Q&A with IFBB Pro Milos Sarcev

[Milos_Sarcev]

Not sure exactly what you are asking but I think I get the general idea. I think it all boils down to money and politics. Gee really      Silvio has come into shows with excellent conditioning obviously with your help. So, he ends up getting a contract and this is where things get hairy. If Silvio (for example, not to single him out) comes into a show and is maybe not in his best shape OR! is not making the RIGHT KIND of improvements and place low then it will look bad for the guys who are paying him and sponsoring shows. 

Silvio is the type of guys who usually comes into a show in shape as far as conditioning goes. It is much easier to "win" a show with good conditioning and maybe not much size or bad symmetry than to win if you are fat or watery. (although I have seen it happen that way too (Jacoughcough Cucoughcough). Most people here know that I am a fan of conditioning, BUT if you do not bring symmetry and size and a pleasing shape then you should be scored appropriately in those rounds should they not?

Again, not to pick on Silvio, but since he did win the show. His delts need work, his upper body is underdeveloped compared to his legs (which is different than one's legs being too big for your his body) no lat width from the front, waist is too long and he does not know how to hit his mandatory poses correctly which is different than knowing how to pose. Too be honest I really haven't done much more than a long glance, but it was enough to know in my mind that the placings were off, but again no one will complain since Silvio had good conditioning.

Here Jim...this is what I am talking about it...
If we make some judging comments - it would be great if we all elaborate on OUR VIEWS and/or opinions...

I was asked from someone:

by TheGame76 View Post:

The only thing that really sticks out to me is Hidetatada up in 9/10/11 and Silvio all the way down in 13th. Could you please explain that one?

And here is my answer:

Yes, very much so...and please don't forget that I trained both of them for few months ON DAILY BASES and saw them pose next to each other countless number of times...

Silvio is also PHENOMENAL BODYBUILDER BY ALL MEANS and me putting him LOWER than where he placed is absolutely NOT from any vendetta (what many would think...)

I think he considerably worsened his balance - and his legs are now really overpowering his upper body in many poses...
His back is also considerably smaller and somewhat softer than earlier this year...and that could be said for the rest of his upper body as well.

Look at the photos from the Ironman, Sacramento, Arnold Classic and compare it to Europa show (which he won) and Olympia...

When he lifts his arms up (front and back double biceps pose) it is clearly visible how small is his torso in comparison to his legs...+ what is surprising - his great arms don't look to impressive once he lifts them up...
What seems to be phenomenal arm (in down position) becomes below average arm when is in double biceps pose...(Contrary to Hide's who's arms are becoming incredible...)

So :
#1 - balance issue (legs too big for his upper body)
#2 - torso quite small/ somewhat narrow
#3 - calves need much work
#4 - lifted arms - not as impressive
#5 - lat spread - not as wide
#6 - posing while improved still NOT at professional level
#7 - still making "mistakes" of letting his stomach out on stage (occasionally enough to be photographed with his stomach out.../see some comparison photos on getbig or my site...)

to name the few...
Now, Hide is not perfect either (nobody is perfect...except me - off course...but that is another story...) but he was more muscular, thicker, wider (yes wider even though Hide is not particularly wide), fuller...with better stage presence, presentation, posing...

Symmetry round:
FRONT, both sides and rear relax pose - Balance (Hide), Shape (Silvio), Conditioning (tie), Muscularity (Hide), Presentation (Hide)


Front double biceps: Hide

Rear double biceps: Hide

Front lat spread: some advantages Silvio...some Hide (we can analyze deeply)

Rear lat spread:some advantages Silvio...some Hide (we can analyze deeply)


Side chest: Hide (Silvio is good in this pose - but overall impression goes to Hide...and I am talking about EVERY ASPECT of bodybuilding I am considering when judging)


Side triceps: same as above


Abs and thighs: Silvio


Most muscular: close


Posing routine: Hide




Judging should consider:

1- SHAPE, BALANCE, AESTHETICS, SYMMETRY, EXTREME V-TAPER, FLAT AND DEEP ABS, BEAUTY OF PHYSIQUE, HEALTHY SKIN...AND HEALTHY OVERALL APPEARANCE...as ONE ASPECT OF JUDGING

2- CONDITIONING, MUSCULARITY, EXTREME LEAN LOOK, DRYNESS, SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, TIE-INS, "GRAINY-NESS", HARDNESS, TIGHT SKIN, SHREDDED-NESS...and other EXTREMES of similar nature...
But, here I would also consider muscle Glycogen storage - and FULLNESS as conditioning part of judging rather than MUSCLE MASS ASPECT of judging...

