Author Topic: Police State - Official Thread  (Read 1016757 times)

225for70

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #275 on: May 27, 2011, 03:24:09 PM »
Abuse of police power can happen to anyone. 

It's just happens to the police with a greater frequency.

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #276 on: May 27, 2011, 03:24:17 PM »
Probably not.... you're taking what happens to maybe .001% of the population and trying to act like it's happening all over the place.

Correct.  We have nearly a million law enforcement personnel in this country.  

kcballer

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #277 on: May 27, 2011, 03:31:18 PM »
No kidding TU. We are all guilty until proven innocent now.

Not at all.  You are presumed dangerous until proven otherwise.  That is different.  And that stems from the need to protect oneself and the community at large. 
Abandon every hope...

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #278 on: May 27, 2011, 03:37:25 PM »
It's just happens to the police with a greater frequency.

Um, wouldn't all abuse of police power happen to the police? 

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #279 on: May 27, 2011, 03:38:40 PM »
No... I will post in this thread, because it's in the right area and the topic starter is keeping it on point and not bitching and moving it to the girls board.

You can still go fuck yourself.

LOL!


Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #280 on: May 27, 2011, 03:39:08 PM »
somebody needs to get tu his blankie.

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #281 on: May 27, 2011, 04:13:55 PM »
Just read this report.  According to this, the police were announcing in English and Spanish who they were for 30 minutes: 

At 9:34 a.m., the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish: "It's the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. Anyone inside the house, come out with your hands up, no weapons in your hands."

Complex drug probe triggered SWAT raid
By Fernanda Echavarri Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:01 am

The man shot and killed by SWAT officers, as well as his brother and another man, were listed as suspects in a complex drug investigation being conducted by the Sheriff's Department, according to documents released Thursday.

That investigation was the reason heavily armed SWAT officers went to Jose Guerena's house to serve a search warrant that ended in his fatal shooting May 5, reports show.

More than 500 pages of officers' statements, evidence lists and witness interviews were released by the Pima County Sheriff's Department. Also released were audiotapes from the shooting scene, radio transmissions and other communications made by law enforcement personnel during the serving of search warrants on four homes on the southwest side.

A short video showing Pima County Regional SWAT team members serving the warrant was also released. The written documents detail what sheriff's personnel did during the incident.

The short video recording shows that deputies approaching Jose Guerena's home turned the sirens on for a few seconds as they approached. It also shows them announcing themselves, then knocking down the front door and firing their guns.
Audiotapes reveal that no SWAT officers entered Guerena's house. Law enforcement officers went into his home only after a robot was sent in and it was determined about an hour after the shooting that Guerena, a former Marine, was dead.

The reports state Jose Guerena; his brother, Alejandro; and Jose Celaya were named as suspects in briefings given to officers before the search warrants were served. Many of the officers' reports refer to the sheriff's long-term drug investigation as the reason for the search warrants.

Reports show about $100,000 in cash, marijuana and firearms were seized that morning from the four homes that were searched.

Items found in Jose Guerena's house included: a Colt .38-caliber handgun, paperwork, tax returns, insurance papers, bank statements and a bank card, reports showed.

Another report said detectives found body armor in a hallway closet and a U.S. Border Patrol hat in the garage.
Some search warrant documents remained sealed and were not released Thursday.

Dramatic video

In the video released by the Sheriff's Department, about five SWAT team members are seen jumping out of the vehicle with shields, helmets and bulletproof vests, all marked "POLICE" across the front and back. The sirens stop and the officers begin shouting "Police, search warrant, open the door," alternating with the same command in Spanish three times before they break down the front door of Guerena's house.

A couple of seconds after the door is opened, one officers says, "Hit him," and all the officers begin shooting from the doorway.

One of the officers falls down a couple of seconds after they open fire, and then all SWAT team members back away from the door, the video shows.

The Sheriff's Department said previously that Guerena pointed an AR-15 rifle at officers as they entered the home. It was determined that Guerena did not fire at officers.

At 9:34 a.m., the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish: "It's the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. Anyone inside the house, come out with your hands up, no weapons in your hands."

Michael Storie, an attorney representing the five SWAT officers who shot at Guerena, said last week that all those officers were separated immediately after the shooting so they could be interviewed and provide objective statements of what happened. The audiotapes reveal that after about 45 minutes, all the SWAT officers are together. They can be heard talking about what happened, according to tape recordings made at the scene.

"That was um, like a movie, the way he jumped out," said the SWAT team leader.

