Author Topic: Could Jay Cutler have beat Dorian Yates?  (Read 113296 times)

mesmorph78

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #100 on: May 29, 2005, 03:59:11 PM »
nd
lol what are u blind...
besides thatpic u show the coleman part  is shaded...
and yet his delts still own dorian...
...
remember even shawn said it and he competed against both.... chris lund also said it...
cmon man... if u compared flex to coleman... then i could see a debate...
dorian is just not in that class for starters... v taper... muscle shape and size and vascularity... coleman has him beat on...
its a no brainer man....
dorian has an ugly shape...  compared to guys like flex coleman shawn dillet... cormier aaraon baker... mike francios to name a few....
he fits in the same boat as... gunter.... he just doesnt have a round full look...
70% of his olympia wins were BULLSHIT!!!
nasser
owned him on evry single bodypart ..aside from back in 1997... easy.... easy....
yet the judges gave it to dorian...
bullshit
gunter ...
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #101 on: May 29, 2005, 04:17:39 PM »
Here is a comparison of them doing the same pose:




And Dorian gets owned yet again!!

Now that the re-debate is over and Ronnie has won yet again, lets get back to the original topic at hand:

Dorian vs. Cutler!!!
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2005, 04:45:58 PM »
Funny Yates beat Coleman 5 times and how many times did Coleman beat Yates? thank you ! NONE.   ;)

Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2005, 05:39:54 PM »
Funny Yates beat Coleman 5 times and how many times did Coleman beat Yates? thank you ! NONE.   ;)

Exactly, end of thread. Yates 5, big ron 0.  Shawns opinion is valid but dont forget flex and Levrone have both stated that Dorian is the best ever.. and Chris Lund is a washed up flex photographer trying to hype the current champ.
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #104 on: May 29, 2005, 06:12:54 PM »
Exactly, end of thread. Yates 5, big ron 0.  Shawns opinion is valid but dont forget flex and Levrone have both stated that Dorian is the best ever.. and Chris Lund is a washed up flex photographer trying to hype the current champ.

So you guys are honestly saying that Ronnie Coleman in 1991-6 was at the same level as Ronnie Coleman in 1998-2001??

WTF?? ::)

That is like saying that Momo Benaziza could beat Dorian at any time just because he beat a practically pre-pubescent Yates in 1990 at the NOC. ::)
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Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #105 on: May 29, 2005, 06:59:55 PM »
So you guys are honestly saying that Ronnie Coleman in 1991-6 was at the same level as Ronnie Coleman in 1998-2001??

WTF?? ::)

That is like saying that Momo Benaziza could beat Dorian at any time just because he beat a practically pre-pubescent Yates in 1990 at the NOC. ::)

When Momo beat Dorian Momo looked phenominal,  carved from granite, and wings inserting into his hips. That day Momo was the better man, that One(1) time. Now is memory serves me correct, Dorian beat Ron five(5) times. There is a HUGe difference between one and Five. Oh yah Gunter beat ronnie aswell, Now did yates ever loose when he was Mr O?
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #106 on: May 29, 2005, 07:12:39 PM »
Quote
That day Momo was the better man, that One(1) time. Now is memory serves me correct, Dorian beat Ron five(5) times. There is a HUGe difference between one and Five.

And I suppose you think there is NO difference between Ronnie's physique back then and when he was winning Mr. Olympia titles?  ::)

Quote
Oh yah Gunter beat ronnie aswell, Now did yates ever loose when he was Mr O?

Pretty much the entire bodybuilding world views the 1994 Mr. Olympia as the end of the golden age of bodybuilding (when Dorian won with a gut, wide waist, torn bicep, and soft all over). And he beat a career best shape Shawn Ray too.. :'(
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Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #107 on: May 29, 2005, 07:18:55 PM »
And I suppose you think there is NO difference between Ronnie's physique back then and when he was winning Mr. Olympia titles?  ::)

Pretty much the entire bodybuilding world views the 1994 Mr. Olympia as the end of the golden age of bodybuilding (when Dorian won with a gut, wide waist, torn bicep, and soft all over). And he beat a career best shape Shawn Ray too.. :'(


Well I do agree with you that in 94 Ray should have beaten Dorian and mabey even Levrone too. On all the other points I guess we can agree to disagree
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Hendrix

