Why doesn't Team U winner , take his pro card and then make formal complaint?

[timfogarty]

Can't answer what I don't know...

you're the athletic representative to the organization, and you don't know what's going on between the organization and the athletes ? ? ?

[nycbull]

that crayon post is hilarious

[tom joad]

There are lots of rules that are in place to cover their ass...not too tough to figure out.

hahaha Chick, the athete's rep, acknowledges that the IFBB is a joke.

why would fans of bodybuilding take the "sport" seriously when the IFBB itself clearly doesn't?

[onlyme]

That's right...it is against the rules...and anyone caught using anything listed on the banned substance list via testing, will face disciplinary action and/ or suspension.

Chic here is a great question.  List all the drugs the IFBB tests for and which are banned.  I (we) can't wait

[onlyme]

Bro...I got news for you...no one cares, The athletes don't want testing, neither does the federation, nor the fans....so why the big push to have the rule enforced?

Kind of like setting a speed limit so people are safer.  People like to go fast, but there is a law that limits that so when you speed you get in trouble.  That is why we have laws and rules to live by.  I am sure most people hate stopping at red lights.  It would be much easier to just be able to go without stopping, but some brilliant guy figured it could cause quite a mess if we don't have a way to control traffic so lets put up lights.  And you may want to erase the part about the IFFB not wanting drug testing.  not a good thing to admit these days

[Colossus_1986]

Chic here is a great question.  List all the drugs the IFBB tests for and which are banned.  I (we) can't wait

Creatine

the end.

 

[Chick]

Why do the police only enforce certain laws? Welcome to life, son....

Some rules are put in place to protect the company, they're there if they need it....just like the company you work for. Most companies have a drug testing program in lace, yet never seem to use it...why?

As to your "selective" enforcement...you still don't get it, do you? As long as everyone is treated equally, why should I be fighting for a rule that's never implemented?

[jaejonna]

Awesome explanation Chick     

[wisconsinBB]

 

[tom joad]

Some rules are put in place to protect the company, they're there if they need it....

Are you saying that the IFBB knows that all of its competitors are juiced to the gills, but when the cops show up the IFBB can whip out their rule book?

[emn1964]

Why do the police only enforce certain laws? Welcome to life, son....

Some rules are put in place to protect the company, they're there if they need it....just like the company you work for. Most companies have a drug testing program in lace, yet never seem to use it...why?

As to your "selective" enforcement...you still don't get it, do you? As long as everyone is treated equally, why should I be fighting for a rule that's never implemented?

The selectivity comes in to play when a company enforces some rules but not others.  It's not selectivity in who they chose to enforce the rules against, its the rules themselves that they chose to enforce.  Basically a company cannot have a handbook of rules and only chose to enforce some of the rules.  This is employment law 101.

[dearth]

do you not understand english, chick?

ifbb enforces competing in rival federations rules
ifbb does not enforce drug test rules

= selective enforcement

here's another one for you

chicks inabilty to grasp this concept = ifbb stooge

Why do the police only enforce certain laws? Welcome to life, son....

Some rules are put in place to protect the company, they're there if they need it....just like the company you work for. Most companies have a drug testing program in lace, yet never seem to use it...why?

As to your "selective" enforcement...you still don't get it, do you? As long as everyone is treated equally, why should I be fighting for a rule that's never implemented?

[tom joad]

The selectivity comes in to play when a company enforces some rules but not others.  It's not selectivity in who they chose to enforce the rules against, its the rules themselves that they chose to enforce.  Basically a company cannot have a handbook of rules and only chose to enforce some of the rules.  This is employment law 101.

why would you expect an athlete's rep to have a basic understanding of employment law?

[HowieW]

Howard, what kind of dogs do you have?

I have a couple of shelties. The sable and white is in the first pic posted in the thread and this is Tazzy the black and white one.

[Chick]

do you not understand english, chick?

ifbb enforces competing in rival federations rules
ifbb does not enforce drug test rules

= selective enforcement

here's another one for you

chicks inabilty to grasp this concept = ifbb stooge

So des the NFL, the MLB, the NBA, and the PGA as well as  every other sports org....

