Author Topic: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...  (Read 165667 times)

BuffD

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #575 on: February 14, 2010, 03:18:51 PM »
lol, how did own myself? I said his right arm is smaller and it is. Look at the pic.

How bout the fact that Ronnies right side is larger than the left?  I mean pics and vids are real life and the pics clearly show this.

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #576 on: February 14, 2010, 03:54:04 PM »
<yawn> it was a rhetorical question  

"Come on now, this is the age of Ronnie Coleman who else would win"

there is no other way to interpret this. Him commenting about the other champs' heydays was a show of respect so he wouldn't appear cocky.

Yawn nothing you specifically left out the part where he said " I couldn't beat them " you did this deliberately because he admits again he couldn't beat him.

Let's say it was rhetorical the other two quotes sure as fuck weren't so you're fucked either way because he's been pretty consistent claiming he couldn't beat Dorian and FYI that quote was from 2001 in 2009 on Special Ed's radio show he said Dorian would still win so that nullifies anything he's said before

Ronnie admits he couldn't beat Dorian this renders ANY quote from ANYONE moot because he is after all the Greatest Bodybuilder who ever lived  ;) and he still says he couldn't touch Dorian

run along Ronnie owns you




NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #577 on: February 14, 2010, 03:57:37 PM »
That's just Ronnie being humble.  You're not supposed to take it literally.
Bodybuilding is a subjective sport, but when one competitor is so far ahead of another, it becomes OBJECTIVE.
I know u have love for Yates, but Ronnie is from another planet compared to Yates.
These 30 page threads are growing tiresome.  Anyone with eyes can clearly see Ronnie is the greatest of all time.

Don't presume to speak for Ronnie it's not literal when you don't agree  ::)

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #578 on: February 14, 2010, 04:12:42 PM »
Quote
This reminds me of Hulkster saying that Ronnie himself is wrong when he said 1998 was his best Mr. O condition.  Hulkster thinks 1999 was better based solely on pics/vids, so Ronnie must be wrong.  Hulkster knows more about Ronnie than Ronnie knows about Ronnie.


you obviously don't realize that ronnie stated publicly in his 99 victory seminar that he was in better shape than 98..

so, no, Ronnie knows ronnie and so do I.


 ::)
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #579 on: February 14, 2010, 04:21:48 PM »

you obviously don't realize that ronnie stated publicly in his 99 victory seminar that he was in better shape than 98..

so, no, Ronnie knows ronnie and so do I.


 ::)



yeah and everyone says they were in the best shape of their life after the contest  ::) it's at the end of his career when he sits down and evaluates all of his contest showings then he can decide and what did he say?

    
   
[ Q ] There are those who feel you were at your best when you competed lighter, which for you was in the low 270's, and those who say you were best in the 290's. Was there a particular look you presented that you preferred over the others?
dot

      Number one. That one was incredible to me. It (Ronnie's first Olympia win in 1998) always will be and nothing will ever take the place of that one. Everything was just spot on for that show. I had to overcome so much to win that one too.

      I had guys in front of me who had beaten me for the last ten years or so. Nobody picked me to go in and win that show because I had gotten ninth the year before. I had to come with an incredible package and blow all the judges away and that's what I pretty much did.


And he said 1998 was his best Olympia as well on Special Ed's show because his conditioning was spot-on

So NO Hulkster knows shit as usual.

Royal Lion

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #580 on: February 14, 2010, 04:22:41 PM »

you obviously don't realize that ronnie stated publicly in his 99 victory seminar that he was in better shape than 98..

so, no, Ronnie knows ronnie and so do I.


 ::)


See, this is the problem with Hulkster, he pulls this shit out of thin air as if we'll believe it.  I didn't know Coleman said that in 99 - he may very well have; however, why don't you provide a source?

There are pages in the "Truce" thread of you saying that Ronnie is wrong for stating that 98 was his best Mr. O and that he was more conditioned than in 99.  

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #581 on: February 14, 2010, 04:36:55 PM »
See, this is the problem with Hulkster, he pulls this shit out of thin air as if we'll believe it.  I didn't know Coleman said that in 99 - he may very well have; however, why don't you provide a source?