3- MUSCLE MASS, THICKNESS, WIDTH, ROUND MUSCLE BELLIES (could be considered in aspect #1 as well...)...and other extremes of similar nature...

4- PRESENTATION, POSING, ABILITY TO SHOW PHYSIQUE THE WAY IT SUPPOSE TO LOOK (not leaving it up for imagination of others to THINK what certain physique could look like IF presented correctly...), MISTAKE FREE POSING (#1- many competitors forget to squeeze certain muscles...and more often than not - judges would just go with: "well, if Jay squeezed his legs on Friday during the prejudging - he would have looked better so I would give him this pose considering that I know what his legs and physique looks like IF he posed correctly, #2 - many competitors let their "pregnancy show"...and that's a no-no, #3 - also many fail to find THE BEST WAY to do certain poses...etc...etc...), STAGE PRESENCE (standing in line up PERFECTLY...AT ALL TIMES), HITTING EVERY POSE WITH CONFIDENCE AND AUTHORITY, CHOREOGRAPHING ROUTINES with perfect transitions, SHOWING PHYSIQUE TO EMPHASIZE REAL STRENGTH OF SOMEONES PHYSIQUE (and not the weaknesses...Many fail to realize that POSING ROUND is not being judged for actual posing or movement...Fat, out of shape ballet artist or out of shape professional dancer should not win the posing round by virtue of his posing skills...Posing round is PHYSIQUE ROUND where athletes could/should show their strengths USING POSES OTHER THAN MANDATORIES that present their physiques in that "special light" bodybuilders want to be known for...So, aesthetic guy could emphasize beauty of his physique, aesthetic look, perfect shape, symmetry and balance by doing EXACT POSES to exemplify WHAT HIS ATTRIBUTES ARE...
Conditioned guy on another hand could present his shredded physique by doing poses to show his shredded muscles (or maybe hide cellulite?)...and muscular guy should do as many muscular posses...thick guy presenting his thickness, wide guy his width...V-tapered guy his extreme V-taper...etc...etc

If someone succeeds in presentation of his strengths THAN AND ONLY THAN we could say OK - he should have place higher as he is: THIS (aesthetic, balanced, symmetrical...) or THAT (conditioned, more muscular, bigger, thicker, wider...)...
But, many times fans go with picture of their favorite champion AS THEY REMEMBER HIM from before - while only shadow of that physique is being displayed on the stage at the moment - yet "shadow" gets the same amount of points as "sentimental judgment" or "paid dues" treatment from the judges that ALSO consider what once was or what could have been (if in shape)...

WE NEED TO START JUDGING PHYSIQUES ON THE DAY OF THE CONTEST REGARDLESS OF NAMES, PREVIOUS OUTINGS...ETC...POLITICS ...

I am in a hurry actually so maybe I am rushing this a bit...but I will get back to make some points...or rather - maybe WE CAN ALL START NEW THREAD ABOUT JUDGING - and NOT to argue with judges and federation...Not to criticize but rather to START WORKING ON HELPING OUR OFFICIALS FINDING THE BEST WAY TO JUDGE...

To take that "subjectivity OUT" or at least reduce it to minimum...so we (ALL OF US WHO LOVE SPORT OF BODYBUILDING, ATHLETES AS WELL AS FANS) could have clear idea WHY some guy managed to place ahead of others...

Judges should be able to explain WHY they saw Jay superior to OTHERS at 2007 Mr. Olympia...

Did they saw him better in:

1- SHAPE, BALANCE, AESTHETICS, SYMMETRY, EXTREME V-TAPER, FLAT AND DEEP ABS, BEAUTY OF PHYSIQUE, HEALTHY SKIN...AND HEALTHY OVERALL APPEARANCE...department?

I don't think so...as I see many beating Jay in this aspect of judging.


2- CONDITIONING, MUSCULARITY, EXTREME LEAN LOOK, DRYNESS, SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, TIE-INS, "GRAINY-NESS", HARDNESS, TIGHT SKIN, SHREDDED-NESS...and other EXTREMES of similar nature...
But, here I would also consider muscle Glycogen storage - and FULLNESS as conditioning part of judging rather than MUSCLE MASS ASPECT of judging...


