THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN

[headhuntersix]

He's what 24-26...years ago. 

[The True Adonis]

I live ten minutes from Port Chester.  Do a little research on the place, it is a sanctuary city and filled with illegal aliens.  The place resembles Mexico City more than anything.  

I posted an article which said that teh hosdital and greenwich hospital was losing millions a year to these free loaders.  the hospital called it "charity care".    

You posted an article that states they are losing 7-8 million dollars, ( A tiny, tiny amount when considering a hospitals revenue and budget costs) due to Lack of medical Insurance.  Put it this way, MUCH MUCH MUCH more money is lost by misdiagnosis  Illegal or not, THE PROBLEM is lack of coverage.

[Soul Crusher]

You posted an article that states they are losing 7-8 million dollars, ( A tiny, tiny amount when considering a hospitals revenue and budget costs) due to Lack of medical Insurance.  Put it this way, MUCH MUCH MUCH more money is lost by misdiagnosis  Illegal or not, THE PROBLEM is lack of coverage.

Only in your liberal dream world is it ok for a business to lose 60,000 a week and up because of illegal aliens. 

[headhuntersix]

I think u miss the entire point..I'm not paying for ur medical coverage...I'm not paying for some mexican's coverage...I'll pay my bills based on what I buy or want. Uncle Sam has no business getting into this. If u really want this kind of coverage u can move. National healthcare is a joke. If it was so woinderful Barry O would be pushing for it out of the gate, unlike this gradual bs that he's pushing.

[The True Adonis]

I think u miss the entire point..I'm not paying for ur medical coverage...I'm not paying for some mexican's coverage...I'll pay my bills based on what I buy or want. Uncle Sam has no business getting into this. If u really want this kind of coverage u can move. National healthcare is a joke. If it was so woinderful Barry O would be pushing for it out of the gate, unlike this gradual bs that he's pushing.

Not true at all. He is pushing for Universal Healthcare.  IT works like this- The same system that is in place now remains, but there is an additional Public option available for anyone if they want to take it.  IT will operate like Medicare.  Therefore "the free market" will be free to decide.  Insurance companies then will decide how they want to compete with the Medicare option as they do now for Seniors.

Here is the plan. Please watch so you will be able to know what his proposal is:

[headhuntersix]

Ah TA let me make this simple.....employers will drop private healthcare plans because the Gov will pick up the employees'. These plans will mostly dry up and in 4-5 years we have a broken UK style healthcare system that I'm paying for. I understand the argument, I think i understand it better then u. Its amazing how u phrase these condescending posts like the rest of us are idiots and ur the only one who really knows whats going on.

[a_joker10]

Modeling anything off of Norway is not a good idea.
Since they make most of their money off of a government controlled oil company.

Socialism only works when you have a way to make up for the spending increases that can't be increased through taxes.

Like natural resources.

The US imports more than it exports and will for the foreseeable future.

Socialism will kill the US because there is nothing to makeup for the increased spending except tax increases, which limits the productivity of the country.

[The True Adonis]

Modeling anything off of Norway is not a good idea.
Since they make most of their money off of a government controlled oil company.

Socialism only works when you have a way to make up for the spending increases that can't be increased through taxes.

Like natural resources.

The US imports more than it exports and will for the foreseeable future.

Socialism will kill the US because there is nothing to makeup for the increased spending except tax increases, which limits the productivity of the country.

Our GDP still is pretty strong.

[a_joker10]

Our GDP still is pretty strong.

America is an importing nation nothing will change that.

This is due the massive amount of oil imports the US requires and the fact that America won't deal with China pegging its currency to the US.
http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/getting_tough_with_china/
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/category/topicarticle.aspx?feed=PR&Date=20090303&ID=9662710&topic=TOPIC_ECONOMIC_INDICATORS&isub=3

What this means is that the US has to look at other ways of making money. This use to be accomplished through innovation.

Socialism does not help with innovation.

Which is what America needs for health care delivery.

[The True Adonis]

Ah TA let me make this simple.....employers will drop private healthcare plans because the Gov will pick up the employees'. These plans will mostly dry up and in 4-5 years we have a broken UK style healthcare system that I'm paying for. I understand the argument, I think i understand it better then u. Its amazing how u phrase these condescending posts like the rest of us are idiots and ur the only one who really knows whats going on.

