Author Topic: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question  (Read 144800 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #300 on: April 17, 2014, 12:41:46 PM »
6 Joints a week is excessive not occasional.  

If you smoke 6 joints a week you are a pot head.

Basically, you can get high on 1-3 hits.  Joints prolly give you 10-30 hits.  This would mean you got "high" 60 to 150 times if you smoked 6 joints a week.  or 9 -25 times a day. lol.

that's like being drunk all day.

That's a joint a day.  I have no idea if that is excessive or "occasional," but six joints a week was the median for those who smoked. 

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #301 on: April 17, 2014, 01:00:13 PM »
That's a joint a day.  I have no idea if that is excessive or "occasional," but six joints a week was the median for those who smoked. 

It's a lot in terms of drug effect. Smoking may also be different as the liver converts THC into another more psychedelic molecule that isn't available through combustion.

OzmO

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #302 on: April 17, 2014, 01:07:24 PM »
That's a joint a day.  I have no idea if that is excessive or "occasional," but six joints a week was the median for those who smoked. 

6 joints a week is excessive.

A better way to gauge use would be to record how many times a day does a person get high. 

Getting high once a day can be compared to a 2-4 beers in an hour.

Dos Equis

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #303 on: April 17, 2014, 01:10:02 PM »
6 joints a week is excessive.

A better way to gauge use would be to record how many times a day does a person get high. 

Getting high once a day can be compared to a 2-4 beers in an hour.

Six was only the median, so some smoked less and some smoked more. 

Why do you think a joint a day is excessive? 

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #304 on: April 17, 2014, 01:18:40 PM »
Nothing concerns me here.  I'm just trying to understand your position.  You're sort of all over the place.  You previously said occasional, responsible use has no adverse effects.  When I posted this study, you then said any use by a developing brain is problematic (and the brain develops into young adulthood).  Now you're saying six joints a week is not "occasional" (which misstates what the study actually says) so you dismiss the findings of this study.

Here is what it actually says about the frequency of use:

"Half of the group said they used marijuana at least once a week, and the other 20 had not used the drug in the past year, and reported using it less than five times in their life.

Among the group that did smoke, the median use was about six joints per week."

I am all over the place because it's a complex topic in which I cannot make blanket statements. I think it's healthy, I think high doses of THC have robust health consequences. I am trying to be honest and explain the nuance to you. The thing is the body and brain have an endocannabinoid system, which is located in the limbic (amygdala) an cortex. Now the amydala is a key center for fear and emontionality. Low and high  doses of THC have paradoxical effects, low increases serotonin, high decreases. It also exerts it's effects via modulation.

I didn't dismiss the findings, the found what they found, I disagree with the conclusion. Also, why are we discussing this? you aren't even educated on this? I mean they are describing neuroadaptation, WHOAA

"["Neuroadaptation" in long-term cannabis abuse. A clinical and electroencephalographic case study].

[Article in German]

Winterer G1, Schmidt LG, Frick K, Ulrich G.


Author information




Abstract


This report is about electroencephalographic changes in a twenty-eight year old patient with longterm heavy cannabis use. He was admitted to our hospital after he had developed a depressive-apathetic syndrome. Two days after the last cannabis-intake, the patient had recovered from initial psychopathology and his EEG was completely inconspicuous at this day. Some days later however the patient's behavior became increasingly impulsive and unstable, while his EEG showed a marked disturbed regulation of vigilance. In the following weeks his impulsiveness became less and his EEG returned to normal. We suggest that these alterations may reflect a discontinuation of the initial neuroadaption of the central nervous system to the drug.
"

there were changes induced by the drug and they caused withdrawal and return.

Also, the above is research, yours is an article, you may prefer someone explain this stuff to you but I prefer reading it for myself as I can understand it just fine.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/178/2/101.long

This paper highlights the negatives of MJ, it's a review of the literature. Have a read.

There is also the complete difference in motor functioning, cognitive tasks etc when acute versus chronic .

So they found "chronic MJ uses induces neuroadaptation, but we can't say anything other then there was a change". That's all they found, the area is well known.

"Neuropharmacology. 2014 Apr 5. pii: S0028-3908(14)00109-9. doi: 10.1016/j.neuropharm.2014.03.014. [Epub ahead of print]

Prior stimulation of the endocannabinoid system prevents methamphetamine-induced dopaminergic neurotoxicity in the striatum through activation of CB2 receptors.

Nader J1, Rapino C2, Gennequin B1, Chavant F3, Francheteau M1, Makryiannis A4, Duranti A5, Maccarrone M6, Solinas M1, Thiriet N7.


Author information










Abstract


Methamphetamine toxicity is associated with cell death and loss of dopamine neuron terminals in the striatum similar to what is found in some neurodegenerative diseases. Conversely, the endocannabinoid system (ECS) has been suggested to be neuroprotective in the brain, and new pharmacological tools have been developed to increase their endogenous tone. In this study, we evaluated whether ECS stimulation could reduce the neurotoxicity of high doses of methamphetamine on the dopamine system. We found that methamphetamine alters the levels of the major endocannabinoids, anandamide (AEA) and 2-arachidonoyl glycerol (2-AG) in the striatum, suggesting that the ECS participates in the brain responses to methamphetamine. Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a cannabis-derived agonist of both CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors, or inhibitors of the main enzymes responsible for the degradation of AEA and 2-AG (URB597 and JZL184, respectively), blunted the decrease in striatal protein levels of tyrosine hydroxylase induced by methamphetamine. In addition, antagonists of CB2, but not of CB1, blocked the preventive effects of URB597 and JZL184, suggesting that only the former receptor subtype is engaged in neuroprotection exerted by ECS stimulation. Finally, we found that methamphetamine increases striatal levels of the cytokine tumor necrosis factor alpha, an effect that was blocked by ECS stimulation. Altogether, our results indicate that stimulation of ECS prior to the administration of an overdose of methamphetamine considerably reduces the neurotoxicity of the drug through CB2 receptor activation and highlight a protective function for the ECS against the toxicity induced by drugs and other external insults to the brain. This article is part of a Special Issue entitled 'CNS Stimulants'.

