NO desire to flex military might unless it's on my home soil.

Do not talk about what you do not know about.

[OzmO]

Didn't Osama declare war on us before 9/11?  It was either a few months or a year or so...anyone recall?  he wrote some crazy ass document.  now, i dont know if you can be at war if someone declares it but you dont accept.

So by virtue of an "individual" declaring war on a country it makes murdering 3000 innocent people legitimate?  So any individual can obtain this status by simply declaring war? 

A Government declaring war and person declaring war are not the same.

[OzmO]

He just said they were heros from the povs of their people, just as our troops are from our pov.
 

Anyone who would call killing 3000 innocent people by a cowardly sneak attack heroes are fucking religious nut jobs who need to be brought out of the stone ages. These are simple minded hateful infighting scum.  Yes from their POV's they are heroes, but their POV's is the same one that wanted to kill a 2nd grade teacher for the teddy thing, the same POV that execute a preteen girl from walking home with another boy unaccompanied, of that's after the village elders all raped her, the backward barbaric culture that represses women, kills their daughters for not wearing a head dress etc...  yeah some POV...

Our troops are doing immoral deeds to better our lives, just as the terrorists thought they were doing something to better the lives of their people.

And exactly how has 9/11 bettered the lives of their people?

Do they still have a haven in Afghanistan like before?

Are the average middle easterners more fear or less fearful the USA since 9/11?

9/11 did not help their cause.

MattC said nothing wrong, so get off his back. You can't stand any sort of criticism, and belittle people when you can't find decent counter arguements. You keep calling him names, yet can't counter any of his valid points.

I don't know about everyone else, but address my points above.

The point he makes is a very simple one. The US invaded Iraq for oil, and in the process fucked that country up. Simple as that. Any one in touch with humanity ought to feel for what's happened there and what's going to happen there; regardless of their political alligence.

No, I think the idiot BUSh actually believed he was doing the right thing, and in turn everyone who could take advantage fo that opportunity, including oil companies, took it.

[Camel Jockey]

Anyone who would call killing 3000 innocent people by a cowardly sneak attack heroes are fucking religious nut jobs who need to be brought out of the stone ages. These are simple minded hateful infighting scum.  Yes from their POV's they are heroes, but their POV's is the same one that wanted to kill a 2nd grade teacher for the teddy thing, the same POV that execute a preteen girl from walking home with another boy unaccompanied, of that's after the village elders all raped her, the backward barbaric culture that represses women, kills their daughters for not wearing a head dress etc...  yeah some POV...

And exactly how has 9/11 bettered the lives of their people?

Do they still have a haven in Afghanistan like before?

Are the average middle easterners more fear or less fearful the USA since 9/11?

9/11 did not help their cause.

I don't know about everyone else, but address my points above.

They thought it would and that's what made them do it. It's the same thing that makes an ignorant kid watch CNN and go and enlist. It's all about what they think.

Of course they're savages to any sane person...  My point is that they're war heros to the people who support them and their mad cause. I don't care for them, nor am I defending them, just saying what they are to their beloved and twisted cause.

[Camel Jockey]

Do they still have a haven in Afghanistan like before?

Are the average middle easterners more fear or less fearful the USA since 9/11?

9/11 did not help their cause.

They have havens all over now.. Including the US and Europe. I think we should ban mosques.

9/11 made their cause stronger. It showed how 18 people could cause so much hurt and panic to the world's strongest nation. As you know, Iraq followed, and it was like a strengthening solution to the terrorists due to the WMD stuff being proven to be a bunch of shit.

[Fury]

Ozmo is the only voice of reason in this thread. Camel "I'm a future suicide bomber" Jockey seems to like talking out of his ass. Not surprising considering his mouth is firmly attached to Nasser's sphincter. Inhaling all that methane must be going to his head.

[OzmO]

They have havens all over now.. Including the US and Europe. I think we should ban mosques.

9/11 made their cause stronger. It showed how 18 people could cause so much hurt and panic to the world's strongest nation. As you know, Iraq followed, and it was like a strengthening solution to the terrorists due to the WMD stuff being proven to be a bunch of shit.