There are pages in the "Truce" thread of you saying that Ronnie is wrong for stating that 98 was his best Mr. O and that he was more conditioned than in 99.  

right here buddy:


http://www.dennisbweis.com/Articles/Colman.html

Quote
I was almost 15 pounds heavier than last year, with a little bit better conditioning than last year
[/b][/size]


 I don't pull anything out of my ass. you should know that by now..

always remember nuthuggers: I am always one step ahead of you. always.
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Royal Lion

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #582 on: February 14, 2010, 04:48:21 PM »
right here buddy:


http://www.dennisbweis.com/Articles/Colman.html
[/b][/size]


 I don't pull anything out of my ass. you should know that by now..

always remember nuthuggers: I am always one step ahead of you. always.

Fair enough...you actually posted legitimate proof for once.  And yes, you are one step ahead of everyone, but only in your obsesssion with this topic (versus your analysis of it)  :)

delta9mda

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #583 on: February 14, 2010, 05:21:13 PM »
you seem to forget that others have also seen them both in person and say that ronnie is far above.

and their opinion is corroborated by the pics and vids.

James28's is not.

which opinion is correct?

the one corroborated by the pics and vids.

sorry.
and you keep forgetting i have seen them both and Yates is better. you have seen none of them live so really you should not be talking.

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #584 on: February 14, 2010, 05:42:20 PM »
wrong.

no one has seen 93/95 dorian stand onstage next to 98/99/AC coleman.

because it never happened.

so we all should be talking.

thats the point.

and thats where the pics and videos come in.

oh wait - they show ronnie is better at his peak.

sucks to be on your side of the argument (the losing one) :-*
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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #585 on: February 14, 2010, 05:56:48 PM »
Wrong.  93/95 Dorian dominated as much or more than 98/99 Ronnie did; and, the lineup's were more competitive.  :-*

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #586 on: February 14, 2010, 06:03:22 PM »
too bad dorian should have lost in 1994, 1997 and arguably even 1996.. :-*

winning in a more competitive lineup doesn't really do much for you if you never should have won in the first place..
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NeoSeminole

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #587 on: February 14, 2010, 06:39:41 PM »
this whole argument is seriously retarded. The nuthuggers claim "you have to see him in person" to argue Dorian was better. However, there are tons of quotes from witnesses who saw both and came to the conclusion that Ronnie was better. What is there left to argue?

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #588 on: February 14, 2010, 07:25:31 PM »
this whole argument is seriously retarded. The nuthuggers claim "you have to see him in person" to argue Dorian was better. However, there are tons of quotes from witnesses who saw both and came to the conclusion that Ronnie was better. What is there left to argue?
There is the same thing saying Dorian is better. Just as many people. Guess there is plenty to argue, eh?

NeoSeminole

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #589 on: February 14, 2010, 09:36:05 PM »
There is the same thing saying Dorian is better. Just as many people. Guess there is plenty to argue, eh?

who are all these people?

that's like me saying "for every person who thinks Dorian is better, there are 4x as many who have seen both and think Ronnie is better"

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #590 on: February 14, 2010, 09:39:32 PM »
who are all these people?

that's like me saying "for every person who thinks Dorian is better, there are 4x as many who have seen both and think Ronnie is better"
I said, there is just as many people who've seen Dorian say he is better, as there is people who have seen Ronnie, and say he is better. So, obviously its up for debate. Off the top of my head, there is Delta, James, Mcgough (however the fuck you spell it), Buffd, etc. Just in this thread. I think I've seen 2 people post who've seen Ronnie and Dorian and say Ronnie is better.

NeoSeminole

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #591 on: February 14, 2010, 11:58:02 PM »
I said, there is just as many people who've seen Dorian say he is better, as there is people who have seen Ronnie, and say he is better. So, obviously its up for debate. Off the top of my head, there is Delta, James, Mcgough (however the fuck you spell it), Buffd, etc. Just in this thread. I think I've seen 2 people post who've seen Ronnie and Dorian and say Ronnie is better.

this list doesn't include Getbig members who say Ronnie is better ;)

Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49

"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."

Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005

"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."

Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)

"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."

Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035

"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"

Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer

"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"

http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis

Steve Blechman - MD, Febrary 2004

"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."

Greg Merritt - Flex, July 2007 p. 212

"Coleman is only two years older than the new Mr. O (hypothetical article saying if Toney Freeman won), but time stops for no man, including the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived."