Maybe some of you masterminds should look up the wording of some of these rules....."may be", "subject to", "at the discretion" and  "Reserve the right".... are all common phrases that litter the IFBB rulebook,(as well as any other rulebook)

Means exactly what it says...doesn't say MANDATORY, or ABSOLUTELY.

Doesn't mean the will, means the can if they want to....

 

[CalvinH]

 

[HowieW]

So des the NFL, the MLB, the NBA, and the PGA as well as  every other sports org....

Maybe some of you masterminds should look up the wording of some of these rules....."may be", "subject to", "at the discretion" and  "Reserve the right".... are all common phrases that litter the IFBB rulebook,(as well as any other rulebook)

Means exactly what it says...doesn't say MANDATORY, or ABSOLUTELY.

Doesn't mean the will, means the can if they want to....

 

I don't want to put you on the spot about this issue Bob, but since you chimed in, I want to get your feedback on a couple pts .
1. The other pro sports look upon steroid use as cheating the sport and the fans.
The majority of those in bodybuilding look at steroid use as an abolute must for a good pro and consider NOT useing 'roids as bad and cheating the fans out of a good show.

2. I have no personal agenda against steroid use and  am a devoted , haredcore fan of bodybuilding.
*As the pro bodybuilder athlete rep, I am sure this will interest you.*
With the absurd drug testing rules still on the IFBB books, it puts the legal burden and risks square on the shoulders of the individual pro. If the pro gets busted for simply doing what he must to compete , he alone will be the one in front of judge , his freedom on the line.
a.To compete as a top pro under the current system, you have to use a certain amount of drugs.
b. Much of this drug use, is against the federal drug laws and REQUIRES a successful pro to break the federal drug laws!

3. The fans, IFBB and promoters make out just fine. They get an "enhanced" pro on stage without ANY responsibilty for how he got that way.

Once again Bob, I have nothing personal against sensible , personal steroid use. I love bodybuilding and will be a ticket buying fan no matter what happens with regards to drugs.My concern is with the OVERALL welfare of pro bodybuilding and the individual pros I admire. As a sincere, involved pro bodybuilding rep, I know this topic is of concern for you as well. I would think some kind of reasonable,moderate policy could be suggested that would help ?
Howard

[tom joad]

Howie, the IFBB doesn't deserve to have you as a fan.  Actually, they'd prefer not to have you as a fan since you're rocking the boat (eventhough you're doing it as diplomatically as possible and with only the best intentions.)  The sad truth is that you're too good a guy and you have too good a conscience for the "sport" that you love.

[njflex]

Howie, the IFBB doesn't deserve to have you as a fan.  Actually, they'd prefer not to have you as a fan since you're rocking the boat (eventhough you're doing it as diplomatically as possible.)  The sad truth is that you're too good a guy and you have too good a conscience for the "sport" that you love.

AND thats howies downfall by default...chic is a good guy and family guy,good son to his parents too,loves bbing but he had to draw the line in the sand and do what everybody did or does,to be a good pro.conscience will play with your mind everday for rest of your life.no matter what you do ..

[HowieW]

Howie, the IFBB doesn't deserve to have you as a fan.  Actually, they'd prefer not to have you as a fan since you're rocking the boat (eventhough you're doing it as diplomatically as possible.)  The sad truth is that you're too good a guy and you have too good a conscience for the "sport" that you love.

Thanks for the kind words, I do feel strongly about trying to be reasonable and diplomatic. I am going to a pro NGA "natual" show this weekend ( near ATL) and try to support well run, natural shows . I have considered giving up on NONtested events, like the NPC and IFBB pros at various times over the years. The reality is, these shows are the biggest and best in bodybuilding overall.I would be punishing myself if I refused to attend IFBB pro events.
They would still go on , and would end up missing out on a great bodybuilding contest experience.
I have no intention of being a matyr or making a some illogical sacrifice as a pro bodybuilding fan.
I also have nothing personal against steroid use in bodybuilding. As I said already, my concern is over the legal issues and health problems. I don't think top bodybuilders should have to risk breaking the law or their health.