I don't think so - AGAIN...



3- MUSCLE MASS, THICKNESS, WIDTH, ROUND MUSCLE BELLIES (could be considered in aspect #1 as well...)...and other extremes of similar nature...

Maybe in this one? So this is "holly grail" of bodybuilding - BIGGER IS BETTER AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS?



4- PRESENTATION, POSING, ABILITY TO SHOW PHYSIQUE THE WAY IT SUPPOSE TO LOOK

Again...NOT the case (in my book)...


So, let's help our judges...which will ultimately help our sport.

Give your point of view...and we could SOLVE THE PROBLEM - very easily...

[chris faildo]

Aloha Milos, thanks for the DVD, I just got it today and will view it this week.  Take care,Chris

[Van_Bilderass]

Chris never used tiratricol.

Here you go Emeric 

Ok I've used Thiomucase Cream and Tricana when it first came out on the market. I won't lie about that.

[Montague]

Great thread!
Many thanks to Milos, Disgusted, and the mods.

They even got the King posting again.
 

[Milos_Sarcev]

Milos,

On PBW you stated that you had no problem discussing steroid usage. In your opinion what would be an ideal 12 week steroid program if wanted to gain size?  Not to compete but to gain size strictly?

I mentioned somewhere here on getbig what the true IFBB Olympia competitor cycle looks like - and most of the people attacked not just me, my parents, grandparents...and my ancestors but my whole Religion, Nationality...and...OK.. .I am running out of ideas...

Anyway, what I said than (hopefully someone could find it?) and I will say now:

Smart pros use dramatically LESS than what most of the people believe...
Some of the guys I prepare actually complained on amounts I have given here on board - as WAY TOO MUCH...and I do know few guys who hardly touch those amounts...

But, if you want to accomplish THE BEST EFFECT: Highest anabolism, lowest catabolism, appropriate androgenic activity and possible fat loss while trying to maintain (or gain?) muscle size and considering correct usage and certainly NOT abusing any drugs...keeping eye on possible side effects vs benefits...than my 12 week Olympia cycle would be:

4 weeks:
Sustanon 250 - (500-750 mg/week)
Deca (500 mg/week)
Dboll (3X20mg/day)
Trenbolon (200 mg/week)
Arimidex - 1mg /day

5-8 week:
Test Prop 50-100 mg/day alternate with Test Heptylate 50-100 mg day (500-700 mg/week)
Trenbolon Acetate (200 mg/week)
Primobolan (500 mg/week)
Anadrol (3 x 25 mg/day)
Winstrol tabs (3 x 15 mg/day)
Arimidex - 1 mg /day alternate with 2.5 mg Femara every other day

9-12 week:

Test prop 100 mg/day alternate with 50-100 mg Test Suspension /day - every other day (500-700 mg /week)
Masterone 100 mg every other day - stop 10 days out
Winstrol injectable 50 mg /day (week 9) 100 mg/day (week 10) and 150 mg/day (week 11) - stop 5 days out
Oxandrolone (3 x 10-20 mg/day)
Halotestin (3 x 10 mg/day) / Or Andriol (40 mg Test Undecanoate x 3 /day) - either or?
Arimidex 2 mg (possible 3?) /day

With this cycle possible additions:

Clenbuterol, T3 (cytomel) T4 (Synthroid) GH, insulin, Cytadren....IF needed or available...but you asked for steroids - anyway...

OK?

Got to go now...

[candidizzle]

could you tell us how you would incorporate t3 and insulin ?

[MCWAY]

NO, I didn't...

I know you just departed for the day, but I hope the next time you log on to this thread, you can answer my inquiries.

Thanks!!

[Van_Bilderass]

Interesting that there's no Tren the last 3 weeks. Lots of guys like to keep it in for the hardness, the androgenic look, without bloat.

Milos did you ever experiment with mega-doses just to see what it would do?

[BIG DUB]

If you be so kind how would you run the t-3, clen, GH and insulin with this cycle also when would be a smart time to include your HCG and Clomid before your 6 weeks off post cycle period. Cytadren is a little too out of my league as it stops the production of ALL hormones in the body. I could see a ton of injuries coming from that. Thank you for your reply.

[quote author=Milos_Sarcev link=topic=222160.msg3124149#msg3124149 date=12156318


I mentioned somewhere here on getbig what the true IFBB Olympia competitor cycle looks like - and most of the people attacked not just me, my parents, grandparents...and my ancestors but my whole Religion, Nationality...and...OK.. .I am running out of ideas...