Greg Meritt – http://www.metroflexgymtraining.com/testimonials.html

“From the greatest bodybuilder of all-time, Ronnie Coleman, to gregarious owner Brian Dobson to the kid who joined yesterday, everyone is trying to push themselves further than ever before, and it’s the energy of this shared commitment that makes Metroflex great.”

Chris Lund (Paraphrased by Milos Sarcev) - European Flex, April 2004

"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0

Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official

"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004

"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."

Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999

“I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived.”

Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website

"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."

Branch Warren – Flex, October 2006

“I have a lot of respect for Ronnie. He’s probably the greatest bodybuilder there’s ever been.”

John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia - Personal Website

"It would be safe to say that [Ronnie Coleman] presented a physique that has never been seen by the bodybuilding world ever before. Competing at an incredibly massive 287 pounds, Ronnie destroyed the competition with a physique that could not possibly be equaled."

Ryan Mackie - A Fan Perspective: My 2003 Olympia Experience (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)

"Everyone could see that at 287 pounds this was Ronnie's night and that he was back on top of his game and furthermore bodybuilding had just seen the bar of excellence raised even further. Just like Dorian Yates did in 1993 when he set a new standard, Ronnie has now taken it even further leaving all his competitors wonder what they have to do to now catch Ronnie Coleman, let alone beat him."

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #592 on: February 15, 2010, 01:49:58 AM »
this list doesn't include Getbig members who say Ronnie is better ;)

Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49

"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."

Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005

"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."

Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)

"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."

Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035

"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"

Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer

"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"

http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis

Steve Blechman - MD, Febrary 2004

"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."

Greg Merritt - Flex, July 2007 p. 212

"Coleman is only two years older than the new Mr. O (hypothetical article saying if Toney Freeman won), but time stops for no man, including the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived."

Greg Meritt – http://www.metroflexgymtraining.com/testimonials.html

“From the greatest bodybuilder of all-time, Ronnie Coleman, to gregarious owner Brian Dobson to the kid who joined yesterday, everyone is trying to push themselves further than ever before, and it’s the energy of this shared commitment that makes Metroflex great.”

Chris Lund (Paraphrased by Milos Sarcev) - European Flex, April 2004

"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0

Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official

"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004

"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."

Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999

“I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived.”

Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website

"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."

Branch Warren – Flex, October 2006

“I have a lot of respect for Ronnie. He’s probably the greatest bodybuilder there’s ever been.”

John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia - Personal Website

"It would be safe to say that [Ronnie Coleman] presented a physique that has never been seen by the bodybuilding world ever before. Competing at an incredibly massive 287 pounds, Ronnie destroyed the competition with a physique that could not possibly be equaled."

Ryan Mackie - A Fan Perspective: My 2003 Olympia Experience (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)

"Everyone could see that at 287 pounds this was Ronnie's night and that he was back on top of his game and furthermore bodybuilding had just seen the bar of excellence raised even further. Just like Dorian Yates did in 1993 when he set a new standard, Ronnie has now taken it even further leaving all his competitors wonder what they have to do to now catch Ronnie Coleman, let alone beat him."

Argumentum ad populum none of those quotes prove Ronnie was better , just prove a lot of people think he was better. and you typed above in another post ' what's left to argue ' and yet here you are in yet another Dorian Yates thread trying to prove Ronnie was better. What's funny is you'll take whoever says Ronnie is better as proof but when Ronnie says he couldn't beat Dorian you call him stupid  ::) if anything his point of view trumps everyone else and even then it doesn't make it true

learn how to argue without using fallacious arguments

NeoSeminole

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #593 on: February 15, 2010, 05:50:13 AM »
Argumentum ad populum none of those quotes prove Ronnie was better , just prove a lot of people think he was better. and you typed above in another post ' what's left to argue ' and yet here you are in yet another Dorian Yates thread trying to prove Ronnie was better. What's funny is you'll take whoever says Ronnie is better as proof but when Ronnie says he couldn't beat Dorian you call him stupid if anything his point of view trumps everyone else and even then it doesn't make it true

learn how to argue without using fallacious arguments

>:( "no fair! no fair! no fair! no fair!" >:(

LMAO

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #594 on: February 15, 2010, 06:53:18 AM »
Yawn nothing you specifically left out the part where he said " I couldn't beat them " you did this deliberately because he admits again he couldn't beat him.

