IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?

[Government_Controlled]

...I did, AFTER he asserted Issa was merely the Muslim name for Jesus.

I still think you are taking medication. McWay also acknowleged that it's accepted as you stated. However, not himself agreeing.

McWay will never answer whether Issa and Jesus are the same person:

-if he differentiates beween them, then he loses his claim that Jesus is original and couldn't have been plagiarised from other deities because the Jesus story and the Issa story are identical in every single respect: there is NO variation, other than the spelling

-if he conflates the two, (as some religious sects do) then he has to account for the fact that Issa is buried in Kashmir, where he retired after his resurrection, living to the ripe old age of 120

Why do you answer for McWay?

Besides, I thought YOU were McWay? I'm not the only one who thinks so either.

Well, I guess that's par for the course. Cause I thought YOU are McWaY!








GC/DEA_AGENT

[The Luke]

Why do you answer for McWay?

...I didn't answer for him, I explained why he can't and won't answer: either option would force him to question Zombie Jeebus.

Different guys, then Jesus ain't so original no more.

Same guy, then the ascension into heaven never happened and the Bible is wrong.


It's like catching a computer in a logic paradox, it can't think, it can only obey it's programming.

YOU won't answer the question either.


The Luke

[Government_Controlled]

...I didn't answer for him, I explained why he can't and won't answer: either option would force him to question Zombie Jeebus.

Ok, I'll give ya this one. It's a technicality, but by Jove, I'll give to ya anyway!. Medicated people tend to need these types of perks.

On a side note tho: You really didn't answer MY question to him. You merely reiterated  YOUR question to him.

It's like catching a computer in a logic paradox, it can't think, it can only obey it's programming.

Not really, you would be catching the programmer.

YOU won't answer the question either.

I already did, you didn't understand the answer.






GC/DEA_AGENT

[The Luke]

Not really, you would be catching the programmer.

...are you admitting you are programmed? Who or what is it that is programming you? Religion?

I already did, you didn't understand the answer.

...care to reiterate?

I must have missed that.



The Luke

[MCWAY]

...notice how this question ended the thread?

I suppose McWay googled "Saint Issa" and is now curled up in the corner of the room sobbing.



The Luke

And, like so many of your other stupid post, this one is DEAD WRONG, too.

Unless that memory of yours is SHOT once again, you will recall that I'm the one who linked the site, regarding a Muslim professor whose research project claims that Issa is the same Jesus Christ.

And, lest you forget, I did that right after you brought up Issa, once your pathetic claims to equate Attis' self-castration to Jesus' crucifixion crashed and burned. That is your standard route of silliness. When the facts don't' match with one figure, you run and hide behind the next. When that one gets exposed, you try to prop up another.



As I've said numerous times, there are Buddhist who believe that St. Issa is, in fact, Jesus Christ. Most do not, INCLUDING ME, which is hardly news.

Of course, that certainly doesn't make the ridiculous case that the Jewish people copied Jesus Christ from somewhere else.

Get a clue and some sense, for once.

[MCWAY]

...I didn't answer for him, I explained why he can't and won't answer: either option would force him to question Zombie Jeebus.

Different guys, then Jesus ain't so original no more.

Same guy, then the ascension into heaven never happened and the Bible is wrong.

One, I answered this question of yours MONTHS AGO. But, since the Alzheimers disease is kicking into gear again....NO, Issa and Jesus Christ are NOT the same person (though some Buddhists believe that to be the case).

However, your pitiful attempt at painting a no-win scenario don't quite hunt.

You, of course, are making the cracked assumption that the error here is on the Bible and not on those claiming that guy buried in Kashmir and Jesus are one and the same.

It's like catching a computer in a logic paradox, it can't think, it can only obey it's programming.

YOU won't answer the question either.


The Luke

Spare me your projection attempts again, Luke. Regurgitating cornball skeptic theories (the sources of which you lack the spine to produce), which have been ripped apart repeatedly by historical facts and simple common sense, hardly qualifies as thinking. You are simply obeying YOUR programming.