What I am failing to grasp is the fact that you are willing to give your life for an illegal immigrant or even for the Iraqi government to be stable if that is the mission at hand, but when it comes to your money, you draw the line.  It gets even stranger as your taxes will not be raised one dime, (you in fact get a tax cut as you surely do not make over 250 grand in the military) therefore you aren`t being asked to pay any more than you are paying now. Simply money that is already there is going to be used for a program that is going to benefit the entire Nation morally as well as economically via healthy workers and lowered health costs.  You should investigate the link between health and productivity in nations per capita.

Also, on a side note.  You admit that you are less altruistic than I am, less caring of others and less concerned for complete strangers welfare and well being, yet I am the atheist and you are the Catholic.  Atheists always tend to have empathy as there are no barriers of hatred built up.

Looks like your religious beliefs are no where near my altruism.

[a_joker10]

What I am failing to grasp is the fact that you are willing to give your life for an illegal immigrant or even for the Iraqi government to be stable if that is the mission at hand, but when it comes to your money, you draw the line.  It gets even stranger as your taxes will not be raised one dime, (you in fact get a tax cut as you surely do not make over 250 grand in the military) therefore you aren`t being asked to pay any more than you are paying now. Simply money that is already there is going to be used for a program that is going to benefit the entire Nation morally as well as economically via healthy workers and lowered health costs.  You should investigate the link between health and productivity in nations per capita.

Also, on a side note.  You admit that you are less altruistic than I am, less caring of others and less concerned for complete strangers welfare and well being, yet I am the atheist and you are the Catholic.  Atheists always tend to have empathy as there are no barriers of hatred built up.

Looks like your religious beliefs are no where near my altruism.

FYI
www.minhac.es/ief/Publicaciones/Revistas/Hacienda%20Publica/
165/165_charitable.pdf

COUNTRY................P ER CAP. GIVING

Spain................... .......122
Belgium................. .......120
U.K..................... .......117
Netherlands............. .......110
Ireland................. .......100
France.................. ........74
Finland................. ........70
Austria................. ........50
Germany................. ........39
Hungary................. ........32
Slovakia................ ........25
Czech Republic................ ..25
Romania................. .........5

U.S..................... .......278


(NOTE:  amounts given are in Euros)


http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/allnewsbydate.asp?NewsID=1131

ROCHESTER, N.Y. and LONDON – December 20, 2006 – A Financial Times (FT)/Harris Poll conducted among adults in the United States and in five European countries (France, Italy, Germany, Great Britain and Spain) shows that Americans are more likely than Europeans to believe in any form of God or Supreme Being (73%). Of the European adults surveyed, Italians are the most likely to express this belief (62%) and, in contrast, the French are the least likely (27%).

Among those adults who stated they do have religious beliefs, almost two-thirds (62%) of Italians say they have the same religious beliefs as both their parents. In stark contrast, just under two in five (39%) British adults share the same religious beliefs as either of their parents. In the U.S. about half (48%) of adults who stated they have religious beliefs say they share the same as both of their parents.

This FT/Harris Poll was conducted online by Harris Interactive® among a total of 12,507 adults (aged 16 and over), within France (2,134); Germany (2,127); Great Britain (2,090); Spain (1,991); the United States (2,078), and Italy (2,087), aged 18 and over, between 30th November and 15th December 2006.

[shootfighter1]

Adonis, illegals (and people with no insurance who don't pay ER bills) are a huge drain on the system financially.  If you deny this, you have no idea of how much hospitals absorb these costs.  But...this wouldn't be worse under nationalized healthcare because these people would still receive services.  The key is to remove illegal aliens, prevent them from using services, or help them become citizens and pay taxes to support these services.  In an ER, you cannot deny care to anyone under the current system.

[shootfighter1]

Just to remind everyone again, its not 250K per individual, its per family (was mentioned in Adonis' post).  Thats a HUGE difference, particularly for married couples.  Two people work in most households.
For necessary funding for all of Obama's proposals, taxes will be raised on more than just families making 250K...the numbers do not add up.  Most of us will pay for these programs.  Thats why its important to slow down and keep things as lean as possible.  Thats my main problem with Obama right now, he is using the recession to push through all sorts of democratic programs funded from money that we absolutely don't have.  Its very likely we will eventually see responsive inflation, a massive debt increase, and more taxes on the middle and upper classes.

