Author Topic: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies  (Read 37122 times)

apply85

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2011, 05:39:23 PM »
OK here's the thing. There are tons of guys from years ago walking around huge with out GH. Most guys on this board complain about how shitty the guys of today look, but they all want to take the drugs like they do? You can't have both. You got guys who weigh 190 and think they need to get on 6 iu's of GH 1000 mgs of test and insulin to get big. Go ahead and see how you look at 6 months. Pellius is right as I don't like test. If you want to use it go ahead, but I laugh when I hear about people using 2 to 3 grams a week. I feel sorry for some of these guys who are spending their last dime on all this GH. Look at the pic of Robby I posted. Do you think he was taking Gh, tons of test and slin? Hell no, there was lots of Deca and Dbol back then with some winny and primo. Yeah there were some other things, but deca and dbol built most of what you see in the 70's and early 80's.

Can you go into specific on why don;t like test? I am planning my first cycle and your advice is appreciated. Also, if deca and dbol built guys back then, why were they always so dry, why don't they look like the marshmallow men of todayin the off season. Primo? thx

First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2011, 05:39:47 PM »
Disgusted: what are some of your favourite back exercises? How would you rate deadlifts from the floor?

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2011, 05:40:31 PM »
OK here's the thing. There are tons of guys from years ago walking around huge with out GH. Most guys on this board complain about how shitty the guys of today look, but they all want to take the drugs like they do? You can't have both. You got guys who weigh 190 and think they need to get on 6 iu's of GH 1000 mgs of test and insulin to get big. Go ahead and see how you look at 6 months. Pellius is right as I don't like test. If you want to use it go ahead, but I laugh when I hear about people using 2 to 3 grams a week. I feel sorry for some of these guys who are spending their last dime on all this GH. Look at the pic of Robby I posted. Do you think he was taking Gh, tons of test and slin? Hell no, there was lots of Deca and Dbol back then with some winny and primo. Yeah there were some other things, but deca and dbol built most of what you see in the 70's and early 80's.

so most of what gh15 has been posting is bullshit?

 :D

goomba420

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2011, 05:41:46 PM »
so like gh15 said, lift to stimulate not annihilate? my cousin's routine used to be:  3 sets flat bench, 3 sets flat dumbbell bench, 3 sets incline, 3 sets incline db, 3 sets incline flies, 3 sets cable flies and every now and then some decline  ;D ;D

First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2011, 05:43:37 PM »
so like gh15 said, lift to stimulate not annihilate? my cousin's routine used to be:  3 sets flat bench, 3 sets flat dumbbell bench, 3 sets incline, 3 sets incline db, 3 sets incline flies, 3 sets cable flies and every now and then some decline  ;D ;D

lots of redundancy in that routine  ;D

Disgusted

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2011, 05:47:12 PM »
Can you go into specific on why don;t like test? I am planning my first cycle and your advice is appreciated. Also, if deca and dbol built guys back then, why were they always so dry, why don't they look like the marshmallow men of todayin the off season. Primo? thx

Another huge misconception. Most guys swell up with some water in the beginning on Dbol, but that goes away after some time.

Test has lots of sides. I am going to quote Pellius who quoted Dr Walczak, " To minimize the androgenic properties (defined then as the primary and secondary sexual characteristics) while maintaining or enhancing the anabolic (muscle building) properties. He considered steroids to be much safer with less sides than testosterone."
 

cephissus

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2011, 05:47:28 PM »
first blood where have you been?

what happened to "i wanna mutate!"??

Disgusted

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #107 on: September 14, 2011, 05:48:39 PM »
Disgusted: what are some of your favourite back exercises? How would you rate deadlifts from the floor?

Used to do deads years ago, but most people like width cause that's impressive right? Work the outer lats with stiff arm pulldowns, seated pulldowns to rear and front. DB pullovers too.

Disgusted

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #108 on: September 14, 2011, 05:49:17 PM »
so most of what gh15 has been posting is bullshit?

 :D

Actually no, GH15 is telling you how to look like the guys on stage today.

tbombz

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2011, 05:49:31 PM »
To each his own bro. I'm not a small guy and I've been training a body part once per week for over 20 years. As far as legs go, again they are not small and I rarley go below 15 reps on anything. Now, the two quotes by you below are just dead wrong.