[MCWAY]

The Bible doesn't teach that Christ was born on that date (Dec. 25th). It's definitely not a Bible teaching.




GC/DEA_AGENT

EXACTLY!!

And, what's worse, L Dawg is using the same silly Zeitgeist (sp?) video that Luke did months ago, a video that I easily carved up, courtesy of a site which broke down nearly every single one of its erroneous claims.

It's also worth noting that the current issue of "Skeptic" magazine mentions how poor and pathetic the scholarship of this particular video really is.

[big L dawg]

Carl Sagan- You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.

[MCWAY]

Carl Sagan- You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.

Another worthless one-liner, brought to you by someone who wouldn't know evidence, if it put the billy clubs to him, LAPD-to-Rodney-King style.

When Sagan and the rest of his ilk can come up with some genuine discussion items, business will pick up. Until then, it's the same easily-refuted foolishness, we've heard time and time again.

[The Luke]

As I've said numerous times, there are Buddhist who believe that St. Issa is, in fact, Jesus Christ. Most do not, INCLUDING ME, which is hardly news.

...you're a Buddhist now?

I thought you were a literalist Christian fundamentalist?



The Luke

[MCWAY]

...you're a Buddhist now?

I thought you were a literalist Christian fundamentalist?

The Luke

When did I say I was a Buddhist?

Let me clarify, most of the people who believe that the Issa guy, buried in Kashmir, is Jesus Christ, are Buddhists.

However, the overwheliming majority of people (including myself) DO NOT hold that such is the case.

[big L dawg]

so the majority decide the truth...

[MCWAY]

so the majority decide the truth...

It appears Luke does not hold the sole patent on utterly boneheaded statements.

The evidence, supporting the life and death (along with the resurrection of Christ), is why the majority of people DO NOT hold that He is buried in Kashmir.

Reason (since you love quotes and citations)    :

If it (the Resurrection) had just been a spiritual resurrection, the enemies of the New Testament church would have taken the body of Jesus Christ, put it on a cart and walked it down the streets of Jerusalem, killing Christianity not just in the cradle but in the womb. There would have been no New Testament church, if they had the body" – Josh McDowell

”Where did Christianity first begin, in terms of the organized proclamation that Jesus rose from the dead? Only one place on Earth, Jerusalem. There, least of all, could Christianity have ever gotten started, if the moldering body of Jesus of Nazareth were available, anytime after Sunday morning.” – Dr. Paul Meier, Russell H. Seibert Professor of Ancient History, Western Michigan University.

I doubt the Roman antagonists of 2nd century A.D. would have complained about the growing nuisance (in their eyes) of Christianity, knowing that one trip to Kashmir to unearth His alleged body would have ended all the fuss (notwithstanding the fact that they already knew where and when Jesus Christ was killed and who executed Him).

[Samourai Pizzacat]

The bible is an edited volume, different writing styles, contradictions. If it was the work of God he would be a very erratic and schizophrenic character. 

[big L dawg]

Religion is the opiate of the masses. – Karl Marx

[The Luke]

I don't understand McWay's position here...?


If there is a guy buried in Kashmir whose life story matches the Jesus story in every single regard right up until the supposed ascension into heaven... why couldn't the Jesus story be copied from this guy?

More importantly, this Issa character sets the precedent for another dying/resurrecting godman being crucified under Pontius Pilate circa 35 AD then rising from the dead three days later.


You can't concede the existence of such a character, stipulate to the claims made about him and then still proclaim the Jesus story to be wholly original.


The Luke 

[MCWAY]

I don't understand McWay's position here...?


If there is a guy buried in Kashmir whose life story matches the Jesus story in every single regard right up until the supposed ascension into heaven... why couldn't the Jesus story be copied from this guy?

Because, Einstein, the guy buried in Kashmir IS NOT the same guy. Claiming that he is and such actually being the case are two totally different issues, a simple concept that (for some strange reason) you can't quite grasp.

More importantly, this Issa character sets the precedent for another dying/resurrecting godman being crucified under Pontius Pilate circa 35 AD then rising from the dead three days later.