[The True Adonis]

FYI
www.minhac.es/ief/Publicaciones/Revistas/Hacienda%20Publica/
165/165_charitable.pdf

COUNTRY................P ER CAP. GIVING

Spain................... .......122
Belgium................. .......120
U.K..................... .......117
Netherlands............. .......110
Ireland................. .......100
France.................. ........74
Finland................. ........70
Austria................. ........50
Germany................. ........39
Hungary................. ........32
Slovakia................ ........25
Czech Republic................ ..25
Romania................. .........5

U.S..................... .......278


(NOTE:  amounts given are in Euros)


http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/allnewsbydate.asp?NewsID=1131

ROCHESTER, N.Y. and LONDON – December 20, 2006 – A Financial Times (FT)/Harris Poll conducted among adults in the United States and in five European countries (France, Italy, Germany, Great Britain and Spain) shows that Americans are more likely than Europeans to believe in any form of God or Supreme Being (73%). Of the European adults surveyed, Italians are the most likely to express this belief (62%) and, in contrast, the French are the least likely (27%).

Among those adults who stated they do have religious beliefs, almost two-thirds (62%) of Italians say they have the same religious beliefs as both their parents. In stark contrast, just under two in five (39%) British adults share the same religious beliefs as either of their parents. In the U.S. about half (48%) of adults who stated they have religious beliefs say they share the same as both of their parents.

This FT/Harris Poll was conducted online by Harris Interactive® among a total of 12,507 adults (aged 16 and over), within France (2,134); Germany (2,127); Great Britain (2,090); Spain (1,991); the United States (2,078), and Italy (2,087), aged 18 and over, between 30th November and 15th December 2006.

Not a very good representative statistic as there are many factors in regards to charity such as Standard of Living.  Higher standards of Living equate to to larger charitable donations for instance.  Also, there is a disproportionate amount of charitable donations among socioeconomic lines meaning, the poor who also may be the most religious, give less than the wealthy.

With that said, here are the 50 most charitable individuals in the United States.  Surprise, Surprise the majority are Atheists or Agnostics.


http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/philanthropy_individual/

Special Report: Philanthropy

Slide show: Top Givers and Their Causes

Table: Top Corporate Cash Givers

The 50 Most Generous Philanthropists

How We Create The List: To measure what donors have given or pledged over the past five years, a team of reporters spends months conducting interviews and scouring databases, news reports, and foundation filings. For consistency, we count pledges in full at the time they're announced, discounting only those that are formally revoked. If a gift is in stock, we value it at the time it's announced. To avoid double-counting, the survey counts gifts to foundations at the time they're given and not when the money flows out of foundations.

