Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine

[timfogarty]

so you are saying the mayo clinic only treats millionaires? they treat no one other than people who can prove they are millionaires?  how fucking stupid do you sound?  you are also telling me that people who aren't millionaires suffer? you are kidding right? my parents weren't millionaires and we always had good healthcare..dental care,,,eyeglasses..etc..hey..i was even born in a hospital you fucking pinhead...who sounds like a stupid fuck now...

ah, you do.

US medical system great for 1) people who can afford their own care, and 2) people who have insurance who don't get denied coverage.

US medical system terrible for 1) people who don't have insurance, and 2) people who think they have insurance but who's insurance company denies them coverage on a technicality.   as was pointed out, #1 is 1 in 6 Americans, and #2 is 1 in 6 Americans with a catastrophic illness who thought their insurance would cover it.

[tbombz]

Because he's a kid who doesn't have to support himself to understand what is really going on. I can understand where you're coming from because you have grown up to what you think is best. I have not nor do I want to.

coach your political idealogy reflects your need to feel superior to those who have little. 

[YngiweRhoads]

coach your political idealogy reflects your need to feel superior to those who have little. 

I find this to be a very common attitude unfortunately.

[tbombz]

Succinct, quality post.

You're making some very good points in this thread tbombz. Why aren't you propagandised and deluded like yor fellow Americans?


The Luke

why thank you, though dont throw all americans under the bridge..its only an isolated fragment of our population who make the rest of us look bad.

why am I able to think rationally about political issues? i guess because i love the truth more than i love my ego.

[chaos]

because i love the truth more than i love my ego.

LMAO, if that was true you wouldn't be juicing for untruthful and temporary gains to satisfy your ego.

[tbombz]

LMAO, if that was true you wouldn't be juicing for untruthful and temporary gains to satisfy your ego.

hahahahaha yes, your so right. perfect argument. check, mate.     

[chaos]

hahahahaha yes, your so right. perfect argument. check, mate.     

"you're"........and we're suppose to buy into your genius political and steroid advice?

haha

[The Luke]

Lots of bashing here... very little cogent argument.


The Luke

[tbombz]

"you're"........and we're suppose to buy into your genius political and steroid advice?

haha

your not supposed to buy into anything, your supposed to recognize accurate information and truth in logic...

[Coach is Back!]

coach your political idealogy reflects your need to feel superior to those who have little. 

Not true, when you get a job, take half your pay check, pay taxes, buy a home and have your taxes being raised for no reason....that'll be your wake up call.

[rockyfortune]

ah, you do.

US medical system great for 1) people who can afford their own care, and 2) people who have insurance who don't get denied coverage.

US medical system terrible for 1) people who don't have insurance, and 2) people who think they have insurance but who's insurance company denies them coverage on a technicality.   as was pointed out, #1 is 1 in 6 Americans, and #2 is 1 in 6 Americans with a catastrophic illness who thought their insurance would cover it.

typical talking points..did you get this stuff from rachel maddow or keith olbermann...how many of these people that you say don't have insurance chose not to purchase insurance and use emergency rooms as their own private health insurance programs?  for those that don't have health insurance because of affordability--pennsylvania has a chip program for children--and free clinics supported paid for by taxes...hospitals nowadays don't throw people out on the streets when emergency care is needed...

as for castastrophic illness.....--i'm sure it happens---it shouldn't...but the way you make it sound people are people turned down left and right and left to die...that's simply wrong.  should a whole healtcare system be overhauled because some people have health insurance issues..that's crazy....and to say health care would be soundly run by a government that can barely run what it has now is pretty damn naive.  just because someone disagrees with your viewpoint doesn't make someone sound stupid. 

