B&A International Classic - not NPC approved

[240 is Back]

I just went to the IFBB's website and didn't see any mention of this event. 

In fact, now that you mention it, I didn't see a link to the IFBB 'Pro League's' website either. 

Why is that?

http://ifbb.com/

News item #2 here:
http://ifbbpro.com/category/news/

[Melvin Goodrum]

Some would say Tim Fogarty is the only voice of accountability and fairness in an industry rampant with politics and selective enforcement.

Would you agree?

I don't agree.  Tim may run the most informative bodybuilding websites around however the status of athletes being suspended in an organization is none of his business. 

Those records are private and current athletes that are suspended should not be publicly outed.  If they wish to come forward as did Lee Priest, then let them. 

[Melvin Goodrum]

No evidence has yet been presented that anyone has been suspended or otherwise not allowed to compete in the NPC for being a 'pro'.

In fact, I bet there's one or two IFBB pros who later competed in an NPC Masters or Grand Masters contest.

ok, a bit obscure, but Henry Caulker competed as an IFBB Pro in 1979-1981, then 20 years later as an amateur in the Grand Masters class at the NPC Emerald Cup in 2002 and 2004.

There is a clause in the IFBB contract that states that a pro competitor can switch back to the amatuer division if they ask permission.  However, its a one way trip and they cannot come back. 

[ben 1]

 Hello everybody this is Ben the promoter of the B&A International Classics 2008!
First at all thank you for your positive support and for the guys who do not like us,
it is all good.We the B&A Production are only interested to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better.
We have no intentions to have a war with a certain organization.Whatever they think is good for the Athletes ,so be it.
Athletes will choose in the future what is better for them.People say that we are a one time wonder,sorry to disappoint you.Astrid and I have decided to do everything in our Power to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better.So there will be more shows to come with more crazy prizes.This year we give out 3 new cars but
if the Athletes choose that night not to take the car,we offer them a $10000 sponsorship contract in cash upfront that day.We also did not mention that on top of having a chance to win the new motorcycle cruiser at out party with free food and drinks,we will give away Gold's Gym cloth,Vitamin Packs,Lana's Eggwhites and more.On top of all that here are great news!!! It is not on our website yet but will there next week!
We are looking for a female and male Athlete who competes at our show to cast for a live TV Fitness show in Los Angeles CA.They will have their own Fitness TV show together.It is not based on placing! Only on looks and personality.We will announce the winner that night!
Help us to spread the word and change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better!!!


www.internationalclassic slasvegas.com - most amazing Amateur show in the world in 2008!

BTW :We are an Amateur Show exactly like the Loadedcup is an IFBB Amateur show with a lot of prize money.Check it out for yourself Bob www.loadedcup.dk 

[onlyme]

There is a clause in the IFBB contract that states that a pro competitor can switch back to the amatuer division if they ask permission.  However, its a one way trip and they cannot come back. 

Then why would they have to ask permission if they can't come back.  How ignorant are you Goodrum. 

[Tre]

Is the IFBB 'Pro League' part of the IFBB? 

[timfogarty]

Is the IFBB 'Pro League' part of the IFBB? 

Rafael Santonja's amateur IFBB and Jim Manion's IFBB Pro League are pretty much two separate private corporations now.    The former is still a not-for-profit corp.  Don't know about the later.

The NPC is also privately held not for profit corporation.

[dearth]

the bottom line of this thread (other than Chick trying save face for Jim Manion)

is that there are many examples of NPC competitors that compete outside the NPC for money.

if there is a "rule" that prohibits it is just as much of a joke as the IFBB's rules i.e. arbitrarily/selectevely enforced

Tim Fogarty is the voice of objective truth, i'm surprised chick hasn't banned him yet.