Anyway, what I said than (hopefully someone could find it?) and I will say now:

Smart pros use dramatically LESS than what most of the people believe...
Some of the guys I prepare actually complained on amounts I have given here on board - as WAY TOO MUCH...and I do know few guys who hardly touch those amounts...

But, if you want to accomplish THE BEST EFFECT: Highest anabolism, lowest catabolism, appropriate androgenic activity and possible fat loss while trying to maintain (or gain?) muscle size and considering correct usage and certainly NOT abusing any drugs...keeping eye on possible side effects vs benefits...than my 12 week Olympia cycle would be:

4 weeks:
Sustanon 250 - (500-750 mg/week)
Deca (500 mg/week)
Dboll (3X20mg/day)
Trenbolon (200 mg/week)
Arimidex - 1mg /day

5-8 week:
Test Prop 50-100 mg/day alternate with Test Heptylate 50-100 mg day (500-700 mg/week)
Trenbolon Acetate (200 mg/week)
Primobolan (500 mg/week)
Anadrol (3 x 25 mg/day)
Winstrol tabs (3 x 15 mg/day)
Arimidex - 1 mg /day alternate with 2.5 mg Femara every other day

9-12 week:

Test prop 100 mg/day alternate with 50-100 mg Test Suspension /day - every other day (500-700 mg /week)
Masterone 100 mg every other day - stop 10 days out
Winstrol injectable 50 mg /day (week 9) 100 mg/day (week 10) and 150 mg/day (week 11) - stop 5 days out
Oxandrolone (3 x 10-20 mg/day)
Halotestin (3 x 10 mg/day) / Or Andriol (40 mg Test Undecanoate x 3 /day) - either or?
Arimidex 2 mg (possible 3?) /day

With this cycle possible additions:

Clenbuterol, T3 (cytomel) T4 (Synthroid) GH, insulin, Cytadren....IF needed or available...but you asked for steroids - anyway...

OK?

Got to go now...


[/quote]

[ajcuts015]

Milos great to have you with this Q&A section !! What do you feel are the best carbs to carb up on leading into a show say if your following the 3 day deplete 3 day load protocol . If I dieted down on Oatmeal , Sweet Potatoes , Red Potatoes , and Brown Rice cakes would it be smart to use those or go with a quicker acting source such as white rice or white rice cakes , banana's , natural jelly , honey etc and even waxy maize possibly the first two days ..  What do you feel is the most effective way to carb up and really dry up the last week not using insulin by the way  ? Thanks in advance for any response !

[Cleanest Natural]

I will be hones and say thaT  I would use thAT cycle to prepare maybe for a show like Mr Getbig if the competition would be stiffer ...I believe that's a cycle that would put a guy like me at 85-87 kg max ripped.....given that all product is legit ...I'm 5'11" and without AAS and 8 % bodyfat I hover @ around 180 lbs.

However :

I do not believe for a single minute that a cycle like that would be appropriate for a serious competitor. Test alone would have to be @ 1g plus a week and deca at at least 600 .

For a professional, in my oppinion test is probably at around 3g-5g a week . To say the least...maybe 8-10 g AAS a week total. Not saying that Milos is wrong or lying , just that I believe that the amounts are much higher.

By the way I am speaking both from personal expirience and from working with a top 10 olympia bodybuilder.


This is me clean @ 182 lbs and 8 % bf...I look more defined than I really am because of lightning and slight dehydration. I have used AAS in the past, competed and was much bigger.

[genrommel74]

I will be hones and say thaT  I would use thAT cycle to prepare maybe for a show like Mr Getbig if the competition would be stiffer ...I believe that's a cycle that would put a guy like me at 85-87 kg max ripped.....given that all product is legit ...I'm 5'11" and without AAS and 8 % bodyfat I hover @ around 180 lbs.

However :

I do not believe for a single minute that a cycle like that would be appropriate for a serious competitor. Test alone would have to be @ 1g plus a week and deca at at least 600 .

For a professional, in my oppinion test is probably at around 3g-5g a week . To say the least...maybe 8-10 g AAS a week total. Not saying that Milos is wrong or lying , just that I believe that the amounts are much higher.

By the way I am speaking both from personal expirience and from working with a top 10 olympia bodybuilder.