[timfogarty]

typical talking points..did you get this stuff from rachel maddow or keith olbermann..

facts tend to have a liberal bias.

hospitals nowadays don't throw people out on the streets when emergency care is needed...

no, they just force you into bankruptcy later

should a whole healtcare system be overhauled because some people have health insurance issues..that's crazy....and to say health care would be soundly run by a government that can barely run what it has now is pretty damn naive. 

no one is asking for socialized medicine.  we're not even trying to get single payer, even though I think that is the best solution.  The most basic reforms are being blocked by the insurance industry because it will cut into their profit margin.

just because someone disagrees with your viewpoint doesn't make someone sound stupid. 

says the guy who keeps calling people stupid

[rockyfortune]

facts tend to have a liberal bias.

no, they just force you into bankruptcy later


no one is asking for socialized medicine.  we're not even trying to get single payer, even though I think that is the best solution.  The most basic reforms are being blocked by the insurance industry because it will cut into their profit margin.

says the guy who keeps calling people stupid

''facts'' tend to bent towards the individuals bias...

i'm not the one who started the name calling..that was big_mal who decided he couldn't come up with anything more intelligent to say than calling me stupid..you chimed in later.

again...what's the percent of the people forced into bankruptcy because they chose not to have insurance compared to those who honestly could not pay for it...

i'm in agreement..no one should be denied healthcare..but to change something that works fairly well right now because a certain group doesn't like it doesn't make sense...ok, also in agreement that insurance companies are blocking changes..but blame the politicians...democrats, republicans, conservatives and liberals alike for that--the insurance companies couldn't do it..if the lawmakers didn't allow it.

[timfogarty]

''facts'' tend to bent towards the individuals bias...

I was quoting Steve Colbert

again...what's the percent of the people forced into bankruptcy because they chose not to have insurance compared to those who honestly could not pay for it...

if you are poor and have a catastrophic illness, you get Medicaid (which is different than Medicare) and usually don't get the cutting edge treatments.  the hospitals know your situation and only do things that Meidcaid covers.  the group that usually ends up in bankruptcy are those who have insurance, get the procedures, but have their coverage denied after the fact.  see you are usually required to sign this document that says if your insurance doesn't pay, you agree to.

i'm in agreement..no one should be denied healthcare..but to change something that works fairly well right now because a certain group doesn't like it doesn't make sense...

but by all measures, our health care system doesn't work fairly well.   we spend more per person than any other western country, yet are far from the top on many different measurements of quality.

[rockyfortune]

if you are poor and have a catastrophic illness, you get Medicaid (which is different than Medicare) and usually don't get the cutting edge treatments.  the hospitals know your situation and only do things that Meidcaid covers.  the group that usually ends up in bankruptcy are those who have insurance, get the procedures, but have their coverage denied after the fact.  see you are usually required to sign this document that says if your insurance doesn't pay, you agree to.

but by all measures, our health care system doesn't work fairly well.   we spend more per person than any other western country, yet are far from the top on many different measurements of quality.

oh..i don't watch him much...

well..i wish it could be solved...it's a huge problem--a problem created by shoddy government and corruption--it does need to be changed but i'd be hard pressed to agree we need to do it now...our economy is in shambles and we have other pressing issues.

[dr.chimps]

coach your political idealogy reflects your need to feel superior to those who have little. 

Quite common among those who are 'self-made.' They've worked hard for their dough and refuse to share any of it. Hence the expression: 'no one steps harder on his fellow man than the self-made man.'

[Coach is Back!]

Quite common among those who are 'self-made.' They've worked hard for their dough and refuse to share any of it. Hence the expression: 'no one steps harder on his fellow man than the self-made man.'

I'd be willing to bet I've shared more willfully that you have from it being stolen from you.

[Captain Equipoise]

You guys want a reason to socialize medicine ?? ever watch the movie John Q, with Denzel Washington ?!!? that's a pretty good reason, not to get denied by a greedy insurance company because your son needs a $140,000 surgery..  people keep thinking of it like social assistance or welfare, except they fail to realize that there's a pretty good chance in the course of one's natural life they're gonna need some kind of expensive procedure or emergency treatment. I would rather pay a few extra dollars in taxes and live carefree knowing my gov't will take care of me if I have to undergo a serious surgical procedure then save those few dollars and be completely screwed and shit out of luck if something does happen.

[Coach is Back!]

You guys want a reason to socialize medicine ?? ever watch the movie John Q, with Denzel Washington ?!!? that's a pretty good reason, not to get denied by a greedy insurance company because your son needs a $140,000 surgery..  people keep thinking of it like social assistance or welfare, except they fail to realize that there's a pretty good chance in the course of one's natural life they're gonna need some kind of expensive procedure or emergency treatment. I would rather pay a few extra dollars in taxes and live carefree knowing my gov't will take care of me if I have to undergo a serious surgical procedure then save those few dollars and be completely screwed and shit out of luck if something does happen.

