For a natural - no point to eat more than 60g's or protein/day

[tbombz]

u have made valid points, i concur. However, you cannot disregard the very true fact that there are tons of high school kids/college kids/ non-pro athletes in general that are lucky to get in 2 or 3 meals of day.This may consists of Poptarts, hamburgers, or pasta, AND they DO have muscular builds above that of a 140lb twink. look at the pics i posted. I realize they arent jay cutler, BUT, give them credit at least they are significantly above average

Well unless your one of those kids with superstar genetics then your thread title "For a natural - no point to eat more than 60g's or protein/day" doesnt apply.  


..and yes i do envy those people who can look great on crap food and minimal training. (however i think the # of NATURAL genetic phenomenons is quite exaggerated.)

[ASJChaotic]

EXACTLY. Look, if u have been juicing for years and have competed, then YES, it is necessary to eat just like they say in magazines.
But, like u said, there are plenty of prisoners/high school linebackers that are pretty damn jacked. I guarantee u they arent eating every 2.5 hours of 30g's protein/50g carbs.

I know people who take twice as much as steroid users
not even realizing that people on steroids have increased PROTEIN SYNTHESIS
meaning they can build more muscle and use more protein for all you uneducated people... 
Lee Haney barely got 1 gram Per pound even being on steroids and last I checked he won a couple of olympias

[ASJChaotic]

EXACTLY. Look, if u have been juicing for years and have competed, then YES, it is necessary to eat just like they say in magazines.
But, like u said, there are plenty of prisoners/high school linebackers that are pretty damn jacked. I guarantee u they arent eating every 2.5 hours of 30g's protein/50g carbs.

I ask you not to give out any more secrets of us naturals who have experience with these things
and letting the noobs figure it out for themselves the hard way 
the way I had to 

[tbombz]

A teenager naturally functions about the same you would function if you went on about 250mg test per week.  Test inhibits cortisol and protein breakdown, increases protein synthesis, enhances nutrient partitioning, increases androgen receptor and satellite cell sensitivity and density....ect ect.  

Also most teens I know dont plan t eat alot of protein, but the foods they do eat alot of are naturally high in protein. Meat lovers pizza, Whoppers, Ribs, ..ect ect.  I think your underestimating their protein intake.

[tbombz]

I know people who take twice as much as steroid users
not even realizing that people on steroids have increased PROTEIN SYNTHESIS
meaning they can build more muscle and use more protein for all you uneducated people... 
Lee Haney barely got 1 gram Per pound even being on steroids and last I checked he won a couple of olympias

A natural trainee would need to eat more protein to gain 1 lb of muscle than an enhanced trainee would need to eat. As i mentioned before, AAS inhibits protein breakdown. 

[Harley Buckshot]

I ask you not to give out any more secrets of us naturals who have experience with these things
and letting the noobs figure it out for themselves the hard way 
the way I had to 

hahaha man i wasted so much damn money/time on tuna and oatmeal in high school i would bring chicken/rice to lunch everyday hahha what a queer i was

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

why mirrior image your flaws onto the board due to your low protein intake?

say you test two groups over the course of 1 year... conditions are as ideal as possible (both naturals- as obviously juicers must intake much protein)

group a-50g's/year
group b-250g's

-starting at same bodyfat levels and same weight
-both have same diet/workout routine except a protein difference (Ex: carbs and fat intake are same)

I would not expect their to be exceptionally MORE muscle on the person who at 250g's

there are A LOT more people on this planet that eat a "normal diet" and have great looking bodies than their are people who eat typical "bb diets" consisting of 7 chicken breasts/2 lbs of steak a day

Im NOT referring to male runway models, like i said - athletes that workout hard but just dont eat stupid protein amounts

like THIS guy

think about all the baseball, football, basketball etc etc players out there that workout hard and have killer bodies... i guarantee u they ate a "normal" (relatively speaking) diet

[ASJChaotic]

hahaha man i wasted so much damn money/time on tuna and oatmeal in high school i would bring chicken/rice to lunch everyday hahha what a queer i was

I FUCKING HATE TUNA  
I used to choke down cans of it, and wash it down with water to get my "daily protein intake"
tasted like shit, and smelled like shit
then I switched to chicken and turkey boobies  
and I get 1 breast a day with is enough for me, the rest is all what people call "junk"
they are obese with their "clean diets" and I'll be around 4-5% bodyfat in 3 weeks  