This is me clean @ 182 lbs and 8 % bf...I look more defined than I really am because of lightning and slight dehydration. I have used AAS in the past, competed and was much bigger.

Look pretty good

[Cleanest Natural]

Maybe in that pose...I'm like Silvio...I raise my arms and I dissapear.

[TooPowerful4u]

Milos,

I see something i havent seen in a while advocated.  Stopping certain gear before the show.  Could you explain WHY you stop masteron 10 days out, Winstrol 5 days out, but NOT the prop?  If anything, would you want to minimize the TEST, as it is the only one which can aromatize and cause water retention?

[Cleanest Natural]

Milos,

I see something i havent seen in a while advocated.  Stopping certain gear before the show.  Could you explain WHY you stop masteron 10 days out, Winstrol 5 days out, but NOT the prop?  If anything, would you want to minimize the TEST, as it is the only one which can aromatize and cause water retention?

I would think the samething...why test and no masteron or winny ? why rely on diuretics too much perhaps ?

[affeman]

For a professional, in my oppinion test is probably at around 3g-5g a week . To say the least...maybe 8-10 g AAS a week total.

I doubt that on these dosages a pro career would last longer than a few months. 8-10 g lol , just think about the injcection volume, you don't even have that many muscles where you can shoot all this stuff into....

[abc123]

You would be suprised at the results you can get with that cycle, combined with proper nutrition, training and Milos' INS protocol. 

[El Diablo Blanco]

Milos, what's your honest opinion on supplements?  There's so much crap out there and fancy advertising that it's hard to sift through it all.

Somehow ephedra is banned yet you see a lot of supps with it.  Then there is that Tren extreme and extreme tren that claim to be one molecule away from being real tren.

I know that you have your own line and some science behind it but you're supps are basic, carbs, aminos and proteins.

There seems to be a lot of junk out there.  In reality please let us know if and what these pros really use.  I can't see Jay Cutler living off of Leukic or Gakic or any of that crap.  With a sound AAS cycle and balanced meals what do these supps really offer?

[Milos_Sarcev]

I will be hones and say thaT  I would use thAT cycle to prepare maybe for a show like Mr Getbig if the competition would be stiffer ...I believe that's a cycle that would put a guy like me at 85-87 kg max ripped.....given that all product is legit ...I'm 5'11" and without AAS and 8 % bodyfat I hover @ around 180 lbs.

However :

I do not believe for a single minute that a cycle like that would be appropriate for a serious competitor. Test alone would have to be @ 1g plus a week and deca at at least 600 .

For a professional, in my oppinion test is probably at around 3g-5g a week . To say the least...maybe 8-10 g AAS a week total. Not saying that Milos is wrong or lying , just that I believe that the amounts are much higher.

By the way I am speaking both from personal expirience and from working with a top 10 olympia bodybuilder.


This is me clean @ 182 lbs and 8 % bf...I look more defined than I really am because of lightning and slight dehydration. I have used AAS in the past, competed and was much bigger.

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about it...

I do not believe for a single minute that a cycle like that would be appropriate for a serious competitor. Test alone would have to be @ 1g plus a week and deca at at least 600 .

For a professional, in my oppinion test is probably at around 3g-5g a week . To say the least...maybe 8-10 g AAS a week total. Not saying that Milos is wrong or lying , just that I believe that the amounts are much higher. ?


You do not believe for a single minute?

And from personal experience working with ONE (who exactly? ) top ten Olympia competitor?

I have been working with dozens, consulting with hundreds and talking with thousands COMPETITORS from elite Olympia level, IFBB professional and amateur,NPC...and than EVERY OTHER category...(NABBA, WABA, WPF, AAU, NPC, ABC, XYZ...Federations and number of their competitors...)

Can anyone tell me a SINGLE VALID REASON why would I choose to "fabricate" these amounts IF in reality I suggest and believe should be taken much more?

Now, I do know ONE PERSON who would do that (purposely fabricate a story and tell people what they want to believe anyway...and who is better for that than BODYBUILDERS?)...but I am not him...

[Cleanest Natural]

Ron Love is the guy Milos. I am not saying you are lying . I'm just saying that you are the only serious authority on the subject who is trying to convince me that a pro is on 750 mg test a week  .

Or under 2 gram AAS a week total.... And don't try to discredit me by saying that I was never a pro .... I have been bodybuilding and involved with it for 17 years so I have a pretty good idea about what's going on.

