Obama’s Spiritual Adviser Questioned U.S. Role in Spread of HIV, Sept. 11 Attack

[240 is Back]

From the late Pastor Kennedy(RIP)...."If you vote Democrat, you are going to be condemned to hell". 

coach made a post that was very similar to that, a few months back.

Please explain.......it's my belief that Liberals cannot be true Christians, make it quick, I have a feeling this thread will be moved real quick with your post and my response!

[Straw Man]

It's statements like the two above that make me think this religion either drives people to mental illness or attracts those people who already are.

[youandme]

This conclusion is consistent with the Blowback theory offered by members of the CIA.

LMAO, Blowback theory members of the CIA. You mean one retired member of the CIA, who coined a term to be used in describing past deeds gone array. Chalmers Johnson, not much of a author or war hero so his coined term is shit stained.

[Dos Equis]

I see your point.  But in matters of faith and salvation as i understand them and have been through them, they are apples and oranges.  This is just a man's opinion be it extreme and not too much different from what i've heard other people say that i've come in contact with at one time or another.  Bottom line, a true Christian only needs the bible for the ultimate authority on guidance.   He fellowships at this church and sits in sermons.  This reverend or pastor or w/e gets on the pulpit and expresses his views.   They talk, and i'm sure Obama wouldn't have gotten as far as he has in politics if he shared the same views.   

Spiritual advisor is about your relationship with God, not politics, and i'm sure Obama or McCain would know the difference.

I hear you.  I'm not really concerned about what type of advisor he is.  It's the kind of judgment exercised by both men.  The issue (for me) becomes if Obama is willing to have someone with views like this in his hear on spiritual matters, what other kinds of advisors will he surround himself with?  And in what other instances will he exercise poor judgment?   

I like the fact he fired the guy, but he only did so after being outed.  He is showing himself to be quite the politician, as others have noted:

Ari Fleischer, former press secretary for President Bush, suggested that the controversy and the timing of Obama’s disavowal show him to be little more than a shrewd politician.

“I think there’s a reason Republicans I talk to are increasingly looking forward to running against Barack Obama,” Fleischer said.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/15/fallout-from-pastors-sermons-unknown-as-obama-attempts-damage-control/

[OzmO]

I hear you.  I'm not really concerned about what type of advisor he is.  It's the kind of judgment exercised by both men.  The issue (for me) becomes if Obama is willing to have someone with views like this in his hear on spiritual matters, what other kinds of advisors will he surround himself with?  And in what other instances will he exercise poor judgment?   

I like the fact he fired the guy, but he only did so after being outed.  He is showing himself to be quite the politician, as others have noted:

Ari Fleischer, former press secretary for President Bush, suggested that the controversy and the timing of Obama’s disavowal show him to be little more than a shrewd politician.

“I think there’s a reason Republicans I talk to are increasingly looking forward to running against Barack Obama,” Fleischer said.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/15/fallout-from-pastors-sermons-unknown-as-obama-attempts-damage-control/

Yea,  no kidding, 4 years ago they offered up Kerry, now, in an election they that should be a landslide, they offer up Obama or Hilary a conflict with-in a party to could fragment it come November.  And really the republicans aren't doing much better with McCain but at least they "settled" on him.

Geez, if was a little less skeptical i'd think there was a conspiracy here.

[240 is Back]

Yea,  no kidding, 4 years ago they offered up Kerry, now, in an election they that should be a landslide, they offer up Obama or Hilary a conflict with-in a party to could fragment it come November.  And really the republicans aren't doing much better with McCain but at least they "settled" on him.

Geez, if was a little less skeptical i'd think there was a conspiracy here.

I think obama isn't that bad of a candidate.  He's not strongly experienced, but he is a leader and he makes good decisions.  The WORST people can find out about him is that his priest has wild opinions, and once he accepted campaign donations from a bad guy, renzo.

compare that to mccain.  been involved in scandals, and not exactly the model hubby.

plus for all his age/experience/wisdom, mccain appears to be an angry man, and always eager to verbally misstep.  if you dont have ability to only speak wisely at 71, you'll never have it.  "bomb iran" and "100 more years of war" were bad things to say - war isn't funny. 

