Police State - Official Thread

[Agnostic007]

Play CBS News Video
(CBS News)  Congress holds its first hearings Monday on the "gunwalker scandal" that CBS News first uncovered back in February.


Officials at the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) encouraged gun shops to sell thousands of assault rifles and other weapons destined for Mexican drug cartels.



On "The Early Show" Friday, CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reported those who defend the strategy say their goal was to let the little fish go -- to get the big fish. But insiders say, in the process, lives were needlessly put in danger.


Attkisson initially broke the story for CBS News.


Last June, about nine months into the ATF operation known as "Fast and Furious," suspects had "purchased 1,608 firearms for over $1 million in cash transactions at various Phoenix-area gun shops," according to internal documents obtained by CBS News. The documents indicate ATF already knew that 179 of those very weapons had turned up at crime scenes in Mexico, and 130 in the U.S.

Issa subpoenas ATF over gunwalking allegations
ATF agent cooperates in gunwalking investigation
Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico


Yet, ATF allowed some of the same suspects -- accused of being middlemen for Mexican drug cartels -- to continue to buy and transfer assault weapons. Sometimes, agents say, they videotaped the buys, but didn't interdict the guns.


Documents indicate intentions were good. The idea, according to those documents, was to "allow the transfer of firearms" to pinpoint big cartel crooks rather than the small-time traffickers supplying them.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/10/earlyshow/main20070475.shtml#ixzz1QDq9f0Qv


Looky what I found.....

[Soul Crusher]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING? 

Damn bro - you are seriously a boot licker for the govt.  The DOJ has not complied with Issa' requests and has sent only a few docs and even at that were HIGHLY redacted. 

Go read through my thread.  Damn bro - seriously - wake the hell up. 

2009 Obama and Hillary were slamming gun dealers and sayng guns wer flooding the border WHILE THEY WERE FORCING THE FUCKING DEALERS TO DO THIS AGAINST THEIR WISHES! 

Guess why? 

[Soul Crusher]

Traffic tickets to cost Tennesseans more
WSVM ^ | 06/24/2011 | WSVM

________________________ __________________


NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -Tennesseans could be charged up to nearly $70 more for traffic tickets under a new state law that takes effect next month and is intended to fund crime lab services for law enforcement agencies.


The law that takes effect July 1 adds $13.75 onto each traffic violation, and motorists can be cited for as many as five violations on a single ticket.


The fee applies only to people who chose not to contest their tickets in court and pay the fine before a court date or a compliance date.


Proceeds will help offset the costs of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation's crime lab services.


But motorists complain the extra charge is too much on top of already expensive fines.


Sen. Randy McNally, a Republican from Oak Ridge, sponsored the legislation, which he said was necessary to prevent massive TBI layoffs or increased costs to local law enforcement agencies that need the lab services to investigate crimes.


(Excerpt) Read more at wsmv.com ...



________________________ ______________

And what happens if everyone drives as they say and no tickets get written?  Oh wait - its abut safety, not revenue . . . . . . .

[Agnostic007]

Traffic tickets to cost Tennesseans more
WSVM ^ | 06/24/2011 | WSVM

________________________ __________________


NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -Tennesseans could be charged up to nearly $70 more for traffic tickets under a new state law that takes effect next month and is intended to fund crime lab services for law enforcement agencies.


The law that takes effect July 1 adds $13.75 onto each traffic violation, and motorists can be cited for as many as five violations on a single ticket.


The fee applies only to people who chose not to contest their tickets in court and pay the fine before a court date or a compliance date.


Proceeds will help offset the costs of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation's crime lab services.


But motorists complain the extra charge is too much on top of already expensive fines.


Sen. Randy McNally, a Republican from Oak Ridge, sponsored the legislation, which he said was necessary to prevent massive TBI layoffs or increased costs to local law enforcement agencies that need the lab services to investigate crimes.


(Excerpt) Read more at wsmv.com ...



________________________ ______________

And what happens if everyone drives as they say and no tickets get written?  Oh wait - its abut safety, not revenue . . . . . . .

Then drive legally, no problem...