Oh my god it's protects da brain? it dun stop da neurotoxicity, but they said it changes the brain.

Mini Rev Med Chem. 2009 Apr;9(4):448-62.

Endocannabinoid system: emerging role from neurodevelopment to neurodegeneration.

Basavarajappa BS1, Nixon RA, Arancio O.


Author information




Abstract


The endocannabinoid system, including endogenous ligands ('endocannabinoids' ECs), their receptors, synthesizing and degrading enzymes, as well as transporter molecules, has been detected from the earliest stages of embryonic development and throughout pre- and postnatal development. ECs are bioactive lipids, which comprise amides, esters and ethers of long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids. Anandamide (N-arachidonoylethanolamine; AEA) and 2-arachidonoylglycerol (2-AG) are the best studied ECs, and act as agonists of cannabinoid receptors. Thus, AEA and 2-AG mimic several pharmacological effects of the exogenous cannabinoid delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta(9)-THC), the psychoactive principle of cannabis sativa preparations like hashish and marijuana. Recently, however, several lines of evidence have suggested that the EC system may play an important role in early neuronal development as well as a widespread role in neurodegeneration disorders. Many of the effects of cannabinoids and ECs are mediated by two G protein-coupled receptors (GPCRs), CB1 and CB2, although additional receptors may be implicated. Both CB1 and CB2 couple primarily to inhibitory G proteins and are subject to the same pharmacological influences as other GPCRs. This new system is briefly presented in this review, in order to put in a better perspective the role of the EC pathway from neurodevelopment to neurodegenerative disorders, like Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease, and multiple sclerosis. In addition, the potential exploitation of antagonists of CB1 receptors, or of inhibitors of EC metabolism, as next-generation therapeutics is discussed.

Its role in nervous system development is quite complex, I suggest you learn about g coupled proteins first.

This study had different results.

Neuropsychopharmacology. 2014 Mar 17. doi: 10.1038/npp.2014.67. [Epub ahead of print]

Long-Term Effects of Cannabis on Brain Structure.

Battistella G1, Fornari E2, Annoni JM3, Chtioui H4, Dao K4, Fabritius M5, Favrat B6, Mall JF7, Maeder P1, Giroud C5.


Author information










Abstract


The dose-dependent toxicity of the main psychoactive component of cannabis in brain regions rich in cannabinoid CB1 receptors is well known in animal studies. However, research in humans does not show common findings across studies regarding the brain regions that are affected after long-term exposure to cannabis. In the present study, we investigate (using Voxel-based Morphometry) gray matter changes in a group of regular cannabis smokers in comparison with a group of occasional smokers matched by the years of cannabis use. We provide evidence that regular cannabis use is associated with gray matter volume reduction in the medial temporal cortex, temporal pole, parahippocampal gyrus, insula, and orbitofrontal cortex; these regions are rich in cannabinoid CB1 receptors and functionally associated with motivational, emotional, and affective processing. Furthermore, these changes correlate with the frequency of cannabis use in the 3 months before inclusion in the study. The age of onset of drug use also influences the magnitude of these changes. Significant gray matter volume reduction could result either from heavy consumption unrelated to the age of onset or instead from recreational cannabis use initiated at an adolescent age. In contrast, the larger gray matter volume detected in the cerebellum of regular smokers without any correlation with the monthly consumption of cannabis may be related to developmental (ontogenic) processes that occur in adolescence.Neuropsychop harmacology advance online publication, 16 April 2014; doi:10.1038/npp.2014.67.


Again no permenant conseqeunces.


Dos Equis

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #305 on: April 17, 2014, 01:26:36 PM »
I am all over the place because it's a complex topic in which I cannot make blanket statements. I think it's healthy, I think high doses of THC have robust health consequences. I am trying to be honest and explain the nuance to you. The thing is the body and brain have an endocannabinoid system, which is located in the limbic (amygdala) an cortex. Now the amydala is a key center for fear and emontionality. Low and high  doses of THC have paradoxical effects, low increases serotonin, high decreases. It also exerts it's effects via modulation.

I didn't dismiss the findings, the found what they found, I disagree with the conclusion. Also, why are we discussing this? you aren't even educated on this? I mean they are describing neuroadaptation, WHOAA

"["Neuroadaptation" in long-term cannabis abuse. A clinical and electroencephalographic case study].

[Article in German]

Winterer G1, Schmidt LG, Frick K, Ulrich G.


Author information




Abstract


This report is about electroencephalographic changes in a twenty-eight year old patient with longterm heavy cannabis use. He was admitted to our hospital after he had developed a depressive-apathetic syndrome. Two days after the last cannabis-intake, the patient had recovered from initial psychopathology and his EEG was completely inconspicuous at this day. Some days later however the patient's behavior became increasingly impulsive and unstable, while his EEG showed a marked disturbed regulation of vigilance. In the following weeks his impulsiveness became less and his EEG returned to normal. We suggest that these alterations may reflect a discontinuation of the initial neuroadaption of the central nervous system to the drug.
"

there were changes induced by the drug and they caused withdrawal and return.

Also, the above is research, yours is an article, you may prefer someone explain this stuff to you but I prefer reading it for myself as I can understand it just fine.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/178/2/101.long

This paper highlights the negatives of MJ, it's a review of the literature. Have a read.

There is also the complete difference in motor functioning, cognitive tasks etc when acute versus chronic .

So they found "chronic MJ uses induces neuroadaptation, but we can't say anything other then there was a change". That's all they found, the area is well known.

"Neuropharmacology. 2014 Apr 5. pii: S0028-3908(14)00109-9. doi: 10.1016/j.neuropharm.2014.03.014. [Epub ahead of print]

Prior stimulation of the endocannabinoid system prevents methamphetamine-induced dopaminergic neurotoxicity in the striatum through activation of CB2 receptors.