There's a big difference....if you're a current pro, there's obviously no way you can compete in a NPC show.....if you're a former pro, there is nothing stopping you from returning to competition as an amateur, assuming you've given up your pro status for a time (not exactly sure how long that is)

[Moosejay]

Hello everybody this is Ben the promoter of the B&A International Classics 2008!
First at all thank you for your positive support and for the guys who do not like us,
it is all good.We the B&A Production are only interested to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better.
We have no intentions to have a war with a certain organization.Whatever they think is good for the Athletes ,so be it.
Athletes will choose in the future what is better for them.People say that we are a one time wonder,sorry to disappoint you.Astrid and I have decided to do everything in our Power to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better.So there will be more shows to come with more crazy prizes.This year we give out 3 new cars but
if the Athletes choose that night not to take the car,we offer them a $10000 sponsorship contract in cash upfront that day.We also did not mention that on top of having a chance to win the new motorcycle cruiser at out party with free food and drinks,we will give away Gold's Gym cloth,Vitamin Packs,Lana's Eggwhites and more.On top of all that here are great news!!! It is not on our website yet but will there next week!
We are looking for a female and male Athlete who competes at our show to cast for a live TV Fitness show in Los Angeles CA.They will have their own Fitness TV show together.It is not based on placing! Only on looks and personality.We will announce the winner that night!
Help us to spread the word and change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better!!!


www.internationalclassic slasvegas.com - most amazing Amateur show in the world in 2008!

BTW :We are an Amateur Show exactly like the Loadedcup is an IFBB Amateur show with a lot of prize money.Check it out for yourself Bob www.loadedcup.dk 

Ben: I applaud what you are doing.

However, from a business standpoint, I really don't see your angle....

[Chick]

Hello everybody this is Ben the promoter of the B&A International Classics 2008!
First at all thank you for your positive support and for the guys who do not like us,
it is all good.We the B&A Production are only interested to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better.
We have no intentions to have a war with a certain organization.Whatever they think is good for the Athletes ,so be it.
Athletes will choose in the future what is better for them.People say that we are a one time wonder,sorry to disappoint you.Astrid and I have decided to do everything in our Power to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better.So there will be more shows to come with more crazy prizes.This year we give out 3 new cars but
if the Athletes choose that night not to take the car,we offer them a $10000 sponsorship contract in cash upfront that day.We also did not mention that on top of having a chance to win the new motorcycle cruiser at out party with free food and drinks,we will give away Gold's Gym cloth,Vitamin Packs,Lana's Eggwhites and more.On top of all that here are great news!!! It is not on our website yet but will there next week!
We are looking for a female and male Athlete who competes at our show to cast for a live TV Fitness show in Los Angeles CA.They will have their own Fitness TV show together.It is not based on placing! Only on looks and personality.We will announce the winner that night!
Help us to spread the word and change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better!!!


www.internationalclassic slasvegas.com - most amazing Amateur show in the world in 2008!

BTW :We are an Amateur Show exactly like the Loadedcup is an IFBB Amateur show with a lot of prize money.Check it out for yourself Bob www.loadedcup.dk 

Hey Ben-

Not sure why I need to check it out, and I'm certainly not familiar with IFBB amateur...

Just to make clear...I have not badmouthed your show, or tried in any way to make it out to be anything but what it is.

I think what you're doing is admirable, and will benefit those athletes who choose to compete in your show...

That said...I do have to question your motives...you claim not to be in any competition with the NPC, yet choose to hold a show in the same city and 1 day after the NPC USA, certainly doesn't seem like it was chosen for any other reason BUT to be...

[240 is Back]

...I do have to question your motives...you claim not to be in any competition with the NPC, yet choose to hold a show in the same city and 1 day after the NPC USA, certainly doesn't seem like it was chosen for any other reason BUT to be...

Why would that be in competition with the NPC show?

What NPC events are held the day after the show?

If none, what we have here is a guy offering athletes who are already in town, already in shape, and already pro-tanned, a chance to show up the next day and win a car.

LOL... show us how they're competing with the NPC, Bob

[Chick]

Why would that be in competition with the NPC show?

What NPC events are held the day after the show?

If none, what we have here is a guy offering athletes who are already in town, already in shape, and already pro-tanned, a chance to show up the next day and win a car.

LOL... show us how they're competing with the NPC, Bob

Well, I guess it will be interesting to see how many NPC athletes he pick up from the USA then, won't it?