[Dos Equis]

I got pulled over the other day for an expired safety sticker.  My wife's car.     Got off with a warning.  Cop was friendly.  I was friendly.  Not a big deal. 

Now, if I had been pointing a video camera at him as he approached my car, I bet I would have gotten a ticket. 

[Soul Crusher]

Did you read the article?   The funding for the lab is based on anticipated revenue by writing a certain amount of tickets.  and you wonder why people feel this whole thing is a sham?    

[Soul Crusher]

I got pulled over the other day for an expired safety sticker.  My wife's car.     Got off with a warning.  Cop was friendly.  I was friendly.  Not a big deal. 

Now, if I had been pointing a video camera at him as he approached my car, I bet I would have gotten a ticket. 

Beach - do you wear a high and tight? 

[Dos Equis]

Beach - do you wear a high and tight? 

Nope.  Why?

[Agnostic007]

Did you read the article?   The funding for the lab is based on anticipated revenue by writing a certain amount of tickets.  and you wonder why people feel this whole thing is a sham?    

Listen up...


I can go back and review tickets written from 2008, 2009, 2010 and within the ballpark, predict tickets written for 2011. People violate traffic laws. You can count on it. Wish they didn't but they do. Cops write tickets for those violations on occassion... no mystical conspiracy here..   

[Skip8282]

Documents indicate intentions were good. The idea, according to those documents, was to "allow the transfer of firearms" to pinpoint big cartel crooks rather than the small-time traffickers supplying them.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/10/earlyshow/main20070475.shtml#ixzz1QDq9f0Qv


Looky what I found.....

And?  Their intentions are completely immaterial.  If a guy's wife goes into labor on the freeway and rushes to get her to the hospital and kills people because of his rush, his intentions are good, but he's going to prison.

These guys should get exactly the same thing.

[Soul Crusher]

Free Republic
Browse · Search   Pings · Mail   News/Activism
Topics · Post Article
Skip to comments.

Supreme Court puts extra burden on crime labs
The Los Angeles Times ^ | June 24, 2011 | David G. Savage
Posted on June 24, 2011 8:04:06 PM EDT by Lurking Libertarian

The Supreme Court on Thursday put an extra burden on crime labs, declaring that a man accused of drunken driving has the right to demand that a lab technician testify in person about a blood test that showed he was impaired.

The 5-4 decision was the latest to extend the reach of a defendant's constitutional right "to be confronted with the witnesses against him." And once again, the outcome was driven by an unusual coalition of conservative and liberal justices.

Two years ago, the court said a crime lab technician was a witness for the prosecution and, therefore, must be available to testify. In Thursday's decision, the court went a step further, saying it will not suffice to send any technician or lab analyst who can explain the testing. Rather, the prosecution must supply the same technician who conducted the blood test and signed to certify the result.

"We hold that surrogate testimony … does not meet the constitutional requirement," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote for the court majority, which also included Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan. The Constitution does not permit shortcuts, the court said, and in many cases, a crime lab report is the prosecution's strongest evidence.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...






Good decision. 

[Agnostic007]

And?  Their intentions are completely immaterial.  If a guy's wife goes into labor on the freeway and rushes to get her to the hospital and kills people because of his rush, his intentions are good, but he's going to prison.

These guys should get exactly the same thing.

Intentions are taken into consideration in both cases. Called mitigating circumstances and used in court all the time

[Soul Crusher]

Intentions are taken into consideration in both cases. Called mitigating circumstances and used in court all the time

That is only sentencing.    Not in innocence or guilt.

[Agnostic007]

That is only sentencing.    Not in innocence or guilt.

During sentencing yes,

But during the initial phase of filing charges and during trial intentions are important. some crimes require culpable states of the mind, i.e. negligent, intentional, gross negligence, knowing, should have known, are some elements of an offense.

As someone argued it's only the results that matter. Not correct. If I intentionally murder you, it is a different charge than if I kill you through negligence (manslaughter). That is just one of several examples.     

