Police State - Official Thread

[Agnostic007]

Seems to me that would be grounds to appeal a conviction.

Wonder what idiot in the PD decided to go after cops like that?  Is the union cool with this?

I've been surprised before but I have to say in reading the article and attempting to apply it to my department a couple things come to mind..

How would an I.A. Detective determine the difference between doing a "good" job and losing and doing a "good job" and winning the case? Very subjective. What is more likely and I base this purely on my experience here, there was a time when some cops would go to court for the overtime, then simply tell the prosecutor at the beginning of the morning that they couldn't recall that particular stop. The prosecutor would then have to try and plead the ticket or lose the case. The cop was dismissed and on his way home in 20 minutes with 3 hrs of OT minimum in his pocket.

So I could see where they would want to monitor something like that, but trying to determine the other stuff the article eludes to doesn't add up.

About the citizen seeing the cop write on the ticket just before the trial.... another thing that doesnt add up. Cops are usually in a room awaiting their time, not in the general public area where the citizens are. With I.A. in the building etc etc, I just find it suspicious a cop would just start writing on a ticket then just show it to someone who asked.. again.. sounds made up.

"If" the entire article is accurate, that's pretty messed up. But looking at it from the inside out, it sounds way to stupid, even for us cops, to be on the money   

[Skip8282]

What is more likely and I base this purely on my experience here, there was a time when some cops would go to court for the overtime, then simply tell the prosecutor at the beginning of the morning that they couldn't recall that particular stop. The prosecutor would then have to try and plead the ticket or lose the case. The cop was dismissed and on his way home in 20 minutes with 3 hrs of OT minimum in his pocket.

So I could see where they would want to monitor something like that, but trying to determine the other stuff the article eludes to doesn't add up.
 

Monitor?  Fuck that...we need to encourage this type of behavior from the cops.

Let's say $40 bucks an hour OT, 3 hours = $120.00

Fine = $5.00
Court Fees, Surcharges, EMS, Penalty for being alive = $150.00
Total = $155.00


So I'm estimating $35.00 savings, MINIMUM if we encourage this behavior.

I hope your memory fails on a regular basis.

Ciao

[Agnostic007]

That's not true... Every courthouse I've ever been in has the Cops sitting in the booth up front close to the bench, but still visible and accessible to the general public.

Depends Tu.. For example, any given day there may be 20 cops scheduled for trial. We always report to the prosecutor office to review our records and go over the case prior to the trial. We then wait in back until our case comes up, THEN we would move into the court room or the booth you observe us in.

Now if you are seeing 20 cops in the booth, then maybe your court does it differently

[Soul Crusher]

State agencies, colleges demand applicants' Facebook passwords (Communism around the corner)
msnbc ^ | 3/6/2012 | Bob Sullivan



If you think privacy settings on your Facebook and Twitter accounts guarantee future employers or schools can't see your private posts, guess again.

Employers and colleges find the treasure-trove of personal information hiding behind password-protected accounts and privacy walls just too tempting, and increasingly, they are demanding full access from applicants and students.

In Maryland, job seekers applying to the state's Department of Corrections have been asked during interviews to log into their accounts and let an interviewer watch while the potential employee clicks through wall posts, friends, photos and anything else that might be found behind the privacy wall.


(Excerpt) Read more at redtape.msnbc.msn.com ...

[Shockwave]

State agencies, colleges demand applicants' Facebook passwords (Communism around the corner)
msnbc ^ | 3/6/2012 | Bob Sullivan



If you think privacy settings on your Facebook and Twitter accounts guarantee future employers or schools can't see your private posts, guess again.

Employers and colleges find the treasure-trove of personal information hiding behind password-protected accounts and privacy walls just too tempting, and increasingly, they are demanding full access from applicants and students.

In Maryland, job seekers applying to the state's Department of Corrections have been asked during interviews to log into their accounts and let an interviewer watch while the potential employee clicks through wall posts, friends, photos and anything else that might be found behind the privacy wall.


(Excerpt) Read more at redtape.msnbc.msn.com ...

One thing we know, its that the government fucking hates the idea of citizens being able to keep information private from them.

[Agnostic007]

You don't stagger your docket?

yes,  but traffic court moves fast, cops coming in all day 

[Soul Crusher]

yes,  but traffic court moves fast, cops coming in all day 

Cops where I live pull scams regarding ot and traffic court near me like you can't believe.

come in for 30 minutes, make a few deals, get 4 hours OT. 

