University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs

[Fury]

Haha coming from the guy who lives on opinion when it comes to all Muslims.  Classic post right there.  

There you go lying again like the little far-left rat that you are. I do little more than post news stories of atrocities carried out by Muslims. I know this bothers you as your pro-Muslim ideologies warrants playing deaf, blind and dumb to what they do while bashing Christians and Jews.

You're really embarrassing yourself now. I'm lost as to why you even bother to post here? You clearly don't read anything and every point you argue is heavy on opinions and low on facts.

[Soul Crusher]

Haha i know 333 BF is just too easy to mess with.  His posts are always so retarded i can't help but insult him.  You have to admit though the fem has been nut hugging you a lot recently.  Maybe you should start your own political team, he'd join in a heartbeat!

No, its issue related.  Name an issue and maybe agree, maybe disagree. 

BF is more liberal than I am.  But when it comes to this admn, even people who are otherwise liberal, and even voted for Obama, are appaulled at a lot of decisions that have been made the direction we are going. 

[Fury]

No, its issue related.  Name an issue and maybe agree, maybe disagree. 

BF is more liberal than I am.  But when it comes to this admn, even people who are otherwise liberal, and even voted for Obama, are appaulled at a lot of decisions that have been made the direction we are going. 

He doesn't seem to comprehend that. People like him who blindly shill for Obama and applaud everything the guy does disgust me. They're no better than the people on the right that did the same thing with Bush.

[kcballer]

There you go lying again like the little far-left rat that you are. I do little more than post news stories of atrocities carried out by Muslims. I know this bothers you as your pro-Muslim ideologies warrants playing deaf, blind and dumb to what they do while bashing Christians and Jews.

You're really embarrassing yourself now. I'm lost as to why you even bother to post here? You clearly don't read anything and every point you argue is heavy on opinions and low on facts.

   yeah okay little miss 'all muslims are evil' keep posting the atrocities which i always comment are bad and evil however, i don't then jump to the false conclusion that all followers are implicit in it and/or evil as well.  

Keep trolling  

[Dos Equis]

Your entire argument revolves around the notion that public and private institutions are subject to the same rules regarding contracts and the like. They're not so your entire argument is pointless.

Correct.  One has zero to do with the other. 

The issues here are whether the professor's comments amounted to "hate speech" and whether he lost his job due to censorship. 

[Fury]

 yeah okay little miss 'all muslims are evil' keep posting the atrocities which i always comment are bad and evil however, i don't then jump to the false conclusion that all followers are implicit in it and/or evil as well.  

Keep trolling  

Nice meltdown. I like that you keep putting words in my mouth yet when asked to provide hard evidence of your claim that I said, "all Muslims are evil" you scurry like the lying rat that you are.

Keep embarrassing yourself. 

[Straw Man]

Most are too myopic to see all of our rights are tied together. Maybe PC speech can be added to the Patriot Act.

this guy has no "right" to a job

he's a part timer and when the semester is over he's unemployed

if the school chooses not to renew his contract, for whatever reason, that is perfectly within their rights and has nothing to do with me or my right to free speech outside of the work place.

this whole thread it lame

[Straw Man]

There is also no proof of why this guy was not rehired other than his own claim that it was becasue of HIS Catholic beliefs.     Seems kind of hard to believe this given the fact that he was teaching a class about Catholicism. 

There must be some other reason why he was not re-hired.   Maybe the head of the department doesn't agree with how or what he was teaching and, if so, I can't see how anyone would think that the head of the department doesn't have the right to make that choice

[Skip8282]

There is also no proof of why this guy was not rehired other than his own claim that it was becasue of HIS Catholic beliefs.     Seems kind of hard to believe this given the fact that he was teaching a class about Catholicism. 

There must be some other reason why he was not re-hired.   Maybe the head of the department doesn't agree with how or what he was teaching and, if so, I can't see how anyone would think that the head of the department doesn't have the right to make that choice

The associate dean of his college put out an email stating that the college was justified in firing him for his words.  There's no question they can fire him for anything, but if the reason is for what he wrote, which has been put out, then it seems pretty sad that a college would fire him over it.

[Straw Man]

The associate dean of his college put out an email stating that the college was justified in firing him for his words.  There's no question they can fire him for anything, but if the reason is for what he wrote, which has been put out, then it seems pretty sad that a college would fire him over it.

do  you have a copy of the email saying he was "fired"

and what were the "words" that the associate Dean was referring to?

[Skip8282]

do  you have a copy of the email saying he was "fired"

No, it's up to you as to whether or not you believe the news reports.  It's an AP story so be your own judge.

and what were the "words" that the associate Dean was referring to?

I think this is why BeachBum refers to you as one of the dumbest posters around.  It's in the article, and if you missed it in the article, I posted them in this thread.

[Straw Man]

No, it's up to you as to whether or not you believe the news reports.  It's an AP story so be your own judge.

I've read all the news stories that I could locate on the subject and I never saw the word "fired"
Not renewing the guys contract is not the same as being fired

I think this is why BeachBum refers to you as one of the dumbest posters around.  It's in the article, and if you missed it in the article, I posted them in this thread.

It always cracks me up when people are too lazy answer a question or simply copy/link their own post

Here is the only response I can find from the associate dean and it wasn't from the Fox News article linked in this thread and she didn't detail exactly which of his "words" were the actual problem

In another e-mail, Ann Mester, associate dean for the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, wrote that she believes "the e-mails sent by Dr. Howell violate university standards of inclusivity, which would then entitle us to have him discontinue his teaching arrangement with us."