Nader J1, Rapino C2, Gennequin B1, Chavant F3, Francheteau M1, Makryiannis A4, Duranti A5, Maccarrone M6, Solinas M1, Thiriet N7.


Author information










Abstract


Methamphetamine toxicity is associated with cell death and loss of dopamine neuron terminals in the striatum similar to what is found in some neurodegenerative diseases. Conversely, the endocannabinoid system (ECS) has been suggested to be neuroprotective in the brain, and new pharmacological tools have been developed to increase their endogenous tone. In this study, we evaluated whether ECS stimulation could reduce the neurotoxicity of high doses of methamphetamine on the dopamine system. We found that methamphetamine alters the levels of the major endocannabinoids, anandamide (AEA) and 2-arachidonoyl glycerol (2-AG) in the striatum, suggesting that the ECS participates in the brain responses to methamphetamine. Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a cannabis-derived agonist of both CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors, or inhibitors of the main enzymes responsible for the degradation of AEA and 2-AG (URB597 and JZL184, respectively), blunted the decrease in striatal protein levels of tyrosine hydroxylase induced by methamphetamine. In addition, antagonists of CB2, but not of CB1, blocked the preventive effects of URB597 and JZL184, suggesting that only the former receptor subtype is engaged in neuroprotection exerted by ECS stimulation. Finally, we found that methamphetamine increases striatal levels of the cytokine tumor necrosis factor alpha, an effect that was blocked by ECS stimulation. Altogether, our results indicate that stimulation of ECS prior to the administration of an overdose of methamphetamine considerably reduces the neurotoxicity of the drug through CB2 receptor activation and highlight a protective function for the ECS against the toxicity induced by drugs and other external insults to the brain. This article is part of a Special Issue entitled 'CNS Stimulants'.

Oh my god it's protects da brain? it dun stop da neurotoxicity, but they said it changes the brain.

Mini Rev Med Chem. 2009 Apr;9(4):448-62.

Endocannabinoid system: emerging role from neurodevelopment to neurodegeneration.

Basavarajappa BS1, Nixon RA, Arancio O.


Author information




Abstract


The endocannabinoid system, including endogenous ligands ('endocannabinoids' ECs), their receptors, synthesizing and degrading enzymes, as well as transporter molecules, has been detected from the earliest stages of embryonic development and throughout pre- and postnatal development. ECs are bioactive lipids, which comprise amides, esters and ethers of long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids. Anandamide (N-arachidonoylethanolamine; AEA) and 2-arachidonoylglycerol (2-AG) are the best studied ECs, and act as agonists of cannabinoid receptors. Thus, AEA and 2-AG mimic several pharmacological effects of the exogenous cannabinoid delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta(9)-THC), the psychoactive principle of cannabis sativa preparations like hashish and marijuana. Recently, however, several lines of evidence have suggested that the EC system may play an important role in early neuronal development as well as a widespread role in neurodegeneration disorders. Many of the effects of cannabinoids and ECs are mediated by two G protein-coupled receptors (GPCRs), CB1 and CB2, although additional receptors may be implicated. Both CB1 and CB2 couple primarily to inhibitory G proteins and are subject to the same pharmacological influences as other GPCRs. This new system is briefly presented in this review, in order to put in a better perspective the role of the EC pathway from neurodevelopment to neurodegenerative disorders, like Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease, and multiple sclerosis. In addition, the potential exploitation of antagonists of CB1 receptors, or of inhibitors of EC metabolism, as next-generation therapeutics is discussed.

Its role in nervous system development is quite complex, I suggest you learn about g coupled proteins first.

This study had different results.

Neuropsychopharmacology. 2014 Mar 17. doi: 10.1038/npp.2014.67. [Epub ahead of print]

Long-Term Effects of Cannabis on Brain Structure.

Battistella G1, Fornari E2, Annoni JM3, Chtioui H4, Dao K4, Fabritius M5, Favrat B6, Mall JF7, Maeder P1, Giroud C5.


Author information










Abstract


The dose-dependent toxicity of the main psychoactive component of cannabis in brain regions rich in cannabinoid CB1 receptors is well known in animal studies. However, research in humans does not show common findings across studies regarding the brain regions that are affected after long-term exposure to cannabis. In the present study, we investigate (using Voxel-based Morphometry) gray matter changes in a group of regular cannabis smokers in comparison with a group of occasional smokers matched by the years of cannabis use. We provide evidence that regular cannabis use is associated with gray matter volume reduction in the medial temporal cortex, temporal pole, parahippocampal gyrus, insula, and orbitofrontal cortex; these regions are rich in cannabinoid CB1 receptors and functionally associated with motivational, emotional, and affective processing. Furthermore, these changes correlate with the frequency of cannabis use in the 3 months before inclusion in the study. The age of onset of drug use also influences the magnitude of these changes. Significant gray matter volume reduction could result either from heavy consumption unrelated to the age of onset or instead from recreational cannabis use initiated at an adolescent age. In contrast, the larger gray matter volume detected in the cerebellum of regular smokers without any correlation with the monthly consumption of cannabis may be related to developmental (ontogenic) processes that occur in adolescence.Neuropsychop harmacology advance online publication, 16 April 2014; doi:10.1038/npp.2014.67.


Again no permenant conseqeunces.



So you say you "cannot make blanket statements" and in the next sentence say "I think it's healthy . . . ."  lol  Seriously?  The reason you're all over the place is because you keep making unqualified (i.e., blanket) statements.

What's pretty clear to me based on what I've read, seen, and heard is we cannot call marijuana use "healthy," harmless, etc.  Whether it should be legal is a separate question, but calling it harmless, or even "healthy" sounds pretty naive. 