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #108 on: May 29, 2005, 07:50:25 PM »
I am not doubting Yates coditinioning it was out of this world.But please show me competition a shot of Dorian in the exact same pose as Coleman as dry and conditioned as in this photo
Funny Yates beat Coleman 5 times and how many times did Coleman beat Yates? thank you ! NONE. ;)
None of the photos you have displayed in colour have matched Coleman and as far as Yates beating Coleman 5 times i bet in those defeats Coleman was not on Half the drug regiem Yates was on.Yates started the whole HGH,IGF and so on with his good freind Dan Duchaine.
People go on about the black and white photos of Dorian in supreme shape but Photographers do this to highlight contrasts,the image is clearer and shows more detail,if they were did in colour they would not be nearly as impressive.Again i plead show me Dorian in the same pose in comp shape that dry.If you do i will happly admit defeat.
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #109 on: May 29, 2005, 08:00:32 PM »
Quote
People go on about the black and white photos of Dorian in supreme shape but Photographers do this to highlight contrasts,the image is clearer and shows more detail,if they were did in colour they would not be nearly as impressive.

Very good points. Art Zeller was famous for his shots of Arnold in Black and white.

there are very few black and white shots of Ronnie, but the few that are out there are very impressive.
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Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #110 on: May 29, 2005, 08:04:04 PM »
I am not doubting Yates coditinioning it was out of this world.But please show me competition a shot of Dorian in the exact same pose as Coleman as dry and conditioned as in this photoNone of the photos you have displayed in colour have matched Coleman and as far as Yates beating Coleman 5 times i bet in those defeats Coleman was not on Half the drug regiem Yates was on.Yates started the whole HGH,IGF and so on with his good freind Dan Duchaine.
People go on about the black and white photos of Dorian in supreme shape but Photographers do this to highlight contrasts,the image is clearer and shows more detail,if they were did in colour they would not be nearly as impressive.Again i plead show me Dorian in the same pose in comp shape that dry.If you do i will happly admit defeat.


Um did you see the pics ND posted on this thread?? Yate's condition in those photos is superior to colemans IMO
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bbfan1

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #111 on: May 29, 2005, 08:10:00 PM »
I agree that Dorian was probably more juiced than Ronnie when they were competing together.  Think about it - Ronnie is only two years (two lousy years) younger than Dorian, and Dorian looks like his dad.

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #112 on: May 29, 2005, 08:19:10 PM »
Hulkster you want two photos of Yates in contest shape that match or surpass those pics of Coleman , here you go.  ;)
They do not surpass the two photos of Ronnie in colour or Black and white,while Yates back is incredibly impressive you cannot seriously say they are better of the photo of Coleman with incredible dryness and detail.
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bbfan1

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #113 on: May 29, 2005, 08:31:00 PM »
They do not surpass the two photos of Ronnie in colour or Black and white,while Yates back is incredibly impressive you cannot seriously say they are better of the photo of Coleman with incredible dryness and detail.

Agreed.  It is one thing to state that Dorian had an amazing back - even #2 in history could be said without much debate, but better than Ronnie's?  I think not.

Hendrix

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #114 on: May 29, 2005, 09:03:32 PM »

Um did you see the pics ND posted on this thread?? Yate's condition in those photos is superior to colemans IMO
Yes i did and i disagree,ND did not show a photo that i and Hulkster put up where Dorians conditioning is as good or surpasses Colemans back double bicep pose the photos are in colour and black and white.Its a subjective sport and people will disagree i was a serious Flex fan In MrO98 and 99 and Coleman beat him on conditioning alone and in my opinion Coleman surpassed Dorians conditioning in those events.Anyway this will be my last post on the subject,Here are the photos again be objective and you might see my opinion as correct or not?.
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Hendrix

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #115 on: May 29, 2005, 09:05:55 PM »
Dorian and Coleman.
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #116 on: May 29, 2005, 09:17:03 PM »

Lights out budday!!!
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #117 on: May 29, 2005, 09:25:50 PM »

ND I am confused as to why you think this pic shows great condtion.

Look at it compared to a contest shot of Ronnie's back double bi:


Not even close.

Dorian has a great back (obviously) but his claim to fame has always been his lats and his christmas tree. His back double bi was far overrated.  Simply compare his to Ronnie's and you can clearly see that people give credit to Dorian for having a much better back double bi than he actually does. He is overrated in this pose..



Ronnie's back double bi is the best in history IMO (Flex Wheeler's is a close second - Ronnie's extra thickness gives him the slight edge)
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Hulkster

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #118 on: May 29, 2005, 09:37:49 PM »

I should rephrase the text under this pic in my post above. Yes, Dorian shows condition (in the delts) but it is NOT a particularly impressive shot of Dorian, simply because, as I showed above, I don't think his rear double bi was as great as everyone seems to think that it is.