[Skip8282]

I've read all the news stories that I could locate on the subject and I never saw the word "fired"
Not renewing the guys contract is not the same as being fired

Yes, the terms are used interchangeably and the fact that you're attempting to pretend they are not speaks mounds.  Just as General McChrystal was fired even though he "technically" resigned.

It always cracks me up when people are too lazy answer a question or simply copy/link their own post

Here is the only response I can find from the associate dean and it wasn't from the Fox News article linked in this thread and she didn't detail exactly which of his "words" were the actual problem

I'll stand by my earlier comment.

[Straw Man]

Yes, the terms are used interchangeably and the fact that you're attempting to pretend they are not speaks mounds.  Just as General McChrystal was fired even though he "technically" resigned.

hardly the same

the man was a contractor and when the term ended his employment ended.

the university chose not to renew his contract

that is distinctly different from being fired or terminated

I'll stand by my earlier comment.

makes no difference to me

the bottom line is that the university was completely within their right to choose to no longer offer this guy a teaching job in the next term

end of story

[Skip8282]

the bottom line is that the university was completely within their right to choose to no longer offer this guy a teaching job in the next term

end of story

No, the bottom line is that nobody is saying the university is not within their rights, you're just not bright enough to figure that out.  The discussion has focused on whether or not it was a right or wrong decision to fire him or, if you prefer, not renew his contract.

[Straw Man]

No, the bottom line is that nobody is saying the university is not within their rights, you're just not bright enough to figure that out.  The discussion has focused on whether or not it was a right or wrong decision to fire him or, if you prefer, not renew his contract.

when the term ended his employment officially ended

if the university was within their legal right not to offer this guy a job again next year then the question right or wrong decision is a moot point.  The university thought it was right and that's all that matters

[Skip8282]

when the term ended his employment officially ended

if the university was within their legal right not to offer this guy a job again next year then the question right or wrong decision is a moot point.  The university thought it was right and that's all that matters

I see.  So you must be a big fan of corporations and their free speech rights?  Oh no, that's right, you're not.

Wait, corporations are well within their rights to influence elections, but that's wrong.  But a college is well within its rights and that makes it right.

Gotta love the liberal double standard.

Just because they are legally within their rights, doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision. 

I guess since the Patriot Act passed you're a big supporter right?  Oh, no that's right... 

[Straw Man]

I see.  So you must be a big fan of corporations and their free speech rights?  Oh no, that's right, you're not.

Wait, corporations are well within their rights to influence elections, but that's wrong.  But a college is well within its rights and that makes it right.

Gotta love the liberal double standard.

Just because they are legally within their rights, doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision. 

I guess since the Patriot Act passed you're a big supporter right?  Oh, no that's right... 

man you're all over the place

what does this have to do wtih corporate personhood or teh Patriot Act.

the school employed this guy on a temporary basis and decided that they'd prefer not to have him teach there next year.   They decided it was the right thing to do.

I won't be losing any sleep over it

[Skip8282]

man you're all over the place

what does this have to do wtih corporate personhood or teh Patriot Act.

the school employed this guy on a temporary basis and decided that they'd prefer not to have him teach there next year.   They decided it was the right thing to do.

I won't be losing any sleep over it

Sorry, did that go over your head?  The point is in this sentence right here:

"Just because they are legally within their rights, doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision. "

[Straw Man]

Sorry, did that go over your head?  The point is in this sentence right here:

"Just because they are legally within their rights, doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision. "

yep I saw that

the only perspective on right or wrong that is relevent is the school's

they are the one paying the guys salary and they are the one that has to deal with the fallout of his actions

I can't believe you've spent 4 pages whining about this

can't you find something serious to be upset about?

[Skip8282]

yep I saw that

the only perspective on right or wrong that is relevent is the school's

they are the one paying the guys salary and they are the one that has to deal with the fallout of his actions

No, as far as his employment goes, that's the only opinion that matters.  As far as a discussion board goes, we can freely discuss it at will.  I know you're slow, but don't worry, I'm carefully bringing you up to the level of logical thought.

I can't believe you've spent 4 pages whining about this

can't you find something serious to be upset about?

I haven't spent four pages on here, nor am I upset.  Like I said, it's a discussion board and we're just...discussing.  You're not bright enough to understand that yet, but I'm getting you there.

[Straw Man]

No, as far as his employment goes, that's the only opinion that matters.

finally we agree on something

I'm sure the school has another 50 people who can teach this lame class without dragging the school through the news.

I'm sure another school can't wait to hire this douche so that that the next time he fails to get a renewal of his contract he can drag them through the news media too

[Dos Equis]

Here is the professor's comment:

"Natural Moral Law says that morality must be a response to REALITY. In other words, sexual acts are only appropriate for people who are complementary, not the same."

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000013018.cfm

And this is "hate speech"??  In the context of a religion course no less?  This is an example of liberal censorship at its worst.  

[Straw Man]

Here is the professor's comment:

"Natural Moral Law says that morality must be a response to REALITY. In other words, sexual acts are only appropriate for people who are complementary, not the same."

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000013018.cfm

And this is "hate speech"??  In the context of a religion course no less?  This is an example of liberal censorship at its worst.  

LoL

this is the "worst"?

how was he censored?

[drkaje]

Here is the professor's comment:

"Natural Moral Law says that morality must be a response to REALITY. In other words, sexual acts are only appropriate for people who are complementary, not the same."

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000013018.cfm

And this is "hate speech"??  In the context of a religion course no less?  This is an example of liberal censorship at its worst.  

I would love to ask him for a clarification; since reality always changes, does true morality even exist?