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Author Topic: Push press vs military press / dumbell press  (Read 4075 times)
chaos
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2012, 12:52:36 PM »

Metabolic since you're new in our little section here would you like to introduce yourself? Maybe a little of your past training experience/styles/types of lifting/etc?
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2012, 01:04:51 PM »

Allow for being slightly off topic, but probably the main cause of back pain in a general population (rather than a weighlifting population) is prolonged over loading of the lower back muscles compensating from ineffective abdominal use eg caving in like the side of an empty drinks can. The six pack is a function of visual rather than strength. Its always there but not always on show
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2012, 01:06:33 PM »

Yeah my six pack is more like a keg. Cool
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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2012, 01:10:45 PM »

Metabolic since you're new in our little section here would you like to introduce yourself? Maybe a little of your past training experience/styles/types of lifting/etc?

The only thing that might be relevant to be said is that I am completely natural, hence by all internet standards Im a pussy weak homo twink that Squats 235 for several reps and have done 260 for doubles at about 80 kilos (I dont DL, too taxating, and I have done Oly lifting succesfully).  Considering I am natural, I really do need to pay attention to everything I do, diet, training, rest, etc, hence I have done much research and participate in varios communities related to fitness.  I have absolutely no official qualification of anything related to biology and you should research everything you read on the internets.  And I have been training for several years, though I started as a total bro like most clueless teenagers.

Also I like men in thongs with big oiled muscles.
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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2012, 01:31:02 PM »

Hmm. Have you ever done any heavy push presses? Not jerks, but a push press? How about a strongman log? Ever lifted one?

Point being is the I believe you are underestimated the abdominal involvement in heavy lifting, whether its squat/dead/OH pressing/etc. If you are lifting heavy doubles/triples, your abs are extremely involved.

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« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2012, 01:44:11 PM »

Hmm. Have you ever done any heavy push presses? Not jerks, but a push press? How about a strongman log? Ever lifted one?

Point being is the I believe you are underestimated the abdominal involvement in heavy lifting, whether its squat/dead/OH pressing/etc. If you are lifting heavy doubles/triples, your abs are extremely involved.



I have done heavy pp, yes, strongman work I have never done.

A heavy double or triple will no doubtly engage all core, point is, isometrical training is not enough, plain and simple because it works at the angle of force and because of the dynamic stimulii to the other relevant muscles involved in the pressing will make them progress faster than your abs and they will lag behind creating imbalances and possible injuries, for example, Weak Abs vs Iliopsoas or Hip Flexors (guaranteed injury in heavy squatting, especially front squatting because of the depth).

Bottom line, isometric contraction doesnt really count when training, you NEED/MUST do dynamic contractions for the muscle in quesiton in other to progress accordingly.
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« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2012, 01:59:54 PM »

Ok....let's try a different route here. What do you consider "progression" and how can you say the abs aren't getting stronger if you are lifting heavier and the abs are involved in lifting?

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« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2012, 02:03:39 PM »

Ok....let's try a different route here. What do you consider "progression" and how can you say the abs aren't getting stronger if you are lifting heavier and the abs are involved in lifting?



Progression = progressive overloading of the muscle in any given protocol, whether Myoreps, typical 3x8, etc

They are, only at the angle of force in which they are isometrically trained, I have stated this three times already, so, when you need to perform any other movement involving abdominals, by thinking youre abs GET STRONGZZ through squats or ohp or whatever you are proning yourself to injury and not getting them bigger at all, which in any case is not that important.  Also, the adaptations of muscles used dynamically is much faster, hence abs lag behind,  because it takes much less stress to stabilize than dynamically contract.  