[Agnostic007]

Cops where I live pull scams regarding ot and traffic court near me like you can't believe.

come in for 30 minutes, make a few deals, get 4 hours OT. 

lawyers pull the most unethical crap you've ever seen here...

[Soul Crusher]

lawyers pull the most unethical crap you've ever seen here...

I don't do crim law, but I have a few buddies who have mattered the art of testilying to a tee.

[Agnostic007]

I don't do crim law, but I have a few buddies who have mattered the art of testilying to a tee.

I gathered from your posts you don't do criminal law. No offense

[Soul Crusher]

I gathered from your posts you don't do criminal law. No offense

 Don't.   I don't want to defend violent thugs.   

[Agnostic007]

Don't.   I don't want to defend violent thugs.   

And you have to have a grasp of what evidence means, often supporting your statements with facts. I can't recall too many cut and paste FOX news articles in criminal court.   

[Soul Crusher]

And you have to have a grasp of what evidence means, often supporting your statements with facts. I can't recall too many cut and paste FOX news articles in criminal court.   

I know crim procedure well.  I loved law school.   Great education.  considering I am in the Bronx, the worst of the worst is in crime court in the Bronx and I don't want to deal w those apes.

[Agnostic007]

I know crim procedure well.  I loved law school.   Great education.  considering I am in the Bronx, the worst of the worst is in crime court in the Bronx and I don't want to deal w those apes.

You feeling okay tonight? You seem suspiciously coherent and civil.. Long day?

[Soul Crusher]

You feeling okay tonight? You seem suspiciously coherent and civil.. Long day?

I'm always fine.   I would say 95 percent of the trash in criminal court is guilty as sin and are recidivist scum who we would be better off without. 

Having represented a few thugs in my career, no thanks.   worse than blood money to represent violent repeat offenders. 

[Hugo Chavez]

3333s hate for black > hate for police.

Enemy of my enemy and all that tonight.

3333, plays like that on the board, but is he really like that?  I have my doubts...   I don't think he's the racist he pretends to be. I have some speck of faith that 3333 actually judges people for who they are and not by their colour.

[Soul Crusher]

Oh, I'm just busting his balls... I don't think it's race with him... It's attitude and action.

It's the urban ghetto culture, not the race. 

[Soul Crusher]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/09/us-crime-newyork-statistics-idUSBRE82818620120309


Ridiculous.   

[Agnostic007]

CompStat - short for computer statistics - is a police performance management system put in place in 1995 under former NYPD Police Commissioner Bill Bratton that tracks and analyzes crime data in real time, and holds police district and precinct commanders to account for crime-fighting performance in their respective commands.

The weekly CompStat meetings - where commanders have been reduced to tears under withering attacks from their bosses, according to several media reports - soon became the stuff of police legend, and even ended up being dramatized in a scene on HBO's cop drama "The Wire."

We have the same thing here. I've attended close to 100 CompStat meetings and have yet to see a Commander reduced to tears. Can't speak for New York but I doubt too many Police Commanders cry when answering questions about crime in their precinct.

2 issues in New York as far as the article goes. 1. Crime stats being manipulated. If they are getting beat up then they probably are fudging the numbers. That's too bad. They should have been big enough to explain what they are doing to address the crime and then keep adjusting the plan until they got results. 2. Bosses fail to realize there was crime when they joined the force, thre  will be  crime when they retire.  Instead of withering questions, how about doing what CompStat was invented for, brainstorming, finding out other cities best practices or other precincts best practices for addressing the hot spots they are having..

[Agnostic007]

Didn't watch it all but did watch enough to know the narrator is clueless about drug dog handling. The officer is trained to start down wind of any area or object he is searching. In the case it was likely the front of the vehicle

The officer doesn't tell his dog to "sit". he gives the command to "seek" which is the command used to tell the dog to start sniffing for contraband.

The dog comes off the back of the suspect car towards the front of the police car only because an odor caught his curiosity. He satisfied his curiosity and moved on. Could be drugs had been placed on the hood of the patrol car in recent history during another arrest, could be the cop ate breakfast off the hood that morning. 

The video showing the dogs sitting passively as an alert are BOMB dogs and trained to not show aggression during an alert for obvious reasons. In narcotics, typically the dog will scratch, bite and try to reach the drug. Not all do, but most do and it is encouraged as it helps pinpoint the location.