They didn't have havens before?  They had all of Afghanistan, they had money that wasn't frozen, they didn't have other governments looking for them like they are now, they did have Western public opinion as much against them as they are now, their  network was dealt a strong blow, they have American Special Ops running missions on them all over the place...........

[no one]

So by virtue of an "individual" declaring war on a country it makes murdering 3000 innocent people legitimate?  So any individual can obtain this status by simply declaring war? 

A Government declaring war and person declaring war are not the same.

innocent?

the people who died were innocent, but your government is not.

[OzmO]

innocent?

the people who died were innocent, but your government is not.

That's kind of a stupid thing to say.

What government is totally innocent?   

3000 innocent people died.  They are no different than innocent Palestinians, Israelis, Somali's, Russians, etc...

It doesn't matter what caused it.  The cause was unjustified.

So before you go whining about America being hated and our foreign policy being what it is, remember we are still talking about 3000 people who lost their lives becuase of cowardly religious nut job murderers.  That's where the blame goes.  Not the US government. 

That's like your daughter dressing very sexy, and someone raping her and then telling her her it was a shame she was raped and then blaming the way she chose to dress as the reason she was raped. and then telling her she reaps what she sows and then telling you that you have no one to blame but yourself

Sound familiar dumbass?

you are now reaping what you sow.

it's just a shame innocent lives are being lost over it.

but blame no one but your own establishment.

That's morally pathetic to think that.

If those cowards were worth anything other than the low scum they are they would have attacked a military installation.

[no one]

That's kind of a stupid thing to say.

What government is totally innocent?   

3000 innocent people died.  They are no different than innocent Palestinians, Israelis, Somali's, Russians, etc...

It doesn't matter what caused it.  The cause was unjustified.

So before you go whining about America being hated and our foreign policy being what it is, remember we are still talking about 3000 people who lost their lives becuase of cowardly religious nut job murderers.  That's where the blame goes.  Not the US government. 

That's like your daughter dressing very sexy, and someone raping her and then telling her her it was a shame she was raped and then blaming the way she chose to dress as the reason she was raped. and then telling her she reaps what she sows and then telling you that you have no one to blame but yourself

Sound familiar dumbass?

That's morally pathetic to think that.

If those cowards were worth anything other than the low scum they are they would have attacked a military installation.

no, it's only morally pathetic to think that because you cannot pull your head out of your jingoistic ass and see the facts for what they are.

only bombed military installations huh?

tell the thousands of japanese who lost their lives at hiroshima/nagaskai that, dumbass.

lol. simpleton. dont even bother starting your name calling bullshit with me just because your losing your grip on the reality of the situation your government has created for itself globally and you cannot use intelligence to defend your counter-point and have to resort to name-calling.

your country is the biggest bully in the playground, and they finally picked a fight with someone who doesnt fight by the rules, and now wants to cry about it. oh well. suck it up now, cowboy.

you as a person, should be embarrassed to even begin to defend your governments actions, no matter how stupidly and blindingly patriotic you think you are being.

[Matt C]

That's like your daughter dressing very sexy, and someone raping her and then telling her her it was a shame she was raped and then blaming the way she chose to dress as the reason she was raped. and then telling her she reaps what she sows and then telling you that you have no one to blame but yourself

I don't see how this example applies.  In this case the girl in question is completely innocent.  How is the USA's interventionist foreign policy not guilt on the USA's part for causing the 9.11 attacks?

[OzmO]

no, it's only morally pathetic to think that because you cannot pull your head out of your jingoistic ass and see the facts for what they are.

Seems like i touched a nerve 

Facts for what they are?  I see 3000 dead people who died innocently by the hand of cowards.

What do you see?  You see blaming the cause and not the executors of those deaths.   That's what's pathetic about you.

only bombed military installations huh?

tell the thousands of japanese who lost their lives at hiroshima/nagaskai that, dumbass.

i agree.  Those were seemingly senseless deaths and a very hard decision for those who made it. 

But there are some differences between that and 9/11 if you weren't so  mentally challenged you may be able to comprehend them.