Necrosis

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #306 on: April 17, 2014, 01:26:50 PM »
So based on the research my personal and professional opinion on MJ use is that it can be of utility for a variety of illnesses and can be detrimental to some (like any drug). It's side effects and public health risks are moot in terms of legalization, if alcohol is legal no argument can be made for a less harmful substance with clear medicinal effects.

Kids shouldn't use it, except as a medicine in which there is clear efficacy. This brain structure issue isn't novel either, opiates do it, amphetamines do it and yet we have kids on Adderall. Amphetamine induces dopaminergic neuronal apoptosis yet we use it in kids. These arguments aren't rational, unless you want to apply them in a cherry picked fashion.

The endocannabinoid system appears to be intimately related to neurodevelopment too (growth and differentiation of the brain).

So if we are talking about medicinal effects and usage it would be pathology related, if we are discussing legalization no rational argument exists when juxtaposed with alcohol.

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #307 on: April 17, 2014, 01:36:11 PM »
So you say you "cannot make blanket statements" and in the next sentence say "I think it's healthy . . . ."  lol  Seriously?  The reason you're all over the place is because you keep making unqualified (i.e., blanket) statements.

What's pretty clear to me based on what I've read, seen, and heard is we cannot call marijuana use "healthy," harmless, etc.  Whether it should be legal is a separate question, but calling it harmless, or even "healthy" sounds pretty naive. 



I can have an opinion but in matters of fact I cannot. We haven't even defined healthy, you are using a common fucking argumentative tactic of attacking semantics, side arguments and irrelevant point.

Good thing your opinion doesn't matter because you get your science from a newspaper. It has many healthy properties, I just fucking outlined them read what I actually posted. I don't know why I get into with you, you are a nitwit that misconstrues everything.

It's not black and white, sorry if you want it to be that simple, if you can't understand nuance then I don't know what to tell you. The substance can both be healthy are harmful depending on many variables. Alcohol is fine in the healthy but don't drink if you have hepatitis.

You didn't even make a fucking argument, you simply copy and pasted a shitty article thinking it trumps the newer research I just posted.

Your questions are also retarded, you ask me if I think it's fine and rebut me with use in children. You haven't addressed one point, just twist everything, you said it was fine, but I found this study in schizophrenics that shows it's not. That is the depth of your argument, your knowledge on the subject.

You haven't touched one study I posted that contradicts yours, proves my point. Nor have you countered my contentions about your paper.

J Addict Res Ther. 2013 Apr 24;Suppl 4. pii: 010.

A Review of Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy Studies in Marijuana using Adolescents and Adults.

Sneider JT1, Mashhoon Y2, Silveri MM1.


Author information





Abstract


Marijuana (MJ) remains the most widely used illicit drug of abuse, and accordingly, is associated with adverse effects on mental and physical health, and neurocognitive decline. Studies investigating the neurobiology of underlying MJ effects have demonstrated structural and functional alterations in brain areas that contain moderate to high concentrations of cannabinoid (CB1) receptors and that are implicated in MJ-related cognitive decrements. Proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy (1H MRS), a non-invasive imaging technique used to assess neurochemistry, has been widely applied to probe a variety of substance-abusing populations. To date, however, there is a relative paucity of MRS published studies characterizing changes in neurometabolite concentrations in MJ users. Thus, the current review provides a summary of data from the eight existing MRS studies of MJ use in adolescents and adults, as well as interpretations and implications of study findings. Future MRS studies that address additional factors such as sex differences, onset and duration of use, abstinence and age, are warranted, and would lead to a more thorough characterization of potential neurochemical correlates of chronic MJ use, which would fill critical gaps in the existing literature.
"

Here this paper is none sensationalized, are we done here yet or have I raped you hard enough? Would you like the full paper? it goes through all the imaging studies (your study is one).

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #308 on: April 17, 2014, 01:44:27 PM »


What's pretty clear to me based on what I've read, seen, and heard is we cannot call marijuana use "healthy," harmless, etc.  Whether it should be legal is a separate question, but calling it harmless, or even "healthy" sounds pretty naive. 


This is meaningless, it's not harmless, either is drinking large amounts of water and running in place. It's relatively harmless compared with other legal drugs. It is less harmful then Tylenol, that's a fact. It's toxicity is absolutely astounding and it's impairment no more then a cup of coffee.

I am sure Montell Williams would disagree with you saying it's not healthy. it fits the fucking definition of healthy in many regards.

It's a neuroprotectant fact
It has potential anti cancer effects
Helps seizures
Reduces inflammation
Improves digestion, reduces IBS
is  a bronchodialator.
Is an anxiolytic
reduces chronic stress (remember all those PTSD studies you read?)

Are we done yet or are you going to cherry pick some more? maybe you could find a grey area to exploit.

Dos Equis

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #309 on: April 17, 2014, 02:04:03 PM »

I can have an opinion but in matters of fact I cannot. We haven't even defined healthy, you are using a common fucking argumentative tactic of attacking semantics, side arguments and irrelevant point.

Good thing your opinion doesn't matter because you get your science from a newspaper. It has many healthy properties, I just fucking outlined them read what I actually posted. I don't know why I get into with you, you are a nitwit that misconstrues everything.

It's not black and white, sorry if you want it to be that simple, if you can't understand nuance then I don't know what to tell you. The substance can both be healthy are harmful depending on many variables. Alcohol is fine in the healthy but don't drink if you have hepatitis.

You didn't even make a fucking argument, you simply copy and pasted a shitty article thinking it trumps the newer research I just posted.

Your questions are also retarded, you ask me if I think it's fine and rebut me with use in children. You haven't addressed one point, just twist everything, you said it was fine, but I found this study in schizophrenics that shows it's not. That is the depth of your argument, your knowledge on the subject.

You haven't touched one study I posted that contradicts yours, proves my point. Nor have you countered my contentions about your paper.

J Addict Res Ther. 2013 Apr 24;Suppl 4. pii: 010.

A Review of Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy Studies in Marijuana using Adolescents and Adults.