[El Diablo Blanco]

Ron Love is the guy Milos. I am not saying you are lying . I'm just saying that you are the only serious authority on the subject who is trying to convince me that a pro is on 750 mg test a week  .

Or under 2 gram AAS a week total.... And don't try to discredit me by saying that I was never a pro .... I have been bodybuilding and involved with it for 17 years so I have a pretty good idea about what's going on.

You're stuck in a time warp.  A decade ago the pros were taking a ton of crap but realized they were pissing their money down the toilet and learned that you cannot infinitely grow based on how much juice you injected.  Coupled today with Insulin and GH the amount of test is a lot lower.

Still do the math

Test Prop 50-100 mg/day alternate with Test Heptylate 50-100 mg day (500-700 mg/week)
Trenbolon Acetate (200 mg/week)
Primobolan (500 mg/week)
Anadrol (3 x 25 mg/day)
Winstrol tabs (3 x 15 mg/day)

You got here about 3 grams a week.  Most bodybuilders have learned that more isn't better.

[Cleanest Natural]

still you are trying to convince me that all these pro's and top amateurs on 3-5 g test a week , 1-2 g deca or equipoise, 20-30 iu hgh a day, and 80-150 iu slin.....they could be as big and ripped with only the amounts Milos has given ? Listen to yourself bro 

[candidizzle]

still you are trying to convince me that all these pro's and top amateurs on 3-5 g test a week , 1-2 g deca or equipoise, 20-30 iu hgh a day, and 80-150 iu slin.....they could be as big and ripped with only the amounts Milos has given ? Listen to yourself bro 

sevastase me and you both know that there are plenty of guys out there who are taking in extreme excess of those doseages milos listed.

but we cant be sure that every ifbb pro is doing the same.

sean ray is one pro who we know used small amounts of steroids. phil heath, while we dont know how MUCH he uses, we do know that he has tremendous RESPONSE to hormones. since we know certain individuals respond better than other individuals, it does lead one to conclude that there would be guys who can get just as big off 2 g week than another guy could get off 10 g week......  if these top pro's really are the genetic elite and really have great repsonse and are truly dedicated to training and nutrition and on top of the few g aas are using slin and gh ? then sure i could believe those doseages

but me and you both know that not EVERY pro has phenomenal genetics and response to hormones, and not EVERY pro is super dedictaed to diet training and insulin+gh

[MCWAY]

Milos, what's your honest opinion on supplements?  There's so much crap out there and fancy advertising that it's hard to sift through it all.

Somehow ephedra is banned yet you see a lot of supps with it.  Then there is that Tren extreme and extreme tren that claim to be one molecule away from being real tren.

I know that you have your own line and some science behind it but you're supps are basic, carbs, aminos and proteins.

There seems to be a lot of junk out there.  In reality please let us know if and what these pros really use.  I can't see Jay Cutler living off of Leukic or Gakic or any of that crap.  With a sound AAS cycle and balanced meals what do these supps really offer?

Cutler never claimed to live off Gakic or Leukic. He’s pretty much laid out how and what he eats (he tends to be a heavy carb guy). If the supplements help him in any capacity, why wouldn’t he use them, especially since he gets them for FREE?


Milos once sang the praises of MET-Rx (as did many bodybuilders in the mid-90s) in an interview he did with MuscleMag, issue 172, I think. Of course, he also qualified his praises by stating that he consumed anywhere from 8 to 12 packets a day.

And speaking of supplements, that leads me back to the questions I asked a few days ago.

1) Regarding giant sets and the shakes he recommends during training, is this primarily for use with "giant set" training? Or will such use be as effective with traditional training?

2) Regarding my cheap version of the shake:

- 2 fl. oz liquid aminos (Vitamin Shoppe),
- 5-6 grams creatine with dextrose (Body Fortress or CELL-TECH)
- 5 grams glutamine (Vitamin Shoppe)

Any suggestions about improvement?

[Van_Bilderass]

Guys, this isn't such a light cycle - I believe it. That's a lot of Winstrol week 11  1050mg    During the same week you also have 420mg of oxandrolone and 210mg of fluoxymesterone for a total of 1690mg of liver toxic compounds. My liver hurts just thinking about it. 


If you were to take the equivalent dose of stanozolol in Zambon Winstrol tabs it comes out to 525 tablets in one week. Not even Munzer was that crazy LOL.