1. Hospitals cannot refuse treatment...it's illegal.

2. Whats to say if someone needed a transplant and has it, the government refused to authorize the rejection medication needed to keep this person alive because it's too expensive? If you want to go to the extream, there it is.

[jesusbod]

Yep.

That's what's happened in the rest of the developed world.

It's not so bad... doctors drive Porsches instead of Lamborghinis; but they don't have to pay: student debt; malpractice insurance; etc etc

However, everyone is covered (less crime, less suffering, less stress), and when your ELECTIVE NON-SERIOUS surgery is bumped back two weeks so the hospital can do a transplant... at least you can console yourself that things could be worse: you could be an American happily paying a grand a month for coverage who just got denied surgery for his dodgey knee and can't change providers 'cos now you have  pre-existing condition.

I'd rather pay thosand bucks a year in taxes.

Let the doctors drive Porsches, so the poor can sleep at night.



The Luke 

I can see your point, but the biggest thing is the United States was built on Capitalist principles.. That is the reason so many people want to come here. I can't say it is right or wrong, but I would rather have Sky's the limit on how much I can make and be successful in life. I have health insurance I pay out of my pocket. I am relatively healthy, I carry catastrophic  coverage with quarterly allowable visits and 100% cancer treatment if I need. I pay $157.00 a month. I would rather take that then have to worry about waiting in line as with what happens in Canada and other places.  Just my take.. My needs are just that, mine.

[rockyfortune]

You guys want a reason to socialize medicine ?? ever watch the movie John Q, with Denzel Washington ?!!? that's a pretty good reason, not to get denied by a greedy insurance company because your son needs a $140,000 surgery..  people keep thinking of it like social assistance or welfare, except they fail to realize that there's a pretty good chance in the course of one's natural life they're gonna need some kind of expensive procedure or emergency treatment. I would rather pay a few extra dollars in taxes and live carefree knowing my gov't will take care of me if I have to undergo a serious surgical procedure then save those few dollars and be completely screwed and shit out of luck if something does happen.

hospitals and doctors don't allow people to die...
the govt pays a portion of anti-rejection meds fees...the person has to come up with the rest...
john q is one of the most far fetched movies--poor example---no insurance company could ever survive if they did that...

[Coach is Back!]

Yep.

That's what's happened in the rest of the developed world.

It's not so bad... doctors drive Porsches instead of Lamborghinis; but they don't have to pay: student debt; malpractice insurance; etc etc

However, everyone is covered (less crime, less suffering, less stress), and when your ELECTIVE NON-SERIOUS surgery is bumped back two weeks so the hospital can do a transplant... at least you can console yourself that things could be worse: you could be an American happily paying a grand a month for coverage who just got denied surgery for his dodgey knee and can't change providers 'cos now you have  pre-existing condition.

I'd rather pay thosand bucks a year in taxes.

Let the doctors drive Porsches, so the poor can sleep at night.



The Luke 

Sorry dude, health care isn't a right and all doctors are not equal in skills even if it is the field. If you want health care pay for it, if not suffer. People all the time spend more on shit they don't need as opposed to taking care of themselves or their family.

[dr.chimps]

I'd be willing to bet I've shared more willfully that you have from it being stolen from you.

Sorry, Coach. Just making a point. I didn't mean for you to take it personally.  

/willingly?

[rockyfortune]

Sorry dude, health care isn't a right and all doctors are not equal in skills even if it is the field. If you want health care pay for it, if not suffer. People all the time spend more on shit they don't need as opposed to taking care of themselves or their family.

most pre existing conditions have an exclusionary period attached to them..meaning if you have a dodgy knee you may not be able to get service on that knee for six months or a year...

[timfogarty]

1. Hospitals cannot refuse treatment...it's illegal.

hospitals cannot refuse emergency treatment.  they certainly don't have to do transplants if you cannot pay for it.

2. Whats to say if someone needed a transplant and has it, the government refused to authorize the rejection medication needed to keep this person alive because it's too expensive? If you want to go to the extream, there it is.

insurance companies are already doing that.  why is that ok?