Me 3 weeksout 77kg

[Mons Venus]

My glutes fat is stubburn

Serious question: Are you gay kyomu?

[che]

A calorie is a calorie is a calorie...

If you just look at the macro-nutrients it does not matter if you take in all your carbs from pineapple or rice.

As I said it might give you cravings and you'll probably feel better with more complex carbs as the blood sugar levels are more stable but besides that ..

Oh brother

[dave19]

Oh brother

So basically what you're saying is "  " and "Oh brother" ... solid arguments right there.

Well I know that it works this way not only in theory but also in practice through first-hand experiences.

[che]

So basically what you're saying is "   " and "Oh brother" ... solid arguments right there.

Well I know that it works this way not only in theory but also in practice through first-hand experiences.

If you think that 1000calories from white granulated sugar and 1000calories from sweet potato or rice are the same  and they are going to have the same effect on your muscles ,there is nothing to argue about.

[Meso_z]

So basically what you're saying is "   " and "Oh brother" ... solid arguments right there.

Well I know that it works this way not only in theory but also in practice through first-hand experiences.

I've got first hand experience too.

At my last competition, i used to eat a banana (simple carbs) every morning. 1 medium banana = 25 grms of carbs (simple carbs).

Now, at 9 weeks out, i figured out that i had to take that banana off my diet and... boom... im leaner than i was these weeks out from my previous contest.

Now imagine if kyomu, these last weeks which are very important, would take off that half pound of pine hes eating a day=70 simple carbs=useless

[MORTALCOIL]

When you're dieting down, specially as a natural (which means no T3/T4), everything has an impact. The glycemic index induced by the carbs you eat will have an impact on your water retention and you don't want your glycemia to be a rollercoaster which will make you lose muscle mass and get softer by holding water at the same time.

[dave19]

If you think that 1000calories from white granulated sugar and 1000calories from sweet potato or rice are the same  and they are going to have the same effect on your muscles ,there is nothing to argue about.

Ok micro-nutrients aside , where is the difference ? The human body breaks all carbs down to glucose which is then stored in your muscles and liver with the help of insulin.

The total amount of insulin needed to store the glucose is the same in both cases. The sugar will create a much higher insulin peak and blood sugar levels will drop faster of course. This can cause cravings and make you feel tired. Note that the amount of energy is the same though .. feeling tired does not automatically mean having less energy (talking about energy in a physical way)

I'm not saying that it's the best way to do it , all I'm saying is that it won't matter in terms of fat-loss or strength/muscle-wise. It might make it harder for you to stick to your diet .. but it can also make it easier. Instead of just eating plain rice you can just try eating fruits for example (which to me taste a lot better) and spread your meals out a bit. Will also make your blood sugar levels more stable.

What I also noticed is that if i get most of my carbs from simple sugars I tend to look "fuller" in comparison to the same amount of complex carbs.
My theory is that a high insulin peak will force your body to store a lot of the blood sugar in your muscles instead of just using your liver as storage.
Usually sugar is first stored in your liver and then in your muscles .. which is why it can be quite hard to carb-load in one day if you were completely depleted before. Takes a while..

[dave19]

Water retention is the same no matter if the carbs are complex or not. 1 gram of sugar binds 4 grams of water in your body - no matter from what source the sugar comes.

Of course lowering your carb intake will make you look leaner , but my point is it does not matter from what source the carbs come from.

If you cut out 50g carbs from rice or 50g carbs from fruits - both will make you loose fat faster and loose some water to the same degree.

And what do you mean with "useless" carbs ? People tend to think that simple sugars can't be used as energy .. which is of course utter bullshit.

The body can store simple sugars just as long as it can store complex carbs... they are both stored as the same , no difference... in fact the body can't use complex carbs as energy straightaway .. it needs to break them down.

[che]

Are you a natural bodybuilder Dave 19 ?

[dave19]

Are you a natural bodybuilder Dave 19 ?

I am not , but of course I was at some point.

But this is universal no matter if you're natural or not .. not everything changes as soon as you hop on the juice

Again I'm not saying that this is the best way to do it , hope you got my point.

[MORTALCOIL]

Water retention is the same no matter if the carbs are complex or not. 1 gram of sugar binds 4 grams of water in your body - no matter from what source the sugar comes.

Of course lowering your carb intake will make you look leaner , but my point is it does not matter from what source the carbs come from.

If you cut out 50g carbs from rice or 50g carbs from fruits - both will make you loose fat faster and loose some water to the same degree.

And what do you mean with "useless" carbs ? People tend to think that simple sugars can't be used as energy .. which is of course utter bullshit.

The body can store simple sugars just as long as it can store complex carbs... they are both stored as the same , no difference... in fact the body can't use complex carbs as energy straightaway .. it needs to break them down.

If I recall correctly, it's 2,6 grams of water for 1g of carb. What you're saying is not wrong at all, it's just incomplete. Having 50g of carbs, simple or complex, will differ with the GI those carbs induce. That's also why it's adviced to have a certain amount of fibers, so that you can control your glycemia. For someone dieting down "naturally", this is important.

[che]

 no matter if you're natural or not ..

.

Yes it does.

[dave19]

If I recall correctly, it's 2,6 grams of water for 1g of carb. What you're saying is not wrong at all, it's just incomplete. Having 50g of carbs, simple or complex, will differ with the GI those carbs induce. That's also why it's adviced to have a certain amount of fibers, so that you can control your glycemia. For someone dieting down "naturally", this is important.