[Agnostic007]

Not in the course of another crime. If I kill someone in course of robbing a bank or stealing a car. Even of it's an accident. That's murder. No matter if you meant to do it or not.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about

[Hugo Chavez]

The cop was very professional in his demeanor, I'll give him that. The yard issue is irrelevant though it weighs in the citizens favor. For example, I can chase a bad guy, tackle him in your front yard, and be handcuffing him. You can be in your own yard, looking over my shoulder, and I would be right in telling you to get back if I felt exposed to you while performing my job of arresting the individual.
IN this particular case, reviewing the tape, arrest would not be the likely result in most cases. If an officer felt concerned they may ask to frisk the person for weapons before continuing if the person refused to leave the immediate area of the activity. They may position an officer in an "overwatch" position to keep the bystanders in observation. In this case the citizen was in error by refusing the officers request, but the officer was also in error by resorting to arrest to solve the safety concern.

I just listened to Ian Punnett on Coast to Coast AM tonight.  The entire show was devoted to this.  It was a really great show, several members of law enforcement called in from all over the country.  They had as a main guest, George DeAngelis, former assistant chief of police in El Paso, TX, and professor of criminology at Park University.  They covered this topic and a lot more around law enforcement.  It was a really great show.  Almost all of the cops seemed to agree that this cop went to far but there was also points made in favor of understanding what goes on at a scene...  If anyone wants to watch it, it'll probably be on youtube tomorrow, search it, it was good...

[Hugo Chavez]

here it is:  Good show....

(posted under FAIR USE for commentary and criticism)

[roccoginge]

There's a video on Alex Jones's site showing the Rochester police ticketing all the protestors for curb violation on all of their parked cars, pathetic.

[Agnostic007]

Not in the course of another crime. If I kill someone in course of robbing a bank or stealing a car. Even of it's an accident. That's murder. No matter if you meant to do it or not.

I think it is a separate issue. There is culpability dealing with what someone will be charged with, and at what level.

"Murder" is a generic term. There is negligent homicide, manslaughter, capital murder etc etc.

You statement is not correct as it stands. If I am stealing a car, and in the course of stealing a car, I accidentally run over a pedestrian while escaping and kill them, intentions come into play. It may be a homicide, but it may be classed as a 2nd degree felony rather than 1st degree.

There are exceptions to that rule too. If I kill someone I kidnapped then it is 1st degree.. if I kill more than one person in a single episode it would be 1st, if I kill a police officer, or elderly or handicapped etc etc.   

[Skip8282]

Intentions are taken into consideration in both cases. Called mitigating circumstances and used in court all the time

Not the type of intent we were talking about.  You're referring to the degree of responsibility, I was under the impression we were talking about responsibility period.

That may not have been what you meant, but when, right off the bat, you start talking about their intentions, it certainly comes across that you were trying to dismiss any responsibility they may bear for their actions.

[Agnostic007]

Not the type of intent we were talking about.  You're referring to the degree of responsibility, I was under the impression we were talking about responsibility period.

That may not have been what you meant, but when, right off the bat, you start talking about their intentions, it certainly comes across that you were trying to dismiss any responsibility they may bear for their actions.

Skip, I wasn't talking in the legal sense in the beginning if I recall correctly. It was a choice between the ATF either purposefully orchestrating the plan knowing agents would die, knowing they wouldn't be able to successfully impact gunrunning and with a deeper motive to somehow further their cause to remove guns from american citizens homes or;

They hatched the plan with the intentions of tracing the weapons to the big fish and making a positive impact.

It was my opinion and according to at least one article authors opinion after reviewing documents, that they had good intentions, but they were wrong.

I think it matters what their intention was, though they should still be held accountable.

[Option D]

Happened last year around the same day

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chipotle-deputy-shooting,0,6720848.story

this is sad.. right by my house.. like i walk to this chiptole all the time

[Agnostic007]

Happened last year around the same day

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chipotle-deputy-shooting,0,6720848.story

this is sad.. right by my house.. like i walk to this chiptole all the time

what's this world coming to?

[Skip8282]

Happened last year around the same day

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chipotle-deputy-shooting,0,6720848.story

this is sad.. right by my house.. like i walk to this chiptole all the time

There's not enough in the story.  Was the guy trying to get away or made an innocent mistake and a corrupt cop shot him?



Chipotle got good food?

[Soul Crusher]

beach, can you merge this with my police state thread?