Click column heading once to reorder from highest to lowest. Click twice to reorder from lowest to highest.
Rank
   Name
   Background
   2003-07 GIVEN
OR PLEDGED (MILLIONS)
   Causes
   ESTIMATED LIFETIME
GIVING* (MILLIONS)
   NET WORTH**
(MILLIONS)
   GIVING AS A %
OF NET WORTH
1    Warren Buffett   Berkshire Hathaway CEO    40,650   Health, education, humanitarian causes    40,780    52,000    78
2    Bill and Melinda Gates   Microsoft co-founder    3,519   Global health and development, education    28,144    59,000    48
3    George Kaiser   Oil and gas, banking, real estate    2,271   Poverty in Oklahoma    2,522    11,000    23
4    George Soros   Investor    2,109   Open and democratic societies    6,401    8,800    73
5    Gordon and Betty Moore   Intel co-founder    2,067   Environment, science, San Fran. Bay area    7,404    4,500    165
6    Walton Family   Family of Wal-Mart founder    1,475   Education    2,015    82,500    2
7    Herbert and Marion Sandler   Golden West co-founders    1,368   Medical research, education, social reform    1,389    2,400    58
8    Eli and Edythe Broad   SunAmerica, KB Home founder    1,216   Public educ., arts, scientific and medical research    2,286    7,000    33
9    Donald Bren   Real estate developer    915   Education, conservation, research    1,326    13,000    10
10    Jon Huntsman   Huntsman chairman    800   Cancer, business education    1,233    1,900    65
11    Bernard Osher   Banking, investments    780   Arts, education, social services    805    900    89
12    Alfred Mann   Medical devices    698   Biomedical education and research    1,735    2,200    79
13    Michael and Susan Dell   Dell founder    674   Children's health, education    1,200    17,200    7
14    Michael Bloomberg   Bloomberg founder, NYC mayor    584   Health, education, arts, social services     1,045    11,500    9
15    David Rockefeller    Standard Oil heir, banking    562   Biomed research, global development, arts    937    2,700    35
16    Jeff Skoll   Founding president of eBay    560   Social entrepreneurs    744    3,500    21
17    T. Denny Sanford   Banking and credit cards    559   Science education, medical research    559    2,800    20
18    Veronica Atkins   Widow of Dr. Robert Atkins    519   Eradication of obesity and diabetes    519    60    865
19    John Templeton   Investor    514   Science about life's big questions    1,003    2,000    50
20    Robert Wilson   Investor    508   Environment    541    600    90
21    Pierre and Pam Omidyar   eBay chairman and founder    493   Unleashing human potential    657    8,900    7
22    T. Boone Pickens   Energy and investing    445   Higher education and athletics, health    445    3,000    15
23    Sandy and Joan Weill   Former Citigroup chairman, CEO    435   Education, healthcare, arts, social causes    800    1,800    44
24    John Kluge   Metromedia founder    401   Library of Congress, higher education    751    9,500    8
25    Ted Turner   CNN founder    389   Environment, global security    1,500    2,300    65
26    Lorry Lokey   Business Wire founder, chairman    373   Education, libraries, and culture    415    0    0
27    Kirk Kerkorian**   Investor    365   Humanitarian and Armenian causes    696    18,000    4
28    Shelby White**   Widow of investor Leon Levy    365   Ancient studies, arts, humanities    525    600    88
29    David Koch   Koch Industries EVP    364   Medical care, cancer, education    500    17,000    3
30    Bernard Marcus   Home Depot co-founder    351   Jewish causes, health, free enterprise, children    700    2,000    35
31    Irwin and Joan Jacobs   Qualcomm co-founder    330   Education, arts    627    1,600    39
32    Frank and Jane Batten   Landmark Comm. founder    314   Education, early childhood development    510    2,000    26
33    Robert Meyerhoff   Real estate developer    300   Arts, higher education    305    0    0
34    Paul Allen   Microsoft co-founder    283   Arts, health/human services, science    937    16,800    6
35    Oprah Winfrey   Harpo chairman    263   Education; women, children, and families    303    2,500    12
36    Robert Day   Trust Company of the West CEO    262   Education, health and arts    305    1,600    19
37    Ted and Vada Stanley   MBI founder    254   Mental illness, crisis relief    568    0    0
38    David and Cheryl Duffield   PeopleSoft co-founder    244   Animals, humane society, education    331    1,200    28
39    James Simons   Investor    243   Math, science, education, autism    267    5,500    5
40    Dan Duncan and family   Enterprise Products Ptnrs. co-founder    230   Medical research, education, youth    300    8,200    4
41    Frances Comer   Widow of Lands' End founder    228   Environment, education, youth    268    1,000    27
42    Ira and Mary Lou Fulton   Fulton Homes CEO    224   Higher education, community    266    410    65
43    Dawn Greene   Widow of lawyer Jerome Greene    200   Education, medicine, arts    260    0    0
44    Marguerite Hoffman   Widow of investor Robert Hoffman    199   Dallas arts and social services, science    208    0    0
45    George Lucas   Lucasfilm founder    196   Education, arts, health, civil rights    213    3,900    5
46    Larry Ellison   Oracle CEO    193   Research on aging and diseases    808    26,000    3
47    Thomas Siebel   Siebel Systems founder    189   Education, meth prevention, community    386    1,900    20
48    Peter Lewis   Progressive chairman    188   Arts, environment, youth, social reform    426    0    0
49    Leo and Kay Drey   Schram Glass heir, silviculture    180   Conservation    180    0    0
50    Haim and Cheryl Saban   Saban Capital Group CEO, Chairman    176   Children's healthcare, U.S. and Israeli charities    195    3,400    6
   

*Based on public records and interviews with donors

[The True Adonis]

Also consider how much Atheists donate to charity when they are estimated to be 10 percent or less of the population in the United States vs Christians who are estimated at 90 percent.

Bill Gates and George Soros and Warren Buffet are at the top!  Good Atheists!

[shootfighter1]

Good athiests and good Americans. 

I believe if we increase the already progressive income tax too high, the upper middle class and rich won't give as much to charity.  There is a huge difference in choosing to give to a cause that is worthy to you and being forced to give 50+% of your wages to benefit others and the government.

[Condor]

The one thing that works well is the Military and that happens to be the largest Socialist Entity in the World.