[Zach Trowbridge]

Well, I guess it will be interesting to see how many NPC athletes he pick up from the USA then, won't it?

That's not really competing against it, so much as helping the athletes kill two birds with one stone, I would say.  Competing against it would be having it the same day.

[Disgusted]

That's not really competing against it, so much as helping the athletes kill two birds with one stone, I would say.  Competing against it would be having it the same day.

This is true. Pretty interesting scenerio this is. There may be a lot of guys jumping into this show after the USA to try and pick up some money and a car. If the NPC does try to ban these guys (not likely) they would  only be hurting themselves since there could be some very good competitors not entering the Nationals this year.

On the other hand there is a limit to 300 entrants for the B&A show and I am assuming this is going to fill up pretty quick so any guys who have the intentions of waiting to see how they place at the USA's may be too late.

[Chick]

This is true. Pretty interesting scenerio this is. There may be a lot of guys jumping into this show after the USA to try and pick up some money and a car. If the NPC does try to ban these guys (not likely) they would  only be hurting themselves since there could be some very good competitors not entering the Nationals this year.

On the other hand there is a limit to 300 entrants for the B&A show and I am assuming this is going to fill up pretty quick so any guys who have the intentions of waiting to see how they place at the USA's may be too late.

To say the least....not sure how many will be willing to shell out 3-500 dollar entry fee

[Disgusted]

To say the least....not sure how many will be willing to shell out 3-500 dollar entry fee

Yeah, thought about that too. To be honest I would think since his prize money is up there that he should do pretty good. Plus he has no org. fee. Entry is $250 if I read correctly and crossover is $99.00. Late fee is $50 extra, but like I said I am betting he gets his 300 entrants. Rumor has it that he already has teams coming from other counties.

[Chick]

Yeah, thought about that too. To be honest I would think since his prize money is up there that he should do pretty good. Plus he has no org. fee. Entry is $250 if I read correctly and crossover is $99.00. Late fee is $50 extra, but like I said I am betting he gets his 300 entrants. Rumor has it that he already has teams coming from other counties.

I hope the guy does well, really....I'm all for the athletes making a buck...just hope the NPC thing doesn't come back to bite anyone in the ass.

[onlyme]

Hey the entry fee is about what it cost to be an IFBB pro each year.  At least at this show they have a better chance to win some cash and great prizes.  And also highly doubt they would ban anyone to compete in any more NPC events.  Isn't that illegal.  wasn't there some kind of law passed or something like that.  Especially if they don't win anything.  Then the NPC can't do a thing.  And how about if the winners give or donate their prizes to their girlfriend or something like that so they don't directly recieve the prize.  They would be competing for someone else in a sense.  Who cares at least they won.  It is an amateur show and the NPC can't do anything about that.

[Chick]

Hey the entry fee is about what it cost to be an IFBB pro each year.  At least at this show they have a better chance to win some cash and great prizes.  And also highly doubt they would ban anyone to compete in any more NPC events.  Isn't that illegal.  wasn't there some kind of law passed or something like that.  Especially if they don't win anything.  Then the NPC can't do a thing.  And how about if the winners give or donate their prizes to their girlfriend or something like that so they don't directly recieve the prize.  They would be competing for someone else in a sense.  Who cares at least they won.  It is an amateur show and the NPC can't do anything about that.

But these aren't pro's, Keith...theyre amateurs (or at least theyre supposed to be).

The law passed only deals with the fact that the NPC cannot force athletes to only compete in THEIR org...but now there will a question if this show is considered such...

Not sure on the particulars...

[Disgusted]

I hope the guy does well, really....I'm all for the athletes making a buck...just hope the NPC thing doesn't come back to bite anyone in the ass.

That's cool to say and I feel the same way. I don't think in the long run anyone will be hurt by this at all. I personally have nothing against the NPC at all, I just like to see people have options. Time will tell.

[onlyme]

But these aren't pro's, Keith...theyre amateurs (or at least theyre supposed to be).