At this point it became obvious to me the narrator was off base and didn't know what he was talking about.   

[Hugo Chavez]

Didn't watch it all but did watch enough to know the narrator is clueless about drug dog handling. The officer is trained to start down wind of any area or object he is searching. In the case it was likely the front of the vehicle

The officer doesn't tell his dog to "sit". he gives the command to "seek" which is the command used to tell the dog to start sniffing for contraband.

The dog comes off the back of the suspect car towards the front of the police car only because an odor caught his curiosity. He satisfied his curiosity and moved on. Could be drugs had been placed on the hood of the patrol car in recent history during another arrest, could be the cop ate breakfast off the hood that morning. 

The video showing the dogs sitting passively as an alert are BOMB dogs and trained to not show aggression during an alert for obvious reasons. In narcotics, typically the dog will scratch, bite and try to reach the drug. Not all do, but most do and it is encouraged as it helps pinpoint the location.

At this point it became obvious to me the narrator was off base and didn't know what he was talking about.   

Ok, big deal, he doesn't know the details of drug dog handling even though he posted videos to prove his point and you have only posted your opinion, but I trust you... He's a freaking trekkie geek coming from a trek show who obviously is a little upset that the officer made up a bunch of bogus crap to pull him over and search his vehicle.  Are you saying that everything else is totally normal in this video?

[Hugo Chavez]

Don't you know?

The anonymous cop Agnostic007 is supposedly more trustworthy than the person who puts his name out there on the internet for the world to see.

e

I'm not going to dog on Agnositic.  We've talked a bit and he seems like a good person to me.  He's a vet and I hope he's one of the good cops.  I'd rather just focus on debating this rather than call him out for being anonymous.

[Agnostic007]

That's funny because had you watched it, you would have seen actual drug sniffing dogs and their HANDLERS having the discussion about what drug dogs do and do not do.

You say they weren't drug dogs, but there were drug dog handlers talking about their dogs.

What's even MORE funny is how the cop has a criminal history... Of course you didn't get to that part.

I understand you are too busy to watch it though... Saving those lives and protecting the shit out of people.


Did you read any of the corresponding articles?

Doubtful... You're busy right?

http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/illinois/news/crime/new-hearing-planned-in-officer-s-legal-battle/article_c6fda5b4-c8c5-51f6-ba20-6c786c48cbef.html?mode=story

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog

I trained drug and bomb dog teams for 10 yrs. Did I really have to watch the entire clip? I saw the dog team work the car, I saw the narrators example of why he thought something was wrong.. why he thought the team started where they did, why he thought the dog sniffed near the cop car... again, having DONE that for 10 yrs, I figured the narrator had a hard on for the incident and wasn't seeing  clearly. You know, how YOU sometimes get blinded to the facts by your hatred of cops..

Now.. is it possible the dog handler induced a false response? Sure..... it's possible. However, NONE of what he talked about as reasons were pertinent   

[Agnostic007]

This board is overwhelming slanted against cops. My role here as I see it is to offer some insight into the other side. In doing so I may come across as Tu complains as a cop who never sees that a cop does wrong. I think I've said many times on many occasions that there are great cops, good cops, mediocre cops, negligent cops and bad cops. It's my perception most are good cops.

The dog teams I trained in narcotics had to be 95% accurate. They were certified annually and trained extensively on a regular weekly basis. If a dog feel below 90% the team was De-certified until they came back up to standards. There are 12 million ways to Sunday to cause a dog to give a false response. When that is done, either on purpose or accident and the dog is rewarded, it ruins the dog.

I understand the concept of residual odor. I think SOME leeway must be given for this situation, however, if I had a dog team that was out in the field finding drugs only 50% of the time the dog alerted, I would have cause to be concerned and would require re-certification testing to determine the issue. I would also review the handlers in car video to see if I could pick up on the cues causing the false alerts. If it appeared to be intentional and was a pattern, he would be history.         

[Agnostic007]

I'm not going to dog on Agnositic.  We've talked a bit and he seems like a good person to me.  He's a vet and I hope he's one of the good cops.  I'd rather just focus on debating this rather than call him out for being anonymous.

Thanks, I'm glad my intentions come across this media. Appreciate you're candor and benefit of the doubt.