"once per week isnt often enough"     "if you never do low reps you wont gain strength optimally and thus wont grow optimally"  (pure balogna)

once per week just isnt optimal, thats all.  your muscle only grows for 2-3 days after you train it.  

and not doing low reps isnt optimal either.  you will get bigger faster by incorporating low reps.  now, drug intake and genetics determine your maximum muscular potential..   and one could reach their full potential by only dong high reps and only training once a week. but it will take longer than if they were to train more optimally. same end result just get there quicker by doing things better.



It is my belief, and I got this from A. Jones, that as long as you are doing something that is already easy it will do very little or nothing to stimulate and adaptive response. To me that makes intuitive sense. As long as you do 8 reps at 205lbs never trying for the 9th rep what reason does your body have to adapt and get stronger and therefore bigger.

Tbombz doesn't even believes this as he believes in progressive over load. It doesn't matter if that over load is an additional rep at the same weight or the same reps at a heavier weight.  

there is nothing special about reaching failure. what makes a muscle grow is time under tension and progressive overload.  over working a muscle by pushing it to failue repeatedly only inhibits your bodies ability to grow as it has to deal with the damage caused by those sets. one set to failure is ok and can work but the idea is to get your muscle able to lift heavy weight for a bunch of sets in multiple rep ranges. whats going to be bigger, a muscle that can do one set to failure at 10 reps with 300lbs or a muscle that can do 10 easy sets of 6 with 300lbs.  the muscle capable of doing multiple sets will be bigger than the one which can only do one set.

also, and this is a key point, just because your not pushing your muscle to the point of failure, does not mean the weight was easy to lift or that your muscle hasnt been taxed/stimulated.  every single time you rep a weight you are stimulating growth. more reps without over training= more growth.  the idea is to push yourself, lift heavy, do a mixture of rep ranges, keep good form, but not to tax your cns and muscle fibers to the point where they have to focus on repairing damage instead of growing.

First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2011, 05:49:39 PM »
first blood where have you been?

Very busy, I'm afraid. So no bible studies lately  ;). I was gonna do a gh15 nutrition bible but simply haven't had the time...

First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #111 on: September 14, 2011, 05:51:28 PM »
Used to do deads years ago, but most people like width cause that's impressive right? Work the outer lats with stiff arm pulldowns, seated pulldowns to rear and front. DB pullovers too.

Thanks. I feel that deadlifts steal alot of energy from your overall recovery pool and don't necessarily give the growth that you could believe just from looking at poundages.

First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #112 on: September 14, 2011, 05:54:15 PM »
once per week just isnt optimal, thats all.  your muscle only grows for 2-3 days after you train it.  

and not doing low reps isnt optimal either.  you will get bigger faster by incorporating low reps.  now, drug intake and genetics determine your maximum muscular potential..   and one could reach their full potential by only dong high reps and only training once a week. but it will take longer than if they were to train more optimally. same end result just get there quicker by doing things better.



there is nothing special about reaching failure. what makes a muscle grow is time under tension and progressive overload.  over working a muscle by pushing it to failue repeatedly only inhibits your bodies ability to grow as it has to deal with the damage caused by those sets. one set to failure is ok and can work but the idea is to get your muscle able to lift heavy weight for a bunch of sets in multiple rep ranges. whats going to be bigger, a muscle that can do one set to failure at 10 reps with 300lbs or a muscle that can do 10 easy sets of 6 with 300lbs.  the muscle capable of doing multiple sets will be bigger than the one which can only do one set.

also, and this is a key point, just because your not pushing your muscle to the point of failure, does not mean the weight was easy to lift or that your muscle hasnt been taxed/stimulated.  every single time you rep a weight you are stimulating growth. more reps without over training= more growth.  the idea is to push yourself, lift heavy, do a mixture of rep ranges, keep good form, but not to tax your cns and muscle fibers to the point where they have to focus on repairing damage instead of growing.

I see that you spend time reading lyle mcdonalds material. Very good stuff for a natural (his site).

tbombz

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2011, 05:55:17 PM »
I see that you spend time reading lyle mcdonalds material. Very good stuff for a natural (his site).
nope dont read his site im speaking from personal experience and what i see in the gym.  i actually think naturals are probably better off training to failure repeatedly.