"Well, he waited, he waited and once Hector came up ..." said another SWAT member just before being interrupted by the SWAT leader who said, "What did he say?" Hector is the name of one of the SWAT officers.

Two other voices say they "couldn't hear anything" and that they didn't know if Jose Guerena said anything before the shooting began.

"He yelled something, 'I got something for you' or something," the SWAT leader told them, according to the audiotapes.
The Sheriff's Department said previously that Guerena said something as he pointed his gun at officers.

"I just started boom, boom, boom, boom," said another voice on the tape.

"Yeah, we were all out of ammo when we got back," the SWAT leader said.

While this conversation is going on outside, the robot was sent into the house to check on Jose Guerena, who was shot at least 60 times.

A SWAT deputy directed the robot into the home and observed Guerena lying face down in the kitchen area.

The deputy operating the robot used its arm to apply pressure to Guerena to see if he would respond.

He then used the robot to push down on Guerena's lower and middle back several times but received no response.

While outside, a SWAT member asked the team leader if they were going inside the house. The team leader can be heard on the tape saying no, and the team member said, "Why not? ... Might as well finish what I started."

The deputy operating the robot did not see Guerena's chest rising or falling, as if he were breathing, and said he was "Code 900" or dead, about 50 minutes into the audiotape.

One officer wrote in a report that in a briefing before the incident he was told there was an ongoing narcotics investigation and that suspects may be linked to a double homicide.

Other officers were briefed about a double slaying in Tucson in which a man and his wife were killed during a home invasion that was witnessed by the couple's young daughter.

According to a report, a detective interviewing Jose Guerena's younger brother, Jesus Gerardo Guerena, asked him about the slayings of Manuel and Cynthia Orozco. Jesus Guerena said he knew the couple because they were related to his brother Alejandro's wife.

According to Star archives, Manuel and Cynthia Orozco were killed during a home invasion in March 2010.

A second home

A second SWAT team served a search warrant at a nearby house in the 6200 block of Oklahoma Street at the same time as the shooting. Later that morning officers also served a warrant at two other houses all related to the same investigation, the reports show.

Detective John Mawhinney wrote in his report that he conducted a search of the residence in the 6200 block of West Oklahoma Street in connection with this case and found a large shoebox full of cash under a bed.

A later tally showed the box contained nearly $94,000. He also found a bag of marijuana in the stove and ammunition, his report stated.

Inside the home on Oklahoma, a report states, an AK-47 rifle was found. Guns and ballistic vests were found at several of the residences, the reports show.

Seven vehicles were also found at the house on Oklahoma. Several reports indicated drug dogs used in searches at the house alerted officers to the smell of narcotics on most of the vehicles there.

While investigators were searching the Oklahoma residence, a pickup truck pulled up to the house. A report states that Alejandro Guerena was driving the truck. He was detained.

The report states Alejandro Guerena told investigators there was a "pistola" in the truck. Detectives recovered a .45-caliber handgun from the vehicle.

WIFE INTERVIEWED

Also released were statements made after the shooting by Vanessa Guerena, Jose Guerena's wife.

She and the couple's young son were in the home at the time of the shooting.

She described having to talk to her 4-year-old son about his father after he asked what had happened to his dad. She told him he had been shot but would be OK.

"All I want to know, if he's alive," she told a detective.

The detective replied: "I'm sorry, he died."

"No! What were you guys thinking?" she said.

The detective told her the team was serving a search warrant and "never intended on shooting him. That was not the intention."

Vanessa Guerena said her husband was left alone for a long time after the shooting.

She said her son told her, "Mommy, I saw my daddy on the floor, with all this blood. What happened? Is he gonna be OK?' "

The Sheriff's Department would not comment on the reports and tapes.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_ffd3cd6b-6564-59a9-8b43-a1635ae66bd4.html

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #282 on: May 27, 2011, 04:44:13 PM »
Thats the first time in this type of situation I've read that SWAT calls out for someone for about 30 minutes. Is that usual procedure cause all I ever see is movement so fast it doesnt allow anyone time to react.

All they found was weed from what I gather, another reason to legalize the fucking stuff already.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #283 on: May 27, 2011, 06:00:15 PM »
Look at the damn tape.  30 minutes my ass.   More lying.

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #284 on: May 27, 2011, 06:10:12 PM »
Look at the damn tape.  30 minutes my ass.   More lying.

They are reporting on what the audiotapes show, not what the police say the audiotapes show.  Sounds like the reporter actually listened to the tapes.  At least that's the way I read the article.  ("the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish")

Soul Crusher

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #285 on: May 27, 2011, 06:19:17 PM »
Did you watch the video I posted? 