Sneider JT1, Mashhoon Y2, Silveri MM1.


Author information





Abstract


Marijuana (MJ) remains the most widely used illicit drug of abuse, and accordingly, is associated with adverse effects on mental and physical health, and neurocognitive decline. Studies investigating the neurobiology of underlying MJ effects have demonstrated structural and functional alterations in brain areas that contain moderate to high concentrations of cannabinoid (CB1) receptors and that are implicated in MJ-related cognitive decrements. Proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy (1H MRS), a non-invasive imaging technique used to assess neurochemistry, has been widely applied to probe a variety of substance-abusing populations. To date, however, there is a relative paucity of MRS published studies characterizing changes in neurometabolite concentrations in MJ users. Thus, the current review provides a summary of data from the eight existing MRS studies of MJ use in adolescents and adults, as well as interpretations and implications of study findings. Future MRS studies that address additional factors such as sex differences, onset and duration of use, abstinence and age, are warranted, and would lead to a more thorough characterization of potential neurochemical correlates of chronic MJ use, which would fill critical gaps in the existing literature.
"

Here this paper is none sensationalized, are we done here yet or have I raped you hard enough? Would you like the full paper? it goes through all the imaging studies (your study is one).

So to recap, you have been talking out of both sides of your mouth in this thread.  Including the following:

Quote

It is literally a wonder drug, you have all been lied too. I would know,I have literally read every paper related to health on the subject, there are literally no side effects when done appropriately and the addiction is on par with coffee as is the intoxication.

It is the number one medicinal substance in the world, no other compound has all of these benefits and robustly so.



Quote

Long term, there are no consequences if you start in adult hood


Quote
So based on the research my personal and professional opinion on MJ use is that it can be of utility for a variety of illnesses and can be detrimental to some (like any drug). It's side effects and public health risks are moot in terms of legalization, if alcohol is legal no argument can be made for a less harmful substance with clear medicinal effects.

Kids shouldn't use it, except as a medicine in which there is clear efficacy.



Quote
I am all over the place because it's a complex topic in which I cannot make blanket statements. I think it's healthy, I think high doses of THC have robust health consequences.


So you've said:  It's a wonder drug, it is healthy, it literally has no side effects when used "appropriately," high doses are healthy, kids should not use, those with developing brains shouldn't use.  But it "can be detrimental."  

This is comical.  lol  

I think I'll stick with Ablow's opinion over yours. 

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #310 on: April 17, 2014, 02:09:16 PM »
Six was only the median, so some smoked less and some smoked more. 

Why do you think a joint a day is excessive? 

I already explained that smoking a joint in a day is like being drunk all day

Dos Equis

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #311 on: April 17, 2014, 02:26:08 PM »
I already explained that smoking a joint in a day is like being drunk all day

Are you saying being high impairs someone in the same way as being drunk?

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #312 on: April 17, 2014, 02:34:20 PM »
So to recap, you have been talking out of both sides of your mouth in this thread.  Including the following:








So you've said:  It's a wonder drug, it is healthy, it literally has no side effects when used "appropriately," high doses are healthy, kids should not use, those with developing brains shouldn't use.  But it "can be detrimental."  

This is comical.  lol  

I think I'll stick with Ablow's opinion over yours. 

There is literally no contradiction in anything I said there.

I said high doses were unhealthy, but that's not odd that you would completely misrepresent me. I even see the sentence you got that from and I was implying that it has certain negative consequences which can be robust like induction of psychosis. It is a wonder drug for many conditions, again no contradiction. The issue here is you aren't all that bright.

Your study had no conclusion on negative or positive you pleb, what opinion are you talking about?

Again where am I talking out of both sides of my mouth?

recreationally ther eis no argument
It is a wonder drug for intractable seizure, adhd, forms of OCD, pain, Nausea etc.
It shouldn't be given to kids unless medicinal (ie kids shouldn't be getting high)
It has detrimental effects which are dose dependent. The studies I posted corroborate this,not someone's discussion.
Let's do this with alcohol

It has benefits (anxiety reduction, mood lift) but is also detrimental, it has dose related effects. Long term is depletes thiamine causing confabulations and an illness, that isn't an acute effect, so acute versus chronic is different. In low doses it may have benefits even, for the liver, mental health etc, the heart, so is it good or bad Beach Bum? neither, it's a complex topic that you need to have an understanding of to discuss rationally. This will be my last response as I am not interested in debating with someone who hasn\t addressed one point and thinks he has caught me in his web of intellectual dishonesty. A substance exhibiting confounding effects isn't new, all things in moderation.

You do this a lot, move the goal posts, won't define terms, rebut a wall of text an arguments with a semantic argument.

Believe what you want, the facts are out there.

Its you who are confused, probably because you have no idea what you are talking about.

OzmO

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #313 on: April 17, 2014, 02:42:24 PM »
Are you saying being high impairs someone in the same way as being drunk?

Depends on the context of what you are comparing it to.

An alcohol buzz is different than being high.

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #314 on: April 17, 2014, 03:39:26 PM »
....

So you've said:  It's a wonder drug, it is healthy, it literally has no side effects when used "appropriately," high doses are healthy, kids should not use, those with developing brains shouldn't use.  But it "can be detrimental."  

This is comical.  lol  

I think I'll stick with Ablow's opinion over yours. 

This discussion of whether pot (or freakin' anything) is "healthy" or "harmless" is near meaningless.

Reminds me of the Katt Williams bit about weed where he questions why aspirin is legal but pot is not;  With aspirin, he points out, if you take 13 of those mofo's it'll be your last damn headache...as opposed to weed which is basically impossible to OD on.

Per little Katt, the principle effects of weed are:  Hungry, Happy, Sleepy.





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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #315 on: April 17, 2014, 05:17:25 PM »
There is literally no contradiction in anything I said there.