[OzmO]

I think obama isn't that bad of a candidate.  He's not strongly experienced, but he is a leader and he makes good decisions.  The WORST people can find out about him is that his priest has wild opinions, and once he accepted campaign donations from a bad guy, renzo.

compare that to mccain.  been involved in scandals, and not exactly the model hubby.

plus for all his age/experience/wisdom, mccain appears to be an angry man, and always eager to verbally misstep.  if you dont have ability to only speak wisely at 71, you'll never have it.  "bomb iran" and "100 more years of war" were bad things to say - war isn't funny. 

I donno, rob.  There's a difference between the scrutiny a d candidate goes in a primary versus a presidential race.

[240 is Back]

I donno, rob.  There's a difference between the scrutiny a d candidate goes in a primary versus a presidential race.

perhaps... but 2 things to remember... by the time the convention drama is over and nominee Obama announces his running mate, there will only be 9 weeks until the Nov election.  That gives Rove and team 9 weeks to do what a very talented clinton team couldn't do in 18 month - put a single scratch on this guy.  And there comes a point - if Rush and Rove and others deliver a daily barrage of attacks, that the average swing voter will just be TIRED of the negative shit and it'll lose impact.  Plus, Rove stains mccain with the bush stink, no doubt about that.  Going public as his adviser makes it official that mccain - bush term 3.

The other thing is that if the economy slide continues, it won't matter if Obama promises to piss on your doorstep.  As long as he's anti-Bush plan, and mccain is pro-bush economic plan, the election should be a cakewalk.

[Straw Man]

It's all about judgment.  If someone makes truly bizarre statements, particularly in public, and has irrational views, that calls into question all of the advice they might give. 

BB,

you do this on almost a daily basis

 

[Dos Equis]

Yea,  no kidding, 4 years ago they offered up Kerry, now, in an election they that should be a landslide, they offer up Obama or Hilary a conflict with-in a party to could fragment it come November.  And really the republicans aren't doing much better with McCain but at least they "settled" on him.

Geez, if was a little less skeptical i'd think there was a conspiracy here.

That has been their history since Carter.  Maybe it's the vast ringwing conspiracy?   

I think Obama will have trouble when it becomes a two horse race.  He's going to have problems running to the center like Democrat nominees have to do in order to win the general.  He's too far to the left.  His lack of experience with military matters will hurt too, particularly when we are fighting in two countries.   

McCain's experience gives him a decided advantage IMO. 

[Dos Equis]

Here are what one of my favorite liberals and one of my favorite conservatives have to say:

“This is a man who he chose to be associated with. It’s not a family member. He chose to be associated with Reverend Wright and saw advantage in it. And that’s why he exploited it up to a point when he realized, especially when he was announcing, that he couldn’t have Wright by his side for the announcement in Springfield and now seeks to somehow distance himself. But it speaks to his character, and it speaks to the judgment which is the basis on which Barack Obama has been running his campaign. So I think it could be a big problem,” said National Public Radio national correspondent and FOX News contributor Juan Williams.

It also could suggest an insincerity by Obama, said conservative syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer.

“This, I think, is a huge story because it contradicts the whole persona and appeal of Obama as a man who transcends race,” Krauthammer said. “I think it ought to be explored a lot more deeply.”

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/16/pastor-creates-guilt-by-association-problem-for-obama/

[youandme]

At one December service, Wright argued Clinton's road to the White House is easier than Obama's because of her skin color.

"Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single-parent home; Barack was," Wright says in a video of the sermon posted on YouTube. "Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary! Hillary ain't never been called a 'black!' Hillary has never had her people defined as a non-person."


I thought Obama was running a campaign on Change not Color 

[headhuntersix]

They tried to link Mccain with some guy who made some anti-catholic or anti islamic statements. He is considered Mccains spiritual advisor. I'm not sure if its a tokern kind of thing but this guy is in Ohio and not somebody that Mccain went to every sunday over 20 years. He's from the World harvest church. If this is the same place, then I lived 5 miles from this place. Its massive. The stuff they had on Fox didn't sound even remotely bad. In any event this is an Obama issue and he's done very little to distance himself. i don't even know what u can do. He went over 20 years, and this guy baptized his kids.

[Decker]

....your going to sit there and tell me he had no idea of what his "pastor" believed? Alot of what he said was right after 9/11.........Obama and his wife fully where this man stood.

No I'm not.  You're making that argument for me.  I'm saying that controversial statements by religious figures are fairly standard. 

As long as the candidate does not make those controversial statements him/herself, I don't see the problem. 

And I do agree with you that I think I would fall out of my chair if I saw actual issues discussed in the national media instead of this crap.