Different stimulii, dynamic vs isometric, your abs will not stay on par in strength with the dynamically trained muscles and will only be trained in the angle of force, that is all to isometric contractions.
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« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2012, 02:08:33 PM »

I understand what you think,because its what you read in the INTERNETZ, but reality is a little bit different. Like I said, you obviously have never done any heavy lifting and your "years" of experience aren't really showing right now. Sad
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« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2012, 02:10:30 PM »

I understand what you think,because its what you read in the INTERNETZ, but reality is a little bit different. Like I said, you obviously have never done any heavy lifting and your "years" of experience aren't really showing right now. Sad
You clearly dont know the difference between isometric and dynamic, but its ok, this board is not precisely training-smart.  Also, Oly lifters, all of them, do direct core work, there is a reason for that, so do strongmen.

Also, you probably, tho I cant be sure, are horminzed to the gills and have barely done any research whatsoever on training because well, thats the beauty of AAS, they do the training for you.

Also number 2, you still havent said anything worth of any value to support your view while I have been using real practical knowledge from sports science, go figure...

Also number 3, FEELING a muscle the day after, whatever the fuck that means has never been a measure of good training, stop with that FEEL THE PUMP-70's crap.
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« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2012, 02:18:25 PM »

A) heavy double or triple will no doubtly engage all core....
b) the angle of force.
Im sorry but can you explain better the above?

I dont think anybody here is advocating isometric exercise as a growth mechanism.
Dynamic movement is only one aspect of strength. Stability is a basic requirement of strength.
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« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2012, 02:19:24 PM »

Lmfao....never juiced in my life, 100% natural kid, and unlike you, I have real life experience.

Let me try another approach for the mentally challenged here....

Wait, you don't deadlift cause "its too taxing"....hahahahaaa!!!! But just humor me here...I NEVER do direct forearm work, yet I find that as my deadlift increases, so does my ability to hold onto the bar...strange....or how about this...let's say your squatting your massive 235lbs....do you honestly believe that you tighten your abs as much as if you were squatting 400lbs? Would be a safe assumption to say that the abs would be stronger to squat the 400 right?

 If you think the ab wall doesn't move when you squat/dead/ohp...then I can't help you and you should probably run back to BBing.com.
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« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2012, 02:20:59 PM »

Im sorry but can you explain better the above?

I dont think anybody here is advocating isometric exercise as a growth mechanism.
Dynamic movement is only one aspect of strength. Stability is a basic requirement of strength.

Core is engaged, yes, obviously.

Now, in isometric contractions strength is created only at the angle the muscle is isometrically contracted by the force applied.  For example, a 90 isometric hold for quads will improve exactly that, your quad strength at the 90 angle, this help people pull out of the hole when they have a weakness going up.
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« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2012, 02:22:50 PM »

Lmfao....never juiced in my life, 100% natural kid, and unlike you, I have real life experience.

Let me try another approach for the mentally challenged here....

Wait, you don't deadlift cause "its too taxing"....hahahahaaa!!!! But just humor me here...I NEVER do direct forearm work, yet I find that as my deadlift increases, so does my ability to hold onto the bar...strange....or how about this...let's say your squatting your massive 235lbs....do you honestly believe that you tighten your abs as much as if you were squatting 400lbs? Would be a safe assumption to say that the abs would be stronger to squat the 400 right?

 If you think the ab wall doesn't move when you squat/dead/ohp...then I can't help you and you should probably run back to BBing.com.

 "If you think the ab wall doesn't move when you squat/dead/ohp...then I can't help you and you should probably run back to BBing.com."

If you are doing lumbar flexion (not extension, you twat) in DL and OHPing I got band news for you kiddo.

You have 0 knowledge of basic anatomy and training, but I dont really care though, im here for the fun boards, this is just me killing time.  Feel free to keep answering with no content.

Hell, Im going to make it easier, name the functions of the abdominal wall, name the pattern movements involved in OHP and DLing (squatting is a little bit different, little bit), now anser your own dumb posts.  At the angle, yes, you are stronger, at anything else nothing has improved.
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« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2012, 02:28:43 PM »

Core is engaged, yes, obviously.