[ASJChaotic]

hahaha man i wasted so much damn money/time on tuna and oatmeal in high school i would bring chicken/rice to lunch everyday hahha what a queer i was

oh and all these people around the world who think you need to eat more calories to put on muscle
don't you tell them they are wrong or I swear I'll kill you myself 
  the more people look like shit, the better we will look

[ASJChaotic]

A natural trainee would need to eat more protein to gain 1 lb of muscle than an enhanced trainee would need to eat. As i mentioned before, AAS inhibits protein breakdown. 

actually a steroid taker needs more protein because their body can handle more protein
so you got it backwards 


a steroid taker can gain 20 pounds of muscle in 2 weeks
that's 1600 grams more ON TOP of what they already need day to day

[tbombz]

actually a steroid taker needs more protein because their body can handle more protein
so you got it backwards 


a steroid taker can gain 20 pounds of muscle in 2 weeks
that's 1600 grams more ON TOP of what they already need day to day

I'm sorry you are incorrect.

A steroid user can synthesize protein at an accelerated rate- yes. BUT, a steroid user also breaksdown protein at a much SLOWER rate than a natural.

So, to gain 1 lb of muscle, a steroid user must eat enough amino acids to synthesize 1lb muscle. However, a natural must eat enough protein to make up for the natural protein breakdown process, and then on top of that enough protein to build 1lb muscle.



________________________ _______________________


Like I told you before - A natural trainee would need to eat more protein to gain 1 lb of muscle than an enhanced trainee would need to eat.

[ASJChaotic]

I'm sorry you are incorrect.

A steroid user can synthesize protein at an accelerated rate- yes. BUT, a steroid user also breaksdown protein at a much SLOWER rate than a natural.

So, to gain 1 lb of muscle, a steroid user must eat enough amino acids to synthesize 1lb muscle. However, a natural must eat enough protein to make up for the natural protein breakdown process, and then on top of that enough protein to build 1lb muscle.



________________________ _______________________


Like I told you before - A natural trainee would need to eat more protein to gain 1 lb of muscle than an enhanced trainee would need to eat.

true, CATABOLISM does occur faster and more in a naturals but it's protein TURNOVER not complete loss of muscle
...how many grams would you say a natural should eat per day?

[tbombz]

true, CATABOLISM does occur faster and more in a naturals but it's protein TURNOVER not complete loss of muscle
...how many grams would you say a natural should eat per day?

Depends on carbohydrate and fat intake (more so carbohydrate intake), and also depends on goal-in-mind (ups to milos), shredding or building.

a good number to start off at is 2.2 grams per kg of LBM.  Or lets just call it one gram of high quality protein per pound total bodyweight. 

[ASJChaotic]

Depends on carbohydrate and fat intake (more so carbohydrate intake), and also depends on goal-in-mind (ups to milos), shredding or building.

a good number to start off at is 2.2 grams per kg of LBM.  Or lets just call it one gram of high quality protein per pound total bodyweight. 

carbs and fat intake are part of the "calories" nothing to do with protein intake
if you want to make up for calories sure
thats a gram per pound of bodyweight right? "the general rule"
well, I have never consumed that much protein in my life on a daily basis unless I was eating 15,000 fifteen thousand calories which I do on somedays
just for fun
I have been doing it all wrong for all this time? 
well....I don't think so 
Lou Ferrigno gets only 150 grams of protein a day, he is 270 pounds AND on steroids 

[tbombz]

carbs and fat intake are part of the "calories" nothing to do with protein intake
if you want to make up for calories sure
thats a gram per pound of bodyweight right? "the general rule"
well, I have never consumed that much protein in my life on a daily basis unless I was eating 15,000 fifteen thousand calories which I do on somedays
just for fun
I have been doing it all wrong for all this time? 
well....I don't think so 
Lou Ferrigno gets only 150 grams of protein a day, he is 270 pounds AND on steroids 

Carbs and fats do play a role in optimal protein intake.

 If your carbs are low, you'll be converting more amino acids into glucose. which means you'll need a higher protein intake to cover gluconeogensis. if carbs are high, you'll have higher insulin and less need to convert amino acids into glucose. which means you'll need less total protein throughout the day.