Disgusted

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2011, 05:55:38 PM »
once per week just isnt optimal, thats all.  your muscle only grows for 2-3 days after you train it.  

and not doing low reps isnt optimal either.  

Yeah I guess I'd be a lot bigger if I trained a body part twice a week and lowered my reps to under 12.

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2011, 05:56:11 PM »
Yeah I guess I'd be a lot bigger if I trained a body part twice a week and lowered my reps to under 12.

huge as fuck  8)

cephissus

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #116 on: September 14, 2011, 05:57:04 PM »
also, and this is a key point, just because your not pushing your muscle to the point of failure, does not mean the weight was easy to lift or that your muscle hasnt been taxed/stimulated.  every single time you rep a weight you are stimulating growth. more reps without over training= more growth.  the idea is to push yourself, lift heavy, do a mixture of rep ranges, keep good form, but not to tax your cns and muscle fibers to the point where they have to focus on repairing damage instead of growing.

Interesting post.  Many believe you MUST damage the muscle so that it "rebuilds bigger than ever."  This is repeated everywhere, but I think is just another unfounded prejudice.

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #117 on: September 14, 2011, 05:57:31 PM »
Very busy, I'm afraid. So no bible studies lately  ;). I was gonna do a gh15 nutrition bible but simply haven't had the time...

We miss you, FB!!

cephissus

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2011, 05:58:04 PM »
Yeah I guess I'd be a lot bigger if I trained a body part twice a week and lowered my reps to under 12.

dude where are you from?  you look familiar...

First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2011, 05:58:22 PM »
nope dont read his site im speaking from personal experience and what i see in the gym.  i actually think naturals are probably better off training to failure repeatedly.

Ok, I'm not looking to argue but it's pretty obvious from several of your posts. He is very knowledgeable, certainly a great resource for natural lifters. Progressive tension overload  + a certain amount of fatigue stimulus.


First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #120 on: September 14, 2011, 05:59:40 PM »
Yeah I guess I'd be a lot bigger if I trained a body part twice a week and lowered my reps to under 12.

 :o  You look like a tank Mr Magnone! Wiiiiide.

First Blood

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #121 on: September 14, 2011, 06:02:23 PM »
Interesting post.  Many believe you MUST damage the muscle so that it "rebuilds bigger than ever."  This is repeated everywhere, but I think is just another unfounded prejudice.

Failure is not a must for growth. Progressive tension overload is the main thing. In many cases failure training can be detrimental. But there is a lot of individual variation as to how much failure training you can handle. The break down and rebuild concept is flawed.

tbombz

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #122 on: September 14, 2011, 06:02:42 PM »
Yeah I guess I'd be a lot bigger if I trained a body part twice a week and lowered my reps to under 12.
what did i say ? i said you could get there faster, but it would be the same end result, and that genetics and drug intake determine your maximum.. you could post a picture of ronnie coleman in 2003 and make the same argument.. but im not saying ronnie  could have gotten any bigger had he trained more often.. what im saying is he probably could have gotten to that point in less time

Interesting post.  Many believe you MUST damage the muscle so that it "rebuilds bigger than ever."  This is repeated everywhere, but I think is just another unfounded prejudice.
bro science. damaging the muscle is a bad thing. stimulating is good.


Ok, I'm not looking to argue but it's pretty obvious from several of your posts. He is very knowledgeable, certainly a great resource for natural lifters. Progressive tension overload  + a certain amount of fatigue stimulus.


maybe we just think alike cuz i really dont ever go to his site, the last time i read anything from his was four years ago about keto dieting.  

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #123 on: September 14, 2011, 06:02:50 PM »
Tbombz Even if this is true "your muscle only grows for 2-3 days after you train it." It doesn't mean that your muscle immediately start to shrink after 3 days. Also you need to take into account that you are getting secondary stimulus from doing other exercises.  


tbombz

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Re: Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies
« Reply #124 on: September 14, 2011, 06:05:20 PM »
Tbombz Even if this is true "your muscle only grows for 2-3 days after you train it." It doesn't mean that your muscle immediately start to shrink after 3 days. Also you need to take into account that you are getting secondary stimulus from doing other exercises.  


agreed.

maybe its beneficial to cycle between twice a week and once a week training. i know that with twice per week training my volume is very limited even though i dont go to failure (4-6 sets per body part). i could see doubling or tripling volume while decreasing frequency to once per week working good.