Never known of an all-volunteer military in a socialist society.

The military doesn't work well. It works because it has to. The military is extremely inefficient, but necessary. It is also falls under the US Constitution of providing for the common defense of the nation.

I know, I know, but the federalists didn't want a standing army. True, very true and I sometimes wonder about that, but I fear these socialist giveaway programs "something for nothing BS" more than the military. Besides, they earn their paycheck.

When was the last time you did anything out of a concept of service, instead of asking the government for health care and free school?

[The True Adonis]

Bump for 333336666

[Condor]

Never known of an all-volunteer military in a socialist society.

The military doesn't work well. It works because it has to. The military is extremely inefficient, but necessary. It is also falls under the US Constitution of providing for the common defense of the nation.

I know, I know, but the federalists didn't want a standing army. True, very true and I sometimes wonder about that, but I fear these socialist giveaway programs "something for nothing BS" more than the military. Besides, they earn their paycheck.

When was the last time you did anything out of a concept of service, instead of asking the government for health care and free school?

[Soul Crusher]

Bump for 333336666

The politicians will never go for a national sales tax. 

[The True Adonis]

uh, you have it backwards.  The Federalists were imperialists and wanted an Army and a Large Navy ala John Adams and Alexander Hamilton.   Thomas Jefferson, a kind of a proxy "Anti-Federalist" did not want the Standing Army or any Navy.  Just thought I would point out that your facts are wrong.


The military is highly efficient.  Also, don`t you agree that the Socialist Police and Fire Department as well as the Socialist Postal Service and the Socialist Department of Transportation which our roads are built and the Socialist Center for Disease Control and the Socialist Department of Agriculture and Food Safety and the National Institute of Health are all wonderful things shared by the collective?

[The True Adonis]

The politicians will never go for a national sales tax. 

Try a Socialist politician on for size as the National Sales Tax and the abolishment of the Income tax is what they champion.  Find your inner Socialist.

[IFBBwannaB]

Try a Socialist politician on for size as the National Sales Tax and the abolishment of the Income tax is what they champion.  Find your inner Socialist.

Can you please post the video of your 220lbs X 100 deadlift and the photos of you kissing your girlfriend (sister) not on the cheek?

Thanks man, I appreciate it, you only promised both 2 years ago or even before.

[w8tlftr]

If you don`t like taxes, don`t pay them.  Civil Dissention is after all, the highest form of patriotism. 

I personally think there should be a National Sales tax ON ALL NEW items. EVERYTHING IS TAXED! with the exception of food and housing. 
Used items should also be tax free.

Changing the nation from a spending to a savings oriented nation will not only reward quality, but will promote correct conservatism as it is meant to be practiced.

This way, people will have total control of every dollar they make and will be in total control of their finance.

Everybody pays the same equally.

We can be as regressive and as progressive as we like with a National Sales Tax as the world economy waxes and wanes.  20 percent is the agreed upon amount by all Fair Tax/National Sales Tax economists. 

This isn't going to make you any friends on the left, TA. 

[Condor]

uh, you have it backwards.  The Federalists were imperialists and wanted an Army and a Large Navy ala John Adams and Alexander Hamilton.   Thomas Jefferson, a kind of a proxy "Anti-Federalist" did not want the Standing Army or any Navy.  Just thought I would point out that your facts are wrong.


The military is highly efficient.  Also, don`t you agree that the Socialist Police and Fire Department as well as the Socialist Postal Service and the Socialist Department of Transportation which our roads are built and the Socialist Center for Disease Control and the Socialist Department of Agriculture and Food Safety and the National Institute of Health are all wonderful things shared by the collective?

You're wrong.  The military is very inefficient; we may be efficient in destroying the enemy, but to maintain an army, very inefficient.  I would agree that the DOT (specifically roads, not mass transit), Fire Departments and police departments are good things for the collective, because they apply to everyone equally!  If someone commits a crime the police is there, fire same thing.  You will get no argument from me that these aren't good for the collective.  If it is not applied to all then it shouldn't be paid for by the government, my opinion.  DOD same thing. 
 
The other thing about these; they are inherently inefficient because they do not produce anything.  They only consume.  Much like a hub operation at UPS or Fedex.  The basic goal of the hub is to limit cost, avoid delays and don't break anything.  Fire departments, police departments and DOD do employ people that is true, but without the economic engine of capitalism these things would not be able to function.