Fats are a different beast. Certain fats are protein sparing by nature, the essential fatty acids. all of these are protein sparing = Omega 3, omega , omega 9... and in that order. with more of them, less protein is needed. with less of them, more protein is needed. Other fats might not be protein sparing, in essence, but saturated fats do promote testosterone synthesis, so one could argue that increasing saturated fat intake is also inversely proportional to protein demands as well.


________________________ ________________________ _

The fact that Lou eats 150g protein a day (which i honestly don't believe anyway, BUT) and still has big muscles is due to the fact that steroids usage means less protein demand.

[DOGGCRAPP]

Couple questions for the guys on the thread talking about 60 grams of protein a day....

1) How come the very same prisoners and linebackers you talk about eating low protein (like you) are much much bigger and muscular than you are? Is it because your confusing the genetic elite with an equation?

2) What would happen to these prisoners and linebackers if they actually did eat adequate amount of protein with their weight training?

3) How come almost to the tee....every seriously large bodybuilder in the last 30 years have taken in 1.5 to 2.0 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight yet some guys on Getbig say not to because of various personal reasons and opinions they as individuals have? Should we go with those 1000's who have "been there done that" or with what 5 outspoken guys on Getbig have to say?

[Camel Jockey]

Football players actually EAT a lot.. Probably get around 150g of protein a day at the minimum because they tend to eat a lot of meat in form of burgers and other high calorie stuff

[TechnoViking]

Couple questions for the guys on the thread talking about 60 grams of protein a day....

1) How come the very same prisoners and linebackers you talk about eating low protein (like you) are much much bigger and muscular than you are? Is it because your confusing the genetic elite with an equation?

2) What would happen to these prisoners and linebackers if they actually did eat adequate amount of protein with their weight training?

3) How come almost to the tee....every seriously large bodybuilder in the last 30 years have taken in 1.5 to 2.0 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight yet some guys on Getbig say not to because of various personal reasons and opinions they as individuals have? Should we go with those 1000's who have "been there done that" or with what 5 outspoken guys on Getbig have to say?

says the man who sell protein for a living

[DOGGCRAPP]

says the man who sell protein for a living

What the heck does that have to do with anything? Ok let me make the stipulation then to make Technoviking happy

a) if you do use protein powders please please please dont buy them from my business partner and my company (in which i wont even say the name so if you dont know already...great!),  buy them from bodybuilding.com or some other company.

b) or rather get your protein from food sources

so with that said......back on subject.....

[TechnoViking]

What the heck does that have to do with anything? Ok let me make the stipulation then to make Technoviking happy

a) if you do use protein powders please please please dont buy them from my business partner and my company (in which i wont even say the name so if you dont know already...great!),  buy them from bodybuilding.com or some other company.

b) or rather get your protein from food sources


Relax bro it was a  joke...

so with that said......back on subject.....

[James Phoenix]

There are two primary types of people that bodybuild:

Casual trainers and competitors.

For someone that is competing at the very highest level of competition, micromanagement of nutrient intake is important.
(The same way water temperature and body suits can break records at Olympic swimming competitions)

For casual trainers it's not necessary to micromanage.
Eat a lot of food with high protein and low fat; train hard and consistently.
To be sure, you will soon develop a respectable set of t-shit muscles.

This keeping track of gram intake per day business is silliness.
One wonders if, this type of personality is looking for a nutritional formulae that will give them an edge,
because of their reluctance to admit inferior genetics for work ethic and muscle.

And if you are a casual (non-competitive) bodybuilder that juices, just increase your dope intake and don't train hard.

[just_a_pilgrim]

What the heck does that have to do with anything? Ok let me make the stipulation then to make Technoviking happy

a) if you do use protein powders please please please dont buy them from my business partner and my company (in which i wont even say the name so if you dont know already...great!),  buy them from bodybuilding.com or some other company.

b) or rather get your protein from food sources

so with that said......back on subject.....

I'm only quoting this because it has worked and made a lot of sense to me but on professionalmuscle.com a lot of guys including Phil Hernon do follow the eat when you're hungrey routine and i doubt they are getting 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight every day.

I don't believe you need even 1 gram per pound, i think as long as the protein consumption is consistent you will have enough to grow. eg. if you ate 25 grams every 3 hours is eating 45 grams every 3 hours going to make a difference? In my opinion no.

This is a pretty decent thread not too different to some seen on PM but it seems you went after it because 'Should we go with those 1000's who have "been there done that" or with what 5 outspoken guys on Getbig have to say?'