-  We were at war with Japan for almost 5 years.
-  Invading the mainland would have caused far more death on both sides
-  The Japanese were very loyal to their empoer and were prepare to fight to the death
-  Kamakisi strikes were increasing at an alarming rate
-  Russia was positioned continue the war

I agree, in the end.  It was awful and easy to second guess it.  But in some sense i really do believe it saved lives.  Unfortunately at the cost of those in those cities.  But i bet you don't even know more died in ONE Tokyo fire bombings prior to the a-bombs and still, Japan was unwilling to surrender.

And i'm not some fcuking idiot who runs around saying:

you are now reaping what you sow.

it's just a shame innocent lives are being lost over it.

but blame no one but your own establishment.

You are truly a low class piece of shit to say that.

lol. simpleton. dont even bother starting your name calling bullshit with me just because your losing your grip on the reality of the situation your government has created for itself globally and you cannot use intelligence to defend your counter-point and have to resort to name-calling.

Just so you know, i have no problem name calling you now as you have just proved yourself more of what of what i inferred you to be , becuase of your monumentally stupid assertion above  i felt calling you "dumb-ass" was very understated.

your country is the biggest bully in the playground, and they finally picked a fight with someone who doesnt fight by the rules, and now wants to cry about it. oh well. suck it up now, cowboy.

Yeah, well, maybe so skippy, by I'm fine in my land and by the looks of it, everyone else is to.  And the bottom line is, even thogh i am very much against the iraq war form the start, we have the oil and we have the power.  So fcuking deal with it, free loader.

you as a person, should be embarrassed to even begin to defend your governments actions, no matter how stupidly and blindingly patriotic you think you are being.

If you knew how to read you'd realize i'm not.  But then again you are the idiot who thinks your daughter is to blame to being raped and not the raper.

You are a moron. 


I have no illusions about the transgressions of the USA in the world.  If anything I'm left leaning moderate who is very critical of US foreign policy especially since 9/11.  However, i am not so touch with reality that i would blame the US government for what 19 nut jobs did. 

We all have the ability to chose our actions.  Those 19 nutjobs chose to kill innocent in response to the USA.  the USA did not force them to do it.

Get over it ass hole.

[OzmO]

I don't see how this example applies.  In this case the girl in question is completely innocent.  How is the USA's interventionist foreign policy not guilt on the USA's part for causing the 9.11 attacks?

Simple:

We all have the power to choose our actions

The USA is responsible for it's actions with-in the realm of how it contributed to the motivation for those 19 hijackers.  but they are not responsible or to blame for the action itself. 

That action was a choice made by 19 fanatics.

To say the USA is responsible is like saying:

If you don't do "x" then i'll kill innocnet people and it will be your fault.   

that's classic criminal mentality.

[240 is Back]

how did those 19 guys bring down World Trade building #7?

How did they (after being dead 8 hours) wire the burning building with explosives, tell everyone to get back, run a 20-second countdown to demolition, then collect 500 mil in insurance money on that building, saying that it fell from fire damage?

I'll accept everything you say about the official story - but - somebody wired WTC7, got all the people back, did a countdown, and collected $.  And, at least one employee of that building died.  THose 19 guys didn't bring down WTC7.  Who did?

[Havenbull]

how did those 19 guys bring down World Trade building #7?

How did they (after being dead 8 hours) wire the burning building with explosives, tell everyone to get back, run a 20-second countdown to demolition, then collect 500 mil in insurance money on that building, saying that it fell from fire damage?

I'll accept everything you say about the official story - but - somebody wired WTC7, got all the people back, did a countdown, and collected $.  And, at least one employee of that building died.  THose 19 guys didn't bring down WTC7.  Who did?

 

evidence please

[tu_holmes]

how did those 19 guys bring down World Trade building #7?

How did they (after being dead 8 hours) wire the burning building with explosives, tell everyone to get back, run a 20-second countdown to demolition, then collect 500 mil in insurance money on that building, saying that it fell from fire damage?

I'll accept everything you say about the official story - but - somebody wired WTC7, got all the people back, did a countdown, and collected $.  And, at least one employee of that building died.  THose 19 guys didn't bring down WTC7.  Who did?