[shootfighter1]

Nice to see obama has distanced himself from the pastor...but as stated above, he did it for political reasons during an election.

Obama has talked about the great importance of his church & his pastor prior to the recent news.  He chose this pastor and church out of hundreds in the Chicago area and has been involved for nearly 20 yrs.  Any reasonably intelligent person can see this pastor is frantic with political and racial motivation (not to mention insighting mob mentality and ignorance).  The other troubling part is that the church attendees were cheering and clapping to these ridiculous rants.  Thats scary (many churches have scary sermons and ignorant quotes by pastors but we are concentrating on this one at the moment).  Those are not isolated incidents in the church, don't be niave.  Obama is a very smart individual, he knows exactly what kind of church this is, what kind pastor lead the church and what kind of support he received from them.  I think it provides more insight into he and Michelle Obama's true beliefs.  Whats being said now is to be elected, you must look at the candidate's past and record.

[Decker]

Nice to see obama has distanced himself from the pastor...but as stated above, he did it for political reasons during an election.

Obama has talked about the great importance of his church & his pastor prior to the recent news.  He chose this pastor and church out of hundreds in the Chicago area and has been involved for nearly 20 yrs.  Any reasonably intelligent person can see this pastor is frantic with political and racial motivation (not to mention insighting mob mentality and ignorance).  The other troubling part is that the church attendees were cheering and clapping to these ridiculous rants.  Thats scary (many churches have scary sermons and ignorant quotes by pastors but we are concentrating on this one at the moment).  Those are not isolated incidents in the church, don't be niave.  Obama is a very smart individual, he knows exactly what kind of church this is, what kind pastor lead the church and what kind of support he received from them.  I think it provides more insight into he and Michelle Obama's true beliefs.  Whats being said now is to be elected, you must look at the candidate's past and record.

Did you had this same opinion of the dangers of informed choice when John McCain ran to kiss the ring of Jerry Falwell at Liberty U.?

[headhuntersix]

Decker....I hear what ur saying but Obama was with this guy for 20n years. I think there is little lese he can do. He's connected to this guy and at this point people will either belive him or they won't. If we are still talking about this next week then he has a problem.

[Decker]

Decker....I hear what ur saying but Obama was with this guy for 20n years. I think there is little lese he can do. He's connected to this guy and at this point people will either belive him or they won't. If we are still talking about this next week then he has a problem.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly that Obama has a problem now with this preacher.  It's going to make all the news cycles over and over again.

It looks like he's in the same boat as McCain but slightly different.  Back in 2000, McCain criticized Falwell as an agent of intolerance and 8 years later he's praising the man.

I suppose stuff like this must play out. 

[headhuntersix]

Yeah but Farwell didn't marry this guy's family and didn't baptize his kids. This is different and a piller of the Obama campaign is inclusiveness and hope....the preacher does not sling alot of hope, maybe hate. I see ur point. If this was Hil, she'd be dead. Its fun to watch how some people defend this. U can't defend this. Obam went to this guy for 20 years...he named his book after one of his sermons. i guess he was only paying attention that day. I also don't think Obama can really do a damm thing about this.

[Dos Equis]

I agree with headhunter.  There really is no comparison between McCain meeting with Falwell or others on one hand and Obama have a spiritual advisor in his ear for 20 years on the other hand.  Big distinction. 

[Tre]

This guy is the reason that Mormons do not allow cameras in their churches.

[headhuntersix]

I'm also betting that u have to meet and say nice things about the evangelicals to get their vote. Get in shake a hand and get out

Good point Tre

[MCWAY]

They tried to link Mccain with some guy who made some anti-catholic or anti islamic statements. He is considered Mccains spiritual advisor. I'm not sure if its a tokern kind of thing but this guy is in Ohio and not somebody that Mccain went to every sunday over 20 years. He's from the World harvest church. If this is the same place, then I lived 5 miles from this place. Its massive. The stuff they had on Fox didn't sound even remotely bad. In any event this is an Obama issue and he's done very little to distance himself. i don't even know what u can do. He went over 20 years, and this guy baptized his kids.

The man to whom you're referring is pastor Rod Parsley. Prior to this stuff with McCain, the last political figure with whom Parsley was associated (which brought him under scrutiny) was, I think, a mayor or governor who was backing the state's marriage amendment.

[OzmO]

What's happening here is people are confusing the preacher's political views with Obama's.

[Straw Man]

What's happening here is people are confusing the preacher's political views with Obama's.

The association is purely intentional