[ASJChaotic]

Couple questions for the guys on the thread talking about 60 grams of protein a day....

1) How come the very same prisoners and linebackers you talk about eating low protein (like you) are much much bigger and muscular than you are? Is it because your confusing the genetic elite with an equation?

2) What would happen to these prisoners and linebackers if they actually did eat adequate amount of protein with their weight training?

3) How come almost to the tee....every seriously large bodybuilder in the last 30 years have taken in 1.5 to 2.0 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight yet some guys on Getbig say not to because of various personal reasons and opinions they as individuals have? Should we go with those 1000's who have "been there done that" or with what 5 outspoken guys on Getbig have to say?

I'm guessing you are the person who invented "doggcrapp" training protocal?
we won't get into too much detail on what I think about your system, cuz that's a different story, this is about protein intake.......
1......who said they were bigger and more muscular? and since they are in their 30's and been doing this for about 10-15 years and I'm only 19 and been working out for 1 year should'nt they be more muscular?
2......taking in protein doesn't SPEED UP muscle growth, the body can only use a certain amount of protein and the rest is either urinated or saved as bodyfat, if it did americans would be muscular instead of fat from all those whoppers and bigmacs
3......you can be a sheep and follow the herd or you can follow science, remember when guys in the 70's trained for 6 hours a day and didn't know anything about steroid usage? not many of todays bodybuilders are doing that

why does a person need huge amounts of protein to grow muscle?
working out builds muscle not excess protein intake

how many pounds of muscle did you gain last year?
I highly doubt even 10 pounds
10 pounds of muscle a year would equal to only 2.7 EXTRA grams of protein per day

and I bet you got more than ten times that amount EVERYDAY

If you enjoy eating protein and if it makes you feel better or what ever please do
but don't do it because you're "required"

what are you gonna tell me next?
1 set per muscle is as effective as 5 sets for muscle growth?
oh wait...you already did  

[DOGGCRAPP]

I'm only quoting this because it has worked and made a lot of sense to me but on professionalmuscle.com a lot of guys including Phil Hernon do follow the eat when you're hungrey routine and i doubt they are getting 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight every day.

I don't believe you need even 1 gram per pound, i think as long as the protein consumption is consistent you will have enough to grow. eg. if you ate 25 grams every 3 hours is eating 45 grams every 3 hours going to make a difference? In my opinion no.

This is a pretty decent thread not too different to some seen on PM but it seems you went after it because 'Should we go with those 1000's who have "been there done that" or with what 5 outspoken guys on Getbig have to say?'

Question: Is that what Phil does now or is that what Phil did back in the late 80's and 90's when he got up to his top size? Alot of bodybuilders forget what they did to reach their top size...case in point Nasser....preaching how he only eats 100 grams of protein a day at the end of his career....yet he was right in there with the 400-550 grams group earlier in his career when he was trying to set the standard for muscle mass onstage

[DOGGCRAPP]

I'm guessing you are the person who invented "doggcrapp" training protocal?
we won't get into too much detail on what I think about your system, cuz that's a different story, this is about protein intake.......
1......who said they were bigger and more muscular? and since they are in their 30's and been doing this for about 10-15 years and I'm only 19 and been working out for 1 year should'nt they be more muscular?
2......taking in protein doesn't SPEED UP muscle growth, the body can only use a certain amount of protein and the rest is either urinated or saved as bodyfat, if it did americans would be muscular instead of fat from all those whoppers and bigmacs
3......you can be a sheep and follow the herd or you can follow science, remember when guys in the 70's trained for 6 hours a day and didn't know anything about steroid usage? not many of todays bodybuilders are doing that

why does a person need huge amounts of protein to grow muscle?
working out builds muscle not excess protein intake

how many pounds of muscle did you gain last year?
I highly doubt even 10 pounds
10 pounds of muscle a year would equal to only 2.7 EXTRA grams of protein per day

and I bet you got more than ten times that amount EVERYDAY

If you enjoy eating protein and if it makes you feel better or what ever please do
but don't do it because you're "required"

what are you gonna tell me next?
1 set per muscle is as effective as 5 sets for muscle growth?
oh wait...you already did  

Im not even going to bother bro, I kind of caught a glimpse of your act on this board already and your reputation precedes you as someone who doesnt have an iota of reality in his reasoning