Earth to Luke, there's no precedent to set because (as has been shown repeatedly) the figures you tout DO NOT match, whatsoever.

You ran to this pathetic Issa stuff, after being shown MULTIPLE times that Attis did not die in the same manner as Jesus Christ, NOR DID HE EVER RISE FROM THE DEAD. Same goes for Osiris, Dionysus, etc.

You can't concede the existence of such a character, stipulate to the claims made about him and then still proclaim the Jesus story to be wholly original.


The Luke  

One of these days, a grain of sense will germinate in that skull of yours. The Issa guy in Kashmir isn't the same guy. Were that the case, as McDowell and Dr. Meier indicate, the antagonists of late first/second century Christians would have simply produce the body and Christianity would have been DOA.

They knew where Jesus was buried, how He died, who executed Him, when and where. So, your repeatedly silly claims get crushed (yet again) by the historical evidence, regarding Christ.

[MCWAY]

Religion is the opiate of the masses. – Karl Marx

The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God" - David, king of Israel circa 1000-950 B.C.

 

[The Luke]

Earth to Luke, there's no precedent to set because (as has been shown repeatedly) the figures you tout DO NOT match, whatsoever.

...they do indeed match. Up until the ascension into heaven anyway... Jesus flies away, Issa retreats to Kashmir.

Prior to that, not even one single detail of their stories differ in any way.

Issa even claimed to be Jesus, and if Issa is Jesus....

The Issa guy in Kashmir isn't the same guy. Were that the case, as McDowell and Dr. Meier indicate, the antagonists of late first/second century Christians would have simply produce the body and Christianity would have been DOA.

They knew where Jesus was buried, how He died, who executed Him, when and where. So, your repeatedly silly claims get crushed (yet again) by the historical evidence, regarding Christ.

Notwithstanding the fact that the bulk of Christians didn't even believe Jesus ever rose from the dead till the triumph of Catholic orthodoxy over Cathar/Bogomil Gnosticism in the thirteenth century...

...how would the critics of Christianity have nown Jesus/Issa was buried in Kashmir?


You have worldwide news media; tv; newspapers; sattellite photography covering the entire planet; GPS mapping; and the god-damn internet... and you didnt know anything about Issa or his burial place till I pointed it out to you.

Either Issa is Jesus, or there was another Jesus... you can't assert one without conceding the other.


The Luke

[MCWAY]

...they do indeed match. Up until the ascension into heaven anyway... Jesus flies away, Issa retreats to Kashmir.

Prior to that, not even one single detail of their stories differ in any way.

Issa even claimed to be Jesus, and if Issa is Jesus....

Once again, Einstein, CLAIMING to be Jesus and actually being Jesus are two separate issues.

Notwithstanding the fact that the bulk of Christians didn't even believe Jesus ever rose from the dead till the triumph of Catholic orthodoxy over Cathar/Bogomil Gnosticism in the thirteenth century...

From where do you get this comical yet pitiful tripe? Christians believed in the Resurrection of Christ LONG BEFORE THERE EVER WAS A CATHOLIC CHURCH.

First and second century Christians spread the faith, despite facing great persecution. That is well documented. For you to make such a pea-brained statement smacks of your typical yet feeble attempt at revisionist history.

...how would the critics of Christianity have nown Jesus/Issa was buried in Kashmir?

The Roman ruled the planet. If they wanted to know where Jesus was buried (which they already knew, BTW), they would have found Him. They produce the body, kill Christianity by destroying the very foundation of the faith.....GAME OVER!!!

You have worldwide news media; tv; newspapers; sattellite photography covering the entire planet; GPS mapping; and the god-damn internet... and you didnt know anything about Issa or his burial place till I pointed it out to you.

Lay off the weed, Luke. I knew about Issa already (the particulars being that as the Muslim name for Jesus Christ).

Either Issa is Jesus, or there was another Jesus... you can't assert one without conceding the other.