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #286 on: May 27, 2011, 06:26:14 PM »
Did you watch the video I posted? 

I watched two of the videos you posted. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #287 on: May 27, 2011, 06:28:34 PM »
I'm gonna post the wifes entire statement later. I believe her over the cops.

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #288 on: May 27, 2011, 06:39:12 PM »
I'm gonna post the wifes entire statement later. I believe her over the cops.

In the short clip I saw of her, she did not sound believable, but I'll watch a longer statement if you have one.

But what about the reporter apparently saying he/she listened to the audio of the cops announcing their presence for 30 minutes?  Do you interpret that part of the article the same way? 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #289 on: May 27, 2011, 07:45:12 PM »
I watched the video. Where are they saying the thirty min occured? 

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #290 on: May 27, 2011, 08:30:54 PM »
I watched the video. Where are they saying the thirty min occured? 

I got if from the article I posted: 

At 9:34 a.m., the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish: "It's the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. Anyone inside the house, come out with your hands up, no weapons in your hands."

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #291 on: May 27, 2011, 10:41:46 PM »
What typically happens in a case like this is some segments of the public immediatley condemn the officers before the investigation is complete. When that happens, you can pretty much discont their opinions as biased.

It really shows the level of ignorance when it is suggested in cases where there is a potential for violence that regular street cops knock on the door and announce they are there, then wait patiently while the people inside grab weapons and destroy evidence. That "it is there job they signed on for" is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have read on Getbig.

I've been in law enforcement over 25 yrs and I've assisted in removing unfit officers from the force. I've called a duck a duck in every case, weighing all the facts and circumstances. I wish some segments of the public would educate them on what it actually takes to arrest bad guys on a regular basis instead of running off at the mouth about shooting the guns out of their hands or judo chopping unconcious instead of firing at someone with a knife who is charging you, as I have actually heard ignorant people suggest.

The fact police officers have in the past killed innocent people in high stress situations making bad decisions is tragic and obviously something we train hard not to do. I have personally drawn my weapon in probably over a hundred instances making high risk felony stops, arresting people who are armed, or had committed violent crimes and likely armed. I've never shot anyone. Of the 1600 sworn on the force, only about 10 have ever shot anyone. There is a lot of restraint shown on a regular basis. I've had situations where I could have legally shot someone and at risk to myself took a calculated risk and did not. I know many others who have done the same

Lets let the facts come to light before we conclude what they should or should not have done in this case 

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #292 on: May 27, 2011, 10:43:51 PM »
You should only fire your weapon if you or someone you know is in imminent danger.

It's why you can't shoot someone in the back.

I agree... and if an AR 15 is pointed at me I am in imminent danger...wtf??

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #293 on: May 27, 2011, 10:47:49 PM »
According to the law, constiution, and presumption of innocence lik we are all afforded.   

Most cops are of the mind set that you are guilty until proven innocent.   

Another thing - cops are supposed to hand you the warrant for review and you let them in.   If the guy smashes the dor closes, then they go in. 

From what i can tell in the video - there was may 10 seconds at best of muddles yelling at the door before they bashed it in like gestapo jack booted thugs. 

You watch too many movies... cops are NOT required to hand you the warrant at the time of service but have a signed warrant available to show when the scene is secure.

The classic "let me see the warrant before you come in " is just for the movies

Dos Equis

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #294 on: May 27, 2011, 10:53:44 PM »
What typically happens in a case like this is some segments of the public immediatley condemn the officers before the investigation is complete. When that happens, you can pretty much discont their opinions as biased.

It really shows the level of ignorance when it is suggested in cases where there is a potential for violence that regular street cops knock on the door and announce they are there, then wait patiently while the people inside grab weapons and destroy evidence. That "it is there job they signed on for" is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have read on Getbig.

I've been in law enforcement over 25 yrs and I've assisted in removing unfit officers from the force. I've called a duck a duck in every case, weighing all the facts and circumstances. I wish some segments of the public would educate them on what it actually takes to arrest bad guys on a regular basis instead of running off at the mouth about shooting the guns out of their hands or judo chopping unconcious instead of firing at someone with a knife who is charging you, as I have actually heard ignorant people suggest.