Sorry, but this does not look like the greatest back of all time like many claim.. Maybe its the arms that ruin the pose, but it doesn't look anything like this:



And by the way:



How in the hell can people say that the guy standing in the middle is better conditioned and has better muscle quality than Ronnie?? How did dorian win some of his later Olympia's looking this bad??

1993 was one thing - he looked good there. But in some of these shots (I think from 1996 or 7) he barely looks like he should be in the top 6!! Sorry, but the pics don't lie  :-\
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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #119 on: May 29, 2005, 09:58:48 PM »
Dorian was great.
but you guys are in denial if you think he would beat ronnie coleman. honestly, just admit it.
ronnie's shape was superior.
ronnie's conditioning was just as good if not better.
ronnie's arms are better.
ronnie's legs are bigger and better(except calves of course)
 the key here is SHAPE, look at the rear double bis. there is no comparison whatsoever

mesmorph78

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #120 on: May 30, 2005, 02:39:54 AM »
they're not in denial....
they are delusional..
choice is an illusion

Mussolini

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #121 on: May 30, 2005, 05:51:45 AM »
The bottom line is Dorian was champ when there was a superior line up, when there were about 5 or 6 other guys worthy of being champ. Flex, Ray, levrone, Dillet, Nasser ect. the only man these days who is a threat to Ron is Jay. ALso Dorian Beat Ron 5 times.

This debate is similar to the debate of " who was a better hockey player, lemueux or Gretzky". Were never gona change each others minds so why bother trying?
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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #122 on: May 30, 2005, 06:17:25 AM »
Dorian beat Ronnie when he was in his prime, one day someone that Ronnie is spanking right now will eclipse him and people will start a whole new debate on whether Ronnie could beat ............. at their respective bests. Its entertaining as everyone has a view, just because you think yours is right doesnt mean you have to force people into believing it also.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #123 on: May 30, 2005, 06:31:13 AM »
Hulkster wanted two photos of Yates in competition that equalled Coleman's condition in those pics , and if you take a look at any of those pics they equal and I'll go so far as to say his condition at the 1993 Mr Olympia surpasses Colemans .

Ronnies arms aren't better than Yates thats a myth , Ronnies biceps are better than Yates , Yates has better triceps & forearms .

And Hulkster if you're going to use the best picture of Coleman as an example of his better back double bicep shot , you have to use Yates' best picture not one where he is not his best , but thats your M.O. you post subpar pics of Yates when comparing to Coleman to prove a point get angry when people post pics of Coleman with his gut hanging out lol pure hypocrisy , Coleman's back double bicep shot being the best in the history of the sport? I don't think so , not when he has a giant ass and no calves.

This back double bicep shot of Yates has a few things Coleman's doesn't like much better balance between upper & lower body , much better proportion between muscles , obviously Coleman's biceps are better , but his giant ass and weak calves hurt him in this shot .

Yates beat Coleman 5 times and when he beat him in 94 Coleman was smallish , in 95 Coleman came into his own and started to win , in 96/97 he started to come into his own and place real high in contests and beat Flex , so stop acting like it was when Momo beat Yates , Yates was 220lbs when Momo beat him Coleman was at least near his best weight of 250lbs when Yates beat him in 96/97 .

And lets entertain for a moment Coleman has " superior " muscle shape to Yates , big deal , Flex Wheeler had superior muscle shape then both Yates & Coleman and Yates always beat Flex . so much for that .

Yates beat the best at thier best because he was simply more complete , sans 94 , he had size , condition , balance , proportion , symmetry , and he was complete from head to toe , front to back , and he simply looked better in the 7 mandatory poses than the rest of the guys.

In 98 almost everyone on the Pro circuit beat Ronnie Coleman previously , the only reason Coleman won against Flex , was beacuse he was off , he won because Flex wasn't 100%
right out the box Yates was a winner he was only beat a handfull of times , while Coleman was beat month in month out by everyone , and like it was stated he was beat while being Mr Olympia , in their respective peaks in thier all time best shapes Dorian Yates was beat Ronnie Coleman , like he beat the best of the best of the 90s , simply because he has fewer flaws and is more complete.


Bottom pic , Coleman 1996 Mr Olympia at around 250lbs

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Re: Could Cutler beat Dorian.
« Reply #124 on: May 30, 2005, 08:19:52 AM »
ummmmmmm,

I'm sure the title of this thread had something to do with comparing Cutler to Dorian...

...... I must be seeing things.
cos i'm tryin' to get higher.