I said high doses were unhealthy, but that's not odd that you would completely misrepresent me. I even see the sentence you got that from and I was implying that it has certain negative consequences which can be robust like induction of psychosis. It is a wonder drug for many conditions, again no contradiction. The issue here is you aren't all that bright.

Your study had no conclusion on negative or positive you pleb, what opinion are you talking about?

Again where am I talking out of both sides of my mouth?

recreationally ther eis no argument
It is a wonder drug for intractable seizure, adhd, forms of OCD, pain, Nausea etc.
It shouldn't be given to kids unless medicinal (ie kids shouldn't be getting high)
It has detrimental effects which are dose dependent. The studies I posted corroborate this,not someone's discussion.
Let's do this with alcohol

It has benefits (anxiety reduction, mood lift) but is also detrimental, it has dose related effects. Long term is depletes thiamine causing confabulations and an illness, that isn't an acute effect, so acute versus chronic is different. In low doses it may have benefits even, for the liver, mental health etc, the heart, so is it good or bad Beach Bum? neither, it's a complex topic that you need to have an understanding of to discuss rationally. This will be my last response as I am not interested in debating with someone who hasn\t addressed one point and thinks he has caught me in his web of intellectual dishonesty. A substance exhibiting confounding effects isn't new, all things in moderation.

You do this a lot, move the goal posts, won't define terms, rebut a wall of text an arguments with a semantic argument.

Believe what you want, the facts are out there.

Its you who are confused, probably because you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm not confused.  I'm simply quoting you.  Was genuinely trying to understand your position, but I can see you're felling a little challenged.  lol

I'm giving more weight to what I read from Alblow and other sources, including this from him (posted earlier):

"Research studies show that cannabis users are at a 40 percent increased risk of psychosis. Research studies show that marijuana may well be a risk factor for schizophrenia, depression and anxiety disorders.

And research shows that marijuana is linked to a syndrome in which people have little motivation to pursue goals and interests that they once found compelling."

It's ok if you disagree. 

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #316 on: April 17, 2014, 05:19:09 PM »
Depends on the context of what you are comparing it to.

An alcohol buzz is different than being high.

I'm trying to use your context.  You said smoking a joint a day is like being drunk all day.  What I'm asking is whether you think the effects of smoking a joint in a day are the same as someone being drunk?  

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #317 on: April 17, 2014, 05:22:04 PM »
This discussion of whether pot (or freakin' anything) is "healthy" or "harmless" is near meaningless.

Reminds me of the Katt Williams bit about weed where he questions why aspirin is legal but pot is not;  With aspirin, he points out, if you take 13 of those mofo's it'll be your last damn headache...as opposed to weed which is basically impossible to OD on.

Per little Katt, the principle effects of weed are:  Hungry, Happy, Sleepy.






Ok.  That clip made me laugh out loud.   ;D

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #318 on: April 17, 2014, 05:46:22 PM »
I'm trying to use your context.  You said smoking a joint a day is like being drunk all day.  What I'm asking is whether you think the effects of smoking a joint in a day are the same as someone being drunk?  

No, but if you drank lets say a case and a half thought he course of a 12 hour day, you would prolly be buzzed most of the day.  If you took 2-3 hits from a joint and smoked it every 1-2 hours during a 12 hour day you would be high all that time too.  That being said, high and drunk are 2 different things, but they are both forms of being intoxicated. 

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #319 on: April 17, 2014, 05:48:29 PM »
No, but if you drank lets say a case and a half thought he course of a 12 hour day, you would prolly be buzzed most of the day.  If you took 2-3 hits from a joint and smoked it every 1-2 hours during a 12 hour day you would be high all that time too.  That being said, high and drunk are 2 different things, but they are both forms of being intoxicated. 

Thanks.  So when people smoke a joint, they don't smoke the whole thing at once like a cigarette? 

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #320 on: April 17, 2014, 07:59:47 PM »
Thanks.  So when people smoke a joint, they don't smoke the whole thing at once like a cigarette? 

Not typically.  Plus now a days people smoke a bowl more often then a joint.   Still the same thing though, take few hits, get high, it lasts 1-2 hours until it fully wears off. 

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #321 on: April 18, 2014, 04:00:19 AM »
I'm not confused.  I'm simply quoting you.  Was genuinely trying to understand your position, but I can see you're felling a little challenged.  lol
You cannot understand my position because you haven't read anything I posted, simply attacked an inconsistency that when examined is false anyway. How am I challenged, I legitimately was trying to give you information but you seem to be trolling. That's fine.
I'm giving more weight to what I read from Alblow and other sources, including this from him (posted earlier):

"Research studies show that cannabis users are at a 40 percent increased risk of psychosis. Research studies show that marijuana may well be a risk factor for schizophrenia, depression and anxiety disorders.
I have agreed with that in principle. What type of anxiety disorder? OCD or GAD? PTSD? because it's been found very helpful for PTSD. if I post that study his point isn't clear now is it. Is he confused too or perhaps you are placing to much weight into one study that gave us no insight.
And research shows that marijuana is linked to a syndrome in which people have little motivation to pursue goals and interests that they once found compelling."
I have already addressed both your points and you are wrong.

Rev Med Liege. 2013 May-Jun;68(5-6):281-6.

[So called "soft" drugs: cannabis and the amotivational syndrome].

[Article in French]

Schmits E1, Quertemont E.


Author information




Abstract


In spite of its soft drug reputation, severe cannabis abuse can produce a number of adverse chronic effects. Whereas the majority of consumers make a ((soft)) use of cannabis, there is a minority of problematic cannabis users. However, many of cannabis chronic effects are still controversial, especially regarding the causal nature of their relationship with cannabis use. There is a scientific consensus to claim that cannabis induces a state of dependence in a small proportion of users. Severe abuse of cannabis can also lead to cognitive impairments, especially on memory, although these effects usually improve after the cessation of cannabis use. The statistical link between cannabis use and the development of psychotic disorders is more worrying, although the causal nature of this relationship remains controversial. Finally, a chronic abuse of cannabis is reputed to induce an amotivational syndrome, mainly characterized by a state of apathy. Although the symptoms of the amotivational syndrome are in keeping with some clinical observations, it remains difficult to ascertain whether this clinical picture is causally produced by cannabis abuse.

