Author Topic: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?  (Read 41058 times)

wavelength

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #125 on: August 24, 2008, 03:50:45 PM »
"God does NOT play dice with the Universe."
  - Albert Einstein

Well he was wrong on that one, at least scientifically. He never accepted quantum theory resp. the uncertainty principle.

arce377

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #126 on: August 24, 2008, 03:55:41 PM »
Quantum mechanics is certainly imposing. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory says a LOT, but does NOT really bring us ANY closer to the SECRET of the 'OLD ONE'. I, at ANY rate, am convinced, that He does NOT throw dice.




    * Letter to Max Born (4 December 1926); The Born-Einstein Letters (translated by Irene Born) (Walker and Company, New York, 1971) ISBN 0-8027-0326-7. This quote is commonly paraphrased "God does not play dice" or "God does not play dice with the universe", and many other slight variants.
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arce377

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #127 on: August 24, 2008, 03:57:19 PM »



:D
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wavelength

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #128 on: August 24, 2008, 03:58:54 PM »
Quantum mechanics is certainly imposing. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory says a lot, but does NOT really bring us any closer to the secret of the 'old one'. I, at any rate, am convinced, that He does NOT throw dice.

    * Letter to Max Born (4 December 1926); The Born-Einstein Letters (translated by Irene Born) (Walker and Company, New York, 1971) ISBN 0-8027-0326-7. This quote is commonly paraphrased "God does not play dice" or "God does not play dice with the universe", and many other slight variants.

Of course not and I'm pretty sure that Einstein didn't really mean it that way. He just wanted to emphasize his objection. No scientific theory will ever say anything about the existence of God, that's outside the scientific scope.

arce377

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #129 on: August 24, 2008, 04:01:59 PM »
 Albert was SURE...that EVEN IF GOD OR GODS DID, DO, AND OR WILL EXIST...THAT HE, THEY WOULD NOT PLAY DICE. THEY WOULD NOT GAMBLE. THEY WOULD NOT SHOOT CRAPS. SHOOTING CRAPS WITH OUR LIVES. Babies dying of disease, murder, war, evil, innocents dying for NO reason...the killing and murdering in the name of God...NAH. NO God would do this evil and wicked shit. Cause us misery and laugh at us as if we were dice in an alley game of street craps. Fuck that bull shit. And IF he is and does...then FUCK HIM. FUCK CROM.
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arce377

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #130 on: August 24, 2008, 04:03:10 PM »
Conan:

Crom, I have NEVER prayed to you before. I have NO tongue for it. NO one, NOT even you, will remember if we were good men, or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. ALL that matters, is that two stood against MANY! That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Crom... So grant me ONE request! Grant me revenge! And if you do NOT listen, then to HELL with you!



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QuakerOats

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #131 on: August 24, 2008, 04:03:56 PM »
ttt

wavelength

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #132 on: August 24, 2008, 04:04:39 PM »
Albert was SURE...that EVEN IF GOD OR GODS DID, DO, AND OR WILL EXIST...THAT HE, THEY WOULD NOT PLAY DICE. THEY WOULD NOT GAMBLE. THEY WOULD NOT SHOOT CRAPS. SHOOTING CRAPS WITH OUR LIVES. Babies dying of disease, murder, war, evil, innocents dying for NO reason...the killing and murdering in the name of God...NAH. NO God would do this evil and wicked shit. Cause us misery and laugh at us as if we were dice in an alley game of street craps. Fuck that bull shit. And IF he is and does...then FUCK HIM. FUCK KROM.

Yes maybe he said that too, but that has nothing to do with quantum theory or the uncertainty principle (which are just scientific concepts). If he thought there is a connection, which I doubt, he was wrong. At least that's my opinion.

arce377

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #133 on: August 24, 2008, 04:05:45 PM »
Albert and Conan are saying (this is for mentally retarded people)...IF GOD IS REAL...THEN FUCK HIM.
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dr.chimps