The Luke

Fortunately, I am not beholden to your screwball logic. Whoever that Issa guy is buried in Kashmir, he is NOT (let me say that SLOWLY, since you don't get it) He   IS    NOT   JESUS    CHRIST!!!

There is but one Christ and he ain't in Kashmir. Let that sit in your skull and marinate for a while.

Your pathetic claiims don't hold up to the historical evidence or basic common sense. But, if you wish to continue making a fool of yourself, spouting this nonsense which I can easy dismantle with little-to-no-effort, knock yourself out.

[The Luke]

Once again, Einstein, CLAIMING to be Jesus and actually being Jesus are two separate issues.

...then how did a holy man living in Kashmir (thousands of miles from Judea) know every detail of the Jesus story before any of the Gospels were written? Issa arrived in Kashmir circa 50 AD.

Was he one of the disciples? How else could he know all of Jesus teachings? (even the inimate ones)

More importantly, how did he heal the sick/lame/blind?

Why did he have crucifixion wounds upon his body? (even depicted on his grave)

Why did he claim to have risen from the dead after being crucified by Pilate in Judea?

Why did he claim to be Jesus...? ...and why make such a claim in Kashmir? Why not Judea? Why not Jew-populated southern France? Why stick to the story for 70 years?
 
Most interestingly, why did some early Christian missionaries recognise him as Jesus and build a new religion around pilgrimage to his tomb?

From where do you get this comical yet pitiful tripe? Christians believed in the Resurrection of Christ LONG BEFORE THERE EVER WAS A CATHOLIC CHURCH.

...not all of them.

The Cathars, Bogomils, Aryans, Old Believers, (some) Albigensians and the Gnostics did NOT hold to the resurrection, nor the divinity of Jesus himself. In fact, a resurrecting divine Jesus was a minority view till the sixth centuy or so.

Read up on it... don't just copy and paste the first screed denouncing this historical act you scrounge off some apologist Christian think-tank website.

First and second century Christians spread the faith, despite facing great persecution. That is well documented. For you to make such a pea-brained statement smacks of your typical yet feeble attempt at revisionist history.

...apparently Issa was on his way to Kashmir immediately after the crucifixion.

The Roman ruled the planet. If they wanted to know where Jesus was buried (which they already knew, BTW), they would have found Him. They produce the body, kill Christianity by destroying the very foundation of the faith.....GAME OVER!!!

...this is patently laughable! The "planet"? China too?
 
Besides, Kashmir was never under Roman control.

Lay off the weed, Luke. I knew about Issa already (the particulars being that as the Muslim name for Jesus Christ).

...then why weren't you off to Kashmir post haste to excavate your gods tomb?

Fortunately, I am not beholden to your screwball logic. Whoever that Issa guy is buried in Kashmir, he is NOT (let me say that SLOWLY, since you don't get it) He   IS    NOT   JESUS    CHRIST!!!

There is but one Christ and he ain't in Kashmir. Let that sit in your skull and marinate for a while.

...maybe so, but then who is this buried Issa? Another Jesus maybe?

The original version of Jesus maybe?

The source account from which Jesus was plagiarised, perhaps.

Your pathetic claiims don't hold up to the historical evidence or basic common sense. But, if you wish to continue making a fool of yourself, spouting this nonsense which I can easy dismantle with little-to-no-effort, knock yourself out.

Come on McWay, either Issa is Jesus or there was another Jesus.


The Luke 

[MCWAY]

...then how did a holy man living in Kashmir (thousands of miles from Judea) know every detail of the Jesus story before any of the Gospels were written? Issa arrived in Kashmir circa 50 AD.

Was he one of the disciples? How else could he know all of Jesus teachings? (even the inimate ones)

Intimate ones? That's rich. Knowing the teachings of Jesus Christ was quite easy. Paul was taught Christ's teachings by fellow Christians and the disciples were spreading the Gospel as well. Not that hard to know what Jesus taught and the words He spoke, boy genius.

More importantly, how did he heal the sick/lame/blind?

Why did he have crucifixion wounds upon his body? (even depicted on his grave)

Why did he claim to have risen from the dead after being crucified by Pilate in Judea?