Oh my god he might be jumping the gun, stick with his opinion as you clearly haven't read a single thing I posted.

Worst troll ever.



It's ok if you disagree. 
Disagree with what? I said it causes an increased risk of psychosis, you must of missed my first post where I go through most of the shit he mentions. Do you know your ignorant? serious question.

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #322 on: April 18, 2014, 04:46:32 AM »
Another study confirming my point

Exp Clin Psychopharmacol. 2012 Oct;20(5):420-9. doi: 10.1037/a0029117. Epub 2012 Jun 25.

Residual effects of cannabis use on neurocognitive performance after prolonged abstinence: a meta-analysis.

Schreiner AM1, Dunn ME.


Author information




Abstract


Cannabis is the most widely used illicit drug in the U.S., and the number of illicit and licit users is rising. Lasting neurocognitive changes or deficits as a result of use are frequently noted despite a lack of clarity in the scientific literature. In an effort to resolve inconsistencies in the evidence of lasting residual effects of cannabis use, we conducted two meta-analyses. First, we updated a previous meta-analysis on broad nonacute cognitive effects of cannabis use through inclusion of newer studies. In a second meta-analysis, we focused on evidence for lasting residual effects by including only studies that tested users after at least 25 days of abstinence. In the first meta-analysis, 33 studies met inclusion criteria. Results indicated a small negative effect for global neurocognitive performance as well for most cognitive domains assessed. Unfortunately, methodological limitations of these studies prevented the exclusion of withdrawal symptoms as an explanation for observed effects. In the second meta-analysis, 13 of the original 33 studies met inclusion criteria. Results indicated no significant effect of cannabis use on global neurocognitive performance or any effect on the eight assessed domains. Overall, these meta-analyses demonstrate that any negative residual effects on neurocognitive performance attributable to either cannabis residue or withdrawal symptoms are limited to the first 25 days of abstinence. Furthermore, there was no evidence for enduring negative effects of cannabis use.


No long term seqeulae, it's neuroadaptation. This is also a META ANALYSIS. the very best study for truth one can conduct in most instances.

http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/7zd3g/cannabis_is_a_safer_drug_than_aspirin_and_can_be/

safer then aspirin? a oxford trained scientist who is a foremost expert on cannabinoids disagrees with your one study that actually had no conclusion.

I will use this thread as a repository of correct information on the drug just to rub Beach bums ass.

"injections of THC, the active principle of cannabis, eliminate dependence on opiates (morphine, heroin) in rats deprived of their mothers at birth.  The findings could lead to therapeutic alternatives to existing substitution treatments."
I bet it's because it reduces dopamine known to be addicting. I wonder if you could make that connection genius?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090706090440.htm

AND THE TOPPER

BRAND SPANKING FUCKING NEW 2014

Schizophr Res. 2014 Jan;152(1):283-8. doi: 10.1016/j.schres.2013.11.014. Epub 2013 Dec 2.

A controlled family study of cannabis users with and without psychosis.

Proal AC1, Fleming J2, Galvez-Buccollini JA2, Delisi LE3.


Author information






Abstract


BACKGROUND:

Cannabis is one of the most highly abused illicit drugs in the world. Several studies suggest a link between adolescent cannabis use and schizophrenia. An understanding of this link would have significant implications for legalization of cannabis and its medicinal value. The present study aims to determine whether familial morbid risk for schizophrenia is the crucial factor that underlies the association of adolescent cannabis use with the development of schizophrenia.

METHODS:

Consecutively obtained probands were recruited into four samples: sample 1: 87 non-psychotic controls with no drug use; sample 2: 84 non-psychotic controls with cannabis use; sample 3: 32 patients with a schizophrenia spectrum psychosis with no drug use; sample 4: 76 patients with schizophrenia spectrum psychosis with cannabis use. All cannabis using subjects used this drug during adolescence, and no other substance, with the exception of alcohol. Structured interviews of probands and family informants were used to obtain diagnostic information about probands and all their known relatives.

RESULTS:

There was an increased morbid risk for schizophrenia in relatives of the cannabis using and non-using patient samples compared with their respective non-psychotic control samples (p=.002, p<.001 respectively). There was no significant difference in morbid risk for schizophrenia between relatives of the patients who use or do not use cannabis (p=.43).

CONCLUSIONS:

The results of the current study suggest that having an increased familial morbid risk for schizophrenia may be the underlying basis for schizophrenia in cannabis users and not cannabis use by itself.

Ug oh, looks like I have been spot on. Perhaps you jumped to an unfounded conclusion based on a single article in which you misinterpreted.

ANOTHER LOLOLOLOL

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/03/us-pot-induced-psychosis-idUSTRE4A26JV20081103?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews&rpc=22&sp=true

"They found that individuals treated for post-pot smoking psychotic episodes had the same likelihood of having a mother, sister or other "first-degree" relative with schizophrenia as did the individuals who had actually been treated for schizophrenia themselves. This suggests that cannabis-induced psychosis and schizophrenia are one and the same, the researchers note. "These people would have developed schizophrenia whether or not they used cannabis," Arendt explained in comments to Reuters Health."

do you enjoy the raping I am giving? can I fuck your mouth too?

Abstract

Background

Cannabis is one of the most highly abused illicit drugs in the world. Several studies suggest a link between adolescent cannabis use and schizophrenia. An understanding of this link would have significant implications for legalization of cannabis and its medicinal value. The present study aims to determine whether familial morbid risk for schizophrenia is the crucial factor that underlies the association of adolescent cannabis use with the development of schizophrenia.

