Who here believes that a clean diet gets an outstanding physique?

[dj181]

But when I say outstandingly fit, I'm not just talking about looking the part (which is important for vain people like moi) I'm talking about being able to go out and run a mile in under 6 min and/or passing a cardio-vascular fitness test with flying colors. So then if this is possible through only weight training 2 or 3 times a week, then how is it so? Performing circuit or PHA-style training, with very short rest btw work sets?

[The Showstoppa]

What are you people running from?  Vampires? Gay bashers? What?

[JP_RC]

Allright, I've got a question for all here, and this question is irregardless of "diet" and this question is: Is it possible to achieve an outstanding level of fitness without performing "cardio"? Basically, can one train with weights, and only with weights, 2 or 3 times a week and be outstandingly fit, just like Arthur Jones claimed was possible? Via his "West Point Study"

Yes I agree its possible, depending obviously on how you train.

[dj181]

Well man, I gots to run from every possible physical threat dat comes ma way, coz I gots no power to ma punches and top it off wit a glass jaw, so running is ma only option P.S. I got really fast hands but it don't mean sh!t if there's no power to ma punch

[Mr Nobody]

But when I say outstandingly fit, I'm not just talking about looking the part (which is important for vain people like moi) I'm talking about being able to go out and run a mile in under 6 min and/or passing a cardio-vascular fitness test with flying colors. So then if this is possible through only weight training 2 or 3 times a week, then how is it so? Performing circuit or PHA-style training, with very short rest btw work sets?

Depends I think you are a Arthur Jones fan, some of his stuff is related to this specific events like say a javelin throw or like running a sub 4 minute mile you have to to practice those specific events but just overall health and such weight training can take care of if it done in a matter that constitutes some cardovascular stimulation.

[The Showstoppa]

Well man, I gots to run from every possible physical threat dat comes ma way, coz I gots no power to ma punches and top it off wit a glass jaw, so running is ma only option P.S. I got really fast hands but it don't mean sh!t if there's no power to ma punch

haha, my theory is that I can't outrun anybody anymore so if I do, I would just be easier to beat up when they catch me....since I would be exhausted.  Best to stay and throw hands quickly. 

[dj181]

Ok JP, so how can one train to achieve it? Is it through circuit PHA training?

[Mr Nobody]

haha, my theory is that I can't outrun anybody anymore so if I do, I would just be easier to beat up when they catch me....since I would be exhausted.  Best to stay and throw hands quickly. 

Best just to pack a .357 magnum then no running  or throwing hands is required.

[JP_RC]

Keeping your heart rate elevated during the whole training session, which can be done by proper high intensity sets and short rest periods. Circuit PHA training will definitively work too.

I don't understood why people say we 'need' steady state cardio for heart health, the heart doesn't know what you're doing when it comes to exercise, all it knows is it musst work harder: pump more blood when muscles are working hard.

Most people that say that weight training does nothing for the heart are people that: 1. train with shit-low intensity 2. rest too long between sets/exercises, thus any heart rate elevation subsides.

[JP_RC]

And short high intensity type of cardio like sprints, prowler, hiit, etc. is much better than any steady state cardio for cardiovascular conditioning as well.

[slaver]

just had 20 piecve nugs
file o fish meal w diet
and eaitng my reece mcflury

I am follower fo non clean abs route

[dj181]

I hear ya JP, but I'm trying to figure out a way to incorporate both heart training and muscle training within the same program. The problem with circut PHA training, or even the type of weight training that you described, is what about warm-ups? If you don't warm-up before each different exercise, then your performance will be sub par, if you really want to train with heavy loads. And if you do warm-up properly for each exercise, then it's impossible to keep up an elevated pulse rate.

[JP_RC]

I would say only warm up for the first exercise or the major bodyparts depending on how many bp you're training on a given session.
Or just don't take too long to warmup and try to keep your heart rate elevated as much as possible.

One thing is for sure, if someone is not used to training with shortened rest periods, weights will come down.

[dj181]

I suppose that I can give it a go, as I am experimenting with slo-mo reps now, which makes it necessary not to use such heavy training loads, and requires a less through warm-up. Although, I'm still kinda scared about the fact that at least 3 min btw work sets are required in order to fully replenish ATP-PC stores for maximum power output btw sets. But, fuck it! I'll just try and deal with it.

[JP_RC]

Try it and see if it works for you.

I thought you already trained like this though, since you like Arthur Jones stuff so much, he recommended training like this in some way.

[dj181]

Not exactly man, I like AJ's stuff, particullary about intensity and progressive overload, but it's just not possible to use really heavy training loads if you race from one set to the next, because it takes 3 or 4 min to fully replenish ATP-PC stores. And yeah, I'll try and give it a run. By the way, I have one last question for ya. What do you think of Tim Ferris gaining 34 pounds of lean muscle tissue in 4 weeks time only training twice a week? Type in "from geek to freak" into google, if you don't know who I'm talking about.

[bodyofsteel]

it's like, and with all due respect to the threadstarter, how can you hang on the "every word" of a obese, virgin who has never played a competitive sport in his life?

I mean, that weighs (no pun intended) a lot on the intelligence of a person

Shut up you ball gravy lusting twink. You're just jealous that all the attention isn't on your emaciated 6 pack.

[JP_RC]

Well, I think part of it was muscle memory too since he said he had lost muscle before starting his experiment.

His before and after pics aren't that impressive anyway, I really doubt that is 34 lbs of muscle gain. You can never know, maybe he is lying or maybe he is not.

His diet was stupid in my opinion though.

[tbombz]

Keeping your heart rate elevated during the whole training session, which can be done by proper high intensity sets and short rest periods. Circuit PHA training will definitively work too.

I don't understood why people say we 'need' steady state cardio for heart health, the heart doesn't know what you're doing when it comes to exercise, all it knows is it musst work harder: pump more blood when muscles are working hard.

Most people that say that weight training does nothing for the heart are people that: 1. train with shit-low intensity 2. rest too long between sets/exercises, thus any heart rate elevation subsides.

if you want to build muscle you need to rest between sets.  Workouts are for growing muscle. Let diet control fat loss.

[dj181]

That's exactly where my fear comes from tbombz, one can't keep the work loads high if they rush btw work sets, it just isn't possible.

[Mr Nobody]

That's exactly where my fear comes from tbombz, one can't keep the work loads high if they rush btw work sets, it just isn't possible.

X2 they need to be separated.

[cephissus]

So you guys really don't change how you lift at all when dieting down?  I ask because almost as soon as I cut my calories I started feeling even more run down than usual.  I'm about to start hitting every body part once a week instead of twice a week, to see if that helps.

[Firemuscle]

 A clean diet does not build a better physique.

 It makes you more healthy, less toxins in your body, but doesn't really do much for the aesthetic appearance of your body.

[dj181]

Well c, if you can hold on to your strength as you cut the cals then you will keep and hold on to the muscle that you do have. It's quite simple really, if strength goes down then size will go down. Remember, a weaker muscle is a smaller muscle.

[newmom]

A clean diet does not build a better physique.

 It makes you more healthy, less toxins in your body, but doesn't really do much for the aesthetic appearance of your body.

BULLSHIT