Now, in isometric contractions strength is created only at the angle the muscle is isometrically contracted by the force applied.  For example, a 90 isometric hold for quads will improve exactly that, your quad strength at the 90 angle, this help people pull out of the hole when they have a weakness going up.

The great thing about asking stupid questions is that some times i get intelligent answers
You have not explained what the angle of force is nor have you explained what you meant by "double or triple"
I can see by some of your replies here that you are impatient with being questioned but I also notice how quick you are to badmouth those who question you.
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« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2012, 02:30:43 PM »

Ok, since you refuse to see any other aspect than what you read about on the internet, I'm out. And for shits and giggles I'll probably delete your retardedness. Cheesy
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« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2012, 02:32:04 PM »

The great thing about asking stupid questions is that some times i get intelligent answers
You have not explained what the angle of force is nor have you explained what you meant by "double or triple"
I can see by some of your replies here that you are impatient with being questioned but I also notice how quick you are to badmouth those who question you.

Im sorry, let me try again.

The angle of force is the position in which you hold isometrically contracted the muscle, like the 90 squat holds, the angle of force is the 90.

Also, doubles and triples are the execution of a movement with 2RM or 3RM for that given exercise, like doing 2 C&J's reps, its not common in bodybuilding.
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« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2012, 02:33:08 PM »

Ok, since you refuse to see any other aspect than what you read about on the internet, I'm out. And for shits and giggles I'll probably delete your retardedness. Cheesy

Please, go ahead and do so...I dont think I can say I care, just dont delete my posts in G&O board.

Also, and just to assure the deletion of my posts, I get the hint you a bit mad a noname is schooling you in basic exercise science.
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« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2012, 02:40:23 PM »

Lmfao, you know jack shit except what you've read, and it doesn't apply in the real world.

Take your 90deg "squat hold"...you honestly believe that you will only gain strength in the 90deg position...hahaa!!

I got a meeting real quick but I'm sure you'll respond with some more crap you read ion the internet. Lol
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« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2012, 02:42:32 PM »

Lmfao, you know jack shit except what you've read, and it doesn't apply in the real world.

Take your 90deg "squat hold"...you honestly believe that you will only gain strength in the 90deg position...hahaa!!

I got a meeting real quick but I'm sure you'll respond with some more crap you read ion the internet. Lol

More answers with no real content? Just delete my posts already...


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« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2012, 02:44:05 PM »

Im sorry, let me try again.

The angle of force is the position in which you hold isometrically contracted the muscle, like the 90 squat holds, the angle of force is the 90.

Also, doubles and triples are the execution of a movement with 2RM or 3RM for that given exercise, like doing 2 C&J's reps, its not common in bodybuilding.

Your answer assumes the recipient knows what is in your mind. Perhaps you should say what you wrote aloud to youself.
Despite studying structural engineering and years of lifting I find your lanuage dense and inpenetrable. I will try and not bother you again
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« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2012, 02:47:39 PM »

BBC...maybe you should check BBing.com for an idiot to English translator?? Cheesy
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« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2012, 02:50:21 PM »

Your answer assumes the recipient knows what is in your mind. Perhaps you should say what you wrote aloud to youself.
Despite studying structural engineering and years of lifting I find your lanuage dense and inpenetrable. I will try and not bother you again

Well, you could just ask or ignore, I have no problem in answering the best I can as english is not my first language.  You too seem a bit criptic in your own style. 


 
BBC...maybe you should check BBing.com for an idiot to English translator?? Cheesy

Hard pwning brah!
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« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2012, 02:53:02 PM »

"English is not my first language"...

I can see now why you don't understand the point others are trying to get across to you.

What is your first language?
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« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2012, 02:56:30 PM »

"English is not my first language"...

I can see now why you don't understand the point others are trying to get across to you.

What is your first language?
Spanish

But yeah, you are right, I am wrong, happy? This is very stupid to go on. Train as you wish.  And I like how you make it seem like Im wrong because of language barriers when you post with no content at all...
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