Methods

Consecutively obtained probands were recruited into four samples: sample 1: 87 non-psychotic controls with no drug use; sample 2: 84 non-psychotic controls with cannabis use; sample 3: 32 patients with a schizophrenia spectrum psychosis with no drug use; sample 4: 76 patients with schizophrenia spectrum psychosis with cannabis use. All cannabis using subjects used this drug during adolescence, and no other substance, with the exception of alcohol. Structured interviews of probands and family informants were used to obtain diagnostic information about probands and all their known relatives.

Results

There was an increased morbid risk for schizophrenia in relatives of the cannabis using and non-using patient samples compared with their respective non-psychotic control samples (p=.002, p<.001 respectively). There was no significant difference in morbid risk for schizophrenia between relatives of the patients who use or do not use cannabis (p=.43).

Conclusions

The results of the current study suggest that having an increased familial morbid risk for schizophrenia may be the underlying basis for schizophrenia in cannabis users and not cannabis use by itself.


The abstract, I know you like to thoroughly review the literature before coming to a conclusion.

http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/2/316.short

This association between better cognitive performance and cannabis use in schizophrenia may be driven by a subgroup of “neurocognitively less impaired” patients, who only developed psychosis after a relatively early initiation into cannabis use.

Wait, those who use and have schizo are better off? I wonder why, could it be the anti-psychotic effect of some cannabinoids. If only there was research.

Again brand new

Recent Pat CNS Drug Discov. 2014 Mar 6. [Epub ahead of print]

Therapeutic Potential of Cannabinoids in Schizophrenia.

Kucerova J, Tabiova K, Drago F, Micale V1.


Author information




Abstract


Increasing evidence suggests a close relationship between the endocannabinoid system and schizophrenia. The endocannabinoid system comprises of two G protein-coupled receptors (the cannabinoid receptors 1 and 2 [CB1 and CB2] for marijuana's psychoactive principle Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol), their endogenous small lipid ligands (namely anandamide [AEA] and 2-arachidonoylglycerol [2-AG], also known as endocannabinoids), and proteins for endocannabinoid biosynthesis and degradation. It has been suggested to be a pro-homeostatic and pleiotropic signalling system activated in a time- and tissue-specific manner during pathophysiological conditions. In the brain, activation of this system impacts the release of numerous neurotransmitters in various systems and cytokines from glial cells. Hence, the endocannabinoid system is strongly involved in neuropsychiatric disorders, such as schizophrenia. Therefore, adolescence use of Cannabis may alter the endocannabinoid signalling and pose a potential environmental risk to develop psychosis. Consistently, preclinical and clinical studies have found dysregulations in the endocannabinoid system to alter blood and/or cerebrospinal fluid biochemistry. It has been proved that changed expressions of CB1 and CB2 receptors were linked to altered levels of AEA and 2-AG in the cerebrospinal fluid and/or blood. Thus, partial efficacy of antipsychotic compounds which manipulate this system may provide a novel therapeutic target for the treatment of schizophrenia. The present article reviews current available knowledge on herbal, synthetic and endogenous cannabinoids with respect to the modulation of schizophrenic symptomatology. Furthermore, this review will be highlighting the therapeutic potential of cannabinoid-related compounds and presenting some promising patents targeting potential treatment options for schizophrenia.

So as you can see your question is retarded, it's a complex topic. It induces schizo in some, treats it in others and for the vast majority without any history of schizo in the family will suffer nothing.

So now that every single thing you have stated has been rebutted with actual research and not opinion what are your thoughts on the drug? I mean you were trying to understand my position, could you paraphrase my position?


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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #323 on: April 19, 2014, 05:51:23 AM »
Hey Beach Bum whats his opinion on this? I am bored so I figured I would pick on the whipping boi a bit more.
Background

Cannabis is one of the most highly abused illicit drugs in the world. Several studies suggest a link between adolescent cannabis use and schizophrenia. An understanding of this link would have significant implications for legalization of cannabis and its medicinal value. The present study aims to determine whether familial morbid risk for schizophrenia is the crucial factor that underlies the association of adolescent cannabis use with the development of schizophrenia.

Methods

Consecutively obtained probands were recruited into four samples: sample 1: 87 non-psychotic controls with no drug use; sample 2: 84 non-psychotic controls with cannabis use; sample 3: 32 patients with a schizophrenia spectrum psychosis with no drug use; sample 4: 76 patients with schizophrenia spectrum psychosis with cannabis use. All cannabis using subjects used this drug during adolescence, and no other substance, with the exception of alcohol. Structured interviews of probands and family informants were used to obtain diagnostic information about probands and all their known relatives.

Results

There was an increased morbid risk for schizophrenia in relatives of the cannabis using and non-using patient samples compared with their respective non-psychotic control samples (p=.002, p<.001 respectively). There was no significant difference in morbid risk for schizophrenia between relatives of the patients who use or do not use cannabis (p=.43).

Conclusions

The results of the current study suggest that having an increased familial morbid risk for schizophrenia may be the underlying basis for schizophrenia in cannabis users and not cannabis use by itself.

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Re: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
« Reply #324 on: April 19, 2014, 07:58:43 AM »
waaaaaaa a thread I need read, thank you so much


I live in London England and it's impossible, it's a little island.  



I have a friend in Canada who has a 'medical' license to grow.  
I have smoked dope all my life (well since I was 25....


The 'mental illness' thing is something you saw in a right-wing stupid newspaper, or something to do with the fact that you can't get it or grow it so they sell you this disgusting skunk shit which will in fact make you mentally illl, if you have already got that tendancy it'll take you over the edge.     Last week it was all woody and this week it smells of mud. (That was my Jam mersh?  The other crap we get here is Jamaican merce (Commercial) and that is mostly rubbish too.


Do not smoke that genetically modified GM nasty skunk


Where you live in America it's practically legal nowadays, so I'm living in the wrong country all of a sudden.   It'd be cheaper to travel to Amsterdam and smuggle

xL