The law passed only deals with the fact that the NPC cannot force athletes to only compete in THEIR org...but now there will a question if this show is considered such...

Not sure on the particulars...

You know you are my buddy Chic.  I have no idea either way.  I do find it hard to believe how much this must be costing to put on (prizes alone) uness he got them all donated.  But you have to admit the prizes and such is quite impressive for a show like this.

[Disgusted]

I once read the court verdict, but I don't remember exactly what it said. I do recall the the NPC lost the case because they would not let someone enter an NPC show because this person had entered an AAU show. I could be wrong, but I don't think it had anything to do with the other org being amateur or pro. Also I am curious how the NPC is set up on paper. Is it registered as an amateur org? The name National Physique Committee does not imply this.

[ben 1]

Hey Ben-

Not sure why I need to check it out, and I'm certainly not familiar with IFBB amateur...

Just to make clear...I have not badmouthed your show, or tried in any way to make it out to be anything but what it is.

I think what you're doing is admirable, and will benefit those athletes who choose to compete in your show...

That said...I do have to question your motives...you claim not to be in any competition with the NPC, yet choose to hold a show in the same city and 1 day after the NPC USA, certainly doesn't seem like it was chosen for any other reason BUT to be...

Hello Bob,
in the beginning it looked like that there would never be a problem since we are a Production,non Organization company and we only wanted to make it easy for Athletes to get something while there anyway in town.This whole thing went way out of hand.Our only intension from the beginning was to do something good for the Athletes.The reason why i said that you should check it out (The Loadedcup)was that everybody from the NPC said"As an Amateur you can not get more that $500 at an Amateur show or it is a Pro show" The Loadedcup is an IFBB Amateur show with 15000 - 20000,-Euro prize money and many giveaways.So this is the proof that you can!!!The NPC also tried to scare people with saying that this would be the reason they will get stripped of their Amateur status.This is not true.Yes Athletes will get banned for a year,according to the Amateur IFBB but nothing more.I am in this sport for 30 years now and Astrid and I are putting on this show for the Athletes.Will we make money with it? Certainly not this year but this is fine.I was about time that someone stepped up and does something for our sport,which we really love!There will be more shows with crazy prizes from the B&A only once or twice a year but certainly not anymore in July in Las Vegas.We are not against the NPC or anybody else for that matter.We are however for the Athletes and we will do everything to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better!
Ben
www.internationalclassic slasvegas.com

[Chick]

Hello Bob,
in the beginning it looked like that there would never be a problem since we are a Production,non Organization company and we only wanted to make it easy for Athletes to get something while there anyway in town.This whole thing went way out of hand.Our only intension from the beginning was to do something good for the Athletes.The reason why i said that you should check it out (The Loadedcup)was that everybody from the NPC said"As an Amateur you can not get more that $500 at an Amateur show or it is a Pro show" The Loadedcup is an IFBB Amateur show with 15000 - 20000,-Euro prize money and many giveaways.So this is the proof that you can!!!The NPC also tried to scare people with saying that this would be the reason they will get stripped of their Amateur status.This is not true.Yes Athletes will get banned for a year,according to the Amateur IFBB but nothing more.I am in this sport for 30 years now and Astrid and I are putting on this show for the Athletes.Will we make money with it? Certainly not this year but this is fine.I was about time that someone stepped up and does something for our sport,which we really love!There will be more shows with crazy prizes from the B&A only once or twice a year but certainly not anymore in July in Las Vegas.We are not against the NPC or anybody else for that matter.We are however for the Athletes and we will do everything to change Amateur Bodybuilding for the better!
Ben
www.internationalclassic slasvegas.com

Just curious, Ben...but why not do for PRO bodybuilding where guys (and girls) make a living from it? Why focus on the amateurs?

[G o a t b o y]

Just curious, Ben...but why not do for PRO bodybuilding where guys (and girls) make a living from it? Why focus on the amateurs?

Massive IFBB sanction fees, perhaps? 



(not to mention he'd have to use IFBB judges...  maybe he'd prefer to have the best bodybuilder win instead of politics being part of his show)