The fact police officers have in the past killed innocent people in high stress situations making bad decisions is tragic and obviously something we train hard not to do. I have personally drawn my weapon in probably over a hundred instances making high risk felony stops, arresting people who are armed, or had committed violent crimes and likely armed. I've never shot anyone. Of the 1600 sworn on the force, only about 10 have ever shot anyone. There is a lot of restraint shown on a regular basis. I've had situations where I could have legally shot someone and at risk to myself took a calculated risk and did not. I know many others who have done the same

Lets let the facts come to light before we conclude what they should or should not have done in this case 

Agree.  It takes a special person to risk his or her life to be a public servant.  Tough job.  Thanks for your service. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #295 on: May 27, 2011, 10:58:08 PM »
I simply ask. Do you feel you have a right to point a gun at someone else more than the average citizen does?

If you think you do. Then I'm sorry. But you are in fact a fascist.

Holmes, lets exit la la land for just a minute and discuss this. Police are citizens and some citizens are police. I actually have MORE rules regarding the use of my weapon than the average citizen. You have state law, I not only have the same state law, but I am also given additional rules with General Orders and Standard Operating Procedures.

Without police you would be in a world of trouble if you thought about it. Your dream of having no police would quickly become a nightmare. Someone has to keep the thugs from destroying the good people. Someone has to stop the drunks from driving their cars into your families SUV, arrests the rapists and killers, keep the freeways from becoming high speed death traps.. the list goes on.

Reasonable people realized that in order to do that job, which isn't so easy, we would need some protections. Some of the rules are if we are in uniform, displaying a badge  and all the trappings that let you know we are police, you can't point a gun at us. We have been screened and the odds are a lot better I am not the drug smuggling home invasion human trafficking suspect...so in that case... sorry, but tie goes to the police..

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #296 on: May 27, 2011, 11:07:57 PM »
So you're saying you DO have more of a right to point a gun than I do?

Can you be more specific? If you come home from work tonight, and you are attacked by a man in a jogging suit who knocks you to the ground and starts to pull out a gun while yelling "You stole my money I'm gonna kill you" then you have the exact same right as me to shoot the man.

If I am clearing a warehouse at night due to a burglar alarm and I come around the corner and we see each other at the same time, me in police uniform and you in plain street clothes, my right to point my weapon at you trumps your right to point your weapon at me. Does that make sense to you?

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #297 on: May 27, 2011, 11:16:29 PM »
I appreciate your specificity but I think its wrong. Maybe I own the warehouse. Maybe you aren't a real cop.

Perhaps I think you are the one who set the alarm off.

The fact that you feel that your badge allows you to point a gun at me is what's fucked up. I certainly wouldn't pull a gun on someone just because they are there.

Did you read the article about the guy in Pennsylvania I posted?

What do you have to say about that?



If the people just go with your word. Then you're saying that your word means more than mine and that all cops words mean more. That's how the police state starts.

I won't be silent. Sorry.

I'm sorry, your statements show you and I are just too far apart to continue any meaningful dialogue

Soul Crusher

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #298 on: May 28, 2011, 04:18:30 AM »
Question for beach and agnostic.   

Do you guys agree with the statement

"it's better for 100 guilty men to go free than for 1 innocent man to be convicted"

Soul Crusher

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #299 on: May 28, 2011, 05:06:32 AM »
This Is Your War on Drugs
Friday, May 27th, 2011
We have another video of a raid by the Columbia Police Department. The action starts at 5:30. There’s more violence. More perfunctory dog killing. (I didn’t hear a single menacing growl, and the dogs were shot while retreating.) There’s more careless tossing of flash grenades. (They threw five, then, bizarrely, two more “to prove that the previous 5 grenades had done no damage.”) This raid, once again, was for marijuana.

I’ve become somewhat inoculated to the outrage in many these stories. I think you probably need to in order to write about this stuff every day. But I was shaking while watching this one. Then I let out a string of profanities. Then I gave my dog a hug.

All of which is why you need to watch it. And help distribute it as far and wide as the Columbia raid video from last year. This isn’t like watching video of a car accident or a natural disaster. This doesn’t have to happen. You’re watching something your government does to your fellow citizens about 150 times per day in this country. If this very literal “drug war” insanity is going to continue to be waged in our name, we ought to make goddamned sure everyone knows exactly what it entails. And this is what it entails. Cops dressed like soldiers breaking into private homes, tossing concussion grenades, training their guns on nonviolent citizens, and slaughtering dogs as a matter of procedure.

More details from the good people at Keep Columbia Free.



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This entry was posted on Friday, May 27th, 2011 at 9:31 pm by Radley Balko and is filed under General Drug War, Police Militarization. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.


http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/27/this-is-your-war-on-drugs-2/




Video at site.    Ridiculous.