Why did he claim to be Jesus...? ...and why make such a claim in Kashmir? Why not Judea? Why not Jew-populated southern France? Why stick to the story for 70 years?

Who knows and really who cares? Claims alone DO NOT make that guy Jesus Christ.

Most interestingly, why did some early Christian missionaries recognise him as Jesus and build a new religion around pilgrimage to his tomb?

I'm sorry. Didn't Paul and the disciples of Christ warn that there would be imposters, claiming to be Jesus Christ? This fellow, it seems, is simply one of them.

...not all of them.

The Cathars, Bogomils, Aryans, Old Believers, (some) Albigensians and the Gnostics did NOT hold to the resurrection, nor the divinity of Jesus himself. In fact, a resurrecting divine Jesus was a minority view till the sixth centuy or so.

More baloney on your part. The view of a resurrected Christ was part and parcel of the Christian faith, a fact lost on you in your futile attempt to make your lame claims stick.

Rom 10:8,9

But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Paul taught that to those with whom he came in contact. And he was taught that by other Christians (i.e. his mentors, Aquilla and Priscilla, as well as some of Jesus' disciples).

Read up on it... don't just copy and paste the first screed denouncing this historical act you scrounge off some apologist Christian think-tank website.

Look who's talking!!! The guy who scrounge silly skeptic and atheist sites, posting this drivel (yet lacking the actual spine to reveal his sources).

...this is patently laughable! The "planet"? China too?
 
Besides, Kashmir was never under Roman control.

As if the Romans, far closer to the situation than you or any of the folks who espouse this mess, could not ascertain Jesus' location (especially when they had a expressed interest to end Christianity).

...then why weren't you off to Kashmir post haste to excavate your gods tomb?

Because, Einstein, my God is not in that tomb (or any other for that matter)

...maybe so, but then who is this buried Issa? Another Jesus maybe?

The original version of Jesus maybe?

Who is he makes no difference; who he IS NOT is Jesus Christ, end of story.

The source account from which Jesus was plagiarised, perhaps.


Come on McWay, either Issa is Jesus or there was another Jesus.


The Luke  

Once again, I am not subject to you pea-brained logic. There is only one Jesus Christ and this Issa character, buried in Kashmir, ain't He, pure and simple.

[big L dawg]

ever notice how mcway and gov controlled are the same person..Mcgay has been posting excessively since sep 17th...care to guess when the last time gov controll posted?yep...you guessed it the 17th...and guess who was on hiatus prior to that when gov was doing all the posting...yep mcgay....
factor in they post at the same time of day and you realize just how pathetic it really is.ha ha

the only thing worse than a delusional religious extremest is one with a split personality....


although now I'm sure mysteriously the post patterns will change now that it's been exposed.

[MCWAY]

ever notice how mcway and gov controlled are the same person..Mcgay has been posting excessively since sep 17th...care to guess when the last time gov controll posted?yep...you guessed it the 17th...and guess who was on hiatus prior to that when gov was doing all the posting...yep mcgay....
factor in they post at the same time of day and you realize just how pathetic it really is.ha ha

Woefully wrong, as usual, Puppy boy!!

I've been on hiatus, due to my being on vacation with my wife and kids. Now, that I'm back on my usual routine, I can post here as I usually do.

Lost in your inaccurate tripe is why exactly would I need to post as someone else. I've been here far longer than you and will be here, long after you tuck your proverbial tail and whimper away.

You are engaging in nothing more than the standard GetBig flap, in which a poster gets accused of being dead or pretending to be someone else, when he doesn't post here for couple of weeks.

During my duration here on GetBig I've been accused of everything from being a rep for MuscleTech to a PR guy for Bally (I did work there during the summer of '95, between college semester), to being a GNC manager to even working for Weider.

All of those accusations were false, as is this pathetic spiel of yours, claiming that I'm GC.

I guess that what's happens when you have nothing but cheap and silly one-liners from cracked atheists and factually-void videos, posted with little thought.

Carry on!

[big L dawg]