I'm not getting into the whole debate about any of the bombers or anything... Who did what... whatever.

The reality is that we ARE in Iraq, and we're not going anywhere... The soldiers over there are doing their jobs and being heroes and that's all that matters to me.

As long as they are stuck there... I've got their back.

Anyone who says anything about a soldier can go fuck themselves.

[Matt C]

Anyone who says anything about a soldier can go fuck themselves.

So essentially anyone who thinks about the issue critically rather than believing the official story is an idiot I guess?

[240 is Back]

evidence please

Go to youtube, type in WTC7.

You can watch dozens of video clips from 911.  In the minutes before 911, you hear numerous firefighters ordering people back, saying they were bringing the building down.  Numerous NYPD and FDNY personnel admit it.  Hell, our very own neocon kh300, a former nypd cop, admits there was a 20 second countdown.  Look at it fall - classic demolition.  CNN and BBC reported it had collapsed 53 MINUTES before it did.  Those clips are on there too.

WTC7 is the smoking gun that someone other than those 19 guys were involved.  No one is arguing that 19 assholes did some fvcked up shit and should burn in hell for it.  BUT - someone wired a building with explosives - either before 911, or ON 911 as it burned (which is impossible - carrying TNT into a fire? nah).  

WTC7 is why so many people doubt the official story.

[240 is Back]

I'm not getting into the whole debate about any of the bombers or anything... Who did what... whatever.

For the first time in history, a 47 story skyscraper convert itself from standing, into 20 feet of molten steel and many tons of 100 mc concrete powder, in under 7 seconds.

Yeah, that's kinda important.  No plane hit this building.  Two fires in it.  And this building disintegrated in 7 seconds.

Best part is - the 911 commission never mentions WTC 7.  Not once.  Many govt offices in there, including SEC, Secret services, fbi, etc.  Someone wired their building.  Under their noses?   It makes zero sense.  And since there is no official story that even says fire caused it, what are we supposed to think?  They promised the final findigns 3 years ago.  Still nothing.  It's been cancelled.  Why?

[no one]

Seems like i touched a nerve 

Facts for what they are?  I see 3000 dead people who died innocently by the hand of cowards.

What do you see?  You see blaming the cause and not the executors of those deaths.   That's what's pathetic about you.

i agree.  Those were seemingly senseless deaths and a very hard decision for those who made it. 

But there are some differences between that and 9/11 if you weren't so  mentally challenged you may be able to comprehend them.

-  We were at war with Japan for almost 5 years.
-  Invading the mainland would have caused far more death on both sides
-  The Japanese were very loyal to their empoer and were prepare to fight to the death
-  Kamakisi strikes were increasing at an alarming rate
-  Russia was positioned continue the war

I agree, in the end.  It was awful and easy to second guess it.  But in some sense i really do believe it saved lives.  Unfortunately at the cost of those in those cities.  But i bet you don't even know more died in ONE Tokyo fire bombings prior to the a-bombs and still, Japan was unwilling to surrender.

And i'm not some fcuking idiot who runs around saying:

You are truly a low class piece of shit to say that.

Just so you know, i have no problem name calling you now as you have just proved yourself more of what of what i inferred you to be , becuase of your monumentally stupid assertion above  i felt calling you "dumb-ass" was very understated.

Yeah, well, maybe so skippy, by I'm fine in my land and by the looks of it, everyone else is to.  And the bottom line is, even thogh i am very much against the iraq war form the start, we have the oil and we have the power.  So fcuking deal with it, free loader.

If you knew how to read you'd realize i'm not.  But then again you are the idiot who thinks your daughter is to blame to being raped and not the raper.

You are a moron. 


I have no illusions about the transgressions of the USA in the world.  If anything I'm left leaning moderate who is very critical of US foreign policy especially since 9/11.  However, i am not so touch with reality that i would blame the US government for what 19 nut jobs did. 

We all have the ability to chose our actions.  Those 19 nutjobs chose to kill innocent in response to the USA.  the USA did not force them to do it.