Was not sure about the exact numbers , my fault. Of course you want to try keep your glycemia low during a diet - but 50g of carbs , complex or simple will always be broken down to the same amount of blood sugar. The GI just shows you how big the initial insulin spike is. The amount of insulin needed is always the same , no matter if 50g complex carbs or sugar. With complex carbs it means your blood sugar levels are just slightly raised but for a longer period of time will simple sugars will result in high blood sugar levels for a short amount of time. So same amount of blood sugar , same amount of insulin .. no difference in fat loss. And why is it different for naturals ? I don't get it .. it's not that these basic things change when you start using gear.

Btw. never tried anything like T3 or any other fatburners cause there's no need for them .. losing fat is simple.

[Stavios]

Woa. But that too much no?
I wont cut that much water.
I prefer going down 2kg more to squeez my physique in these 2 weeks.

why would you even cut water if you are natural

I'll say it again, you need to get in touch with Layne.
Seems like Paco doesn't know how to work with naturals, at least Layne understand how the body works

[MORTALCOIL]

Was not sure about the exact numbers , my fault. Of course you want to try keep your glycemia low during a diet - but 50g of carbs , complex or simple will always be broken down to the same amount of blood sugar. The GI just shows you how big the initial insulin spike is. The amount of insulin needed is always the same , no matter if 50g complex carbs or sugar. With complex carbs it means your blood sugar levels are just slightly raised but for a longer period of time will simple sugars will result in high blood sugar levels for a short amount of time. So same amount of blood sugar , same amount of insulin .. no difference in fat loss. And why is it different for naturals ? I don't get it .. it's not that these basic things change when you start using gear.

Btw. never tried anything like T3 or any other fatburners cause there's no need for them .. losing fat is simple.

I was not referring to the gear but to thyroid hormones, although gear does help you save LBM while dieting down, remember your test levels are also induced by the fat you eat and store (sterols). Of course, you will need the same amount of insulin but on a longer time frame. Which will also allow to stabilize your metabolism so to speak. Fro example, if dieting, you only have about 1800-2000 calories/day, with 35% of it being carbs, why not have it all at once then? Because your insulin will peak then you atually will go into hypoglycemia after a while, which is catabolic.

[che]

why would you even cut water if you are natural

.
Seems like Paco doesn't know how to work with naturals, at least Layne understand how the body works

Exactly

[dave19]

I was not referring to the gear but to thyroid hormones, although gear does help you save LBM while dieting down, remember your test levels are also induced by the fat you eat and store (sterols). Of course, you will need the same amount of insulin but on a longer time frame. Which will also allow to stabilize your metabolism so to speak. Fro example, if dieting, you only have about 1800-2000 calories/day, with 35% of it being carbs, why not have it all at once then? Because your insulin will peak then you atually will go into hypoglycemia after a while, which is catabolic.

I completely agree with you on this. Gear helps to save LBM and it would be stupid to eat all your carbs at once - but in terms of fat loss it would not make a difference.

By the way I think cutting water is also important for natural bodybuilders. Of course they store less water than someone on gear but still they hold some water that you can get rid of without the use of chemicals.

[MORTALCOIL]

Sure, the weight loss comes from the calorie deficit. But if you lose too mcuh LBM, tour basic metabolism will go down which will make the calorie deificit even more difficult to reach. That's a vicious circle. And yes, naturals also need to cut water at one point, but not too soon as they don't rely on diuretics, if you cut drastically your water, you probably will have the opposite effect, your electrolyte balance will get fucked up and you'll retain whatever drop of water you drink. You need to cut it progressively and get enough to still store that glycogen.

[kyomu]

Sure, the weight loss comes from the calorie deficit. But if you lose too mcuh LBM, tour basic metabolism will go down which will make the calorie deificit even more difficult to reach. That's a vicious circle. And yes, naturals also need to cut water at one point, but not too soon as they don't rely on diuretics, if you cut drastically your water, you probably will have the opposite effect, your electrolyte balance will get fucked up and you'll retain whatever drop of water you drink. You need to cut it progressively and get enough to still store that glycogen.

good post.

[WillGrant]

good post.

Add stana,prop and tren ace - 3 weeks ago

[Schmoe Buster]

Add stana,prop and tren ace - 3 weeks ago

X2

[Meso_z]

Add stana,prop and tren ace - 3 weeks ago

he has already, dont worry. 

[kyomu]

he has already, dont worry. 

Regardless of your insulting me with calling that i am a lier indirectly,
If I win or do good in those upcoming contests, i will prove myself of being drug free going to a doping rab.

Just I recommend you to quit self justification by accusing me as a drug user. Its very sad.

[Van_Bilderass]

why would you even cut water if you are natural

I'll say it again, you need to get in touch with Layne.
Seems like Paco doesn't know how to work with naturals, at least Layne understand how the body works

I agree. Layne would/could get Kyomu ripped to shreds. However, he might need to lose more weight than he wants to. Kyomu does not have any water retention in his quads. If the cuts don't show it's fat.

[kyomu]

I agree. Layne would/could get Kyomu ripped to shreds. However, he might need to lose more weight than he wants to. Kyomu does not have any water retention in his quads. If the cuts don't show it's fat.

You dont know shit and dont like that.
I am prepared to be 50kg if necessary.