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #134 on: August 24, 2008, 04:52:47 PM »
Albert was SURE...that EVEN IF GOD OR GODS DID, DO, AND OR WILL EXIST...THAT HE, THEY WOULD NOT PLAY DICE. THEY WOULD NOT GAMBLE. THEY WOULD NOT SHOOT CRAPS. SHOOTING CRAPS WITH OUR LIVES. Babies dying of disease, murder, war, evil, innocents dying for NO reason...the killing and murdering in the name of God...NAH. NO God would do this evil and wicked shit. Cause us misery and laugh at us as if we were dice in an alley game of street craps. Fuck that bull shit. And IF he is and does...then FUCK HIM. FUCK CROM.
Umm. Some private correspondence of Einstein's was recently auctioned, and what he said therein about religion belies all his public statements - ie. religion is bunk, and the Jews are no more the 'Chosen People' than anyone else, etc.  ;)

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #135 on: August 24, 2008, 04:54:23 PM »
Albert and Conan are saying (this is for mentally retarded people)...IF GOD IS REAL...THEN FUCK HIM.

 :D -

yeah considering his ongoing shitty resume to date - little kids starving thoughout the world while the ultra rich conspire to grab another slice for themselves. Disaster/plagues/wholesale slaughter of innocents.

If this is the best God can do -I'm not impressed

dr.chimps

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #136 on: August 24, 2008, 04:57:58 PM »
:D -

yeah considering his ongoing shitty resume to date - little kids starving thoughout the world while the ultra rich conspire to grab another slice for themselves. Disaster/plagues/wholesale slaughter of innocents.

If this is the best God can do -I'm not impressed
Hah! I'm not naming names *cough* Coach *cough* but if God exists do you think he'd be be impressed with those who profess to follow his tenets?  ;)

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #137 on: August 24, 2008, 04:58:50 PM »
I used to be an altar boy.  Those priests really know how to push ya, do'nt they? 




Seriously, I believe in prayer.  Something happened in 2nd grade and from that minute fwd, I KNEW the conversations I had with the maker (the power behind us, not a man in a beard and robe, but something more energy-based) changed external things in my environment consistently.

Thay are drunken, nasty guys in my old parish

Bast000

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #138 on: August 24, 2008, 04:59:28 PM »
praying is gay

The True Adonis

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #139 on: August 24, 2008, 04:59:36 PM »
Umm. Some private correspondence of Einstein's was recently auctioned, and what he said therein about religion belies all his public statements - ie. religion is bunk, and the Jews are no more the 'Chosen People' than anyone else, etc.  ;)

Childish superstition: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear
Scientist's reply to sell for up to £8,000, and stoke debate over his beliefs



"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." So said Albert Einstein, and his famous aphorism has been the source of endless debate between believers and non-believers wanting to claim the greatest scientist of the 20th century as their own.

A little known letter written by him, however, may help to settle the argument - or at least provoke further controversy about his views.

Due to be auctioned this week in London after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, the document leaves no doubt that the theoretical physicist was no supporter of religious beliefs, which he regarded as "childish superstitions".

Einstein penned the letter on January 3 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt. The letter went on public sale a year later and has remained in private hands ever since.

In the letter, he states: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

Einstein, who was Jewish and who declined an offer to be the state of Israel's second president, also rejected the idea that the Jews are God's favoured people.


"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

The letter will go on sale at Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair on Thursday and is expected to fetch up to £8,000. The handwritten piece, in German, is not listed in the source material of the most authoritative academic text on the subject, Max Jammer's book Einstein and Religion.

One of the country's leading experts on the scientist, John Brooke of Oxford University, admitted he had not heard of it.

Einstein is best known for his theories of relativity and for the famous E=mc2 equation that describes the equivalence of mass and energy, but his thoughts on religion have long attracted conjecture.

His parents were not religious but he attended a Catholic primary school and at the same time received private tuition in Judaism. This prompted what he later called, his "religious paradise of youth", during which he observed religious rules such as not eating pork. This did not last long though and by 12 he was questioning the truth of many biblical stories.

"The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression," he later wrote.

In his later years he referred to a "cosmic religious feeling" that permeated and sustained his scientific work. In 1954, a year before his death, he spoke of wishing to "experience the universe as a single cosmic whole". He was also fond of using religious flourishes, in 1926 declaring that "He [God] does not throw dice" when referring to randomness thrown up by quantum theory.