Let's say it was rhetorical the other two quotes sure as fuck weren't so you're fucked either way because he's been pretty consistent claiming he couldn't beat Dorian and FYI that quote was from 2001 in 2009 on Special Ed's radio show he said Dorian would still win so that nullifies anything he's said before

Ronnie admits he couldn't beat Dorian this renders ANY quote from ANYONE moot because he is after all the Greatest Bodybuilder who ever lived  ;) and he still says he couldn't touch Dorian

run along Ronnie owns you





This is ridiculous. The way Ronnie worded it he meant each champion would beat everyone is their respective heydays. Anyone who thinks he really meant Arnold and Haney would also beat him knows nothing of bodybuilding or human speech. To observe he was being respectful of these great past champions is the most basic of inferences, so quit making stuff up, you embarrass yourselves. Yates famously said in MD he doesn't think he could beat peak Ronnie. Do you think he meant it?

Also why do supposedly darkened screencaps of '99 get endlessly pooh-poohed, yet the Yates side is allowed to endlessly post a one-off shot from the front, in a studio, IN BLACK AND WHITE as definitive evidence of somekind. Not only is it not definitive, but it's not even admissable. Can we see his lower body from the back? Have we any indication that in colour and from the back he'd be the same condition as he ever was on stage? I'm guessing at some 20lb above contest weight that's completely impossible, so do yourselves a favour and stop childishly clinging to something totally meaningless.

Yates was great, but Craig Titus and King Kamali look like world beaters in their own kitchens with the right lighting in their best pose. Then they get onstage and the stage lights change everything. Yates knew this, so why don't you guys?

Immortal_Technique

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #595 on: February 15, 2010, 06:59:48 AM »
Argumentum ad populum none of those quotes prove Ronnie was better , just prove a lot of people think he was better. and you typed above in another post ' what's left to argue ' and yet here you are in yet another Dorian Yates thread trying to prove Ronnie was better. What's funny is you'll take whoever says Ronnie is better as proof but when Ronnie says he couldn't beat Dorian you call him stupid  ::) if anything his point of view trumps everyone else and even then it doesn't make it true

learn how to argue without using fallacious arguments

What? All you do is post quotes.

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #596 on: February 15, 2010, 07:10:53 AM »
Quote
Anyone who thinks he really meant Arnold and Haney would also beat him knows nothing of bodybuilding or human speech

ND is pretty famous on these forums for knowing nothing about either.
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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #597 on: February 15, 2010, 07:13:01 AM »
What? All you do is post quotes.

of course he does.

because real life shows ronnie was far better.

its the same old story with the nuthuggers.

its not about showing how dorian was better physique wise.

its only about coming up with ways to discredit the visuals that show ronnie was better.

thats it.

its about as weak as you can get.

they don't have evidence.

they only have excuses for the evidence that shows how much better ronnie was.. ::)
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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #598 on: February 15, 2010, 07:15:12 AM »
Quote
Argumentum ad populum none of those quotes prove Ronnie was better ,

by themselves? probably  not.

but take that quote and corroborate it with real life visuals to support it and guess what?

you have proof.

talk is sometimes bullshit (see McGough, Peter and his dorian comments lol). until you have corroborating evidence to back it up.

then you have as strong of an argument as it is possible to get..

learn this.

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Royal Lion

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #599 on: February 15, 2010, 09:02:50 AM »
by themselves? probably  not.

but take that quote and corroborate it with real life visuals to support it and guess what?

you have proof.

talk is sometimes bullshit (see McGough, Peter and his dorian comments lol). until you have corroborating evidence to back it up.

then you have as strong of an argument as it is possible to get..

learn this.


Again, the only talk that you claim to be bullshit is that supporting Dorian.  Face it, Hulkster, you are so blinded by your pathetic Dorian hate that you are biased to the point of incompetancy. I understand how Ronnie fans prefer Ronnie -- he was a freak and perhaps the best ever.  However, to claim that everyone who prefers Dorian is some how wrong just shows your ignorance.  

If you were to post comparable pics of both of them at their peaks in each pose it would be close and you know it, although you can't admit it.

Also, you act like the fact that Dorian was "off" in 94, 96 (I disagree here), and 97 means Ronnie was better.  What about Ronnie in 01/02/06?  Dorian's wins these years were due to IFBB politics, right?  Yet Ronnie's somehow weren't?  Again, you brush aside any valid argument that shows they were close becaue for some reason YOU ARE MORTIFIED OF DORIAN . . .  :-*