Get over it ass hole.

lol.

you couldn't touch a nerve on me to save your life. i know an imbicile when i hear one. your idiocy only comes second to the fact that you know nothing of global politics- and you're a moderator here? lol.

no matter how it shapes up cupcake, im right. you're wrong. live with it.

afterall, you'll be the one living in fear the rest of your pathetic life, wondering when the next attack will come, afraid to travel abroad or even get on a plane without apprehension inside of your own borders.

keep toeing the line. your country is using you as pawns and a disposable resource, and you are too stupid and blind to see it.

sleep tight, asshole.

lol.

(edit: just for you, stud: 

you are now reaping what you sow.

it's just a shame innocent lives are being lost over it.

but blame no one but your own establishment.)

[kh300]

Go to youtube, type in WTC7.

You can watch dozens of video clips from 911.  In the minutes before 911, you hear numerous firefighters ordering people back, saying they were bringing the building down.  Numerous NYPD and FDNY personnel admit it.  Hell, our very own neocon kh300, a former nypd cop, admits there was a 20 second countdown.  Look at it fall - classic demolition.  CNN and BBC reported it had collapsed 53 MINUTES before it did.  Those clips are on there too.

WTC7 is the smoking gun that someone other than those 19 guys were involved.  No one is arguing that 19 assholes did some fvcked up shit and should burn in hell for it.  BUT - someone wired a building with explosives - either before 911, or ON 911 as it burned (which is impossible - carrying TNT into a fire? nah).  

WTC7 is why so many people doubt the official story.

haha, please find the post were i said that.. by the way, shut the fuck up. your like a broken record, the same shit over and over

[240 is Back]

haha, please find the post were i said that.. by the way, shut the fuck up. your like a broken record, the same shit over and over

ah, chill out kh300.  I haven't been squaking the 911 stuff in months.  it came up and I interjected FACT.  There is no official govt story on what happened to building #7.  Nobody knows what happened.  That's odd. 

you're a cop.  Biggest crime in history and you don't even ask why a building disintegrates? Come on, nobody is that stupid.

[no one]

For the first time in history, a 47 story skyscraper convert itself from standing, into 20 feet of molten steel and many tons of 100 mc concrete powder, in under 7 seconds.

Yeah, that's kinda important.  No plane hit this building.  Two fires in it.  And this building disintegrated in 7 seconds.

Best part is - the 911 commission never mentions WTC 7.  Not once.  Many govt offices in there, including SEC, Secret services, fbi, etc.  Someone wired their building.  Under their noses?   It makes zero sense.  And since there is no official story that even says fire caused it, what are we supposed to think?  They promised the final findigns 3 years ago.  Still nothing.  It's been cancelled.  Why?

you are right.

the sad part is many americans refuse to look at the evidence objectively, refusing to accept the very real possibility that not only that their own government may have had knowledge of the attack before it happened, but may have engineered the entire thing themselves in order to have every fundamental freedom you enjoy guaranteed by your constitution suspended under the Patriot act, among other reasons.

it's too much to accept for these back-woods hillbillies (see: ozmo) that their own beloved country may have sacrificed the lives of 3000 innocent people to further their own agendas globally.

it is people like you, who refuse to blindly believe the lies their government tells them and question that the rest of the world would respect, if your voice of reason was not drowned out so readily by those who would live and die by what they hear on the american news agencies.

[240 is Back]

i am not ready to blame anyone.

the nuts are the ones who think they know who did it.  they obviously do not.

i would like to see a complete investigation.  a lot of scientists, law enforcement, engineers, and others have come fwd with input on this building falling.  Doesn't america WANT to know what happened there? 

Just investigate it.  THe first investigation never touched WTC7.   So there is nothing wrong with looking into it.  everytime a CTer points at someone and blames them, it trivializes their position and makes them look silly.  They sure don't know.  But since there is no official report, why not simply investigate a skyscraper collapse?

[no one]

I'm not getting into the whole debate about any of the bombers or anything... Who did what... whatever.

The reality is that we ARE in Iraq, and we're not going anywhere... The soldiers over there are doing their jobs and being heroes and that's all that matters to me.

As long as they are stuck there... I've got their back.

Anyone who says anything about a soldier can go fuck themselves.

now, this post i can agree with you 100% with.

it gives me hope for you yet.