[HowieW]

AND thats howies downfall by default...chic is a good guy and family guy,good son to his parents too,loves bbing but he had to draw the line in the sand and do what everybody did or does,to be a good pro.conscience will play with your mind everday for rest of your life.no matter what you do ..

You are actually making my argument for me here. I know Bob is a great guy, my point is that NOBODY should be REQUIRED to break the drug laws ,just to compete fairly in the sport they love.
The judge is not going to be concerned with your conscience or feelings if you get busted.

[onlyme]

Why do the police only enforce certain laws? Welcome to life, son....

Some rules are put in place to protect the company, they're there if they need it....just like the company you work for. Most companies have a drug testing program in lace, yet never seem to use it...why?

As to your "selective" enforcement...you still don't get it, do you? As long as everyone is treated equally, why should I be fighting for a rule that's never implemented?

Buddy I was really hoping for an intelligent answer but this is horrible even for you.  I take it you have no answer.  Thats okay, I understand maybe Manion is on the phone and you are getting a busy signal.  We can wait till you get through to him for an answer.  But, even his answer will be pathetic.  You really need to stop comparing BB and the way Weiders run the IFBB and NPC with other sports and especially companies.  There is NOT one more crooked run company than these.  So please stop doing that.  Thanks

[MB]

Drug testing the NPC seems like it should be a bigger priority.  Make them turn pro without drugs, and then if they don't make it, at least they can walk away with their health.  The ones who turn pro can do all the drugs they want, but having "natural amateurs" seems like the right thing to do.   

[dearth]

Rule 8 – Drug Testing
chick,

i think you should look up your own rules, better yet here it is.


8.1 Policy Statement:
Sport involves physical health and fitness, mental application and dedication to
training. Doping – the use of prohibited substances and/or prohibited methods –
to artificially enhance performance is unethical, contrary to the concept of fair
play, undermines the values of sport, and can endanger the health of the athletes.


looks like the ifbb is reluctant to enforce rule 8.1 but is ready was all ready to suspend lee, milos

So des the NFL, the MLB, the NBA, and the PGA as well as  every other sports org....

Maybe some of you masterminds should look up the wording of some of these rules....."may be", "subject to", "at the discretion" and  "Reserve the right".... are all common phrases that litter the IFBB rulebook,(as well as any other rulebook)

Means exactly what it says...doesn't say MANDATORY, or ABSOLUTELY.

Doesn't mean the will, means the can if they want to....

 

[HowieW]

Drug testing the NPC seems like it should be a bigger priority.  Make them turn pro without drugs, and then if they don't make it, at least they can walk away with their health.  The ones who turn pro can do all the drugs they want, but having "natural amateurs" seems like the right thing to do.   

The NPC and Jim Manion did the right thing to deal with this tough issue about 14 yrs ago. They started the drug tested Team Universe. This gave natural bodybuilders within the NPC ranks a drug tested national contest.
This contest also picked via winning his/her wt class, the members of the USA Team for the IFBB Amatuer Worlds .
When international tensions and politics amde it difficult for the USA team to travel safely, the overall winner was given a pro card.

Real , substantial change ahs to come from the top down.
If the best bodybuilders all use substantial amounts of the juice, then you get the message of what needs to be done in a loud and clear fashion. If real testing come into practice and the pros had to scale back on a lot of their drug use, it would send a BIG message to tone down your drug use, if you ever want a chance to make it in the pros.

Those that claim drug testing won't stop all drug use are in theory correct. However, the real issue is to make drug use a lot less of a factor and drug testing would do that. You don't end  enforcement of all speed limits simply
because people still drive fast every day. The law and enforcement efforts keep things in check and prevent most crazy folks from driving drunk at 100 mph down the sidewalk.
Howard