Dreadlord

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #140 on: August 24, 2008, 05:01:07 PM »
Hah! I'm not naming names *cough* Coach *cough* but if God exists do you think he'd be be impressed with those who profess to follow his tenets?  ;)

That's a classic Carlin Quote that i used.

Well considering his track record thus far i don't think he's in any position to pass "judgment"  ;D

dr.chimps

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #141 on: August 24, 2008, 05:01:58 PM »
Thanks TA. I'm feeling a bit lazy tonight.  ;)

Dreadlord

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #142 on: August 24, 2008, 05:09:05 PM »
In the letter, he states: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

Very well stated- probably should have thrown in the Koran for good measure

bigbadwolfe

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #143 on: August 24, 2008, 05:57:21 PM »
We had a Prayer Request box at the Old Powerhouse Gym I use to train at. The owner was BIG time religious so one day I put in a prayer request in for a bigger bench. They did not find much humor in my request and told me God was not worried about my bench :(  Oh Well it was funny as hell to me :)

I use to walk by Faith not by Sight, Fukk man now I walk by sight and dont have any faith!!! Religion is BS if I'm wrong so be it at least my spirit will have a nice tan. Christians always tell me you have to have faith. I ask for proof of a God and they say you have to have faith. FAITH FAITH FAITH in my God????

Tell me those MotherFukkers who crashed the planes in to the Twin Towers and the Pentagon did not have faith in there religion. Do you think they got what they had faith in? Ohh no prolly not cause they were'nt praying to an AWESOME GOD!!!!  WTF EVER!!!!! 

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #144 on: August 24, 2008, 06:12:04 PM »
 the temporal lobe does in fact have a god spot and i have read the books published by the champions of neurotheology. Its pretty obvious comforting beliefs have organic benefits, and a faith based area makes sense. However it doesnt rule out the reality of the religious experience and seems to lend credence to the faithful in some manner. Obviously if god was to communicate with us he would have to do so via the brain, which is exactly what we find. Some people see it the other way like me, but the books on neurotheology are quite interesting. The OAA area of the brain is a controversial area also and relates to mystical experience which is another interesting find via imaging methods. Its action is to set the boundaries of the phyical body, or the sensation there of. With deactivation a ONENESS can be felt as sensation superceeds the phyiscal boundary of the skin.

religion is stupid, spirituality is not imo to an extent although i am neither.

answering parmenides question of why something rather then nothing is paramount to the discussion of existence imo, and is one of the only valuable why questions one can ask.

arce377

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #145 on: August 24, 2008, 06:14:28 PM »
 Cheesy -

  Yeah considering his ongoing shitty resume to date - little kids starving thoughout the world while the ultra rich conspire to grab another slice for themselves. Disaster/plagues/wholesale slaughter of innocents.

If this is the BEST God can do -I'm NOT impressed

^

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #146 on: August 24, 2008, 06:16:22 PM »
Cheesy -

  Yeah considering his ongoing shitty resume to date - little kids starving thoughout the world while the ultra rich conspire to grab another slice for themselves. Disaster/plagues/wholesale slaughter of innocents.

If this is the BEST God can do -I'm NOT impressed

^

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!


It's all part of god's ultimate plan. Make most everyone suffer on Earth, and then send 'em to hell for eternity......
HAHA, RON.....

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #147 on: August 24, 2008, 06:23:27 PM »

It's all part of god's ultimate plan. Make most everyone suffer on Earth, and then send 'em to hell for eternity......


his is all perfect and all knowing how dare you question his torture

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2008, 06:26:07 PM »
his is all perfect and all knowing how dare you question his torture

But he loves us! We're all his children......


You know, who wouldn't punish their children by sending them to a burning pit of fire, for all eternity?
HAHA, RON.....

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Re: How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?
« Reply #149 on: August 24, 2008, 06:30:48 PM »
his is all perfect and all knowing how dare you question his torture
I am glad you finally have seen the light.  ;D  I remember that it wasn`t too long ago you were a God Believer and wanted to debate me on religion.  You were even adamant about the existence of an imaginary god.

That was about a year ago.  I am glad you have changed.